milos theory (pre,during,post) shakes

[spiderman]

What do you guys think about Milos' theory on pre,during and post shakes.

is it a great scientific truth

or just hype?


philosophy: all your blood is rushing into the muscles when working out. This is the time when your muscles have the most blood in them. Take advantage of this time and make sure you have immediated anabolic nutrients in the blood so that when they rush to the muscles the nutrients will be shuttled right into the cells.

the shake is a mix of certain immediate amino acids and sugars to spike the insulin to shuttle the aminos into the cell.

it sound like a great idea.

is there anyone that can scientifically explain why this would not be an amazing advantage to build muscle?

[buster12]

I think milos explained it pretty well...

[spiderman]

I think milos explained it pretty well...

yes Milos does explain it very well.

Did you read my questions?

is your opinion that it is a great idea? are you just taking his word for it? Have you done any research into it?

[AmyLynn]

Milos certainly has proof that it works...just check out what he did for Silvio Samuel

[Aaron Singerman]

1 hour with Milos... Link Below....

[indianamonster1986]

then again check out what he did with DJ and Hidetada and their guts they had with him. And silvio looked better after he left him too.

[Aaron Singerman]

maybe but there is no doubt that they put on muscle tissue while training with Milos... Look at Silvio's before and after pics... That muscle is still there.

[spiderman]

1 hour with Milos... Link Below....

yeah i listened to it already. I have read his articles and shake methods for the past 3 years. i just never actually tried it consistantly to see how my body reacted to it.

i was thinking about supplementing this into my routine again. i understand the theory and science behind it.

i was wanting intelligent opinions from people who have actually applied this to themselves and gotten great results or a science guru that can dispute this theory....

i wonder what Dr. scott connelly, Dave Palumbo, david barr etc etc would say about this philosophy............

[indianamonster1986]

maybe but there is no doubt that they put on muscle tissue while training with Milos... Look at Silvio's before and after pics... That muscle is still there.

Agreed!

[indianamonster1986]

looks like flex showed Silvio the ol' synthol in bicep trick for the Ironman while he was prepping him.

[Mike Marcano]

I thought Charles Glass prepped Silvio?

[Aaron Singerman]

I thought Charles Glass prepped Silvio?

He does now... Milos and Silvio had a falling out...

[Aaron Singerman]

yeah i listened to it already. I have read his articles and shake methods for the past 3 years. i just never actually tried it consistantly to see how my body reacted to it.

i was thinking about supplementing this into my routine again. i understand the theory and science behind it.

i was wanting intelligent opinions from people who have actually applied this to themselves and gotten great results or a science guru that can dispute this theory....

i wonder what Dr. scott connelly, Dave Palumbo, david barr etc etc would say about this philosophy............


I would be VERY interested to hear Dr. Connelly's opinion on Milos's theories... I would LOVE to have them both on OFF TOPIC at the same time. I'm sure Milos would do it, but Dr. Connelly, I'm not so sure.

[Bigsteak]

I would be VERY interested to hear Dr. Connelly's opinion on Milos's theories... I would LOVE to have them both on OFF TOPIC at the same time. I'm sure Milos would do it, but Dr. Connelly, I'm not so sure.
Aaron I know you use Milos protocol and you started a thread on that other forum, I can't remember the name of it,lol. Can you post what you are currently taking supp wise pre/intra/post. Thx.

[Jeff The Producer]

You guys can get the answer straight from Milos here at RXMUSCLE -> Milos Sarcev Q&A (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=483)

[Mike Marcano]

He does now... Milos and Silvio had a falling out...
Thanks Aaron, but I was commenting how how someone said FLex showed him how to use synthol while HE was prepping Silvio....the poster made it seem as though Flex was his prep guy.

[Chris the Swede]

What do you guys think about Milos' theory on pre,during and post shakes.

is it a great scientific truth

or just hype?


philosophy: all your blood is rushing into the muscles when working out. This is the time when your muscles have the most blood in them. Take advantage of this time and make sure you have immediated anabolic nutrients in the blood so that when they rush to the muscles the nutrients will be shuttled right into the cells.

the shake is a mix of certain immediate amino acids and sugars to spike the insulin to shuttle the aminos into the cell.

it sound like a great idea.

is there anyone that can scientifically explain why this would not be an amazing advantage to build muscle?

I did that for a couple of months this autumn, strengt and weight got up, but I did get fat as well. Now I didn´t use any exogenous insulin, I just tried to boost my own. I really do believe in Milos ideas, the are logical! But for me it was just to much carbohydrates during a limited space of time, my stomach felt bloated during workout.

[spiderman]

I did that for a couple of months this autumn, strengt and weight got up, but I did get fat as well. Now I didn´t use any exogenous insulin, I just tried to boost my own. I really do believe in Milos ideas, the are logical! But for me it was just to much carbohydrates during a limited space of time, my stomach felt bloated during workout.

o.k. thanks. Yeah i was thinking 150 grams of sugar within 3 hours might be overkill. i was thinking about doing a during workout shake only and see what happens from that.

[militantmuscle]

The supplement dosages will have to be catered to the individual. Different guys will have different carbohydrate requirements/thresholds.

I like Milos' theories, the only thing I was kind of skeptical about was his giant set training I saw one time on bodybuillding.com, it seems like there would be a lot of overtraining and neurotransmitter depletion going on, resulting in less optimal muscle contractions.

[flexingtonsteele]

What do you guys think about Milos' theory on pre,during and post shakes.

is it a great scientific truth

or just hype?


philosophy: all your blood is rushing into the muscles when working out. This is the time when your muscles have the most blood in them. Take advantage of this time and make sure you have immediated anabolic nutrients in the blood so that when they rush to the muscles the nutrients will be shuttled right into the cells.

the shake is a mix of certain immediate amino acids and sugars to spike the insulin to shuttle the aminos into the cell.

it sound like a great idea.

is there anyone that can scientifically explain why this would not be an amazing advantage to build muscle?


you'll never know til u try it out yourself. It might work great for one person but not for another.

obviously milos has had some success with this method ( dennis wolf, hide yamagishi, silvio samuel, johnny jackson etc etc )

so try it out then give us all a report on it.

go on, get on your way, and dont post again til you've been on milos' protocol for atleast 2 weeks.

[A-Maxx]

The supplement dosages will have to be catered to the individual. Different guys will have different carbohydrate requirements/thresholds.

I like Milos' theories, the only thing I was kind of skeptical about was his giant set training I saw one time on bodybuillding.com, it seems like there would be a lot of overtraining and neurotransmitter depletion going on, resulting in less optimal muscle contractions.


same here...his giant sets were crazy and seem to deplete and/or overtrain the athlete

i remember seeing a wolf chest giant set designed by Milos..and it was literally like 10 different exercises

[NPCKnight]

Milos theories work. I tried it to a T 2 yrs ago and it worked wonders. I have tried many different kinds of versions and using it with Vitargo worked. Now I will try Gatorade with KNS. Milos methods work. Only thing I havent tried is exogenous slin.

[spiderman]

you'll never know til u try it out yourself. It might work great for one person but not for another.

obviously milos has had some success with this method ( dennis wolf, hide yamagishi, silvio samuel, johnny jackson etc etc )

so try it out then give us all a report on it.

go on, get on your way, and dont post again til you've been on milos' protocol for atleast 2 weeks.

well before i dive into it like that and go buy these 5 or 6 different ingredients and blend these shakes up and drink 3 of them in 2 hours..................................im trying to workout my brain a little and do some feedback Q and A's with forum members to maybe save myself some time. Thats what these site are for.

Right now i do feel like 150 grams of simple sugars on top of the other 400 grams of carbs i eat a day might be too much. I was thinking of modifying his theory and maybe doing a during workout shake.

from all the experiments ive done on myself i have realized that keeping it simple and eat 6 whole meals per day works best. But i do like to keep an open mind and try things hear and there.

my thoughts on his theory about the blood rushing to the muscles and dumping all those predigested anabolic nutrients into the blood during training........................... if you have a preworkout meal 1 to 2 hours before training wont you have these amino's and all these nutrients running through your blood anyway? isnt this the whole point of eating every 3 hours. I think our body has a steady state of aminos, sugar flowing through our body throught the day. and when it needs it during stress (workout) it can quickly turn these nutrients over to the muscles?..........

[Dee]

I think peri-workout supplementation is good in theory, but i peronally see issues with adequate absorption of shakes during your workout.....as blood would be dirverted from the GIT from during training....on NBR conolley held similar views, that supplementation during the workout isnt really significant....id take his word over milos....but they both have their merit

[txmuscle]

I did that for a couple of months this autumn, strengt and weight got up, but I did get fat as well. Now I didn´t use any exogenous insulin, I just tried to boost my own. I really do believe in Milos ideas, the are logical! But for me it was just to much carbohydrates during a limited space of time, my stomach felt bloated during workout.

I agree, I have tried doing it and all i got was a bloated feeling and no real gains from it. If anything I added fat.

[Frosty]

A couple of things I bet Milos would agree with....if you're not very lean taking in a ton of carbs isn't a good idea, and the carb content would depend on lean body mass, and also the volume of the workouts. Milos has big guys that are pretty lean doing lots of volume, so of course the carbs get used properly. A chubby 200 lb gym rat not doing anywhere near the volume for for fear of overtraining trying to take in that many carbs is a bad idea.

I think fear of overtraining is more often than not an excuse to avoid hard work over time. You don't jump right into high volume, but work your way into it over time. This gives your body the chance to adapt to it, and then you're not overtraining.

[Frosty]

I think peri-workout supplementation is good in theory, but i peronally see issues with adequate absorption of shakes during your workout.....as blood would be dirverted from the GIT from during training....on NBR conolley held similar views, that supplementation during the workout isnt really significant....id take his word over milos....but they both have their merit

At a 10% solution gastric emptying is almost the same as just water, and what digestion is required of say dextrose and amino acids? It's not going to divert a bunch of blood like a solid meal would.

[spiderman]

At a 10% solution gastric emptying is almost the same as just water, and what digestion is required of say dextrose and amino acids? It's not going to divert a bunch of blood like a solid meal would.


both your posts are good points.....

thanks

[Frosty]

BTW, I remember reading about a study that says protein synthesis from a pre-workout drink is DOUBLE that of a PWO drink of the same composition.

[spiderman]

A couple of things I bet Milos would agree with....if you're not very lean taking in a ton of carbs isn't a good idea, and the carb content would depend on lean body mass, and also the volume of the workouts. Milos has big guys that are pretty lean doing lots of volume, so of course the carbs get used properly. A chubby 200 lb gym rat not doing anywhere near the volume for for fear of overtraining trying to take in that many carbs is a bad idea.

I think fear of overtraining is more often than not an excuse to avoid hard work over time. You don't jump right into high volume, but work your way into it over time. This gives your body the chance to adapt to it, and then you're not overtraining.



so when do you think is too chubby for this...........over 10% bodyfat?

im around 10% bodyfat with plenty of muscle. or do you think you need to be leaner around 7% to get the right affect from the insulin spike?

[Frosty]

I don't know. I know Milos and Poliquin talk, and Poliquin says over 10% is fat and you shouldn't even use PWO carbs until you reach 10%. To Poliquin, using up to 200g PWO of carbs (he doesn't use pre- or during) is saved for guys that are around 6%.

Again I don't know and not saying this is what Milos believes. Just mentioning this in case it might be helpful. Perhaps this is a question to ask Milos in his Q&A thread.

[Dee]

I don't know. I know Milos and Poliquin talk, and Poliquin says over 10% is fat and you shouldn't even use PWO carbs until you reach 10%. To Poliquin, using up to 200g PWO of carbs (he doesn't use pre- or during) is saved for guys that are around 6%.

Again I don't know and not saying this is what Milos believes. Just mentioning this in case it might be helpful. Perhaps this is a question to ask Milos in his Q&A thread.

Word. from what i've read, poloquin isnt huge on carbs for everyone. and he actually wrote about milos in one of his columns saying milos himself has a pretty carb friendly metabolism and only few ppl can eat the amount of carbs he does and not put on body fat. add that to the insane volume training he does.

As per the absorption of an isotonic drink of dextrose and AA's....yeah, its faster than a meal, but i thinking about the whole process of absorption to utilization in working muscles....I can see there being issues with the efficacy of this method. And im not aruging for either post or pre workout nutrition, but that either of those would be more effective than peri-workout nutrition.

This is all theoretical rhetoric on my part, im sure studies avail that prove one is better than the other.

[Dee]

I am assuming its okay to link to other BB sites (my apologies if not)
but here is poloquin on carb tolerance and milos
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/question_of_strength_june&cr=

[MartyMcFly]

I'm assuming most of you don't take shakes during, but is it relaly necessary even if there is more blood in the muscles durign workouts. Should implement this in my daily routine?

[Frosty]

One thing is that if you drink a carb/amino drink, it's not like it's instantly in the blood. If I'm not mistaken, even pure dextrose doesn't peak for like half an hour in the blood. So why not slam this pre-workout? If your workout is an hour or less, it'll hit right in the middle at peak when blood flow should be near peak as well. Thoughts?

[Dee]

One thing is that if you drink a carb/amino drink, it's not like it's instantly in the blood. If I'm not mistaken, even pure dextrose doesn't peak for like half an hour in the blood. So why not slam this pre-workout? If your workout is an hour or less, it'll hit right in the middle at peak when blood flow should be near peak as well. Thoughts?

agree.

[PowerCoach]

Milos is the man with the core concepts involved, but keep in mind there IS a difference in what paying clients are informed and the information he releases to the general public.
I belive alot of these comments on here are valid, regarding the sheer volume of fluids/carbs consumed in a short period of time...pre/intra/post...however, I believe and implement alternative means with my clients....there are solutions around the 'volume' issue...
hint: the digestion process along with absorbtion of nutrients begins in the mouth, alowing the digestive process/volume issues to be bypassed:D.....

[spiderman]

One thing is that if you drink a carb/amino drink, it's not like it's instantly in the blood. If I'm not mistaken, even pure dextrose doesn't peak for like half an hour in the blood. So why not slam this pre-workout? If your workout is an hour or less, it'll hit right in the middle at peak when blood flow should be near peak as well. Thoughts?


Word. from what i've read, poloquin isnt huge on carbs for everyone. and he actually wrote about milos in one of his columns saying milos himself has a pretty carb friendly metabolism and only few ppl can eat the amount of carbs he does and not put on body fat. add that to the insane volume training he does.

As per the absorption of an isotonic drink of dextrose and AA's....yeah, its faster than a meal, but i thinking about the whole process of absorption to utilization in working muscles....I can see there being issues with the efficacy of this method. And im not aruging for either post or pre workout nutrition, but that either of those would be more effective than peri-workout nutrition.

This is all theoretical rhetoric on my part, im sure studies avail that prove one is better than the other.

i agree with you guys. im not gonna do all these shakes. i do have a pretty good carb tolerance myself. i do good with low protein and high carbs low fat. but from the studies ive done, if your eating every 3 hours and you go bust your butt in the gym your body is never going to be short on turning those nutrients immedietly. your body has access to immediate amino acids and glucose at all times. you have storage areas in the liver among other places. i dont think you have to be so scientific, the body is very effiecient at this stuff, especially if your eating 6 meals a day every 3 hours.