250mg a week

[BIGALO]

Has anyone took 250mg of test E a week and made gains or is this dose too conservative?

[Swiper]

Has anyone took 250mg of test E a week and made gains or is this dose too conservative?

you need at least 350mg ew for muscle growth IMO

[BarbellBeast]

Has anyone took 250mg of test E a week and made gains or is this dose too conservative?

Are you stacking it with anything? Is this your first cycle?

[tiramisu]

Cycle? 250mg is called Hormone Replacement Therapy, only 300 would probably be more generous.

[KIR]

I did a cycle of 250 mgs for 12 wks once and I did gain not like this last time when i did 500 mgs wk and the 250 cycle I kept 99% of the gains the 500 mgs i kept about 85% of the gains

[Pantera]

Cycle? 250mg is called Hormone Replacement Therapy, only 300 would probably be more generous.

HRT is quite a bit lower than 250mgs EW.

[BIGALO]

This isn't my first cycle i was curious what the results would be on just a basic low dose of test no other drugs for a longer cycle. Would the gains be more permanent because theres no extra test to aromatise or turn to dht.

[Pantera]

This isn't my first cycle i was curious what the results would be on just a basic low dose of test no other drugs for a longer cycle. Would the gains be more permanent because theres no extra test to aromatise or turn to dht.

Why wouldn't it aromatise or turn to DHT?

[BIGALO]

I did a cycle of 250 mgs for 12 wks once and I did gain not like this last time when i did 500 mgs wk and the 250 cycle I kept 99% of the gains the 500 mgs i kept about 85% of the gains
KIR do you think the weight you lost was just water? Was there any other benefits to the 500mg a week rather than the 250mg?

[BIGALO]

Why wouldn't it aromatise or turn to DHT?
I was under the impression aromatisation only occurs when there is excess amounts of test?

[IanMazia]

I was under the impression aromatisation only occurs when there is excess amounts of test?

250mg, albeit low, is still an excess amount of test then what your body would normally produce.

[Pantera]

I was under the impression aromatisation only occurs when there is excess amounts of test?

250mg is more than the body naturally produces.It is NOT HRT dose.There's docs that will give you what you pay for,but that's not exactly HRT.Just legal purchase of AAS.

[Pantera]

250mg, albeit low, is still an excess amount of test then what your body would normally produce.

Is Marcus 300 here?He takes those once every 6 months or so shots I believe.I figured it up one time and I think it was roughly 70mgs EW.

Ron Harris is on too and he's using the gel.His doc made him lower the dose after his check up.......Evryone knows the gel is useless.

[BIGALO]

Is Marcus 300 here?He takes those once every 6 months or so shots I believe.I figured it up one time and I think it was roughly 70mgs EW.

Ron Harris is on too and he's using the gel.His doc made him lower the dose after his check up.......Evryone knows the gel is useless.
70mg a week is that average for most? You would definitely get growth from 250mg EW then or would it be better to bump it to 375mg EW?

[PowerAdder]

iirc, the human male produces 7-11mg test per day on avg.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

250 is more than enough to make noticable gains. they may be slower but steady. alot of pros and everyday gym rats use this amount to bridge or nowadays call it cruise. And from talking with a few of my buds.they say the gains are solid and kept. idk thats the info i've been getting these days.

[NPCKnight]

go with 500mg

[BIGALO]

250 is more than enough to make noticable gains. they may be slower but steady. alot of pros and everyday gym rats use this amount to bridge or nowadays call it cruise. And from talking with a few of my buds.they say the gains are solid and kept. idk thats the info i've been getting these days.
Thanks this is what i thought , i'm not interested in instant mass just nice and steady, consistent gains that aren't all bloat.

[BIGALO]

go with 500mg
Is 500mg necesary wouldn't it be better to go with 250 until the gains stop then increase?

[Sledge]

How old are you? Whats your basic stats? what have you run before?

Run the 250 a week. First cycle I ever did was 250 per week of sust. Best cycle I ever did.


Make sure your diet and training are in order. and go for it. 250mg test a week will give you good quality keepable gains.

[Pantera]

70mg a week is that average for most? You would definitely get growth from 250mg EW then or would it be better to bump it to 375mg EW?

I was told by a knowledgeable guy that studies show 350mg to be the lowest dose with positve sides,but he also said the dose dropped quite a bit after that.I would go around there,350-375.If I were doing what you're wanting to,I would do roughly 350 prop or roughly 400 C or E.

[BIGALO]

How old are you? Whats your basic stats? what have you run before?

Run the 250 a week. First cycle I ever did was 250 per week of sust. Best cycle I ever did.


Make sure your diet and training are in order. and go for it. 250mg test a week will give you good quality keepable gains.
I'm 25, 5ft 7 180pds very lean (don't know actual bodyfat, visible abs and christmas tree). First cycle was 50mg of anadrol at 19 yrs old, which was a bad experience so i left the gear alone for a few years. Last year did 750mg eco-oils sust and 30 mg of d-bol (4weeks d-bol, 12 sust). Not keen on gettin that kind of bloat again.

[Pantera]

I'm 25, 5ft 7 180pds very lean (don't know actual bodyfat, visible abs and christmas tree). First cycle was 50mg of anadrol at 19 yrs old, which was a bad experience so i left the gear alone for a few years. Last year did 750mg eco-oils sust and 30 mg of d-bol (4weeks d-bol, 12 sust). Not keen on gettin that kind of bloat again.

I started with 420mg of prop and then later bumped it to 525mg with no noticeable bloat what so ever.Weight hasn't relfected bloat either.Slow steady gains.....The D bol is the number one cause for the bloat you had.

[KIR]

KIR do you think the weight you lost was just water? Was there any other benefits to the 500mg a week rather than the 250mg?

Ya some was water but what i am talking about was my size and overall look that did not change after I came off my dac told me that most hrt is around 70-85 mgs wk

[Sledge]

Yeah man, your 25 and buy your stats are muscular and lean but not huge.

Personally I'd say get your diet and training spot on. Then add 250mg Test a week. for 8-12 weeks. I can't see how you couldn't get good results. The name of the game here is slow steady keepable results. Not put on as much mass over the shortest amount of time possible.

I'd say run the 250. When you get good results run it again next time. When the good results start to slow down then up the dose and/or add something else to it.

[BIGALO]

I started with 420mg of prop and then later bumped it to 525mg with no noticeable bloat what so ever.Weight hasn't relfected bloat either.Slow steady gains.....The D bol is the number one cause for the bloat you had.
I think i will start it at 250mg and then bump it up after 4 weeks or so if needed, i don't want to take an AI if i can help it.

I didn't think it was the d-bol because the bloating was quite severe and it continued weeks after i discontinued it.

Your quad looks fuckin sick in your avi mate!:)

[BIGALO]

Yeah man, your 25 and buy your stats are muscular and lean but not huge.

Personally I'd say get your diet and training spot on. Then add 250mg Test a week. for 8-12 weeks. I can't see how you couldn't get good results. The name of the game here is slow steady keepable results. Not put on as much mass over the shortest amount of time possible.

I'd say run the 250. When you get good results run it again next time. When the good results start to slow down then up the dose and/or add something else to it.
With a low dosed cycle do you think it would be better to run it for a little longer than the usual 10-12 weeks that people recommend?

[NPCKnight]

250 is a mistake. you need a BIT more.

[MrDiamondCalves]

The average person produces between 50 - 70 mg of test a week. 250 a week is more than enough for your first cycle. I did that for my first and had some good gains. I have worked my way up to 750 a week now. Its all about you and your boy and what you feel is right for you. With that being said I would recommend 500mg for some good gains, but thats just me. Just remember its your body...

[Pantera]

I think i will start it at 250mg and then bump it up after 4 weeks or so if needed, i don't want to take an AI if i can help it.

I didn't think it was the d-bol because the bloating was quite severe and it continued weeks after i discontinued it.

Your quad looks fuckin sick in your avi mate!:)

IDK how long you plan on being on,but since you're taking the conservative route I would wait 6 weeks before bumping it.I bumped mine(prop)around 4-5 weeks I think,and it seemed to realy kick right after that which got me wondering if I should have waited a bit more because even with prop it takes time for the test to build up in the blood.

I don't personally know how the bloating with d bol works,but the bloating is the most known fact about d bol.Well besides the fact that Arnold used it :D

And thank you!Legs are pretty much my favorite muscle so the fact that they respond the best to training worked out I guess.

[red barraca]

300mgs at least,i would do 500mgs 2x aweek

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Yeah man, your 25 and buy your stats are muscular and lean but not huge.

Personally I'd say get your diet and training spot on. Then add 250mg Test a week. for 8-12 weeks. I can't see how you couldn't get good results. The name of the game here is slow steady keepable results. Not put on as much mass over the shortest amount of time possible.

I'd say run the 250. When you get good results run it again next time. When the good results start to slow down then up the dose and/or add something else to it.



I agree with you 100% . Alot of folks get this theory that 500mg for first cycle is a good idea. Well to each his own. I personally feel for a beginner that is not looking to compete or play any major sport you might say. But instaed just stay fit and still be able to put on lean slow steady muscle over time is a great dose. Hell 250mg will a well thought out diet where his carb intake are moderate to low; high protein and the required fat will produce some nice longterm gains.

Hey listen do the 250mg test and you can loose. if later you want to add more than great. but if it works you may want to stay their at the same dosages as the above poster said. and only add more when results start to halt.

[Mrbig]

I to wanted to try this havent done a cycle for nearly 2 years and Ive never done one properly just fucked around and did stupid shit so I was wandering does any1 have a figure at how much gains can be made on 250mg-375mg a week

[LittleChris]

200 mg of test every 7 days is plenty to keep test levels through the roof. take arimidex to keep estrogen down, and hcg to keep your sack from dying. currently at 230 lbs, with abs and growing.

-LC

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

I to wanted to try this havent done a cycle for nearly 2 years and Ive never done one properly just fucked around and did stupid shit so I was wandering does any1 have a figure at how much gains can be made on 250mg-375mg a week


This question cannot be answered as it is an open issue for everyone. everbody is different and will achieve a certain level of muscle mass. idk but i would be more concerned about my own goals in what i would like to achieve.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

[quote=HANEYCOLEMAN;42614]I agree with you 100% . Alot of folks get this theory that 500mg for first cycle is a good idea. Well to each his own. I personally feel for a beginner that is not looking to compete or play any major sport you might say. But instaed just stay fit and still be able to put on lean slow steady muscle over time is a great dose. Hell 250mg with a well thought out diet where his carb intake is moderate to low; high protein and the required fat will produce some nice longterm gains.

Hey listen do the 250mg test and you can loose. if later you want to add more than great. but if it works you may want to stay their at the same dosages as the above poster said. and only add more when results start to halt.

[Jack of All]

Lets remeber that not all us process test the same. I am on 200mg a week HRT and it gets me to a total test of 500 with a reange os 250-1100. Appearantly I am a fast metabolizer. So in my case 200mg/wk really is not enough. I would say the average HRT dose is around 100mg a week. And from what I have found this will keep most guys in the 800-900 range.

I also think I made good gains on 200mg a week for the first 6-8 weeks. I think I put on about 5lbs lean. But you also have to take your starting point into consideration. My test level was 214 to start and it was that low for at least 1 year based on how I was feeling. So me just getting to mid range levels helped me put some weight on.

Dont think that just becasue you are taking a low dose that you will not have excessing estradiol or DHT. My estrogen was twice the level that men should have and I have since been on .5mg arimidex EOD.

[iusealittle]

you need at least 350mg ew for muscle growth IMO


yes 350 is the min to ANY muscle gains witch at that dose will be very little.....

use.

[Fluid Karma]

I'm on 300mg week cyp and 1000iu week HCG with adex eod. I'm going to add deca soon. Marcus300 is on nebido (test undecanoate) 4- 1000mg shots a year that are time released and have alot of kick. Steady blood level through-out. Marcus300 swears by them.

I plan on trying that next!

[Mrbig]

This question cannot be answered as it is an open issue for everyone. everbody is different and will achieve a certain level of muscle mass. idk but i would be more concerned about my own goals in what i would like to achieve.

I undersyand but is thea anychance that it would have no effect at all lets say I wanted 10lbs of lean muscle in 10weeks is that possible on 250mg a week or would I need more

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

I undersyand but is thea anychance that it would have no effect at all lets say I wanted 10lbs of lean muscle in 10weeks is that possible on 250mg a week or would I need more



well your diet will play a huge role. and i would have to suggect that if you are trying to put on 10 pounds of muscle in 10-weeks. then first you should bulk not cut. and then you may want to up the test and maybe add a anabolic like deca,eq,or maybe tren since you are trying to put on the most mass in the shortest time. 250mg test is what most use for hrt,cruising and at that dose you will put on lean muscle tissue; but it wont be overnight.

[iusealittle]

I undersyand but is thea anychance that it would have no effect at all lets say I wanted 10lbs of lean muscle in 10weeks is that possible on 250mg a week or would I need more


250 will do ZERO for muscle growth. it will make you keep it up,but thats it. if all you have is 1 10ml bottle you will need to get more. 1 bottle at 375/1.5cc wk will only last 6.5 wks...... not long enough, so do it right get more and up the dose.

use.

[MartyMcFly]

Since some of you say 250mg/week is a little too much, how much is that 50mg/wk do compared to 200mg/wk? Is there really much difference?

[militantmuscle]

ANY test is better than NO test, as far as protein synthesis is concerned.

Put it this way, your body produces on average 7mg of testosterone daily endogenously, that's 50mg/wk. 200mg/wk is 4x that.

[Sledge]

I undersyand but is thea anychance that it would have no effect at all lets say I wanted 10lbs of lean muscle in 10weeks is that possible on 250mg a week or would I need more

10lb of lean muscle in 10 weeks. yeah ok. at least be realistic

[militantmuscle]

10lb of lean muscle in 10 weeks. yeah ok. at least be realistic

Agreed, I wouldn't have that expectation in a short duration, instead make that your long term goal fo the year perhaps.

Ten pounds of lean body mass in ten weeks is simply not feasible.

[Sledge]

Not without muscletech :D

[militantmuscle]

lol

[Mrbig]

r you guys serious even with gear you guys cant gain 10lbs of muscle in under a year man that must suck haha I know im gunna get pounded for sayin this but I can gain that naturally in around 6-8months so with gear that must be acheivable in half the time

[iusealittle]

Since some of you say 250mg/week is a little too much, how much is that 50mg/wk do compared to 200mg/wk? Is there really much difference?


who said it was to much? and for what...... HRT? some people get that much from a doc. you will not grow on 250. only thing that will grow is the amount of bonners your gettin.....

use.

[iusealittle]

ANY test is better than NO test, as far as protein synthesis is concerned.

Put it this way, your body produces on average 7mg of testosterone daily endogenously, that's 50mg/wk. 200mg/wk is 4x that.


some more but most less...

use

[Johnny Phenomenon]

ANY test is better than NO test, as far as protein synthesis is concerned.

Put it this way, your body produces on average 7mg of testosterone daily endogenously, that's 50mg/wk. 200mg/wk is 4x that.

I respectfully disagree. There isn't this thin line between replacement and performance enhancing dosing. You are either dosing to gain, or dosing to replace. Everything else is there a waste of time, money, and scar tissue.

[militantmuscle]

I respectfully disagree. There isn't this thin line between replacement and performance enhancing dosing. You are either dosing to gain, or dosing to replace. Everything else is there a waste of time, money, and scar tissue.

Are we talking about patients diagnosed with hypogonadism, or healthy males producing normal levels of testosterone? If you are a healthy male producing normal levels of testosterone, a 250mg/wk regimen of testosterone does not serve the function of replacement...

You can maintain muscle without the use of exogenous testosterone. If you add 250mg/wk to a healthy male's natural testosterone levels, you don't think he will experience any kind of difference whatsoever? 250mg/wk will not enhance performance? There are many studies out there that prove otherwise.

[Mrbig]

how can it not enhance performance if az all of you are saying that the average male produces 50mg a week of test then 250mg is 5x the natural now if you can gan muscle naturally at a slow rate with 50mg of test wuldnt 5x that amount produce faster gains thru the increased protein sythesis and faster recovery time?

[militantmuscle]

Bingo.

[Firestarter]

i took 250mg of test E a week and EQ for first cycle ... i gained 8kg

now im on my second cycle ... 250mg of test, 300mg of deca and Dbol
im saying great results and im barely into the cycle ...
this cycle was put together by an IFBB pro who trains me, so i like to think he knows his shit

[Pantera]

You can tell who the drug abusers and drug users are in this thread.....

[Jack of All]

You can all quit arguing I have the answer:D I posted this in a diff thread but it applies here. You can grow on any amount of test that is above your natural baseline. See info and the study link below if you dont believe:

I believe it has been proven that you can grow on smaller amounts of test. Would you continue to grow forever? No. I am sure you also have to take into account AAS experience and ones begining level of fitness. But according to this study: "Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001)."

So the guys on 125mg a week gained 7.48lbs in 20 weeks.
the guys on 300mg gained 10.4 lbs in 20 weeks
The guys on 600mg gained 17.38lbs in 20 weeks

This is lean mass not counting fat mass. Read the whole study here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...,f1000m,isrctn (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431?dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000,f1000m,isrctn)

[MartyMcFly]

who said it was to much? and for what...... HRT? some people get that much from a doc. you will not grow on 250. only thing that will grow is the amount of bonners your gettin.....

use.

that's what I meant, for HRT. I'm getting 200mg/week of Test Cyp. Since I took an interest in bodybuilding, I've been only doing the cutting portion of it. I haven't had a bulk period for the reason that my BF is too high. So my question is, can I still grow while I cut, on 200mg/week? I know Test Cyp is not the prefered drug for cutting, but I'm on HRT, not a cycle.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

that's what I meant, for HRT. I'm getting 200mg/week of Test Cyp. Since I took an interest in bodybuilding, I've been only doing the cutting portion of it. I haven't had a bulk period for the reason that my BF is too high. So my question is, can I still grow while I cut, on 200mg/week? I know Test Cyp is not the prefered drug for cutting, but I'm on HRT, not a cycle.


Hey their i dont want to bust your bubble or discourage you from achieving youyr ultimate goal. But lets be real for a moment. First yes the test will help you. But if it for hrt and you are on hrt because your natural test level is low. Then i bet my own money that the 200mg per week wont make a significant impact. That should be obvious as your question should warrant any further confusion and frustrations. Now i will say that your diet should be the main focuse and if by chance you are able to increase your dosages than yes you can probably make more gains than compared to your 200mg hrt.

[RazorRipped]

Hey their i dont want to bust your bubble or discourage you from achieving youyr ultimate goal. But lets be real for a moment. First yes the test will help you. But if it for hrt and you are on hrt because your natural test level is low. Then i bet my own money that the 200mg per week wont make a significant impact. That should be obvious as your question should warrant any further confusion and frustrations. Now i will say that your diet should be the main focuse and if by chance you are able to increase your dosages than yes you can probably make more gains than compared to your 200mg hrt.

BRAVO! One of the first great posts you made on this board! Big Props to you, and EVERYONE who says YOU CAN'T GROW on 200-250 mgs Test.

[RazorRipped]

You can maintain muscle without the use of exogenous testosterone. If you add 250mg/wk to a healthy male's natural testosterone levels, you don't think he will experience any kind of difference whatsoever? 250mg/wk will not enhance performance? There are many studies out there that prove otherwise.

What are you talking about? Once the person implemented 250 mg test, his natty output is shut down.

So you are saying a healthy male will be producing his 50 mg a week on top of 250 a week? LMFAO


Some in this thread don't realize Test enathate is only 71 % bioavailable. Do the math on 200 mg Test:)

[ritch]

BRAVO! One of the first great posts you made on this board! Big Props to you, and EVERYONE who says YOU CAN'T GROW on 200-250 mgs Test.

What if I take 251mg of test? (jk)

[RazorRipped]

What if I take 251mg of test? (jk)

According to some in this thread(You know, the delusionally misinformed), You'll grow like a fucking weed!:)

[Firestarter]

According to some in this thread(You know, the delusionally misinformed), You'll grow like a fucking weed!:)

i know you know your stuff, but i think that is a stupid thing to say .....

your saying people wont grow on 250mg of test?

[Pantera]

BRAVO! One of the first great posts you made on this board! Big Props to you, and EVERYONE who says YOU CAN'T GROW on 200-250 mgs Test.

This makes no sence.A human can grow on 50mg of test that his body produces,but no way can anyone grow on 71% of 250mg! :confused:

Help us understand why the human body can't grow on 177.5mgs when it can and does grow on 50mgs.......What are we missing here?

I feel like this is a damn good riddle or some shit.

[Demorak]

Has anyone took 250mg of test E a week and made gains or is this dose too conservative?

I used 350 test e and made very good gains

[iusealittle]

thats 350 not 250......

use.

[Johnny Phenomenon]

I'm interested to see what else RR and Marcus have to say about this. It would be cool to have Heavy here too.

[BULLDOZER]

WTF? If you can grow off of 250 per week then you can grow off of creatine and protein. Just fill that bitch up and shoot it all. Why waste a perfectly good pin?

[militantmuscle]

BOTTOM LINE:

If you are utilizing 250mg/wk for HRT dosages, then NO you probably won't grow off of 250mg/wk.

If you are a healthy male with normal testosterone levels and you use 250mg/wk of testosterone then YES you CAN grow.

Nobody mentioned to what degree of growth (like a weed, etc.) we are simply examining does it occur. Are you maximizing your genetic potential with 250mg/wk, most likely NOT.

[Sledge]

I'd have to add to all the people that say they are gaining 10+ lb of muscle in 10 weeks. If your able to make that sort of gain in such a short amount of time then you had no business using gear anyway. If you weigh 230lean and you jump to 240lean in ten weeks thats a huge difference and i don't beleive you.
If you weigh 130 and jump to 140 in 10 weeks you shouldn't have been touching gear in the first place.

Now if you are on your 23rd cycle and weigh in at 260lb and you run 250mg a week then no you waont get any benefit. BUT if you have been training for a few years built a decent base and run 250mg a week you WILL get some good quality muscle gains. Sure if you run 1000mg you will get higher gains. But thats the American more is better and get bigger faster mentality. The aim of BB is suposed to be get good quality keepable healthy gains. NOT get as big as possible in the shortest amount of time.

And no one is on 250mg a week for HRT. You might have got a dodgey doc to perscribe you 250mg a week and wright it off as HRT but it's not HRT it's well above HRT levels.

[toxic Avenger]

Amazing the controversy this thread is causing. There are some studies that went to 500 mg/w of Test E and peak blood plasma concentrations of testosterone were 5-6 times that of he normal base line of the eugonadal controls. that's a lot of test. There have also been studies that looked at an increasing range of dose i.e. 100, 300, 600 mg/w. Gains in lean mass and strength were seen in the 300 and 600 mg/w groups. 600 mg/w group had higher gains. Not all that surprising. Blood plasma concentrations of testosterone were linear with dose. I don't recall the slope of the curves but, estimating, I would say that 300 mg/w will give a blood plasma level of 2-3 times base line levels of the normal eugonadal male. That's a pretty good boost and if memory serves is enough to stimulate increases in GH and IGF-1 secretion. I'm sure you all know that GH and IGF-1 secretion increases with AAS use.

In discussions with men on TRT dose of ~200-250 mg/w of Test E or C, the thought is that the first 6 months to 1 year feels like a cycle. After that that dose just does not do it so there is an adaptation.

Any user that regularly uses over 1000 mg/w will not get much from 250 a week. To him it will feel pretty much like barely enough to keep him from "crashing".

[Pantera]

I'm interested to see what else RR and Marcus have to say about this. It would be cool to have Heavy here too.

I was always told to do 350 of prop as a bre minimum,including from HI and RR when I was looking into it.I went with 420 and later bumped it to 525 though.


WTF? If you can grow off of 250 per week then you can grow off of creatine and protein. Just fill that bitch up and shoot it all. Why waste a perfectly good pin?

Yeah....because over 3 times your natural test production is the same as protein and creatine :rolleyes:

[Pantera]

BOTTOM LINE:

If you are utilizing 250mg/wk for HRT dosages, then NO you probably won't grow off of 250mg/wk.


If you are a healthy male with normal testosterone levels and you use 250mg/wk of testosterone then YES you CAN grow.


This absolutely does not matter.If you inject exactly what your body nturally produces,then you are going to be shut down.Your body will no longer be producing test "healthy" or not.We're talking about increasing test levels from roughly 50mg to roughly 177mgs.Aparently this makes you not able to grow in the world of drug abusers......

[Pantera]

And no one is on 250mg a week for HRT. You might have got a dodgey doc to perscribe you 250mg a week and wright it off as HRT but it's not HRT it's well above HRT levels.

These people won't listen to that.I have already tried.

[heavyiron]

WTF? If you can grow off of 250 per week then you can grow off of creatine and protein. Just fill that bitch up and shoot it all. Why waste a perfectly good pin?
lol, true

[militantmuscle]

This absolutely does not matter.If you inject exactly what your body nturally produces,then you are going to be shut down.Your body will no longer be producing test "healthy" or not.We're talking about increasing test levels from roughly 50mg to roughly 177mgs.Aparently this makes you not able to grow in the world of drug abusers......

When I said HRT dosages I meant for the individuals who actually need HRT, i.e. older men with abnormally low testosterone levels.

[Jack of All]

And no one is on 250mg a week for HRT. You might have got a dodgey doc to perscribe you 250mg a week and wright it off as HRT but it's not HRT it's well above HRT levels.

I wouldnt assume such things. My PCP Dr diagnosed me hypogonadal and after several weeks of feeling like crap because he was dosing too low. We finally ended up with 200mg a week just to get me to below midpoint range. I guess some of us just have fucked up bodies:( I would assume I would need about 250-300mg a week to get to the high side of the total test range.

[Pantera]

I wouldnt assume such things. My PCP Dr diagnosed me hypogonadal and after several weeks of feeling like crap because he was dosing too low. We finally ended up with 200mg a week just to get me to below midpoint range. I guess some of us just have fucked up bodies:( I would assume I would need about 250-300mg a week to get to the high side of the total test range.

This is true.....some respond to AAS as if they are the magic pill/oil,and others don't get too much of anything.

[BULLDOZER]

I was always told to do 350 of prop as a bre minimum,including from HI and RR when I was looking into it.I went with 420 and later bumped it to 525 though.



Yeah....because over 3 times your natural test production is the same as protein and creatine :rolleyes:

Look junior, I never said they were the same thing. Maybe you are too dimwitted to comprehend this but let me try again. I said "IF YOU CAN GROW OFF OF 250MG PER WEEK YOU CAN GROW OFF OF CREATINE AND PROTEIN". Read it over and over slowly a few times, I am sure you will get it eventually. Who the hell do you think you are telling me about steroids? YOU WERE CUM IN YOUR DADDY'S NUTSACK WHEN I RAN MY FIRST CYCLE!

Oh, I forgot you are some little 190lbs if soaking wet kid who is running their very first cycle so you must know everything there is to know about steroids. Newflash junior, this is the adult section. Come back when you become one!

btw, reduce your dose down to 250mg and let us all know how that turns out for ya. I am sure you will peak out at 175lbs once you do that.

Bahahahahaha

dumb kids

[RazorRipped]

^^^^ HAHHA...I "should" say something about you post, being a FL and all. But it's fucking true what you said! hahahahhaa

[Sledge]

Umm the guy who wrote this thread is "I'm 25, 5ft 7 180pds very lean". So yes he could grow with protien and creatine. Just like 95% of the people here who use gear. The guy is going to use no matter what anyone says. So on 250mg a week with good diet AND creatine and protein he'll get good quality keepable gains. better than if he just used protien and creatine and most likely not much if any worse than if he used 350 0r 400mg a week.

[Pantera]

Look junior, I never said they were the same thing. Maybe you are too dimwitted to comprehend this but let me try again. I said "IF YOU CAN GROW OFF OF 250MG PER WEEK YOU CAN GROW OFF OF CREATINE AND PROTEIN". Read it over and over slowly a few times, I am sure you will get it eventually. Who the hell do you think you are telling me about steroids? YOU WERE CUM IN YOUR DADDY'S NUTSACK WHEN I RAN MY FIRST CYCLE!

Oh, I forgot you are some little 190lbs if soaking wet kid who is running their very first cycle so you must know everything there is to know about steroids. Newflash junior, this is the adult section. Come back when you become one!

btw, reduce your dose down to 250mg and let us all know how that turns out for ya. I am sure you will peak out at 175lbs once you do that.

Bahahahahaha

dumb kids

Get your feelings hurt easy I see?Well I'm sorry pumpkin....Your maturity shines through with that post.How did I not know you're a mature responsible adult?Things that make you go hmmm?
People are saying that you can not grow off 250mgs.If you can grow off of 50,then 250 won't make any diference?It's not what I would do,but to say you won't get a damn thing from it is just rediculous.That is exactly what the people in this thread are saying.You go back and read slowly untill you comprehend......A guy posted a study showing that you can grow.A guy on another site says he has 2 friends at 250mg for "HRT" and the gains have been slow and steady ever since.Protein and creatine are nowhere near the same as jacking your testosterone levels up past what your body is capable of producing.That's like comparing elmers school glue to screws.

I'm still waiting to hear why the human body can grow off of 50mgs,not 250mgs,but it can on 350mgs and more?Did you learn this as I was a cum stain?Now to the drug abusers that infest these boards,no you wouldn't get shit.Give it to a lifetime nattie who has some damn good size on him,I would bet my life on it that he will get extra growth from 250mgs as his body is used to working with much less.Again all you drug abusers are used to using way way WAY more than that ontop of orals and other injectables.......The OP has a pic.He's not exactly competition ready....

[Pantera]

^^^^ HAHHA...I "should" say something about you post, being a FL and all. But it's fucking true what you said! hahahahhaa

You should also adress why the human body can grow off it's natural tet production,but not well over at 250mgs,but then it will at 350mgs and over...Or are you just going to take the bitch way out of everything?Trying to start drama as a forum leader?

[BULLDOZER]

Panters,
For fucks sake son just admit that you don't have the experience to back up the utter nonsense you are posting about! Here is the point, since you are too dim to get it on your own. YOU ARE RUNNING YOUR FIRST REAL CYCLE EVER! You come on this board spewing your ignorant shit acting like you are some know it all and you are still on your first cycle. Give me a fucking break! Like I posted before. Reduce your dose down to 250mg and let us know how that works out for ya. Hell, reduce it down to 50 since you think that will work. hahahahahaha, you will shut yourself down and start losing what little muscle you do have. Be a man and tell everyone here the truth junior. You don't have jack shit for experience and you are listening to some 160lb kid over the net telling you this garbage and then your are parroting it to all of us. I fell for this shit myself so its no big deal, we all buy bullshit in our lives. I had some science geek on MD tell me to cut on 400mg per week. Well, I had never gone that low before but he had fancy charts and whatnot so I listened to him. Guess what? It was the biggest dog cycle I ever did in my 25 years of running shit. You can believe whatever you want bro but don't sprew that nonsense here. I come here because Palumbo was the first guy I ever saw come out in a main stream mag and tell it like it is. He says crank that bitch up to 1200mg per week and guess what? The magic starts happening! I have gone a hell of a lot higher and experienced some amazing changes in my body by listening to the old dogs who have tons of experience and I suggest you do the same or you will be spinning your wheels like the 160lb guy on the net with the fancy charts. You may not understand it now but I am helping you by telling you the gospel truth. You may not like my words and how they come out but I know what works and the sooner you listen the sooner you can have the look you are going after. I know plenty of guys who will lie and say they are only running this or running that and it is total garbage to throw off the competition. I had one national level guy tell me he was only ruunning 300 per week so I asked if that was his cruise and he said no. Hahahahahaha, yeah right more like 1300. Wake up bro if you want to grow like the big dogs.

[Pantera]

What diference does it make if this is my first or 30th cycle?That's not what this is about.It doesn't apear this guy has a whole lot of juicing experience either.I wouldn't even try it myself,but that's not what this is about either....The 50mgs is roughly what your body produces.Based off that,going from 50mg to 177.5 mgs has to make a change?Maybe not "steroid" like gains,but they absolutely have to be better than at a natural 50mgs.I mean do you not see where I'm comming from?Yes this is my first cycle,I started at 420mgs,then later bumped it to 525 being greedy.I have bigger goals than 250mg will give me.That doesn't change the fact that going from roughly 50 to roughly 177 has to have some sort of an impact?I would think better than adding protein and creatine too.I didn't get this opinion from anyone else,it just makes sence to me that going from 50 to 177 in test would make a diference.Probably not much for a big guy with juicing experience though.I would still think if he had been nattie for a while,then started 250 it would make some sort of a diference.IDK though.That just makes sence to me.
I'll up my dose as needed in the future.

[RazorRipped]

...Or are you just going to take the bitch way out of everything?


Strike #1 kiddo. Unlike baseball, you only get two strikes with me. We on the same fucking page now? Great!

[PowerCoach]

Alot has to do with your androgen receptors....and your starting Test Levels...(hand in hand)
There are reasons bloodwork pre-therapy is critical to first understand what your course of action needs to be.
This goes for any medication, as prescribed by a physician.
Would you put gallons of gasoline in your gas tank without first looking at the guage and determining your needs?

[Pantera]

We on the same fucking page now?

You have belittled guys in other threads for saying that you can not grow in between cycles.Now you're belittling people for saying that 250mgs which is over natural production won't do anything."

"You CAN'T grow on 250mgs"-RR

You never back up your statement,and when asked you threaten to ban?Is the book of which page you are one called "Kill those who question"?

Debates work by giving your opinion and then backing them up.Not by making a statement and then threatening to ban when asked to back that statement up.Is that the direction this site has already headed?If so,I will leave.No need to ban.I have been through this before.

[Johnny Phenomenon]

Alot has to do with your androgen receptors....and your starting Test Levels...(hand in hand)
There are reasons bloodwork pre-therapy is critical to first understand what your course of action needs to be.
This goes for any medication, as prescribed by a physician.
Would you put gallons of gasoline in your gas tank without first looking at the guage and determining your needs?

I think that is a very important and overlooked fact.

[Sledge]

Alot has to do with your androgen receptors....and your starting Test Levels...(hand in hand)
There are reasons bloodwork pre-therapy is critical to first understand what your course of action needs to be.
This goes for any medication, as prescribed by a physician.
Would you put gallons of gasoline in your gas tank without first looking at the guage and determining your needs?


Very good point

[RazorRipped]

You have belittled guys in other threads for saying that you can not grow in between cycles.Now you're belittling people for saying that 250mgs which is over natural production won't do anything."

"You CAN'T grow on 250mgs"-RR

You never back up your statement,and when asked you threaten to ban?Is the book of which page you are one called "Kill those who question"?

Debates work by giving your opinion and then backing them up.Not by making a statement and then threatening to ban when asked to back that statement up.Is that the direction this site has already headed?If so,I will leave.No need to ban.I have been through this before.

No one is being belittled by anyone saying you aren't growing off 250 mg Test.


The reason why I didn't answer your questions is becuase I depise you. I always have. You are nothing but a MUTT who littered MD.

As for banning. Yep, you get shitty with any MOD here, guess what? Your fucking history. MD trolls aren't wanted here.


Now keep your word and get moving on back to fucking MD where you belong. I see you post once more, off goes the gun. Try me punk!

[Pantera]

If that's how this site is ran,then ban me.I'm no bitch.Don't act all shocked when you treat everyone like dirt trying to prove you have the bigger dick and somone decides to not stand for it.All you do is belittle people.It's how you communicate.You have done nothing but try to start drama in this thread,and even after I call you out on it,you continue to.
"do unto others what has been to you" ;)
You know your shit when it comes to drugs for BB'ing purposes,no doubt about that.I have asked you for advice in the past which you answered,and I have referred to you numerous times to back up what I was saying or to make a point,but man you have a real jerk way of going about things.Don't act all shocked by that either.I know you know that you're an asshole.You probably have a shit eating grin on your face right now as you go to hit the ban button which will just break my heart.

This is what YA'LL have to look forward to guys!Disagree and get banned.Get the shit kicked out of ya but you damn well better not even voice your opinion....These are sites for debates and to learn and teach.But I see this is just another anabolicminds.Check that one out if ya'll enjoy feeling like a jew begging for the mercy of Hitler.I can't believe Dave would stand for this.......He has to be uninformed......