Westside and How to use it

[Squid]

Westside and How to use it

Gonna write a basic outline for newcomers to the sport and people who are familiar with it and want to add things, All the fun things

Westside incorporates 2 max effort and 2 dynamic effort days, 1 of each for bench and squat, squat and deadlift are coupled because of the similarity in muscles used, heavy work twice a week is not only taxing for the muscles but the neuro pathways it is for this reason that when on this program beginners are reccommended to have 3-4 weeks on and 1-2 weeks off and increasing time on as a persons CNS develops

An example workout:


Day 1 - Max Effort (ME) squat/deadlift
Squat/deadlift/good morning - Using one of these exercises or a variation of them for no more than 3 consecutive weeks work up from a warm up in sets of 3 until 3 repetitions are no longer possible and switch to a single rep working up to 4 single repetitions of between 90-100% of your max.
Lower back work - Choose from glute-ham raises, reverse hyper-extensions, half deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts, stiff-legged deadlifts (SLDLs), hyper-extensions or cable pulls - 4 x 8-10 (weighted if need be to stay within rep range)
Abs - Any form of rectus abdominus work - 4 x 8-12
Lat work - Any form of upper back work such as wide grip chins, pull downs, barbell rows, cable rows - 4 x 8-10


Day 2- Max Effort (ME) Bench press
Bench Press of any of the above mentioned variations working from a triple to a single.
Tricep work - Any form of core strength tricep work such as close grip bench, JM presses, Tate presses, lying dumbbell extensions - 4 x 5-10
Cable pushdowns - A variety of cable attachments may be used (flat bar, V bar, rope) - 4 x 8-12
Shoulder work - choice of either lateral or front raises - 4 x 10-12
Lat work - as above - 4 x 8-10
Biceps - Pick any bicep exercise of your choice - 3 x 8-10


Day 3- Dynamic Effort (DE) Squat
Box squat 8-12 doubles with 45-65% of 1RM
Lower back work - as Day 1
External Oblique Training - 4 x 8-12
Neck work


Day 4- Dynamic Effort (DE) Bench press
Speed bench 8-10 triples with 45-46% 1 RM
Tricep work - as Day 2
Pushdowns - as Day 2
Lat work - as Day 1
Biceps - as Day 2


This is a high volume routine, but with adequate rest and nutrition this training is plausible for all trainers. However you may wish to drop the number of sets on assistance exercises to 2-3 sets rather than the stated 4. Listening to your body and the way it feels should enable you to decide this.

How to use it

Each person should tweak this for their own use, for example Matt Kroczaleski, started over 10 years ago using this template, he has changed it so much the only thing that is recognisable are the core lifts

I personally have replace dynamic bench for Repetition work this just involved changing the core lift to rep work with dumbells

[rinse]

Well I wouldn't recommend that a beginner takes 2 weeks off after 4 weeks of training. Just take a deload week every 4-6 week.

[crashcrew56]

Good thread

On the topic of you changing out the dynamic bench for repitition work, I would definetly suggest you rotating this around and fit in some dynamic work. As your numbers on bench start to go up it will become increasingly important to maintain your speed.

Also when DE bench or squat is being performed you are going to want to coplete each rep as fast as possible. Bands are a great way to accomidate resistance, especially for your DE days, the emphasis should be fast up and fast down.

[bad bad leroy brown]

Good thread

On the topic of you changing out the dynamic bench for repitition work, I would definetly suggest you rotating this around and fit in some dynamic work. As your numbers on bench start to go up it will become increasingly important to maintain your speed.

Also when DE bench or squat is being performed you are going to want to coplete each rep as fast as possible. Bands are a great way to accomidate resistance, especially for your DE days, the emphasis should be fast up and fast down.


I want to put together a cycle with bands to get my raw bench up. Not sure how to do it though. I spoke to Ben White and he like chains

[Northman]

On your DE days do you still use the same percent for triceps? And how many days off after the 4th day?

[Thad]

I want to put together a cycle with bands to get my raw bench up. Not sure how to do it though. I spoke to Ben White and he like chains
Two things that I think that shot my bench up were, heavy floor presses and speed bench with chains. I used a small metal log alot for my floor press and I would also use an axle once in awhile. I also liked doing heavy close grip bench press.

I didn't do regular bench in 6-8 weeks and my bench went up 25 pounds.

[crashcrew56]

I want to put together a cycle with bands to get my raw bench up. Not sure how to do it though. I spoke to Ben White and he like chains


I think a cycle should include bands and chains, along with straight weight. Rob Luyando suggest to only use bands in workouts for no more than 3 or 4 weeks in a row.

I really like bands to accomidate resistance on speed work, I also like using them in a reverse band setup on ME days too. I think they are good to get your CNS used to handling heavier weights, but they are somthing that shouldn't be done very often because the heavier weight really puts more strain on your body. That doesn't mean that you can't use bands on your ME workouts.

[tjoe]

I didn't bench much at all during my strongman training. Couple rounds of close grip with 315 and just before my dieting I still managed a 405 single (good for me since my best ever was 410) I am positive it was all the overhead pressing I was doing for my events.

[Squid]

On your DE days do you still use the same percent for triceps? And how many days off after the 4th day?
I have it as one day on, one day off and what do you mean % for triceps?

[Squid]

I didn't bench much at all during my strongman training. Couple rounds of close grip with 315 and just before my dieting I still managed a 405 single (good for me since my best ever was 410) I am positive it was all the overhead pressing I was doing for my events.

I noticed alot of Strongmen just do 5/3/1 and throw in events and conditioning, whats your opinion of that?


Good thread

On the topic of you changing out the dynamic bench for repitition work, I would definetly suggest you rotating this around and fit in some dynamic work. As your numbers on bench start to go up it will become increasingly important to maintain your speed.

Also when DE bench or squat is being performed you are going to want to coplete each rep as fast as possible. Bands are a great way to accomidate resistance, especially for your DE days, the emphasis should be fast up and fast down.

Don't have bands at my gym I might buy some and choke them on some dumbells


I want to put together a cycle with bands to get my raw bench up. Not sure how to do it though. I spoke to Ben White and he like chains

you just need to choke them on pegs or dumbbells you can find tutorials on this on youtube, if you can't you can get the EFS exercise index, it shows how to do it on there

[Northman]

I have it as one day on, one day off and what do you mean % for triceps?


Do you do 45 percent for triceps on that day as well?

[Squid]

Do you do 45 percent for triceps on that day as well?
There are no percentages given for any tricep work, unless you mean on the bench for which without bands or chains I use about 70% you can take that weight, and obtain a weight + chains, I'm not sure what the math is, a more experienced powerlifter or strongman should be able to help you with this

[crashcrew56]

You don't use percentages for accessory muscle work like triceps our shoulders, the percentages are used for your core lifts

[Northman]

Ah ty for the info.

[tjoe]

squid - 5/3/1 with events and conditioning... I like it. I actually just started looking into the 5/3/1 and since you "rep out" on the last set and warm up very easily, I think it would be great for strongman. (since strongman is one all out set)

[Squid]

let us know how it goes if you do do it

[UK_Powerlifter]

Why does the bench press % stay the same on DE day stay the same whilst the squat/deadlift are waved? Dave Tate said that the bench stayed the same percentage on DE days in his seminar dvd. I have never understood why.

[Squid]

because on DE you use bands and chains which help you to build speed

[UK_Powerlifter]

I'm not quite sure I get what you mean. Even with bands and chains the weights are waved in the squat and deadlifts but stay the same on the bench.

[crashcrew56]

If found that I can take higher percentages on my squats and still maintain my speed, but with bench it's not the same for me. On bench I don't really go any higher than 50% of my raw 1RM for speed work, but on squats I will do my speed work with only briefs on and I will go up to 60% of my fully equipped 1RM.

[UK_Powerlifter]

That cleared it up for me. Thanks. Are squatting briefs really necessary on DE squat day. My hips seem to be hurting more and more everytime I do them. How exactly do squatting briefs work in terms of stopping your hips from getting so beat up?

[crashcrew56]

I don't think wearing briefs are necessary for your DE day

The briefs help to keep your hips tight and warm. I always use my briefs on DE squat workouts to help protect my hips, I used to hold off putting my briefs on for a while in my workouts but lately I have been putting them on early in my workout and I havn't really had any pain in my hips sine I've started doing that.

[crazycenter]

would there be any way that the DE squat and DE bench sessions could be combined to make a DE whole body workout, ie speed squats, speed bench and some light assistance work.
i really struggle getting to the gym 4 times a week and but really like the westside program.
i am hoping to get ready for a novices powerlifting comp in june. would there be a better program for a beginner?

[TheTransformator]

Thank you for taking the time to do the write up...very interesting...!

[Squid]

would there be any way that the DE squat and DE bench sessions could be combined to make a DE whole body workout, ie speed squats, speed bench and some light assistance work.
i really struggle getting to the gym 4 times a week and but really like the westside program.
i am hoping to get ready for a novices powerlifting comp in june. would there be a better program for a beginner?

I wouldn't recommend it if you can only go 3 times do DE squat on the lowest box you can get on

[crashcrew56]

would there be any way that the DE squat and DE bench sessions could be combined to make a DE whole body workout, ie speed squats, speed bench and some light assistance work.
i really struggle getting to the gym 4 times a week and but really like the westside program.
i am hoping to get ready for a novices powerlifting comp in june. would there be a better program for a beginner?



I use DE(sort-of) and ME days, and I only train 3 times a week. I'm on a 10-day cycle as apposed to the standard 7-day. I don't think this is a bad program for a novice, though for a novice I probably wouldn't suggest some of the more advanced exercises or using bands or chains.

[Travis Bell]

You would not want to combine the two days into one DE day. One will effect the other.

Using bands and chains is a cornerstone of helping a lifter develop speed. They just need to be used correctly for the program to work properly. Most do it wrong

[Strikerrjones]

Box squat 8-12 doubles with 45-65% of 1RM


Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm a little confused about this part. Does this mean 8-12 sets of 2 repetitions?

[Strikerrjones]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm a little confused about this part. Does this mean 8-12 sets of 2 repetitions?

Bump because I'm a retard and power lifting terminology confuses me.

[Squid]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm a little confused about this part. Does this mean 8-12 sets of 2 repetitions?
It does indeed but without bands or chain I think this isn't heavy enough

[Strikerrjones]

It does indeed but without bands or chain I think this isn't heavy enough

Ok, cool. Yeah, I was thinking that was really light... what would you suggest? I'm kind of started to become interested in powerlifting recently and I'm a noob to it, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.

How long do you rest in between each of the sets on both DE and ME days?

[crashcrew56]

On DE days I keep my rest periods short, usually there's only 3 of us doing this at a time and we use the same weight so it's just one after another. For ME usually the rest periods are pretty long.

Maybe Travis could comment on this though, he would know more about the Westside method than anyone else here

[Travis Bell]

Yes, on DE day we keep the rest periods short, otherwise we'd be in the gym for 2hrs trying to get all our sets in. Accessory work is kept light (compared to ME day)

On ME day we do take a little bit longer between sets, but not the 10min you see some guys take. I'm in the gym to train, not sit around on my butt so I like to keep the group moving so everyone has about 3-5min between sets. Accessory work is heavier and I speed things back up so I can get through it in a timely manner

[crashcrew56]

Travis, what do you mean when you say that most people use bands and chains wrong?

[Big Baby]

Great thread.


Ok, cool. Yeah, I was thinking that was really light... what would you suggest? I'm kind of started to become interested in powerlifting recently and I'm a noob to it, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.

How long do you rest in between each of the sets on both DE and ME days?

If you are new to PLing (and I assume going to train raw), I'd suggest to look up Wendler's 5-3-1 Method.

Nothing against Westside training, but it's VERY had to perform correctly without personal instruction from an experienced lifter and lends itself to equipped training.

[Travis Bell]

Travis, what do you mean when you say that most people use bands and chains wrong?

Most people use too much band tension, especially on dynamic effort day, both for squatting and benching. You want to make sure the majority of the weight is bar weight

With chains, most end up setting them up in such a way that they never deload completely at the bottom. As well, it's actually the opposite with chains, people don't normally use enough because chains are expensive. They'll have one or two sets on there and unless you're really weak, it's not enough.

Both are extremely valuable tools however


Great thread.



If you are new to PLing (and I assume going to train raw), I'd suggest to look up Wendler's 5-3-1 Method.

Nothing against Westside training, but it's VERY had to perform correctly without personal instruction from an experienced lifter and lends itself to equipped training.

This is also a very common misconception. Westside itself is not hard to use at all, although it can be difficult if you train alone. The concepts are what confuse most people

As far as it lending itself to equipped more than raw, that is also incorrect. We train raw more than any multiply gym out there. 90% of our bench training is raw, most of the squat training is in briefs only and knee wraps are never used in the gym. Several of us have done raw meets in the past and done very well, using the same stuff that we always do in the gym, just altering the max effort choices

[Big Baby]

This is also a very common misconception. Westside itself is not hard to use at all, although it can be difficult if you train alone. The concepts are what confuse most people

As far as it lending itself to equipped more than raw, that is also incorrect. We train raw more than any multiply gym out there. 90% of our bench training is raw, most of the squat training is in briefs only and knee wraps are never used in the gym. Several of us have done raw meets in the past and done very well, using the same stuff that we always do in the gym, just altering the max effort choices

I can say from my experience (and lifting with a @the time world class lifter), Westside can be very hard because of the near max work and missed attempts.

I don't have the article link but Wendler talks about this in an article and how frequent misses affect the CNS.

I in no way intend to discredit Westside, but I've found for my self using the 5-3 weeks (and then deloading with high volume speed work in the 3rd week) of the Wendler 5-3-1 has been enabled me to put on a noticeable amount of mass (been getting a lot of sincere "Are you taking steroids?" lately) and smashing all-time PRs.

I've talked to you extensively before Travis, so you know I respect you, Louie and Westside.

I just wanted a beginner to have all his options available.

I would also note though, a lot top raw lifters do quasi-Westside or completely different programs, so I think there's greater variation in the raw world.

I can say Westside is hands-down the best system for equipped lifting and for some may be the best raw training method.

[Travis Bell]

LOL well I would disagree for many many reasons here.

The proof is in the 531, a lot of people aren't getting the results out of the program that they'd like, but to each their own.

As far as what "top raw lifters" do, I've competed with many of them as well as talked about it, but possibly you know better than I do.

Missed attempts are the person's own fault. When doing max effort work, you have to pick your attempts wisely, making sure you hit small PRs along the way. If you're missing attempts in the gym all the time you're doing it wrong.

[crashcrew56]

Travis, do you think you could post some of your bench workouts in here, so we can get an idea of what you're doing. Both ME and DE workouts

[Travis Bell]

Not a problem cashcrew56. I keep all my stuff logged, but here was today's DE bench workout

DE Bench

bar x warmup
added doubled minis
bar x 10
135 x 10
185 x 3 - thumb length from the smooth
added choked purples
185 x 3
185 x 3
205 x 3 - pinkies on the ring
205 x 3
205 x 3
205 x 3 - comp grip
205 x 3
205 x 3

Floor Press - straight weight
*all sets thumb length from the smooth
225 x 10
275 x 10
335 x 13

Chain Press

15
10
10
8

V-Bar Pushdowns

80 x 15 x 4

Close Grip Pulldowns

170 x 10 x 4

CSR

2 plates 1 quarter x 10
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8

CSR Shrugs
2 plates 1 quarter x 10
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8

DB OHP

25 x 30
25 x 30
30 x 30
30 x 30

[crashcrew56]

Wow, that really is a lot of volume. How long are you usually at the gym on your DE workouts?

[Travis Bell]

Anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half at the most

[Big Baby]

LOL well I would disagree for many many reasons here.

The proof is in the 531, a lot of people aren't getting the results out of the program that they'd like, but to each their own.

As far as what "top raw lifters" do, I've competed with many of them as well as talked about it, but possibly you know better than I do.

Missed attempts are the person's own fault. When doing max effort work, you have to pick your attempts wisely, making sure you hit small PRs along the way. If you're missing attempts in the gym all the time you're doing it wrong.

I'm not trying to question the validity of Westside training, but highlighting it can be a hard system to master for a beginner.

Systems like 5-3-1 are much more user friendly and I think easier for beginners who may lack the one-on-one coaching you received.

[crashcrew56]

I'm not trying to question the validity of Westside training, but highlighting it can be a hard system to master for a beginner.

Systems like 5-3-1 are much more user friendly and I think easier for beginners who may lack the one-on-one coaching you received.


I think as long as someone is smart when picking their numbers, and if they arn't using equipment the coaching isn't as important when using the westside method

[Squid]

could I get this stickied?

also I am with Crash on this, I feel it's pretty easy to get to grips with it's just hard for people to wisely pick numbers

[danstrongman]

I've been doing variations of the Soviet/Romanian/Bulgarian strength training methods since the late 80s. Louie Simmons is a genius but I like Dave Tate's communication style better.

After my last meet in September I switched completely over to Westside except I didn't include a week off in week 10. I should have because week 12 I burnt out and later I got an injury which I had to take 5 days off from anyway.

Lately I've been throwing in many more ultra-high rep sets[100,50,25 rep sets]. It's helped rehab/prehab injury prone areas.

The biggest key to Westside is always rotating the exercises. 3 weeks @ + 90% 1RM is even sometime too much so the exercises must change.

My workout log is @ http://blog.bodybuilding.com/danstrongman

[Colossal]

Good original post, but personally I would NOT recommend the Westside system for an absolute beginner, or anyone with less than 4-5 years experience in the bench, squat, and deadlift. Someone who hasn't honed the technicalities of form and has a total <1000lbs has no business using bands and chains and a bunch of good morning variations. They just need to go and DO the three lifts and actually get strong in them.

I think the 5/3/1 is much simpler and better for building a foundation of raw strength. Anyone can use it, it's easily adjustable and offers a lot of options for assistance work depending on someone's goals. The problem with Westside is that it's not a delineated 'system' like 5/3/1; it's more of an amalgamation of principles and methods used by advanced lifters.

I have had some success with the Westside methods, but I also have the knowledge base to design my own (effective) programs and utilize the conjugate system. The problem with newbie lifters is that they get too caught up in the 'cool' stuff and neglect the simplicity of building a strength foundation. I see these guys at my gym who weigh all of about 160 lbs doing stuff like box squats with bands and chain-suspended GM variations, and they cant even deadlift 2x bodyweight or squat 315!!!

[crashcrew56]

Travis can you post one of your ME bench workouts on here?

[46&2]

Not a problem cashcrew56. I keep all my stuff logged, but here was today's DE bench workout

DE Bench

bar x warmup
added doubled minis
bar x 10
135 x 10
185 x 3 - thumb length from the smooth
added choked purples
185 x 3
185 x 3
205 x 3 - pinkies on the ring
205 x 3
205 x 3
205 x 3 - comp grip
205 x 3
205 x 3

Floor Press - straight weight
*all sets thumb length from the smooth
225 x 10
275 x 10
335 x 13

Chain Press

15
10
10
8

V-Bar Pushdowns

80 x 15 x 4

Close Grip Pulldowns

170 x 10 x 4

CSR

2 plates 1 quarter x 10
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8

CSR Shrugs
2 plates 1 quarter x 10
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8
3 plates 1 quarter x 8

DB OHP

25 x 30
25 x 30
30 x 30
30 x 30


Nice DE workout... never done choked purples.... You like it?

[46&2]

I disagree on the fact that newbies should NOT use the congugate system. I have, and it has helped INCREDIBLY! (Now, here is where I take back what I said) HOWEVER- I am training with someone who knows what they are doing and we frequently tape and log with alot of feedback from World lifters from Wild Iorn...

[Travis Bell]

Travis can you post one of your ME bench workouts on here?

Sorry, I haven't been paying attention to this thread. I'll post my workout from tomorrow if I remember!

One of the keys to the conjugate system is your volume should be high on De day, but the intensity (low percentages) should be low

On ME day, the volume should be proportionally lower, and the intensity high (high percentages)


Nice DE workout... never done choked purples.... You like it?

Louie has had me throwing those in addition to the doubled minis to help me develop more speed at lockout.


I disagree on the fact that newbies should NOT use the congugate system. I have, and it has helped INCREDIBLY! (Now, here is where I take back what I said) HOWEVER- I am training with someone who knows what they are doing and we frequently tape and log with alot of feedback from World lifters from Wild Iorn...

Marcus is a good guy and definitely knows his stuff

[crashcrew56]

Now is the higher volume something you work up to over time?

[46&2]

I WISH Marcus had time to look,I actually ask Becky Rich to look ;) I like her, she is smart and has a kick ass well, all her lifts are awesome. I aim to Becky Rich squat one day ;) (butt allllll the way on the floor!)

[Travis Bell]

Now is the higher volume something you work up to over time?

Nope, we have everyone do the high volume on DE day. Gotta get your work in.

Here is my workout from today


ME Bench

bar x 10
135 x 5
225 x 3
315 x 1 - all sets pinkie on the ring
405 x 1 - added 2brd
455 x 1
500 x 1
555 x 1 PR
500 x 4

Overhead Extensions

Green and purple band x 12
Green and 2 purples x 12
Green and 2 purples x 12
Green and 2 purples x 12

Panora Pressdowns - paused at lockout

90 x 8
90 x 8
90 x 8
90 x 8

Lateral Raises

10 x 50
10 x 50

I did my back work yesterday so no back work today otherwise there would have been two upper back movements in there, but as you can see, pressing movements volume is much lower than on DE day.

[Widge]

It does indeed but without bands or chain I think this isn't heavy enough

hmm, i think anything over 55% of 1rm i wil struggle to explode off a box prasuming that its decently low (below paralel) different for everyone tho and be best to get your max at the start and start at 40% and work up uintil you find a weight you can maintain good speed at.

[crashcrew56]

Travis, I went to a bench seminar recently and Paul Key was showing us how he said we should be speed benching with bands, and told us that it shlould be as fast up and as fast down as possible, it almost looked like he was bouncing it off the boards. Is this the correct way to do it?

[Travis Bell]

hmm, i think anything over 55% of 1rm i wil struggle to explode off a box prasuming that its decently low (below paralel) different for everyone tho and be best to get your max at the start and start at 40% and work up uintil you find a weight you can maintain good speed at.

With Westside, Louie recommends for straight weight, DE work (raw) that people wave their work in 65%, 70% and 75% for three week waves

[Travis Bell]

Travis, I went to a bench seminar recently and Paul Key was showing us how he said we should be speed benching with bands, and told us that it shlould be as fast up and as fast down as possible, it almost looked like he was bouncing it off the boards. Is this the correct way to do it?

Paul is a good friend of mine. Very good bencher.

Everyone will bench a little differently. I don't bounce off my chest, but the idea is to be fast.

This is the most recent video I could find of my DE work

VjtQmCO8A_o

Just to give you an idea of how mine looks.

[crashcrew56]

When you change your ME exerecise do you also change you DE exercise, or does the DE exercise stay the same?

When it comes to variations of exercises what would really make it a different exercise? Would squats with a SSB, box squats, squatting with a buffalo bar, free squats, and squats with band all be considered different exercises?

[Travis Bell]

DE exercises always stay the same. They need to be full range so as to train the explosiveness all the way through.

When it comes to changing the exercises, any variation you can think of is considered a different exercise.

SSB with green bands off a 14" box is one exercise

SSB with green bands off a 12" box is another

SSB with greens and purples off a 14" box is a third and the list goes on

[crashcrew56]

I see, so the variations can be very subtle. So would the same thing go for benching, with different boards being a different exercise?

I am asking about this because one of the reason I havn't been following the westside method is because my form in a shirt isn't that strong yet, and the same goes for my equipped squat, so I needed to make sure I keep working in my gear.


This thread should really be a sticky

[Travis Bell]

Yeah the same goes with boards

2brd with pinkies on the ring - first
2brd with pinkies on the ring and monster minis - second
2brd with thumbs from the smooth - 3rd
2brd with thumbs from the smooth and monster minis - 4th

etc. Like I said, list is pretty endless

[Not Dorian Yates]

Stupid question but what are floor presses?

[crashcrew56]

Paul is a good friend of mine. Very good bencher.

Everyone will bench a little differently. I don't bounce off my chest, but the idea is to be fast.

This is the most recent video I could find of my DE work

VjtQmCO8A_o

Just to give you an idea of how mine looks.


The floor press is in the video, it's where Travis is laying on the floor benching

[Not Dorian Yates]

If I'm askin too many questions let me know.

Whats the goal or meaning behind doing floor presses? Is it to make the lockout easier?

[Travis Bell]

If I'm askin too many questions let me know.

Whats the goal or meaning behind doing floor presses? Is it to make the lockout easier?

Works the triceps more.

If my floor press goes up, my bench goes up

[Not Dorian Yates]

Cool. Thanks

[AussieMuscle]

Thanks for posting this, I am now interested in focusing on powerlifting..

[AussieMuscle]

Does anyone have the 5/3/1 protocol?

[fatbackgoal]

Does anyone have the 5/3/1 protocol?

Check your pm.

[robert da strongman]

Does anyone have the 5/3/1 protocol?

i do have a copy in PDF format...looks like fatbackgoal might have you taken care of.

great program. several people i train with use it. i might need to go back to it after my next comp

[AussieMuscle]

Thanks for your help guys..

[Iron152]

There is no DE deadlift day?
like speed deads or anything, especially with bands?

Travis can you post an example of one of you have?

[crashcrew56]

There's no specific DE Deadlift day, but if you wanted to do speed deadlifts you would do them on your DE lower body day, after you squat.

[Cory Burns]

There's no specific DE Deadlift day, but if you wanted to do speed deadlifts you would do them on your DE lower body day, after you squat.

I always do them on DE lower, after squats.

[nikole95]

Great thread.



If you are new to PLing (and I assume going to train raw), I'd suggest to look up Wendler's 5-3-1 Method.

Nothing against Westside training, but it's VERY had to perform correctly without personal instruction from an experienced lifter and lends itself to equipped training.
Most people use too much band tension, especially on dynamic effort day, both for squatting and benching. You want to make sure the majority of the weight is bar weight


__________________
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[GameofInches]

Should Deads be done as a ME movement or left on DE days after DE squats? Thanks!

[crashcrew56]

It all depends on what you are trying to do with the lift that day, if you want to work on speed then you do it on your DE day, and if you are trying to deadlift heavy then do it on your ME day

[GameofInches]

It all depends on what you are trying to do with the lift that day, if you want to work on speed then you do it on your DE day, and if you are trying to deadlift heavy then do it on your ME day

Makes sense thanks

[Cory Burns]

Should Deads be done as a ME movement or left on DE days after DE squats? Thanks!

I rotate them as one of the options for a ME lower movement. I have personally had great results going back and forth between a deadlift movement and a squat or good morning movement.

[GameofInches]

I rotate them as one of the options for a ME lower movement. I have personally had great results going back and forth between a deadlift movement and a squat or good morning movement.

That sounds like a good idea. Does that mean you don't do deads on DE only on ME? Thanks!

[k4rtaden]

Online Yoga (http://www.emglivefitness.com)

[georgeman22]

Yes i think 5/3/1 is really better for the new comers and bench, squat, and deadlift is very difficult for them at start
..

[TheRage93]

Westside is the shit. I trained there for 2 days as I got invited by Louie. There morning ritual at bob Evans was an experience.
anyway, if done correctly, you will see massive strength gains. I put 35 to my bench in 3 months. 45 to my deadlift and squat. Just don't miss weights!!

[TheRage93]

Yes i think 5/3/1 is really better for the new comers and bench, squat, and deadlift is very difficult for them at start
..
I 100% agree. It's not there time to lift heavy yet.

[Gracie V]

I 100% agree. It's not there time to lift heavy yet.
I would have to disagree with this..Why start on a program that you won't/can't use forever?

When the beginners form starts to break down, that is their 1RM..shut them down and do downsets for form/technique work. I started using this method from day 1 and have coached several beginners using Westside...it doesn't take long to improve form and technique, especially utilizing both speed days properly..Westside can be made extremely simple, without bands or chains or specialty bars.

[ChiefMuscle]

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/efs-classic-the-periodization-bible/Here's a very detailed article from Dave Tate on Elitefts about the conjugate system.

[ChiefMuscle]

I have been an advocate for the conjugate system not only for powerlifting but also for athletes ie Joe Defranco WSB4SB. it is a very simple yet veryscientific approach. However if you don't have access to a variety of different bars (swiss bar, football bar, etc) you're really kind of limited as to what you can do. Also if you're training alone I wouldn't recommend westside. You're training partners and training atmosphere really make or break the system in my opinion.

[Gracie V]

I have been an advocate for the conjugate system not only for powerlifting but also for athletes ie Joe Defranco WSB4SB. it is a very simple yet veryscientific approach. However if you don't have access to a variety of different bars (swiss bar, football bar, etc) you're really kind of limited as to what you can do. Also if you're training alone I wouldn't recommend westside. You're training partners and training atmosphere really make or break the system in my opinion. I coach women online who train at fitness clubs without specialty bars ..there are literally dozens of variations u can do with a straight barbell..by the time you run through them all, sometimes it has been 16-18 wks and they are PR'ing everywhere.. I do very much agree about your training partners and environment playing a huge role..but I don't believe the system can be broken.. it is idiot proof..one bar: close, stance, wide stance, free squat, box squat, zerchers.. 4 different types of good mornings and i can go on and on and on

[Shawn Bellon]

Yeah I have a basic home gym myself so it is all about being creative. Even tempo, distance, pauses make a lift different.

1. Grip
2. Stance
3. Bar placement
4. Deadlifting distance
5. Pauses
6. Time under tension
7. Rest intervals

Alot of variations.

[Shawn Bellon]

This is a sample of a ME BP session for a raw lifter:



M/E Upper





Bench Press Against Doubled Mini Bands - 1RM


Barbell (Straight or EZ Curl) Skull Crushers - 3x8


Incline DB Tate Presses - 3x10





Medium Grip "Bamboo" Bar Bench Press w/Hanging KB's (Use Lightest Bar you have. Hand kettlebells or dumbbells if you don't have KB's, from bands) - 3x20


Incline Reverse Flys + Windmills - 3x20 Each

[Shawn Bellon]

DE Lower Session: The box squats are done with normal competition stance. The % of the bar weight will be increase in the standard wave load over 3 weeks or so.



Straight Bar + 50% Bar Weight + 25% Band Tension, Box Squat - 10x2


Competition Stance Deadlift Against Around 25% Band Tension - 1RM


GHD or 45 degree Snatch Grip Deadlift Back Extension - 8RM


Band Assisted Inverse Curls - 3x10


Dimmels @30% - 3x20











Sled Drag Oblique Twists (hold straps with arms extended out from body, rotating at the trunk) - 3x25 Per Side


100 Band Good Mornings

[hifrommike65]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86vH1FAgHYk

[hifrommike65]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBB1GO_e5iY

[hifrommike65]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvHM7H_hh80