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View Full Version : HEAVY MUSCLE RADIO: Mon (06/01/09) 7pm EST-Mike Torchia & "Random Knight"!



Jeff The Producer
06-01-2009, 04:49 PM
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Mike Torchia is a former Teenage Mr. America and Mr. California and is also a well known fitness celebrity. He's trained with Arnold Schwarzenegger and has some great stories about the bodybuilders of the past. So what exactly is his beef with the Nintendo WII video game console? Find out tonight with Dave and John!

Author of the book "Illegally Thin", 'Random Knight' claims that a certain drug is the greatest fat loss substance known to man. Is it true? Why is it illegal? He tells all, only on Heavy Muscle Radio!

HEAVY MUSCLE RADIO airs on Monday, June 1st, 2009 at 7 PM EST/4 PM PST. Just go to RXMUSCLE.com and click on the HEAVY MUSCLE RADIO page of the website or simply click on the following link to join the party:

http://www.rxmuscle.com/hmr-radio-show.html

On-Demand Replays and Podcasts will be available 24/7 a few hours after the show for your convenience.

Jeff The Producer
06-01-2009, 07:08 PM
The show is now posted! Click here to listen and download. (http://www.rxmuscle.com/hmr-radio-show.html)

KRISSY CHIN
06-01-2009, 07:19 PM
Thanks Jeff!!!!!

Krissyxo

"Rodz"
06-01-2009, 07:28 PM
and listening, sweet

anthony1992
06-01-2009, 08:01 PM
great, just downloaded it

Nick Paladino
06-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Damn Jeff your fast! lol

Nick Paladino
06-01-2009, 08:55 PM
HAHA I didn't know Derek was on the show! I AM A STAR! lol Thanks Dave!

Biggie973
06-01-2009, 10:41 PM
Jeff is the man & I can't wait to hear this show

huge285
06-01-2009, 11:35 PM
I thought it was a very informative show! And TORCHIA told a great ARNOLD STORY!

huge285
06-01-2009, 11:39 PM
TORCHIA was a good bodybuilder back in the day!

davidyes
06-01-2009, 11:53 PM
Dave,
I'm glad you corrected Random's pronunciation of "dinitrophenol". It was a bit bothersome for me as well.

huge285
06-02-2009, 01:43 AM
Dave,
I'm glad you corrected Random's pronunciation of "dinitrophenol". It was a bit bothersome for me as well.

I'm a stickler for that!

AFTazz06
06-02-2009, 08:53 AM
I thought it was a very informative show! And TORCHIA told a great ARNOLD STORY!


I agree pretty freakin hilerious! Was pretty shocked at how close he was to Arnold back then.

MichaelWayne
06-02-2009, 09:48 AM
All the shows are 10s, but this one was an 11. I hope Torchia becomes a regular guest, that guy is pretty interesting.

John Romano
06-02-2009, 09:49 AM
Dave,
I'm glad you corrected Random's pronunciation of "dinitrophenol". It was a bit bothersome for me as well.

Yeh, it was like he thought the right way was evil sounding so he tried to clean it up with a creative delivery. Like saying "test-o/sterone"

diego-b
06-02-2009, 11:55 AM
I'll get working on those beanies since Bobby Smalls has dropped the ball once again LOL. The show was great. Hey DA (JEFF) WTF like WTF. Dude you have to have you're own show and just do everyone's voice.

mrmeotz
06-02-2009, 02:00 PM
jeff is so fuckin funny :-)

AVBG
06-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Mike Torchia was by far and away the best guest you guys had ever interviewed (on either incarnation of your radio show - md/rx). Dave/John this guy was brilliant if I were you I'd use this episode to sell advertising, it had it all.

hrd
06-02-2009, 10:14 PM
jeff is so fuckin funny :-)
Yes he is funny but in a less is more kind of way.

huge285
06-03-2009, 12:03 AM
Mike Torchia was by far and away the best guest you guys had ever interviewed (on either incarnation of your radio show - md/rx). Dave/John this guy was brilliant if I were you I'd use this episode to sell advertising, it had it all.

Thanks! He was an excellent guest!

mrmeotz
06-03-2009, 01:23 AM
do you know what week levrone is coming on the show?

jacshelb
06-03-2009, 01:44 AM
Wow, everyone is talking about Torchia, who was very cool, but was I the only one blown away by the info on DNP?! Damn. I'm not saying I'm going to run out and buy some. But, that guy opened my eyes to a lot of info about it I never knew. Sounds like it may be a book worth buying.

ROTFLMAO
06-03-2009, 02:29 AM
TORCHIA would be good to have back on again at a later point.

huge285
06-03-2009, 03:30 AM
We'll get him back!

LANCE ADAM
06-03-2009, 04:15 AM
YO DAVE, i did 113 pushups in a minute, i didnt kno i was close to the world record... lol. tell him to fly me out and ill do 130 in a minute lol

GREAT SHOW!

Conciliator
06-03-2009, 04:52 AM
"Random Knight" demonstrated that he has a fairly poor understanding of DNP. I was shocked to hear that he wrote a book on it. Here are several things that stood out to me:

1. He doesn't even know how to pronounce it.

2. He's wrong to say "it's not an easy drug to overdose on." He incorrectly states "The multiple of the minimum effective dose it becomes fatal at is 30x." The lethal dose in humans is somewhere between 1000mg and 3000mg, yet normal doses are in the range of 200-600mg/day. It's well established that DNP has a low "therapeutic index". It's not so small that DNP can't be used in a manner that avoids overdose, but relative to other drugs, it definitely is low.

3. There were not only 6 deaths in the 1930's. Horner's extensive report (which he even mentioned) referenced 9 case reports of death.

4. You do not get hot from DNP (uncoupling) for the same reason you get hot from exercise (muscle contraction). Although it is similar, DNP does not work "exactly like exercise."

5. The "conspiracy theory" is nonsense when you consider that there were over a hundred case reports of cataracts in the 1930's, including cases in the larger clinical studies. The fact that he completely ignores the risk of cataracts is unbelievable. As Horner says "The number of persons who were affected - estimated at more than 164 - probably exceeds the number of cataracts reported from any single toxic epidemic with the possible exception of that of ergot poisoning."

6. It doesn't appear that he understands the mechanism of action, how DNP uncouples oxidation from phosphorylation, and what that means.

7. He's incorrect to say that uncoupling "is pretty much the only thing DNP does to the body. It doesn't really react in any other way; it doesn't affect the endocrine system, it doesn't affect anything that I can tell." For example, DNP is known to occupy thyroid binding proteins and decrease serum thyroid levels (although thyroid function should persist). Also, one of DNP's metabolites (2-amino-p-quinonimine) is likely responsible for causing cataracts in those who are susceptible.

8. DNP does not increase free radical production. He's completely unaware of the large body of evidence showing that DNP reduces the production of mitochondrial oxidative stress. Although respiration and oxidation are increased, the mechanism of action (uncoupling) reduces the mitochondrial membrane potential, which has been shown repeatedly (in vitro and in vivo) to decrease oxidative stress and increases mitochondrial stability. There's not just the recent study in mice showing extension of life span, but also two older studies in drosophila and saccharomyces cerevisiae showing the same thing.

9. Let's hope that "Random Knight" doesn't get on any TV shows. If he's the poster boy for DNP, there's not much hope if he's confronted with someone who's better informed (e.g. about cataracts).

10. Wrt dosing protocol, it's misleading to talk about "an allergic side reaction" as the "only thing they found" in the early research. It was certainly the most common, but there are many other known side effects, including cataracts, agranulocytosis, neuritis, severe hives, loss of taste, edema, etc.

11. He's foolish to repeat the myth that DNP was used to ignite "dynamite". First, DNP wasn't used as an ignitor. Rather, it was used in synergistic mixtures with trinitrophenol and TNT. The French are the most well known for using DNP for this purpose during WWI. They commonly used mixtures of 40% DNP and 60% TNP. Second, these explosives had nothing to do with dynamite. They were TNP/TNT based.

12. He incorrectly states that "danger is entirely related to dose dependancy, something that clinicians point out." It was specifically stated in Horner's extensive review that "Neither the length of treatment nor the total dosage seemed to have any bearing upon the occurrence of these cataracts." Random says "clinician" way too often.


I'm usually the one defending DNP. I've spent hundreds of hours researching it and have posted about it on several forums. I think it's an incredible substance. However, Random Knight just goes way too far. He talks about the "misinformation" surrounding DNP, yet he just adds to it. He portrays DNP as mucn safer than it actually is. To completely ignore the risk of cataracts is extremely discrediting, not to mention everything else above. I think he should have done a lot more research before writing a book and going on a radio show about it.

Conciliator
06-03-2009, 05:03 AM
BTW, if anyone would like references for anything I've said, I'd be glad to post them.

Aaron Singerman
06-03-2009, 05:51 AM
BTW, if anyone would like references for anything I've said, I'd be glad to post them.

I've got to agree.... I won't be buying that book!

badfish51581
06-03-2009, 02:59 PM
BTW, if anyone would like references for anything I've said, I'd be glad to post them.

Aren't you writing a book about it as well?

LANCE SPENCER
06-03-2009, 03:53 PM
dave would u consider getting john brown as a guest??i really wanna know why he considers gh to be bad for us plus hes diet plan for tha mega training program he has being preaching ,plus all the stories from back in the day,thanks for last weeks show it was great regards to u and your team

JayKurk
06-03-2009, 04:41 PM
so the Random Knight may have been misforming about the saftey of DNP. DO you guys think its so bad that you need to stay away from it? John Romano said he got shredded while dieting he used 300 mgs per day divied in two dosages.He said he will use it again. For a 200lb+ bodybuilder do you think using 100-200 mgs per day while dieting will be a great way to burn extra fat and maintain muscle without too much helth risk?? Would using this dosage for5-6 weeeks 2x per year lead to catarcts??

This sounds tempting, at low dosage,but i wouldnt want to die or go blind!! geez

davidyes
06-03-2009, 09:22 PM
Conciliator,
Your response was my exact thought. Thanks for the post.

Conciliator
06-03-2009, 11:59 PM
Aren't you writing a book about it as well?I started writing a book on DNP's use as a dieting aid back in 2006 after Lyle McDonald encouraged me to put down what I know on paper. Since then, it's been a slow work in progress. I haven't worked on it in over a year, but I plan to resume writing pretty soon. It's far from done and even I feel like I have lot more research to do. There are a lot of obscure references I still need to look up.

Conciliator
06-04-2009, 12:52 AM
so the Random Knight may have been misforming about the saftey of DNP. DO you guys think its so bad that you need to stay away from it?There are definitely safe protocols for dosing DNP that make the risk of overdose negligible. However, regardless of how intelligently you dose it, there is still the risk of cataracts, with an estimated incidence of between 1 in 100 and 1 in a 1000 DNP users. It's a personal question as to whether that risk is worth it or not. You should also keep in mind that there are risks for other very rare side effects, like agranulocytosis, neuritis, or severe hives.

For a 200lb+ bodybuilder do you think using 100-200 mgs per day while dieting will be a great way to burn extra fat and maintain muscle without too much helth risk??Based on one of the original studies on DNP, 200mg/day of the powder increases metabolic rate by approximately 30% in the average person. For a 200 lb bodybuilder who has a 3000 cal/day metabolism, that equates to 600 cal/day or 1.2 lbs of fat loss per week (in addition to what you'll lose from dietary restriction). The available research on DNP also suggests that it's protein sparing (or at least not overtly catabolic). In light of these things, I'd answer your question with a "yes."

Would using this dosage for 5-6 weeeks 2x per year lead to catarcts??It's not so much a question of the dosage or frequency of use, but whether or not you have a genetic susceptibility to DNP cataracts. If you do, you could develop cataracts during your first cycle. If you don't, then you'll probably never develop cataracts from DNP. Of every 1000 people who take DNP, on average, between 1 and 10 are at risk.

jacshelb
06-04-2009, 02:22 AM
Conciliator,

Thanks very much for that info. I think I'd buy your book! I kind of got that sense that Random was downplaying the risks a bit. But, you've put it into words. I'm still glad to have heard his interview and glad that you've added your info on this thread.

Maybe it'd be a good idea to get at least a small segment with you on HMR to somewhat counterpoint some of the things Random pointed out about DNP.

All the best,


Jacob

huge285
06-04-2009, 03:54 AM
I feel DNP can be dangerous and it's too easily misused; however, I like the method it uses to burn fat (uncoupling)!

jacshelb
06-04-2009, 01:01 PM
So, with uncoupling, does that mean that it is a more "permanent" fat loss, i.e. rendering the cell useless and unable to re-absorb nutrients and water again? Or, is it just another way of depleting the cell, ala dieting?

huge285
06-04-2009, 01:35 PM
it's not permanent! It's just a temporary wasting of energy!

fitQuest
06-04-2009, 02:52 PM
it's not permanent! It's just a temporary wasting of energy!

Dave, what's the difference between the fat loss supplement you make with that Usnic acid compared to DNP in terms of effectiveness?

I've wanted to try Usnic acid for some time now, but it scares me. At the moment, I'm taking an EC stack, but I can't stand the way Ephedrine gives me cotton mouth!

jacshelb
06-04-2009, 03:18 PM
Dave, what's the difference between the fat loss supplement you make with that Usnic acid compared to DNP in terms of effectiveness?

I've wanted to try Usnic acid for some time now, but it scares me. At the moment, I'm taking an EC stack, but I can't stand the way Ephedrine gives me cotton mouth!

That's a good question. Also, on the eca thing, I've been noticing that- the parched feeling. Am I right in guessing that eca has a cumulative dehydrating effect? I seem to be flattened out quite a bit when using it.

Dave, thanks for the answer on the DNP.

sam the man
06-05-2009, 07:44 AM
humm, its getting interesting

DannyG
06-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Yeah it is good stuff on this thread.

huge285
06-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Dave, what's the difference between the fat loss supplement you make with that Usnic acid compared to DNP in terms of effectiveness?

I've wanted to try Usnic acid for some time now, but it scares me. At the moment, I'm taking an EC stack, but I can't stand the way Ephedrine gives me cotton mouth!

USNIC ACID is a naturally occurring lichen that exhibits similar uncoupling effects similar to DNP. It's a lot safer because you can't overdose on the stuff. The LD-50 (lethal dose) is 1000x lower than the effective dose.

Conciliator
06-07-2009, 04:42 PM
USNIC ACID is a naturally occurring lichen that exhibits similar uncoupling effects similar to DNP. It's a lot safer because you can't overdose on the stuff. The LD-50 (lethal dose) is 1000x lower than the effective dose.Overdosing is just one consideration. DNP is a pure uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation, but usnic acid is also an inhibitor, which is not good at all. Uncoupling has several beneficial effects, including a reduction in mitochondrial free radical formation, improved mitochondrial stability, and protection in several models of cell injury. In contrast, inhibition from usnic acid is cytotoxic. In that regard, it's similar to other inhibitors of oxidative phosphorylation (e.g. cyanide). It increases free radical production, induces oxdiative stress, depletes glutathione and is quite toxic to the liver. DNP doesn't share this effect because it doesn't inhibit oxidative phosphorylation, it only uncouples it.

DNP is clearly the more pure uncoupler. The fact that when you overdose on it you suffer from hyperthermia goes to show that the uncoupling effect is primary. That's both a strength (in therapeutic doses) and a weakness (in overdose). In contrast, a large enough dose of usnic acid will damage your liver from oxidative stress. You probably won't die from hyperthermia, but liver failure. Not surprisingly, there are many case reports of liver damage, several reports of liver failure necessitating liver transplants, and even death. As we know, there are also several case reports of death from DNP overdose. In the 1930's, when an estimated 500,000 people took DNP, there were 3 case reports of overdose.

Personally, I'd much rather take the substance that is a more pure uncoupler and that doesn't have the cytotoxic and hepatotoxic effects of inhibited mitochondrial function. With a modicum of care, the risk of overdosing on DNP is negligible. There is still the risk of a genetic predisposition for cataracts, but that could be weighed aginst the risk of liver damage from usnic acid.

metalheaddoc
06-10-2009, 09:56 PM
Kudos to Conciliator on his excellent post above. I had similar concerns regarding Random's incomplete knowledge of his subject. I was getting pissed with the interview because I was shooting holes in his arguments. Conciliator caught the same errors and then some.

I immediately tune out any argument that consists of "I have secret/hidden knowledge of Substance/Machine X, that would lead to the complete destruction of Industry Y." This is not a persuasive argument. It is used to bolster weak logic.

metalheaddoc \m/

Minime
09-15-2009, 10:31 AM
http://forum.illegallythin.com/user/Discussions.aspx

this is a Randoms Forum
He has people believing that if they take
DNP for a week they will loose 10 lbs, or so it seems.
Reading his forum it looks like someone is going to end up sick and give another black eye to DNP usage..