Low Testosterone

[waugie14]

Whatsup natties! I just had my test level checked because of how i'm feelin a few weeks ago and it came back at 267(241-827). I definitely been feeling it as well, pretty much every symptom besides the libido. Which has me thinking. I had my gallbladder out in February so I really haven't added fat to my diet, just whatever I get out of food. Could it really be the loss of essential fats makin me feel like this? Any suggestions?

[Ryan Wacht]

I would add some saturated fats to your diet, such as that found red meat, butter, and even whole milk while keeping your carb intake moderately low. Saturated fats are an absolute must for natural bodybuilders as the cholesterol from them form the building blocks for testosterone production. This has worked real well for me in the past when I was rebounding off a cycle..

[NATURAL-1987]

I think that the Big Question here is what were your levels before you had your gallbladder out? The next question is how old are you? from that I think we would be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together better.

[waugie14]

I think that the Big Question here is what were your levels before you had your gallbladder out? The next question is how old are you? from that I think we would be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together better.

I have know idea what they where, never had a reason to get it tested until I got all the symptoms. I'm also thinking I never had a low fat diet until after the surgery. The diet seemed to work but I think my body has adjusted, working without a gallbladder. Gonna introduce a good amount of fat in, Dave P said I should be fine, so we'll see how it goes. If I feel good for a 3 to 4 weeks i'll get tested again. Just turned 24 by the way.

[NATURAL-1987]

Yeah, i'd try going back to the old eating habits and after 1 month get checked again. if your doc is cool with letting you get it tested, have it checked every 4 weeks until levels are in the normal range. Make sure you explain to him how important natural test levels are as natural bodybuilder and he should be fine with once/month.

[Arnoldnumerouno]

So since you are in the normal range, is your Dr. NOT going to prescribe anything?

[waugie14]

Yeah, i'd try going back to the old eating habits and after 1 month get checked again. if your doc is cool with letting you get it tested, have it checked every 4 weeks until levels are in the normal range. Make sure you explain to him how important natural test levels are as natural bodybuilder and he should be fine with once/month.

yeh he'll definitely let me get tested whenever i want. He kept saying 267 wasn't that bad lol....but im gonna balance out my diet again for sure. Thanks for the help bro!

[waugie14]

So since you are in the normal range, is your Dr. NOT going to prescribe anything?

He actually prescribed Androgel if I wanted it. All other hormones are in good shape, even free test. Which he didnt pay attention to, so that why Im thinkin its time to introduce some efa's back in.

[cobra]

Waugie, I'm 22 and had blood work done and my test levels were 239! I was feelin like SHIT, no energy or libido. Doc percribed clomid and androgel and also advised me to take 50mg of zinc a day and dude, I feel so much better it's crazy. Anyway, yeah keep gettin checked out.

[AVBG]

The lack of fat would be hindering the production of your own testosterone... Are you supplementing the omegas? ZMA would also help.

[waugie14]

Just a report, added back in natty PB, little red meat till I get some mac oil, and some whole eggs......definitely feel like day and night from a few days ago. I guess the low fat was ok for a lil, but seems my body is getting used to the no gallbladder, Dave said as long as I keep it spread out no more than 15g a meal i'll be good.

I always use fish oil, but before it was whatever fat i was gettin just from food, probably no more than 30g a day! Now its 50-60g:)

[waugie14]

The lack of fat would be hindering the production of your own testosterone... Are you supplementing the omegas? ZMA would also help.

Yes, always! We always read to have efa's to possibly increase test, but as i've found out without em, ur hormones are goin down the toilet and it'll drag the rest of your body with you. Body is a crazy thing.

[waugie14]

Waugie, I'm 22 and had blood work done and my test levels were 239! I was feelin like SHIT, no energy or libido. Doc percribed clomid and androgel and also advised me to take 50mg of zinc a day and dude, I feel so much better it's crazy. Anyway, yeah keep gettin checked out.

I was really close to gettin my script bro lol glad i rethought things lol

[fitcorps]

YOu got pretty much the advice I would recommend. Increase Sat fat a little (cholesterol as well...like from red meat or egg yolks) and increase the EFA's. Try to vary your EFA's:
-Take in Almonds/Walnuts
-Olive Oil or ENOVA Oil
-Fish Oils
Personally, I like to use a MIXED oil like VPXs old ThinFat. They discontinued it though...:-(

Also, are you into trying anything like a natural test booster such as ALRi's Restore or Novedex XT?

[waugie14]

YOu got pretty much the advice I would recommend. Increase Sat fat a little (cholesterol as well...like from red meat or egg yolks) and increase the EFA's. Try to vary your EFA's:
-Take in Almonds/Walnuts
-Olive Oil or ENOVA Oil
-Fish Oils
Personally, I like to use a MIXED oil like VPXs old ThinFat. They discontinued it though...:-(

Also, are you into trying anything like a natural test booster such as ALRi's Restore or Novedex XT?

I;ve pretty much done what you said with the different EFA's....and yes I've been using Diesel Test Hardcore, so far, it's only been a matter of days and I feel so much better. Was just scared of gettin in more fats sonce post surgery....

Thanks!

[NATURAL-1987]

Good to hear your feeling better. Just make sure you follow through with getting levels tested.

[waugie14]

Good to hear your feeling better. Just make sure you follow through with getting levels tested.

Thanks bro! I'm definitely getting bloodwork in 3-4 weeks

[juggernaut]

I'd suggest test enth...I'm a wiseass.
But I digress....I'd say try the new trib product Prime by USP Labs. It actually worked for me and I never had a trib product actually work for me. this is quite possibly the only one.

[waugie14]

Since the last time I've added in good fats, got my macros perfect right now and I've used Diesel Test Hardcore which i really think did nothing, had a placebo effect in the beginning.

Last Test reading was 268 and now it is 375. Not much but some progress. Diet I believe did the work for sure, right where i wanna be. Still not sure what my next move is. Like I said i've had a script from the doc for androgel. Any ideas guys? I;ve been making great gains since getting my diet tight but there is still some signs left from the low test. Not sure if i should try some different boosters and give it some more time or use the script. Im definitely not interested getting my levels above normal just want them to be where they should for a 24 year old.

[juggernaut]

Are you looking for a test cycle recommendation or natural means?
USP Prime-the newer one had a good effect on me when I was natty. I've never responded to trib products but this one worked at the time.

[waugie14]

Are you looking for a test cycle recommendation or natural means?
USP Prime-the newer one had a good effect on me when I was natty. I've never responded to trib products but this one worked at the time.

Yeh I pretty much wanna know if theres anymore options naturally, diets already on point so no change in that. I just dont know if my level will increase anymore than it has.

[waugie14]

Just wanted to add, in my case, a test booster can work just a matter of which one. There not meant to take you above normal test level. People argue this all the time because they take them looking for that drug like effect, nothing happens, so its a worthless supp.

I think Diesel Test Hardcore has everything under the sun in it, instead of focusing on ingredients that will contribute.

[juggernaut]

Mind posting your diet and training routine?

[waugie14]

Mind posting your diet and training routine?

Foods change often, i have gluten/wheat/lactose intolerances...but current macros are 3170cals..98.4fat...351.1carbs....253.6protein

Everything on fitday is put in custom by me....

Mon- Upper/middle Chest/Tris/Front delt upper pec tie in movements
Tues- Back/Bis/Rear Delts
Wed-Off
Thurs- Mid/Lower chest/side delts
Fri-Legs

Right now chest is main priority along with overall thickness, so mainly im focusing on moving as much weight strictly. Heavy squats and deadlifts are done when I can(been a roofer with my dad since 12, legs and back always grow).

[NATURAL-1987]

My honest opinion is try every supplement you can first. Never know what might have a good effect on you. I'd save the script for a last resort and only if you feel you cant get by without it. I mean, what are your contest goals? is it worth trying something like this?

[juggernaut]

My honest opinion is try every supplement you can first. Never know what might have a good effect on you. I'd save the script for a last resort and only if you feel you cant get by without it. I mean, what are your contest goals? is it worth trying something like this?
I'm the complete opposite use the stuff that has been proven to work and has a history behind it.

[juggernaut]

whens the last time you had a layoff?
How does your zinc come in?
take in saturated fats?

Your routine isnt complete-I'd like to know which exercises are done.

Macros seem pretty good.

Foods change often, i have gluten/wheat/lactose intolerances...but current macros are 3170cals..98.4fat...351.1carbs....253.6protein

Everything on fitday is put in custom by me....

Mon- Upper/middle Chest/Tris/Front delt upper pec tie in movements
Tues- Back/Bis/Rear Delts
Wed-Off
Thurs- Mid/Lower chest/side delts
Fri-Legs

Right now chest is main priority along with overall thickness, so mainly im focusing on moving as much weight strictly. Heavy squats and deadlifts are done when I can(been a roofer with my dad since 12, legs and back always grow).

[waugie14]

My honest opinion is try every supplement you can first. Never know what might have a good effect on you. I'd save the script for a last resort and only if you feel you cant get by without it. I mean, what are your contest goals? is it worth trying something like this?

Yeh thats what im thinkin man. My contest goals are to turn pro through IFPA or NGA one day and in no hurry...I consult with Layne Norton and have spoken to him about this before. The rules for the OCB are if you have a doctors note, recent blood work showing your test isnt above normal, you can compete natty but i still feel wrong about that. So I think if its gone up 100 some points, even though it doesnt seem alot, it can keep going up. Because I feel totally different than before.

[waugie14]

whens the last time you had a layoff?
How does your zinc come in?
take in saturated fats?

Your routine isnt complete-I'd like to know which exercises are done.

Macros seem pretty good.

Last break was unplanned in the beginning of november, it was 7 days off.
Zinc, i've been looking into, really want to try it with the next booster i buy.
Of course sat fats are included.
Exercises dumbells chest, front back squats, rack deads, all rows..i know about all the testosterone release exercises if thats what your getting at

[Mattcc22]

Just curious, do you know what your total estrogen or E2 is at?

[waugie14]

Just curious, do you know what your total estrogen or E2 is at?

I'd have to ask for my results, can you explain why. Wanna learn everything lol

[Mattcc22]

You may have a high conversion of test to estrogen. I'm only 26 and had some blood work done to find out that I had low test and high estrogen. I added a lot more fat to my diet and did a month of Diesel Test plus topical formestane and my levels are much better and I'm feeling much better now. If that didn't work, my next option was to try either Clomid or Nolva, but didn't have to luckily.

First blood work (8/6/09) - Total E = 167, Total T = 222

Second blood work (10/6/09) - No total E, but Estrone=16 and Estradiol=27, Total T = 678

[waugie14]

You may have a high conversion of test to estrogen. I'm only 26 and had some blood work done to find out that I had low test and high estrogen. I added a lot more fat to my diet and did a month of Diesel Test plus topical formestane and my levels are much better and I'm feeling much better now. If that didn't work, my next option was to try either Clomid or Nolva, but didn't have to luckily.

First blood work (8/6/09) - Total E = 167, Total T = 222

Second blood work (10/6/09) - No total E, but Estrone=16 and Estradiol=27, Total T = 678

WOW thats awesome man. Im gonna have to call and get a fax of mine. I know the symptoms of high estrogen and im pretty sure its what i had. It's funny but its almost like feelin like a chick lol.

How much did you increase your fats? I've tried DTH twice not sure it did much. I heard DTH with Pro Cycle is the way to go, but not sure what to try next. Thats a huge jump in the test though, even with my small incline, my body did change so im anxious to see what my potential is with normal test levels.

[Mattcc22]

Before i had my levels checked th efirst time I was on a high lean protein diet and taking about 6 grams of fish oil a day. I added 2 raw eggs to my morning shake, some peanut butter and more fatty meats back in. And i snack on almonds during the day. Try to limit my carbs. Not sure if I would try the pro-cycle. It has DHEA and progesterone i believe, which I wouldn't take unless you are sure you need them. I think the formestane is what really did it. I think it got my estrogen under control and allowed my HPTA to bounce back (just my theory). I'm not sure why it was so out of whack in the first place.

[juggernaut]

Just curious, do you know what your total estrogen or E2 is at?good call.

[juggernaut]

How much did you increase your fats? I've tried DTH twice not sure it did much. I heard DTH with Pro Cycle is the way to go, but not sure what to try next. Thats a huge jump in the test though, even with my small incline, my body did change so im anxious to see what my potential is with normal test levels.I've raised mine to about 160g at 220 lbs. So, it can be up there, and possibly higher when competing.

[waugie14]

I've raised mine to about 160g at 220 lbs. So, it can be up there, and possibly higher when competing.

Yeh i plan on doin a 8 week cut after christmas, i'probably raise it to 120.

[waugie14]

Before i had my levels checked th efirst time I was on a high lean protein diet and taking about 6 grams of fish oil a day. I added 2 raw eggs to my morning shake, some peanut butter and more fatty meats back in. And i snack on almonds during the day. Try to limit my carbs. Not sure if I would try the pro-cycle. It has DHEA and progesterone i believe, which I wouldn't take unless you are sure you need them. I think the formestane is what really did it. I think it got my estrogen under control and allowed my HPTA to bounce back (just my theory). I'm not sure why it was so out of whack in the first place.

unfortunally the formestane is banned in the ocb...but least i know theres some hope that its going back up

[juggernaut]

OCB. Good organization. The problem with the OCB is that it really doesnt allow much of anything; the trib product I used did help me, but that doesnt mean it will work for you. You can possibly be overtraining and that will lower test levels. Or you may be producing too much estro, and that leaves Novadex XT out because it isnt allowed.

Check your inbox for something totally unrelated.

[waugie14]

OCB. Good organization. The problem with the OCB is that it really doesnt allow much of anything; the trib product I used did help me, but that doesnt mean it will work for you. You can possibly be overtraining and that will lower test levels. Or you may be producing too much estro, and that leaves Novadex XT out because it isnt allowed.

Check your inbox for something totally unrelated.

Yeh they do restrict a ton! What did you end up using? Here's my timeline of events that led to my low test.

-April 08 to Sept 08 contest prep with a non-functioning gallbladder, wasn't aware of this.
-Feb 09 gallbladder removed
-Feb 09 to Sept 09- very low fat, didn't include any fat sources, scared to include them...all the while training and doing construction, feel like death.
-Sep 09 blood work- 268Test
-Oct to Dec 09 included great amount of fats- Test 375 as of now...feel whole lot better, great strength increase the last 5 weeks.

[juggernaut]

this is a loooooong shot, but do you think the lowered test levels are indicative of your situation with the gall bladder issue?

[waugie14]

this is a loooooong shot, but do you think the lowered test levels are indicative of your situation with the gall bladder issue?

Yes because i was on such a low fat diet my hormones crashed, i never felt that way in my life. But we will see in another few months when i ge them tested again.

[Mattcc22]

Don't know anything about OCB, but if your estrogen is high, would your doctor be able to prescribe a SERM or an AI?

[juggernaut]

Don't know anything about OCB, but if your estrogen is high, would your doctor be able to prescribe a SERM or an AI?
lol OCB is a natty bodybuilder/fitness organization.