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greuceanu
02-23-2009, 01:49 AM
Do you believe there can be exterior signs on an athlete's body that could give away the fact he's using performance enhancing drugs?

If yes, what are the signs you are looking for?

militantmuscle
02-23-2009, 02:23 AM
Bumps from injections, that would be a pretty convincing indicator for me, especially in contest shape.

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 02:25 AM
Are you talking about GH bumps or steroid /infection induced abcesses?

Asmolenski
02-23-2009, 08:07 PM
Big ugly bloated abs is tell tale for excessive growth hormone.

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Big ugly bloated abs is tell tale for excessive growth hormone.

That could be a decent point. What are the exact reasonings for the GH belly? Intra-abdominal fat, internal organ enlargement, what else?

This thread is a good example of a failed thread, nothing controversial about it yet, lol.

Tatyana
02-23-2009, 10:32 PM
1. Super sized cannon ball rounded delts (loads of androgen receptors here).

2. Natural muscle 'pops' when flexed, enhanced muscle doesn't quite as much

3. Broader nose on some people

Sledge
02-23-2009, 10:36 PM
A giant clit and a bearded lady are a good givaway in women :D

Honour
02-23-2009, 10:49 PM
A giant clit and a bearded lady are a good givaway in women :D

Haha:D

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 10:52 PM
1. Super sized cannon ball rounded delts (loads of androgen receptors here).

2. Natural muscle 'pops' when flexed, enhanced muscle doesn't quite as much



Good points, i noticed that too.I've thought it was because of the extra fluid loads, though. Ballooning muscles, that look pumped even when cold.

Kind of like the difference between the look of a balloon filled with meat(if one can imagine such a thing)and one filled with water to the point of bursting.

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 10:53 PM
A giant clit and a bearded lady are a good givaway in women :D

:).

Tatyana
02-23-2009, 11:08 PM
I also find that unless naturals are quite short, they often have a very stream lined look to the muscle, often built a bit more like sprinters.

There are some naturals with amazing genetics, they still look quite full and chunky when in comp condition, but all of the body parts still flow quite well together, and rarely do you find anything that has that super sweep, bulge or oversized look to it.

Curt James
02-23-2009, 11:09 PM
Do you believe there can be exterior signs on an athlete's body that could give away the fact he's using performance enhancing drugs?

If yes, what are the signs you are looking for?

Um, muscles? :D




Sheesh. No sense of humor. :(

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 11:12 PM
There are some naturals with amazing genetics, they still look quite full and chunky when in comp condition, but all of the body parts still flow quite well together, and rarely do you find anything that has that super sweep, bulge or oversized look to it.

While i've seen naturals with exceptionally gifted body parts, i feel your comment stands in regards to flowing better.

What about skin aspect, eye balls, gyno?

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 11:14 PM
Um, muscles? :D




Sheesh. No sense of humor. :(

Curt,shut your mouth and answer in the Who is thread, you've left me alone:p

And put the needle aside,you beast.

Tatyana
02-23-2009, 11:21 PM
While i've seen naturals with exceptionally gifted body parts, i feel your comment stands in regards to flowing better.

What about skin aspect, eye balls, gyno?

Ok, sort of related to skin.

I have also seen that naturals seem to have more of a dry, ripped look when in comp condition.

I think this may be related to water retention due to steroid use that the diuretics just won't sort.

Natural females also never seem to get their legs as shredded as those using pharma fat burners, although their upper body can be just as ripped.

Gyno is a tough one as the younger natties can have the remenants of adolescent gyno, and a few older chaps may have some odd hormone balance, but in general, gyno = not natural.

What do you mean by eyes?

greuceanu
02-23-2009, 11:49 PM
The reason i started the thread is because i see plenty of comments whether someone is natural or not, i've made such comments myself a couple of times.

Yet, i don't see people exposing the criteria for determining that, i only see: 'GH gut' or 'he's too big to be natural'.

Many moons ago i read an article stating that german officials had designed a visual protocol to determine whether the competitors were using drugs or not.As far as i remember, the program got canned once they realised they'd run out of competitors.

Here's what i remember from the criteria list. Keep in mind that these may not be exact words, i added some observations of my own and everything is out for debate.

Skin aspect:

-high levels of water retention (creatine gives low levels of water retention but nothing like a steroid bloat);

-thicker,leathery texture (do drugs thicken the epidermis correlated with quantity and duration of use?);

-(very)oily aspect not exhibited by natural skin;

-steroid induced acnea( different patterns and look? I understood that steroid acnea presented a dark pins aspect and could leave permanent marks);

-unhealthy aspect to the skin,due to hypertension and somewhat of a continuous pump. I think Branch Warren may present a good example of this.

-gyno(i've read some people saying that natural gyno has a softer different aspect-any truth to this?)

Muscle aspect:

-as mentioned before, muscles 'pop' and appear to be in a pumped state most of the time; natural muscle tends to be much flatter;

-this is something i've not read but noticed myself: if you take 2 people with almost identical bone structure, the one on drugs will always dislocate more volume at same bodyweight, due to increased fluid component in muscle vs dry muscle mass.

Muscle density is lower, thus volume dislocated is larger.I think we've all seen 200 lb'ers that look like they weight 230-240.In some cases, they have a smaller bone structure and give the illusion of being larger but in many cases they do not.

-the ballooning aspect that i've mentioned before: muscles are always very round and the physiques tend to take more uniform characteristic throughout bb ranks;i've seen many saying that todays bb'ers look much more alike than the ones of old, and i think it's dose dependant, muscles look 'swollen' and balloned.

Eye aspect: some drug users exhibit exoftalmia(spelling?), meaning their eyes bulge. Some have yellowish cornea due to liver damage.

On GH use: i believe lipomas have a different aspect vs GH bumps and they don't go away on their own or change locations.

I forgot a few but will type if i remember.

47ronin
02-24-2009, 01:28 PM
Gyno isn't always an indicator of steroid use. My cousin had a bad case of gyno that he had surgery on and I don't think he's lifted a weight in his life.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who is and isn't natural b/c not everyone "abuses" the drugs. Someone using a moderate dose might not show any side effects like acne, fluid retention, gyno, etc.

Koubs
02-24-2009, 03:13 PM
-gyno(i've read some people saying that natural gyno has a softer different aspect-any truth to this?)

.

Interesting that you say this cause I never really heard it before... But this actually describes me well... I am 23 and have had this 'softer gyno' since I was about 16 and it just never went away on its own... After it's been this long, I'm finally getting it removed... Dr. Blau will be performing the surgery next month for me

militantmuscle
02-24-2009, 04:35 PM
Are you talking about GH bumps or steroid /infection induced abcesses?

The kind you get with gear, irritation of the skin. For instance,

If you are shredded to the bone, glute striations popping out everywhere but you have a gumball shaped bump on your glutes, what does that say???

greuceanu
02-25-2009, 12:58 AM
Gyno isn't always an indicator of steroid use. My cousin had a bad case of gyno that he had surgery on and I don't think he's lifted a weight in his life.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who is and isn't natural b/c not everyone "abuses" the drugs. Someone using a moderate dose might not show any side effects like acne, fluid retention, gyno, etc.

True on the gyno.I was curious if anyone could confirm/infirm that pubertal gyno seems to be 'softer'.Looks like Koubs provided one confirmation.

True regarding the other point,except i think most people who use moderated doses (750mg+ a week) will exhibit some of the signs.In most cases, these signs only allow you to detect use of moderate to large quantities or abuse.And it's unfortunate that you can't be 100% sure that someone does not use, but at least you can give the benefit of the doubt,i say. At least you can potentially detect a drug abuser posing as a natural.



Interesting that you say this cause I never really heard it before... But this actually describes me well... I am 23 and have had this 'softer gyno' since I was about 16 and it just never went away on its own... After it's been this long, I'm finally getting it removed... Dr. Blau will be performing the surgery next month for me

Thanks for the point of view.I'm curious if there will be others confirming/infirming the above.


The kind you get with gear, irritation of the skin. For instance,

If you are shredded to the bone, glute striations popping out everywhere but you have a gumball shaped bump on your glutes, what does that say???

Lipoma;)? Kidding,i know what you mean.

47ronin
02-25-2009, 01:39 AM
Although I said someone using a "moderate" dose might not exhibit any side effects I really don't think too many people use moderate dosages.

greuceanu
02-25-2009, 02:15 AM
Although I said someone using a "moderate" dose might not exhibit any side effects I really don't think too many people use moderate dosages.

I agree.

rpninja636
02-26-2009, 12:39 AM
If they're bigger than me then they're on the juice.



that was a joke people.

greuceanu
02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
Looks like people are skittish regarding commenting on this thread.AVBG, is it too late to add a simple poll? Make it anonymous, with the choices:

A.I think you can determine drug abuse visually
B.I don't think you can determine drug abuse visually
C.I am not sure, but i am legally blind and because of that i meant to vote A.

Wiry Pyruvity
02-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Are we talking about contest-ready athletes that have been shorn...or off-season folk? The former would have easier tells.

greuceanu
02-26-2009, 04:41 PM
General. Actually i think it's easier to tell off-season, because there's no fake tan or oil on and water retention is much easier detectable.

greuceanu
02-27-2009, 02:24 AM
Looks like people are skittish regarding commenting on this thread.AVBG, is it too late to add a simple poll? Make it anonymous, with the choices:

A.I think you can determine drug abuse visually
B.I don't think you can determine drug abuse visually
C.I am not sure, but i am legally blind and because of that i meant to vote A.

Please disregard,i posted a poll in the Pit:

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=2214

Northman
02-27-2009, 01:25 PM
Big ugly bloated abs is tell tale for excessive growth hormone.


So i guess when your a kid and gh is pulsing out your ears you have a big bloated midsection as well? Please do some research.

Zetawill
02-27-2009, 03:28 PM
So i guess when your a kid and gh is pulsing out your ears you have a big bloated midsection as well? Please do some research.

Kids aren't producing the amount of gh that most athletes are using, so no kids will not be bloated, yes if the levels are high enough athletes will have a bloated gut.

Northman
02-27-2009, 08:12 PM
Kids aren't producing the amount of gh that most athletes are using, so no kids will not be bloated, yes if the levels are high enough athletes will have a bloated gut.


Please stop trying to sound intelligent....

How much GH does a kid produce in adolesence?

How much GH does one take to see results?

How much GH does the average pro take to produce fat loss?

If you knew any this you would not make such dumb comments.

philborg
02-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Syringes in their gym bags.

greuceanu
02-27-2009, 08:52 PM
Syringes in their gym bags.

See, i never understood that.Why would you need to inject right before workout?

Voland
03-15-2009, 09:11 AM
1. Super sized cannon ball rounded delts (loads of androgen receptors here).

2. Natural muscle 'pops' when flexed, enhanced muscle doesn't quite as much

3. Broader nose on some people

Bingo.

BigPablo300
03-20-2009, 05:39 PM
See, i never understood that.Why would you need to inject right before workout?

You don't. However a lot of guys use Slin right after their workout. It's pretty easy to spot the difference between a insulin syringe (28 gauge) and a vitamin or mutli use oil syringe (25 or 22 gauge usually). And lumps on competitors in stage condition is caused by scar tissue usually. I always tell guys not to use after Thursday before a Saturday show. It's usually enough time to bring down the swelling a little.

thepump
03-20-2009, 09:57 PM
yes , for me I know it changes my outlook and I have to step back to make sure my decision is made from the non-roided upside. The keep myself out of jail side. lol

but for others , acne and swollen guts are just a few I can see RIGHT off the bat and the spots, purple spots. :(