Refeeds - Info, Ideas, Recipes,

[Alex The Great]

Alright I decided to start this thread thats dedicated to those who prefer to do refeeds over the single cheat meal.

I have experimented with the cheat meal as well as a cheat feed (Eating shit for 4-6 hours) and now ive moved on to refeeds. I feel that refeeds have been most beneficial to me so far. I am able to take in a ton of carbs and after a few days I weigh less and look much more detailed then I did before.

So if you guys have any info, recipes or record setting refeeds post em up.

[GottaGetLean]

Refeed Day

Meal 1- Chicken wedge with lettuce tomato cheese mayo, 2 orders of french fries, 2 big bags of doritos ranch..

Meal 2- 2 Hamburgers, 2 Hot dogs, French Fries ( Home Cooked ) with ranch doritos

Meal 3- Burger King, 3 Original Chicken Sandwiches, 2 King size fries, 2 bacon hamburgers, 12 piece chicken fries

Meal 4- Box of Smacks Cereal

Meal 5- 2 domino pies

Meal 6- Bowl of chocolate and vanilla ice cream

[Alex The Great]

10 Hour Refeed

Wawa pretzel
Twizzlers
8 Cups oatmeal
Johns popcorn
2/3 Box Captain crunch
2 Quarts FF Breyers Vanilla Ice cream
4 Low Fat Waffles w/ syrup
4 Slices bread
1 Pack Low fat Graham Crackers
2 Handful Dots
2 Handfuls Mike and Ike

5k Calories
1,020g Carbs
53g Fat
105g Protein

[Alex The Great]

Refeed Day

Meal 1- Chicken wedge with lettuce tomato cheese mayo, 2 orders of french fries, 2 big bags of doritos ranch..

Meal 2- 2 Hamburgers, 2 Hot dogs, French Fries ( Home Cooked ) with ranch doritos

Meal 3- Burger King, 3 Original Chicken Sandwiches, 2 King size fries, 2 bacon hamburgers, 12 piece chicken fries

Meal 4- Box of Smacks Cereal

Meal 5- 2 domino pies

Meal 6- Bowl of chocolate and vanilla ice cream

Thats more of a cheat feed. Theres a ton of fat.

[lomox]

Whats the deal here. A cheat meal can have a ton of fat, but a refeed day is low fat, high carbs?? What about protien?

[MDur8]

Homemade French Toast

1 loaf texas toast style bread
1 carton liquid egg whites
cinnamon sugar

1. Dip bread in egg whites
2. Cook in pan a couple min each side
3. Top with non fat ice cream, fat free whipped cream, maple and chocolate syrup.

This is a staple for me on refeeds...very easy to make and tastes amazing

I also blend shakes consisting of protein powder, non fat ice cream, and captain crunch cereal when I start to lose my appetite at the end of the refeed.

[MDur8]

You guys should also look at Myth's blog under refeeds...This guy has it down to a science!

http://projectmythology.blogspot.com

[MashkaNY]

You guys should also look at Myth's blog under refeeds...This guy has it down to a science!

http://projectmythology.blogspot.com
what kind of diet does he follow?

[MikeS]

I beleive your carb up days should be minimal fat & I mean minimal. Today I carb'd up and my fat intake was 9-10g for the day. Thats as low as I can get it. I carb up over 1 day only so for the first half of the day I take plenty of simple carbs (sugars) and move onto starchy carbs as the day progresses...my day went like this roughly:

meal1: 1 glass OJ, 3 slices bread with 50g maple syrup, 50gweetabix, 100g raisans, 50g maple syrup

meal2: 40g whey, 300ml OJ

meal3: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, tuna

meal4: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, white fish

meal5: 150-200g raisans, 50g maple syrup, 2 slices bread

meal6: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, white fish

meal7: 30g whey blend

eating a ton of fat in there with all those carbs to me, is suicide and an excuse to be lazy.

[lomox]

I beleive your carb up days should be minimal fat & I mean minimal. Today I carb'd up and my fat intake was 9-10g for the day. Thats as low as I can get it. I carb up over 1 day only so for the first half of the day I take plenty of simple carbs (sugars) and move onto starchy carbs as the day progresses...my day went like this roughly:

meal1: 1 glass OJ, 3 slices bread with 50g maple syrup, 50gweetabix, 100g raisans, 50g maple syrup

meal2: 40g whey, 300ml OJ

meal3: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, tuna

meal4: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, white fish

meal5: 150-200g raisans, 50g maple syrup, 2 slices bread

meal6: 50g rice, 50g pineapple, white fish

meal7: 30g whey blend

eating a ton of fat in there with all those carbs to me, is suicide and an excuse to be lazy.

Why is that exactly?

Also, it seems so freakin easy to do a no fat day now that im so used to doing no carbs. I could care less about the fat really. Could eat cereal and skim milk all day long if I had to and fat free cookies, waffles,... shit low fat aint nuthin now!

[Frosty]

Fat content can vary with refeeds depending on what works. Mauro DiPasquale's diet basically has refeeds once a week and he has always said to play around with different macros to see what works best for you.

You have to keep in mind that fat during a refeed isn't necessarily going to make you fat. Fat + insulin doesn't mean it goes right to adipose tissue. Fat can be stored in and around muscle cells which can be beneficial and not to mention make you full as hell compared to JUST carbs. However how lean you are is going to be one variable...a fatty carby refeed is more suited to guys with better insulin sensitivity as well as being quite lean like under 8% BF.

Many ways to skin a cat here, so I just want to throw this out here so people realize experimenting with ratios is a possibility to see what works well and not think a refeed HAS to be as low in fat as humanly possible. Just don't kid youself and convince yourself that you need a high carb high fat refeed day when you're 20% BF :D It all comes down to what produces results and that's all that matters at the end of the day. That's why some people are in here talking refeeds because they found them to work better than a single "cheat meal."

[Alex The Great]

Frosty said it best. You never know whats works best for you until you try it. I keep my fats pretty low but dam 10 grams of fat...no way. I enjoy my refeeds. I like taking in tons of food that I miss during the week and I watch but fat content but I dont watch it to a high extreme. This week im shooting for atleast 1,500g carbs in 10 hours. Lets get it done....

[MDur8]

You dont have to aim for 10g fat lol thats way too low and IMO some fat is necessary on a refeed. I follow a 10% rule, So if Im eating something where the serving size is 50g carbs, then I try to keep the fat around 5g per serving.

1500g is quite a bit for a refeed. How much strength trainnig/cardio are you getting in during the week. Remember, even though Myth does some pretty outrageous refeeds, it's what works for HIM. To avoid setting your self back on the refeed, make sure your weekly exercise and carbohydrate depletion warrants that high of a refeed.

[MDur8]

what kind of diet does he follow?

Dont know what he's doing know but I believe he was pretty low carb, possibly keto but dont qoute me on that, during his contest prep a couple months ago. He was also doing a ton of metabolic conditioning workouts, which made it necessary for him to have his outrageous refeeds :bowdown:

[lomox]

You dont have to aim for 10g fat lol thats way too low and IMO some fat is necessary on a refeed. I follow a 10% rule, So if Im eating something where the serving size is 50g carbs, then I try to keep the fat around 5g per serving.

1500g is quite a bit for a refeed. How much strength trainnig/cardio are you getting in during the week. Remember, even though Myth does some pretty outrageous refeeds, it's what works for HIM. To avoid setting your self back on the refeed, make sure your weekly exercise and carbohydrate depletion warrants that high of a refeed.

What would you consider sufficent exercize?

I do:
5 days per week - 45-50min HIT weights and 60 min 130bpm cardio
2 days 90min cardio 130bpm

Is there some reasoning behind doing the refeed day as opposed to meal?

[MDur8]

5 days of HIT weights would be too much for my CNS and recovery but if it works for you keep doing it.

Yeah that would warrant a pretty big refeed IF your carbs were limited during the week

Last year for my prep I did a Palumbo style diet with a one cheat meal and I ended up too flat and stringy and losing too much muscle. This year I did a trial prep with carbs limited to pwo and the rest of my meals pro/fat/veggie, my refeed started at 3 meals one day a week and ended up at 12 hours of eating as many carbs as I COMFORTABLY. not stuffing yourself is important, could. I ended up retaining a lot more muscle and losing more fat when I did a high carb, low fat/fiber refeed. Now Im not saying that Dave's diet doesnt work, but it didnt work as well for me.

[Alex The Great]

You dont have to aim for 10g fat lol thats way too low and IMO some fat is necessary on a refeed. I follow a 10% rule, So if Im eating something where the serving size is 50g carbs, then I try to keep the fat around 5g per serving.

1500g is quite a bit for a refeed. How much strength trainnig/cardio are you getting in during the week. Remember, even though Myth does some pretty outrageous refeeds, it's what works for HIM. To avoid setting your self back on the refeed, make sure your weekly exercise and carbohydrate depletion warrants that high of a refeed.

I lift 5 days a week balls to the wall everyworkout, work a full time job doing HVAC, and do 1 1/2- 2 hours of liss cardio per day. I do a depletion workout to further deplete before I refeed. Doing 1,000g carbs worked great. Im gona shoot for 1,500. If that was too much Ill adjust it lower if im still loosing weight ill try to increase it :)

[Frosty]

You dont have to aim for 10g fat lol thats way too low and IMO some fat is necessary on a refeed. I follow a 10% rule, So if Im eating something where the serving size is 50g carbs, then I try to keep the fat around 5g per serving.

1500g is quite a bit for a refeed. How much strength trainnig/cardio are you getting in during the week. Remember, even though Myth does some pretty outrageous refeeds, it's what works for HIM. To avoid setting your self back on the refeed, make sure your weekly exercise and carbohydrate depletion warrants that high of a refeed.

Myth did quite a bit of endurance aerobic training outside of lifting weights, so keep that in mind with how he did his refeed. That's not to say that it may not work for others, but just that endurance training jacks up carb requirements way more than lifting weights does. Think about it a guy just walking and doing HIT once a week doesn't need as many carbs as a guy training weights and running many many miles per week. Remember those 200g of carb recommendations post-workout? That came from endurance athletes, which really isn't applicable to guys just training for 5 sets of 6 reps!

[zubbeyboy]

Last Saturday i had a refeed day

1. Bowl Oats with Blueberries and Maple Syrup 6 Whole Eggs
2. 3 Soft Shell Tacos,3 Chicken Fajitas,Nachos ,and lrg Pepsi
3. Big Order General Taos Chicken (Deep fried garbage)
4. Shrimp (8 oz) with pasta and marinara and garlic
5. Half Bow Chocolate Doughnuts and Watermellon
And there was also a 6 pack of Coke in the evening as well as more i prolly forgot.

I am 37 Years Old 242# @5'6". Started Diet 5 weeks ago @ 257# after a two year layoff.Lost way more fat because of the muscle ive put back on.

Was i happy with my refeed? Sunday and Monday no i felt like shit. Today (Wed) i feel leaner than i was last week.Im gonna clean it up a bunch next Sat and see how that works.Its Evel Knievel Days in Butte MT this weekend!! http://www.knieveldays.com/ There will be them great vendors with the teriyaki rice bowls mmmmm.

[Frosty]

Hahaha watch the Chinese food man. Many people experience "Chinese food syndrome" from the MSG that is so ubiquitous in most Chinese food. This can leave people bloated and hung-over feeling from it. This doesn't happen for me but I know people that it does this to.

[MDur8]

I lift 5 days a week balls to the wall everyworkout, work a full time job doing HVAC, and do 1 1/2- 2 hours of liss cardio per day. I do a depletion workout to further deplete before I refeed. Doing 1,000g carbs worked great. Im gona shoot for 1,500. If that was too much Ill adjust it lower if im still loosing weight ill try to increase it :)

Yeah than in your case a 1500g refeed is well justified :beerbang: :popcorn:


Myth did quite a bit of endurance aerobic training outside of lifting weights, so keep that in mind with how he did his refeed. That's not to say that it may not work for others, but just that endurance training jacks up carb requirements way more than lifting weights does. Think about it a guy just walking and doing HIT once a week doesn't need as many carbs as a guy training weights and running many many miles per week. Remember those 200g of carb recommendations post-workout? That came from endurance athletes, which really isn't applicable to guys just training for 5 sets of 6 reps!

Totally agree...:)

[MDur8]

Here's a great thread on meal ideas for refeeds:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/33411-skip-approved-skiploading-refeed-day-carbs.html

[zubbeyboy]

Here's a great thread on meal ideas for refeeds:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/33411-skip-approved-skiploading-refeed-day-carbs.html

Thanks!!

[lomox]

Here's a great thread on meal ideas for refeeds:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/33411-skip-approved-skiploading-refeed-day-carbs.html

This is awesome, but from the looks of it, it seems the point is to take in as many carbs as possible over the course of a day and limit fat intake. Is that correct? I don't mean correct for me, but correct in the sense of thats the point of this type of refeed?

Can anyone shed any light on the reasoning behind this? I'm just not sure I get it. Why wouldnt taking in 15k cals in carbs completely derail you? Are the folks in this thread marathoners or something?

Basically I am doing Keto all week with the cheat meal on Sunday. I train alot as noted above and would love nothing more than to have one of these carb cacaphony days. I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. Like, does one need to be "assisted" to do something like this or will us anabolically challeneged folks see good results from it.

I know the answer is "try it and see if it works", but with so many people doing it I am just wondering what the theory behind it is. I most certainly dont want halt my progress with experimentation (not competing but 5 weeks away from a trip I want to be lean as hell for), but on the same note I dont want to miss an opportunity to accelerate it. I should mention that i'm 6'3" about 200lbs as of last Sunday. BF I would estimate between 9-10% (its hard to tell visually becuase I used to be oer 330lbs with astronomical BF - so there are some skin and stretching issues especially around the lower abs) - I can definately see my abs, especially the uppers, lowers its hard to tell. I'll check the BF scale tonight, but not so sure I trust those competely.

Sorry if this has all been discussed before, I just started with all this and its hard to get through all the info posted.

Thanks again!

[Alex The Great]

This is awesome, but from the looks of it, it seems the point is to take in as many carbs as possible over the course of a day and limit fat intake. Is that correct? I don't mean correct for me, but correct in the sense of thats the point of this type of refeed?

Can anyone shed any light on the reasoning behind this? I'm just not sure I get it. Why wouldnt taking in 15k cals in carbs completely derail you? Are the folks in this thread marathoners or something?

Basically I am doing Keto all week with the cheat meal on Sunday. I train alot as noted above and would love nothing more than to have one of these carb cacaphony days. I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. Like, does one need to be "assisted" to do something like this or will us anabolically challeneged folks see good results from it.

I know the answer is "try it and see if it works", but with so many people doing it I am just wondering what the theory behind it is. I most certainly dont want halt my progress with experimentation (not competing but 5 weeks away from a trip I want to be lean as hell for), but on the same note I dont want to miss an opportunity to accelerate it. I should mention that i'm 6'3" about 200lbs as of last Sunday. BF I would estimate between 9-10% (its hard to tell visually becuase I used to be oer 330lbs with astronomical BF - so there are some skin and stretching issues especially around the lower abs) - I can definately see my abs, especially the uppers, lowers its hard to tell. I'll check the BF scale tonight, but not so sure I trust those competely.

Sorry if this has all been discussed before, I just started with all this and its hard to get through all the info posted.

Thanks again!

Yes you want to try to take in a high amount of carbs, low fat, low fiber. Carbs should make up about 70% of your intake, fat 15% and protein 15%. You should start off with a smaller refeed window and then slowly increase it. First start off with 2 meals. So you eat one meal wait about 3 hours then eat the second. You should be full for the rest of the day cause they are gona be monster sized meals but if not have a protein shake or two.

Well in essence this is how it works. If your body is in keto the entire week and its burning fat for energy except for your workouts that are high intensity and require the use of carbs all of your glycogen stores are burnt up. Doing this refeed allows your body to replenish your glycogen levels and even supercompensates to some degree and stores more glycogen. The reason that you burn fat while doing this is because your body is already in fat burning mode. When its in fat burning mode its not gona just switch over to burning carbs as a source of energy as long as your refeed is kept shorter. They should be under 24 hours for most people but the lower bodyfat you get the more you can refeed. What happends when you take in all these carbs is your body basically goes holy shit I cant process all of this I need to get rid of it. So you body burns calories to get rid of all of the excess calories that you ingested. Since your body is in fat burning mode it uses fat as the energy source to get rid of these calories. That is why after a refeed you will use the bathroom many a times and throughout the course of the week you will drop weight.

My last refeed was 1,000g carbs. I woke up at 153.6 pounds on sat and I went to bed at 165.4 pounds on sat. This morning (thurs) I woke up at 152.0 pounds. As long as you do the refeed correctly it is the best type of fat burner that you can buy. :)

[Frosty]

Guys one thing I'm going to play with is potent herbal GDAs to see how it helps me "load" :) I'll report my results, but I feel this is an excellent way to help pack on the food and having more stored in muscle tissue and reducing the risk further of fat gain :)

[lomox]

Yes you want to try to take in a high amount of carbs, low fat, low fiber. Carbs should make up about 70% of your intake, fat 15% and protein 15%. You should start off with a smaller refeed window and then slowly increase it. First start off with 2 meals. So you eat one meal wait about 3 hours then eat the second. You should be full for the rest of the day cause they are gona be monster sized meals but if not have a protein shake or two.

Well in essence this is how it works. If your body is in keto the entire week and its burning fat for energy except for your workouts that are high intensity and require the use of carbs all of your glycogen stores are burnt up. Doing this refeed allows your body to replenish your glycogen levels and even supercompensates to some degree and stores more glycogen. The reason that you burn fat while doing this is because your body is already in fat burning mode. When its in fat burning mode its not gona just switch over to burning carbs as a source of energy as long as your refeed is kept shorter. They should be under 24 hours for most people but the lower bodyfat you get the more you can refeed. What happends when you take in all these carbs is your body basically goes holy shit I cant process all of this I need to get rid of it. So you body burns calories to get rid of all of the excess calories that you ingested. Since your body is in fat burning mode it uses fat as the energy source to get rid of these calories. That is why after a refeed you will use the bathroom many a times and throughout the course of the week you will drop weight.

My last refeed was 1,000g carbs. I woke up at 153.6 pounds on sat and I went to bed at 165.4 pounds on sat. This morning (thurs) I woke up at 152.0 pounds. As long as you do the refeed correctly it is the best type of fat burner that you can buy. :)

Very good explaination. Many thanks. So low protien too then, huh? That changes things a bit, but this makes pretty good sense. I'll try it. Any specific times to eat these first two meals? I plan on doing it on Sunday which is leg day and a killer heart pumping workout.

[Frosty]

Have any of you guys tried doing a workout before a refeed? I'd be curious to hear from people that have and how it compares to doing it on a day with no training. Say for example do one of your planned workouts the morning of the refeed.

[Frosty]

Also quick note, when taking in this many carbs insulin is sky high, and this is a great opportunity to load nutrients into muscle tissue. Things like creatine, carnitine, taurine, BCAAs, and also micronutrients like chromium polynicotinate, chelated magnesiums, etc.

I see the refeed as a tremendous opportunity to drive in nutrients that will help you burn fat, assist in insulin sensitivity, and things that will improve workout performance and increase hypertrophy. The BCAA thing on a carb load sounds like a great idea to me and would help make it more anabolic.

[lomox]

Also quick note, when taking in this many carbs insulin is sky high, and this is a great opportunity to load nutrients into muscle tissue. Things like creatine, carnitine, taurine, BCAAs, and also micronutrients like chromium polynicotinate, chelated magnesiums, etc.

I see the refeed as a tremendous opportunity to drive in nutrients that will help you burn fat, assist in insulin sensitivity, and things that will improve workout performance and increase hypertrophy. The BCAA thing on a carb load sounds like a great idea to me and would help make it more anabolic.

Ha! I just got to that part of the Official Keto Thread - where you talk about this. I am reading the whole thing!

I am doing this on Sunday, BUT since I have never done it on a non-workout day, I have no basis for comparison and therefore can be of no help. Sorry. :)

[Alex The Great]

Have any of you guys tried doing a workout before a refeed? I'd be curious to hear from people that have and how it compares to doing it on a day with no training. Say for example do one of your planned workouts the morning of the refeed.

I do a depletion workout before my refeed but I havent tried a scheduled training day yet but I will try it next week and let you know how it goes :).

[Alex The Great]

Very good explaination. Many thanks. So low protien too then, huh? That changes things a bit, but this makes pretty good sense. I'll try it. Any specific times to eat these first two meals? I plan on doing it on Sunday which is leg day and a killer heart pumping workout.

Well if I was you heres what I would do. I would wake up and on an empty stomach do a depletion workout. Do like a circuit and hit everybody part 1-2 times. It should take you about a half hour to an hour. Or just do a 20 min HITT cardio session. Whatever fits into your schedule. Then have your first meal and enjoy it but remember to keep the fat low. For instance my first meal on sat is gona be 6 Low fat waffles, 1 Quart LF vanilla ice cream, syrup, LF chocolate syrup, and fat free brownies all mixed in one bowl. Have a nice big meal but dont gorge yourself and make yourself feel sick. It should take you able 30min-1 hour to finish. Just take your time and enjoy it. Then 3-4 hours later do the same thing. That should keep you stable for the rest of the day. If you find yourself getting hungry later (which you shouldnt you should be completely stuffed) then have a protein shake. You will add a bunch of weight but dont worry it will all come off as long as you train just as you did the week before. It usually takes 3-5 days for someone to level out and drop all the weight they added.

[Alex The Great]

Guys one thing I'm going to play with is potent herbal GDAs to see how it helps me "load" :) I'll report my results, but I feel this is an excellent way to help pack on the food and having more stored in muscle tissue and reducing the risk further of fat gain :)

Yea let me know how that goes. Ive used ALA and Citrimax and really havent noticed much of a different. I wouldnt worry too much about fat gain. Your lean and I doubt your gona put on any fat. Are you still sticking to the one cheat meal or are you giving the refeed a shot?:confused:

[Frosty]

Ha! I just got to that part of the Official Keto Thread - where you talk about this. I am reading the whole thing!

I am doing this on Sunday, BUT since I have never done it on a non-workout day, I have no basis for comparison and therefore can be of no help. Sorry. :)

Let me be a bit more specific here than I was in that thread since it's very applicable here.

Depending on the multivitamin you take, you could possibly double or triple up the dose on the carb load! Drive all those nutrients into muscle tissue!! :) Just be careful the multi doesn't contain nutrients that would be excessive in these doses.

Carnitine would be a cool amino to load. Say you took 2g per meal. Regular carnitine could work because of the very high insulin levels at this time to drive it into muscle tissue, and this would help you burn fat during the week. Proprionyl l-carnitine could be used although more expensive than regular l-carnitine and tastes a lot worse.

Magnesium a good chelated form, say Poliquin's Ubermag, you could take like 300mg per meal and drive quite a bit of this important mineral into muscle tissue. This would help increase insulin sensitivity. Be careful using magnesium citrate as it is rougher on the bowels than other forms like those in Ubermag. To be blunt, be careful you don't get diarrhea from using too much lol.

Chromium polynicotinate would also me smart if you have it. 200-400mcg per meal to enhance overall glucose tolerance and insulin production. This may seem like a lot but keep in mind it's just one day out of the week. If you did 400mcg for 7 meals that's really like having 400mcg per day 7 days a week which isn't high.

Biotin is involved with enzymes in glycogen storage. 3-10mg on a load may be a good idea but not sure if i'd go out of my way to buy it for this reason. Hopefully a multi would have enough of it if you did 2-3x the normal dose.

Creatine monohydrate would be awesome on a load. Hell if you did 5g per meal that would be kick ass.

Zinc chelates could be taken on the carb load assuming you're not eating higher calcium containing foods like dairy. Be cautious of the amounts though because you can get nauseated. Maybe 30mg with a non-dairy meal.

4:1:1 ratio BCAAs could be taken during the load. I'd shoot for 0.44g/kg spaced out during the load to enhance anabolism. Remember it's changes in blood leucine levels that spikes protein synthesis, so you don't want it with every meal. Every other meal would work.

Taurine would be a cool volumizing amino and all the insulin would drive it into the muscle tissue. It has many other benefits as well such as enhancing insulin sensitivity.

Now depending on the training you do, sodium phosphate could be loaded into muscle to enhance endurance. Although this would be the most applicable to people that do endurance stuff.

Make sure you don't go low sodium for a carb load. It makes the sodium dependent pumps less effective and you don't load as well or utilize the nutrients like carbs and creatine as well.


The other idea that I want to try myself is to use potent herbal GDAs such as banaba extract (aka Lagerstroemia speciosa) 15 minutes before meals to help make sure the carbs go more to muscle and less to fat tissue when talking very large quantities. I have some 20% stuff that's supposed to be dosed at 100mg per 20g carbs. I can report results on this.


And as a quick note, DON'T just try all these at the higher doses right off the bat. Perhaps start low or add one thing at a time to make sure you don't end up with some issues since different people have different bowel tolerance to these things. GDAs like the banaba should be approached with caution as well.

[Frosty]

Yea let me know how that goes. Ive used ALA and Citrimax and really havent noticed much of a different. I wouldnt worry too much about fat gain. Your lean and I doubt your gona put on any fat. Are you still sticking to the one cheat meal or are you giving the refeed a shot?:confused:

Still on the one meal for now. I just love being able to eat until I'm really full and on a full day load I have a tough time not eating ridiculous quantities.

Citrimax I don't like the idea of using in theory. Same goes for cinnamon. Both slow down gastric emptying, which you do not want on a carb load!

Regular ALA I think is a waste of time and money. Stabilized r-ALA like Na-r-ALA or K-r-ALA would be the way to go if you want to use it.

[Frosty]

I do a depletion workout before my refeed but I havent tried a scheduled training day yet but I will try it next week and let you know how it goes :).

If you wanted to get really anal, I would have the load after lifting for a group that is your weakest. Say your squats are weakest, I would squat and then carb load.

[lomox]

Well if I was you heres what I would do. I would wake up and on an empty stomach do a depletion workout. Do like a circuit and hit everybody part 1-2 times. It should take you about a half hour to an hour. Or just do a 20 min HITT cardio session. Whatever fits into your schedule. Then have your first meal and enjoy it but remember to keep the fat low. For instance my first meal on sat is gona be 6 Low fat waffles, 1 Quart LF vanilla ice cream, syrup, LF chocolate syrup, and fat free brownies all mixed in one bowl. Have a nice big meal but dont gorge yourself and make yourself feel sick. It should take you able 30min-1 hour to finish. Just take your time and enjoy it. Then 3-4 hours later do the same thing. That should keep you stable for the rest of the day. If you find yourself getting hungry later (which you shouldnt you should be completely stuffed) then have a protein shake. You will add a bunch of weight but dont worry it will all come off as long as you train just as you did the week before. It usually takes 3-5 days for someone to level out and drop all the weight they added.

Thx bro. I actually have to do legs on Sunday this week. Next week I may be able to change the schedule around. BUT my leg workout is based of the porinciples of Arthur Jones where I do 1 set of 20 leg press, 1 set of 15-20 leg extension the 1 set of squats 15... no rest in between to toal failure. (this works great for me b/c I have lower back issues and I dont have to use nearly as much weight on the squats. Its such a strange feeling to have my legs give out before my lower back.) I do two cycles of those, 1-2 sets of ham curls, 1-2 sets of stiff deads supersetted with hypers and 2 sets fo calf raises (some tibia work to help with my drumming but that dont really count!). Then 1hr low int cardio. If I have my traditional eggs whites and nuts beforehand will that sufficiently deplete me to try this or should I just wait until next week? I would rathar not go through a workout like that on an empty stomach. I should also mention I take BCAAs throught the workout.

Sorry for the million questions... I have a bit of anxiety about eating so many carbs. I havent eaten that many since Thanksgiving! And before that, my bday 6 months earlier! I know Im neurotic, but I really do appreciate all the advice! Thanks again!

[cobra]

Thx bro. I actually have to do legs on Sunday this week. Next week I may be able to change the schedule around. BUT my leg workout is based of the porinciples of Arthur Jones where I do 1 set of 20 leg press, 1 set of 15-20 leg extension the 1 set of squats 15... no rest in between to toal failure. (this works great for me b/c I have lower back issues and I dont have to use nearly as much weight on the squats. Its such a strange feeling to have my legs give out before my lower back.) I do two cycles of those, 1-2 sets of ham curls, 1-2 sets of stiff deads supersetted with hypers and 2 sets fo calf raises (some tibia work to help with my drumming but that dont really count!). Then 1hr low int cardio. If I have my traditional eggs whites and nuts beforehand will that sufficiently deplete me to try this or should I just wait until next week? I would rathar not go through a workout like that on an empty stomach. I should also mention I take BCAAs throught the workout.

Sorry for the million questions... I have a bit of anxiety about eating so many carbs. I havent eaten that many since Thanksgiving! And before that, my bday 6 months earlier! I know Im neurotic, but I really do appreciate all the advice! Thanks again!

Questions are good bro, we're all learning!

[dropshot001]

I do a depletion workout before my refeed but I havent tried a scheduled training day yet but I will try it next week and let you know how it goes :).

depending on the length of your refeed (# of meals), then you might not have enough time to get through all the meals depending on the time of your workout.

[Alex The Great]

depending on the length of your refeed (# of meals), then you might not have enough time to get through all the meals depending on the time of your workout.

I would have the same amount of time to get through my meals. Instead of doing an hour depletion workout I would just be doing an hour regular workout. No time difference just different type of exercise. :D

[Alex The Great]

Thx bro. I actually have to do legs on Sunday this week. Next week I may be able to change the schedule around. BUT my leg workout is based of the porinciples of Arthur Jones where I do 1 set of 20 leg press, 1 set of 15-20 leg extension the 1 set of squats 15... no rest in between to toal failure. (this works great for me b/c I have lower back issues and I dont have to use nearly as much weight on the squats. Its such a strange feeling to have my legs give out before my lower back.) I do two cycles of those, 1-2 sets of ham curls, 1-2 sets of stiff deads supersetted with hypers and 2 sets fo calf raises (some tibia work to help with my drumming but that dont really count!). Then 1hr low int cardio. If I have my traditional eggs whites and nuts beforehand will that sufficiently deplete me to try this or should I just wait until next week? I would rathar not go through a workout like that on an empty stomach. I should also mention I take BCAAs throught the workout.

Sorry for the million questions... I have a bit of anxiety about eating so many carbs. I havent eaten that many since Thanksgiving! And before that, my bday 6 months earlier! I know Im neurotic, but I really do appreciate all the advice! Thanks again!

Yea you will be fine with having your regular first meal. It may infact benefit you even more to do your carb loading after a tough leg workout out. It will spike insulin and drive nutrients into the muscles that you just exercised giving you an extra boost. Thats why people do a depletion workout before they carb load so all of the nutrients are driven into their freshly worked muscles.

[Alex The Great]

If you wanted to get really anal, I would have the load after lifting for a group that is your weakest. Say your squats are weakest, I would squat and then carb load.

Yea thats a great theory that I have thought about. This sat im gona increase the window of my refeed as well as increase the amount of carbs that I refeed. If that still has a positive impact on me. I may lift my weakest bodypart on friday then begin my carb up friday post workout and end it on saturday night. So I will have about a 24-30 hour refeed even though 8-10 of those hours will be spent sleeping. We will see what is still to come.

[Alex The Great]

Saturday I will be eating my death by chocolate recipe and im pretty damn excited.

6 Low Fat Waffles
1 Quart Low Fat Ice Cream
Low Fat Chocolate Syrup
Low Fat Syrup
Fat Free Brownies
All in mixed up in one bowl :)

[Suzanne]

My refeeds during prep varied i had a couple that were first half of day then lift then regualr meals rest of day

then 2 that were all day with WO midday

after my comp my trainer and me do 4 days of 1000g carbs :D then mon-thur after the show

my favs are
Ohs cereal
fruit loops
honey bunches of oats
capn crunch berries
pancakes/ syrup did light so i would use up too many carbs so i coul eat more
klondike ff ice cream sandwiches
ff ice cream
ff brownies
red vines
gummy worms
mike n ikes
protein hsake with ff ice cream
i did have some pasta but not very exciting
i am mostly about the cereal!

[Alex The Great]

My refeeds during prep varied i had a couple that were first half of day then lift then regualr meals rest of day

then 2 that were all day with WO midday

after my comp my trainer and me do 4 days of 1000g carbs :D then mon-thur after the show

my favs are
Ohs cereal
fruit loops
honey bunches of oats
capn crunch berries
pancakes/ syrup did light so i would use up too many carbs so i coul eat more
klondike ff ice cream sandwiches
ff ice cream
ff brownies
red vines
gummy worms
mike n ikes
protein hsake with ff ice cream
i did have some pasta but not very exciting
i am mostly about the cereal!

Yea the cereal is awesome. I do the same thing with the syrup. I use waldenfarms syrup cause to me id rather blow my calories on something else cause I have a huge appetite. Im getting rdy to make FF brownies in a few hours after my workout. That way ive got them for tomorrow when I wake up :)

[Alex The Great]

15 Hour Refeed

3 Pepperidge Farm Bagels
4 Low Fat Waffles
2 Cups Breyers Fat Free Ice Cream
10 Fat Free Brownies
1 Blueberry Muffin
1 Handful Starburst Jelly Beans
1 Handful Mike and Ike
5 Twizzlers
4 Philadelphia Pretzel Factory Soft Pretzels
2 Gatorades
5 Cups Captain Crunch
2 Low Fat Cinnamon Poptarts
6 Breadsticks
1 Large Fat Free Frozen Yogurt Sundae w/butterfinger
1 Serving Whole Grain Oatmeal

7,442 Calories
1,562g Carbs
142.2g Protein
58.2g Fat

[lomox]

The refeed recap.

So I completed my first non-cheat reefed on Sunday and it went well, pending results of course. I am not about to calculate all the macros, because I just don’t have the time, but I’ll list amounts along with the menu. First let’s start with the morning…

Breakfast: 1 cup egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 5oz fresh spinach

Hour later: ½ scoop Whey Iso & 5g Leucine

Half-hour later, the ultimate leg workout:
Drinking Chain’d Out with added Leucine throughout
ALL sets taken to total failure (seriously!)

Giant “Arthur Jones” Sets (2 cycles)
20 reps leg press (8 plates each side), 20 reps leg extension (Cybex with 45lb plate), 15-19 reps Hack Squat (ass to grass, ONE plate each side).

Dorian Style RP set to 15 reps
1 x Standing Leg Curl
2 x lying leg curl
1x seated leg curl
1x Stiff legged deads (lower back started to give so I cut out a set of these – no rest pause)
1 x seated calf raises
1 x standing calf raises

Finish off
1 x leg extensions (8 reps to total failure with partials, drop then hold fully contracted for 30 seconds of hell)
1 x abductors

Cardio
60 min on the stepper at level 3
30 min on the treadmill (3 incline, 3.3 speed)

PWO: 1 scoop of Whey

Hour later, reefed begins…

1 cup Organic Peanut Butter cereal (low fat)
1 cup puffed wheat cereal
1 cup Skim Plus
1 bagel sandwich with Ham, FF American Cheese, L&T, Mustard
4 Low fat Nutra Grain Waffles
½ cup Sugar Free syrup
½ box of mini Perrogies
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
2 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cups

Take a break for a few hours, and it continues….

Chicken Quesadilla (2 whole wheat tortillas, 1 cup ff cheese, 5oz chicken, salsa, ff sour cream, little bit of my wifes homade guacamole!)
3 Low Fat Nutra Grain Waffles
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
1 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cup
½ box mini Perrogies
2 bites of a sweet potato
1 bite of a white potato
A mini ham & ff cheese sandwich on whole wheat Italian bread (maybe 4-5 bites)

A few notes:
Some mustard & reduced sugar ketchup on a few things
A scoop or two of whey mixed in there somewhere b/c I felt I wasn’t getting enough protein.
Another scoop of whey before bed.
30g of Leucine take in over the course of the day.
4 different multi vitamins

The morning after….
90 min empty stomach cardio (3-5 incline, 3.3-3.5 speed – varied)

Meal 1: 1 cup eg whites, 2 whole eggs
Meal 2: 5oz tuna, 15 almonds
Meal 3: 1 ½ scoops of whey, 15 almonds

That’s where I am as of this moment. Plans are 6oz Tilapia & 9oz spinach leaves for Meal 4 and 1 cup of egg whites and 1 scoop of whey for Meal 5.

So how did I do? Depleted enough? Enough food? Enough of a deficit the day after?

[Alex The Great]

The refeed recap.

So I completed my first non-cheat reefed on Sunday and it went well, pending results of course. I am not about to calculate all the macros, because I just don’t have the time, but I’ll list amounts along with the menu. First let’s start with the morning…

Breakfast: 1 cup egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 5oz fresh spinach

Hour later: ½ scoop Whey Iso & 5g Leucine

Half-hour later, the ultimate leg workout:
Drinking Chain’d Out with added Leucine throughout
ALL sets taken to total failure (seriously!)

Giant “Arthur Jones” Sets (2 cycles)
20 reps leg press (8 plates each side), 20 reps leg extension (Cybex with 45lb plate), 15-19 reps Hack Squat (ass to grass, ONE plate each side).

Dorian Style RP set to 15 reps
1 x Standing Leg Curl
2 x lying leg curl
1x seated leg curl
1x Stiff legged deads (lower back started to give so I cut out a set of these – no rest pause)
1 x seated calf raises
1 x standing calf raises

Finish off
1 x leg extensions (8 reps to total failure with partials, drop then hold fully contracted for 30 seconds of hell)
1 x abductors

Cardio
60 min on the stepper at level 3
30 min on the treadmill (3 incline, 3.3 speed)

PWO: 1 scoop of Whey

Hour later, reefed begins…

1 cup Organic Peanut Butter cereal (low fat)
1 cup puffed wheat cereal
1 cup Skim Plus
1 bagel sandwich with Ham, FF American Cheese, L&T, Mustard
4 Low fat Nutra Grain Waffles
½ cup Sugar Free syrup
½ box of mini Perrogies
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
2 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cups

Take a break for a few hours, and it continues….

Chicken Quesadilla (2 whole wheat tortillas, 1 cup ff cheese, 5oz chicken, salsa, ff sour cream, little bit of my wifes homade guacamole!)
3 Low Fat Nutra Grain Waffles
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
1 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cup
½ box mini Perrogies
2 bites of a sweet potato
1 bite of a white potato
A mini ham & ff cheese sandwich on whole wheat Italian bread (maybe 4-5 bites)

A few notes:
Some mustard & reduced sugar ketchup on a few things
A scoop or two of whey mixed in there somewhere b/c I felt I wasn’t getting enough protein.
Another scoop of whey before bed.
30g of Leucine take in over the course of the day.
4 different multi vitamins

The morning after….
90 min empty stomach cardio (3-5 incline, 3.3-3.5 speed – varied)

Meal 1: 1 cup eg whites, 2 whole eggs
Meal 2: 5oz tuna, 15 almonds
Meal 3: 1 ½ scoops of whey, 15 almonds

That’s where I am as of this moment. Plans are 6oz Tilapia & 9oz spinach leaves for Meal 4 and 1 cup of egg whites and 1 scoop of whey for Meal 5.

So how did I do? Depleted enough? Enough food? Enough of a deficit the day after?

Looks good to me now you just gotta see how your results are. If you lose anymore then 1.5 pounds then you know that you can increase your refeed time. If you don't lose enough weight then you know that you need to shorten your refeed time.

[lomox]

Looks good to me now you just gotta see how your results are. If you lose anymore then 1.5 pounds then you know that you can increase your refeed time. If you don't lose enough weight then you know that you need to shorten your refeed time.

Cool. Here's hoping for 198!

Thanks

[lomox]

Just so you know I weighed in this morning (Wed) 7lbs heavier than pre refeed (Sun). (Insert comment about gaining 20lbs by Myth) I'm not freaking out b/c it "feels" like its all in my muscles. They feel fuller and I'm getting better pumps this week (I thought my arms were going to explode on Tuesday!).

[Alex The Great]

Just so you know I weighed in this morning (Wed) 7lbs heavier than pre refeed (Sun). (Insert comment about gaining 20lbs by Myth) I'm not freaking out b/c it "feels" like its all in my muscles. They feel fuller and I'm getting better pumps this week (I thought my arms were going to explode on Tuesday!).

Make sure that you are weighing yourself every morning on an empty stomach. I usually drink a bunch of liquids before bed that keep me hydrated throughout the night even though I have to wake up and piss a few times but when morning comes I know my exact weight without all the water. When I record my weight I even record the time that I took my weight. It takes some people 2-3 days to drop the weight while it make take others 6-7 days to drop the weight. It all depends on the person. If you havent lost it all by sunday then you know to shorten your refeed period and try again. Its all about experimenting and finding what works for you.

[lomox]

Cool. Here's hoping for 198!

Thanks

197.5!

On 3 diff scales!

[Frosty]

A quick excerpt from Mauro DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet book, page 31:


"Needless to say, your body goes through a big transition weekly with this diet. That’s why it’s important to know when to stop on the weekend. If you find that you have an unlimited appetite on the weekend, that’s OK. You’ll kick the insulin into gear that much faster. But you must be careful. You do not want to lay down tremendous amounts of bodyfat.

That’s why you have to be aware of the point at which you begin to feel puffy and bloated. This point will vary greatly from person to person. Some people will feel hardly any response in appetite from the increased insulin. Others, however, will experience wide insulin swings and will find themselves hungry all the time. They can easily take in 10,000 calories a day.

Though we list 36–48 hours as the period during which you should carb load on the weekends, this could be cut back to as low as 24 hours for people like this. The important thing is, experienced bodybuilders can tell when they’ve had enough. They feel puffy and bloated and can even sense the fat coming on. At that point it’s time to stop and go back to restricting the carbohydrates. This point will vary widely from person to person."

[Alex The Great]

The Under 10 Calorie Chocolate Shake

2 Handfuls of Ice
20 Ounces of Water
1/4-1/2 Tablespoon Unsweetened Hersheys Cocoa
(Depending on how chocolatey you want it)
1-2 Tablespoons Walden Farms Chocolate Syrup or Chocolate Dip
(Depending on how chocolatey you want it)
Stevia to sweeten

After blending these ingredients in a blender add a few more ice cubes
Then add 1/2 Teaspoon Xanthan Gum

You will end up with a 40oz monster Shake with under 10 Calories

5 Calories for the Hersheys Cocoa
(if using 1/2 tablespoon)
Under 5 calories from the waldenfarms syrups (They contain trace calories)
(if using 2 tablespoons)

This shake is great for controlling a sweet tooth while on a keto diet and can help in between meals if you find yourself tempted to cheat or you could add protein and healthy fats to it for a meal. (This is also my pre-bed time shake and I love it). I also add davinci's pb syrup to it sometimes and it tastes great.

[Alex The Great]

dam i put this in the wrong section...o well. haha

[lomox]

The Under 10 Calorie Chocolate Shake

2 Handfuls of Ice
20 Ounces of Water
1/4-1/2 Tablespoon Unsweetened Hersheys Cocoa
(Depending on how chocolatey you want it)
1-2 Tablespoons Walden Farms Chocolate Syrup or Chocolate Dip
(Depending on how chocolatey you want it)
Stevia to sweeten

After blending these ingredients in a blender add a few more ice cubes
Then add 1/2 Teaspoon Xanthan Gum

You will end up with a 40oz monster Shake with under 10 Calories

5 Calories for the Hersheys Cocoa
(if using 1/2 tablespoon)
Under 5 calories from the waldenfarms syrups (They contain trace calories)
(if using 2 tablespoons)

This shake is great for controlling a sweet tooth while on a keto diet and can help in between meals if you find yourself tempted to cheat or you could add protein and healthy fats to it for a meal. (This is also my pre-bed time shake and I love it). I also add davinci's pb syrup to it sometimes and it tastes great.

Try Special Dark Cocoa - 10 less calories than regular (5 cal per Tbsp) and I happen to like dark choco better. And if you don't have Xan, Psyllium works too. I make these out of hunger desperation sometimes!