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KIR
02-22-2009, 12:40 AM
I. Always Cycle off of AS for at least 6 weeks.

( 12 weeks is preferable IMO.)

The rule of thumb regarding how to cycle on and off of steroids is that one should cycle off of the AS for the same amount of time that they were on.

Most of us cheat at times though and do not stay off of the juice for the recommended time each time that we cycle.

Sometimes a goal is trying to be met which will require a quick return to the AS in order to not lose gains. At times like this, I strongly recommend that one stay off of the juice for at least 6 weeks in order to give the pituitary-axis a chance to rest and to restore the cholesterol levels somewhat to normal.

During these shorter rests I always use an additional herbal supplement to aggressively detoxify my system. One such detox would be the use of ESSIAC tea and Milk Thistle.

Amazing things can be done in the body with these two together in just 4-6 weeks. Additionally, I use the clomid, nolvadex, and hcg therapy for 4 weeks, and then continue with Tribulus/DHEA stack of 1250mg/day for the next two weeks, along with Saw Palmetto.

I have yet to have problems with my natural test after 6 weeks of such therapy and cleansing. The cleansing, however, is mostly in order to keep my liver, kidneys, spleen, etc healthy.

If one must stay on something, then many have had good test recovery while still using 100-200mg of Primobolan/week while simultaneously doing a recovery cycle like the one mentioned above.


II. Always Rotate Injection Sites

Many of us find a favorite spot to "go into" and then we tend to just use that for quite awhile. I saw one guy who had a huge area of scar tissue on his hip due to injecting over and over again in the same area.

Using the same spot can cause abscesses, and at the very least excessive scar tissue which makes it hard to inject into and hard for the oil to disperse from.

Read the section on the Steroid Encyclopaedia site which is devoted to "Proper Injection" and you will find much relief when it is time to rotate sites.

Also, most oils can be drawn up in a 22 gauge needle and typically a one inch length is sufficient.

When using a watery substance such as Winstrol, Sten, Test Suspension, or the like, one can easily use a 23-25 gauge needle and save themselves some pain.

Multi-use vials of Winstrol usually require a 23 gauge but the Zambon can be utilized with a 25 gauge.

Another important rule is to not inject more than 2ml into the deltoids or other smaller muscles. For amounts in excess of 2ml the glutes are recommended. And remember to inject at the rate of 1ml per ten seconds and leave the syringe in for 10 seconds when finished.

This will help the oil to disperse somewhat and will minimize how much of the oil "follows" the syringe out of the injection site when pulling it out.

More about these techniques and locations of injection can be found on the SE website under the injection article.


III. Do Not Talk Loosely About Your AS Usage

I know a guy in the gym who goes around talking to it seems like everyone about his AS usage. One day he began to tell me about his cycle and I had to tell him that there was a State Policeman working out well within earshot of us.

The cop was in his workout clothes and this guy had no idea.

Now that I see what kind of person he is (big mouth) I always tell him that I am off of everything and going natural for a while.

The reason is this...

You can be sure that if he tells others about his own usage then he would have no conviction about telling people about my usage.

We live in a time that is especially sensitive to illegal activity it seems and the "ears" are out there. The last time I wired money with Western Union the lady was kind of suspicious about it and said that many of the rules have changed with regard to wiring money since 9/11.

It was the first time that I ever had to tell the clerk what I did for an occupation. Bodybuilders cannot be too careful right now.

A recent bust of an AS supplier in Boston revealed in the newspaper article that local police had noticed his increased muscularity prior to the bust.

Apparently this had increased their interest and suspicion as he began to match a certain profile of an Anabolic Steroid user.

If anything I try to play my life around AS's down, and I don't ever keep them where they can be found or " happened" on by anybody in my life.

Another interesting point that I feel compelled to make is the thought that although I believe that our significant others need to know about our AS use to better understand mood swings and libido changes, one should first evaluate very carefully what kind of person that they are involved with. There are women (and men) out there who will turn you in to the authorities for vengeance when they are jilted.


IV. Don't Lose Sight of Long-Term Goals

There have been times when I wanted to throw reason to the wind and just juice my ass off. At just the right moment though I would remember that I have two children who I adore and who need me around for awhile.

Or, I would remember that our health is precious and fragile, and that although the body is an incredible and resilient machine, it does have it's limitations.

When we are tempted to sacrifice all for this hobby of bodybuilding, we need to remind ourselves that to truly master something we need to be in control of it rather than it to be in control of us.

I have so far been lucky to have bodybuilding and AS in my life as an enhancement to my life and relationships, and as
a springboard to other successes. I work hard to keep it that way and hope that I never have to suffer unmanageability as a result of lopsided values in this sport and from supplementation.

I continue to explore bodybuilding and the juice as a way to life. If one of your long-term goals is to be a professional bodybuilder, then at least balance it out with the thought that you will still want to retire with your health someday even if you do achieve the pro card.


V. Help the Younger Generation Use Up Their Natural Genetics First

Part of what will help this sport stay honorable is if the veteran players in the game help the younger bodybuilders stay clean from AS until they are at least over 25.

I have had young guys ask me if I knew about AS or could I help them get some AS. I always tell them "no" and feel somewhat sad that they feel the need at such a young age to use the juice.

Help them explore their natural genetics and use those up first. Until one is really good at "instinct training" the whole realm of AS use and advance bodybuilding that comes with it is a dangerous playground.

Unfortunately, there is a whole group of young people right now who don't even want to train if they cannot do a cycle. These youth are greatly endangering themselves and it is important that the law enforcement community sees us veterans collectively as an opposing agency to such foolishness and risk.

We are not just a bunch of "meat heads" with no compassion or concern for our youth. Let's not be ashamed to do what is right when the time comes.

The image and sport of bodybuilding depends largely on what the seasoned veterans do with the knowledge that they have.

Sites such as S E are a perfect example of a professional and organized attempt at caring for the sport and others.

Such a website is an attempt to groom the mind of the AS user in a responsible and healthy way. It is an action of community spiritedness, and it defies the reckless endangerment of previous AS usage by many of our predecessors who did not have our knowledge.

We owe much to the many who went before us as they tested the waters with trial and error.


VI. Do Not Skimp on Doctor's Visits

We spend hundreds and thousands on cycles in order to look and feel great. Let's not forget to maintain our inner health and spend to necessary money for health insurance and the necessary exams/bloodwork.

It seems that a lot of bodybuilders skimp in this department and leave much to chance or to be discovered at the level of it becoming a serious illness.

The old adage that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" is appropriate here.


VII. Remember the Three Components of Fitness

The times when I have gotten the most out of my AS usage is when I am balanced in the three areas of fitness: Cardio-vascular health; muscular strength/endurance; and flexibility.

Keeping up with serious cardio and doing plenty of stretching will greatly aid in the overall health of an AS user.

Our cholesterol levels will be more manageable with the increased cardio, and the flexibility of frequent stretching will greatly aid with circulation as well as assist withinjury prevention.

I have found that even when my cholesterol levels aretemporarily high after a cycle, they are very readily brought back to normal with proper nutrition and aggressivecardio workouts. Staying with lean, more expensive cuts of meat and fish at all times also greatly helps in this department.

With regard to flexibility, I recommend to my clients thatthey stretch at least three times/week for 20 minutes each time. Also, it is important to hold any given stretch for atleast 20 seconds at a time as durations less than that only serve to make the muscle contract and tighten up, thus being counterproductive to flexiblity and injury prevention.

When one holds a stretch steadily for over 20 seconds they will feel a slow release and stretching of the muscle beginto happen. This is true stretching at its best and is what we should aim for.


VIII. Do Not Train Lazy or Become Disorganized In Your Training

rich_fox117
02-22-2009, 01:37 AM
being a young user myself i have to admit it was stupid for me to start this early but i already have 1 under my belt, my future son (IF i have one) will not make the same mistake

that being said i go by another off cycle time, time on+PCT= time off

its a tad long, like 16-18 weeks long on average, depending on what you do, but if your not a pro, follow it, why not keep your bodies natural test running for as long as it can until you NEED to get on the juice? the juice shouldn't be an end all be all way to gain, if you cant grow without it, you sure the hell cant grow with it

banger
02-22-2009, 09:54 AM
Can any of the injectable's be taken orally? If so which one's?

PA Viking
02-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Can halo be used to bridge between cycles, or is it too suppressive to let the hpta recover?

sassy69
02-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Can any of the injectable's be taken orally? If so which one's?

Winstrol is the common one "Yes you can drink the winny", but it is water-based, not oil-based.

You raised an interesting question because I think we all assume you shoot oil-based.
On searching I found this reference.. interesting:

Oral Testosterone in Oil Plus Dutasteride in Men: A Pharmacokinetic Study (http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2610?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=estrogen+male+muscle+metabolism&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=560&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT)
John K. Amory and William J. Bremner

Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Divisions of General Internal Medicine and Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Nutrition, University of Washington Medical School, Seattle, Washington 98195
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. John K. Amory, University of Washington, Box 356429, 1959 NE Pacific Street, Seattle, Washington 98195. E-mail: [email protected] ([email protected]) .
Testosterone (T) is not administered orally, because it has been reported to be rapidly metabolized by the liver. We hypothesized that sufficient doses of T or T enanthate (TE), administered orally in oil, would result in clinically useful elevations in serum T. We also hypothesized that coadministration of dutasteride (D) with T or TE would minimize increases in serum DHT seen previously with oral administration. Therefore, we conducted a pharmacokinetic study of oral T and TE in oil, with and without concomitant D, in normal men whose T production had been temporarily suppressed by the GnRH antagonist acyline. Thirteen healthy men (mean age, 24 6 yr) were enrolled and assigned to oral T (n = 7) and oral TE (n = 6) groups and were administered 200, 400, or 800 mg of either T or TE in sesame oil in the morning on 3 successive days 24 h after receiving acyline. Blood samples for measurement of serum T and dihydrotestosterone were obtained before T or TE administration and 0.5, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 24 h after administration. Subjects were then administered D for 4 d before repeating the sequence of T or TE doses with D. Serum T was significantly increased in a dose-dependent fashion with the administration of oral T or TE in oil. Coadministration of D with oral T or TE significantly increased the 24-hr average serum T levels compared with administration of T or TE alone [average serum T after 400 mg dose, 8.7 3.0 nmol/l (T) and 8.3 5.7 nmol/l (TE) vs. 16.1 5.8 nmol/l (T +D) and 15.0 8.8 nmol/l (TE + D); P < 0.05 for T vs. T and D]. The administration of oral T or TE in oil combined with D results in unexpected and potentially therapeutic increases in serum T. Additional studies of this combination as a novel form of oral androgen therapy are warranted.

BarbellBeast
02-22-2009, 07:04 PM
Can any of the injectable's be taken orally? If so which one's?

Also Dbol like Reforvit-B.


Can halo be used to bridge between cycles, or is it too suppressive to let the hpta recover?

Are you talking Halotestin or Halodrol?

PA Viking
02-22-2009, 08:51 PM
Halotestin

rich_fox117
02-22-2009, 10:21 PM
Can halo be used to bridge between cycles, or is it too suppressive to let the hpta recover?

i personally dont believe in bridging unless your gonna stay off for an extensive period of time after your done with multiple cycles or your a pro


just my 2 cents

BarbellBeast
02-22-2009, 11:36 PM
Why would you want to use Halotestin in a bridge? It's not too supressive, but still:confused:

banger
02-23-2009, 04:35 PM
anyone else out there with some good insite to my question?... thanks

BigJD69
02-23-2009, 05:10 PM
I agree about everything GOOD POST!!! Esp. the younger generation being educated about AAS!

indianamonster1986
02-23-2009, 05:12 PM
How bout, do not forget to aspirate the needle no matter how long you have been shooting for.

rich_fox117
02-23-2009, 05:25 PM
anyone else out there with some good insite to my question?... thanks

no dude they cant, thats why they are injectable

NOT oral

rich_fox117
02-23-2009, 05:25 PM
How bout, do not forget to aspirate the needle no matter how long you have been shooting for.

YEAH! thats a HUGE one! i know some guys that actually dont! fuckin morons...

banger
02-23-2009, 10:59 PM
why can't a oil based compound be injested orally? hell i take 8-10g of omega -3 per day. i know they are designed to be injected, but if taken orally will we benefit? according to the study previously posted it appears that there is some benefit.

Sledge
02-23-2009, 11:22 PM
I'll add some to that

1)Plan your cycle.

Make sure you can stick to it for the 12 weeks. if you have a 4 week holiday to planned in the 5th week of your cycle then delay your cycle till you get back. if work or family commitments will stuff up your diet and training for a few weeks then delay your cycle.

2) Have everything you need for your cycle including anti E and PCT BEFORE you start.

3) Eat and train properly.
Put just as much planning into your training and diet as you do your cycle. Without good training and diet program you may as well just tip the gear down the toilet now. If you cant stick to a diet and training program for 12 weeks than you shouldn't be using gear.

4) Don't be in a hurry. This is a game of diminishing returns. start low and get good quality keepable gains and use more when needed. It takes years to build a good physique, if you think you can do it in a few months by using more gear then bodybuilding isn't for you. Bodybuilding is a long term lifestyle if your after a quick fix then your going to be disappointed and drop the whole thing.

rich_fox117
02-23-2009, 11:38 PM
why can't a oil based compound be injested orally? hell i take 8-10g of omega -3 per day. i know they are designed to be injected, but if taken orally will we benefit? according to the study previously posted it appears that there is some benefit.

because its fuckin stupid, if you wanna get the most bang for your buck and BUY an INJECTABLE, inject it

if you want an oral, buy one, winstrol, Dbol, anavar i believe is one to (i MAY be wrong, if i am dont flame me) but they are designed to be either injected or ingested, get whatever you want and do what its supposed to be used for

i wouldnt buy transmission fluid and pour it into my gas tank, and i wouldnt buy gasoline for my transmission! come on, its common sense...

banger
02-24-2009, 03:56 AM
lol, your missing my point. i certainly wasn't looking for your kind of response. i thought maybe someone with a real background chemistry could explain it to me. i'm not asking the question because i want to do it! i'm asking the question because i want to know exactly why. i didn't think it was necessary for me give an in depth history of myself and chemical usage/background. i do realize that often on message boards its difficult to communicate in a normal fashion. so if you don't have a educated answer please don't waste my time.

Sledge
02-24-2009, 11:23 AM
because the compunds you are talking about are not bio availiable through ingestion. They need to be injected.

banger
02-24-2009, 01:26 PM
Sledge, thanks for the input.. did you read that study sassy69 posted at the top of this thread? those were all oil based compounds that were orally injested. i know the control group was small but it was interesting to see that there was a increase in male hormone levels.

rich_fox117
02-24-2009, 01:30 PM
oh lord i could have told you that years ago, dont try and outsmart me little man, its simple why you cant ingest them

if they are not designed to be ingested the stomach acids and the liver break down everything useful in the compound before it ever makes it to your blood stream, making it useless

oral steroids however are designed to survive all that and the first pass through the liver, making them useful to swallow, but its a pain on your liver for it

look at the top of the post, this is common sense steroid rules, for use, dont ask a theoretical question here, why did you think i assumed it was for use? god what an asshat....

Sledge
02-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Yeah I did read it. I must admit I don't understand a lot of the mumbo jumbo part. What I would like to see is a blind study comparing the oraly ingested compared to injected compared to a placebo in a group of men all undertaking the same diet and not doing any training.
Not saying that of you drink 400mg of test e a week you won't get any rise in serum test, but is it a usefull level for TRT or performance enhancement.

average serum T after 400 mg dose, 8.7 3.0 nmol/l (T) and 8.3 5.7 nmol/l (TE) vs. 16.1 5.8 nmol/l (T +D) and 15.0 8.8 nmol/l

It seems to indicate that T+D will raise yourserum test to within the normal range for a adult male for a day. BUT 400mg of test E a week injected would raise your serum T to about 5-10 times above normal range if injected. (thats based on a rough calculation of results of my own blood tests while running 500mg Test E)

MartyMcFly
02-24-2009, 02:25 PM
nice set or rules to go by, I will definitely come back and revisit this in the future

banger
02-24-2009, 03:50 PM
oh lord i could have told you that years ago, dont try and outsmart me little man, its simple why you cant ingest them

if they are not designed to be ingested the stomach acids and the liver break down everything useful in the compound before it ever makes it to your blood stream, making it useless

oral steroids however are designed to survive all that and the first pass through the liver, making them useful to swallow, but its a pain on your liver for it

look at the top of the post, this is common sense steroid rules, for use, dont ask a theoretical question here, why did you think i assumed it was for use? god what an asshat....
__________________
Man do you have a lot to learn.

Biggie908
03-02-2010, 03:29 AM
question about site usage... i pin 2x a week. is this a safe way of pinning?

mon R glute
thu R delt

mon L glute
thu R delt

repeat

Biggie908
03-02-2010, 03:48 AM
Always Rotate Injection Sites how often?