Stubborn Biceps and Growth

[Sistersteel]

I know these are the men's forums but I needed some input from the guys on this, with no offense to the ladies of course. I am having immense trouble with my biceps. I have a 17" arm cold but compared to the rest of me, that is quite pathetic. I also have very bad trouble with my arms and have dealt with pain in the forearms and the wrists for several years. The pain gets unbearable and I have to lay off the arm training for a while and so I have never been able to hit them hard enough, or long enough to see results.

I would like to take a look at some of the exercises that have benefitted some of you with similar issues. I am looking to improve on what I am currently doing and thought I would ask.

[indianamonster1986]

FST-7 training is awesome!

[Sistersteel]

FST-7 training is awesome!

ok you need to educate me a little here. What is FST-7.

[indianamonster1986]

FST stands for Fascia Stretch Training, and the seven refers to the seven sets performed for the final exercise of a target bodypart

[indianamonster1986]

Alternate dumbbell curls 3-4 x 8-12

Machine preacher curl 3 x 8-12
EZ-bar curl 7 x 8-12 (rest 30-45 seconds between sets)

[indianamonster1986]

stretch in between sets and make sure you're really hydrated.

[Sistersteel]

FST stands for Fascia Stretch Training, and the seven refers to the seven sets performed for the final exercise of a target bodypart


Very interesting. Thank you indianamondater. Can you give me an example of how you would apply this training method to your bicep workout? Exercises, number of sets, reps, tempo etc..

[Sistersteel]

OOps I posted too quickly thank you for elaborating on that! Very interesting. So you've seen good results yourself using this method?

[indianamonster1986]

i did its in the orange print.

[indianamonster1986]

Been doing it for two weeks now. So far its seems to be working great. It is Hany Rambod

[Sistersteel]

i did its in the orange print.


Yup! got it. Sorry I had responded too quickly.

[Sistersteel]

Uni-lateral and bi-lateral movements are great for stubborn biceps. Do some multi-drop sets at the end of the movement and you're good to go.


Thank you Big Mike!

[bigtimektz]

17" cold? Your arms are bigger than mine. I cannot help. Sorry. JK.
When working my biceps I always make sure to keep my wrist in line with my forearm. Do not bend or flex your wrist/hand towards your body, doing so will take the tension off your biceps.

[Sistersteel]

17" cold? Your arms are bigger than mine. I cannot help. Sorry. JK.
When working my biceps I always make sure to keep my wrist in line with my forearm. Do not bend or flex your wrist/hand towards your body, doing so will take the tension off your biceps.


So your arms are puny like mine then? lol
I was trying to devise a method to not use my hands at all when I train biceps. I was using an ankle cuff around my wrist and attaching it to the cable crossover. The pain is so bad its hard to even hold a weight let alone work the bicep. What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts on reverse curls? I think they are useless. But they seem to be the only thing I can do with minimal pain.

[buster12]

Fst-7 has done wonders for my biceps. The training sounds simple, but it works. try 21's. I loke those. And most of all, get freaky with it. Change up your position, your grips, try new things.... hope this helps.

[Frosty]

What are your thoughts on reverse curls? I think they are useless. But they seem to be the only thing I can do with minimal pain.

Reverse curls are important for overall arm size. The brachialis contributes to upper arm girth, and the brachioradialis also is important for forearm size and overall appearance of the arms.

[Frosty]

I'd also experiment with rep ranges. If you max out on a curl with good form, rest 10 minutes, then take 80% and do as many reps as you can, you can get an idea of what you should be doing. If you can only bust out 4 reps for example, doing sets of 10-12 isn't doing much good for growth for those muscles.

[bigtimektz]

Reverse curls are important for overall arm size. The brachialis contributes to upper arm girth, and the brachioradialis also is important for forearm size and overall appearance of the arms.

Well said.

[Sistersteel]

Fst-7 has done wonders for my biceps. The training sounds simple, but it works. try 21's. I loke those. And most of all, get freaky with it. Change up your position, your grips, try new things.... hope this helps.


I am going to give FST-7 a shot. I could use all the help I can get right now because I was starting to get discouraged. Thanks Buster :)

[Sistersteel]

I'd also experiment with rep ranges. If you max out on a curl with good form, rest 10 minutes, then take 80% and do as many reps as you can, you can get an idea of what you should be doing. If you can only bust out 4 reps for example, doing sets of 10-12 isn't doing much good for growth for those muscles.


Frosty that was very informative. Thank you for taking the time to respond and offer advice. I honestly have very strong biceps. You make a valid point with the rep range though. I was keeping my rep range between 6-8 on my arm workout. Someone once told me that I might want to try just higher reps and see if that works along with spot injects.

[buster12]

I am going to give FST-7 a shot. I could use all the help I can get right now because I was starting to get discouraged. Thanks Buster :)
any time. If you have any questions on fst-7, I have answered some common ones on the fst-7 thread...

[Sistersteel]

any time. If you have any questions on fst-7, I have answered some common ones on the fst-7 thread...

I think I'll go check it out now :)

[Frosty]

Frosty that was very informative. Thank you for taking the time to respond and offer advice. I honestly have very strong biceps. You make a valid point with the rep range though. I was keeping my rep range between 6-8 on my arm workout. Someone once told me that I might want to try just higher reps and see if that works along with spot injects.


Give the test a shot. If you get 10-15 reps with 80% of your max, then going to that rep range should really boost your gains!

[iusealittle]

Alternate dumbbell curls 3-4 x 8-12


Machine preacher curl 3 x 8-12

EZ-bar curl 7 x 8-12 (rest 30-45 seconds between sets)


should all the sets be to total failure or close to ?

use.

[buster12]

If you mean the 7's, the best way to tell is this. It should be hard to acheive your 8th 9th, and 10th rep in sets 5-7. Pump doesn't necisarily mean light weight.

[joe-yamma]

i like fst-7 sometimes too.

i would also recommend "drag curls"...
Google it and you should get a bunch of hits.
great exercise that feels really different and really burns the bi's

here's a good explanation of them:
http://www.davedraper.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PmWiki/GirondaBodyDragCurls

[chasebny]

Reverse curls will also help with the elbow and wrist pain most likely.

[ironman0370]

Agree with the drag curls. When I hit sticking points, I actually go ultra isolation. Meaning, I perform exercises with a technique that completely isolates the muscle and takes as many secondary muscles out. Drag curls are a great example.

Really isolating the bicep (elbows way back on an incline bench, for example), really focusing on merely contracting the muscle is the key. Remember, moving the WEIGHT should only be a RESULT of contracting the muscle........never the goal. If you can't fully contract the muscle with a given weight for a given number of reps, lighten it up. Preacher curls performed a particular way are great. Barbell curls in a bent-over, 90 degree position done very strictly are great as well.

Also agree with the brachialis being a big arm booster too. Bis are a relatively small muscle to begin with. Let's not over-emphasize how big they need to be to have BIG ARMS.

Finally, when really stuck in a rut, I like to "run the rack". Take a 20lb dumbbell (or wherever you want to start) and do 4 very strict reps (elbows back, contracting hard at the top for a 3 count, lower relatively slowly as compared to ascension). Then, move up to the next weight in line (unless the dumbbells are out of order, LOL) and repeat. Do this until you cannot get 4 strict reps. Then move back down the rack. Do this for 3-4 sets.

Your arms will thank you for it.

But, I agree with fascial stretching as well. Combine it with this technique when the blood has engorged the muscle, and you'll really benefit.

Regarding the number of sets...........do not OVER-PUMP. Pump is good (not necessarily an indicator of muscle building - agreed......but in general = good), but too much pump will cause you to LOSE pump. Your capillaries will constrict and you'll lose it. You have to master your own pump.

My .02

good luck!

[ironman0370]

.......forgot to mention............mine are only 18.5 inches cold, so to paraphrase others here, maybe I'm not the one to listen to either, LOL!

Good luck anyway and let us know what works for you......THAT is what really matters.

[BIGLOUIE]

as joe-yamma said....try drag curls they have worked well for my lagging biceps
i would also recomend incline curls. they are not a very common exercise but they give a great stretch and since i have started using them my arms have grown. just lie down on an inlcline bench and let your arms hang and keep holding them back and make sure you only curl from the elbow not the shoulder.
someone else metioned reverse curls which is also a great exercise for the brachials which are needed for upper arm development
i would also recomend heavy stretching AFTER the work out...streching during a work out can reduce strength and lessen the overall load you use.

[Frosty]

I would second the incline curls and the drag curls. I know a guy approached me at the gym asking me what I did for my forearms and also commented on the size of my arms (they're not that big, really...18.5" at the time....not that I measure!). I mentioned how I've put in many hours with reverse curls and rowing, but then I had to ask him what he did for his BICEPS. My arms might have been a lot bigger, but I was impressed with the development of his biceps brachii muscles. He does a lot of the drags and inclines. So we both learned something cool for arms :)

[Sistersteel]

Thanks guys for all your input. That was very helpful. I had never heard of drag curls but am going to check out the link you've provided me. I really like incline curls but they wreak HAVOC on my forearms. I need to minimize the tension I place on them or I will be unable to tie my shoes for a week. I can't even use any straight bars at all.

So at least I've learned that reverse curls serve a purpose. That's about the only semi pain free movement I can do so I will keep doing them.

[Frosty]

The forearm pain....I've heard Dave Palumbo briefly mention that sometimes it can come from weak forearms relative to your upper arm...not sure?

[Sistersteel]

The forearm pain....I've heard Dave Palumbo briefly mention that sometimes it can come from weak forearms relative to your upper arm...not sure?


I doubt its that. Its a bad case of tendinitis in both forearms and both wrists. I've had deep tissue work done, cortisone injections, 5 years worth of physical therapy and acupuncture on both arms. Nothing. Still miserably painful and a big obstacle for me in improving my arm development.

[Sistersteel]

Do you use lifting straps for all curling movements to minimize forearms interaction and pain? If not, you really should as it'll make a huge difference.

I have always used straps for all curling movements Big Mike. I am actually physically incapable of training arms without them. Just in a world of hurt.

[MRT]

Slow down the negative portion of the curls!!

[Sistersteel]

Good to hear. Also it'd be worth noting that on Back day if you do a few pulldown and a few rowing movements then consider adding reverse (chin style) pulldowns and using the same cambered bar (commonly used for tricep movements) do low pulley rows with an underhand grip. The secondary movers, that being the biceps, will get a nice load of work. :)

That is great! I actually started doing wide grip pulldowns and Front lat pulldowns today. So I will throw in some low pulley rows and see how that goes for a while. Thank you for helping me out :)

[Sistersteel]

Slow down the negative portion of the curls!!

I will give that a try too! Think that will help a problem that I've had for years though?

[buckimscl]

Sis, not sure if you can do incline curls without a lot of discomfort but there is more muscle fiber recruitment with that exercise than any other according to a study done @ Wright State University in Dayton, OH. I do them with my FST-7 training and there is no feeling like them.

[ironman0370]

Sis -

The only other thing I can think of for your forearm problems is to try those "FLEXSOLATE" straps. I picked up a pair at the Arnold a couple years ago. They're great for isolating the back by completely taking "grip" out of it, eliminating biceps and forearm work while doing so.

But, a DVD comes with it as well and shows how to use them for bicep work as well (with dumbbells). You can use them in such a way that, believe it or not, takes "grip" out of it. It's a little cumbersome at first, but definitely works if you want it to.

Granted, most people WANT extra/secondary bicep work when doing back, and WANT forearm work when they do bis and back, etc.

But in your case, they just might be very very useful. Look into them.

[tiramisu]

I've never been able to grow disproportionate arms even when I did curls. I gave them up for lent. The only consistent means of growing my arms has been to gain overall strength and weight.

[Sistersteel]

Sis, not sure if you can do incline curls without a lot of discomfort but there is more muscle fiber recruitment with that exercise than any other according to a study done @ Wright State University in Dayton, OH. I do them with my FST-7 training and there is no feeling like them.


bucki
incline curls is the one exercise that hurts me the worst, bar curls second.
I love that exercise. Wish I could do them though.

A doctor said that there must be some pressure being applied to a nerve and they needed to go in there and cut whatever tissue is applying pressure to the nerves.

Fuck that. Slice a tendon while they're at it then I am done for good.

[Sistersteel]

I've never been able to grow disproportionate arms even when I did curls. I gave them up for lent. The only consistent means of growing my arms has been to gain overall strength and weight.


I certainly don't want to be fat just to have big arms. I have 31" quads. I can live with no arms. lol

Who am I kidding :( I would love to have big beefy arms :(

[Sistersteel]

Ironman
Thanks for the suggestion. I will certainly look into that.

[robert da strongman]

I know these are the men's forums but I needed some input from the guys on this, with no offense to the ladies of course. I am having immense trouble with my biceps. I have a 17" arm cold but compared to the rest of me, that is quite pathetic. I also have very bad trouble with my arms and have dealt with pain in the forearms and the wrists for several years. The pain gets unbearable and I have to lay off the arm training for a while and so I have never been able to hit them hard enough, or long enough to see results.

I would like to take a look at some of the exercises that have benefitted some of you with similar issues. I am looking to improve on what I am currently doing and thought I would ask.

i stopped doing any bicep work and focused on my tris. did that to help my pressing but i added arm size.
when i do bicep work i use heavy weights. also cables...feel more tension in the bi's

i dealt with my forearm and wrist issues by training the forarems and working grip hard.

[SoxFan11]

The one thing I always tell people who want help with biceps is to lower the weight. Then again, I'm always advising guys and, let's face it, we are much more of ego lifters than women. So, not sure how much help that particular bit of advice would be to you.

However, I've found in my own training that lowering the weight, coupled with feeling the contraction has helped quite a bit. In addition, I also make very sure not to over-complete the rep at the top. By that I mean I'm strict about not allowing my arm to get perpendicular to the floor, thus transferring the stress from the bicep to the elbow joint.

Another technique that I throw in periodically is super-setting biceps with triceps, doing the tri exercise first. I do this because I've had issues with my biceps becoming too pumped. I find that super-setting eliminates that problem completely.

[Frosty]

Since I was changing up my routine anyway, I tried some of these exercises. I did a low incline DB curl, not a 45 deg incline. Probably more like 30 deg. I could really feel this in my biceps and I notice the effects today. I really liked this movement. Had to drop the weight down to 40s but it worked well.

I also played with the drag curl and I noticed it works better *for me* with a straight bar. I feel it a lot more right in the biceps this way. I felt a bit weaker...I think with the EZ bar some other muscles may be helping.

[scottt]

Pick one exercise per workout and try to isolate the biceps with a medium weight. Try to fail in the 12 to 15 rep range do the same for triceps.

[I Eat Therefore I Am]

Maybe I missed it but did anyone ask you what you have/are trying currently? The info is good so far but it would be important to know history before making any recomendations!

[the bull eso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8PABWoHioVw damn Phil is lucky

[the bull eso]

wow

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8PABWoHioVw)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8PABWoHioVw
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8PABWoHioVw)