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View Full Version : Is anyone NOT selling something?



lomox
08-20-2009, 04:27 PM
Call me a cynic, but I tend to trust the advice of people that don't have a vested monetary interest in me taking said advice. I have been looking into alot of books and websites based on some reccommendations here and DAMN, everyones selling something!

Mauro DiPasquale has a huge line of products and his website is like an infomercial site.

Poliquin also has an enormous amount of products for sale, and they aint cheap.

Research MAX-OT training and it becomes clear that iwas developed as an AST marketing tool (and a great one).

So aside from Frosty, ATG, Myth and the like (unless they are subversively pushing certain authors, which I doubt) who out there is not trying to profit excessively from thier "advice"?

I think Louie Simmons fits this category. He clearly trains first and then offers some specialized equipment that litterally does not exist anywhere else or is hard to find.

dropshot001
08-21-2009, 03:17 PM
i would say that dante trudel is not selling anything. he doesn't even take on new trainees anymore so he's not even selling his services. i trust everything he says. a lot of dc guys are over at IM which is sponsored by trueprotein so in a somewhat roundabout sense trueprotein is being promoted, but it is also a good company so that might add into it.

juggernaut
08-21-2009, 03:27 PM
Eric Broser is a scumbag shark waiting to eat..I hate that fuck. I got banned (and received (boohoo infractions) on IM for giving him my personal opinion on his bullshit PRRS "invention" (which it isnt) of periodization , hate the little punk bitch.

Anyhooo, Dante is the man, Poloquin used to be amazing; Lyle McDonald, is fucking hilarious, as he makes no bones about selling something to you-but at least he doesnt lie, and Chad Waterbury is pretty cool. Javorek is pretty decent too.

Karuk
08-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Nothing is free.

RxMuscle is a great place for info but the owners did not start the site out of the goodness of their heart. Their approach is much more desirable than the BS Muscletech ads.

lomox
08-25-2009, 01:48 PM
Nothing is free.

RxMuscle is a great place for info but the owners did not start the site out of the goodness of their heart. Their approach is much more desirable than the BS Muscletech ads.

I know. So how do you distinguish biased and unbiased info/advice? That's the point.

I think the conclusion is that you just have to make your judgement on a case by case basis. For example: I just bought Rob Faigin's 2 books and DVD. I NEVER buy literature (you can always find it somewhere on the web), but a few things motivated my purchase:

1) Unsolicited reccomendation by forum members (to each other no less, not even to me directly)

2) Reading chapter 21 which he released for free (from what I have read already this seems to be exactly what I am looking for and it is WELL researched)

3) He's not selling anything else related to the books (i.e. the supplements that go with them)

4) - to a lesser extent - the money back guarantee if I am dissatisfied

5) His website is so shitty he needs the $$$

juggernaut
08-25-2009, 03:30 PM
One book I heartily recommend anyone getting is Patrick Ward's Take Charge book. It's a great read.

GENESIS
08-25-2009, 03:52 PM
you already made this thread....

lomox
08-25-2009, 04:04 PM
Actually made this one first... check the first post in the other one.

GENESIS
08-25-2009, 04:12 PM
regardless. let one of the two die. if you dont sell something, your not gonna make money, and you wont be able to live. anybody who doesnt understand this obviously has failed life. even if you think your not selling something, your still selling yourself and your time. so yes everyone is selling something. its up to the customer to discern who is the best salesman

lomox
08-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Dude, WTF is your problem? If someone posts in this one why should I respond? Its not like I am resurrection or bumping them. And the other gets more responses in the bigger forum (and technically this has nothing to do with Diet & Fat Loss - so I really posted it in the worng place to begin with)

That's a terrible attitude to have my man (and thats coming from an uber capitalist raised on Ayn Rand). Everyone is NOT selling something (I am, but not on this board, I head marketing for a large media company - I sell lots of shit, including... AIR!). For instance, what does Frosty gain by telling me to only do big cheat days if I'm under 10%bf? He sells not one more Honda becuase of it. And I'm sure he could care less about what I think of him. He's just benevolently sharing what he's learned. I do this way to often myself, giving out diet and training advice to friends and associates. And I want nothing in return - except maybe for them to respect my time and actually follow some advice. It may seem that everyone has some sort of profit agenda, and its true of the majority, but its not everyone.

Yes, everyone needs money. But your profitability is not tied to everything you do. I make money selling ads to clients and developing marketing strategies... has zero to do with telling someone to lose the carbs and lose the weight.

And would the best salesman be the guy you buy from or the other way around?

juggernaut
08-25-2009, 05:07 PM
peace and love my brothers lets all go to Woodstock....Have you looked around and seen whats going in the world? Even though I mentioned several GOOD authors on my OP, these people didnt sell out (except Broser the prick), You cant knock anyone for trying to take your money, if they have a legit product to sell.

GENESIS
08-25-2009, 05:22 PM
Dude, WTF is your problem? If someone posts in this one why shouldnt I respond? Its not like I am resurrection or bumping them. And the other gets more responses in the bigger forum (and technically this has nothing to do with Diet & Fat Loss - so I really posted it in the worng place to begin with)
you can get a mod to move it, but dont worry about it, im sure you dont mind crusing through both threads to see what people say, so forget i said anything about it.
That's a terrible attitude to have my man (and thats coming from an uber capitalist raised on Ayn Rand). Everyone is NOT selling something (I am, but not on this board, so you are selling something, but just dot target people on bodybuilding forums to do it? I head marketing for a large media company - I sell lots of shit, including... AIR!). For instance, what does Frosty gain by telling me to only do big cheat days if I'm under 10%bf? personal satisfaction. He sells not one more Honda becuase of it. And I'm sure he could care less about what I think of him. He's just benevolently sharing what he's learned. I do this way to often myself, giving out diet and training advice to friends and associates. And I want nothing in return perhaps its because your "job" is selling other stuff, so you dont feel the need to turn a profit on advice - except maybe for them to respect my time and actually follow some advice.aka personal satisfaction It may seem that everyone has some sort of profit agenda, and its true of the majority, but its not everyone.

Yes, everyone needs money. But your profitability is not tied to everything you do. anything anybody does will have an end result. making a profit is much better then assuming a loss/giving away items. I make money selling ads to clients and developing marketing strategies would you call going on BB forums to sell related items to people who actually use them a good marketing strategy? ... has zero to do with telling someone to lose the carbs and lose the weight.

And would the best salesman be the guy you buy from or the other way around?

^^^

lomox
08-25-2009, 05:22 PM
You cant knock anyone for trying to take your money, if they have a legit product to sell.

I know. But wouldn't you say 90% aren't legit? At least in the fitness industry?

How about this... I am a musician as well. My ultimate goal is to make a living off of that. Not be a rockstar or have a house on cribs, just support my family and be middle class. Now that means I have to sell my art. But the purpose of the art itself isn't to be profitable (thats called pop music or canned music), its to express emotions you can't put into words and hope others relate to it. So therein lies a conundrum. I need to make a living, but I don't want to "sell" art. I would get much closer to my goal just giving it away (if the goal is to be heard). If "selling" is the priority that where selling out comes into play. "Let me change this section in 5/4 time to 6/4 becuase more people can relate to 6/4 time than an odd time signature". That comprimises the music. Its an extremely fine line... and one that makes me NOT want to tie music to income (but then, when the hell do you make music??!?)

This is just a discussion. I don't have the answers. I am curious as to what others think. Is there something wrong with asking?

lomox
08-25-2009, 05:30 PM
"would you call going on BB forums to sell related items to people who actually use them a good marketing strategy? ..."

YES! One of the best I have seen! But 90% of the shit being sold is crap. I think the AST model or the Scivation model are fantastic from a marketing perspective. But say AST suddenly discovered that Max OT is suboptimal. They are now too heavily invested in it to change thier position. So the $$ is leading the information, which is where problems start.

perhaps its because your "job" is selling other stuff, so you dont feel the need to turn a profit on advice

Indeed it is (not that I like it much, but I'm good at it) and indeed I don't. But the fact remains that my advice is unbiased and unmotivated by profit.

so you are selling something, but just dot target people on bodybuilding forums to do it?

Yes... I guess I should be clearer. Its when whatever your selling correlates to your advice that creates a problem.

you can get a mod to move it

I should have

CallofDuty4
08-25-2009, 05:41 PM
I actually sell Kitchen cabinets.....Do you need your Kitchen done??

GENESIS
08-25-2009, 07:15 PM
"would you call going on BB forums to sell related items to people who actually use them a good marketing strategy? ..."

YES! One of the best I have seen! But 90% of the shit being sold is crap. I think the AST model or the Scivation model are fantastic from a marketing perspective. But say AST suddenly discovered that Max OT is suboptimal. They are now too heavily invested in it to change thier position. So the $$ is leading the information, which is where problems start.

perhaps its because your "job" is selling other stuff, so you dont feel the need to turn a profit on advice

Indeed it is (not that I like it much, but I'm good at it) and indeed I don't. But the fact remains that my advice is unbiased and unmotivated by profit.

so you are selling something, but just dot target people on bodybuilding forums to do it?

Yes... I guess I should be clearer. Its when whatever your selling correlates to your advice that creates a problem. cant let this one go without calling BS though... ill use Dave P as the example. his method of getting people into shape cannot be denied. i cant think of a "guru" that has got more people their pro cards. that being said, he sells items that align to his approach to dieting. a good move if you ask me. in fact your sales merchandise SHOULD correlate to your advice, and shouldnt deveiate a step from it, if what your selling you absolutley believe in...

you can get a mod to move it

I should have

you answered your own questions, and now it is up to you to see if the product is good enough to buy.

GENESIS
08-25-2009, 07:16 PM
I actually sell Kitchen cabinets.....Do you need your Kitchen done??whats your gamertag?

juggernaut
08-25-2009, 07:23 PM
:screwy:
I actually sell Kitchen cabinets.....Do you need your Kitchen done??

CallofDuty4
08-25-2009, 07:29 PM
:screwy:


nice rack:drool::drool::drool:

juggernaut
08-25-2009, 07:29 PM
this is good

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery.html

CallofDuty4
08-25-2009, 08:47 PM
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/wp-content/themes/revolution-30/images/store/rapid3d.jpg

Here ya go

juggernaut
08-25-2009, 11:12 PM
and its one of the better books out there...so?

lomox
08-26-2009, 09:51 AM
you answered your own questions, and now it is up to you to see if the product is good enough to buy.

That's a good point too. My mom is a great example of someone that completely buys into the product she is selling - and she is one amazing salesperson. But when she worked for Lancome (makeup) that was the ultimate brand, and when she went to Chanell, that became the ultimate brand. But you can't say she's objective.

I also think selling your expertise is perfectly ok, provided that you remain ethical. I think where the line gets blurry is when your advice directly correlates to a product you are selling. It happens in physician's officces all the time. Drug companies come and pitch the benefits of thier latest drugs to influence the doctor to reccomend them (you'll see all the proaganda lying around the office). That's an ethical line. I guess it falls to ones personal judgement of who to believe. I recall Scivation was doing a study on BCAA supplementation and its effect on muscle recovery. This was after Xtend became the staple of thier product line and the test was done with the specific product. I dont even know what the result was, but I have a good guess. What if the study produced results counter to thier expectations? Would they do the ethical thing and publish them - bad business - or the fiscally inteligent thing and spin/bury it?

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 11:26 AM
I also think selling your expertise is perfectly ok, provided that you remain ethical. thats my point. If you go to an accountant, you expect to save money and have him find the loopholes.
People pay me to train them to get in better shape. They come away with an education on how to train more effectively, but will be repeat customers because they get a better workout with me. It's my honesty and integrity that people enjoy. Making a few bucks is a notable kickback.

GENESIS
08-26-2009, 12:04 PM
That's a good point too. My mom is a great example of someone that completely buys into the product she is selling - and she is one amazing salesperson. But when she worked for Lancome (makeup) that was the ultimate brand, and when she went to Chanell, that became the ultimate brand. But you can't say she's objective.

I also think selling your expertise is perfectly ok, provided that you remain ethical. I think where the line gets blurry is when your advice directly correlates to a product you are selling. It happens in physician's officces all the time. Drug companies come and pitch the benefits of thier latest drugs to influence the doctor to reccomend them (you'll see all the proaganda lying around the office). That's an ethical line i think the bigger ethical line is when the docs by stocks in the pescription. I guess it falls to ones personal judgement of who to believe. I recall Scivation was doing a study on BCAA supplementation and its effect on muscle recovery. This was after Xtend became the staple of thier product line and the test was done with the specific product. I dont even know what the result was, but I have a good guess. What if the study produced results counter to thier expectations? Would they do the ethical thing and publish them - bad business - or the fiscally inteligent thing and spin/bury it?
...

CallofDuty4
08-26-2009, 09:09 PM
*****bump*****