PDA

View Full Version : Oral Glucosamine Supplementation A Waste of $$$ for Healthy Individuals??



freak
06-25-2009, 12:27 PM
Hey everyone, I've been researching the use of Glucosamine (usually along with MSM) in healthy individuals. Anything I can find that shows results is only in people with osteoarthritis (people with rheumatoid arthritis showed no benefits from supplementation).... As you should know, people with osteoarthritis aren't representative of the population or healthy individuals so you can't extrapolate this to healthy individuals without osteoarthritis.

So can anybody locate a study that tests glucosamine supplementation in healthy individuals?? or is it just another band wagon supplement like glutamine?

Salfetka
06-25-2009, 05:20 PM
i looked everywhere but i couldnt find a research done on healthy individuals. my opinion though is that if glucosamine helps the people that have probs with their joints than it should help the healthy ones too. i mean why not?

freak
06-25-2009, 05:59 PM
i looked everywhere but i couldnt find a research done on healthy individuals. my opinion though is that if glucosamine helps the people that have probs with their joints than it should help the healthy ones too. i mean why not?
then why didnt it help people with rheumatoid arthritis? and why not?? cause it has no scientific evidence behind it. you into homeopathy as well?? no evidence = waste of time and money

HolyCrapItsWes
06-26-2009, 12:14 AM
I don't have any tests to show either but I started having elbow and knee problems from repetitive lifting at work(gym life doesn't help either). Someone recommended me taking glucosamine and I found the cheapest bottle at Target and I haven't had any problems since. I seriously doubt it is a placebo or a coincidence because my joint problems were going on for awhile. I just kept ignoring it. But yeah, started taking it about a month ago and haven't had any problems since!

freak
06-26-2009, 01:14 AM
I don't have any tests to show either but I started having elbow and knee problems from repetitive lifting at work(gym life doesn't help either). Someone recommended me taking glucosamine and I found the cheapest bottle at Target and I haven't had any problems since. I seriously doubt it is a placebo or a coincidence because my joint problems were going on for awhile. I just kept ignoring it. But yeah, started taking it about a month ago and haven't had any problems since!
you started taking something with the expectation that it would alleviate your joint pains... obviously placebo effects are out of the question. anecdotes are not evidence.

user12345654321
06-30-2009, 11:43 AM
i started takeing Glucosamine @ 4g a day since i had problems with my knees & shoulders, since then no problems. imo it works well and any1 should consider taking it, it's better to prevent rather than cure!

xxterxx
06-30-2009, 12:19 PM
my mother is suffering frm athritis.... i got her some glucosamine with chondoritin and MSM... it worked like a charm.... it doesnt work overnight... it gradually improved her pain in the course of 4-6 weeks.... she has been on it for years now and her pain has been alot lesser and not disturbing with activities

Sledge
06-30-2009, 08:47 PM
One of the few so called supplements worth the $$. Years of knee pain and neck pain here. Started using Glucosamine. Now running 5km a day, running up and down stairs , no or little knee pain. Sleeping well because of no neck pain.
I don't see the reason anyone would use it who dosn't have existing problems though. It treats existing degeneration it's not marketed as a preventative.

B7emm
06-30-2009, 08:52 PM
It helps with my joint pain. so I use it. not the scientific answer someone was looking for but it works for me.

freak
03-11-2010, 11:04 PM
bump for nostalgia

freak
03-13-2010, 04:12 PM
0000

p.s.
06-06-2010, 12:51 PM
As dogs are not affected by the placebo effect it has been found that glucosamine is quite helpfull with hip displaysia in dogs, and as I have developed some nasty joint issues due to a knee injury and post surgical joint infection I have found glucosamine to be helpfull as well.

However I would think that as most guys who lift can mistake tendon or ligament problems as joint issues it only makes sense that glucosamine would not work in such cases.

GENESIS
08-15-2010, 12:59 PM
How would it be proven in healthy individuals? by definition those people dont have joint pains so even if the product was rebuilding cartilage it would go unnoticed.

getcarved
10-17-2010, 10:12 AM
I also feel it works, and for the price I will continue to take it. Years of basketball wrecked my knees, but they feel better than they have in years, I attribute much of that to Gluc/Chon/MSM along with fish oil. I will continue to take them.

TPT
10-18-2010, 09:41 PM
The effects of glucosamine may be suspect for healthy subjects, but glucosamine may simply be indicated for osteoarthritic subjects.

Bump for my man Freak.



Osteoarthritis Cartilage. 2010 Jan;18(1):34-40. Epub 2009 Jul 15.
Glucosamine but not ibuprofen alters cartilage turnover in osteoarthritis patients in response to physical training.
Petersen SG, Saxne T, Heinegard D, Hansen M, Holm L, Koskinen S, Stordal C, Christensen H, Aagaard P, Kjaer M.
Institute of Sports Medicine Copenhagen, Faculty of Health Sciences, Bispebjerg Hospital, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. sp12@bbh.regionh.dk
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To investigate changes in levels of serum cartilage oligomeric matrix protein (COMP) and urine c-telopeptide of type-2 collagen (CTX-II) as markers for cartilage turnover in patients with osteoarthritis (OA) of the knee, in response to muscle strength training in combination with treatment with glucosamine, ibuprofen or placebo.
DESIGN: A 12-week double blind, placebo controlled, randomized study.
METHOD: Thirty-six elderly patients with bilateral tibiofemoral knee OA determined by radiography were randomly assigned to treatment with glucosamine (n=12), ibuprofen (n=12) or placebo (n=12) during 12 weeks of strength training of both legs with focus on the quadriceps muscle. Strength tests (5 repetition maximum), blood and urine sampling were performed before and after the training period. Serum COMP and urinary CTX-II were measured by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA).
RESULTS: All three groups increased their muscle strength following 12 weeks of strength training (P<0.001). Serum COMP levels were reduced in the glucosamine-treated group after the training period (P=0.012), whereas they did not change in the two other groups. Glucosamine reduced COMP statistically significant compared to both placebo and ibuprofen; the mean reduction with glucosamine was 13% vs placebo (P=0.0378) and 17% vs ibuprofen (P=0.0122). Urinary CTX-II levels did not change significantly in any of the three experimental groups.
CONCLUSION: Serum COMP decreased significantly over the 12-week training period when treatment with glucosamine was added to the training regimen. This suggests an effect by glucosamine on the response of the OA cartilage to a period of joint loading in humans with knee OA.
Copyright 2009 Osteoarthritis Research Society International. Published by Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.
PMID: 19679221 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

tipsta
10-24-2010, 03:59 PM
Hey everyone, I've been researching the use of Glucosamine (usually along with MSM) in healthy individuals. Anything I can find that shows results is only in people with osteoarthritis (people with rheumatoid arthritis showed no benefits from supplementation).... As you should know, people with osteoarthritis aren't representative of the population or healthy individuals so you can't extrapolate this to healthy individuals without osteoarthritis.

So can anybody locate a study that tests glucosamine supplementation in healthy individuals?? or is it just another band wagon supplement like glutamine?


Once many of you stop looking at supplements as "Works or dont work" you will see the importance and benefits much more clearly. You must first understand they are merely nutrients that are needed by the human body to allow its metabolic functions to operate properly and to aid in the healing and repair that is an ongoing process by the human body... Cut your skin...It heals....Break a bone....It heals....Have major heart surgery....It heals... The human body is able to do this with the use of macro as well as micro nutrients... That being said... Glucosamine as well as Chondroitin are nutrients that the human body uses to keep the integrity of our joints in check...They are commonly found in shellfish...The human body sheds its external layer of its joints and renews the surface every 15 to 25 days....It uses these nutrients to do so...The only reason we end up with joint problems is because we are nutrient deficient in that arena for many years...I would think anyone who compromises the integrity of their joints in any way would not even question the use of these supplements knowing how needed they truly are...


I use very few supplements but have a base that I never ever deviate from which includes a multi with 50 mgs of all "B" complex, 1000 mgs "C" at Each meal...... and Chondroitin Glucosamine and MSM at meal 1

tipsta
10-24-2010, 04:22 PM
So can anybody locate a study that tests glucosamine supplementation in healthy individuals?? or is it just another band wagon supplement like glutamine?


Once again...Its not a matter of works or dont work....

The primary fuel used by the small intestines is Glutamine..... The body breaks down muscle under a workload to attain mainly GLUtamine, as it is the most abundant single amino in human muscle, to send to the liver to make GLUcose...Oral GLUtamine consumption signals the pancreas to release GLUcagon to tell the liver to release GLUcose......The small intestines sheds its surface area quite rapidly and renews its surface area every several days and guess what nutrient it uses to do this repair....Glutamine... And at $10 a month its a no brainer!!!

I believe they marketed this supplement horrifically due to the fact that it was never explained as to the functions of the human body and how it uses this nutrient...It is basically useless post workout in my opinion but extremely beneficial prior and during...Leucine is what becomes most important post workout as this is the single amino acid that is truly the on switch to protein synthesis...BCAA's in general which is why Whey is so important in the diet at 28% BCAA's...

Costco77
10-24-2010, 09:11 PM
Once again...Its not a matter of works or dont work....

The primary fuel used by the small intestines is Glutamine..... The body breaks down muscle under a workload to attain mainly GLUtamine, as it is the most abundant single amino in human muscle, to send to the liver to make GLUcose...Oral GLUtamine consumption signals the pancreas to release GLUcagon to tell the liver to release GLUcose......The small intestines sheds its surface area quite rapidly and renews its surface area every several days and guess what nutrient it uses to do this repair....Glutamine... And at $10 a month its a no brainer!!!

I believe they marketed this supplement horrifically due to the fact that it was never explained as to the functions of the human body and how it uses this nutrient...It is basically useless post workout in my opinion but extremely beneficial prior and during...Leucine is what becomes most important post workout as this is the single amino acid that is truly the on switch to protein synthesis...BCAA's in general which is why Whey is so important in the diet at 28% BCAA's...

I don't see why a bodybuilder would get any added benifits of performance or body composition by taking an oral glutamine supplement. Seems like a waste of money for bodybuilding purposes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11822473

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834123

...i won't be buying a glutamine supplement anytime soon

GENESIS
10-24-2010, 11:15 PM
This guy had a real good response to the whole glutamine issue.


Everyone says (and studies show) that glutamine is poorly absorbed - BUT I have noticed positive effects on recovery from it. So much so that I take 10g every morning on an empty stomach while I'm cooking my breakfast.

Studies show that most of it is doesnt make it past the gut, however what I have never understood is how that is a bad thing? If the gut, which has to do with the immune system is taking up the glutamine, then that means its not having to catabolize it from muscle tissue. So in an indirect way glutamine is working.

I'd like for someone to expand on that theory instead of always hashing up that glutamine gets stopped by the gut and doesnt make it to the muscle - who says it has to make it to the muscle to spare muscle glutamine?

Costco77
10-25-2010, 12:28 AM
Slightly less than half of glutamine taken orally can make it past the liver into the blood stream, only 10% will make it outside the cell, the ten percent that gets past the GI track is converted into sugar where it is stored as glycogen in the liver...90% of glutamine taken orally never makes it into your muscle cells..."getcarved" is right that not all of the glutamine is wasted, your GI track loves glutamine and most of the glutamine (taken orally) is absorbed in your GI track...it stays in the GI track where it is metabolized in the cells, but never goes into your blood stream (to feed the muscle tissue).

So it will improve your GI track funtion, it's especially great if you are having intestinal problems. It's also a great supplement for immune support, but not for bodybuilders looking to build muscle or improve performance. Especailly a bodybuilders diet that gets plenty of glutamine from our diet, whey protein powders are also high in glutamine.

If you want to take it and think that it's doing something for you in terms of performance and muscle gain go ahead and waste your money. On top of that studies haven't even shown it to be benificial in terms of body composition or performance...see studies above.

tipsta
10-25-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't see why a bodybuilder would get any added benifits of performance or body composition by taking an oral glutamine supplement. Seems like a waste of money for bodybuilding purposes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11822473

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834123

...i won't be buying a glutamine supplement anytime soon

You dont see that having available glutamine under a workload is beneficial to NOT having the body tear down muscle to attain it??? Interesting...Its called gluconeogenesis and it is something you definitely dont want taking place with aminos from your muscles....

Lets see now,... The majority of your digestion and assimilation occurs in the small intestines and 75% of your immune system resides in your small intestines.. By not supporting the integrity of the intestines themselves you will inevitably hinder these two functions..