I F'ed up, now let's fix it

[figurebre]

Anyone who has read my journal will know I am trying to get my metabolism back on track. It is clearly damaged from overdieting over the years. I have researched 'til my eyeballs bleed but I still want to hear everyone's opinion.
Obviously, taking time off and teaching my body to eat more are solutions. But how much time off? I took 5 weeks off from cardio, still lifting. I increased my calories to maintenace.
When can I start cardio? If I start cardio how much is too much? I don't want to gain weight, can I get my metabolism on track without gaining weight?
Does cardio stimulate the metabolism? Just wanting everyone's input.

[The Big Sexy]

I would think 20-30 minutes of cardio 5x a week would be sufficient... that is just what I would do, however.

Also, you might want to read about T(x) on our website - not a shameless plug - but it can help your thyroid work at its most optimum levels - unlike t3 which stimulates it to beyond it's optimum level... T(x) is more like vitamin C for your thyroid... it helps it work and function as it SHOULD.

If you are going low low carbs - I would probably avoid it for a certain amount of time... Carb cycling is a better way without sacrificing your metabolism... 4 days low, one day high and repeat.

Again, there is more than one way to do this - but it is probably something I would do.

[chucksm00th]

Did you get any bloodwork done? I know you dont want gain weight but and off season is a "sure" way to get your body to respond. 12 wks is a good start, try to follow a clean offseason and force yourself to eat as you would while dieting for a competition or to get in shape. My wife went thru this before the same as you, not wanting to gain weight etc and its a problem for most athletes especially in female athletes. Dieting causes body dismorphia for everyone so your not alone.
If you do take time off and gain your body will respond once again as it did before but it needs a break. Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move fowards in life otherwise your going to kill yourself trying to stay lean and you wont be able to make progress.
You can still do cardio in the offseason but it doesnt tend to be very effective if your eating alot. I hope this helps somewhat.

[natron]

Anyone who has read my journal will know I am trying to get my metabolism back on track. It is clearly damaged from overdieting over the years. I have researched 'til my eyeballs bleed but I still want to hear everyone's opinion.
Obviously, taking time off and teaching my body to eat more are solutions. But how much time off? I took 5 weeks off from cardio, still lifting. I increased my calories to maintenace.
When can I start cardio? If I start cardio how much is too much? I don't want to gain weight, can I get my metabolism on track without gaining weight?
Does cardio stimulate the metabolism? Just wanting everyone's input.

What exactly is the "problem" with your metabolism?

[figurebre]

I have already put on 30lbs from my contest weight. There is a real issue here, not a mental one. I had my bloodwork done. my protein count is 30% lower than it should be, which wouldnt make sense because i eat PLENTY of protein. 1.5x my bodyweight at least.

[figurebre]

Bre's Offseason: Learning to make it a lifestyle! - Page 34 - RX Muscle Forums

[natron]

If you care to explain more in depth, I'm sure we can help

[natron]

Wow! You are taking dieting/cardio way too far.

What supplements are you using, or were using.

We'll get to the bottom of it, but I must say, there is no reason one should ever have to do "marathon" sessions of cardio like that.

I'd be willing to bet leptin is not your friend

[natron]

I would think 20-30 minutes of cardio 5x a week would be sufficient... that is just what I would do, however.

Also, you might want to read about T(x) on our website - not a shameless plug - but it can help your thyroid work at its most optimum levels - unlike t3 which stimulates it to beyond it's optimum level... T(x) is more like vitamin C for your thyroid... it helps it work and function as it SHOULD.

If you are going low low carbs - I would probably avoid it for a certain amount of time... Carb cycling is a better way without sacrificing your metabolism... 4 days low, one day high and repeat.

Again, there is more than one way to do this - but it is probably something I would do.

Link to product?

[GENESIS]

you were doing alot of yo-yo dieting... i would get back to a good solid eating regemin. fruits vegetabales and all the other good stuff.

[natron]

This is going to be a quite sizeable puzzle.

Leptin, ghrelin, insulin sensitivety, thyroid levels, kidney function and immune system are all being effected negatively here.

You need to look at the big picture here, seriously.

[natron]

This would be a general recommendation on my part...

Take at least two weeks off heavy cardio. Do low intensity cardio 2 times per week, like walking, and keep the time around 20 minutes.

Alter your weight training to 2-3 workouts per week, using an upperbody/lower body split. Keep the workouts at 30 minutes, and fairly low intensity, for a few weeks as well.

Get plenty of sleep, and keep hydrated. Refrain from any drug use or alcohol

Supplements.
-undenatured whey isolate, 20-25 grams, 3-4 times per day, on empty stomach
-fish oil, 10 grams per day, in divided doses with food.
-vitamin B-complex(50mg), 1 capsule 3 times/day with food
-vitamin c (calcium ascorbate) 3 grams per day, in divided doses with food
-leucine, 5 grams 2 times per day, with whey protein

refrain from any and all stimulants for at least two weeks, including caffeine.

Do this for 2 weeks, then re-asses

[The Big Sexy]

Link to product?

http://alrindustries.com/ver2/index.php/products/fat-loss-energy/tx.html

[Ninja Loco]

Totaly uncalled for. She is asking for help and exposing herself with what she feels is a serious problem, not looking for positive attention from it. She is not instigating anything with you, nor has she ever with anyone.

[natron]

totaly uncalled for. She is asking for help and exposing herself with what she feels is a serious problem, not looking for positive attention from it. She is not instigating anything with you, nor has she ever with anyone.

wtf?

[juggernaut]

I would think 20-30 minutes of cardio 5x a week would be sufficient... that is just what I would do, however.

Also, you might want to read about T(x) on our website - not a shameless plug - but it can help your thyroid work at its most optimum levels - unlike t3 which stimulates it to beyond it's optimum level... T(x) is more like vitamin C for your thyroid... it helps it work and function as it SHOULD.

If you are going low low carbs - I would probably avoid it for a certain amount of time... Carb cycling is a better way without sacrificing your metabolism... 4 days low, one day high and repeat.

Again, there is more than one way to do this - but it is probably something I would do.
got a link to the Tx?
Also, whats a good dosing schedule for t3, I'm getting so many mixed answers.

[natron]

got a link to the Tx?
Also, whats a good dosing schedule for t3, I'm getting so many mixed answers.

It's already in the thread^^^^

Chemistry section for t-3 dosing protocols

[Tatyana]

I have already put on 30lbs from my contest weight. There is a real issue here, not a mental one. I had my bloodwork done. my protein count is 30% lower than it should be, which wouldnt make sense because i eat PLENTY of protein. 1.5x my bodyweight at least.


Would you post some of your blood tests results please?

Did you have any hormones checked, like TSH, free T4?

What was your cholesterol? Glucose?


Just one parameter being slightly out of range in one blood test really doesn't mean that much, especially something like total protein, not protein count, and it isn't really a reflection of your diet unless you have something like malabsorption, which you don't.

I wouldn't focus on the amount of weight, I would focus on bodyfat.

You may also want to read a bit about semi-starvation diets, which comp diets are, the one and only research paper is called 'The Minnesota Starvation Study'.

There is a natural psychological and physiological response to semi-starvation, we are wired to survive.

[juggernaut]

It's already in the thread^^^^

Chemistry section for t-3 dosing protocols
thanks natron

[GirlyMuscle]

Are you still working with Jeremy?

[Tatyana]

I feel like we are getting intimate...by posting my bloodwork :)

cholesterol 160 (way to go Bre! the oats are good 4 u)

4.14 mmol/L

triglycerides 62 (no fried foods sucka)

0.7 mmol/L

hdl cholesterol 87

2.25 mmol/L

ldl cholesterol 61

Your lipids are fine.
chol/hdl ratio 1.84

alb/glob ratio 1.6
(really old fashioned)
vldl chol 12

globulin 2.7


uric acid 3.7

magnesium 1.9

bun/creat ratio 20

bilirubin dir 0.1

GGT 11

CK total 171 (This is really high, i dont know what it is?)

Tsh 1.453
t4 7.3
THBR (T3uptake) 0.97
Free t4 index 7.1

ast 24
asl 26 (metabolic panel)

wbc 4.8
rbc 4.38
hemoglobin 14.0
hematocrit 41.1
mcv 93.8
mch 32.0
mchc 34.1
rdw-cv 13.0
rdw-cv 13
platelet count 135 (LOW-does that matter? why is it low?)
lympochyte 41.8%
neutrophil 47%
monocyte 8.5%
basophil 0.6%
eosinophil ABS .10
monocyte ABS .41
basophil ABS .03
RDW-SD 43.3
neutrophil ABS 2.26
lympochyte ABS 2.01

Iron 152
glucose 93
Bun 14
creatinine 0.71
sodium 138
potassium 4.3
chloride 101
bicarbonate 26
anion gap 11
calcium 8.9
protein total 6.9 (which was 30% lower than it should be)

69 g/L
Nope, it isn't. It is perfectly normal.
The normal range is 6.0 to 8.3 gm/dl (grams per deciliter).
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003483.htm

albumin 4.2

42 g/L

Albumin is normal as well.


bilirubin tot 0.7
alk phos 52 Tsh 1.453
t4 7.3
THBR (T3uptake) 0.97
Free t4 index 7.1

No offense, this lab work is about two decades behind Europe.

What units are the free T4? pmol/L? Is it even free T4 or have they done some bizarre calculation?



If so, that is your problem, you are hypothyroid, it has nothing to do with your total protein or albumin.

You can induce hypothyroidism with low carb diets, starvation/semi-starvation diets or if you are somewhat unwell.

All of your clinical symptoms match as well.

[natron]

great post!

[Dr Pangloss]

didnt a physician see these numbers? i find it hard to believe a physican would miss hypothyroid.

[figurebre]

This would be a general recommendation on my part...

Take at least two weeks off heavy cardio. Do low intensity cardio 2 times per week, like walking, and keep the time around 20 minutes.

Alter your weight training to 2-3 workouts per week, using an upperbody/lower body split. Keep the workouts at 30 minutes, and fairly low intensity, for a few weeks as well.

Get plenty of sleep, and keep hydrated. Refrain from any drug use or alcohol

Supplements.
-undenatured whey isolate, 20-25 grams, 3-4 times per day, on empty stomach
-fish oil, 10 grams per day, in divided doses with food.
-vitamin B-complex(50mg), 1 capsule 3 times/day with food
-vitamin c (calcium ascorbate) 3 grams per day, in divided doses with food
-leucine, 5 grams 2 times per day, with whey protein

refrain from any and all stimulants for at least two weeks, including caffeine.

Do this for 2 weeks, then re-asses

-I took 5 full weeks off of cardio. During this time I increased my weights/ lowered my reps and went from 3 training days a week to 5.
-I drink atleast 1 gallon of water a day.
-Increased my macros from 1500 cal to 2300 cal
-NO supplements aside from Multi-vitamin, vitamin C, Fish Oil, Karbolyn on training days and 1/2 pot of coffee with breakfast every day. I did dabble with phentermine for a few weeks...


Are you still working with Jeremy?

Well, I am not paying him right now. So, technically, no.


Tsh 1.453
t4 7.3
THBR (T3uptake) 0.97
Free t4 index 7.1

No offense, this lab work is about two decades behind Europe.

What units are the free T4? pmol/L? Is it even free T4 or have they done some bizarre calculation?



If so, that is your problem, you are hypothyroid, it has nothing to do with your total protein or albumin.

You can induce hypothyroidism with low carb diets, starvation/semi-starvation diets or if you are somewhat unwell.

All of your clinical symptoms match as well.


Thyroid normals checked out normal???
I have had 3 doctors review my bloodwork and the protein count is what has been the biggest concern.

TSH 1.453 Units uIU/ML Range [0.300-5.000]
T4 7.3 Units UG/DL Range [5.5-12.0]
THBR (T3uptake) 0.97 Units Ratio Range [0.76-1.23]
Free T4 Index 7.1 Range [3.8-13.5]

[natron]

If your questioning thyroid levels, you can do a daily check yourself to make sure your body temperature is in normal levels.

Typically if you are hypothyroid, your body temperature should measure a few percentile lower than normal.

[figurebre]

If your questioning thyroid levels, you can do a daily check yourself to make sure your body temperature is in normal levels.

Typically if you are hypothyroid, your body temperature should measure a few percentile lower than normal.

Yup, did that too. But the doctors still ignored me and everyone continues to NOT believe me. My temp was taken every morning prior to getting out of bed for a full week. Each time I took it, it measured at or below 97

[natron]

Yup, did that too. But the doctors still ignored me and everyone continues to NOT believe me. My temp was taken every morning prior to getting out of bed for a full week. Each time I took it, it measured at or below 97

If this is the case, I'm 99% sure you are hypothyroid.

This might be a problem with physicians because the levels considered normal widely vary. Poor evaluation by your Dr's.

That temp is WELL below normal.

[Dr Pangloss]

If this is the case, I'm 99% sure you are hypothyroid.

This might be a problem with physicians because the levels considered normal widely vary. Poor evaluation by your Dr's.

That temp is WELL below normal.


then an endocrinologist is in order...

[GirlyMuscle]

I heard that you should take your temp when you first wake up and then an hour after you're up. If it goes up to normal you're ok. Everyone is low first thing in the morning.

[Tatyana]

Thyroid normals checked out normal???
I have had 3 doctors review my bloodwork and the protein count is what has been the biggest concern.

TSH 1.453 Units uIU/ML Range [0.300-5.000]
T4 7.3 Units UG/DL Range [5.5-12.0]
THBR (T3uptake) 0.97 Units Ratio Range [0.76-1.23]
Free T4 Index 7.1 Range [3.8-13.5]


Ah, that is a units problem, bloody yanks not using the same scientific notation as the rest of the world.

It isn't a free T4 though.

What are the units on the total protein? also g/dL?

It seems so bizarre they are focusing on that, there isn't anything wrong.

Nothing else matches with a low albumin oedema.

If they really think that it is a synthesis issue with your liver (your results don't match malabsorption or protein loss through the gut), then you need a coagulation profile.

Total protein and albumin are really a part of a liver profile, the majority of the proteins in your blood are synthesised in your liver (with the exception of the gamma globulins), and your liver enzymes are also normal.

[natron]

then an endocrinologist is in order...

That would be the best bet, agreed

[Tatyana]

Yup, did that too. But the doctors still ignored me and everyone continues to NOT believe me. My temp was taken every morning prior to getting out of bed for a full week. Each time I took it, it measured at or below 97

That is a normal part of our diurnal cycle, our temperature drops when we sleep, staying warm consumes the vast majority of our calories, so there is no point in keeping our body temperature up when we don't need to.

I would get a repeat thyroid function test from another lab. You have the symptoms of subclinical hypothyroidism. You need to have a FREE T4 and FREE T3, not this outdated reverse T4 and uptake nonsense. Seriously, it is at least two decades out of date in clinical biochemistry.

I would also suggest you find another doctor, and request a basic female hormone panel, note what point in your cycle this is (four days past your period is ideal), and get an LH/FSH, oestradiol, progesterone, prolactin and cortisol.


Your total protein is normal.

The reference range for total protein is 60-85g/L. (It is also sometimes reported as "gm/dl" = 6.0-8.5 g/dL.)



Concentrations below the reference range usually reflect low albumin concentration, for instance in liver disease or acute infection.



Concentrations above the reference range are found in paraproteinaemia, Hodgkin's lymphoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma) or leukaemia.

[figurebre]

dr. pangloss-I thought about seeing an endo, and I might still do so. I just felt like I was wasting my time...because two doctors already shewed me away. My GP asked me if I had tried WEIGHT WATCHERS?!?!?! r u f-in kidding me? and what can they do? prescribe me meds? if I take thyroid meds, Ill have to take them for life.

Tatyana-
protein total 6.9 GM/DL [6.7-8.3]
albumin 4.2 GM/DL [4.0-5.1]


and random...but why is my platelet count low? 135 [172-411]

[figurebre]

Protein count-
Was explained to me as this:
'when a woman has a baby, her protein count is lowered dramatically because it took so much work for her body to create that other human. your labwork reflects the same effect, except yours is from extreme yo-yo dieting. You have done so much damage to your body, as if you could have created another human. Your protein count is 30% lower than it should be for your age and considering you have never had a baby'

Also, Layne Norton told me my protein count was very low as well.

[Dr Pangloss]

I hate to bad-mouth family practitioners, but in the US anyway a regular doc may not give you the right answer.

As Tat said, long-term low calorie diets can ellicit hypothyrodism. An endo, given your circumstances, symptoms, and blood work, may put 2+2 together.

[Tatyana]

dr. pangloss-I thought about seeing an endo, and I might still do so. I just felt like I was wasting my time...because two doctors already shewed me away. My GP asked me if I had tried WEIGHT WATCHERS?!?!?! r u f-in kidding me? and what can they do? prescribe me meds? if I take thyroid meds, Ill have to take them for life.

Tatyana-
protein total 6.9 GM/DL [6.7-8.3]
albumin 4.2 GM/DL [4.0-5.1]


and random...but why is my platelet count low? 135 [172-411]


Can you see that both the albumin and total protein fall within the reference range?

That means they are normal.

I am not as whiz bang with haemtology, but that isn't that low. It really shouldn't cause any sort of tendency to bleed.

Reference ranges only include 95% of the population, so that may be normal for you.


It could also be an artefactual result, it just happens in some blood samples.

Again, I can't believe they didn't do a coagulation, or request a follow up coagulation/clotting profile if they think that it is an issue with total protein and your platelets are slightly low.

I personally think they are wrong going down this avenue, but if they are going to do a proper investigation, at least do it right.

[figurebre]

lets just hope no one cuts me :hypno:

[Tatyana]

lets just hope no one cuts me :hypno:

Your platlets have to be around 80-100 to elicit problems.

If you were having issues with platelets now, you would probably have a tendency to bruising.

No offense, your doctor sounds like he was manipulating you to stop yo-yo dieting instead of actually trying to to figure out what, if anything, is going on with you.

How long has it been since your last comp?

It can take six months to a year to re-establish equilibrium from semi-starvation.

[figurebre]

last comp was jr nats, june 2009

[Tatyana]

last comp was jr nats, june 2009

I would highly recommend you read a few web sites that discuss the Minnesota Starvation study.

I highly suspect what you are going through is a normal physiological response to a long term semi-starvation diet.

The entire article is on this link, and Wiki has a nice summary as well.

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-weve-came-to-believe-that.html



The biological reality of our weights and weight control, and the effects of dieting, were clinically demonstrated more than 50 years ago in what remains the definitive research on the subject. The findings in this famous study, revolutionary at the time, have been replicated in the most precise, complicated metabolic studies of food intake behavior, energy expenditure and the biochemistry of fat conducted by the country’s top obesity researchers.

[figurebre]

Natron-
u say leptin and ghrelin are being effected negatively here. What do you mean by that. These are hormones that created the feeling of 'satiety', correct? Would that mean I would feel hunrgry or not feel hungry? Because for the most part, I dont feel hungry. I would have to miss a meal by about 4.5-5 hours in order to get a hungry belly.

[Tatyana]

Natron-
u say leptin and ghrelin are being effected negatively here. What do you mean by that. These are hormones that created the feeling of 'satiety', correct? Would that mean I would feel hunrgry or not feel hungry? Because for the most part, I dont feel hungry. I would have to miss a meal by about 4.5-5 hours in order to get a hungry belly.


The more bodyfat you have, theoretically, the more leptin you will have, which promotes satiety.

Ghreliin is the hunger hormone.

I would think these hormones are doing what they are meant to do.

[natron]

Natron-
u say leptin and ghrelin are being effected negatively here. What do you mean by that. These are hormones that created the feeling of 'satiety', correct? Would that mean I would feel hunrgry or not feel hungry? Because for the most part, I dont feel hungry. I would have to miss a meal by about 4.5-5 hours in order to get a hungry belly.

It's sort of touching base with what Tat has to say in regards to the semi starvation article.

Dieting of any type causes influx and redux in ghrelin and leptin, as well as other downstream variants.

I'm not too concerned with ghrelin, but leptin can be a real bitch (for lack of a better scientific term) to regulate and get back to normal.

High leptin levels, as well as low, can have a varied effect on body composition and metabolism. It's a quite complicated hormone to explain, as it is not even close to being fully understood. But this IMO, is the main reason why hypothyroidism induced by dieting in extreme deficits coupled with weight training and exercise take a long time to correct themselves.

At this point, get to an endocrinologist, get blood work done, and work from there. That is far more important at this point.

[figurebre]

Seeing an endocrinologist is going to be harder than I thought. I have to get a referral from my general practicioner first. ugh.

[juggernaut]

I hate that referral shit-fucking GPs should die.

[figurebre]

my GP just thinks Im full of shit, you know? makes it difficult.

[juggernaut]

you need a new doctor. I fully believe in self-medicating. :)
But in all seriousness, get a new one.

[Tatyana]

my GP just thinks Im full of shit, you know? makes it difficult.

I would see if you can find another independent lab to have your thyroid function tested again.

Your current thyroid function test does show that your TSH is under 2 IU/L, which indicates that your free T4 and free T3 are more than likely normal, but there are people who present with hypothyroidism with a normal TSH level.

The testing you had done is very out of date and it looks like they determined your T4 indirectly from measuring the thyroid globulin binding protein or some odd resin binding test.

There is also the possibility that your body will return to a normal homeostasis within three to six months.

[figurebre]

Idk if I will get to see a doc or not. my GP refused to take my female panel. I am going to attempt to ask my obgyn... i dont even know if that is something they do...

my body definately is not ready to diet. its difficult eating 2300 cal a day, i know that seems absurd...but 6oz of tuna is just ...blech. too much food is better than not enough, however.

the water retention I am experiencing is bizarre. Clearly, I am leaner than your average woman. but the water is substantial in my lower abdomen, inner & outer thigh. it literally looks like a pool of water, just collecting in these areas. if it wasnt for the water retention, id be completely content with my body.
The water is giving a rippling, cellulite appearance. part of it might actually be cellulite, but i find it hard to believe that my calves would have cellulite.

i had been taking dandelion root on a daily basis, but it really didnt relieve any of the water retention, despite peeing frequently. speaking of which, i pee every 30 minutes...thats a lot. so whys the stupid water hanging on?

its getting to the point where ive accept how i am now and realize there isnt anything i can do that i havent already been doing. it just takes time from here.

[natron]

Idk if I will get to see a doc or not. my GP refused to take my female panel. I am going to attempt to ask my obgyn... i dont even know if that is something they do...

my body definately is not ready to diet. its difficult eating 2300 cal a day, i know that seems absurd...but 6oz of tuna is just ...blech. too much food is better than not enough, however.

the water retention I am experiencing is bizarre. Clearly, I am leaner than your average woman. but the water is substantial in my lower abdomen, inner & outer thigh. it literally looks like a pool of water, just collecting in these areas. if it wasnt for the water retention, id be completely content with my body.
The water is giving a rippling, cellulite appearance. part of it might actually be cellulite, but i find it hard to believe that my calves would have cellulite.

i had been taking dandelion root on a daily basis, but it really didnt relieve any of the water retention, despite peeing frequently. speaking of which, i pee every 30 minutes...thats a lot. so whys the stupid water hanging on?

its getting to the point where ive accept how i am now and realize there isnt anything i can do that i havent already been doing. it just takes time from here.

stop using dandelion root now, that wont help, your only furthering the problem Bre.

sit back and chill a bit, i promise we'll figure it out.

and LOL@ your doc saying no, its your right. Tell him what you want done, dont ask him. Its your right to be tested if you wish, seriously. Fucking tell him

[figurebre]

my insurance may not cover that kind of testing because of my age, so maybe thats why.
havent used dandelion root in...oh...a month

[figurebre]

Met wtih the endocrinologist last friday. took a bunch of bloodwork and a urine sample. i get the results this friday.

[vboissiere]

Been following this tread. Have you in my thoughts. Hope you're able to correct what is wrong and get back go normal as quickly ad possible.