low dose/DNP

[BigBilly]

will running dnp at 100-200 a day make a difference or it is a waste

[jacshelb]

Everyone I've talked to claim it is proportionally dose dependent. Talk to Conciliator (sp?) about this, he's pretty knowledgeable. Romano said he took 150 mg per day for 8 weeks (correct me if I'm wrong) and made awesome strides in fat loss! If I were to do it, I'd keep the dose so low I hardly noticed any sides and just run it till I got the results I needed. But, that's just me.

[Amado Carrillo Fuentes]

this interests me as well, i am dying to get some of that shit unfortunely i am broke

[Frosty]

It's dose-dependent. 100-200mg ED combined with a good diet and training would work very well. No it won't let you eat junk and lose a pound of fat like 600mg ED would, so don't think you can eat junk. Low dose is good for a clean diet and actually exercising. For me 600mg ED makes it very difficult to train let alone do cardio, even 400mg ED makes cardio hard.

[cooljames]

I only have one dnp cycle under my belt...so im not going to act like a have a huge amount of exp. but from all my research, and questions i have asked...longer low dosed cycles will lead to the same results as a shorter high dosed cycle....conciliator recommends them actually...i ramped up...starting with 100mg, and ending with 400mg...i discovered that i can handle 400mg no problem...so obviously every one reacts very differently to dnp...but for most...30 days on 200mg should yield some nice results. CJ

[TheTransformator]

Everyone is different...I would only try it as very last resource...better check your diet and cardio first...there is no magic Pill/Powder...Overdose and you are gone...on a sidenote...the workingrange dosages make you feel like utter shit...

[jacshelb]

Everyone is different...I would only try it as very last resource...better check your diet and cardio first...there is no magic Pill/Powder...Overdose and you are gone...on a sidenote...the workingrange dosages make you feel like utter shit...

No offense man, but it sounds like you are parroting all the stuff that's being said about DNP over the past many years. I think that it being associated with unbearable sides and death etc. is because of people pushing the limit. And, we've already established (on other threads with research data) that the effect is dose proportional- i.e. the "working range" is not this narrow window that everyone thinks. Though it works differently for different people (some sensitive and others resistant) it works as such: 100 mg will increase fat burning by x%, 200mg will increase by double that and so on.

So, people thinking of trying it low dose style are looking more at a tolerable dose over a longer period vs. a huge, nasty, side-effect inducing dose over 12 days.

[Conciliator]

Though it works differently for different people (some sensitive and others resistant) it works as such: 100 mg will increase fat burning by x%, 200mg will increase by double that and so on.According to Cutting and Tainter's original clinical research on DNP, every 100 mg of crystal DNP per day will increase metabolic rate an average of 11%. Keep in mind this is only an average. Individual sensitivity to it will vary greatly. Also, this assumes you're using the sodium salt of DNP. So if you're using powder DNP, the increase in metabolic rate for every 100mg will be higher. Finally, this is after the drug accumulates (so after 3-4 days at that dose).

As an example, if one were to take 300mg/day of crystal DNP, it would increase metabolic rate by 33% (3x11%) in the average person. Here's an image from Cutting and Tainter's research showing the dose response.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5740/dnpg.jpg

[Conciliator]

So, people thinking of trying it low dose style are looking more at a tolerable dose over a longer period vs. a huge, nasty, side-effect inducing dose over 12 days.Exactly. I think longer, low-dose cycles are definitely the way to go.

[jacshelb]

According to Cutting and Tainter's original clinical research on DNP, every 100 mg of crystal DNP per day will increase metabolic rate an average of 11%. Keep in mind this is only an average. Individual sensitivity to it will vary greatly. Also, this assumes you're using the sodium salt of DNP. So if you're using powder DNP, the increase in metabolic rate for every 100mg will be higher. Finally, this is after the drug accumulates (so after 3-4 days at that dose).

As an example, if one were to take 300mg/day of crystal DNP, it would increase metabolic rate by 33% (3x11%) in the average person. Here's an image from Cutting and Tainter's research showing the dose response.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5740/dnpg.jpg


Good stuff man!

What do you think about the claimed "oxidative" properties of DNP? My first thought off the top of my head is that fat burning in any form is going to release free radicals and that sort of thing anyway. Is what people are talking about with this type of side effect simply due to the process of the fat cells releasing thier contents or is it another problem all together- or no problem at all?

[BIGSNOR]

not to hijack but conc. could you please check your Pm's i sent it to you on meso as well. really need your expertise ASAP. thanks man.

Thought i'd add somethin to this post while i was here.

I've always done the blast method. I've done it keto, and i've done it on carbs. I was always curious, i know your body builds a tolerance to the high doses around the two week mark. So why wouldnt your body build a tolerance to the low dose as well? For instance, say you run a heavy dose and lose 20 pounds in say 14-16 days, before the weight loss stalls. Now if you did a low dose, by the time you got to 14-16 days, your weight loss would be much lower than the 20 you had lost on the heavy dose. Does low dosing allow you to keep losing bodyfat for a longer period of time? And once you come off the dnp, is it possible to continue losing weight with strict diet and cardio, or have you pretty much maxed out your fat burning capabilities when your through. Conc. you'll understand better in my PM.

[TheTransformator]

No offense man, but it sounds like you are parroting all the stuff that's being said about DNP over the past many years. I think that it being associated with unbearable sides and death etc. is because of people pushing the limit. And, we've already established (on other threads with research data) that the effect is dose proportional- i.e. the "working range" is not this narrow window that everyone thinks. Though it works differently for different people (some sensitive and others resistant) it works as such: 100 mg will increase fat burning by x%, 200mg will increase by double that and so on.

So, people thinking of trying it low dose style are looking more at a tolerable dose over a longer period vs. a huge, nasty, side-effect inducing dose over 12 days.

No...I'm just talking from personal experience...I have tried every ergogenic aid to see what it does...I got really ill from it...and although it works...I won't risk it again...way too harsh on my system...

[bulldog08]

No offense man, but it sounds like you are parroting all the stuff that's being said about DNP over the past many years. I think that it being associated with unbearable sides and death etc. is because of people pushing the limit. And, we've already established (on other threads with research data) that the effect is dose proportional- i.e. the "working range" is not this narrow window that everyone thinks. Though it works differently for different people (some sensitive and others resistant) it works as such: 100 mg will increase fat burning by x%, 200mg will increase by double that and so on.

So, people thinking of trying it low dose style are looking more at a tolerable dose over a longer period vs. a huge, nasty, side-effect inducing dose over 12 days.

I personally would never touch the stuff because different doses work differently for different people and should you happen to take too much, you are dead. literally. Its that simple. Isnt like heroin where there is somthing they can inject and counter-act the stuff, your organs will shrivel up and you are dead. Fuck than IMO.

[jacshelb]

No...I'm just talking from personal experience...I have tried every ergogenic aid to see what it does...I got really ill from it...and although it works...I won't risk it again...way too harsh on my system...

No disrespect, I'm the same way (a try everything kind of guy). What I was referring to was the dosing. I mean, it's going to be harsh when it's too high for you, regardless of what that dose is. I really think people should start really low and find their tolerance level. There is no way in hell I'd suffer the way many people report suffering with DNP. What would be the point? Then, you hear the low dose/longer run proponents talk about getting results with absolutely minimal sides and I just think, "Why doesn't everyone listen to this?"

Again, no disrespect intended. I know you know your stuff.

[jacshelb]

I personally would never touch the stuff because different doses work differently for different people and should you happen to take too much, you are dead. literally. Its that simple. Isnt like heroin where there is somthing they can inject and counter-act the stuff, your organs will shrivel up and you are dead. Fuck than IMO.

I'm not trying to push people to try it or anything. But, the difference between dead and effective dose is so far removed, people don't even realize. If you have to "feel it" before you think it's working, then it's too much! I mean, if your tolerable dose is 400 mg per day, that's high. But, you are still taking 1/4th or less of what's going to kill you. And, you really should be "feeling it" at 400 mg per day if not much less! I just keep going back in my mind to what John Romano said about taking 150 mg per day for 8 weeks. He claimed it helped his overall fat loss and, that's not a dose that is remotely dangerous for most people!

Again, I don't want anyone to go jump on a dnp cycle, I'm not pushing that! I am pushing the idea that IF you are going to do it, consider doing it safely in a very low, tolerable dose!! Gauge effectiveness by your results, not your side effects! :)

[Texastriceps]

So is it legal or illegal and if so whaat schedule? Also is it expensive say compared to clen and assuming it's always an underground product what would the "industry standard" dose be?

[bulldog08]

So is it legal or illegal and if so whaat schedule? Also is it expensive say compared to clen and assuming it's always an underground product what would the "industry standard" dose be?


I personally would stick to clen bro. Clen is very effective and MUCH MUCH safer. Yes, I have known guys who have taken DNP and dropped 20lbs of pure fat in two weeks, but you can do the same thing with clen just might take a little longer and you dont really have to worry about dieing unless your taking insane amounts. I know there are people on here saying you have to take alot for DNP to hurt you, But I knew a guy who took only 250mgs a day and ended up in the hospital for 5 days because it fucked with him. Try what you want but id stick with clen.

[jacshelb]

Yes, despite all I've said "for" DNP, you have to realize that I'm advocating that IF you are going to use it, and you are already experienced enough etc., then I say go low, low doses. 50 mg per day to start, bump up after a week to 100 and see how that feels. Some people are very very sensitive. One fellow on here says that he can't stand more than 75 mg per day! Well, he'd be messed up for sure if he tried 200-300 mg per day for a week! It's dangerous stuff for sure!

And again, no disrespect to anyone. I fully understand why most say to stay away from this stuff. Not to be taken lightly!

[TheTransformator]

I personally would stick to clen bro. Clen is very effective and MUCH MUCH safer. Yes, I have known guys who have taken DNP and dropped 20lbs of pure fat in two weeks, but you can do the same thing with clen just might take a little longer and you dont really have to worry about dieing unless your taking insane amounts. I know there are people on here saying you have to take alot for DNP to hurt you, But I knew a guy who took only 250mgs a day and ended up in the hospital for 5 days because it fucked with him. Try what you want but id stick with clen.

DNP is more dangerous than clen..but DNP has way better fat burning properties than clen...I simply disagree that the effects are the same...that being said...I would also opt for clen as it is just safer...but I'm not impressed by clen at all...that is from my personal experiences...and I upped the dose...it give me a small edge...but it was not a nice ride either...I used to throw it in...nowadays I don't anymore...

[Texastriceps]

I'm of the same opiinion about clen. If you've been at this awhile u get the sides but not a lot of results. Nows T3 works great for me, but im talkin a final "edge" say from 30 to 15 days out. 5 pounds at that point would be a big deal. Still what is the standard dose? And it's legality something like getting clen or what? I'm sure if you're nailing all your shit 50mgs would be a big deal.

[Texastriceps]

Also the difference bewteen cyrstalized and powdered DNP?

[BigBilly]

Also the difference bewteen cyrstalized and powdered DNP?

Powdered DNP includes 2,4Dinitrophenol raw material.

Crystallized DNP includes 2,4Dinitrophenol + Salt ester. This forms an ionic molecule. According to der Fonz, and factual info. This formation will increase absorption tenfold.

The second thing he hit on was the debate on potency of the stuff. It was said that Crystal DNP was 2-2.5x the potency of normal DNP, however I'd be more inclined to say that it was the ORIGINAL crystals that were 3x. It was downgraded quite a bit after a lot of bad sides were hitting the users. It's more along the lines of 2-3. While normal DNP has a variable half-life of 36 hours, Crystallized DNP's half life is significantly shorter.

You might be thinking "Awesome, so it's actually LESS miserable?" - Wrong. With powdered DNP your DNP levels will gradually rise, as will your intensity in perspiration. However with the Crystallized DNP, you get a sudden spike of DNP levels in the body within 2-5 hours, which is as I said 2-3x as intense.

Equivalency...

100mg Crystallized = 200-250mg Powdered.
200mg Crystallized = 400-600mg Powdered.


If you've ever been able to compare them, it's been said that you do not sweat 1-2 days after your last capsule of Crystalline, simply because of the shorter half-life. You do on normal powder. I have nothing to compare on, save for about two dozen testimonials that are consistant of crystalline DNP users and Powdered DNP users both.

[Conciliator]

Powdered DNP includes 2,4Dinitrophenol raw material.

Crystallized DNP includes 2,4Dinitrophenol + Salt ester. This forms an ionic molecule. According to der Fonz, and factual info. This formation will increase absorption tenfold./[quote]This is not "factual info", it's nonsense. Cyrstal DNP has nowhere near 10x the bioavailability. Powder DNP already has a very high bioavailability itself. It's bioavailable through skin for crying out loud. When you ingest crystal DNP, the sodium is cleaved and you're left with the exact same thing as powder DNP... the DNP base.
[quote=BigBilly;572289]The second thing he hit on was the debate on potency of the stuff. It was said that Crystal DNP was 2-2.5x the potency of normal DNP, however I'd be more inclined to say that it was the ORIGINAL crystals that were 3x. It was downgraded quite a bit after a lot of bad sides were hitting the users. It's more along the lines of 2-3. While normal DNP has a variable half-life of 36 hours, Crystallized DNP's half life is significantly shorter.More nonsense. How was the "original" crystal DNP downgraded to something weaker? This bro-talk makes absolutely no sense. The sodium salt of DNP is what it is, and it's not more potent than powder. Crystal DNP is weaker than powder DNP since it contains less actual DNP. The half life is the same. As Cutting and Tainter said in their original research on DNP, after you account for the dose equivalency "the two forms are therapeutically indistinguishble, as would be expected."

You might be thinking "Awesome, so it's actually LESS miserable?" - Wrong. With powdered DNP your DNP levels will gradually rise, as will your intensity in perspiration. However with the Crystallized DNP, you get a sudden spike of DNP levels in the body within 2-5 hours, which is as I said 2-3x as intense.

Equivalency...

100mg Crystallized = 200-250mg Powdered.
200mg Crystallized = 400-600mg Powdered.

If you've ever been able to compare them, it's been said that you do not sweat 1-2 days after your last capsule of Crystalline, simply because of the shorter half-life. You do on normal powder. I have nothing to compare on, save for about two dozen testimonials that are consistant of crystalline DNP users and Powdered DNP users both.This is more bad bro-logic. Crystal DNP is weaker than powder DNP, which is why the side effects (e.g. heat) are less pronounced... you're getting less actual DNP. If you increase your dose of the crystal DNP to make up for the sodium content, it'll produce the same effect as taking powder DNP. Again, from the clinical research on DNP, "The two forms are therapeutically indistinguishble, as would be expected."