Clen and Benadryl?

[tank315]

Hey guys,
Just read about Benadryl making Clen last longer. What's up with that? Is this true or what:confused:

Grow like a Weed!

[GetLean]

Benadryl has been used by people because it supposedly "cleans" your receptors, bringing them back to virgin like state, so by last longer I would just think that it would make so the full effect last longer,instead of fading.

[Swiper]

I don't think it's true. you're better off using ketotifen.

[TaylorB]

benadryl helps the same as ketotifen fumarate...or at least, they work in the same manner. helps stop beta adrenoceptor downregulation.... which is to say... it helps clen and ephedrine keep working

[tank315]

Thx guys. I like Clen @ around 80 mcg daily spread out. This amount is good for me while using Tren.

Grow Like A Weed!

[BigJD69]

Yup what allstar and taylorb said!!!

[Swiper]

benadryl in conjunction with clen, there is no scientific proof it works, that i have seen, but i do know with clen & ketotifen there is solid proof it keeps receptors upgraded. if some does have scientific proof benadryl keeps receptors upgraded while on clen, i would like to see this. thanks in advance.

[TaylorB]

benadryl in conjunction with clen, there is no scientific proof it works, that i have seen, but i do know with clen & ketotifen there is solid proof it keeps receptors upgraded. if some does have scientific proof benadryl keeps receptors upgraded while on clen, i would like to see this. thanks in advance.


Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

Reference:

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J"

[Swiper]

Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

Reference:

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J"


I've seen this or something similar to it. I know they're similar, but i still have yet to find a study with clen and Benadryl. there are many studies done with ketotifen and clen, but not clen and Benadryl.

[TaylorB]

if you do a study with chicken, do you really need a study with beef as well? in order to know the amino acids in beef can be used for growth just like the amino acids in chicken?

[Swiper]

if you do a study with chicken, do you really need a study with beef as well? in order to know the amino acids in beef can be used for growth just like the amino acids in chicken?

LOL

I'm just trying to find a study that includes clen with benadryl. looks like there is no such study.

[chucksm00th]

benedryl and ketotifen are supposed to help, however Dave has stated numerous times on the other board both are a waste of money. I would bet hes tried them if you asked him

[TaylorB]

LOL

I'm just trying to find a study that includes clen with benadryl. looks like there is no such study.
i hear ya. ive tried both and they work the same , slightly help keep fat loss running but not too much of a noticeable difference.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

benedryl and ketotifen are supposed to help, however Dave has stated numerous times on the other board both are a waste of money. I would bet hes tried them if you asked him


i tried this argument and got chewd. im pretty sure someone will come after me again for this post. clen works fine . and can be used up to 16 weeks. i do and others that i train do. and it still works. and yes this is dave recommendations.

[tank315]

I'll get slammed for this but what's the amount dave recommends if it for 16 weeks. I feel good at around 80 mcgs daily. Tried 110mcg but cramps got too bad and the jitters started.

Grow Like A Weed!

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

I'll get slammed for this but what's the amount dave recommends if it for 16 weeks. I feel good at around 80 mcgs daily. Tried 110mcg but cramps got too bad and the jitters started.

Grow Like A Weed!

He recommends that you can work up to 120mcg. but ramp up over time. I would assume that if 80mcg good for you. then stick with it. just make sure to take taurine and drink more water if not already doing so.

[Mr. Shoulders]

Damn...I run clen @ 200mcgs for 2 weeks at a time

[chucksm00th]

He recommends that you can work up to 120mcg. but ramp up over time. I would assume that if 80mcg good for you. then stick with it. just make sure to take taurine and drink more water if not already doing so.


I understand water for hydration, but whats with the Taurine?? i never heard that. benefits?? does it eliminate sides/jitters or anythign?

thanks

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

I understand water for hydration, but whats with the Taurine?? i never heard that. benefits?? does it eliminate sides/jitters or anythign?

thanks

Okay first i will tell you that studies show that clen kills heart cells in rats. Their are no studies that show this happens to humans ; However studies do show that their is a benefit when taking taurine. here is one such study below; continue reading as i will show why its may be a good idea to take taurine while taking clen anyways. I mean why risk it and why not get the best benefits.

Modulation of Ca2+ and Na+ transport by taurine in heart and vascular smooth mus




Using the whole-cell voltage clamp technique, taurine was found to affect different types of various ionic currents including T and L-type Ca2+ currents, slow Na+ and fast Na+ currents as well as the delayed outward K+ current. Also, in normal situations, taurine had no effect on the Na(+)-Ca2+ exchange current. The effect of taurine on the different types of ionic currents appears to depend on [Ca2+]o and [Ca2+]i and may also vary according to the tissue or cell type studied. Using standard Ca2+ imaging techniques, short-term exposure (10 to 20 min) of single heart cells and aortic vascular smooth muscle cells was found to increase total intracellular free Ca2+ in a dose-dependent manner. However, using 3-dimensional Ca2+ and Na+ imaging techniques, long-term exposure of heart and vascular smooth muscle cells to taurine was found to decrease both nuclear and cytosolic Ca2+ without significantly changing either nuclear or cytosolic Na+ levels. Long-term exposure to taurine was found to prevent cytosolic and nuclear increases of Ca2+ induced by permanent depolarization of heart cells with high [K+]o. This preventive effect of taurine on nuclear Ca2+ overload was associated with an increase of both cytosolic and nuclear free Na+. Thus, the effect of long-term exposure to taurine on intranuclear Ca2+ overload in heart cells seems to be mediated via stimulation of sarcolemma and nuclear Ca2+ outflow through the Na(+)-Ca2+ exchanger.




What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case. Although this has not been proven and others have reported that they still get the benefit of using clen while on a ketonic diet.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Clenbuterol use

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab every 2-weeks until the fat burning effect taper off and never exceed 120mcg. U.R

[Lee Penman]

Hey guys,
Just read about Benadryl making Clen last longer. What's up with that? Is this true or what:confused:

Grow like a Weed!
I think the makers of Benedryl also make Clen on the side and it was all part of a wicked marketing ploy (lol!) Seriously though, apart from making you sleepy (yes, you take it at night but you still wake up groggy!) Benedryl offers no benefits in my opinion. The use of small amounts of T3 may help keep receptors open and the clen stops the catabolic effects of the T3. Better bang for the synergistic buck!

[RazorRipped]

I think the makers of Benedryl also make Clen on the side and it was all part of a wicked marketing ploy (lol!) !

Actually it's a bunch of bullshit posted by Anthony Roberts with NO scientific backing whatsoever.

[RazorRipped]

Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

Reference:

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J"

Nice copy/paste from Anthony Roberts. Proves Nothing.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

The use of small amounts of T3 may help keep receptors open and the clen stops the catabolic effects of the T3. Better bang for the synergistic buck!


This is true; as i have stated before. Matbe on a small scale. I still dont suggest the use of clen and t-3 alone without adding some test to the mix just so that you get a more pronounced effect; And these should be employed when dieting.

[chucksm00th]

Okay first i will tell you that studies show that clen kills heart cells in rats. Their are no studies that show this happens to humans ; However studies do show that their is a benefit when taking taurine. here is one such study below; continue reading as i will show why its may be a good idea to take taurine while taking clen anyways. I mean why risk it and why not get the best benefits.

Modulation of Ca2+ and Na+ transport by taurine in heart and vascular smooth mus




Using the whole-cell voltage clamp technique, taurine was found to affect different types of various ionic currents including T and L-type Ca2+ currents, slow Na+ and fast Na+ currents as well as the delayed outward K+ current. Also, in normal situations, taurine had no effect on the Na(+)-Ca2+ exchange current. The effect of taurine on the different types of ionic currents appears to depend on [Ca2+]o and [Ca2+]i and may also vary according to the tissue or cell type studied. Using standard Ca2+ imaging techniques, short-term exposure (10 to 20 min) of single heart cells and aortic vascular smooth muscle cells was found to increase total intracellular free Ca2+ in a dose-dependent manner. However, using 3-dimensional Ca2+ and Na+ imaging techniques, long-term exposure of heart and vascular smooth muscle cells to taurine was found to decrease both nuclear and cytosolic Ca2+ without significantly changing either nuclear or cytosolic Na+ levels. Long-term exposure to taurine was found to prevent cytosolic and nuclear increases of Ca2+ induced by permanent depolarization of heart cells with high [K+]o. This preventive effect of taurine on nuclear Ca2+ overload was associated with an increase of both cytosolic and nuclear free Na+. Thus, the effect of long-term exposure to taurine on intranuclear Ca2+ overload in heart cells seems to be mediated via stimulation of sarcolemma and nuclear Ca2+ outflow through the Na(+)-Ca2+ exchanger.




What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case. Although this has not been proven and others have reported that they still get the benefit of using clen while on a ketonic diet.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Clenbuterol use

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab every 2-weeks until the fat burning effect taper off and never exceed 120mcg. U.R


Thanks
:D

[Swiper]

Benedryl offers no benefits in my opinion.

i agree. i know people who have tried both benadryl and ketotifen, they all say benadryl sucks and they'll never use it again. ketotifen is the way to go.