Street Smart Nutrition with Ron Noreman!

[huge285]

Ask Ron Noreman all your questions regarding nutrition and supplementation. He's the guy who introduced me to MACADAMIA NUT OIL!!

[GetLean]

What is your stand on Flaxseed Oil?

[Ron Noreman]

Flax oil is filled with phyto-estrogens from the lignans. Its 1990's technology- sorry Udo Erasmus (he wrote a 600 page book plugging flax and other oils in the 90s). 4-5 grams a day of quality fish oil (omega 3s) balanced out with 4-5 grams of cold pressed evening primrose oil (omega 6's) is the bomb!! The rest of your oil intake should be from monounsaturates such as macadamia and virgin olive oil and RAW NUTS. I WILL TRY TO POST MY ARTICLE OF A COUPLE YEARS AGO -STREET SMART FAT INTAKE, which is the most practical and understandable article on fats in the bodybuilding world. Many posers and punks in the bodybuilding world tried to claim my fat program as their own within a month or 2 of the publication of this article and put it in their own columns in muscle magazines. It was even translated into French and posted on a French website.
Finally, Species Nutrition makes a fatty acid supplement. I think its called Omegalyze that incorporates "Street Smart Fat Intake" style fatty acid proportions all in one formula. If you guys are spending your money on Nitric Oxide and BCAA supplements before a quality essential fat formula like this, you are building a house without a foundation and your gains (and health) will lag accordingly.
Ron

[militantmuscle]

Hey Ron,

Great to have you in the forum!

My question is, what did you tell Dave when you 'introduced' him to macadamia nut oil?

[GetLean]

Great I had gotten a bottle for free, so have been using it, but from what I've read its not the best.

Thanks

I'd love to see that article

[Frosty]

Okay so you don't like flax oil, but do chia seeds offer any nutritional benefit? Not as a replacement to fish oil, but as a compliment in moderate amounts to supply some raw alpha linolenic acid.

[Ron Noreman]

My theories about fat are as follows:
Get your essential fatty acids in as active a form as possible. Fish Oil- which already has been converted into the biologically active Omega 3 components EPA and DHA (flax has to be converted into these active fat substrates and the body's ability to convert is often inefficient). Cold pressed evening primrose oil is a great source of GLA's which is the biologically active component of Omega 6's.
Now you want to get your Essential Fats in as concentrated source as possible because Omega 3 and 6's are inherently unstable and suseptable to getting rancid, free radical attack and oxidation. If any of these problems result, these formerly beneficial fats become unhealthy. We want the fats concentrated because a given amount of fat soluble antioxidants can protect 12 of 15 grams of oil more efficiently than a quarter cup of sunflower seed oil and 6 tablespoons of flax and is also calorically more efficient. Also normal metabolism and especially exercise induced oxygen consumption would cause a huge amount of free radical reations with all that polyunsaturated fat in a nonconcentrated form.
The rest of our fat should come from highly stable mono-unsaturated fats which resist oxidation, are good for the cardiovascular system and may be helpful in weight loss. Macadamia nut oil is the most highly mono-unsaturated oil in existance and can withstand reasonable heat without oxididation so you can cook with it (the topic of a later discussion) and it tastes great.
Thats what I told Dave about Mac oil. He agreed with all the logic and thats how we both roll.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Hey Elite (forgot you number) whats up the the introduced in quotes?? I literally called Dave and told him to try Mac oil and told him why I thought it would be good as per my above explanation.

[FU*KMD!]

Hey Ron!
I've read MSG is in
Sodium Caseinate
Calcium Caseinate
which is a common ingredient in many mixed protein powders, casein protein powders, MRP's and rtd's such as lean body etc..
In your opinion does the risk of MSG outweigh any of the possible benefits of consuming these sources of protein?

Thanks.

[Ron Noreman]

Its a huge stretch that the Glutimates in Casein would be converted into MSG. In the Middle Ages it was said that certain priests could turn lead into gold. These might be the only ones who could turn casein into MSG.
I'd use my casein, normally only before bed, and not worry about myths.
Whey is better all other times of the day. I use a ton of Isolyze by Species.

Hope I helped,

Ron

[GetLean]

I believe in taking creatine, Morning and Post Workout, do you agree with that?

[militantmuscle]

Hey Elite (forgot you number) whats up the the introduced in quotes?? I literally called Dave and told him to try Mac oil and told him why I thought it would be good as per my above explanation.

Hey Ron,

I apologize, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful/cynical at all, I just wasn't sure what introduced meant, so I wanted to know the full story:)

[FU*KMD!]

MSG Fron Casein?????

Its a huge stretch that the Glutimates in Casein would be converted into MSG. In the Middle Ages it was said that certain priests could turn lead into gold. These might be the only ones who could turn casein into MSG.
I'd use my casein, normally only before bed, and not worry about myths.
Whey is better all other times of the day. I use a ton of Isolyze by Species.

Hope I helped,

Ron


Thanks a lot, I thought it was sketchy due to lack of references with the claims, but was curious since I have 1 or 2 shakes with it a day.

[Womanthrower]

Hey Ron, what are your thoughts on chili oil as a fat source?

[Ron Noreman]

Hey Ron,

I apologize, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful/cynical at all, I just wasn't sure what introduced meant, so I wanted to know the full story:)

Hey elite316- we are all here to have fun and when it all comes down to it we are brothers and sisters in our strange little sport. I'm happy to have you on the boards and I hope we get to meet or speak sometime in the future.

[Ron Noreman]

I believe in taking creatine, Morning and Post Workout, do you agree with that?

Tell me a bit more:

-type of creatine
-taken with what foods
-timing in relation to your workout

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Hey Womanthrower,

Interesting question. Chili oil is normally made by soaking hot chili peppers in oil for several days to pick up the flavor and spicey heat of the oil.

Street Smart Suggestion- hot peppers are a great metobolic booster. A large quantity of Cheyenne pepers can increase your metabolism by over 200 calories per day. They are always part of my contest prep. If you like "hot" foods create your own chili oil from a good cold pressed monounsaturated oil (macadamia or extra virgin olive). Use this as part of your daily allowable fat portion. Cardio in a spoon!!!!

Ron

[GetLean]

When I'm on a strict diet, I will only eat simple sugars/fast digesting carbs twice through out the day, those times being Morning and Post Workout, so I figured since I spike my insulin the highest at those times, taking my CrM would be the best Morning and Post.

[FU*KMD!]

They are always part of my contest prep


What does your contest prep diet look like in general?

[Ron Noreman]

What does your contest prep diet look like in general?

I am burried in my tax practice. Give me a couple of days and I will respond in depth. I think you will find that you will learn more about real nutrition from this thread than any other. You be the judge. (just ask Dave Palumbo).

Ron

[FU*KMD!]

Sounds good, Can't wait.

[GameofInches]

I am burried in my tax practice. Give me a couple of days and I will respond in depth. I think you will find that you will learn more about real nutrition from this thread than any other. You be the judge. (just ask Dave Palumbo).

Ron

I am very excited to hear about this!

[Transporter22]

Hey Ron, few amino acid questions:
1. Is there a maximum amount of Leucine that one should take in a day?
2. Would it be worth while to add a couple an extra gram or two to shakes throughout the day or just time it around pre/during/post excercise?
3. Do you know if any companies sell straight up 4-hydroxyisoleucine?

Much thanks.

[Ron Noreman]

When I'm on a strict diet, I will only eat simple sugars/fast digesting carbs twice through out the day, those times being Morning and Post Workout, so I figured since I spike my insulin the highest at those times, taking my CrM would be the best Morning and Post.

Forget about simple sugars on a STRICT diet. Its counterproductive. If your carbs are otherwise low, you may have a moderately small portion of white rice (refined carbohydrate) post workout. Thats all the insulin spike you need. I don't know what self-proclaimed expert said you need an insulin spike first thing in the morning. I've seen this crap in Flex magazine several times. It is not necessary for off-season bulking or certainly not on a fat loss diet. Off-season, Ezikiel bread or oatmeal is a far better part of breakfast than sugar water, maltidextrose or the like.

For the record, I diet on low carbs when I'm trying to cut up (150 (high) to 75 grams (low)).

Ron

[HARDCOREB]

Ron, just curious of what you're two cent's are on HMB (betahydroxybutyrate).

[Ron Noreman]

HMB- compared to Anavar in Muscle Media 2000. A lot of hype about it in the mid 90s. In reality, there are no consistant studies about the effectiveness of HMB. Some say it prevents muscle breakdown during dieting. I'm not a big fan of that line of reasoning. If something is not strong enough to help build you up in times of plentiful calories, you can bet it isn't strong enough to help you keep mass on the way down.
Save your money. Buy a good multivitamin/mineral instead and take care of your baseline nutrition.
I am amazed how many bodybuilders don't use a multi.
If you are on this thread, let me know if you use a multi: why or why not; and what brand.

Ron

[SoxFan11]

I've used a multi for years. I really like Beverly's Super Pak.

[Mighty]

Hey Ron,

Care to give us a little overview on how and why fat intake can help with muscle growth? I know Dave talks about this sometimes, and I was curious

[SoxFan11]

Ron-
Quick question about fat. What would you suggest in a bedtime shake? I've been using flax oil for years, but I know you're not a fan of it. I use macadamia nut oil during the day with any shakes I have. Should I use that or would a couple TB of natural peanut butter be okay?
Thanks!

[HARDCOREB]

Work for gnc but have opted to use Animal Pak for the last two year over the mega men.The mega men sport is a great muti for those not looking to swallow 11 pills at once...Lol..

[Bubba Bronko]

Work for gnc but have opted to use Animal Pak for the last two year over the mega men.The mega men sport is a great muti for those not looking to swallow 11 pills at once...Lol..

Oh common an being an an animal stak is fun its pills galore! I dont feel the same if I dont take my Pak

[Ron Noreman]

Ron-
Quick question about fat. What would you suggest in a bedtime shake? I've been using flax oil for years, but I know you're not a fan of it. I use macadamia nut oil during the day with any shakes I have. Should I use that or would a couple TB of natural peanut butter be okay?
Thanks!

I believe in mixing up fat sources so that we get a wider spectrum of nutrients in our diet. So by all means, use Mac oil a couple of times a day. Other times try RAW Almond butter which is far healthier than peanut butter with respect to fatty acid profile, nutrient content and the oil is NOT HEATED (like roasted peanuts in peanut butter). Most oils become adulterated once they are heated moderately (Mac oil is the exception, which may be heated briefly) which is why I am not a big fan of peanut butter. I also question if cooked salmon does not contain partially damaged fats-you heard it here first!!!!!

With respect to your earlier comment on multivitamins, here's the deal with Beverly Multi Pacs:

I believe that Beverly is a high quality company with mostly really good products. The problem with these pacs is that you take them once a day and the water soluble vitamins (B's and C) don't stay in your system very long. If they were time released over at least 12 hours I'd be a big fan. I believe you are better off taking a multi that you take 3 times a day.

Ron

[SoxFan11]

I believe in mixing up fat sources so that we get a wider spectrum of nutrients in our diet. So by all means, use Mac oil a couple of times a day. Other times try RAW Almond butter which is far healthier than peanut butter with respect to fatty acid profile, nutrient content and the oil is NOT HEATED (like roasted peanuts in peanut butter). Most oils become adulterated once they are heated moderately (Mac oil is the exception, which may be heated briefly) which is why I am not a big fan of peanut butter. I also question if cooked salmon does not contain partially damaged fats-you heard it here first!!!!!

With respect to your earlier comment on multivitamins, here's the deal with Beverly Multi Pacs:

I believe that Beverly is a high quality company with mostly really good products. The problem with these pacs is that you take them once a day and the water soluble vitamins (B's and C) don't stay in your system very long. If they were time released over at least 12 hours I'd be a big fan. I believe you are better off taking a multi that you take 3 times a day.

Ron

Thanks so much, Ron. I forgot to mention that I also use almond butter, too.

I used to take Beverly's Ultra 4 (2 pills am and 2 pills pm), but I thought that the Multi-Pak offered more bang for the buck. What would you think about sticking with the Multi-Pak but then adding in a B complex some other time(s) during the day? I already take 1g of C post workout.

I appreciate any and all feedback!

[Ron Noreman]

Thanks so much, Ron. I forgot to mention that I also use almond butter, too.

I used to take Beverly's Ultra 4 (2 pills am and 2 pills pm), but I thought that the Multi-Pak offered more bang for the buck. What would you think about sticking with the Multi-Pak but then adding in a B complex some other time(s) during the day? I already take 1g of C post workout.

I appreciate any and all feedback!

I believe that each pill in the Beverly multi-Pac has different nutrients in it so taking them at different times will not help. What you can do is take 500 -1000mg of vitamin c WITH BIOFLAVINOIDS twice a day at times when you do not take the multi-pac and medium dose B Complex at these times as well. Be sure to take in some fat at those times you take the Beverly Pacs to enhance utilization of fat soluble nutrients.

Ron

[SoxFan11]

I believe that each pill in the Beverly multi-Pac has different nutrients in it so taking them at different times will not help. What you can do is take 500 -1000mg of vitamin c WITH BIOFLAVINOIDS twice a day at times when you do not take the multi-pac and medium dose B Complex at these times as well. Be sure to take in some fat at those times you take the Beverly Pacs to enhance utilization of fat soluble nutrients.

Ron

Thanks again, Ron. I'm going to grab some B complex. Is there one that you would suggest?

[john koenig]

Ron, I don't have anything to add to your comments yet, but I just want to say I'm already vastly impressed with your clearness of thought and teaching. I may think I know a great deal about nutrition, but already I find myself thinking hard upon reading some of your comments, notably those about multi-vitamins and BCAAs. Thanks for turning Dave on to macadamia nut oil, I've been using it since he began talking about it on the air.

[lilarnold]

are you going to post the article you spoke of?

[STRENGTH-TRAINING]

hi ron
when someone has high fat on their legs, they have high estrogen. and more testosterone is converting to estrogen.
do you think testostolyze is the best supplement to help, or is there anything else that could be helpful, i read about taking higher dosages of zinc will help reduce the conversion.
thanks

[Ron Noreman]

Thanks again, Ron. I'm going to grab some B complex. Is there one that you would suggest?

Buy a name brand that has 50 mg of all the major B's and 300mcg of Biotin (which is often put in small quantities because it is expensive).

[Ron Noreman]

hi ron
when someone has high fat on their legs, they have high estrogen. and more testosterone is converting to estrogen.
do you think testostolyze is the best supplement to help, or is there anything else that could be helpful, i read about taking higher dosages of zinc will help reduce the conversion.
thanks

Testostolyze is a quality product. I believe this because I know the raw materials that go into it. It will certainly work better than anything nutritional. The most potent thing in the nutritional world for "displacing" estrogen is DIM, a broccolli extract. It has a mild effect but it will not do what the Species product will do. Perhaps its something to try if you ever cycle the Testostolyze.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

are you going to post the article you spoke of?
I will get to posting this article and I am sorry for the delay. I am working 60-70 hrs a week in my real profession and working out like a beast. I will do it when I have a bit of time.
Thanks for asking.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, I don't have anything to add to your comments yet, but I just want to say I'm already vastly impressed with your clearness of thought and teaching. I may think I know a great deal about nutrition, but already I find myself thinking hard upon reading some of your comments, notably those about multi-vitamins and BCAAs. Thanks for turning Dave on to macadamia nut oil, I've been using it since he began talking about it on the air.

John- thanks for the kind words. I will always do my best to share my 30 years of knowledge with you guys.
A bit of my resume:
- I have formulated 11 popular supplements that are on the market. The first one was created 15 years ago.
-I have done dozens of radio shows on nutrition on BIG radio stations.
-Doctors often call me about the nutritional issues of their patients.
- I have written several articles on things in the nutrition world that very few consider.
- My speciality is bridging the knowledge between wholistic and anti-aging nutrition and bodybuilding nutrition-(which is lacking in many, if not most, aspects of a total nutritional plan).
- This has all been done as a hobby. I am in the world of tax and finance professionally.
Stay tuned.

Ron

[hulkish808]

Hello Ron, I was wondering if it's possible to die/get a heart attack from consuming 10-15 grams of BCAA's after my workout? I got shutdown and scolded by one of the servers at the cafe in my school's rec center. He made a big deal about it, saying that I'm going to kill myself with those...Just wanted to clarify this to I can sleep well.

Also, what would you suggest for someone who is just starting to get sick..the cold, runny nose type of deal?

Jasen

[Ron Noreman]

Hello Ron, I was wondering if it's possible to die/get a heart attack from consuming 10-15 grams of BCAA's after my workout? I got shutdown and scolded by one of the servers at the cafe in my school's rec center. He made a big deal about it, saying that I'm going to kill myself with those...Just wanted to clarify this to I can sleep well.

Also, what would you suggest for someone who is just starting to get sick..the cold, runny nose type of deal?

Jasen

I have never heard of ANY data linking amino acids (like BCAA)to death or heart issues at any reasonable gram range. I'd say you friend is giving you nutritional mythology.
As far as colds, I recently tried Zicam at the onset of symptoms and I never got a full cold.

Ron

[SoxFan11]

Hey Ron-
Again, thanks for all your advice. I wonder what your thoughts are on coconut oil.

Justin

[Ron Noreman]

Hey Ron-
Again, thanks for all your advice. I wonder what your thoughts are on coconut oil.

Justin

Coconut Oil- another oil that I introduced to the bodybuilding world (in addition to Macadamia Nut oil). Tastes great on oatmeal. Coconut oil is VERY stable fat that withstands reasonable heat very well without becoming unhealthy. That said it is a highly saturated fat which MAY have some negitive effect on blood lipids. All the old studies about this oil used hydrogenated, trans-fatty acid laden fat which was undoubtedly bad for your cardiovascular health. Cold pressed virgin coconut oil is far healthier. It has a high proportion of fast metabolizing Medium Chain Triglycerides which provide energy quicker than other fats but slower than most carbs.
Its ok to use in limited quanties for a few months but I have seen no solid data on its supposed weight loss attributes. I know there are a few books talking about all its benefits but they are , lets say, not unbiased.

Ron

[john koenig]

Ron, if leucine is such a wonderful single amino acid to supplement with, why was not one supplement company at the Arnold Expo selling it? The only outlet I've found for it is Biotest, which is where I've been purchasing it. Is it real or is it hype?

[Bubba Bronko]

Whats your take on milk? The carbs I know are low on the GI but from my research and reading isnt milk high on the insulin index? Will milk actually rapidly spike my insulin even though it doesnt spike blood sugar levels? And if thats true would it be better to take my protein with milk in the AM and post work out or should i stick with a simple carb? Also that being said how much will milk promote groth since it contains IGF-1?

[Metroflexplano]

Ron

What's your take on INTRA workout nutrition? Milos has his guys consuming upwards of 100-200g of carbs with bcaa's, dave seems to have his guys just drinking water and getting all the needed nutrients in their pre and post work out drinks...

Also straight waxy maize versus processed waxy maize (vitargo, karbolyn). There seems to be three sides to this debate. 1) Waxy maize produces enough of an insulin spike to drive nutrients into the muscle post workout 2) Processed waxy maize is far superior in creating a insuling spike, and the carbs require no digestion 3) unless you are consuming over a 100 carbs post workout you are just splitting hairs between the two and maltodextrin is just as effective

Thanks for all the great info, I look forward to reading this thread

[Metroflexplano]

*correction

Karbolyn is processed potato starch not corn starch, but performs the same as vitargo so I guess for my question they could be lumped together as just "processed carbs"

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, if leucine is such a wonderful single amino acid to supplement with, why was not one supplement company at the Arnold Expo selling it? The only outlet I've found for it is Biotest, which is where I've been purchasing it. Is it real or is it hype?

Leucine is probably the most interesting amino as of the latest research. Good Leucine is expensive and therefore manufacturers stay away from it as the profit margin is not too great. Try Ajinomoto for bulk pharacy quality leucine. Beware- it ain't cheap-$324 per kilo. 5 grams prior to the workout -5 to 10 grams after. That said, a quality whey protein is high in all branch chain aminos, including leucine but it is the icing on the cake for a real high tech program. Don't forget the cake is 97% and the icing is 3% so if cost is a factor, skip it.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Ron

What's your take on INTRA workout nutrition? Milos has his guys consuming upwards of 100-200g of carbs with bcaa's, dave seems to have his guys just drinking water and getting all the needed nutrients in their pre and post work out drinks...

Also straight waxy maize versus processed waxy maize (vitargo, karbolyn). There seems to be three sides to this debate. 1) Waxy maize produces enough of an insulin spike to drive nutrients into the muscle post workout 2) Processed waxy maize is far superior in creating a insuling spike, and the carbs require no digestion 3) unless you are consuming over a 100 carbs post workout you are just splitting hairs between the two and maltodextrin is just as effective

Thanks for all the great info, I look forward to reading this thread


I am not a huge fan of carb drinks. THERE IS NO SCIENCE AS TO THEIR SUPERIORITY TO OTHER HIGH GLYCEMIC CARB SOURCES. TOO MANY BODYBUILDERS LEARN NUTRITION FROM THE ADS OF SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES. SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES CANNOT SELL STEAMED WHITE RICE OR A WHITE FLOUR BAGEL.
So here's the real deal-carb drinks are often so highly glycemic and absorbed so quickly that one gets rebound hypoglycemia. That means that you get an initial insulin rush but you secrete so much of it that your blood sugar dips so low 45 minutes to an hour later, that you get lightheaded ,cold sweats etc. Not a great condition in which to grow.
AGAIN, WE HAVE ALL BEEN CONDITIONED FROM THE ADS OF SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES TO BELIEVE THAT THE HIGHER THE GLYCEMIC INDEX OF A POST WORKOUT CARB THE BETTER! WE HAVE ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT IF THE STOMACH CAN'T ABSORB THE CARBS IN 3 SECONDS THAT WE WILL FALL INTO A DEADLY STATE OF CATABOLIC COMA (I'm kidding to make a point).
FURTHER, THERE IS NO (NONE ,ZERO!!!!!) SCIENTIFIC EVEDENCE THAT A CARB WITH A 100 GLYCEMIC INDEX WILL CREAT A MORE ANABOLIC POST WORKOUT ENVIRONMENT THAN A 82 INDEXED CARB. SHOW ME ONE STUDY THAT COMPARES ANY CARB DRINK TO WHITE RICE.
All that said, carb drinks have some place in a bodybuilders program. If you are a person who cannot eat without getting nauseous or if you have no appetite after working out, a carb drink is for you. Simply sipp it slowly over 15 minutes (along with a whey shake) but be prepared to eat solid food within 45 minutes to an hour later.

Ron

[john koenig]

Ron, thanks for your leucine information. I'm curious about only using it pre-and post-workout. So the hype about taking it with meals to increase the absorption of the protein in food is just that - hype? I've not been using leucine around workouts; I'll begin that on Tuesday and see how (and if) it affects things.

Kudos also to you regarding your "super high glycemic" post-workout drink question. Those who dislike Waxy Maize and are Vitargo supporters remind me of the old "HIT vs everybody else" arguments on misc.fitness.weights years ago. There can be science tidbits set up to support many arguments, but as you point out, we're nit-picking here. Just like with leucine, it's the icing on the cake at best. I agree with you that a carb post-workout needs to hang in the system for a while; this is why Dave Palumbo suggests a fish oil capsule or two with the post-workout shake, or a bit of macadamia nut oil. Makes sense to me.

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, thanks for your leucine information. I'm curious about only using it pre-and post-workout. So the hype about taking it with meals to increase the absorption of the protein in food is just that - hype? I've not been using leucine around workouts; I'll begin that on Tuesday and see how (and if) it affects things.

Kudos also to you regarding your "super high glycemic" post-workout drink question. Those who dislike Waxy Maize and are Vitargo supporters remind me of the old "HIT vs everybody else" arguments on misc.fitness.weights years ago. There can be science tidbits set up to support many arguments, but as you point out, we're nit-picking here. Just like with leucine, it's the icing on the cake at best. I agree with you that a carb post-workout needs to hang in the system for a while; this is why Dave Palumbo suggests a fish oil capsule or two with the post-workout shake, or a bit of macadamia nut oil. Makes sense to me.

Hey John,

I like the way you think and you obviously have an open mind. We all, and I certainly include myself, must be students and learning is a life-long goal.
OK- Leucine does not help you utilize aminos. Its benefit is that it provides signals for growth (anabolic reactions). Workouts also provide this signal.
Combine the two and you get a bigger signal. Its that simple.
Post workout drink- sorry to keep busting on the drinks but why take a fat to reduce the glycemic reaction and slow the absorbtion of a drink when the advertised benefit of the drinks are their high glycemic index and their quick absorbtion. Unless you have no post-workout appetite eat some carbs.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Whats your take on milk? The carbs I know are low on the GI but from my research and reading isnt milk high on the insulin index? Will milk actually rapidly spike my insulin even though it doesnt spike blood sugar levels? And if thats true would it be better to take my protein with milk in the AM and post work out or should i stick with a simple carb? Also that being said how much will milk promote groth since it contains IGF-1?

"Milk is for babies" was a quote from Arnold in Pumping Iron. Seriously, it is a low tech way to get protein and carbs and should not be part of your post workout plan unless you have no money for supplements or if you live in the hills of Afganistan (and therefore have no access to supplements and subsist on goat). IGF-1 in milk does not survive digestion.

Ron

[Joshua H]

In your mind what is the protein, carb and fat source based ingredients you would include in a whole food meal replacement shake for an offseason bodybuilder? Amounts being negligable what are the prime sources you would use Ron?

[NPCKnight]

First of all I have never heard Dave suggest a couple fish oil pills or Mac nut oil POST workout. Pre workout I have seen him suggest Mac Nut Oil.

Secondly....Ajinomoto is the shit from everything I have seen and heard. Props for suggesting them. It is also the company Milos uses for his products. Can you please explain about something Milos said? He said almost all BCAA on the market are of relatively low quality and made from human hair?

[NPCKnight]

*correction

Karbolyn is processed potato starch not corn starch, but performs the same as vitargo so I guess for my question they could be lumped together as just "processed carbs"

you do not know that Karbolyn performs the same as Vitargo. Where did that come from?

[Ron Noreman]

First of all I have never heard Dave suggest a couple fish oil pills or Mac nut oil POST workout. Pre workout I have seen him suggest Mac Nut Oil.

Secondly....Ajinomoto is the shit from everything I have seen and heard. Props for suggesting them. It is also the company Milos uses for his products. Can you please explain about something Milos said? He said almost all BCAA on the market are of relatively low quality and made from human hair?

Thanks for the props on Ajinomoto. It is not a bodybuilding source generally, but instead a place where researchers get raw aminos. Contrary to what we may think, bodybuilders don't generally have the best information or connections.
Dave has advocated using Mac Oil to slow down the absorbtion of waxy maise post workout (he's said it to me personally). I just don't agree with the logic. Dave and I generally agree on 95% of issues. Two strong minded and may I say, ultra-intelligent guys agreeing 95% of the time is pretty damn good.

Ron

[NPCKnight]

You didnt answer if you know anything about aminos being derived from human hair?

Are you affiliated with Ajino in any way? -said to NOT be derived from human hair btw.

Ron please check again with Dave....
He is a strong advocate of some oil PRE workout...but post workout he says no fats...at least this is what he says publicly. Double check for me because I think you and he may have misunderstood eachother?

[john koenig]

I wish I could remember where Dave said it; perhaps it was on one of the SuperHuman radio shows he did with Carl Lanore, where they discussed the ketogenic diet. This is one of those things buried in the back of my head; I know Dave said it but I cannot remember where I heard him say it.

[Ron Noreman]

You didnt answer if you know anything about aminos being derived from human hair?

Are you affiliated with Ajino in any way? -said to NOT be derived from human hair btw.

Ron please check again with Dave....
He is a strong advocate of some oil PRE workout...but post workout he says no fats...at least this is what he says publicly. Double check for me because I think you and he may have misunderstood eachother?


Having done extensive investigations I have recently discovered that Aminos are in fact made from human pubic hair! The cheap ones come from the pubic areas of fat middle aged men. The expensive ones come come from hot chicks and porn stars cleaning up their "areas".
Just kidding!!

I have found nothing that leads me to believe that hair, human or other, is used in the manufacture of aminos.
As far as being affiliated with Anjo- I am a Partner in a CPA firm so I'm not affiliated with anyone.

I will check with Dave- what you said above is his general concept however if one experiences "rebound hypoglycemia" as a result of using fast acting carb drinks, Dave did tell me personally, to slow the drink down with a tablespoon of Mac oil even postworkout.

Ron

[Iron Muscle]

Ron, what is your take on incorporating heavy whipping cream when not in dieting mode, are there any benefits from it to grow

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, what is your take on incorporating heavy whipping cream when not in dieting mode, are there any benefits from it to grow

Unless we are talking about licking the whipped cream off a hot chick's bodyparts, I see no point.
Heavy cream was a throw-back to the 1960's with Rheo Blair (the inventor of the first quality protein supplement) and Vince Gironda (the famous trainer in Hollywood). Its use in shakes was recommended for weight gain (it has a lot of calories) and weight loss (when used as part of a low carb diet as it is low in carbs but high in fat).
With what we have learned since the 60's about fats and blood lipids, why not use Mac oil in shakes (which is rich in healthy monounsaturates) instead of potentially harmful saturated fat filled heavy cream. Raw almond butter is also unbelievable as part of a shake.

Ron

[Outside Backer]

Ron whats your take on DHEA

Im 30 and I know DHEA levels decline with age. I was curious as to if and when you should start a low dosage DHEA regimine

[john koenig]

Heavy cream... wow, that's nostalgic. Takes me back to when swallowing 100 dessicated liver tablets each day was the protocol, too. Tom Platz used to drink Coke to keep his calorie count up; I know a World's Strongest Man top-10 competitor who drinks Kool-Aid in quantity to get in calories, and he's not at all fat. Anyone who can do either of these things, or use heavy cream, has a crazy metabolism and isn't worried about their health. Like Ron suggests, mac oil or peanut butter is wonderful (I haven't found raw almond butter locally yet).

[Ron Noreman]

Ron whats your take on DHEA

Im 30 and I know DHEA levels decline with age. I was curious as to if and when you should start a low dosage DHEA regimine

I'd like to think that I know a huge amount about nutrition (may I say 'ALMOST" everything useful) but DHEA is getting into the area of hormones. I have general knowledge but not sufficient to be an expert. On topics I know well, I have a lot to say. Ones I know less about, I'm a great listener when the topic interests me. This is a great Dave P question.

Ron

[Outside Backer]

I appreciate your honesty thank you

[orhochris]

could you explain what it is about high fructose corn syrup that is so deliterious for the human body. Thanks

and of the creatines... why is creapure so much better? it seems like all the stuff they have on their website is just selling their own product as better than the competition just like everybody else.

[Metroflexplano]

you do not know that Karbolyn performs the same as Vitargo. Where did that come from?

It came from the guy that once produced Vitargo and now produces Karbolyn

They are very very similar

[redline777]

HMB- compared to Anavar in Muscle Media 2000. A lot of hype about it in the mid 90s. In reality, there are no consistant studies about the effectiveness of HMB. Some say it prevents muscle breakdown during dieting. I'm not a big fan of that line of reasoning. If something is not strong enough to help build you up in times of plentiful calories, you can bet it isn't strong enough to help you keep mass on the way down.
Save your money. Buy a good multivitamin/mineral instead and take care of your baseline nutrition.
I am amazed how many bodybuilders don't use a multi.
If you are on this thread, let me know if you use a multi: why or why not; and what brand.

Ron


i always use a multi from Body science. well rounded and in high potency form.i always perform my daily task better when i'm on them, once i stop taking them for 3 days or more, i just feel a little strange. i always consume them with my fattiest meals to maximise its absorption.

[redline777]

how much fish oil and EPO is ideal per day? is it 5g ? can more be counter productive?

[redline777]

are all fish oils the same? i'm little low on $$$ so get the cheapest brand. but theres another brand that is local A grade and free of environmental toxins, mercury etc... but is WAYY expensive. which should i get?

[trainwinn]

Ron, I see you that you said Almond butter is much better than Natural Peanut butter. My question is what makes it a better source and what are the benefits of using it over using Natural Peanut butter? Also, how will this translate towards helping me with my muscle gaining goals?

[trainwinn]

Ron, in your opinion which is better, Waxy Maize or Vitargo for muscle gaining purposes. Also, how would you use these in your mass gaining diet for best benefit?

[trainwinn]

Ron, what source of meat would you tend to rely on, preferably a steak option, for gaining the most mass, price not being a factor? Also, how many times per day would you see eating red meat as beneficial?

[redline777]

Ron, in your opinion which is better, Waxy Maize or Vitargo for muscle gaining purposes. Also, how would you use these in your mass gaining diet for best benefit?

vitago S2 is the real deal ! look in bodybuilding.com and type in anthony almada in the search box. he explains it better. its all in the "extraction" process and he describes the "molecular hand" print.

[Ron Noreman]

could you explain what it is about high fructose corn syrup that is so deliterious for the human body. Thanks

and of the creatines... why is creapure so much better? it seems like all the stuff they have on their website is just selling their own product as better than the competition just like everybody else.


Real quick because its the last week of tax season:

HFCS raises blood triglicerides and LDL (the bad cholesterol) more than other sweeteners.

99% of all research has been done on simple -cheap creatine monohydrate. Thats what you should use with some carbs. Its really that simple.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

how much fish oil and EPO is ideal per day? is it 5g ? can more be counter productive?

4 to 5 grams of each works best unless you have some health condition.
Too much fish oil- 10 grams a day can slow growth as it MAY inhibit some of the inflamitory response that training causes. This temporary inflamation helps signal the body to increase muscle hypertrophy.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

are all fish oils the same? i'm little low on $$$ so get the cheapest brand. but theres another brand that is local A grade and free of environmental toxins, mercury etc... but is WAYY expensive. which should i get?

Never buy cheap fish oil. It could be rancid (spoiled) or have high levels of toxins. Only molecularly distilled purified and tested fish oil should go in your mouth.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, I see you that you said Almond butter is much better than Natural Peanut butter. My question is what makes it a better source and what are the benefits of using it over using Natural Peanut butter? Also, how will this translate towards helping me with my muscle gaining goals?

Peanut butter is made from ROASTED peanuts. All heat changes fatty acids for the worse. Previously healthy Fats heated excessively become unhealthy.
Raw almond butter is not heated. Almond oil has a better fatty acid profile than peanut oil to begin with.Further almonds have more nutrients than peanuts so any way you look at it raw almonds or butter made fron them is the real deal.
In the LONG-TERM anything good for your health enhances your muscle building goals. Todays bodybuilders just don't get this concept which is THE MOST IMPORTANT CONCEPT IN ALL OF NUTRITION-INCLUDING BODYBUILDING NUTRITION.

Ron

[Ron Noreman]

Ron, what source of meat would you tend to rely on, preferably a steak option, for gaining the most mass, price not being a factor? Also, how many times per day would you see eating red meat as beneficial?

No time for a detailed answer but look up "grass fed beef" on the internet. It is the BOMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ron Noreman]

vitago S2 is the real deal ! look in bodybuilding.com and type in anthony almada in the search box. he explains it better. its all in the "extraction" process and he describes the "molecular hand" print.


All bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read what I wrote about carb supplements earlier in my thread. Eat white rice post workout and save your money.

Ron

[redline777]

4 to 5 grams of each works best unless you have some health condition.
Too much fish oil- 10 grams a day can slow growth as it MAY inhibit some of the inflamitory response that training causes. This temporary inflamation helps signal the body to increase muscle hypertrophy.

Ron


shit!!! :D good call Ron, forgot about that :beerbang:

[redline777]

Ron ,do u think its a waste of money buying BCAA?? and if not, wouldnt it be more wise to take in EAA instead of only the 3 BCAA which lacks the other 6 EAA.

[Big ER]

Hey Ron,

What is your take on:

1. Whole food supplements such as Juice Plus, Berry Greens

2. using/ drinking eggwhites i.e. eggology, eggwhites intl in protein shakes.

Thanks in advance

[kratos47]

i know u already talked about milk on here. but how do u feel about say 1 cup of lowfat milk with protien shakes around your pre and post workout. would it slow the intake of the protien or have any other negitive effects on absorbtion? and how do u feel about low fat cottage cheese i ususally like to have it before bed cause its easy on my stomach and digests slowly? is it an inadiquate form or protien?

[orhochris]

Never buy cheap fish oil. It could be rancid (spoiled) or have high levels of toxins. Only molecularly distilled purified and tested fish oil should go in your mouth.

Ron


how do you know which fish oils possess these qualities???

[thepump]

lots of members to my gym ask me how to keep from having the shits from using it?

they say even if they just cook with it. that it will give them the shits?

they say they know it is that for sure when they stop using it every thing went back to normal. ???:confused:

should they do somthing diffrent stop using or add somthing with it to keep that under control..

[Mike the Ripper]

lots of members to my gym ask me how to keep from having the shits from using it?

they say even if they just cook with it. that it will give them the shits?

they say they know it is that for sure when they stop using it every thing went back to normal. ???:confused:

should they do somthing diffrent stop using or add somthing with it to keep that under control..

Are you talking about fish oil?

[sam the man]

i just say " a legend in making'

[kratos47]

anyone know where ron is?

[Gothic Muscle]

anyone know where ron is?

x2? Been a long time lurker on this for while hoping Ron would post up the streetsmart fat article he mentioned. Would love to know a more 'plain english' approach to fat intake as a lot of noise is being made about fats these days with the glut of low carb/keto/ckd/tkd diets that are out!! From what I've read so far I really think Ron has a lot to offer in this area!

[BojanN]

how much white rice would u take and when exactly, i know PWO but i dont bring rice to my gym :p
so how much would u say id have to take and when exactly oh and how :)
do i just eat the rice then have my shake?

maybe this helps with how much rice i need to take. im 70 kgs and got a low bf %

[BojanN]

oh sorry one last thing ... after eating the rice and drinking the shake, when should i eat a whole food meal ?
i usually have a whey pwo and 50 minutes later i have a proper meal

[Cogrick2]

I am also following this thread. Thank you for the information, Ron.

[Big ER]

anyone know where ron is?

He is a tax man, this is the dreaded month.

[john koenig]

Ron, where have you gone? Did the tax season cause you to crash and burn? We miss you!

[fits]

Hello Ron

A couple of questions, nice to see you here by the way..

1) You mentioned the Golden years of Blair ad Gironda. DO you think they may have been onto something? I know we have made advace's in nutrition but together they helped make some big, SHREDDED guys!! - Do you think the fats they had may have helpped? I know we have more ifo abotu good ad bad fats these days but there was an interesting article in MD about a study that was done where strength and size increases seemed directly linked with saturated fat itake and not protein......any thoughts?


2) I have read about too many fish oils possibly being coutner productive, but what do you think about poliquin, who is respected buy may, who says he has used up to 45g of EFA per day with some athelets, which has seen gains of.......lbs ad lbs (I forget the umber, it was something massive like 20 something lbs) of muscle in a month, and he says that if you want to add muscle AND burn fat then high dose EFA are a MUST!

[Ron Noreman]

He is a tax man, this is the dreaded month.

hI EVERYONE- I WENT FROM TAX SEASON DIRECTLY INTO GETTING READY FOR THE NPC ATLANTIC STATES (MASTERS AND MAYBE OPEN SUPERHEAVIES) TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE MASTERS NATIONALS. I'VE HAD MY HANDS FULL TO SAY THE LEAST BUT I WILL BE BACK AND CATCH UP WITH ALL YOUR NUTRITIONAL CONCERNS.
UNTIL THEN, BE WELL.

RON

[Gothic Muscle]

Coolio!! Good luck sir, hope u place well!

[john koenig]

Glad to know you survived the tax deadline, Ron. Were you dieting while preparing all those tax returns and working humongous hours? Good luck with your contests...! Looking forward to you returning here.

[apex23]

Are their any specific fats that help controls asthma? I have read that Fish OIL is good for it, but never saw any kind of difference.

[darb1]

Hey Ron,

I'm an accountant with my first job out of college and was looking into deducting bodybuilding expenses (workout clothes, supplements, etc.) as a hobby loss. Can you provide any insight on this idea?

[redline777]

wheres Ron?

[nenadns]

Hey Ron,could u explain the difference between whey protein concentrate and isolate?Also im curious about whey hydrolisate...is it completly predigested and instantly absorbable into blood stream or it has to be digested?And if so for how long?

[Costco77]

Ron, I was curious to hear what you think about fast digesting proteins for post workout such as: Hydrolyzed Whey, Hydrolyzed Caseinate (peptopro supposedly the fastest). Is it that important to get the fastest protein post-workout? or is Whey Isolate just as good in the long run? Peptopro is quite expensive, so just wondering if it's worth it?

Thanks Ron

[tadung]

Hi all, nice to see you all here.
Hope that i can learn something interesting in this forum

Have fun
Vitamin key code (http://www.buyvitaminsmart.com/vitamin-supplements-stores/GNC.com/)

[Dre23]

wow, what happened to ron and everybody else on this thread?

[statenis33]

bring ron back...this was an interesting thread to say the least

[Mr.Dedication]

HMB- compared to Anavar in Muscle Media 2000. A lot of hype about it in the mid 90s. In reality, there are no consistant studies about the effectiveness of HMB. Some say it prevents muscle breakdown during dieting. I'm not a big fan of that line of reasoning. If something is not strong enough to help build you up in times of plentiful calories, you can bet it isn't strong enough to help you keep mass on the way down.
Save your money. Buy a good multivitamin/mineral instead and take care of your baseline nutrition.
I am amazed how many bodybuilders don't use a multi.
If you are on this thread, let me know if you use a multi: why or why not; and what brand.

Ron

I use to use them but then I stopped for a while...no reason why other than I just became super busy and started slacking.

ATM though I've been using multi for about 2 months.

But Ron where do you stand on using only cissus compare to other joint supplements?

[the bull eso]

Ron needs to make a comeback in this thread! He has so much knowledge to share