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-Z-
07-22-2009, 02:51 AM
Mike Tyson: 50-6, 44KOs

Muhammad Ali: 56-5, 37KOs

Joe Frazier: 32-4, 27KOs

Rocky Marciano: 49-0, 43KOs

Joe Louis: 65-3, 51KOs

Jack Johnson: 73-13, 40KOs

George Foreman: 76-5, 68KOs

Larry Holmes: 69-6, 44 KOs

Sonny Liston: 50-4, 39KOs

Jack Dempsey: 66-6, 51KOs

4evermuscle
07-22-2009, 02:56 AM
I'm surprised how well Tyson's numbers stack up against the rest. I forgot how dominant he was for a while before he went crazy. Just think how amazing his career COULD'VE been.

-Z-
07-22-2009, 03:03 AM
I'm surprised how well Tyson's numbers stack up against the rest. I forgot how dominant he was for a while before he went crazy. Just think how amazing his career COULD'VE been.

I thought the same, the knock against Tyson is that he never had any big fights. Ali had Foreman and Frazier and so on.

Mr Incredible
07-22-2009, 04:01 AM
Rocky Marciano is always gonna be the top guy with that record and titles

Tyson a close second to Rocky particularly when you consider he was generally outweighed

Ali I'd have third

Foreman has an amazing number of fights so 4th

Plates
07-22-2009, 09:25 AM
I'll take Ali. Im not basing it off his record alone, but for what he did for the sport. He paved the way in my opinion.

dookie
07-22-2009, 12:00 PM
ali is the best...its sad no one ever got see his prime...his last fight with foley was the fastest a heavyweight has ever been. those yrs. would of been his best..when he came back from suspension he never had that snap. in tysons era he never had any one to fight. who did he beat for the belt ? a washed up spinks. tysons team ran from holyfield.

dookie
07-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Mike Tyson: 50-6, 44KOs

Muhammad Ali: 56-5, 37KOs

Joe Frazier: 32-4, 27KOs

Rocky Marciano: 49-0, 43KOs

Joe Louis: 65-3, 51KOs

Jack Johnson: 73-13, 40KOs

George Foreman: 76-5, 68KOs

Larry Holmes: 69-6, 44 KOs

Sonny Liston: 50-4, 39KOs

Jack Dempsey: 66-6, 51KOs




if you new anything about boxing you would have jack johnson in the top 5 at least

-Z-
07-22-2009, 12:28 PM
if you new anything about boxing you would have jack johnson in the top 5 at least

If you could read you would notice I never said that was my top ten list in order.

-Z-
07-22-2009, 12:37 PM
1. Mike Tyson: 50-6, 44KOs
2. Muhammad Ali: 56-5, 37KOs
3. Rocky Marciano: 49-0, 43KOs
4. George Foreman: 76-5, 68KOs
5. Joe Louis: 65-3, 51KOs
6. Jack Dempsey: 66-6, 51KOs
7. Jack Johnson: 73-13, 40KOs
8. Sonny Liston: 50-4, 39KOs
9. Joe Frazier: 32-4, 27KOs
10. Larry Holmes: 69-6, 44 KOs



My top ten.

exit2010
07-22-2009, 01:01 PM
Rocky Marciano

dookie
07-22-2009, 01:43 PM
If you could read you would notice I never said that was my top ten list in order.

my apologies.

chitownmscle
07-22-2009, 06:52 PM
Tyson was just a beast. I'm too young to really remember any Ali or Marciano fights. Based off of what I have seen it's Tyson but Ali should probably win for his sheer domination and what he did for the sport of boxing.

It's a shame that boxing is all but dead now

-Z-
07-22-2009, 10:02 PM
It's a shame that boxing is all but dead now

Agreed

Sugan
07-22-2009, 10:34 PM
Foreman is his prime was even more devastating than was Tyson. No one lasted long with him until he got to Ali. He destroyed the Tyson of that era, Joe Frazier, with ease. Ali outsmarted him in Zaire so I say Ali was the greatest ever, even though his record was not. He simply fought for too long. For the period up until Ali, Foreman was the most formidable heavyweight ever.

Sugan
07-22-2009, 10:38 PM
I thought the same, the knock against Tyson is that he never had any big fights. Ali had Foreman and Frazier and so on.


The only big names Tyson ever fought who were in their prime were Holyfield and Lewis, and he got his ass kicked. IMO Tyson will always be less than he was because of the lack of skilled opponents. Spinks was a joke, Holmes was old, and guys like Frank Bruno and Berbrick weren't that good to begin with.

Demorak
07-26-2009, 04:58 PM
1.Foreman
2.Ali
3.Louis
4.Marciano
5.Tyson

chitownmscle
07-26-2009, 09:19 PM
The only big names Tyson ever fought who were in their prime were Holyfield and Lewis, and he got his ass kicked. IMO Tyson will always be less than he was because of the lack of skilled opponents. Spinks was a joke, Holmes was old, and guys like Frank Bruno and Berbrick weren't that good to begin with.

By the time Tyson got to Holyfield and Lewis his career was already on the downside due to all the outside influences going on. If he had never messed with Don King or any of the other knuckleheads who have destroyed boxing Tyson could have dominated like no other. He could have been solely focused on boxing

Sugan
07-26-2009, 09:24 PM
By the time Tyson got to Holyfield and Lewis his career was already on the downside due to all the outside influences going on. If he had never messed with Don King or any of the other knuckleheads who have destroyed boxing Tyson could have dominated like no other. He could have been solely focused on boxing
I disagree. He got flustered when people didn't go down and stood up to him. No game plan when guys didn't go out early. His boxing skills were alway over rated in his prime because he didn't have to use them against good opponents. Ali missed his best years due to his political stances and he came back and beat the best there was at that time - Foreman.
I do agree that King was a negative influenec but King didn't put him in jail for rape either. Tyson got rich and lazy.

chitownmscle
07-26-2009, 09:28 PM
I disagree. He got flustered when people didn't go down and stood up to him. No game plan when guys didn't go out early. His boxing skills were alway over rated in his prime because he didn't have to use them against good opponents. Ali missed his best years due to his political stances and he came back and beat the best there was at that time - Foreman.
I do agree that King was a negative influenec but King didn't put him in jail for rape either. Tyson got rich and lazy.


This is all true, Tyson had devastating knockout power. I think that had he of had the proper trainers around him his entire career though that his skills would have gotten much better. Maybe not Ali or Foreman but still good enough to be the king of Boxing of the late 80's early 90's.

King didn't put him in jail for raper but then again the only person that King has ever cared about is himself and how to make himself rich off of someone else's talent.

-Z-
07-26-2009, 09:39 PM
After Cus died Tyson had no where to go but down.

Sugan
07-26-2009, 09:44 PM
After Cus died Tyson had no where to go but down.


Same with Atlas. Teddy was a great trainer. Rooney too.

chitownmscle
07-26-2009, 09:49 PM
After Cus died Tyson had no where to go but down.

Yea, Tyson lost the only real father figure he had and King was sitting like a vulture waiting to swoop in on the kill.

-Z-
07-26-2009, 09:50 PM
Same with Atlas. Teddy was a great trainer. Rooney too.

Yep, trainers have always been underrated in solo sports.

Sugan
07-26-2009, 09:54 PM
Yep, trainers have always been underrated in solo sports.

Teddy Atlas had had enough of Mike though. Not sure about Rooney or who made the decision to drop him. Tyson apparently made inappropriate advances towards Atlas' step daughter and when Teddy found out he put a gun to Mike's head in an alley. Tyson reportedly cried and begged for his life. Tyson was a shithead before Cus died and was barely controllable. Maybe a product of a terrible childhood or just plain crazy.

-Z-
07-26-2009, 10:07 PM
I think control was always Mike's determining factor. If he was controlled and focused, unbeatable. As soon as he lost control he became very weak.

Sensei
07-27-2009, 12:29 AM
Its really a toss-up between: Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano. Its hard to dispute undefeated though!

-Z-
07-31-2009, 11:41 AM
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-Z-
07-31-2009, 11:44 AM
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-Z-
07-31-2009, 11:46 AM
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-Z-
07-31-2009, 11:50 AM
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Sugan
07-31-2009, 11:57 AM
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When We Were Kings is a great movie. Seeing Foreman hitting the heavy bag is scary.

brd
07-31-2009, 12:02 PM
Ali....

While Marciano is my favorite followed closely by Frazier, Louis, and Foreman, Ali was the man. While much is often said of his absence, I do not think the real measure can be stated. The world lost some great years from Ali whether right or wrong...I think it becomes an issue of looking at each guy in their prime and I do not think any heavyweight would have defeated Ali in his prime. And not because of the offense Ali brought to the table or the speed. No, it is due to his chin and his ability to take punshiment. When Ali got knocked down by Frazier in their first fight, there are not 5 people on this planet that would have gotten off the mat in that fight in 71. Foreman hit him with blows that could have dented a tree. Anyone remember the Acorn Earnie Shavers? He hit Ali with a right that should have killed Ali. Instead, Ali knocked him out late in the fight....
As far as I am concerned, Ali had the best chin of any fighter in the modern era and that, along with incredible speed and accuracy would have led him to victory.

The wildcard on here is Jack Johnson.....It is hard to quantify him considering the era, his lifestlye, and the absurd things he had to put up with due to his race and his diversions with anglo women. In the ring, he was a freaking terror...Also, those dudes fought outrageous rounds and with bizzare rules by modern standards. Extrapolating Johnson into the modern fight era is a tough one... Louis was of course, incredible and arguably his story the most tragic.

I think it is also important to look at the size of the heavyweight. IIRC Marciano fought in the 180's-190's range as did Dempsey. Not sure about Johnson. That is a Crusier in today's game if not a sucked down Light Heavy.

jm.02

Sugan
07-31-2009, 12:18 PM
Ali....

While Marciano is my favorite followed closely by Frazier, Louis, and Foreman, Ali was the man. While much is often said of his absence, I do not think the real measure can be stated. The world lost some great years from Ali whether right or wrong...I think it becomes an issue of looking at each guy in their prime and I do not think any heavyweight would have defeated Ali in his prime. And not because of the offense Ali brought to the table or the speed. No, it is due to his chin and his ability to take punshiment. When Ali got knocked down by Frazier in their first fight, there are not 5 people on this planet that would have gotten off the mat in that fight in 71. Foreman hit him with blows that could have dented a tree. Anyone remember the Acorn Earnie Shavers? He hit Ali with a right that should have killed Ali. Instead, Ali knocked him out late in the fight....
As far as I am concerned, Ali had the best chin of any fighter in the modern era and that, along with incredible speed and accuracy would have led him to victory.

The wildcard on here is Jack Johnson.....It is hard to quantify him considering the era, his lifestlye, and the absurd things he had to put up with due to his race and his diversions with anglo women. In the ring, he was a freaking terror...Also, those dudes fought outrageous rounds and with bizzare rules by modern standards. Extrapolating Johnson into the modern fight era is a tough one... Louis was of course, incredible and arguably his story the most tragic.

I think it is also important to look at the size of the heavyweight. IIRC Marciano fought in the 180's-190's range as did Dempsey. Not sure about Johnson. That is a Crusier in today's game if not a sucked down Light Heavy.

jm.02


Johnson just got a pardon for his crime of dating a white woman. Unfortunately the man has been dead for 60 some years.

I often wonder how many of Marciano's fights were mob controlled.

brd
07-31-2009, 01:35 PM
Johnson just got a pardon for his crime of dating a white woman. Unfortunately the man has been dead for 60 some years.

I often wonder how many of Marciano's fights were mob controlled.


The Johnson pardon was long overdue. That dude ate a lot of crap in his day. He definately challenged the status quo and I think Ali owes much of his "flamboyance" to Johnson. Johnson is still a subject of great debate...As for Rock and the mob, my pops knew the man pretty well and did not think Marciano was influenced by the mob nor the outcome of any of his fights. Now, as for manipulating who fought Rock and the when/where, that's a different story....There are a lot of guys that deserved shots in the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's that may not have gotten that opportunity due to organized crime influence. Of course, the same could be said of the Don King Era and I would argue with anyone that thought King was not the equivalent of a mob boss, or worse...There has been no more successful convicted murderer in my lifetime or bigger piece of shit....

Sugan
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
The Johnson pardon was long overdue. That dude ate a lot of crap in his day. He definately challenged the status quo and I think Ali owes much of his "flamboyance" to Johnson. Johnson is still a subject of great debate...As for Rock and the mob, my pops knew the man pretty well and did not think Marciano was influenced by the mob nor the outcome of any of his fights. Now, as for manipulating who fought Rock and the when/where, that's a different story....There are a lot of guys that deserved shots in the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's that may not have gotten that opportunity due to organized crime influence. Of course, the same could be said of the Don King Era and I would argue with anyone that thought King was not the equivalent of a mob boss, or worse...There has been no more successful convicted murderer in my lifetime or bigger piece of shit....


King is a shitbag for sure. How did your pop know the Rock ?

brd
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
King is a shitbag for sure. How did your pop know the Rock ?

My pops owned an Italian Bakery in Northern New Jersey which was passed on to him from my grandfather who came over from Naples in the late 1800's...Anyway, my pops was very well known in New York as well and went to every Marciano fight and had met Marciano through mutual friends. Marciano came by the bakery whenever he was in town. He used to order a dozen canolis and throw them down one right after the other with some espresso. Good stuff....So my pops and him were friends of a sort, but not everyday hang out buddies. My father was also acquaintainces with the other Italian fighters of the 40's-50's era probably closest with Willie Pep who came by the store a lot. My father also knew a lot of the peripheral guys, entourage guys and no shortage of "made" guys. They were all customers of his, most for life, but no shakedowns or any shit like that. They were scared shitless of my dad and rightly so. He was a BAMF and took no shit, not from anyone....So I kind of grew up around some interesting and colorful cats and that's why he believed what he did about Rock's fights. Hell he knew all the players...:)

ebfitness
07-31-2009, 05:31 PM
I think Tyson was the most exciting KO artist, but you can't deny Rocky's record.

Sugan
08-01-2009, 12:09 AM
My pops owned an Italian Bakery in Northern New Jersey which was passed on to him from my grandfather who came over from Naples in the late 1800's...Anyway, my pops was very well known in New York as well and went to every Marciano fight and had met Marciano through mutual friends. Marciano came by the bakery whenever he was in town. He used to order a dozen canolis and throw them down one right after the other with some espresso. Good stuff....So my pops and him were friends of a sort, but not everyday hang out buddies. My father was also acquaintainces with the other Italian fighters of the 40's-50's era probably closest with Willie Pep who came by the store a lot. My father also knew a lot of the peripheral guys, entourage guys and no shortage of "made" guys. They were all customers of his, most for life, but no shakedowns or any shit like that. They were scared shitless of my dad and rightly so. He was a BAMF and took no shit, not from anyone....So I kind of grew up around some interesting and colorful cats and that's why he believed what he did about Rock's fights. Hell he knew all the players...:)

Cool story. Pep was a legend too. I have a cool old wop story too. My great grandfather also owned a bakery in Chicago, by way of Palermo. He would not pay Capone's collection guys for protection and an inside guy told him if he did not leave Chicago ASAP he'd be killed. So he and the family moved to Montreal overnight with the shirts on their backs and started over. There is still a line of the family's products in Quebec. Canned tomatoes, olives and Italian specialties. I've even sampled a few. My grandmother had all the old pics from Chicago and the story was 100% true.

Bryan Hildebrand
08-01-2009, 09:20 AM
Same with Atlas. Teddy was a great trainer. Rooney too.

when cus passed, I knew it would change tyson. when he had no fatherly figure directing him, teddy ran him well, until his outside influences spoke too loud.

I went with Ali for a few reasons, but primarily it was the bredth and depth of talent he fought during his career. foreman did too a degree as well as frasier, but after losing in mannila, george fell off into oblivion.

archie moore
sonny liston x2
floyd patterson x2
jerry quarry x2
joe frazier
ken norton x2
george foreman
ron lyle (IMO, one of the greatest of his career)
ernie shavers
leon spinks
larry holmes
trevor burbick

that is a trememndous list of fighters.