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ob205
10-08-2009, 01:58 PM
I have seen several of these figure competitors doing plyometric movements in their workouts, and I have never seen a study or research that would point to Plyo's helping in hypertrophy or aesthetic conditioning. Is this just entertainment training? From what I understand it is beneficial for the athlete and directly relates to Power production. Just curios since I see no benefit from doing them for a purely aesthetic contest i.e. bb or figure.

Meathead.
10-09-2009, 11:20 AM
I use it a lot w/ clients

I find those power motion where u add weight to it, you get benefits of both aerobic and anaerobic training, plus the power/explosiveness in muscle training

u are not going to see any major hypertrophy from it, but for a fitness competitor or athlete, it is def beneficial, for both athletics in general and injury prevention

it jacks heart rate up, trains the nervous sytem well, and allows ur body to do what it does best, and work as one, and have more powerful muscle contractions which will also allow for more strength, plus the benefits of tendon/lig's

TPT
10-11-2009, 01:34 PM
I have seen several of these figure competitors doing plyometric movements in their workouts, and I have never seen a study or research that would point to Plyo's helping in hypertrophy or aesthetic conditioning. Is this just entertainment training? From what I understand it is beneficial for the athlete and directly relates to Power production. Just curios since I see no benefit from doing them for a purely aesthetic contest i.e. bb or figure.


it is "entertaining" training. those figure competitors are wasting time performing plyometrics.

fitness competitors should perform plyometrics.

ob205
10-11-2009, 06:42 PM
Yes, I agree. I just wanted to see if someone could post a study or finding that showed there was a cosmetic benefit related to Plyometrics. Guess it's equivalent to standing on a swiss ball and doing 5lb dumbbell curls!

juggernaut
10-11-2009, 07:19 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16802248

Not exactly groundbreaking, but interesting all the same.

Ibarramedia
10-11-2009, 10:16 PM
So basically you guys are saying it is only a perfomance oriented workout. It would be good for basketball,football,boxing and even fitness but not for figure and bodybuilding.

TPT
10-11-2009, 11:37 PM
Yes, I agree. I just wanted to see if someone could post a study or finding that showed there was a cosmetic benefit related to Plyometrics. Guess it's equivalent to standing on a swiss ball and doing 5lb dumbbell curls!


the only study i know of with implications of possible "cosmetic" effects of plyometrics came out last year. here it is. ill be back to chat about it if anyone has questions.

the results were interesting to say the least.



Muscle Adaptations to Plyometric vs. Resistance Training in Untrained Young Men (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2008/11000/Muscle_Adaptations_to_Plyometric_vs__Resistance.12 .aspx)
Vissing, Kristian; Brink, Mads; Lønbro, Simon; Sørensen, Henrik; Overgaard, Kristian; Danborg, Kasper; Mortensen, Jesper; Elstrøm, Ole; Rosenhøj, Nikolaj; Ringgaard, Steffen; Andersen, Jesper L; Aagaard, Per
The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 22(6):1799-1810, November 2008.
doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e318185f673





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Abstract:

Vissing, K, Brink, M, Lonbro, S, Sorensen, H, Overgaard, K, Danborg, K, Mortensen, J, Elstrom, O, Rosenhoj, N, Ringgaard, S, Andersen, JL, and Aagaard, P. Muscle adaptations to plyometric vs. resistance training in untrained young men. J Strength Cond Res 22(6): 1799-1810, 2008-The purpose of this study was to compare changes in muscle strength, power, and morphology induced by conventional strength training vs. plyometric training of equal time and effort requirements. Young, untrained men performed 12 weeks of progressive conventional resistance training (CRT, n = 8) or plyometric training (PT, n = 7). Tests before and after training included one-repetition maximum (1 RM) incline leg press, 3 RM knee extension, and 1 RM knee flexion, countermovement jumping (CMJ), and ballistic incline leg press. Also, before and after training, magnetic resonance imaging scanning was performed for the thigh, and a muscle biopsy was sampled from the vastus lateralis muscle. Muscle strength increased by approximately 20-30% (1-3 RM tests) (p < 0.001), with CRT showing 50% greater improvement in hamstring strength than PT (p < 0.01). Plyometric training increased maximum CMJ height (10%) and maximal power (Pmax; 9%) during CMJ (p < 0.01) and Pmax in ballistic leg press (17%) (p < 0.001). This was far greater than for CRT (p < 0.01), which only increased Pmax during the ballistic leg press (4%) (p < 0.05). Quadriceps, hamstring, and adductor whole-muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) increased equally (7-10%) with CRT and PT (p < 0.001). For fiber CSA analysis, some of the biopsies had to be omitted. Type I and IIa fiber CSA increased in CRT (n = 4) by 32 and 49%, respectively (p < 0.05), whereas no significant changes occurred for PT (n = 5). Myosin heavy-chain IIX content decreased from 11 to 6%, with no difference between CRT and PT. In conclusion, gross muscle size increased both by PT and CRT, whereas only CRT seemed to increase muscle fiber CSA. Gains in maximal muscle strength were essentially similar between groups, whereas muscle power increased almost exclusively with PT training.
(C) 2008 National Strength and Conditioning Association

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TPT
10-11-2009, 11:40 PM
So basically you guys are saying it is only a perfomance oriented workout. It would be good for basketball,football,boxing and even fitness but not for figure and bodybuilding.



technically, it may cause some muscle hypertrophy. and more likely for unexperienced or novice weighttrainers.

not too much help for many of us.

ob205
10-12-2009, 10:30 AM
Thanks PT, this is what I was looking for. It just did not make sense to me that these "body" competitors were adding Plyo's. I understand the sports application of it, but for someone solely interested in physique ehancement, it seems pointless.

juggernaut
10-12-2009, 12:23 PM
ob, pointless is too strong a word; for the purpose of argument, you can say that explosive power which can be enhanced by plyos, does in fact indirectly lead to hypertrophy since the strength enhancement can lead to heavier weight which can lead to better gains....basically the chicken and the egg theory.
I use plyos for sm training and it does result in better strength gains.

Did I make sense at all with that? LOL

TPT
10-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Thanks PT, this is what I was looking for. It just did not make sense to me that these "body" competitors were adding Plyo's. I understand the sports application of it, but for someone solely interested in physique ehancement, it seems pointless.


no problem, ob.

in general, its a damn gimmick. it is not even close to anything i would recemmend for morphological changes in physique.

ob205
10-12-2009, 02:14 PM
Jugger,
Yes, I don't think we debate the fact that Plyo's can help POWER and strength gains, and yes it may indirectly attribute to an end result with heavier poundages. But, for a figure competitor where Maximum muscle mass is not a requirement, there is no logical reason to include plyos in their training regimen. And I agree with PT about it being gimmicky. It is laughable when I see "Mrs. Jones", 45 year old overweight housewife, doing one legged depth jumps supersetted with Bosu ball dumbbell curls. This is the most beneficial use of plyos, to take advantage of newbies who are impressed that a trainer is doing something different then they have seen before. I think Tony Little should do Depth Jumps in between sets of the Gazelle for next informercial.

juggernaut
10-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Jugger,
Yes, I don't think we debate the fact that Plyo's can help POWER and strength gains, and yes it may indirectly attribute to an end result with heavier poundages. But, for a figure competitor where Maximum muscle mass is not a requirement, there is no logical reason to include plyos in their training regimen. And I agree with PT about it being gimmicky. It is laughable when I see "Mrs. Jones", 45 year old overweight housewife, doing one legged depth jumps supersetted with Bosu ball dumbbell curls. This is the most beneficial use of plyos, to take advantage of newbies who are impressed that a trainer is doing something different then they have seen before. I think Tony Little should do Depth Jumps in between sets of the Gazelle for next informercial.LOL...I think the guy died a while back didnt he? Going to be a little harder if he did.

Bryan Hildebrand
11-08-2009, 02:06 AM
its called training an overall athelticism. yes, you can be hypertrophic AND train for athletic performance.