training frequency wars!

[raging pitbull]

we all know that when we train back, chest, shoulders; we feel soreness in our major muscles and our smaller muscles.
what is the point of training arms if your tri and bis are being trained when doing back, shoulder, and chest? why train arms at all? sometimes bis are worked on leg day(deadlifts), back day ( any back exercise will exhaust the arms) and shoulder day ( trap work and front raises. tris are worked when doing chest ( bench presses)and shoulders( shoulder presses).


any thaughts or tips would be appreciated.

[Shadow]

That soreness you feel in your assisting muscles is from just that...assistance. The level of work they are getting is nowhere near what they get when you actually dedicate a session to training just them.

[raging pitbull]

the soreness one can feel in the bicep after a grueling set of deadlifts the next day or any back exercise can be excruicating. i cant straighten out my arms after back day.

[Shadow]

the soreness one can feel in the bicep after a grueling set of deadlifts the next day or any back exercise can be excruicating. i cant straighten out my arms after back day.

Honestly, if your arms are getting that sore after back day, you're involving your biceps too much and need to learn how to isolate. A little arm pump is inevitable, but it shouldn't be so much that you're THAT sore the next day.

[Sledge]

I trained for years without training arms at all. But I'm not a bodybuilder I train for function more than just size or strength.

[raging pitbull]

Honestly, if your arms are getting that sore after back day, you're involving your biceps too much and need to learn how to isolate. A little arm pump is inevitable, but it shouldn't be so much that you're THAT sore the next day.

yea, but i also feel very sore in the whole back region.

[raging pitbull]

lets say that somebody decides to work arms on wed. the next day that person decides to work legs, but wants to do deadlifts, that is not goin to happen.
can anybody do deadlifts a day after arms? (i dont think so)

[gogeta5]

well you have to consider the genetics factor,I mean we've all seen guys having a pair of arms that grow no matter what...then you've got guys that their arms are really stuborn like me.I think you should 1rst see if your arms are a good bodypart or not,then decide on the volume & frequency.when you work the larger muscle groups you do work the smaller ones,sometimes more directly (you'll have to use tris directly when benching nomatter what,same goes for bis when rowing freewheight),that's why you do fewer sets usually for arms (if lets say you do 20 sets for back you do 9-12 max for bis) and you kinda space them apart,if lets say you do back on Mon,then bis on Fri.then again if your arms are really good,you can do back & bis,chest & tris on the same day & still have wonderful results

[Chili]

lets say that somebody decides to work arms on wed. the next day that person decides to work legs, but wants to do deadlifts, that is not goin to happen.
can anybody do deadlifts a day after arms? (i dont think so)


First of all I don't understand why you wouldnt be able to deadlift a day after arms are trained. Are you deadlifting, or doing barbell rows?? If you are doing deadlift correctly then your arms shouldnt do anything other than connect your body to the weight. All of the work should be done from your legs, hips, and back, while your arms stay straight. Sounds to me like you need to work on your "mind/muscle connection"!! If your arms are that ridiculously sore after a back day, I got news for ya bro, you arent hitting your back very good!! Remember, "ego training" will do nothing more than preventing you from growing, and possibly get you hurt. Don't be like the guys I call "Hitch and Un-hitch" in the gym. You know, the ones that get under a leg press loaded up all the way and don't even un-hitch the safety racks, screaming while they lower the weight 5/16 of an inch and then push it back up by pushing on their knees with the hands. I guess if you train like that then maybe your triceps could be sore from assisting a pathetic set of presses.

Practice perfect form, visualize the muscle you are trying to train actually moving the weight, and go down in weight if you have to!! That will keep you from using your 'assisting" muscles too much.

[Shadow]

First of all I don't understand why you wouldnt be able to deadlift a day after arms are trained. Are you deadlifting, or doing barbell rows?? If you are doing deadlift correctly then your arms shouldnt do anything other than connect your body to the weight. All of the work should be done from your legs, hips, and back, while your arms stay straight. Sounds to me like you need to work on your "mind/muscle connection"!! If your arms are that ridiculously sore after a back day, I got news for ya bro, you arent hitting your back very good!! Remember, "ego training" will do nothing more than preventing you from growing, and possibly get you hurt. Don't be like the guys I call "Hitch and Un-hitch" in the gym. You know, the ones that get under a leg press loaded up all the way and don't even un-hitch the safety racks, screaming while they lower the weight 5/16 of an inch and then push it back up by pushing on their knees with the hands. I guess if you train like that then maybe your triceps could be sore from assisting a pathetic set of presses.

Practice perfect form, visualize the muscle you are trying to train actually moving the weight, and go down in weight if you have to!! That will keep you from using your 'assisting" muscles too much.

Exactly.

[gogeta5]

lets say that somebody decides to work arms on wed. the next day that person decides to work legs, but wants to do deadlifts, that is not goin to happen.
can anybody do deadlifts a day after arms? (i dont think so)

why can't you do arms after deadlifting?the primary muscles should be back,glutes,hams,quads of you do full range with shoulders & traps,the rest should be stabilizing you.If you mean that deadlifts take a toll on your body,yes they do,then you should take the next day off,cause it's so taxing that your nervous system hasn't recuperated enough to do anything.but if you've rested,or your recuparation abilities are that good,then you shouldn't have any problem

[raging pitbull]

First of all I don't understand why you wouldnt be able to deadlift a day after arms are trained. Are you deadlifting, or doing barbell rows?? If you are doing deadlift correctly then your arms shouldnt do anything other than connect your body to the weight. All of the work should be done from your legs, hips, and back, while your arms stay straight. Sounds to me like you need to work on your "mind/muscle connection"!! If your arms are that ridiculously sore after a back day, I got news for ya bro, you arent hitting your back very good!! Remember, "ego training" will do nothing more than preventing you from growing, and possibly get you hurt. Don't be like the guys I call "Hitch and Un-hitch" in the gym. You know, the ones that get under a leg press loaded up all the way and don't even un-hitch the safety racks, screaming while they lower the weight 5/16 of an inch and then push it back up by pushing on their knees with the hands. I guess if you train like that then maybe your triceps could be sore from assisting a pathetic set of presses.

Practice perfect form, visualize the muscle you are trying to train actually moving the weight, and go down in weight if you have to!! That will keep you from using your 'assisting" muscles too much.

i feel the work in my back when im rowing. besides i use slow form with moderate weight.

[Ronnie Rowland]

That soreness you feel in your assisting muscles is from just that...assistance. The level of work they are getting is nowhere near what they get when you actually dedicate a session to training just them.
I agree! You've got to train the arms with curls and extensions if you want to develop them to their full potential. There's a very good reason every top level pro bodybuilders does the same. ;)

[raging pitbull]

I agree! You've got to train the arms with curls and extensions if you want to develop them to their full potential. There's a very good reason every top level pro bodybuilders does the same. ;)



thanx for the advice, so bottom line; arms need to be trained. i guess i would train them on seperate days.

[Steve_Colescott]

the soreness one can feel in the bicep after a grueling set of deadlifts the next day or any back exercise can be excruicating. i cant straighten out my arms after back day.

Deadlifts are a different story. That soreness is from the stretch placed on them. Your knuckles should be dragging on the sidewalk within three months.

Seriously, there are different types of soreness... Lactic acid soreness from muscle contraction/remodeling, soreness from extreme stretching, soreness from tendon/soft tissue stress. Stabilizer muscles also need direct work if you want growth in that bodypart since it is highly unlikely you will ever get close enough to failure to stimulate adequate muscle fibers.