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View Full Version : Interesting Idea for fat burner stack am/pm



Bacon Boy
02-21-2009, 02:11 PM
So as we know Thyroid hormone is key in fat oxidation and myslef not having means of accessing T3, I thought about what I could do to generate more naturally.

Lets start with what we know about Thyroid: It starts as Tyrosine a neurotransmitter, helps with thought processes, tyrosine bonds to iodine to create thyroid hormone.

Tyrosine is easily obtainable, now for the iodine? Turns out kelp is extremely high in iron, one 150mcg tablet has the RDA, so combining the two = Thyroid hormone. Lets takes this even further, guggulipid has also been shown to do the same thing as well, as well as lower LDL, and increase joint mobility, all great things for someone cutting!

Proposed stack: AM

3 reg hydroxycut (decent amount of stim to power cardio)
500 mg tyrosine
150mcg kelp
100mg grape seed
25 guggulipid
81mg asprin


Proposed stack: PM
3 Caffeine Free hydroxycut
500 mg tyrosine
150mcg kelp
100mg grape seed
25 guggulipid
81mg asprin
6mg melatonin
600mg Testofen


Feel free to evaluate and ask q's...

MikeS
02-26-2009, 05:09 PM
why grapeseed? why aspirin? melatonin? I never wake up off that stuff not sure if thats good or not? testofen? I guess the most important Q is - does it work?P!?P!

Bacon Boy
02-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Grapeseed is a potent antioxidant to yank any crap floating around from fat oxidation. Melatonin helps get to sleep has some anabolic properties to it as well! Testofen, or fenugreek extract is an herb proven to elevate GH, and test as well I seem to sleep well while taking it too, I have realized I am loaded up so much stuff its hard to judge, but I am seeing a noticeable difference regarding cardio in the AM, and I like the results I got off it, I would try to fine an extremely cheap source of tyrosine next time!

tribal
02-26-2009, 09:56 PM
why grapeseed? why aspirin? melatonin? I never wake up off that stuff not sure if thats good or not? testofen? I guess the most important Q is - does it work?P!?P!
what do you mean you can never wake up?

MikeS
03-03-2009, 05:09 AM
what do you mean you can never wake up?

Well for example if I take 3mg (the suggested dose), then I just sleep until my body decides to wake up. I dont hear the alarms etc no matter how long I've been asleep. I've taken 3mg and slept for 14 hours straight, woke up and my alarm had been going off for like 3-4 hours already!

I took 1.5mg, and I sometimes sleep well but feel groggy the next day, sometimes I dont sleep very well at all on it.

I've taken GABA and that works well but is a nightmare to get a hold of in the Uk. Zinc&Mag works well for a night or two but the effects diminish quickly. I tried a double dose of zinc on an empty stomach once and got a great nights sleep.

beau
03-03-2009, 07:30 PM
So as we know Thyroid hormone is key in fat oxidation and myslef not having means of accessing T3, I thought about what I could do to generate more naturally.

Lets start with what we know about Thyroid: It starts as Tyrosine a neurotransmitter, helps with thought processes, tyrosine bonds to iodine to create thyroid hormone.

Tyrosine is easily obtainable, now for the iodine? Turns out kelp is extremely high in iron, one 150mcg tablet has the RDA, so combining the two = Thyroid hormone. Lets takes this even further, guggulipid has also been shown to do the same thing as well, as well as lower LDL, and increase joint mobility, all great things for someone cutting!

Proposed stack: AM

3 reg hydroxycut (decent amount of stim to power cardio)
500 mg tyrosine
150mcg kelp
100mg grape seed
25 guggulipid
81mg asprin


Proposed stack: PM
3 Caffeine Free hydroxycut
500 mg tyrosine
150mcg kelp
100mg grape seed
25 guggulipid
81mg asprin
6mg melatonin
600mg Testofen


Feel free to evaluate and ask q's...


hows it working out for you?

davidyes
03-04-2009, 09:11 PM
Bacon Boy,

I think it's great that you are using your knowledge to create an innovative stack. Please remember though that there is a vast difference between the two molecules IRON and IODINE. So you may what to rethink your reasoning behind supplementation with kelp.

Bacon Boy
03-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Bacon Boy,

I think it's great that you are using your knowledge to create an innovative stack. Please remember though that there is a vast difference between the two molecules IRON and IODINE. So you may what to rethink your reasoning behind supplementation with kelp.

The most practical way to achieve supplemental iodine is kelp, tyrosine + iodine = thyroid hormone ...

Thus is why those on thyroid replacement therapy should refrain from kelp supplementation...

davidyes
03-04-2009, 10:47 PM
Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but as your first post states, "Kelp is extremely high in IRON" - not IODINE.

beau
03-05-2009, 01:53 PM
The most practical way to achieve supplemental iodine is kelp, tyrosine + iodine = thyroid hormone ...

Thus is why those on thyroid replacement therapy should refrain from kelp supplementation...

I ask again how is this stack working for you...

TaylorB
03-05-2009, 11:03 PM
Well for example if I take 3mg (the suggested dose), then I just sleep until my body decides to wake up. I dont hear the alarms etc no matter how long I've been asleep. I've taken 3mg and slept for 14 hours straight, woke up and my alarm had been going off for like 3-4 hours already!

I took 1.5mg, and I sometimes sleep well but feel groggy the next day, sometimes I dont sleep very well at all on it.

I've taken GABA and that works well but is a nightmare to get a hold of in the Uk. Zinc&Mag works well for a night or two but the effects diminish quickly. I tried a double dose of zinc on an empty stomach once and got a great nights sleep.

On Melatonin =


http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html)

"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."


"The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects"

Bacon Boy
03-06-2009, 08:40 AM
Its working really well at keeping h20 retention down. it does make me feel real goffy during fasted AM cardio...

MikeS
04-18-2009, 08:29 AM
On Melatonin =


http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html)

"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."


"The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects"

Interesting. Thanks for the taking the time to post that. I still have alot of the ON melatonin 3mg tabs...think I'll try splitting each tab into 4, then splitting those into halves which should give me 0.3-0.4mg...will try this tonight thanks again.

natron
11-17-2009, 02:06 AM
add selenium...

try taking your temperature every morning and see what it's at. Just be sure to take it first thing in the am upon wakening, try not to move much, keep track of your temperature and you can get a decent idea whether or not it is increasing t-3.

By the way Iodine+tyrosine does not necessarily= thyroid hormoneS (there are a few)

My educated guess, this is not working.

Bacon Boy
11-17-2009, 09:16 AM
It actually did net fairly good results,but you get tired of opening a dozen bottles, I think it worked a little bit better than Lipo 6 black did, but it was 3 pills instead of a half dozen, had I taken 4 lipo 6 black I think it would have then been better!

It works well, and was convenient when I had all this stuff just laying around...

juggernaut
11-17-2009, 09:48 AM
cant understand whats wrong with the EC stack, or clen for that matter. T3, is also pretty decent.

Bacon Boy
11-17-2009, 10:15 AM
cant understand whats wrong with the EC stack, or clen for that matter. T3, is also pretty decent.

ECA is banned for me, T3 and clen are illegal and banned substances for myself as well...

natron
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
It actually did net fairly good results,but you get tired of opening a dozen bottles, I think it worked a little bit better than Lipo 6 black did, but it was 3 pills instead of a half dozen, had I taken 4 lipo 6 black I think it would have then been better!

It works well, and was convenient when I had all this stuff just laying around...

I know the feeling, but it's about twice as bad, lol.

Well, I'm glad you seen results. I'm leaning towards your diet/training and cardio being in good shape, than your thyroid "elevating stack"

Even with a good dose of t-3, fat loss really isn't all that impressive, when taken as a standalone.

Bacon Boy
11-17-2009, 11:40 AM
I know the feeling, but it's about twice as bad, lol.

Well, I'm glad you seen results. I'm leaning towards your diet/training and cardio being in good shape, than your thyroid "elevating stack"

Even with a good dose of t-3, fat loss really isn't all that impressive, when taken as a standalone.

:yep: I agree 100% with you sir!

juggernaut
11-17-2009, 12:03 PM
ECA is banned for me, T3 and clen are illegal and banned substances for myself as well...
ahhh a natty. cool-try Dialene 7.

Bacon Boy
11-17-2009, 12:23 PM
ahhh a natty. cool-try Dialene 7.

ehh I dont need a fat burner anymore, this thread is from a long time ago I just hopped off stage 3 days ago at an impressive level of condition, can always be better, I lve scivation tho, maybe next time I'll give it a go!

natron
11-17-2009, 12:29 PM
ehh I dont need a fat burner anymore, this thread is from a long time ago I just hopped off stage 3 days ago at an impressive level of condition, can always be better, I lve scivation tho, maybe next time I'll give it a go!

Marc Lobliner is a great fellow, and Scivation is a great company, for sure.

natron
11-17-2009, 12:30 PM
If you just finished competing now is a great time to start using high dosed fish oil for it's "anti-fat gain" properties. 12 grams a day in divided doses with meals, stay lean buddy!

natron
11-17-2009, 01:00 PM
My points...

Endocr Pract. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Endocr%20Pra ct.');) 2003 Sep-Oct;9(5):363-9.
Effects of kelp supplementation on thyroid function in euthyroid subjects.

Clark CD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Clark%20CD%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Bassett B (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Bassett%20B%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Burge MR (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Burge%20MR%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To study the effects of ingestion of two different doses of supplemental kelp on the thyroid function of healthy euthyroid subjects. METHODS: We conducted a double-blind prospective clinical trial involving 36 healthy euthyroid subjects, who were randomly assigned to receive placebo (4 alfalfa capsules per day), low-dose kelp (2 kelp capsules and 2 alfalfa capsules per day), or high-dose kelp (4 kelp capsules per day) for 4 weeks. Thyrotropin (thyroid-stimulating hormone or TSH), free thyroxine, and total triiodothyronine were assessed at weeks 0, 4, and 6. Response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone stimulation, urinary iodine excretion, and basal metabolic rate were determined at weeks 0 and 4. RESULTS: TSH concentrations did not differ significantly between week 0 and week 4 in the placebo group (P = 0.16) but increased significantly in both the low-dose kelp (P = 0.04) and high-dose kelp (P = 0.002) groups. Free thyroxine concentrations decreased slightly but significantly after 4 weeks of placebo but were unchanged in the low-dose and the high-dose kelp groups. In contrast, total triiodothyronine levels did not differ significantly after 4 weeks of placebo or low-dose kelp therapy but were significantly decreased after high-dose kelp therapy (P = 0.04). Similarly, the thyrotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test showed no significant change in poststimulation TSH after 4 weeks in the placebo or low-dose kelp groups but revealed a significantly increased response after high-dose kelp therapy (P = 0.0002). The 24-hour urinary iodine excretion showed dose-dependent increases in the two kelp study groups. Basal metabolic rate did not change significantly in any study group during the 4-week study period. All thyroid laboratory values returned to baseline 2 weeks after cessation of kelp supplementation, except for TSH in the high-dose kelp group, which was significantly decreased. CONCLUSION: Short-term dietary supplementation with kelp significantly increases both basal and poststimulation TSH. These findings corroborate previous studies on the effects of supplemental iodide given to euthyroid subjects for a similar period. Further studies are needed to determine whether long-term kelp supplementation would cause clinically significant thyroid disease.

PMID: 14583417 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]