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natron
11-13-2009, 03:14 PM
Initially I was going to write an article on the use of undenatured whey proteins (concentrate/isolate), however I've sucumbed to time restraints at the moment via work and 5 kids. Yeah, that's right, 5 kids!

So, with my anxiousness and all, a few hours of free time over the weekend, I've decided to get posting some information and studies to get the discussion moving forward now, rather than later. Especially with the state of world governments hoopla and all the H1N1 mind fucking going on.

We all (athletes/bodybuilders) know the importance of protein, dietary and in supplemental form, to combat the catabolic effect of diet and exercise, weight training etc. as well to stimulate protein synthesis and assist in muscle tissue growth. But I've noticed that most of us(generically) are not aware of the potential health benefits outside of muscle growth and blunting a catabolic state. In my opinion, we should all learn and pay attention to this, because of increasing disease and ailments, and why not increase our health overall, by taking a supplement that we might take anyhow? Sounds logical to me.

Of course, sometimes we do not discriminate between the types of protein we use, especially though supplementation. Often opting for whey protein concnetrate becausse of it's low price and efficiency for producing response in regards to lean mass accruel and recovery. But is it really worth the price difference to purchase undenatured proteins? Hell yeah, at least in my opinion.

Whey protein concentrate is of poor biological effects do to the denatured state of being produced with heat. Whey miscrofractions are delicate and damaged by heat. CMF (cold processed cross flow microfiltered) protein is the way to go, whether it's whey concnetrate or whey isolate. This allows the immune stimulating effects of the microfractions to remain intact, and this what seperates the effectiveness of proteins and the immune system.

Whether it be whey protein concentrate or whey isolate (undenatured), I prefer isolate because of it's higher protein and microfraction content. Is this important? Yeah, but it's not life or death, because they both acheive the same response, just undenatured whey isolate will do so more efficiently.


So, more discussion on this later. I'll post some reference material and some studies on undenatured whey proteins...

Feel free to chime in with thoughts and/or questions.

natron
11-13-2009, 03:17 PM
J Gastroenterol Hepatol. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Gastroen terol%20Hepatol.');) 2009 Jun;24(6):1045-50.
Open-labeled pilot study of cysteine-rich whey protein isolate supplementation for nonalcoholic steatohepatitis patients.

Chitapanarux T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Chitapanarux%20T%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Tienboon P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Tienboon%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Pojchamarnwiputh S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Pojchamarnwiputh%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Leelarungrayub D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Leelarungrayub%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Division of Gastrohepatology, Department of Medicine, Chiang Mai University, Thailand. thaitaned@yahoo.com
BACKGROUND AND AIMS: Glutathione (GSH) depletion contributes to liver injury and development of steatohepatitis. Undenatured cysteine-rich whey protein isolate has been clinically proven to raise GSH in several patient groups. The aim of this study was to evaluate the effect of oral supplementation with whey protein on patients with nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH). METHODS: In an open-labeled clinical trial, 38 patients (18 male, 20 female; mean age 48 +/- 14 years) with NASH confirmed by computed tomography measurements and liver biochemistries were given with a daily dose of 20 g whey protein isolate for 12 weeks. RESULTS: A significant reduction in alanine aminotransferase (ALT) (64 +/- 72 vs 46 +/- 36, P = 0.016) and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) (45 +/- 49 vs 33 +/- 18, P = 0.047) were observed. Plasma glutathione and total antioxidant capacity increased significantly at the end of study (53 +/- 11 vs 68 +/- 11, P < 0.05 and 1.26 +/- 0.10 vs 2.03 +/- 0.10, P < 0.05). Liver attenuation index improved from -13.4 +/- 11.1 to -9.7 +/- 13.1 (P = 0.048). Hepatic macrovesicular steatosis decreased significantly after 12 weeks of supplementation (33.82 +/- 12.82 vs 30.66 +/- 15.96, P = 0.046). Whey protein isolate was well tolerated. No serious adverse events were observed. CONCLUSIONS: The results indicate that oral supplementation of cysteine-rich whey protein isolate leads to improvements in liver biochemistries, increased plasma GSH, total antioxidant capacity and reduced hepatic macrovesicular steatosis in NASH patients. The results support the role of oxidative stress in the pathogenesis of this disease.

PMID: 19638084 [PubMed - in process]

natron
11-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Med Sci Sports Exerc. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Med%20Sci%20 Sports%20Exerc.');) 2005 Sep;37(9):1468-73.
Effects of cysteine donor supplementation on exercise-induced bronchoconstriction.

Baumann JM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Baumann%20JM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Rundell KW (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Rundell%20KW%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Evans TM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Evans%20TM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Levine AM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Levine%20AM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Human Performance Laboratory, Marywood University, Scranton, PA 18509, USA.
PURPOSE: Reactive oxygen/nitrogen species (ROS/RNS) in resident airway cells may be important in bronchoconstriction following exercise. Glutathione (GSH) is a major lung antioxidant and could influence pathological outcomes in individuals with exercise-induced bronchoconstriction (EIB). This study examined the effects of supplementation with undenatured whey protein (UWP) in subjects exhibiting airway narrowing following eucapnic voluntary hyperventilation (EVH), a surrogate challenge for diagnosis of EIB. UWP is a cysteine donor that augments GSH production. METHODS: In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study, 18 EIB-positive subjects (age: 25.2 +/- 9.01 yr; weight: 77.3 +/- 18.92 kg; height: 1.7 +/- 0.09 m) with post-EVH falls of > or =10% in FEV1 received 30 g UWP (TX) or casein placebo (PL)/d. Subjects performed 6-min EVH challenges before and after 4 and 8 wk of supplementation. Exhaled nitric oxide (eNO) was measured serially before spirometry and at 1-wk intervals. Spirometry was performed pre- and 5, 10, and 15 min postchallenge. RESULTS: Subjects exhibited significant mean improvement in postchallenge falls in FEV(1) from 0 wk (-22.6 +/- 12.22%) with TX at 4 (-18.9 +/- 12.89%, P < 0.05) and 8 wk (-16.98 +/- 11.61%, P < 0.05) and significant mean reduction in post-EVH peak falls in FEF(25-75) from 0 wk (-40.6 +/- 15.28%) with TX at 4 (-33.1 +/- 17.11%, P < 0.01) and 8 (-29.7 +/- 17.42%, P < 0.05) wk. No changes in FEV(1) or FEF(25-75) were observed in the PL group at any time point. Mean eNO for PL and TX groups at 0, 4, and 8 wk (46.8 +/- 31.33, 46.5 +/- 35.73, 49.3 +/- 37.12 vs 35.2 +/- 26.87, 29.1 +/- 17.26, 34.7 +/- 21.11 ppb, respectively) was not significantly different. CONCLUSIONS: UWP may augment pulmonary antioxidant capacity and be therapeutically beneficial in individuals exhibiting EIB, as postchallenge pulmonary function improved with supplementation. The lack of significant change in eNO suggests that the pulmonary function improvements from UWP supplementation are independent of eNO.

PMID: 16177596 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

natron
11-13-2009, 03:20 PM
J Med Food. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Med%20Fo od.');) 2005 Fall;8(3):337-42.
Effect of different hydrolysates of whey protein on hepatic glutathione content in mice.

Pacheco MT (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Pacheco%20MT%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Sgarbieri VC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Sgarbieri%20VC%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Food Chemistry and Applied Nutrition Center-Institute of Food Technology, Campinas, São Paulo, Brasil. mtb@ital.sp.gov.br
This study was designed to compare the effects of diets prepared with enzymatic hydrolysate of a whey protein concentrate (WPC) by pancreatin, protamex (Novo Nordisk, Bagsvaerd, Denmark), and alcalase proteases on the hepatic glutathione content in mice. The undenatured WPC was produced in a pilot plant by membrane technology (microfiltration/diafiltration) after separation of the casein clot through a conventional process. All three hydrolysates with 20% degree of hydrolysis showed an amino acid profile similar to WPC. Male A/J mice were fed on diets containing 20% WPC or hydrolysates. Commercial casein was used as a reference protein in the biological assays. The glutathione content was determined after liver extraction through high-performance capillary electrophoresis. WPC and its pancreatin and protamex hydrolysates showed higher ability to stimulate liver glutathione synthesis than alcalase hydrolysate. This difference was probably related to an amino acid sequence in the peptides that were formed during hydrolysis of whey proteins. Commercial casein and WPC alcalase hydrolysate produced lower stimulation of liver glutathione synthesis (7.09 and 5.66 micromol/g of wet weight) compared with WPC and pancreatin and protamex hydrolysates (8.72, 8.71, and 8.45 micromol/g of wet weight, respectively). These results indicate that the hydrolysates obtained by treatment with pancreatin and protamex are good sources of peptides with activity to stimulate glutathione synthesis.

PMID: 16176144 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

natron
11-13-2009, 03:21 PM
Clin Invest Med. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Clin%20Inves t%20Med.');) 1993 Jun;16(3):204-9.
Whey proteins as a food supplement in HIV-seropositive individuals.

Bounous G (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Bounous%20G%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Baruchel S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Baruchel%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Falutz J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Falutz%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Gold P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Gold%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Surgery, Montreal General Hospital, Quebec.
On the basis of numerous animal experiments, a pilot study was undertaken to evaluate the effect of undenatured, biologically active, dietary whey protein in 3 HIV-seropositive individuals over a period of 3 months. Whey protein concentrate was prepared so that the most thermosensitive proteins, such as serum albumin which contains 6 glutamylcysteine groups, would be in undenatured form. Whey protein powder dissolved in a drink of the patient's choice was drunk cold in quantities that were increased progressively from 8.4 to 39.2 g per day. Patients took whey proteins without adverse side effects. In the 3 patients whose body weight had been stable in the preceding 2 months, weight gain increased progressively between 2 and 7 kg, with 2 of the patients reaching ideal body weight. Serum proteins, including albumin, remained unchanged and within normal range, indicating that protein replenishment per se was not likely the cause of increased body weight. The glutathione content of the blood mononuclear cells was, as expected, below normal values in all patients at the beginning of the study. Over the 3-month period, glutathione levels increased in all 3 cases. In conclusion, these preliminary data indicate that, in patients who maintain an adequate total caloric intake, the addition of "bioactive" whey protein concentrate as a significant portion of total protein intake increases body weight and shows elevation of glutathione (GSH) content of mononuclear cells toward normal levels. This pilot study will serve as a basis for a much larger clinical trial.

PMID: 8365048 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

natron
11-13-2009, 03:22 PM
Clin Invest Med. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Clin%20Inves t%20Med.');) 1991 Aug;14(4):296-309.
The biological activity of undenatured dietary whey proteins: role of glutathione.

Bounous G (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Bounous%20G%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Gold P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Gold%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Surgery, Montreal General Hospital Research Institute, Quebec.
This study compared the effects of different sources of whey protein concentrate (20 g/100 g diet) and of casein on the spleen, liver, and heart glutathione content of C3H/HeJ mice, and on the immune response of their spleen cells to sheep red blood cells. Body weight curves were similar in all dietary groups. Our data indicate that the humoral immune response is highest in mice fed a dietary whey protein concentrate exhibiting the highest solubility (undenatured conformation) and a greater relative concentration of the thermolabile bovine serum albumin and immunoglobulins. In addition, the mice fed this type of whey protein concentrate exhibit higher levels of tissue glutathione. The presence in the serum albumin fraction of glutamylcysteine groups (rare in food protein) and the specific intramolecular bond as related to the undenatured conformation of the molecule are considered to be key factors in the glutathione-promoting activity of the protein mixture.

PMID: 1782728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1782728?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=10#)

Dr Pangloss
11-13-2009, 05:26 PM
good stuff natron. At first i was skeptical of the value. I have a question, however.

Cant you supplement with glutathione instead? Glutathione is basically a polypeptide with repeated cysteines (which get oxydized with exessive heat).

natron
11-13-2009, 07:47 PM
good stuff natron. At first i was skeptical of the value. I have a question, however.

Cant you supplement with glutathione instead? Glutathione is basically a polypeptide with repeated cysteines (which get oxydized with exessive heat).

Unfortunately you can't. You can buy reduced glutathione, but it won't reach the cells or stimulate glutathione synthesis. Oral glutathione products a very poor at best at raising cellular levels. Garlic extract, milk thistle can raise levels minutely, but it is hardly beneficial. NAC is also a bust, however injectible NAC has been used to treat acetaminophen overdoses, and is proven to raise intracellular glutathione levels, but that doesn't really help bodybuilders or athletes as it's not readily available.

I'll unput more on this as we go along, especially in terms of avoiding sickness, over training etc.

The events that really led me to undenatured protein was dealing with terminally ill cancer patients. I've only done this 3-4 times, however, these people are still living almost 6 years later. So, I am quite fascinated with this supplement, and rightfully so. Look at all the petty disease, flu etc. Simply switching to an undenatured whey protein can dramatically increase your health and well being, while increasing recovery and building muscle! lol

Anyhow,

and to everyone else who checks this out, I have no affiliation with any supplement company at all, just to get that out of the way!

natron
11-13-2009, 08:07 PM
Here is a link to an excellent product, with studies and descriptions of how lactoferin (from undenatured whey), will stimulate the immune system and has powerful anti-cancer effects. This product is made by AOR, and they are definately not cheap, but since gaining my R.N.C.P. degree, they make some of the best supplements I've ever seen. Much more like a pharmaceutical company rather than a company just throwing around compounds, but anyhow, take a look, and the studies are in there as well.

http://www.aor.ca/html/products.php?id=124

natron
11-13-2009, 08:16 PM
for Dr. P

NAC- oral n-acetyl cysteine is rather ineffective at raising intracellular glutathione levels because it's bioavailability is very low. This is a by product of first pass motabolism through the liver which basically cleaves the molecules into smaller molocules to create different compounds. Not only that, but the half life of oral NAC is somewhere around 1 hour, which would make it a pain in the ass to see any benefits from.

oral glutathione basically suffers the same fate as NAC, it's low bioavailability just doesn't allow an effective dose to reach cells.

undenatured protein is more effective because it supplies the donors allowing the body to make glutathione on it's own, thus depleted stores within the body are topped up, and allowed to maintain normal levels, especially in those who are sick, suffering from illness or disease, or those who are physically taxing their bodies ie athletes/bodybuilders.

natron
11-13-2009, 08:29 PM
some other applications for increasing glutathione..

• Relief from the symptoms of chronic bronchitis.
• Heavy metal chelation.
• Precursor to glutathione.
• Anti-mucus in the lungs.
• Acetaminophen overdose.
• AIDS complications.
• Anti-HIV activity in-vitro.
• Cell-protective effect when dapsone (which is cytotoxic) is used to treat Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) in AIDS.
• Liver detoxification

There are also some interesting reads I'm looking for in regards to GSH improving mental conditions involving glutamate activity. So, it could potentially help with schizophrenia, ADD, and ADHD (although fish oils are bang on for these applications).

I've also seen elimination of allergies through undenatured whey supplementation as well.

natron
11-13-2009, 08:31 PM
J Cyst Fibros. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Cyst%20F ibros.');) 2003 Dec;2(4):195-8.
Improved glutathione status in young adult patients with cystic fibrosis supplemented with whey protein.

Grey V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Grey%20V%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Mohammed SR (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Mohammed%20SR%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Smountas AA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Smountas%20AA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Bahlool R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Bahlool%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Lands LC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Lands%20LC%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
The Department of Pathology and Molecular Medicine, McMaster Division, Hamilton Health Sciences, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Erratum in:


J Cyst Fibros. 2004 Mar;3(1):62.

BACKGROUND: The lung disease of cystic fibrosis is associated with a chronic inflammatory reaction and an over abundance of oxidants relative to antioxidants. Glutathione functions as a major frontline defense against the build-up of oxidants in the lung. This increased demand for glutathione (GSH) in cystic fibrosis may be limiting if nutritional status is compromised. We sought to increase glutathione levels in stable patients with cystic fibrosis by supplementation with a whey-based protein. METHODS: Twenty-one patients who were in stable condition were randomly assigned to take a whey protein isolate (Immunocal, 10 g twice a day) or casein placebo for 3 months. Peripheral lymphocyte GSH was used as a marker of lung GSH. Values were compared with nutritional status and lung parameters. RESULTS: At baseline there were no significant differences in age, height, weight, percent ideal body weight or percent body fat. Lymphocyte GSH was similar in the two groups. After supplementation, we observed a 46.6% increase from baseline (P < 0.05) in the lymphocyte GSH levels in the supplemented group. No other changes were observed. CONCLUSION: The results show that dietary supplementation with a whey-based product can increase glutathione levels in cystic fibrosis. This nutritional approach may be useful in maintaining optimal levels of GSH and counteract the deleterious effects of oxidative stress in the lung in cystic fibrosis. Copyright 2003 European Cystic Fibrosis Society

PMID: 15463873 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

natron
11-13-2009, 08:32 PM
Nutr Cancer. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Nutr%20Cance r.');) 2000;38(2):200-8.
Enchancing effect of patented whey protein isolate (Immunocal) on cytotoxicity of an anticancer drug.

Tsai WY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Tsai%20WY%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Chang WH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Chang%20WH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Chen CH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Chen%20CH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Lu FJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Lu%20FJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine National Taiwan University, Taipei, ROC.
To determine the enhancing effect of a whey protein isolate on the cytotoxicity of a potential anticancer drug, baicalein, the human hepatoma cell line Hep G2 was assigned to grow in different media for four days, and cell growth and apoptosis were investigated. The control group was grown in normal medium; the other three groups were grown in whey protein isolate (Immunocal) medium, baicalein medium, and a combination of Immunocal and baicalein. As indicated by 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide assay, survival rate was significantly lower in cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal than in cells grown in baicalein alone. In contrast, there was no significant difference in survival rate of the cells grown in Immunocal. In the investigation of apoptosis, cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal showed a higher phosphatidylserine exposure, lower mitochondrial transmembrane potential, and nearly 13 times more cells undergoing apoptosis than cells grown in baicalein alone. We also demonstrated that Immunocal reduced glutathione (GSH) in Hep G2 cells by 20-40% and regulated the elevation of GSH, which was in response to baicalein. In conclusion, Immunocal seemed to enhance the cytotoxicity of baicalein by inducing more apoptosis; this increase in apoptotic cells may be associated with the depletion of GSH in Hep G2 cells. This is the first study to demonstrate, in vitro, that Immunocal may function as an adjuvant in cancer treatments.

PMID: 11525598 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

natron
11-13-2009, 08:33 PM
J Med. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Med.');) 2000;31(5-6):283-302.
Nutritional therapy of chronic hepatitis by whey protein (non-heated).

Watanabe A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Watanabe%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Okada K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Okada%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Shimizu Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Shimizu%20Y%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Wakabayashi H (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Wakabayashi%20H%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Higuchi K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Higuchi%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Niiya K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Niiya%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kuwabara Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kuwabara%20Y%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Yasuyama T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Yasuyama%20T%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Ito H (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Ito%20H%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Tsukishiro T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Tsukishiro%20T%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kondoh Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kondoh%20Y%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Emi N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Emi%20N%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kohri H (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kohri%20H%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Third Department of Internal Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, Toyama, Japan.
In an open study the clinical efficacy of milk serum (whey) protein (Immunocal; cysteine content: 7.6-fold higher than that of casein) isolated from fresh milk and purified without heating was evaluated in 25 patients with chronic hepatitis B or C. Immunocal (12 g as protein) food (mousse) was given twice a day, in the morning and evening, for 12 weeks (test period). Casein (12 g as protein) food (mousse) was similarly given for two weeks prior to the start of the supplement with Immunocal food (induction period) and for four weeks after the end of the supplement with Immunocal food (follow-up period). Serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) activity was reduced, and plasma glutathione (GSH) levels increased in six and five of eight patients with chronic hepatitis B, respectively, 12 weeks after the start of the supplement with Immunocal food. Serum lipid peroxide levels significantly decreased, and interleukin (IL)-2 levels and natural killer (NK) activity significantly increased. However, there were no significant Immunocal-related changes in 17 patients with chronic hepatitis C. These findings suggest that the long-term supplement with Immunocal alone may be effective for improving liver dysfunctions in patients with chronic hepatitis B.

natron
11-13-2009, 08:35 PM
J Appl Physiol. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Appl%20P hysiol.');) 1999 Oct;87(4):1381-5.
Effect of supplementation with a cysteine donor on muscular performance.

Lands LC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Lands%20LC%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Grey VL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Grey%20VL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Smountas AA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Smountas%20AA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Division of Respiratory Medicine, McGill University Health Centre-Montreal Children's Hospital, Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3H 1P3. larry.lands@muhc.mcgill.ca
Erratum in:


J Appl Physiol 2000 Jan;88(1):followi.

Oxidative stress contributes to muscular fatigue. GSH is the major intracellular antioxidant, the biosynthesis of which is dependent on cysteine availability. We hypothesized that supplementation with a whey-based cysteine donor [Immunocal (HMS90)] designed to augment intracellular GSH would enhance performance. Twenty healthy young adults (10 men, 10 women) were studied presupplementation and 3 mo postsupplementation with either Immunocal (20 g/day) or casein placebo. Muscular performance was assessed by whole leg isokinetic cycle testing, measuring peak power and 30-s work capacity. Lymphocyte GSH was used as a marker of tissue GSH. There were no baseline differences (age, ht, wt, %ideal wt, peak power, 30-s work capacity). Follow-up data on 18 subjects (9 Immunocal, 9 placebo) were analyzed. Both peak power [13 +/- 3.5 (SE) %, P < 0.02] and 30-s work capacity (13 +/- 3.7%, P < 0.03) increased significantly in the Immunocal group, with no change (2 +/- 9.0 and 1 +/- 9.3%) in the placebo group. Lymphocyte GSH also increased significantly in the Immunocal group (35.5 +/- 11.04%, P < 0.02), with no change in the placebo group (-0.9 +/- 9.6%). This is the first study to demonstrate that prolonged supplementation with a product designed to augment antioxidant defenses resulted in improved volitional performance.

Dr Pangloss
11-14-2009, 09:19 AM
for Dr. P

NAC- oral n-acetyl cysteine is rather ineffective at raising intracellular glutathione levels because it's bioavailability is very low. This is a by product of first pass motabolism through the liver which basically cleaves the molecules into smaller molocules to create different compounds. Not only that, but the half life of oral NAC is somewhere around 1 hour, which would make it a pain in the ass to see any benefits from.

oral glutathione basically suffers the same fate as NAC, it's low bioavailability just doesn't allow an effective dose to reach cells.

undenatured protein is more effective because it supplies the donors allowing the body to make glutathione on it's own, thus depleted stores within the body are topped up, and allowed to maintain normal levels, especially in those who are sick, suffering from illness or disease, or those who are physically taxing their bodies ie athletes/bodybuilders.


what about whey isolate increases the bioavailability of glutathione? Do you know?

natron
11-14-2009, 01:16 PM
what about whey isolate increases the bioavailability of glutathione? Do you know?

It raises intracellular glutathione levels by providing the building blocks of glutathione production.

It contains no glutathione per say, I guess you could also call it a precurser to glutathione in a sense.

It also takes a longer time to be process, allowing it to make it further than the stomach and allow adequate time to produce glutathione, which allows for a higher bioavailability

Another thing about NAC, it potentially could be effective at raising intracellular glutathione if a decent time released product was used in rather large amounts. I quoted half life at 1 hour, I'm mistaken, it's more like 2-2.5 hours. Still the dose would have to be very high, and the price would be an issue.

natron
11-14-2009, 01:31 PM
The free amino acid cysteine does not represent an ideal delivery system to the cell. It is potentially toxic and is spontaneously catabolized in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma. Conversely, cysteine absorbed during digestion as cystine (two cysteine molecules linked by a disulfide bond) in the gastrointestinal tract is more stable than the free amino acid cysteine. The disulfide bond is pepsin and trypsin-resistant, but may be split by heat, low pH, and mechanical stress. Cystine travels safely through the GI tract and blood plasma and is promptly reduced to the two cysteine molecules upon cell entry.

Dr Pangloss
11-14-2009, 01:56 PM
whey protein must contain some polypeptides with large quantities of cysteine.

natron
11-14-2009, 02:21 PM
whey protein must contain some polypeptides with large quantities of cysteine.

undenatured whey contains a large dose of cycteine, but... the microfractions contain cystine. In serum albumin there are 17 cystine residues and 6 glutamylcystine (Glu-Cys) dipeptides; in lactoferrin, 17 cystine residues and 4 GluCys dipeptides; and in alpha-lactalbumin, 4 cystine residues. In particular, the Glu-Cys dipeptides very readily enter the cell to be synthesized into GSH.

TPT
11-14-2009, 02:46 PM
undenatured whey contains a large dose of cycteine, but... the microfractions contain cystine. In serum albumin there are 17 cystine residues and 6 glutamylcystine (Glu-Cys) dipeptides; in lactoferrin, 17 cystine residues and 4 GluCys dipeptides; and in alpha-lactalbumin, 4 cystine residues. In particular, the Glu-Cys dipeptides very readily enter the cell to be synthesized into GSH.


good stuff, natron.

but, immunocol whey is damn expensive! : )

and i doubt bodybuilders have low levels of glutathione because of all the protein ingested.

maybe they should be tested.

TPT
11-14-2009, 02:51 PM
good stuff, natron.

but, immunocol whey is damn expensive! : )

and i doubt bodybuilders have low levels of glutathione because of all the protein ingested.

maybe they should be tested.



meaning is it even necessary when we are fine with wheys with reasonable price points?

nevermind the bodybuilders with hiv/aids. : )

natron
11-14-2009, 03:09 PM
good stuff, natron.

but, immunocol whey is damn expensive! : )

and i doubt bodybuilders have low levels of glutathione because of all the protein ingested.

maybe they should be tested.


Yeah, Immonocal is, but remember they have paid for numerous clinical studies, and we know that gets quite expensive.

I would disagree with the bodybuilders comment though. Glutathione can be heavely depleted by intense physical activity, which we apply on a daily basis, whether it be lifting/cardio/competing.

Remember though, It's not exclusive to protein intake. It's mostly due in part to the cysteine content, but more importantly, the cystine contained in the microfractions, which IS NOT present in the diet, no matter how much protein you consume. These microfractions are exclusive to undenatured whey(concnetrate/isolate) and bovine syrum as far as I know.

Also, "our" protein intake tends to be denatured via heat or processing, so even if it was contained in fish, beef or another protein source, it still would serve zero biological activity because of the microfractions being destroyed in the process.

Now, one thing I do not have the answer too, is how much can we supplement with? Does glutathione raise depending on dose? Is it regulated at some point?(i'm assuming it does) but if so, what happens when we take a larger dose than the 10-20 grams/day that is present in almost all the studies?

In other words, what is the optimal dose? I truly have no idea? All I can say is I haven't gotten sick or suffered much illness or ailment for years at about 80 grams per day. The only time I've gotten sick is when I have went 3-4 weeks without.

natron
11-14-2009, 03:13 PM
I should also point out that even though Immunocal has conducted some of these studies, the results have been duplicated in numerous independent studies.

natron
11-14-2009, 03:18 PM
meaning is it even necessary when we are fine with wheys with reasonable price points?

nevermind the bodybuilders with hiv/aids. : )

Well, I do not use Immunocal. I use any undenatured whey isolate, there are tons on the market, as long as they are trustworthy companies that state the protein is undenatured, there is hardly a difference. It should also have the microfraction amounts as well, and the higher the better.

I have used about 20 different products, but my two favorites are InterActive whey isolate, I get 5lbs, for about $60, and Natures Best whey isolate, which is about $10 more expensive for the same amount.

I'm assuming alot of bodybuilders are using undenatured whey without having any clue of the huge benenfits from doing so? lol

natron
11-14-2009, 03:25 PM
Immunocal label

Supplement Facts



Serving Size: 1 Pouch (10 g)
Servings Per Container: 30


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value* Total Calories 40 - Total Carbohydrate 0 g 0% Total Fat 0 g 0% Protein 9 g 18% Calcium 60 mg 6% Sodium 20 mg 1%
Not a significant source of calories from fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, dietary fiber, sugars, vitamin A, vitamin C, and iron.
* % Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.
Ingredient:
Whey protein isolate (cow's milk) ... 10 g



InterActive Nutritions label amounts (although not directly from the label)

WHEY PROTEIN FRACTIONS
Beta-Lactoglobulin (BLG) - this is the largest protein fraction in whey and coupled with high levels of BCAA and Glutamyl Cycteine, which is important for muscle growth. This is the most abundant fraction in bovine milk yet it is naturally not found in human milk at all. Allergic reactions to it are common, the reason the infant formula market is trying to find an alpha-lactalbumin predominant formula. Marketed as being high in BCAAs, yet it has no further advantages over alpha-lactalbumin.
Alpha-Lactalbumin (ALA) - is a protein fraction that is easily digested by the body and often used in the baby food market. However this type of protein fraction has been shown to be highly effective at reducing stress induced Cortisol. Unfortunately it is usually low in most bovine dairy products.
Proteose-Peptone - High in glycomacropeptides, the percentage content of which has become a major marketing tool for some whey protein formulas. GMP's contain virtually all the sialic acid found in milk, a substance known to eliminate viruses from the system by binding to them. Including whey proteins in the diet that are high in sialic acid has been demonstrated to reduce the chances of catching influenza. GMP's can also effect modulation of digestion via the release of the hormone cholecystokinin (CCK) after protein or fat ingestion. They are also known to promote the growth of friendly bacteria (probiotics) in the large intestines and to aid passage and absorption of some bioactive fractions.
Glycomacropeptides (GMP) - is a protein fraction that cause the release of Cholecystokinin (CCK). CCK is a hormone that tells your brain that you're full and therefore reduces appetite and prevents excessive eating and obesity.
Immunoglobulins (IgG) - these important protein fractions strengthen your immune system, keeping you free from illness, colds and flu's that the pressures of hard training and work can cause.
Bovine Serum Albumin (BSA) - this protein fraction, contained in small amounts, contain Glutamyl-Cycteine which is a precursor to Glutathione - your body's most important antioxidant, possibly also possessing tumor prevention properties.
Growth Factors - contained within the fat globule membrane, they are believed to promote growth and result in elevation of plasma IGF (insulin like growth factor).
Lactoperoxidase - again, anotherimmuno-supportive fraction.
Lactoferrin - could be the most important fraction of all. Biotechnology companies are doing a lot of work with this fraction, of particular interest are it's post operative tissue regeneration and antibacterialproperties. Known to promaote healthy GI function, it is also a potentially effective anti oxidant. Lactoferrin has been shown to stimulate the immune defense system, to alter the effects of immune modulators and to very effectively bind and transport iron. Pharaceutical preparations containing this material are currently being explored.
IsoWhey Average Whey Protein Isolate
ALA 11.3% - 14.5% 8.3% - 22.6%
BLA 37.9% - 49.0% 38.9% - 73.0%
IgG 5.0% - 7.9% 1.0% - 3.5%
BSA 1.1% - 3.0% 0.0% - 1.8%
Lactoferrin 1.3% - 1.8% 0.0% - 1.8%
GMP's 0.0% - 11.0% 0.0% - 1.0%

TPT
11-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Yeah, Immonocal is, but remember they have paid for numerous clinical studies, and we know that gets quite expensive.

I would disagree with the bodybuilders comment though. Glutathione can be heavely depleted by intense physical activity, which we apply on a daily basis, whether it be lifting/cardio/competing.

Remember though, It's not exclusive to protein intake. It's mostly due in part to the cysteine content, but more importantly, the cystine contained in the microfractions, which IS NOT present in the diet, no matter how much protein you consume. These microfractions are exclusive to undenatured whey(concnetrate/isolate) and bovine syrum as far as I know.

Also, "our" protein intake tends to be denatured via heat or processing, so even if it was contained in fish, beef or another protein source, it still would serve zero biological activity because of the microfractions being destroyed in the process.

Now, one thing I do not have the answer too, is how much can we supplement with? Does glutathione raise depending on dose? Is it regulated at some point?(i'm assuming it does) but if so, what happens when we take a larger dose than the 10-20 grams/day that is present in almost all the studies?

In other words, what is the optimal dose? I truly have no idea? All I can say is I haven't gotten sick or suffered much illness or ailment for years at about 80 grams per day. The only time I've gotten sick is when I have went 3-4 weeks without.


im still suspicious of reduced levels of glutathione in normal humans including bodybuilders. there are large difference between normals who ingest excessively large amounts of aminos and those with immunosuppresive or degenerative diseases.

might testing for glutathione levels be recommended?

im curious of the dosage effects as well. we dont know how much increases one to "normal" or optimal levels

natron
11-14-2009, 03:55 PM
im still suspicious of reduced levels of glutathione in normal humans including bodybuilders. there are large difference between normals who ingest excessively large amounts of aminos and those with immunosuppresive or degenerative diseases.

might testing for glutathione levels be recommended?

im curious of the dosage effects as well. we dont know how much increases one to "normal" or optimal levels

Well, I've seen the effects in runners and bodybuilders first hand, and they benefited from undenatured whey in terms of reduced illness, less DOMS (although already supplementing with whey concentrate), however that doesn't "prove" anything really. The only cases I've dealt with where it has played a definite role was the few cases of cancer I worked with. From "terminally ill", to in remission is a huge success for sure.

Anyhow, If we could test for glutathione levels in a trained athlete, that would be fuckin awesome, for lack of a better scientific term.

Do you have the ability to do so?

I'd be willing to bet glutathione levels in trained athletes would be declined, or not at optimal levels. But another question I guess would once again be, What are optimal levels? I 'll have to search for an answer on that. But, the lifestyle we live nowadys, with increased physical and mental stress, poor diet and unantural foods, medications, drug use and alcohol consumption, enviromental toxins, food additives that are excito toxins etc, I'd be betting on a lot of individuals that are not at optimal levels. And thus, assuming I'm correct, alot of individuals could benefit from simple supplementation, and possibly reap benefits of downstream effects, such as weening off antidepressants etc., with added health and the positive effects from tryptophan etc.

At this point, I'm leading towards this possibly being the most important supplement for anyone looking to lead a healthy life, even ahead of fish oils, which I'm a HUGE fan of.

natron
11-14-2009, 04:05 PM
possible contributors to reduced glutathione within the cell

1) Acidic lifestyle and diet
2) Air and Water pollution
3) Prescription and recreational drugs
4) Ultraviolet and Radiation from cells phones, computers, electrical cars,
power lines, hair dryers, etc.
5) Emotional and physical stress
6) Injury, trauma or burns
7) Heavy metals
8) Cigarette smoke
9) Household chemicals
10) Acetaminophen poisoning
11) Exhaust from motor vehicles
12) Septic shock

natron
11-14-2009, 04:16 PM
PT,

I've also read a study that concluded a reduction in cellular glutathione of 20%(I believe) for upwards of 20 hours, I'll see If I can find the study.

and still absolutely no baseline glutathione levels considered optimal???

TPT
11-14-2009, 04:40 PM
PT,

I've also read a study that concluded a reduction in cellular glutathione of 20%(I believe) for upwards of 20 hours, I'll see If I can find the study.

and still absolutely no baseline glutathione levels considered optimal???


interesting.

tests are available. blood, saliva, and other more indirect measures such as urine.

natron
11-14-2009, 04:45 PM
I was wrong about the percentage, but here is the study. Hardly elaborate, but...

Scand J Med Sci Sports. (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:AL_get%28this,%20%27jour%27,%20%27Scand%20J%2 0Med%20Sci%20Sports.%27%29;) 2009 Aug 23. [Epub ahead of print]
Plasma antioxidant responses and oxidative stress following a soccer game in elite female players.

Andersson H (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Andersson%20H%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Karlsen A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Karlsen%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Blomhoff R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Blomhoff%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Raastad T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Raastad%20T%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kadi F (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kadi%20F%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
School of Health and Medical Sciences, Orebro University, Orebro, Sweden.
We aimed to investigate markers of oxidative stress and levels of endogenous and dietary antioxidants in 16 elite female soccer players in response to a 90-min game (average intensity 82+/-3% HRpeak). Blood samples were taken before, immediately and 21 h after the game. Plasma-oxidized glutathione, the ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione (GSH:GSSG) and lipid peroxidation measured by d-ROMs were used as markers of oxidative stress. Plasma endogenous [uric acid, total glutathione (TGSH)] and dietary antioxidants (alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid, total carotenoids and polyphenols) were analyzed using liquid chromatography and the Folin-Ciocalteu method. Exercise induced an acute increase (P<0.05) in GSSG, uric acid, TGSH, alpha-tocopherol, and ascorbic acid. In parallel, the GSH:GSSG ratio and polyphenols decreased (P<0.05). GSSG, GSH:GSSG ratio, uric acid, TGSH, and ascorbic acid returned to baseline at 21 h, while polyphenols and alpha-tocopherol remained altered. Total carotenoids increased above baseline only at 21 h (P<0.05). Lipid peroxidation, measured by d-ROMs, remained unchanged throughout the study. Thus, intermittent exercise in well-trained female athletes induces a transient increase in GSSG and a decrease in the GSH:GSSG ratio, which is effectively balanced by the recruitment of both endogenous and dietary antioxidants, resulting in the absence of lipid peroxidation measured by d-ROMs.

PMID: 19706000 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


I'd be very interested in testing levels, would you be able to accomplish this? Or do you have links to testing methods for purchase?


However, one would have to avoid supplemental protein for a period of time. Measure baseline, maybe measure with diet alone as well, then with whey concentrate(denatured), then undenatured protein. It would take awhile, but I'd be willing to do so.

natron
11-17-2009, 11:39 AM
Bump.

Glutathione testing coming up!!!

heavyiron
11-22-2009, 11:40 AM
Yeah, Immonocal is, but remember they have paid for numerous clinical studies, and we know that gets quite expensive.

I would disagree with the bodybuilders comment though. Glutathione can be heavely depleted by intense physical activity, which we apply on a daily basis, whether it be lifting/cardio/competing.

Remember though, It's not exclusive to protein intake. It's mostly due in part to the cysteine content, but more importantly, the cystine contained in the microfractions, which IS NOT present in the diet, no matter how much protein you consume. These microfractions are exclusive to undenatured whey(concnetrate/isolate) and bovine syrum as far as I know.

Also, "our" protein intake tends to be denatured via heat or processing, so even if it was contained in fish, beef or another protein source, it still would serve zero biological activity because of the microfractions being destroyed in the process.

Now, one thing I do not have the answer too, is how much can we supplement with? Does glutathione raise depending on dose? Is it regulated at some point?(i'm assuming it does) but if so, what happens when we take a larger dose than the 10-20 grams/day that is present in almost all the studies?

In other words, what is the optimal dose? I truly have no idea? All I can say is I haven't gotten sick or suffered much illness or ailment for years at about 80 grams per day. The only time I've gotten sick is when I have went 3-4 weeks without.
OK, if the studies use 20 grams daily then just use 20 grams of the expensive Immonocal stuff daily and then get your other protein from less expensive sources. Seems like a no brainer for the guy following the science who is on a budget.

natron
11-22-2009, 12:26 PM
OK, if the studies use 20 grams daily then just use 20 grams of the expensive Immonocal stuff daily and then get your other protein from less expensive sources. Seems like a no brainer for the guy following the science who is on a budget.

Nope, you dont need the Immunocal product.

Just your average undenatured whey protein isolate.

Thats all Heaviron, and substitute it as your source of supplemental protein.

I use about 4 scoops per day with great results, but I'm going to be testing actual GSH pretty soon here.

I want to find out the optimal dosages, so I have to test them.

figurebre
11-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Thats a lot of science. So sum it up for me, how BIG of a difference will it TRULY make? a noticeable difference?

natron
11-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Thats a lot of science. So sum it up for me, how BIG of a difference will it TRULY make? a noticeable difference?

basically, it's like this

undenatured whey isolate=increased GSH+microfractions=increased immune response.

Basically it's a super food so to speak.

Increased recovery, less illness, less chance disease or ailments,

This can cure or treat anything from asthma to AIDS to cancer

and yes, you'll notice the recovery and energy increase within a few days, then it progressively gets more pronounced

Plus it builds muscle and cuts fat.

figurebre
11-22-2009, 02:06 PM
what if i dont have asthma, aids or cancer?
and I havent been sick all year?
and I have no injuries :)
not being a smart ass...heh

natron
11-22-2009, 02:08 PM
what if i dont have asthma, aids or cancer?
and I havent been sick all year?
and I have no injuries :)
not being a smart ass...heh

The beauty of supplementing when your healthy is you'll remain healthy. It preventative.

You don't want to start when your diagnost with cancer.

smart ass, haha

natron
11-22-2009, 02:10 PM
and in your situation Bre, I don't think your as healthy as you feel.

Little problems now suggest something is wrong, whether you feel it or not is not the point.

When I first started I thought I was uber healthy too, turns out I ended up feeling MUCH better after using whey isolate

FreakPeak
12-14-2009, 06:47 AM
Great work thanks Natron. Was wondering if you knew how Alpha Lipoic acid and MSM compares with undenatured whey regarding raising Glutathione? I am interested from a chelation point of view...

natron
12-14-2009, 11:12 AM
In terms of raising intracellular GSH, it is IMO that glutathione will reach a certain level and then maintain that level, it will not continually climb once it reaches that certain level. With that said, undenatured whey isolate does this quickly and efficiently, so other supplements should not be needed for this purpose.

Both ALA and MSM are good supplements in their own right, however I do not personally use them.

ALA has been shown to be quite ineffective in this regards, and also seems to be hit or miss.

I am not aware of any studies showing increased GSH from MSM? However though, I have never really looked? Perhaps you have studies???

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Awesome info!

couple quick questions if you would not mind:

1) are all whey isolates undenatured? I see a ton of different types:
cold filtration
CFM
Ion exchange
microfiltered

are they all equal in this undenatured regard?3

2) would undenatured Micellar Casein have these same benefits or only whey isolates?

Awesome info, thanks!

natron
12-14-2009, 12:45 PM
Awesome info!

couple quick questions if you would not mind:

1) are all whey isolates undenatured? I see a ton of different types:
cold filtration
CFM
Ion exchange
microfiltered

are they all equal in this undenatured regard?3

2) would undenatured Micellar Casein have these same benefits or only whey isolates?

Awesome info, thanks!

Not all whey is undenatured, it must be cold filtered, as subject to heat causes denaturization.

Most of the studies show an undenatured cold microfiltered version.

I don't believe casein has the same benefits, but it's tough to say. For the most part there are three categories here that provide the benefits

1. the glycine/cysteine combination for GSH
2.the immune stimulation from microfractions
3. the health and medical benefits of amino acid content.

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 01:04 PM
Not all whey is undenatured, it must be cold filtered, as subject to heat causes denaturization.

Most of the studies show an undenatured cold microfiltered version.

I don't believe casein has the same benefits, but it's tough to say. For the most part there are three categories here that provide the benefits

1. the glycine/cysteine combination for GSH
2.the immune stimulation from microfractions
3. the health and medical benefits of amino acid content.

Awesome, thanks so much!

I know you said you like Natures Best, I have some of that and it says microfiltered, so I am assuming microfiltered is in fact cold filtered?

natron
12-14-2009, 01:37 PM
Awesome, thanks so much!

I know you said you like Natures Best, I have some of that and it says microfiltered, so I am assuming microfiltered is in fact cold filtered?

Natures best isolate is an excellent product, as is Interactive Nutritions version.

natron
12-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Here is the Interactive version http://www.interactivenutrition.com/products/isowhey.php

this I prefer, but Natures best is still an undenatured whey. That is the most important thing. Also, alot of companies these days will list it a undenatured on the label.

Also, you should be able to dive the protein content by the serving size to determine quality as well, a good product will yield at least 87% whey isolate, and then look and compare products to get the highest microfraction content

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 01:49 PM
Here is the Interactive version http://www.interactivenutrition.com/products/isowhey.php

this I prefer, but Natures best is still an undenatured whey. That is the most important thing. Also, alot of companies these days will list it a undenatured on the label.

Also, you should be able to dive the protein content by the serving size to determine quality as well, a good product will yield at least 87% whey isolate, and then look and compare products to get the highest microfraction content

Where can you buy interactive version? I cant seem to find it anywhere I normally buy, and did not see any way to buy on the site itself.

what do you think of true proteins cold filtered whey iso?

natron
12-14-2009, 02:48 PM
It is very good as well, however I would like if they stated the percentages of microfractions, as this is very important as well

natron
12-14-2009, 02:54 PM
Awesome info!

couple quick questions if you would not mind:

1) are all whey isolates undenatured? I see a ton of different types:
cold filtration
CFM
Ion exchange
microfiltered

are they all equal in this undenatured regard?3

2) would undenatured Micellar Casein have these same benefits or only whey isolates?

Awesome info, thanks!

Toxicol Ind Health. (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:AL_get%28this,%20%27jour%27,%20%27Toxicol%20I nd%20Health.%27%29;) 2009 May-Jun;25(4-5):325-8.
Whey proteins influence hepatic glutathione after CCl4 intoxication.

Balbis E (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Balbis%20E%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Patriarca S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Patriarca%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Furfaro AL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Furfaro%20AL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Millanta S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Millanta%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Sukkar SG (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Sukkar%20SG%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Marinari UM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Marinari%20UM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Pronzato MA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Pronzato%20MA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Cottalasso D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Cottalasso%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Traverso N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Traverso%20N%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Experimental Medicine, Section of General Pathology, University of Genova, Genova, Italy.
Whey proteins (WP) are known to contain more cysteine than casein (CAS), so it is suggested that they should ameliorate the oxidative equilibrium in the organisms. To evaluate the influence of a WP-based diet on liver glutathione (GSH) content, male Sprague-Dawley rats were fed for 3 weeks a balanced liquid diet containing either WP or CAS as main source of protein. Liver GSH content was evaluated at the end of the treatment by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), both in basal conditions and after oxidative stress induced by CCl4 acute intoxication. In basal conditions, WP diet significantly increased hepatic GSH in comparison to CAS diet. After CCl4 intoxication, hepatic GSH was negligibly increased in CAS group, while its increase was much more marked in WP group, so that the difference between the two diets was significant; this suggests that WP provided rats with better ability to increase their GSH synthesis in case of need.

PMID: 19651804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 02:59 PM
Toxicol Ind Health. (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:AL_get%28this,%20%27jour%27,%20%27Toxicol%20I nd%20Health.%27%29;) 2009 May-Jun;25(4-5):325-8.
Whey proteins influence hepatic glutathione after CCl4 intoxication.

Balbis E (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Balbis%20E%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Patriarca S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Patriarca%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Furfaro AL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Furfaro%20AL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Millanta S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Millanta%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Sukkar SG (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Sukkar%20SG%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Marinari UM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Marinari%20UM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Pronzato MA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Pronzato%20MA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Cottalasso D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Cottalasso%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Traverso N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Traverso%20N%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Experimental Medicine, Section of General Pathology, University of Genova, Genova, Italy.
Whey proteins (WP) are known to contain more cysteine than casein (CAS), so it is suggested that they should ameliorate the oxidative equilibrium in the organisms. To evaluate the influence of a WP-based diet on liver glutathione (GSH) content, male Sprague-Dawley rats were fed for 3 weeks a balanced liquid diet containing either WP or CAS as main source of protein. Liver GSH content was evaluated at the end of the treatment by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), both in basal conditions and after oxidative stress induced by CCl4 acute intoxication. In basal conditions, WP diet significantly increased hepatic GSH in comparison to CAS diet. After CCl4 intoxication, hepatic GSH was negligibly increased in CAS group, while its increase was much more marked in WP group, so that the difference between the two diets was significant; this suggests that WP provided rats with better ability to increase their GSH synthesis in case of need.

PMID: 19651804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

You are the man!

Your contributions to this section are awesome! and really appreciated!

natron
12-14-2009, 03:05 PM
Thank you, anytime

JG1
12-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Natron,

Is Palumbo's Isolyze undenatured?

natron
12-14-2009, 03:14 PM
Natron,

Is Palumbo's Isolyze undenatured?

It appears so, although it does not clearly state.

http://speciesnutrition.com/images/Isolyze%20Facts.jpg

ecessary for optimal immune system function and protein synthesis reactions.

And if all this werent enough, ISOLYZE tastes great too! Gone are the days of the chemical- or sour-tasting whey isolates! With ISOLYZE, you get the best of both worlds great quality and great taste!

natron
12-14-2009, 03:20 PM
Species Isolyze meets the following criteria,

whey protein isolate using cold filtering methods
27 grams of protein per 30 gram serving=90% protein

However I prefer to see the microfraction %'s, and it also states on the label derived from milk and soy??? WTF?

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Species Isolyze meets the following criteria,

whey protein isolate using cold filtering methods
27 grams of protein per 30 gram serving=90% protein

However I prefer to see the microfraction %'s, and it also states on the label derived from milk and soy??? WTF?

I would HOPE that is strictly there because the same machines are creating whey isolate and soy isolate, and there could be trace amounts of the soy in there?

natron
12-14-2009, 04:30 PM
I would HOPE that is strictly there because the same machines are creating whey isolate and soy isolate, and there could be trace amounts of the soy in there?

I'm assuming, but still

UnfinishedBusiness
12-14-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm assuming, but still

Agree, the price point should make this product beyond pristine.

natron
12-14-2009, 05:40 PM
yes it should, very expensive