Clen, anti-estrogens and T-3 for women

[DR.BB]

My wife has returned to the gym after a long layoff. She is 39 and natural but is very curious about T3, clen and possibly an anti-estrogen. Can some of you briefly discuss what works best for fat loss and the side effects? Is there a good book or article on how these compunds impact women who train?

[sassy69]

My wife has returned to the gym after a long layoff. She is 39 and natural but is very curious about T3, clen and possibly an anti-estrogen. Can some of you briefly discuss what works best for fat loss and the side effects? Is there a good book or article on how these compunds impact women who train?


1. Diet
2. Training

"After a long lay-off" - I understand she may be interested in this stuff, but honestly, drugs are the LAST place she should be looking until she's been in the gym for at least another year. And btw, there is NO NEED to be messing w/ "anti-estrogens". Those are NOT a fat-loss protocol for someone who is just looking to "lose weight".

[machine]

1. Diet
2. Training

"After a long lay-off" - I understand she may be interested in this stuff, but honestly, drugs are the LAST place she should be looking until she's been in the gym for at least another year. And btw, there is NO NEED to be messing w/ "anti-estrogens". Those are NOT a fat-loss protocol for someone who is just looking to "lose weight".


x2
Have her train and clean up her diet, see what happens in 6 months. She doesnt plan on doing a figure show anytime soon does she?

[DR.BB]

Of course she will train for some time before messing with anything (if at all!) and we are just starting to do some research. I thought it would be helpful to hear from those w/ experience. I have been training consistently for over 20 years and have a good idea when to take the plunge into pharmaceticals. I was just hoping to hear opinions on what worked for people, what are the sides they expereinced vs. what the literature might say.

[sassy69]

Clen + T3 is a pretty common stack that people like.

Please see the other threads on "anti-estrogens" - nolvadex is the only one, as a SERM that would be useful if she's not running any exogenous test that aromatizes. But nolvadex, as I noted above is NOT a maintenance protocol - it should really only be used if you have a specific end date / goal in mind, i.e. a competition, because you can't stay on it forever and once you come off, you have to expect to rebound. So it just really shouldn't be included as a part of a "fat loss program". You're better off working on establishing & optimizing a consistent diet & training program.

[Suzanne]

I personally will never use t3 not worth the risk to thyroid and unnecessary

[tammyp]

i think t3 is fine as long as its lower doses for short term.

[Tatyana]

I really think that these drugs are over-rated for a lifestyle physique, in fact, I think they can backfire.

For comp prep, fantastic.

Clen loses it's effectiveness after 3 weeks, and I am not convinced that taurine and all the other bro-ology methods actually work to stop the up-regulation of the receptors.

A lot of people can't tolerate clen either, it gives them the jitters.

I have experience with thyroxine and T3 as I am hypothyroid.

Again, T3 has a few issues, I think the dose has to be quite high for it to be effective, and high doses of T3 can mimic hyperthyroidism. Some of the common sides of T3 are a faster heart rate, diarrhoea, hair loss, anxiety, heart palpitations, sleeplessness, breathlessness.

I had a few of these while my GP and I were experimenting with my correct dose, they really were not that much fun at all.

Some people wil have fewer sides, while some will really suffer.

As far as anti-oestrogens go, they aren't going to do any favours to her bone health, they can precipitate early menopause, and oestrogen is also cardio and brain protective.

It does seem more women tolerate something like an ECA stack better.

The issue with all fat burners, whether or not they are pharma or OTC, there is always rebound when you come off.

The high doses of caffeine isn't great either as it can mess with the whole cortisol-insulin thing and have more fat deposit around the middle, which also becomes more of an issue for older women.

[Tatyana]

I personally will never use t3 not worth the risk to thyroid and unnecessary

People have recovered from being put on thyroid meds accidentally, even after a year, however, the typical clinical dose is less than the BBing dose.

However, women are more likely to develop thyroid disease, and the risk is higher when they are in their 40s+.

[DR.BB]

Thank you for the responses. And, Sassy your caution about anti-estrogens was most helpful. I've taken T3 without any harsh sides, but was careful. As Tatyana says, using T3 does not translate into an automatic shut down of natural production. I pasted a study below that shows recovery of thyroid function. I'd be real curious to hear about folks who used T3 and if there was a rebound, etc.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/14/681

[Suzanne]

People have recovered from being put on thyroid meds accidentally, even after a year, however, the typical clinical dose is less than the BBing dose.

However, women are more likely to develop thyroid disease, and the risk is higher when they are in their 40s+.

For me just not worth the risk i already had to fix a metab f-ed by a trainer

And you just don't need it

Also it burns fat AND muscle

I find that the people who use t3 tend to have the more drawn face on stage

[Tatyana]

Thank you for the responses. And, Sassy your caution about anti-estrogens was most helpful. I've taken T3 without any harsh sides, but was careful. As Tatyana says, using T3 does not translate into an automatic shut down of natural production. I pasted a study below that shows recovery of thyroid function. I'd be real curious to hear about folks who used T3 and if there was a rebound, etc.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/14/681 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/14/681)

T3 is more likely to suppress natural production than T4, especially at the doses that people use for fat loss.

The thyroid will recover (in most cases where there isn't a pre-existing condition etc.), however, you will have a sluggish thryoid gland for three to six weeks.

Most people end up putting on weight again during this period.

[tammyp]

i personally am in love with a liquid clen/yohimbe cocktail .. my hr for cardio is about 15 to 20 bpm higher than w/o it. i used tab clen this weekend for travel and it didnt even compare.