Epic battle of 308's

[weightgain4000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lfFuRpyeU

[BigJD69]

Squatting was barely parallel forget about the benching that's a joke with those shirts on!!!

[weightgain4000]

Squatting was barely parallel forget about the benching that's a joke with those shirts on!!!

Squats looked fine to me. What's wrong with bench shirts? Matt and Chuck are still damn strong without the shirts.

[BK]

Squatting was barely parallel forget about the benching that's a joke with those shirts on!!!
You ever bench in a shirt? You sound like you know what you are talking about.;)

[BigJD69]

Yes I used to Powerlift back in the day, just before the denim shirts became popular. My ass would hit the ground when squatting!!!! I have heard of a lot of these guys benching 800-1000lbs, that cant even do 500 without a shirt on!!!

[BK]

Yes I used to Powerlift back in the day, just before the denim shirts became popular. My ass would hit the ground when squatting!!!! I have heard of a lot of these guys benching 800-1000lbs, that cant even do 500 without a shirt on!!!
If these individuals are putting up 800 lbs then they are easily putting up 500 lbs raw. There are not a whole lot of people benching over 800 lbs anyway. Scott Mendelson and Ryan Kennelly can raw bench 700+ and both shirt bench 1000+. Bench shirts are'nt "jokes." One has to put as much effort in training in a shirt as they would without it. There is a huge misconception about shirts and suits. Most people think that you can put on a shirt and automatically go from a 300 lb bench to a 500 lb bench overnight. If you have worn a shirt then you can obviously say that this is not th e case
As far as your ass hitting the ground during squatting, thats your problem. Parrallel is legal adn those squats on the video are easily parrallel.

[BigJD69]

No I dont have any problems just opinions and 28yrs experience behind me

[realmccoy]

Awesome lifts

[billy mimnaugh]

No I dont have any problems just opinions and 28yrs experience behind me


Well,Ive got over 20 years of expieriance behind me,and thats 20 years of competing,and bench shirts are not a joke.Whats a joke is guys trying to justify their lack of strength by knocking the choices of how others compete.There is a simple solution for you guys that are 'THE REAL STRONG GUYS".Pop on a shirt,go in a meet and humiliate these weaklings.If your so freaking strong and shirt benching is a joke,you wouls only have to do it once,kill all those pretenders and prove your point.Somehow I doubt that will EVER happen.

[billy mimnaugh]

Another funny thing I always see is the "I squat ass to heels".Who freaking cares.There are no extra points for squatting a certain depth below paralell,its just BREAK!!!NO ONE CARES IF YOUR ASS TO HEELS!!!

[robert da strongman]

atg only is worthwhile in oly lifts...

[BigJD69]

Question??? How many Lbs. does a bench shirt add to the powerlifter's bench press???

[tjoe]

Question??? How many Lbs. does a bench shirt add to the powerlifter's bench press???Its no set amount. It would be different for every lifter with many variables...
what type of shirt?
what weakness the lifter has
what strength the lifter has
how well he learns the equipment.

[BigJD69]

Would 100-200 lbs be a safe estimate?

[tjoe]

... for a guy that benches 200 raw... nope.
for a guy that benches 700-800... sure. BUT that guy can still do 7ish raw!!
I would guess there are guys out there that can get 300 out of it but that is probably the exception more than the rule.

[BigJD69]

The way I think of maxing out any lift including the bench press is if you can do double your weight, that's pretty good. So if a 200lb guy can bench 400 raw that's not bad IMO. Now you take that same 200lb guy and put a bench shirt on him maybe he can do 500, IMO that's not impressive to me! Take a 300lb guy that can press 600, put a shirt on him and maybe he can do over 700 or 800, he's not doing the weight the shirt is!!!

[billy mimnaugh]

The way I think of maxing out any lift including the bench press is if you can do double your weight, that's pretty good. So if a 200lb guy can bench 400 raw that's not bad IMO. Now you take that same 200lb guy and put a bench shirt on him maybe he can do 500, IMO that's not impressive to me! Take a 300lb guy that can press 600, put a shirt on him and maybe he can do over 700 or 800, he's not doing the weight the shirt is!!!


Again,I dont know what your max is,but just put a good shirt on and see how much you get out of it.When the bar slams you in the face and knocks your teeth out because your not strong enough to handle a shirt,get back to us.You dont have a clue of how difficult mastering a shirt is.By the way,I raw benched 500 in a meet and did 585 in my shirt at the same meet.Does that seem like 100s of pounds.Where is my huge carryover?Could it be that it takes a certain kind of strength to bench in a shirt.

[Hillgiant]

Again,I dont know what your max is,but just put a good shirt on and see how much you get out of it.When the bar slams you in the face and knocks your teeth out because your not strong enough to handle a shirt,get back to us.You dont have a clue of how difficult mastering a shirt is.By the way,I raw benched 500 in a meet and did 585 in my shirt at the same meet.Does that seem like 100s of pounds.Where is my huge carryover?Could it be that it takes a certain kind of strength to bench in a shirt.
Well said Billy. I was hoping to not see this kind of negativity on this site. For having 28 years experience in Powerlifting, I'm surprised he didn't know more about shirted benching.

[greuceanu]

Another funny thing I always see is the "I squat ass to heels".Who freaking cares.There are no extra points for squatting a certain depth below paralell,its just BREAK!!!NO ONE CARES IF YOUR ASS TO HEELS!!!

Those squats were close, but they didn't break parallel.



Question??? How many Lbs. does a bench shirt add to the powerlifter's bench press???

Depends on the shirt, lifter's skill and bodyweight.Between 50-400lbs. A shirt takes years to master, it's not easy. Shirted benching is not a joke, but it's pretty much a different sport.

It has alot to do with technique and strong triceps, not so much strong pectorals since the shirt helps the bottom alot.

[BigJD69]

As I said earlier I used to Powerlift and did quite a few bench only meets. I know what it is like to wear a bench shirt. There is no need for me to put a shirt on and as you say "slam me in the face and break my teeth" LOL Obviously you haven't MASTERED the shirt if you only added 85lbs to your bench. Greuceanu, THANKS for pointing out that those squats were close but didn't break parallel, you sound like you know what you are talking about!!! If it's HARDER to bench with a shirt on why wear it then???

[greuceanu]

Those squats are legal in their fed though.That's the reason why i always go with IPA standards, they are not debatable.People say they wear shirts because of increased protection, but the real reason is because they can brag about much higher numbers.

[tjoe]

As I said earlier I used to Powerlift and did quite a few bench only meets. I know what it is like to wear a bench shirt. There is no need for me to put a shirt on and as you say "slam me in the face and break my teeth" LOL Obviously you haven't MASTERED the shirt if you only added 85lbs to your bench. Greuceanu, THANKS for pointing out that those squats were close but didn't break parallel, you sound like you know what you are talking about!!! If it's HARDER to bench with a shirt on why wear it then???I wouldn't say it's "harder", just different. It's like trying to compare racing gocarts and Nascar. In both, the idea is to move around the track as quickly as possible (or move the bar from A to B), BUT they are 2 completely different events.

The facts:
Everyone has different opinions and that is fine.
So far there have been no "personal attacks"... I would like to keep it that way please.
Other than that... Keep on posting!! :D

[BigJD69]

Tjoe I disagree there was a "personal attack"!!! I didn't make this personal and dont plan on it. I Powerlifted and I know the advantages that a bench shirt gives the lifter, if someone disagrees with that fine, but they are WRONG!!! BillyMimnaugh added 85lbs to his bench? That's not an advantage??? Hillgiant I am not being NEGATIVE just adding my .2C to this open forumn!!

[greuceanu]

BillyMimnaugh added 85lbs to his bench? That's not an advantage???

It's not an advantage in a geared meet.He's actually at a disadvantage compared to others who get much more from their shirts.

Compared to raw benching,sure,it's a big advantage. Some guys get almost 60% more than their raw,as incredible as that sounds.

[tjoe]

Tjoe I disagree there was a "personal attack"!!! I didn't make this personal and dont plan on it. I Powerlifted and I know the advantages that a bench shirt gives the lifter, if someone disagrees with that fine, but they are WRONG!!! BillyMimnaugh added 85lbs to his bench? That's not an advantage??? Hillgiant I am not being NEGATIVE just adding my .2C to this open forumn!!uuhhh.... ?

anyway, Billy could be right in the fact that "some" people could think a shirt gives all kinds of advantages and could get hurt by just tossing one on and going for something stupid. as you know, shirts don't work like that.

he also did 500 raw and 585 shirted in the same meet. So to say he does not know what he is doing would be a bit inaccurate. There are different training styles for raw or shirted benching (as you know), so to bench in a meet raw, and then just toss on a shirt and get 85 pounds out of it is pretty good.

The personal attack comment was not directed at you... it was just a general statement. Both you and Billy are both very opinionated and feel strongly about the subject (or the thread would be over already). I think that is good as it creates more discussion.

I am not trying to "stir the pot" so to speak but i would be interested in your raw/shirted numbers.

As for myself, I got 410 raw and 375 in a shirt BUT I was working on a TON of cardio before the shirt meet when a guy talked me into doing it. Didn't really give myself time to learn it and it was a cheapo, single ply Inzer. I do have a dbl ply open back Inzer phenom that I would like to learn some day. But for now, strongman it is...

[billy mimnaugh]

Tjoe I disagree there was a "personal attack"!!! I didn't make this personal and dont plan on it. I Powerlifted and I know the advantages that a bench shirt gives the lifter, if someone disagrees with that fine, but they are WRONG!!! BillyMimnaugh added 85lbs to his bench? That's not an advantage??? Hillgiant I am not being NEGATIVE just adding my .2C to this open forumn!!


Heres the thing.Im not sure if it was 85lbs because the 500 was my opener.Im not sure what I could have hit that day with no shirt.However,CLEARLY it gives numbers,no doubt about it.I wonder though,how much is gained by knee wraps and a belt for the squat?Wrist wraps for the bench[I have one training partner that gets 25lbs out of wrist wraps because of bad wrists].

Do you know what I mean?Again,would I have benched 585 with no shirt?NO!!!!!However,Im just saying not everyone that puts one on gets huge carryovers.The guys that do have incredible lockout strength,great techinique,etc.I dont ,because I lay flat as a pancake,hate training in the shirt and dont work at it.

Lastly,there is only ONE reason to wear shirts,or wraps,or belts,or suits,briefs etc. and that is TO LIFT BIGGER NUMBERS!!!!!PERIOD!!!!NOT SAFETY,NOT DOING IT BECAUSE OTHERS DO IT,WE DO IT TO HIT INFLATED NUMBERS.At the end of the day though,if everyone wears it and its legal in your fed,the strongest guy still wins.

[robert da strongman]

disagreeing on whether one should use pl'ing gear or not is acceptable, and encouraged.
it is called discussion. but not accepting others opinions as such and then attacking is wrong...


so from here on out if you want to comment you MUST post up your numbers.
raw and geared or either. post what meet, when and where...

[greuceanu]

disagreeing on whether one should use pl'ing gear or not is acceptable, and encouraged.
it is called discussion. but not accepting others opinions as such and then attacking is wrong...


so from here on out if you want to comment you MUST post up your numbers.
raw and geared or either. post what meet, when and where...

This is ridiculous, what are you, a fucking nazi? Make a separate thread for that. What if i've never competed and don't take photos of myself training?

As long as the discussion is not filled with ad-hominem attacks, what's the problem? It's a discussion board,for Christ sakes.

[robert da strongman]

This is ridiculous, what are you, a fucking nazi? Make a separate thread for that. What if i've never competed and don't take photos of myself training?

As long as the discussion is not filled with ad-hominem attacks, what's the problem? It's a discussion board,for Christ sakes.

that is the problem
so many people claim to be what they arent...

what do you lift in the gym if you dont compete?
been around enough to see this continue into some stupid meltdowns and then we have to spend more time deleting threads and banning people. is that what you want?

and i take that nazi part as a personal attack...

[tjoe]

disagreeing on whether one should use pl'ing gear or not is acceptable, and encouraged.
it is called discussion. but not accepting others opinions as such and then attacking is wrong...I agree


so from here on out if you want to comment you MUST post up your numbers.
raw and geared or either. post what meet, when and where...I disagreealthough I would "like" to see some numbers, I don't think it should be required.

[robert da strongman]

aw cm'on...

waitaminute...stop discussing this shit here and do it in the proper thread...

but ya know what i challenge everyone to post up some comp numbers...but they arent required.

[greuceanu]

that is the problem
so many people claim to be what they arent...

what do you lift in the gym if you dont compete?
been around enough to see this continue into some stupid meltdowns and then we have to spend more time deleting threads and banning people. is that what you want?

and i take that nazi part as a personal attack...

If you want to see videos and such, make a separate thread in which everyone who posts is required to put up a video.
I've not claimed any numbers,btw, as i've decided not to do that unless i have a video to prove it.

It's not about me wanting to see meltdowns and bannings,it's about everyone being free to discuss any subject, as long as they keep a civil tone.

After all,i haven't seen you put up any videos from a legit powerlifting meet, so then you shouldn't comment on this thread.
If you don't want to be called a nazi,don't act like one.

That's the reason i stopped posted on MD, i don't like unwarranted censorship.

Oh yeah,one more thing:whether someone is benching 300 or 800, the validity of their opinion is not strictly proportional with what they are lifting. Are you saying that if i lift more than you,you'll take all i say for granted? come on...

[robert da strongman]

If you want to see videos and such, make a separate thread in which everyone who posts is required to put up a video.

I've not claimed any numbers,btw, as i've decided not to do that unless i have a video to prove it.

It's not about me wanting to see meltdowns and bannings,it's about everyone being free to discuss any subject, as long as they keep a civil tone.

After all,i haven't seen you put up any videos from a legit powerlifting meet, so then you shouldn't comment on this thread.

If you don't want to be called a nazi,don't act like one.

That's the reason i stopped posted on MD, i don't like unwarranted censorship.


thats my point i dont want to censor...so i figured we can all man up and post #'s
new threads started anyway.

[greuceanu]

thats my point i dont want to censor...so i figured we can all man up and post #'s
new threads started anyway.

I saw and that's fine,i agree with that. It's not about manning up, i don't want to make any unsubstantiated claims. If i'll ever have a video of myself lifting,i'll post it,with a blurred face;)

[robert da strongman]

I saw and that's fine,i agree with that. It's not about manning up, i don't want to make any unsubstantiated claims. If i'll ever have a video of myself lifting,i'll post it,with a blurred face;)

understood

[BigJD69]

Guys come on this is a discussion, maybe the problem is that we all don't know each other that well. I have been lifting weights since I have been 12yo I will be turning 40 in March. I Powerlifted and was a Competitive BBer. I got into Powerlifting to get stronger and bigger for my passion at that time which was Football. When my F-ball playing days were over I started to compete as a BBer. My HEAVY-LIFTING DAYS are way behind me. I have had 8 Ortho. Surgerys since 94 the last one I had was to Fuse my neck. So I wont be posting any videos of me lifting heavy cause I CANT LOL. My opinion is that these bench pressing numbers are inflated because of the shirts, it's NOT a Knock on the sport or anyone on this board, Just my OPINION. I was trained by an old school trainer and I am old school as far as training goes! I hope I didn't Insult anyone by my postings, if I did I am SORRY

[robert da strongman]

we all have our passion about the sport. i just want to keep it civil and not resort to fascist behavior.

should we have an intro thread?

[greuceanu]

we all have our passion about the sport. i just want to keep it civil and not resort to fascist behavior.

should we have an intro thread?

That might be a good idea.Maybe you can also start a 'Post your videos and photos' thread. I'd start it,but don't have any videos to post and i'd look like a clown.I'll post a photo of my leg later,just in case people think i'm some skinny 15yo.

[robert da strongman]

anyone second that?

[BigJD69]

If the guys involved in this post wanna introduce themselves like I did, they should feel free to do so here.

[robert da strongman]

If the guys involved in this post wanna introduce themselves like I did, they should feel free to do so here.

new thread started....lets hear it...

[billy mimnaugh]

Guys come on this is a discussion, maybe the problem is that we all don't know each other that well. I have been lifting weights since I have been 12yo I will be turning 40 in March. I Powerlifted and was a Competitive BBer. I got into Powerlifting to get stronger and bigger for my passion at that time which was Football. When my F-ball playing days were over I started to compete as a BBer. My HEAVY-LIFTING DAYS are way behind me. I have had 8 Ortho. Surgerys since 94 the last one I had was to Fuse my neck. So I wont be posting any videos of me lifting heavy cause I CANT LOL. My opinion is that these bench pressing numbers are inflated because of the shirts, it's NOT a Knock on the sport or anyone on this board, Just my OPINION. I was trained by an old school trainer and I am old school as far as training goes! I hope I didn't Insult anyone by my postings, if I did I am SORRY

Obviously they are inflated.Who cares?It still takes a strong man to hit big numbers.You dont just pop gear on and lift big weights.

I squat in a canvas squat suit and double ply briefs.I have hit 942.Are you disputing that Im not strong because I wear gear.Well,here is a video of me doing round back good mornings with ZERO gear.Tell me if you think it takes strength to squat with gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qE2lLZw4zE

Now,clearly the suit and briefs inflate my pounds,but can you question the fact that Im a strong man based on that video?

[BK]

You only receive any type of help from a shirt or squat and/or deadlift suit at the begining of the movement. Watch any heavy lift and you will no doubt see the lifter straining throughout the lift. No different then putting on a belt and knee wraps when going raw. those two items will give a spring at the bottom, which is an advantage to the lift.
I never question a lifter who can bench 650 or higher or squat 800 or higher. Hell holding that much weight in your hands or on your spine is a testament to their strength alone and the shirt or suit plays no role in this.

[greuceanu]

No different then putting on a belt and knee wraps when going raw.

I will disagree with you here.The belt gives no spring,it only helps to keep increased intra abdominal pressure and the spine in proper alignment.Theoretically,if you have strong enough abs, the belt would do nothing for you.

The knee wraps part is more debatable, but here's my opinion.They do give a little spring depending of what they're made and how tight, but all your muscles are working to the fullest, they only influence the knee extension, which is not that hard to begin with.

To use a heavy suit to the most of it's ability, lifters have to go very wide stance so the material is stretched and the spring is increased. I've seen so many lifters struggling to make depth because the material needs huge amounts of weight to stretch at the bottom. And when they come up they don't struggle to the max at the bottom of the lift, sometimes the bottom looks real easy.This tells me that they hip muscles don't work to their fullest in bottom position,which makes for a different lift.

[BK]

I will disagree with you here.The belt gives no spring,it only helps to keep increased intra abdominal pressure and the spine in proper alignment.Theoretically,if you have strong enough abs, the belt would do nothing for you.

The knee wraps part is more debatable, but here's my opinion.They do give a little spring depending of what they're made and how tight, but all your muscles are working to the fullest, they only influence the knee extension, which is not that hard to begin with.

To use a heavy suit to the most of it's ability, lifters have to go very wide stance so the material is stretched and the spring is increased. I've seen so many lifters struggling to make depth because the material needs huge amounts of weight to stretch at the bottom. And when they come up they don't struggle to the max at the bottom of the lift, sometimes the bottom looks real easy.This tells me that they hip muscles don't work to their fullest in bottom position,which makes for a different lift.

Well maybe that wasn't the best comparison, but if you put on a good pair of knee wraps and a good belt, you will increase your squat by at least 50 lbs. Now with a good suit with proper training, with wraps and belt, you can get at least 100-150 lbs minimum. The first time I tried an Inzer belt I put 50 lbs on my deadlift.
Going wide with a suit is nothing more then technique. Has nothing to do with making the suit get more bounce out of the bottom. Brian Siders uses a narrow stance and squats upper 900's. They make suits with different cuts that fit differently. There are suits for various types of squatting as well as deadlifting and benching techniques.

[greuceanu]

Well maybe that wasn't the best comparison, but if you put on a good pair of knee wraps and a good belt, you will increase your squat by at least 50 lbs. Now with a good suit with proper training, with wraps and belt, you can get at least 100-150 lbs minimum. The first time I tried an Inzer belt I put 50 lbs on my deadlift.
Going wide with a suit is nothing more then technique. Has nothing to do with making the suit get more bounce out of the bottom. Brian Siders uses a narrow stance and squats upper 900's. They make suits with different cuts that fit differently. There are suits for various types of squatting as well as deadlifting and benching techniques.

True, the wraps will add something, especially the wraps in use nowadays. My point was though that they are different than the way a suit helps. As for belt,it only helps theoretically if your abs are not strong enough.

I've always used a belt btw so i don't have some anti-belt agenda.I recently started using wraps too as my knee started bothering me.I don't put them very tight,just enough to feel my knee is protected.They do seem to help me get an extra rep.

Regarding with going wide with a heavy suit,i will disagree.The only way to get the most out of a heavy suit is to stretch it to the max and create more rebound. There's a reason why all the 1k+squatters in the world go so wide and the main reason is precisely to get more bounce at the bottom.

True, it has to do with technique,because that's the best technique for those kind of suits. Notice i was talking about the heavy suits, not the single ply that Brian Siders uses in the IPF. I consider Brian's stance more of a medium one, but that may be because to me the olympic stance is the narrow one.

[billy mimnaugh]

True, the wraps will add something, especially the wraps in use nowadays. My point was though that they are different than the way a suit helps. As for belt,it only helps theoretically if your abs are not strong enough.

I've always used a belt btw so i don't have some anti-belt agenda.I recently started using wraps too as my knee started bothering me.I don't put them very tight,just enough to feel my knee is protected.They do seem to help me get an extra rep.

Regarding with going wide with a heavy suit,i will disagree.The only way to get the most out of a heavy suit is to stretch it to the max and create more rebound. There's a reason why all the 1k+squatters in the world go so wide and the main reason is precisely to get more bounce at the bottom.

True, it has to do with technique,because that's the best technique for those kind of suits. Notice i was talking about the heavy suits, not the single ply that Brian Siders uses in the IPF. I consider Brian's stance more of a medium one, but that may be because to me the olympic stance is the narrow one.


Well,you really cant say Olympic squats are narrow squats since we are talking powerlifting.Kirk is a narrow stance squatter in powerlifting.Vogelpohl is a wide stance squatter.The stance helps only in certain suits.A canvas,you need a wide stance,but an Inzer T-REX you can use either.

[tjoe]

speaking of suits...
I know there is a certain "groove" that bech shirts tend to have and the better you learn the shirt, the more you get out of it.
Does the same apply to squat/deadlift suits? Lets say the T-Rex by Inzer. Would it change my form? WOuld I have to adapt to the suit?

[billy mimnaugh]

speaking of suits...
I know there is a certain "groove" that bech shirts tend to have and the better you learn the shirt, the more you get out of it.
Does the same apply to squat/deadlift suits? Lets say the T-Rex by Inzer. Would it change my form? WOuld I have to adapt to the suit?


Not so much a T-REX,but a canvas is VERY difficult to master.The suit wants to shoot you foreward.You have to learn to force your form into the suit.Its very difficult to really get the hang of.As with shirts,the more extreme you go,the more form and work needs to used in your traing.

[Skeptic]

Think about it from the point of view of a different sport. Let's use cycling.

MOST of the time, MOST road cyclists who train in order to get in shape or compete or whatever ride standard road bicycles. But triathletes, and road cyclists doing time trials use a special bicycle fitting called a "time trial bike".

Interestingly, I cannot remember anyone on a cycling forum denouncing the use of this type of technology that unquestionably improves performance, but that also takes time to learn to use (try it, the position is very different).

Now, there are two one hour world records: one for the use of "standard" technology and one for the use of "time trial" technology.

Can't we all just get along?

[greuceanu]

Well,you really cant say Olympic squats are narrow squats since we are talking powerlifting.Kirk is a narrow stance squatter in powerlifting.Vogelpohl is a wide stance squatter.The stance helps only in certain suits.A canvas,you need a wide stance,but an Inzer T-REX you can use either.

By heavy suits i meant canvas ones, not polyester.

[greuceanu]

Think about it from the point of view of a different sport. Let's use cycling.

MOST of the time, MOST road cyclists who train in order to get in shape or compete or whatever ride standard road bicycles. But triathletes, and road cyclists doing time trials use a special bicycle fitting called a "time trial bike".

Interestingly, I cannot remember anyone on a cycling forum denouncing the use of this type of technology that unquestionably improves performance, but that also takes time to learn to use (try it, the position is very different).

Now, there are two one hour world records: one for the use of "standard" technology and one for the use of "time trial" technology.

Can't we all just get along?

The sports you mentioned need the technological equipment to exist, you can't be a cyclist without a bike.So if technology improves, it's still the same sport.

For powerlifting ,you don't need the gear to have the sport.Now that you have gear, there are things changed vs raw, the grooves, what muscles are more important, etc. It's a different sport IMO but same roots.

There is room for everyone to do what they like and while i prefer raw, the geared powerlifting is mainstream now, so i'm in minority.I mean mainstream in the powerlifting world.

We are getting along,no one is fighting, we're just discussing different points of view.I hope it's ok to discuss on a discussion board yes?

[billy mimnaugh]

By heavy suits i meant canvas ones, not polyester.

TITANS BOSS suit is as heavy as a canvas.Steve Goggins wore it when he hit the 1100lb squat.I think he is one of the most narrow stance guys in the sport.

[greuceanu]

TITANS BOSS suit is as heavy as a canvas.Steve Goggins wore it when he hit the 1100lb squat.I think he is one of the most narrow stance guys in the sport.

Ok.

[Skeptic]

Does RAW lifting mean no belt?

[BigJD69]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fivhv5znPg0
That's Deep to me!

[robert da strongman]

Does RAW lifting mean no belt?

hopefully thats a no.

[greuceanu]

Does RAW lifting mean no belt?

It depends on who you ask or the fed. Generally raw lifting is accepted as wrist wraps, belt and knee wraps,no suits. 100% raw is no wrist wraps, no belt, no knee wraps- zero supporting equipment.

Somewhat fuzzy definition,i know.

[iusealittle]

the only squat that looked good to me was the failed attempt by wennel.

use.

[rinse]

... for a guy that benches 200 raw... nope.
for a guy that benches 700-800... sure. BUT that guy can still do 7ish raw!!
I would guess there are guys out there that can get 300 out of it but that is probably the exception more than the rule.

No one who benches 800lbs with a shirt can do 7ish raw. Try 500- 600 range. Where does you're magic numbers come from?

[BK]

speaking of suits...
I know there is a certain "groove" that bech shirts tend to have and the better you learn the shirt, the more you get out of it.
Does the same apply to squat/deadlift suits? Lets say the T-Rex by Inzer. Would it change my form? WOuld I have to adapt to the suit?
Yes to both. The groove and and area of support are different in shirts. Most denim shirts groove is right between the belly button and sternum and the support can be either in the triceps or shoulders. In the poly shirt, the grooves vary depending on the cut of the shirt. I have seen the groove be just below the chest to as low as above the belly button.
Squat suits and/or briefs are the same way. Denim is good for wide stance squatting and sumo deadlifting because of the uncompromising material. Poly suits depends on the cut of the suit. I have seen wide, medium , and narrow squats in poly suits.
As far as form changing the answer is absolutely. Benching, squatting, and deadlifting becomes a different ballgame when factoring in a suit. You must train in the suit often to master the technique and find what form works best for you.

[LilMendy]

Well,Ive got over 20 years of expieriance behind me,and thats 20 years of competing,and bench shirts are not a joke.Whats a joke is guys trying to justify their lack of strength by knocking the choices of how others compete.There is a simple solution for you guys that are 'THE REAL STRONG GUYS".Pop on a shirt,go in a meet and humiliate these weaklings.If your so freaking strong and shirt benching is a joke,you wouls only have to do it once,kill all those pretenders and prove your point.Somehow I doubt that will EVER happen.


I agree Billy!!

[crashcrew56]

So what if the squats were only parrellel, why would you want to squat deeper than you need and put up a lower number, you compete to win. Also I don't understand why everyone is bitching about bench shirts, in most cases everyone that competes with a bench shirt on is competing against other lifters that are also wearing one

[smj091977]

Wow! A lot of discussion on shirts and gear. I have only once benched in a shirt. I was maxing a mere 315 at the time with a bodyweight of 220. It took me 30 minutes to get into the thing. It was only a one ply. My Hero, the GREAT Dean, put 315 on, No problem, flew up! next was 365. Was as easy as 315 in the shirt. Dean the Dream then said that was it. You only did one or two sets in a shirt. (Is that true? Dean was a liar, claimed to be a IPF world record holder...) I honestly think I could have gotten 20-30 more pounds out of the shirt. No basis on this other than years of benching raw. I felt like I was cheating though. I missed 325 the next week raw. I am not making any judgements on whether or not I think gear is cheating. I am just saying I felt like it was cheating for me. I feel the same about using prohormones/aas. Like that would take away my feeling of accomplishment. I never put the shirt back on. I think I paid $50 or so for that one time use.