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View Full Version : Questions about Dave Palumbo's Bulking diet



ifrenzy
02-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Found this on a different site, I could not find the link to the original article. I am 6'3 204 pounds, started at 185 and want to bulk to 230/240.

FOOD INTAKE:

When attempting to gain mass, the most common pitfall confronted by most bodybuilders is that they simply do not consume enough protein. If you ask them if they eat enough, they all invariable reply,

"You wouldn't believe how much I eat!"

My response to that statement is,

"You've never seen me eat, have you?"

At that point, the inquisitor invariably starts getting nervous (as if they have finally come to grips with the fact that they're outgunned). My next inquiring question is,

"How much protein do you eat per day?"

to which most people answer,

"I'm not sure, but it's a lot!"

They aren't sure how much protein they eat, but they're sure that they eat a lot-now there's a real logician! Once I've reached this point in the "interview" process (as I like to call it), I realize what I am dealing with and I stop asking stupid questions that I definitely know the answers to. Instead, I help these individuals to construct a mass-gaining diet that will fit their particular needs (Remember: The main goal is to gain lean muscle mass while minimizing fat gains).

Another very important tenet of gaining mass is that, while frequent protein consumption is important, over-consumption of protein can also be detrimental to muscle gains. Because your body can only process so much protein at one sitting (this amount varies from individual to individual), consuming too much protein taxes the liver and kidneys (since these organs need to metabolize, detoxify, and excrete the extra protein) and this invariably stunts the body's ability to synthesize new muscle. Remember, we don't want to draw valuable energy needed for protein synthesis to help and aid the digestion and detoxification of excess protein.

Back in the early 90's, bodybuilders (myself included) were consuming 500-600g of protein per day in an effort to increase muscle gains. What we discovered in the last 5-10 years is that we were wasting most of this protein and causing our bodies to have to work extra hard to break it all down. Meanwhile, bodybuilders were greatly deprived of essential fats such as linoleic acid (omega-6 fats) and alpha linolenic acid (omega-3 fats), cholesterol-fats (from egg yolks and red meat) for steroidal hormone synthesis, and monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil and macadamia nut oil) for muscle cell membrane repair. What we were essentially doing back then was consuming huge amounts of protein and getting our fatty acid requirements indirectly by way of all the protein we ate (all animal protein sources also contain fat). The problem was that we were only getting animal fat protein. This still left us in a fat-deprived state. If you fail to consume essential fats in your diet (just as if you fail to eat enough protein), the end result will be stifled muscle gains (if on a bulking cycle) or reduced fat losses (if on a diet).

TAKE HOME MESSAGE: The body does not like to be deprived of protein or fat-- both are essential nutrients for optimum lean muscle gains. On the other hand, carbohydrates (of which I have not even mentioned once) are completely unessential nutrients. If, as bodybuilders or regular sedentary individuals, we were never to consume another gram of carbohydrates, our bodies would continue to grow muscle and metabolize fat without a single hesitation (and most of us would find that we got much leaner, as well). If some of you think I have a secret weapon in my arsenal of muscle-building, fat-burning, techniques, you're correct. It's called KNOWLEDGE!

To reiterate, carbohydrates are not considered essential nutrients in the muscle-building process; however, they are a very necessary source of energy when in a mass-gaining stage since we do not want to use all the essential muscle-building fat to fuel our workouts. When in a gaining stage, then, carbohydrates are a great energy source to preserve the dietary protein and fat for muscle-building purposes. While in a dieting stage; however, fat becomes a much more desirable energy source since it suppresses insulin release (carbs stimulate insulin release), it helps the body to maintain energy levels while on a reduced calorie diet (carbohydrates being the reduced calories), it provides essential fatty acids to the body which prevents protective "preservation" modes from occurring (whereby fat mobilization is halted), and it helps to stabilize blood sugar levels (reducing food cravings and increasing satiety).


EXAMPLE OF A TYPICAL MASS GAINING DIET:


MEAL 1:

6 whole omega-3 eggs with 1 cup of oatmeal


MEAL 2:

Meal Replacement SHAKE with a liquid carbohydrate drink (such as GATORAIDE or ULTRAFUEL)



MEAL 3:

? pound (8oz) of chicken (or turkey or filet of sole or shrimp) with ? cup nuts (almonds, cashews, or walnuts) with 1 cup RICE


MEAL 4:

Same as MEAL 2


MEAL 5:

? pound (8oz) of red meat (or salmon or swordfish) with a salad with 2 tablespoon of olive or macadamia nut oil and vinegar with 1 baked potato and/or yam


MEAL 6: Same as MEAL 3


MEAL 7: Same as MEAL 2


MEAL 8: 6 whole omega-3 eggs with1 cup grits



SUGGESTED MASS-GAINING SUPPLEMENTS:



1. Multivitamin 2 x per day (take all vitamins with food): Men should take a multivitamin "without iron" added (women require iron since they lose blood, and thus, iron when they menstruate monthly)
2. Vitamin C 1000mg 2 x per day (anti-oxidant): Antioxidants prevent damage from free radicals (which can further damage muscle cells even after the workout is completed). By reducing cellular damage to muscle tissue, it enables the damaged muscle (from training) to repair itself at a greatly accelerated rate
3. Vitamin E (with Selenium) 400IU 2x per day (anti-oxidant): Two other vital Antioxidants.
4. Omega-3 Fish Oil Pills 1000mg2-3x per day (essential omega-3 fats)
5. Evening Primrose Oil 1300mg 2 x per day (essential omega-6 fats): As mentioned before, essential fatty acids are required to help rebuild broken down tissues in the body. If not consumed, daily, they will, essentially, stunt future muscle growth.
6. MSM Powder (for joints and tissue repair) 2000mg 2 x per day: All bodybuilders, at one time or another, have had joint pain and/or injuries. MSM is an extremely bio-available source of sulfur that is vital in the repair of connective tissue (joint surfaces, ligaments, tendons, and cartilage). Sulfur is also a necessary component in the repair and synthesis of muscle tissue and since we don't eat many foods that are high in sulfur, MSM becomes a very desirable supplement to the mass-gaining or contest-dieting bodybuilder.
7. Glucosamine sulfate 1000mg 2x per day: Glucosamine sulfate is another component of connective tissue that is very rarely consumed in the diet (since not many people eat ligaments and tendons along with there chicken breasts and filet mignons). Ingesting adequate amounts of glucosamine, has, experimentally, been illustrated to aid in the repair of torn meniscal cartilages, degenerative joint surfaces, and weak ligaments and tendons.
8. Creatine 5 grams 2 x per day (5g in the morning/ 5g after you train): Creatine is one of the most incredible natural supplements to hit the market. Its strong presence, even after almost 10 years on the market, is a testament to its truly unique abilities. It does two distinct, yet invaluable, jobs in the body.
First, it causes a volumizing (swelling) effect on the muscle cells such that the muscles find themselves in an extremely anabolic environment 24 hours a day. NOTE: Muscle cells love to be well hydrated. In fact, dehydrated muscle cells are very catabolic-that is, they are much more likely to break down.

Second, Creatine buffers ATP levels in muscle tissue (ATP is the only energy source that powers the muscle cells). The reason your muscles never run out of energy is because Creatine (as Creatine-phosphate inside the muscle cell) ensures that ATP levels are constantly regenerated. The more Creatine found inside the muscle cell, the greater the potential source of ATP. This is a great advantage to over-trained, contest, bodybuilders and endurance athletes who require tremendous stores of ATP to fuel these long, strenuous workouts.



Does anyone know the ratios of this diet? I added it on fitday and its 42p/36f/22c. Another question, instead of the liquid carbohydrate drink with the meal replacement, could I add 1/2 cup of old fashioned oats? And 12 eggs a day seems like too much, in your opinion do you think its fine? Thanks.

Mighty
02-26-2009, 07:41 PM
I don't know the answers, but this is an awesome post. Thanks for puting it up

gonneke
02-27-2009, 06:08 AM
Great post Thanks !

THUNDERGOD
02-27-2009, 10:23 AM
If you are wanting to add quality size then follow the diet. Use waxy maize instead of the Gatoraid drink. You will need those carbs pre and post workout to help gain muscle. If you are not sure how your body will respond to all the carbs, start by using only half of the carbs per day and gradually work your way up. And be sure to use a high quality whey protein powder and weigh your food!!! Fitday.com should get you close to where you want to be as far as the macros go, you just have to add in the omega3 eggs, protein powder and any other foods that are not listed. There is also a govt. nutritional website somewhere, but I dont have the site handy right now.

ifrenzy
02-27-2009, 06:34 PM
So would I be alright eating 1/2 cup of oats over the the liquid carbohydrate drink in the shakes?

Transporter22
03-01-2009, 09:52 AM
The purpose of having the liquid carbohydrate drink or the waxymaize is to get FAST acting carbs into your system to stimulate an insulin spike and drive nutrients into your muscles. Oats are a SLOW burning source of carbs and you won't get the desired insulin spike.

ifrenzy
03-05-2009, 01:35 AM
The purpose of having the liquid carbohydrate drink or the waxymaize is to get FAST acting carbs into your system to stimulate an insulin spike and drive nutrients into your muscles. Oats are a SLOW burning source of carbs and you won't get the desired insulin spike.

So if I replace the waxymaize with gatorade, how many ounces of the liquid gatorade do I use in my drink or do i get the powder?

Myth
03-05-2009, 02:15 AM
so if i replace the waxymaize with gatorade, how many ounces of the liquid gatorade do i use in my drink or do i get the powder?

waxy maize is much cheaper than gatorade. You would consume the number of carbs you are alloted for that particular meal.

ifrenzy
03-05-2009, 03:09 PM
waxy maize is much cheaper than gatorade. You would consume the number of carbs you are alloted for that particular meal.

Alright thanks, I am going to be ordering some today. While I am waiting for the waxy maize to arrive, would gatorade be ok? Also, does anyone know the macros for this diet? I added it up on fitday and got 37 percent protein 37 percent fat 26 percent carbohydrate.

GENESIS
03-05-2009, 03:17 PM
Alright thanks, I am going to be ordering some today. While I am waiting for the waxy maize to arrive, would gatorade be ok? Also, does anyone know the macros for this diet? I added it up on fitday and got 37 percent protein 37 percent fat 26 percent carbohydrate.

No Genius Here but it sounds like a ballpark number.

Myth
03-05-2009, 05:36 PM
Alright thanks, I am going to be ordering some today. While I am waiting for the waxy maize to arrive, would gatorade be ok? Also, does anyone know the macros for this diet? I added it up on fitday and got 37 percent protein 37 percent fat 26 percent carbohydrate.

Yeah get gatorade powder till the waxy arrives. The macro ratios mean absolutely nothing. What matters is number of PCF alloted to each pound of lean body mass.

ifrenzy
06-06-2009, 04:59 AM
Just wondering, what would the ideal meal replacement drink on this diet consist of? Thanks.

ifrenzy
06-07-2009, 04:55 PM
sorry for all the questions but doesn anyone know how many scoops of ultrafuel i should take with my meal replacement shake?

Shadow
06-07-2009, 06:12 PM
Where did you find this? The diet posted is different than the off-season bulking diet Dave has posted in the beginning of his Q&A.

Trixter
06-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Where did you find this? The diet posted is different than the off-season bulking diet Dave has posted in the beginning of his Q&A.

I'd also found that in the past, but not sure where. I think it was on the MD or BB.com forums. The one in the Q&A here is much better.

Shadow
06-07-2009, 09:11 PM
That's what I thought.

beezy13
06-08-2009, 06:43 PM
The one posted here is older and one dave put up while at MD, with his new species line he has changed a few things i.e. drink carbolyze instead of gatorade. Just look at his Q&A, his new mass diet is posted there, follow that and it does work.

militantmuscle
06-08-2009, 07:16 PM
If you are going to follow this diet, a good idea would be to also change it up periodically with some overeating or some depleting for a short period, 1-2 days, to allow for a greater anabolic/metabolic burst (natural hormones increasing, or metabolism increasing due to change in diet).

ifrenzy
06-08-2009, 10:27 PM
is it ok to use olive oil in the pre workout shake instead of mac nut oil? I dont have any.

militantmuscle
06-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Yes

ifrenzy
06-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Is there anything I can replace the final meal of 5 eggs with? 11 eggs seems like too much.

Shadow
06-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Probably some cottage cheese or something, but remember, on Dave's diet these are also omega 3 eggs, so you're getting your final dose of those for the day. And if you're worried about cholesterol, you should be fine unless you have a history of cholesterol problems. Only then would I be worried about it.

ifrenzy
06-14-2009, 06:41 PM
on days when I dont workout is it ok to take the waxy maize and whey shakes still or should I not?

militantmuscle
06-15-2009, 05:17 AM
Sure, a good time to use it would be in the morning right when you wake up.

ifrenzy
06-16-2009, 06:25 PM
MEAL 1:
6 whole eggs (buy the OMEGA-3 EGGS they sell in the supermarket) with 1 cup of Oatmeal (cooked)

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 40g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate) with 1 tablespoon of Macadamia Nut Oil

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING


MEAL 3: (post-workout)
SHAKE: 55g Whey Protein** with 50g Waxy Maize*** (high molecular weight carbohydrate).


MEAL 4:
“LEAN PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz (cooked) of chicken (or turkey or lean fish or shrimp)-- with ˝ cup cashew nuts (or almonds or walnuts) with 1 cup (cooked) RICE (brown)

MEAL 5:
“FATTY PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz (cooked) of red meat (or salmon or swordfish) with a salad with 2 tablespoon of olive oil (or macadamia nut oil) and vinegar with 1 baked potato and/or yam

MEAL 6: Repeat One of Above

MEAL 7: 5 whole eggs


+++++ All meals are interchangeable. You can substitute one for another.

*** Cook your eggs in MACADAMIA NUT OIL and add a tablespoon to all your chicken fish, meats--


I added up the numbers for this and got:

4,259 calories

180.8 grams of fat

292.4 carbohydrates

348.1 grams of protein

These are the numbers I got when I added up this on fitday. Do these numbers look right? Thanks.

Joshua H
06-17-2009, 12:24 PM
I am 209lbs at 12% and this is what I have been on for almost 2 weeks now. I made some adjustments based on costs but the concept and guidelines are still 100% compliant with Daves diet for offseason purposes. I keep the diet the same all week long on or off day. I do cardio 3x a week for 30 minutes HIIT style as well.

Dropped a pound this past week (Monday morning weigh in) so I may have to bump the calories up a hair to fix that.


MEAL 1:
6 whole omega3 eggs with 3/4 dry measure oats

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 3/4 cup dry measure oats with 1 tablespoon of canola oil

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 50g Waxy Maize

MEAL 4:
“LEAN PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz cooked chicken, turkey or lean fish with 36 almonds (or 3 Tbsp NPB) with 1 cup cooked brown rice

MEAL 5:
“FATTY PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz cooked red meat or salmon with 1 tablespoon of canola oil with 1 baked 6oz baked potato

MEAL 6: 6 whole omega3 eggs


+++++ All meals are interchangeable. You can substitute one for another.


I added up the numbers for this and got:

3,220 calories

124 grams of fat

239 carbohydrates

287 grams of protein

Shadow
06-17-2009, 12:48 PM
You mean OLIVE oil, right? If you're actually using canola oil, you may want to rethink that.

Joshua H
06-17-2009, 03:59 PM
No canola, more mono fats in canola then olive, plus the EVOO has the most horrid aftertaste I have ever found in an oil. I can use it in a shake but as a add on oil to meats, eggs, veggies, I gag every time, kid you not. Canola I can put down straight and be just fine. Almost flavorless.

Joshua H
06-17-2009, 04:01 PM
Healthy Fats
One way to reshape your diet is by choosing heart-healthy oils. Canola oil, which is made from the crushed seeds of the canola plant, is among the healthiest of cooking oils. It has the lowest saturated fat content of any oil commonly consumed in the U.S., at just 7%. By comparison, sunflower oil has 12% saturated fat, corn oil has 13%, and olive oil has 15%.

Although it's low in saturated fat, canola oil is very high in healthy unsaturated fats. It's an excellent source of the omega-6 fatty acid, linoleic acid, and it is higher in the omega-3 fatty acid alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) than any other oil commonly used. These fats are particularly important in the diet because the human body can't produce them.

Health Benefits
Studies show that ALA may help protect the heart by its effect on blood pressure, cholesterol, and inflammation. There is enough evidence of canola oil's heart benefits that the FDA now allows canola oil manufacturers to label their products with this qualified health claim:

"Limited and not conclusive scientific evidence suggests that eating about 1 1/2 tablespoons (19 grams) of canola oil daily may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease due to the unsaturated fat content in canola oil. To achieve this possible benefit, canola oil is to replace a similar amount of saturated fat and not increase the total number of calories you eat in a day. One serving of this product contains [x] grams of canola oil."

Substituting canola oil for other fats in your diet is an easy way to help you eat healthier. One study shows that substituting canola oil and canola oil-based margarine for other oils and spreads can help adults meet the daily dietary recommendations for saturated and unsaturated fat. Switching to only canola-based products could reduce your saturated fat intake by almost 10%, and increase your ALA intake by nearly 73%, shows the study, published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association.

Debunking Canola Oil Myths
Stories have been circulating on the Internet claiming that canola oil is made from the rapeseed plant, and contains substances that are toxic to humans. The rumor claims that these toxins can lead to ailments ranging from respiratory distress to blindness in humans.

Canola is often confused with rapeseed. The rapeseed plant contains high levels of erucic acid, a substance that in large quantities can be toxic to humans. However, canola is produced from the canola plant, which contains levels of erucic acid well below the FDA's standards.

ifrenzy
06-17-2009, 04:55 PM
I am 209lbs at 12% and this is what I have been on for almost 2 weeks now. I made some adjustments based on costs but the concept and guidelines are still 100% compliant with Daves diet for offseason purposes. I keep the diet the same all week long on or off day. I do cardio 3x a week for 30 minutes HIIT style as well.

Dropped a pound this past week (Monday morning weigh in) so I may have to bump the calories up a hair to fix that.


MEAL 1:
6 whole omega3 eggs with 3/4 dry measure oats

MEAL 2: (pre-workout)
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 3/4 cup dry measure oats with 1 tablespoon of canola oil

GYM: WEIGHT TRAINING

MEAL 3: (post-workout)
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 50g Waxy Maize

MEAL 4:
“LEAN PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz cooked chicken, turkey or lean fish with 36 almonds (or 3 Tbsp NPB) with 1 cup cooked brown rice

MEAL 5:
“FATTY PROTEIN MEAL” 8oz cooked red meat or salmon with 1 tablespoon of canola oil with 1 baked 6oz baked potato

MEAL 6: 6 whole omega3 eggs


+++++ All meals are interchangeable. You can substitute one for another.


I added up the numbers for this and got:

3,220 calories

124 grams of fat

239 carbohydrates

287 grams of protein

Hmmm why are my numbers a lot higher than yours?

ifrenzy
06-17-2009, 05:03 PM
When dave says to add mac / olive oil to all your chicken meats etc. Is it ok to just add the olive oil to say the rice in the lean protein meals and the potato in the fatty protein meal.

Shadow
06-17-2009, 05:24 PM
No canola, more mono fats in canola then olive, plus the EVOO has the most horrid aftertaste I have ever found in an oil. I can use it in a shake but as a add on oil to meats, eggs, veggies, I gag every time, kid you not. Canola I can put down straight and be just fine. Almost flavorless.

I'm not convinced on this canola oil business, despite the evidence you've posted. Hopefully somebody else chimes in on this.

Shadow
06-17-2009, 05:25 PM
When dave says to add mac / olive oil to all your chicken meats etc. Is it ok to just add the olive oil to say the rice in the lean protein meals and the potato in the fatty protein meal.

That's what I do sometimes. Doesn't really matter, as long as you get it in you.

Youngguns
06-17-2009, 07:46 PM
Why not eat a banana or fruit instead of gatorade or waxy maize?

Shadow
06-17-2009, 08:36 PM
Why not eat a banana or fruit instead of gatorade or waxy maize?

My guess is since it's a fluid it gets into your system faster. And waxy maize is supposed to digest really fast as well.

Joshua H
06-17-2009, 11:49 PM
Hmmm why are my numbers a lot higher than yours?


My ratios are exactly the same but my absolute macros are lower then yours. I am not some 225lbs bodybuilder walking around at sub 10%. My stats justify the difference in calorie needs. But as I mentioned, I dropped 1lb after 1 week so I added in some more carbs to what I have listed in my post. The 3/4 cup oats are all 1 cup since yesterday.

Joshua H
06-17-2009, 11:51 PM
I would go with Mac Nut Oil in a heart beat now that a found it some place but at 8 bucks for 8 oz thats a bit steep for a recent Masters graduate with loans to pay and work to be found yet. I will make the flip to EVOO as I seem to find that Dave only allows this oil as an alternative sub for Mac Nut Oil.

Razer
06-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Where did you find this? The diet posted is different than the off-season bulking diet Dave has posted in the beginning of his Q&A.

Shadow could you point me toward the correct Q&A where Dave states his bulk diet? Thanks in advance.

Shadow
06-19-2009, 05:15 PM
Shadow could you point me toward the correct Q&A where Dave states his bulk diet? Thanks in advance.

Beginning of this thread:

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=201&highlight=dave+palumbo+q%26amp%3Ba

ifrenzy
06-24-2009, 10:52 PM
Does anyone know how many grams are in a cup (cooked) of oatmeal and brown rice? Thanks.

Trixter
06-25-2009, 08:58 AM
They're both roughly 30g of carbs, give or take a few.

tpeter
10-09-2013, 11:37 AM
They're both roughly 30g of carbs, give or take a few.


Cooked rice per cup 42 and oats 52.. Dunno where u get 30

Curt James
10-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Cooked rice per cup 42 and oats 52.. Dunno where u get 30

Uh, he got it from 2009?

beefyfan
10-09-2013, 06:14 PM
Cooked rice per cup 42 and oats 52.. Dunno where u get 30

Troll much?

Hoss06
10-09-2013, 08:16 PM
Holy thread bump from 09!