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View Full Version : chocolate milk vs. surge



juggernaut
08-26-2009, 11:22 AM
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery.html

Good stuff.

Frosty
08-26-2009, 12:17 PM
This is a fascinating article but the problem with a lot of this PWO stuff is that it leaves more questions than answers :(

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Most of the decent recent revolves around protein, carbs and creatine. If you sort out most of the bullshit that is out there, you'll see its all the same. I have yet to find any reason why my 18.00 creatine mono isnt as good as the gaspari shit. Why spend money needlessly. Chocolate milk is awesome regardless!

Frosty
08-26-2009, 01:32 PM
How about vanilla whey protein mixed with reduced fat milk and some Rice Krispies??? :D

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 01:57 PM
why rice krispies? Why not low gylemic carbs?

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 01:57 PM
and if you were to halve the whey with milk, you'd have a knockout of a drink

Frosty
08-26-2009, 02:37 PM
For someone gaining weight I can't say I'd be upset with someone for having chocolate milk or mixing some whey in there, or having whey and milk with breakfast cereal.

However we do have to admit that the studies are often very lacking as pointed out in the discussion of that article compared to what we as bodybuilders do. i.e. eat a normal meal, train 1.5-2 hours later, take some sort of PWO nutrition, then eat a solid meal again in an hour or so. Without real data on this in trained people eating a bodybuilder diet, it's really difficult to come to any definite conclusions or determine if these supplements really are going to be worth the extra money in the long run compared to some easy to digest food. However I'd be careful on eating a solid meal like say meat and carbs because I'm not aware of any data relating to solid foods PWO and their effectiveness.

Minnphat
08-26-2009, 02:44 PM
For what its worth.. I ate cereal and milk pwo sometimes with a bagel after training hard and stayed pretty lean and made good gains not sure... then I switched to Waxy Maiyze and I gained fat.... maybe it was just my body but who knows... cereal and bagels work just fine

Minnphat
08-26-2009, 02:44 PM
this was off season...BTW

Frosty
08-26-2009, 03:12 PM
This is a bit interesting if you use an analogy.

Look at all the advanced training methods out there. Undulating periodization, accommodating resistance, special lifts and so many other advanced methods. Do these work? Yes, for very high level lifters. But if you look at your average gym rat or bodybuilder it's unnecessary.

Could the same possibly be said for this? Perhaps all the advanced PWO nutrition can have a benefit, but perhaps for very high level guys, and for your average BBers or gym rats it really isn't needed.

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 03:45 PM
I disagree. Here's why;Post workout nutrition is important, if not more important, for natty lifters/bbers. They aren't assisted. They need any boost hey can to support the physical demands placed on them.Secondly, humans are genetically coded in generally the same way. There are those who superior genetics, but we all have the same working patterns in our systems. Some respond better to certain degrees of work, while others simply overtrain.When you say specialized lifts or different routines, that doesn't matter; we all respond but in varying fashion. Capece?

juggernaut
08-26-2009, 04:02 PM
Also. 99.9% are identical.

Frosty
08-27-2009, 02:00 AM
I disagree. Here's why;Post workout nutrition is important, if not more important, for natty lifters/bbers. They aren't assisted.

An elite natural, sure. But for most guys lifting I disagree and a simple approach like that probably would result in about the same for less money. It doesn't need to be super complicated when you're average.

juggernaut
08-27-2009, 11:19 AM
I still disagree with this statement, but show me some proof with some research backing it up, and I will see it differently.

Frosty
08-27-2009, 11:28 PM
I'd bet money that data doesn't exist.

juggernaut
08-28-2009, 12:48 PM
lol

juggernaut
08-28-2009, 02:57 PM
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/1/161

Conclusions: Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.

Another reason NOT to fall for the bullshit of supp companies.

Frosty
08-29-2009, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the link, Juggernaut.

Some questions I have, though:

1. They ate a low protein diet from our POV....1.5g/KG...what happens if they eat way more than this? Would the results be the same? Or would greater protein be needed for the same result?

2. How is this affected by eating? Not many of us train fasted. What sort of changes are seen when you eat meals prior to lifting?

3. How is this affected by training volume? Does it change anything or does greater volume allow for higher protein intake to raise protein synthesis more?

juggernaut
08-30-2009, 02:48 PM
Good questions Frosty. Truthfully?
1. I dont think anything else would happen, if extra protein was taken in, since it can (even though it is tougher) convert to glucose which in turn can result in extra fat storage (IMO).
2. I would imagine the answer to this question is pretty easy; you'd have extra energy.
3. I would say or postulate that it depends on the type of training that is taking place-depletion, power, hypertrophy or endurance all have different outcomes, so that might yield a different result.

These are simply educated guesses, and unless I'm given new data, I'd stick by this.