"Cheat meal" or refeed day?

[Frosty]

This is for the low carb guys when cutting.

What produces better fat loss results for you, a single "cheat meal" or a whole day refeed?

[Rattbones]

cheat meal, but I find it's harder to stary on my diet without the whole cheat day

[cobra]

to be honest I don't know. When I started the diet 18 weeks ago and experimented w/refeed, but don't know if I full understood the concept, a couple of hours, or a couple of meals, or refeed the whole day, all I knew was low fat high carb as far as the refeed. Anyway, basically after 2 weeks of tryin that, I went to just the cheat day, eating whatever I wanted my last meal of the day usually making that meal span close to 2 hours or more. Also, I keep a little of both methods in this meal by having my initial meal whatever I want fat and all, then tryin to keep the rest of my treats after that pretty low fat. Regardless, I went from 206 to around 170 or less, don't really weigh alot, just judge by the mirror mostly.

I have been thinking about tryin the refeed again though, seems fun LOL! just wonderin if I do though if I can still eat WHATEVER the last meal of the day, b/c that's when me and my g/f usually go out to dinner somewhere..

Anyway, guess I'm gonna go with cheat meal.

[Frizzy]

I would have to vote for refeed because it has a purpose. What I think alot of people are getting confused about are set hours to day. Everyone is listening to myth and in no way is this a bad thing he is a smart dude and knows alot of shit but not everyone can do what he does. His workouts are highly intense and he cannot do keto but still does pretty much a full day refeed. Alot of people are starting out to high hours wise and they get out of hand. Myth has stated in another thread begin with minimal hours 5-6 and record your progress if weekly you still keep droping weight you can slightly increase hours.

[lomox]

begin with minimal hours 5-6 and record your progress if weekly you still keep droping weight you can slightly increase hours.

Is that continuous hours or compiled hours? For instance, I did two 1.5 hour feeds, apx 3 hrs apart. So whould that be considered 6 hours or 3? Would it be beneficial to spread out the 2 meals over the course of 6 hours instead of the break?

[Legend]

My re-feeds are kinda like a mixture of both, but more like a single re-feed.

I have my re-feed at the very end of the day, on the same day every week, just like you would with a single re-feed, but I spread my re-feed out over a 2-3 hour period.

This has produced great results for me, and for others who I've done diets for.

[redline777]

people, the most anabolic burger i think is Bk Tripple whopper. a staggering 1750 calories!!!!

[Frosty]

I would have to vote for refeed because it has a purpose.

So does a cheat meal.

But purpose has nothing to do with the question. The question was what produces results?

[Darnelle B]

I think a refeed day is just an excuse for people to just eat junk the whole day.lol I also think it may set you back depening on person.... but I don't think your body need all that junk to refill you for the week.

One meal is enough I think. Save the refeeds for when your bulking. Lol ;)

[lomox]

I think a refeed day is just an excuse for people to just eat junk the whole day.lol I also think it may set you back depening on person.... but I don't think your body need all that junk to refill you for the week.

One meal is enough I think. Save the refeeds for when your bulking. Lol ;)

But a refeed isnt all junk like a cheat meal can be. Mine was all low GI carbs and some protien. Little goot fat, minuscule sat fat and zero transfat. If anything the cheat meal is more junk. IMO refeed is different than a cheat day. If they were the same I would just eat pizza & ice cream all day long!

[lomox]

One other thing, and this has ZERO to do with effectiveness (I can't speak to that until Sunday morning when I weigh in a week after my first refeed)....

The Cheat Meal is more accomodating to lifestyle. Meaning, you can eat out with your sig other once a week, go to family dinners, etc. Wheras the refeed is a bit stricter in what you can eat so you need to pay more attention, you still wont get some of your fav food, you pretty much have to dedicate the day to eating (no prob here!) and not for nuthin, it can be expensive.

If the refeed did work for me I will prolly alternate them or something. You know Cheat meal when I can an occasion or a craving and refeed when I just wanna eat cereal and waffles all day long. We shall see.

[Darnelle B]

But a refeed isnt all junk like a cheat meal can be. Mine was all low GI carbs and some protien. Little goot fat, minuscule sat fat and zero transfat. If anything the cheat meal is more junk. IMO refeed is different than a cheat day. If they were the same I would just eat pizza & ice cream all day long!

Well your right.... if your keeping it clean. Most people just take it as an open window to eat everything in site. Lol if I do that it will make me fat as shit. But if your body can handle it,then your the man.lol

[Alexander]

Cheat meal, But i go at the All you can eat Chinese Buffet.

So its 4-5 Plates of Food rice,Eggrolls,Pasta, Ice Cream ALOT OF SHIT.

After eating this, im good for a whole week without carbs.

I even go sometime 2 Week without a Cheal meal. So 1 time per month at the buffet

[Mr. Hyde]

I prefer the cheat meal. Im planning on doing the meal then 2-3 hours later do the dessert with a scoop of whey. Last week i did it all in one sitting and it took me over 3 hours to recover from it. If i do it like this i will "try" to make the dessert as low fat as possible. Last time i did a keto diet i just did the one meal in one sitting.

[Frosty]

Bump. Love to hear more peoples' experience.

[Alex The Great]

I think they both have their places depending on the type of diet that you are on. If you are on a zero-no carb diet 6 days a week then im a firm believer that the 7th day should be a refeed to restock glycogen levels. As long as the refeed is not excessive. Meaning if your not depleting all of your glycogen threw balls to the wall training and cardio during the week then eating a ton of simple sugars for an entire day is only gona make you gain weight. So if you have sufficiently depleted your glycogen stores then a refeed is great for loosing fat.

If you are on a carb cycling approach where you have no carb days, low carb days, and high carb days then a cheat meal would suffice. You do not need a refeed because most often times the high carb day will take care of restocking glycogen levels. So just pick one of the two high carb days that you will most likely have on a carb cycling rotation and have a cheat meal on that day. The lower the fat content the better the results from the cheat meal. Though some of us crave the fats its better to split them up so that the carbs get processed faster.

[Frosty]

Alex, just interesting to hear what people say works better for them. It's something I'm very interested in hearing more, and so far it seems generally speaking people get along with the cheat meal better when cutting. Not saying it won't work, but so far the answers seem to indicate more people do better with just the meal (although small sample group which is why I want more people to answer).

[lomox]

Alex, just interesting to hear what people say works better for them. It's something I'm very interested in hearing more, and so far it seems generally speaking people get along with the cheat meal better when cutting. Not saying it won't work, but so far the answers seem to indicate more people do better with just the meal (although small sample group which is why I want more people to answer).

Did they all try both or experiment?

[Frosty]

Good question. I know Legend said he never did a refeed before so I guess him and probably others can't say comparing the two.

[Legend]

Good question. I know Legend said he never did a refeed before so I guess him and probably others can't say comparing the two.

Yeah, I've never had an entire re-feed day.

But, my meal I have is spread out longer than what most would do when doing a single cheat. Thats why I call what I do a re-feed meal instead of a cheat meal.

[Frosty]

I've done longer meals, too. I now prefer the hit-and-run method. I'm done in under 30 minutes lol. I eat a ton real fast and then I'm done. Sometimes I can pack a ton of food into 20-30 minutes, though :D Depends on how I'm feeling for that cheat meal.

[Mr. Hyde]

Im starting to feel that people who have alot of fat to lose should do one longer re-feed meal. I think they should lower there fat to traces (for the whole day) and monitor the amount of carbs they take in till they get there bodyfat fat down to a reasonable level. Like a re-feed day but do it similiar to how legend does it. Like starting off 300-400g of carbs and then work there way up week after week. Im talking about all clean carbs plus fat free waffles, pancakes, FF ice cream ect. just trying to hit the numbers. I think some people could set themselves back depending on the one cheat meal. IMO

[lomox]

I gained a little bit too much weight with this refeed I did on Sunday. At least for my taste. It may be all water, but short of coming in 2lbs lighter this coming Sunday, I think I am going to try a different approach. Maybe once I am leaner I'll try this again. Here's what Iintend to do:Low carb, low fat all dayLots of green veggies all dayComplex carbs starting around 5PMAll low GI such as whole grain pancakes/waffles, sweet potato, oats, whole grain or Ezikel bread or cereal.No milk (last week I forgot I dont tollerate lactose too well!)Only fat will come from meat & fish oilDessert will be a box of ff sf jello pudding and maybe some pudding cups w/ ff reddiwhip & walden syrups...and I think that's it. I'm not freaking out but I can see I am alot smoother than before the refeed and my lower belly is pretruding a bit. My muscles are also fuller which feels great. THis week we try the above. Next week we'll see. I do know that on 8/22 I am paying for a big 1st bday party for my son at a catering all with a buffet, so that is definately a cheat meal day!!!

[Lou]

Depends on your level of physical activity during the week, bodyfat % and total carbs consumed over the week.

[lomox]

Okay here goes...

First off I want to give a huge juiced up thanks to Frosty, Alex the Great and Myth for some of the best info and responsivness out there. You are trully stand up guys. Let me know if you should ever need the services of a marketing exec or drummer and I'll be there!

Now on to the results...

I did my first refeed last Sunday. That morning I weighed in 200lbs pre refeed. The Tuesday after the refeed I was at 207lbs. As of Sunday morning, exactly one week from my 200lb weight, I weighed in at.... 197.5! (I haven't been that weight since maybe 6th grade)

To say I was amazed would be an understatement! After previous cheat meals I was down maybe 1lb, or in the week prior to the refeed I actually had no change at all. I am completely dumbfounded by these results. I think low fat is the way to go for me. My BF is at 12% acording to my Tanita Ironman scale (which is not super accurate, but good enough for a non-competitor). I had thought it was lower, but after seenig some photos of folks on here and the guestimates at BF, I'd say 12% is pretty close (although its hard to tell with me due to skin issues from being obese my whole life).

So you may be asking right now, Lomox, if it worked so well last week, what did you do this week? Even if you're not, I'll tell ya what I did... half of what I did last week! Honestly, I didnt have the desire to pack it away like I did last week. I also forgot about my intollerance for lactose last week, so I cut down on the ice cream and added some enzymes this week. That and I just got fuckin lazy with cooking! I did make this sick little low fat chocolate cheesecake brownie and a giant boston creme donut (2 sf bostn creme flavor Jello pudding cups sandwiched between 2 low fat pancakes with sf smuckers hot fudge smeared on top!) but other than that it was all premade stuff and lots of cereal (which is like my comfort food). I also started later this week going from 5PM - 9PMish, but taking it pretty slow (plus my kid was distracting me alot). I gotta say, I feel better this Monday than I did last. Hopefully eating LESS wont mean losing less (I doubt it), but its good to know I can eat more! Gets me thinkin for next week. Pretty sure some pasta will be on the menu!

As for the veerdict... I still dont know which is better as far as effectivness. I think low fat was the key for me, not neccessarily higher carbs or durration of feed. Remember I am not super lean by any stretch. Anyways, I copied my whole workout & cheat from last week over from another thread. Here's how it all went down:

Breakfast: 1 cup egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 5oz fresh spinach

Hour later: ½ scoop Whey Iso & 5g Leucine

Half-hour later, the ultimate leg workout:
Drinking Chain’d Out with added Leucine throughout
ALL sets taken to total failure (seriously!)

Giant “Arthur Jones” Sets (2 cycles)
20 reps leg press (8 plates each side), 20 reps leg extension (Cybex with 45lb plate), 15-19 reps Hack Squat (ass to grass, ONE plate each side).

Dorian Style RP set to 15 reps
1 x Standing Leg Curl
2 x lying leg curl
1x seated leg curl
1x Stiff legged deads (lower back started to give so I cut out a set of these – no rest pause)
1 x seated calf raises
1 x standing calf raises

Finish off
1 x leg extensions (8 reps to total failure with partials, drop then hold fully contracted for 30 seconds of hell)
1 x abductors

Cardio
60 min on the stepper at level 3
30 min on the treadmill (3 incline, 3.3 speed)

PWO: 1 scoop of Whey

Hour later, reefed begins…

1 cup Organic Peanut Butter cereal (low fat)
1 cup puffed wheat cereal
1 cup Skim Plus
1 bagel sandwich with Ham, FF American Cheese, L&T, Mustard
4 Low fat Nutra Grain Waffles
½ cup Sugar Free syrup
½ box of mini Perrogies
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
2 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cups

Take a break for a few hours, and it continues….

Chicken Quesadilla (2 whole wheat tortillas, 1 cup ff cheese, 5oz chicken, salsa, ff sour cream, little bit of my wifes homade guacamole!)
3 Low Fat Nutra Grain Waffles
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
1 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cup
½ box mini Perrogies
2 bites of a sweet potato
1 bite of a white potato
A mini ham & ff cheese sandwich on whole wheat Italian bread (maybe 4-5 bites)

A few notes:
Some mustard & reduced sugar ketchup on a few things
A scoop or two of whey mixed in there somewhere b/c I felt I wasn’t getting enough protein.
Another scoop of whey before bed.
30g of Leucine take in over the course of the day.
4 different multi vitamins


I am sure I will have some more questions for you guys, but seriously THANK YOU for all your advices!

[Alex The Great]

Okay here goes...

First off I want to give a huge juiced up thanks to Frosty, Alex the Great and Myth for some of the best info and responsivness out there. You are trully stand up guys. Let me know if you should ever need the services of a marketing exec or drummer and I'll be there!

Now on to the results...

I did my first refeed last Sunday. That morning I weighed in 200lbs pre refeed. The Tuesday after the refeed I was at 207lbs. As of Sunday morning, exactly one week from my 200lb weight, I weighed in at.... 197.5! (I haven't been that weight since maybe 6th grade)

To say I was amazed would be an understatement! After previous cheat meals I was down maybe 1lb, or in the week prior to the refeed I actually had no change at all. I am completely dumbfounded by these results. I think low fat is the way to go for me. My BF is at 12% acording to my Tanita Ironman scale (which is not super accurate, but good enough for a non-competitor). I had thought it was lower, but after seenig some photos of folks on here and the guestimates at BF, I'd say 12% is pretty close (although its hard to tell with me due to skin issues from being obese my whole life).

So you may be asking right now, Lomox, if it worked so well last week, what did you do this week? Even if you're not, I'll tell ya what I did... half of what I did last week! Honestly, I didnt have the desire to pack it away like I did last week. I also forgot about my intollerance for lactose last week, so I cut down on the ice cream and added some enzymes this week. That and I just got fuckin lazy with cooking! I did make this sick little low fat chocolate cheesecake brownie and a giant boston creme donut (2 sf bostn creme flavor Jello pudding cups sandwiched between 2 low fat pancakes with sf smuckers hot fudge smeared on top!) but other than that it was all premade stuff and lots of cereal (which is like my comfort food). I also started later this week going from 5PM - 9PMish, but taking it pretty slow (plus my kid was distracting me alot). I gotta say, I feel better this Monday than I did last. Hopefully eating LESS wont mean losing less (I doubt it), but its good to know I can eat more! Gets me thinkin for next week. Pretty sure some pasta will be on the menu!

As for the veerdict... I still dont know which is better as far as effectivness. I think low fat was the key for me, not neccessarily higher carbs or durration of feed. Remember I am not super lean by any stretch. Anyways, I copied my whole workout & cheat from last week over from another thread. Here's how it all went down:

Breakfast: 1 cup egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 5oz fresh spinach

Hour later: ½ scoop Whey Iso & 5g Leucine

Half-hour later, the ultimate leg workout:
Drinking Chain’d Out with added Leucine throughout
ALL sets taken to total failure (seriously!)

Giant “Arthur Jones” Sets (2 cycles)
20 reps leg press (8 plates each side), 20 reps leg extension (Cybex with 45lb plate), 15-19 reps Hack Squat (ass to grass, ONE plate each side).

Dorian Style RP set to 15 reps
1 x Standing Leg Curl
2 x lying leg curl
1x seated leg curl
1x Stiff legged deads (lower back started to give so I cut out a set of these – no rest pause)
1 x seated calf raises
1 x standing calf raises

Finish off
1 x leg extensions (8 reps to total failure with partials, drop then hold fully contracted for 30 seconds of hell)
1 x abductors

Cardio
60 min on the stepper at level 3
30 min on the treadmill (3 incline, 3.3 speed)

PWO: 1 scoop of Whey

Hour later, reefed begins…

1 cup Organic Peanut Butter cereal (low fat)
1 cup puffed wheat cereal
1 cup Skim Plus
1 bagel sandwich with Ham, FF American Cheese, L&T, Mustard
4 Low fat Nutra Grain Waffles
½ cup Sugar Free syrup
½ box of mini Perrogies
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
2 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cups

Take a break for a few hours, and it continues….

Chicken Quesadilla (2 whole wheat tortillas, 1 cup ff cheese, 5oz chicken, salsa, ff sour cream, little bit of my wifes homade guacamole!)
3 Low Fat Nutra Grain Waffles
4 low fat graham crackers
2 Skinny Cow Low Fat, no sugar added ice cream sandwiches
½ can FF Rediwhip
2 caramel flavored rice cakes
1 sugar free, ff Jello Pudding Cup
½ box mini Perrogies
2 bites of a sweet potato
1 bite of a white potato
A mini ham & ff cheese sandwich on whole wheat Italian bread (maybe 4-5 bites)

A few notes:
Some mustard & reduced sugar ketchup on a few things
A scoop or two of whey mixed in there somewhere b/c I felt I wasn’t getting enough protein.
Another scoop of whey before bed.
30g of Leucine take in over the course of the day.
4 different multi vitamins


I am sure I will have some more questions for you guys, but seriously THANK YOU for all your advices!

Good job. Keep doing it if its working for you. I enjoy my refeeds. Sometimes I push myself a little too much and end up leaning off the porch trying not to throw up (like I did last night) lol. Keep hitting the weights and cardio hard and doing your refeeds correctly and you'll keep getting results.

[Alex The Great]

Also just to touch. You lost 2.5 pounds pounds which is really good. If its working for you keep with it. Meaning don't cut down on the amount of time and the amount of food for your refeeds. If you can eat all of that and get away with loosing 2.5 pounds then you can even increase the length of your refeed by a small amount. Just take it one step at a time.

[Frosty]

Also just to touch. You lost 2.5 pounds pounds which is really good. If its working for you keep with it. Meaning don't cut down on the amount of time and the amount of food for your refeeds. If you can eat all of that and get away with loosing 2.5 pounds then you can even increase the length of your refeed by a small amount. Just take it one step at a time.

If you can lose fat well with a larger refeed, you'll have a much more anabolic effect on muscle and retain muscle better when cutting, IMO.

[zubbeyboy]

I have been playing with the refeed for about 6 weeks.If i keep the fat content low on my refeed i can eat like a machine all day Saturday and not put on any fat.Last Saturday refeed kinda sucked.I didnt eat near enough food.2 Saturdays ago i had a great refeed day.
Here is my refeed 2 weeks ago.
Meal 1.
Ham Cheese Omelet (didnt touch the hashbrowns)
Large Bowl Oatmeal with Raisins and Brown Sugar
4 Pieces Whole Wh Toast
1 Waffle with Strawberrys and Maple Syrup
Large Pepsi
Lg Orange Juice

Meal #2
6 Steak Tacos Taco Bell Fresca
2 Fresca Burritos
Large Pepsi

Meal #3
2 large bowls Chicken Teriyaki over steamed rice

Meal#4
Half Box Froot Loops w Skim Milk

Meal#5
Seafood Diablo over spinach pasta with Marinara
Side of Garlic Mashed Potatoes
Huge pc Chocolate Cake
1 Glass Merlot

Meal#6
2 Egg Sandwiches on Whole Wheat Toast

I know there was more.I cant remember everything.My family thought i lost my Marbles!!
The week before that i freaked out on chinese food on one of the meals and felt like shit for 2 days.
Man i look forward to Saturdays.BTW i eat no carbs the rest of the days (except carbs from Nuts PButter etc)

[GRAVESY]

I'm at the One Meal Deal. BF% is not where it should be for a Whole Day Ordeal.
Although when I went camping it was a weekend thing and it did not set me back at all.

Who Knows, Maybe in like another10lbs(hope bf% will be closer to what I am looking for), I will start working in a whole day every month, get ready for the holidays coming in the fall/winter. Hopefully I will make it come Sept.

[SallyAnne]

Cheat meal. A whole cheat day makes me feel like a whale for 4 days afterwards, and I'm just not fortunate enough to be able to lose fat as well on a full day's refeed.

[lomox]

If you can lose fat well with a larger refeed, you'll have a much more anabolic effect on muscle and retain muscle better when cutting, IMO.

So basically, eat as much as you can while still losing weight. Sounds good to me. I just get a bit neurotic and a really dont enjoy feeling so bloated after the refeed. I know, I'm nutz. But it takes me all week to drop that water.

I trully think I have put on size in my legs over the past 3 weeks though with these giant set HIT workouts. My thighs we rubbing together on the tradmil this morning! I know I am still holding water (205.5lbs this morn) but damn, that hasnt happened since I was 230 or better!

I'll see how I do this week. One question, if I lose less weight with the smaller refeed I did this past week, then what? Go back and increase? Drop again? That point is a bit confusing. If increase is in order, then what would be the purpose of skipping a refeed? I am also going to pick up the Anabolic Diet - but he saus 24 hour refeed is for the SLOWER metabolism types and upwards of 36 for others. Whats your take on that considering you do a few cheeseburgers and that it?

Thanks again Mr. Opportunity!

[Rick Prince]

It's been a cheat meal for me.

Being in the late 40's and having a slow metabolism, I have to be careful to not overdo the one meal. When I have chosen high sodium foods like Mexican, pizza, or chinese food, it has been very common for me to gain 6-8 lbs of water almost over night. It would not be so bad if my body released the water after 3-4 days, but that is not the case.

[Alex The Great]

So basically, eat as much as you can while still losing weight. Sounds good to me. I just get a bit neurotic and a really dont enjoy feeling so bloated after the refeed. I know, I'm nutz. But it takes me all week to drop that water.

I trully think I have put on size in my legs over the past 3 weeks though with these giant set HIT workouts. My thighs we rubbing together on the tradmil this morning! I know I am still holding water (205.5lbs this morn) but damn, that hasnt happened since I was 230 or better!

I'll see how I do this week. One question, if I lose less weight with the smaller refeed I did this past week, then what? Go back and increase? Drop again? That point is a bit confusing. If increase is in order, then what would be the purpose of skipping a refeed? I am also going to pick up the Anabolic Diet - but he saus 24 hour refeed is for the SLOWER metabolism types and upwards of 36 for others. Whats your take on that considering you do a few cheeseburgers and that it?

Thanks again Mr. Opportunity!

Yea i use to have trouble with the bloat too. I would feel like such a fat ass all bloated up during my refeed. You gotta take anti gas pills to control the bloat. It will help you out so much and will have you feeling alot better. Also drink a shit load of water the next few days. You will be pissing like a race horse and it will flush your system and have you feeling back to normal in no time.

With regards to the amounts of time of the refeed. Do whatever you did last week when you lost 2.5 pounds just add an extra hour to the refeed period. One step at a time. If it continues to work you can continue to add in hours.