Lipolyze/Somalyze Stack

[GDavis]

I have been unable to find any information regarding the cycling of both lipolyze and somalyze. How long is effective use? The fact of both being non stimulant based, should it still be cycled? At what point do you get diminishing returns? Are their any other supplements, which would act synergistically with this combo?

Thanks

[robofsteel]

You should cycle all supplements(except protein powders). Go 8 weeks on and then 4 weeks off. You wouldnt need anyother fat burners with Lipolyze/Somalyze. They both work really well. Somalyze helps me get a real deep sleep!

[Kenzilla21]

I just ordered this combo and I am going to use for the entire month of December. Both are a 30 day supply and I plan to order another month's worth after Christmas so that would be running it for 60 days and seeing how it goes.

[hulkish808]

i took 2 cycles of this last year, and really enjoyed them! somalyze really helped me to go to sleep..i dropped roughly 40lbs...along with dieting of course...

[GDavis]

For a longer fat loss cycle. Would it be effective to use a another, perhaps stim-based burner during the four week off phase.

[GDavis]

In response to the 8 week on and 4 week off approach. For a longer fat loss cycle. Would it be effective to use a another, perhaps stim-based burner during the four week off phase.

[big nut]

i took 2 cycles of this last year, and really enjoyed them! somalyze really helped me to go to sleep..i dropped roughly 40lbs...along with dieting of course...
wow, nice job. i tried lipolyze once but now sure of the result. i used it in the middle of an 18 week diet. i lost 40 lbs precontest, but didn't see a difference in weight loss while taking the lipolyze.

maybe it works better combined with somalyze? thats something i'd like to try

[Kenzilla21]

I just started taking the stack on December 1st, and so far I have not felt the usnic acid body temperature increase. I am taking the 36mg during the day and 12mg at night. I was wondering if anyone else has not felt the increased heat production?

[hulkish808]

what i felt with the usnic acid was a tingling sensation, like how you get with beta alanine. I wanna try the Cytolean V2/Mitotrophin stack next.

[AlaskaMuscle]

I have been taking the stack for a few weeks now and am sweating really bad while sleeping. Has not been an issue while I am awake. Anyone else have this happen?

[robofsteel]

I also get nite sweats sometimes when Im on Lipo/Soma stack.

[Achilleus]

any differences in the ingredients of these products sold in canada vs the states?

[robofsteel]

any differences in the ingredients of these products sold in canada vs the states?

There is no difference.

[fitbody]

There is no difference.

No because they come thru Species Canada
which gets them directly from Species
there's nothing taken outta them
cuz there's nothing in them thatz not allowed in Canada

[fitbody]

any differences in the ingredients of these products sold in canada vs the states?

where are you in Canada ?
where are you gettin your products ?

[Kenzilla21]

During the June 22nd Heavy Muscle Radio program, Dave made a comment about adding T2 into his lipolyze. Are there any plans for it to be added in?

[apex23]

Lipolyze causes me to sweat.

Also keep in mind that you might notice that you are feeling warmer especially when dieting..

[robofsteel]

No because they come thru Species Canada
which gets them directly from Species
there's nothing taken outta them
cuz there's nothing in them thatz not allowed in Canada

I wasn't asking a question Fitbody! LOL I am the National Sales Manager for Species in the USA. :yep:

[AlaskaMuscle]

I am still using the Lipo/Soma combo but have stopped night sweating. Does this just mean my body is adjusting or should I cycle off for a little while?

[Achilleus]

where are you in Canada ?
where are you gettin your products ?

I'm in Ontario. Ordered my products through Species Canada. I placed my order on Dec. 28th and received them on the 30th, quick service! Ordered a tub of Isolyze (vanilla peanut butter) taste great, lipolyze and somalyze. I'll msg back here at the end of the month to let you guys know how the products were.

[bleckrocks]

I am still using the Lipo/Soma combo but have stopped night sweating. Does this just mean my body is adjusting or should I cycle off for a little while?

into my 2008 national show, i used that combo, had same thing night sweats, wake up looking real dry and vascular.

i think over time my body wasnt reacting the same. had a hard time not using somalyze at night. love the rest i get .

however, if u do weed off. Get the " U4EA" you will get similar affects...it has GABA in it like Somalyze...

hopefully u can get past the taste if you havent tried it..if yu not sure where to get it, hit up Dave Palumbo..

it taste like vial but oooh man its really cool stuff.

thats my story
SB

[AlaskaMuscle]

into my 2008 national show, i used that combo, had same thing night sweats, wake up looking real dry and vascular.

i think over time my body wasnt reacting the same. had a hard time not using somalyze at night. love the rest i get .

however, if u do weed off. Get the " U4EA" you will get similar affects...it has GABA in it like Somalyze...

hopefully u can get past the taste if you havent tried it..if yu not sure where to get it, hit up Dave Palumbo..

it taste like vial but oooh man its really cool stuff.

thats my story
SB


Thanks for the info. Have not tried U4EA but will check it out.

[apex23]

Has anyone had their liver enzymes checked while taking Lipolyze? I sure would like to see if there is any elevation in liver enzymes.


I know it is a small amount of Ua, but I want to be safe.

[sba220]

Has anyone had their liver enzymes checked while taking Lipolyze? I sure would like to see if there is any elevation in liver enzymes.


I know it is a small amount of Ua, but I want to be safe.

My liver enzymes have been elevated since I started lifting when I was 14...since then the levels have been consistent and there was no change while I was on the Lipo/Soma stack.

[apex23]

I have been elevated to bc of training....but the family doctor always thought it was due to supplementation. When I talked to another doctor, he said my range was fine for someone that lifts.

Thanks on the fb.

[Jeepgcboy97]

I have been unable to find any information regarding the cycling of both lipolyze and somalyze. How long is effective use? The fact of both being non stimulant based, should it still be cycled? At what point do you get diminishing returns? Are their any other supplements, which would act synergistically with this combo?

Thanks


i took both products for 12 weeks pre contest for the 08' NYC MET. combined with my diet, workouts and supps, i really saw a fast drop in bodyfat. somalyze helped me sleep better and i looked good when i woke up lol. the lipolyze was great for me during the day, no shakes or anything...

now that i think about it, i took the entire species line pre-contest lol...love all their products, high quality...

[R.I.P.]

just ordered these from bb.com. can't wait to try them both.

[sba220]

I have been elevated to bc of training....but the family doctor always thought it was due to supplementation. When I talked to another doctor, he said my range was fine for someone that lifts.

Thanks on the fb.

Anyone who lifts intensly breaks down muscle and when that happens there are muscle enzymes that are in the blood. This produces a false negative on the liver enzymen blood workup. Most people who train regularly with weights have slightly elevated liver enzymes. If your doctor does or will understand this, its simple. At that point you just change the reference range. If you were to add in a new supplement or have a problem from something else, you'd see that they were elevated from YOUR baseline. Not from the one someone determined in a lab somewhere.

[R.I.P.]

got the lipo/soma stack. was looking forward to sweating but sadly. nothing happening. i do sleep good.lol. iasked alr about these then wondered why he didnt answer. what a dumbass i can be.ooppss.

[Provo82]

Anyone who lifts intensly breaks down muscle and when that happens there are muscle enzymes that are in the blood. This produces a false negative on the liver enzymen blood workup. Most people who train regularly with weights have slightly elevated liver enzymes. If your doctor does or will understand this, its simple. At that point you just change the reference range. If you were to add in a new supplement or have a problem from something else, you'd see that they were elevated from YOUR baseline. Not from the one someone determined in a lab somewhere.

Yes absolutely true! My AST and ALT values are usually atleast 40 points elevated. One time i went in the morning after an intense leg workout and i got called back to the doctors saying it was an emergency. AST was almost 200 points above normal. retested 2 days later and was only 40 points up. I took a week off of training this winter and got a blood test and this was the only time i had normal enzymes!

[Provo82]

however many doctors dont wanna admit that training could be thee cause. They usually try to blame drug use or supplement use. Even if you havent been on either for months!

[Steve56]

Yes absolutely true! My AST and ALT values are usually atleast 40 points elevated. One time i went in the morning after an intense leg workout and i got called back to the doctors saying it was an emergency. AST was almost 200 points above normal. retested 2 days later and was only 40 points up. I took a week off of training this winter and got a blood test and this was the only time i had normal enzymes!

Same with me Phil..mine are always high because of training..and like you said last year i got it checked after about 10 days no supps no training and my enzymes were perfect

[retwa]

However, Lipolyze does contains two ingredients, Usnic acid and green tea extract, that have been associated with liver problems.

See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19198822

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16610575

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15128366


mod's note: i restored this...sorry I was a big trigger happy.....this is known published info...and we do not dispute its existence only its relevance to lip/som....big j1

[Deadlifter91]

wow green tea extract causing liver problems :hypno:

[Curt James]

I made the analogy elsewhere of aspirin and usnic acid. The fact that one aspirin eases headache pain, however a bottle of aspirin will finish you.

My question was whether a parallel exists. A small dose of usnic acid works well for fat loss while a large dose can prove harmful?

I've been Googling to no productive result. There are a few abstracts, however they weren't especially positive or informative, imo. Can someone from Species Nutrition offer a recommended or "safe" dosage of this ingredient?

[SallyAnne]

Curt, I believe you are correct in that there is a parallel.

The tests done with usnic acid in rats or mice (I forget which) that showed liver toxicity from the usnic acid were from extremely high doses. They basically saturated the test animals with ua - hundreds of milligrams.

If you look at the recommended dose in Lipolyze, you'll see that there are 12mg of ua per dose for a human, which isn't even a 10th of what they gave to the test animals.

[Curt James]

^Exactly. The recommended dose is 36mg per day, so I was curious if that was somehow harmful even given the abstracts and negative reports. The parallel seemed obvious to me.

Someone replied elsewhere (and you can probably guess who) that my argument was incorrect. They, instead of using aspirin as the analogy, offered, "If 100 bullets will kill you then how can 10 bullets be okay?"

Thought that comparison was absurd but still replied that I'd rather take my chances with 10 bullets over 100. :p

Anyway, I'm no expert and so I thought I'd ask in this thread.

http://www.speciesnutrition.com/graphics/FoodLabels/lipolyzefoodlabelweb.jpg

[SashaG]

Having taken the Lipo / Soma stack twice now I would like to hear from Dave on the claim from one consumer has made. As a customer of Dave's I don't think it's wrong to be asking about this.

Dave, can you please comment?

Sasha

[Carson]

Having taken the Lipo / Soma stack twice now I would like to hear from Dave on the claim from one consumer has made. As a customer of Dave's I don't think it's wrong to be asking about this.

Dave, can you please comment?

Sasha

Considering there is a pending/rumored legal issue, I can assure you any comments will be vague. As I was told once released from what I feel is a gag we will know the details of this situation. Now, until that is withdrew we are all left to speculate. However, I am sure we will see some type of statement soon from some reliable source.

[Curt James]

As for your analogy with aspirin...there's a difference. Aspirin's been used, studied, and approved by the medical community for decades. Usnic acid is still quite an unknown when it comes to human use. I'd risk 10 bullets over 100, but 0 over 10...

Are you Anthony Roberts?


the high dose of green tea extract in Lipolyze could also lead to hepatotoxicity.

Conclusions Our analysis of the published case reports suggests a causal association between green tea and liver damage. The hepatotoxicity is probably due to (-)-epigallocatechin gallate or its metabolites which, under particular conditions related to the patient’s metabolism, can induce oxidative stress in the liver. In a few cases, toxicity related to concomitant medications could also be involved.

From http://www.springerlink.com/content/m474n7w10rw7k251/

Again, I'd like to know if Mazzanti, et al. would recommend avoiding green tea entirely. I suspect not. Plus if you put anything under a microscope you'll probably find reasons to claim it a hazard.

Water intoxication?

Water intoxication (also known as hyper-hydration or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water. Normal, healthy (physically, nutritionally and mentally) individuals have little reason to worry about accidentally consuming too much water. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests, in which individuals attempt to consume high amounts of water, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet excessive amounts of fluid are still consumed.

More @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication


Usnic acid, a lichen acid, is a compound found in crude medicines and dietary supplements, including Lipokinetix, a supplement marketed as a weight loss agent that caused hepatotoxicity and acute liver failure in patients. In this study, we examined the toxicity of usnic acid and assessed whether usnic acid may be contributing to hepatotoxicity caused by Lipokinetix. In primary cultured murine hepatocytes, usnic acid treatment (5 microM)

Where are the chemists or educated folk? Whazza "microM" translate or convert to, ball park, for mg? :dunno:


Oxidative stress appears to be central in usnic acid-induced hepatotoxicity based on the following findings: (1) pretreatment with antioxidants (butylated hydroxytoluene+Vitamin E) decreased usnic acid-induced necrosis by nearly 70%; (snip)

So adding antioxidants descreases any danger? Still not clear on what amount of usnic acid was being used in these studies.

How can anyone say dosage is not a factor and then hold up "excess bullets" as their argument. :confused:

[retwa]

If you actually read my post, I said that dosage was a factor, quite clearly, right at the beginning. It would be ridiculous to claim otherwise. The difference between usnic acid overdose and water overdose is that, like I was trying to convey earlier, a safe dose of usnic acid for humans has yet to be established. Now we all know that water is perfectly safe in certain quantities, it has been consumed regularly since the dawn of man, etc, etc. Your analogy is thus perfectly incorrect.

[Curt James]

Now we all know that water is perfectly safe in certain quantities

Quantities is an important distinction.

I imagine that a number of factors would have an impact on what quantity is safe.

This probably applies to usnic acid, water, green tea extract, aspirin, and more.

You're certain you're not Anthony Roberts?

[R.I.P.]

shoot test 3x's week...no problem......36mgs usnic acid a day...all hell breaks loose...wtf?

[Curt James]

Usnic acid is not comparable, as a safe dose has not been established, and it really has no track record.

Palumbo has been selling this product for years with positive results and only one complaint. I'd say that's a good track record.

The woman's actual story will hopefully come to light, and I strongly suspect there's more to her health issues than a bottle of Lipolyze.


shoot test 3x's week...no problem......36mgs usnic acid a day...all hell breaks loose...wtf?

Exactly.

The difference being that there are no UGL addresses for a lawyer to send letters to seeking "damages".

[stl50]

But isn't it just as irresponsible to make blanket statements about a product based on accusations without any proof whatsoever? ?

This is getting more like the ridiculous banning of ephedra, without taking into account the numerous other factors/irresponsible usage/preexisting conditions that led to several deaths.

[retwa]

But isn't it just as irresponsible to make blanket statements about a product based on accusations without any proof whatsoever? ?

This is getting more like the ridiculous banning of ephedra, without taking into account the numerous other factors/irresponsible usage/preexisting conditions that led to several deaths.

Yes...and I don't believe I've made any blanket statements about this product. The most I may have said is that it's "possibly linked to liver issues". All I'm getting at is that the substance demands more study for its safety in humans for myself to use it. And I don't support banning any substance, so long as people are aware of its risks, and so long as its use won't possibly have disastrous health consequences for society (overuse of antibiotics could do this, but most controlled substances, no). In a free society, people should have the right to gamble with their own health. Personally, I think usnic acid is a bit of a gamble, but if you don't agree, then have at it.

[Big J1]

Having taken the Lipo / Soma stack twice now I would like to hear from Dave on the claim from one consumer has made. As a customer of Dave's I don't think it's wrong to be asking about this.

Dave, can you please comment?

Sasha

Please read Carson's post carefully. It is reliable. I have been told by legal counsel I can confirm that ONE complaint has been made in 3 and 1/2 years of selling LIPOLYZE/SOMALYZE and that there currently are NO pending or settled lawsuits. *****This is new info here******.....lets jump on it and post it where all Species management are currently BANNED from responding in any form.

Further Species Nutrition acknowledges the existence of prior studies on the effect of animal tested large doses of Usnic Acid on liver toxicity. Dave has already commented on this subject on the first day of the existence of Species...Please check out FAQ's on www.speciesnutrition.com (http://www.speciesnutrition.com) While his position is subject to discusssion, it has not changed.

I again promise you that as I am able to comment on the issues, I will in full on each one.

[Big J1]

Yes...and I don't believe I've made any blanket statements about this product. The most I may have said is that it's "possibly linked to liver issues". All I'm getting at is that the substance demands more study for its safety in humans for myself to use it. And I don't support banning any substance, so long as people are aware of its risks, and so long as its use won't possibly have disastrous health consequences for society (overuse of antibiotics could do this, but most controlled substances, no). In a free society, people should have the right to gamble with their own health. Personally, I think usnic acid is a bit of a gamble, but if you don't agree, then have at it.

This one actually is decent and not repetitive..

[retwa]

Well, apparently someone felt the need to delete some of my posts in this thread, though I made no accusations; I was only interested in discussing the relevant information on usnic acid.

See, it's not the actual articles, or even the supplements being promoted here that make me suspicious of the intentions of some people running this site. It's the lack of honesty, the outright censorship, and unwillingness to hold a balanced discussion on an important issue. It's one thing to make an official statement, provide evidence, and argue for your position. It's entirely another thing to simply silence any voice of opposition in order to mislead readers.

Hell, the deleted posts still exist in another poster's quotations, it is so obvious to everyone reading...

I wonder how long this post will last...

[Big J1]

Well, apparently someone felt the need to delete some of my posts in this thread, though I made no accusations; I was only interested in discussing the relevant information on usnic acid.

See, it's not the actual articles, or even the supplements being promoted here that make me suspicious of the intentions of some people running this site. It's the lack of honesty, the outright censorship, and unwillingness to hold a balanced discussion on an important issue. It's one thing to make an official statement, provide evidence, and argue for your position. It's entirely another thing to simply silence any voice of opposition in order to mislead readers.

Hell, the deleted posts still exist in another poster's quotations, it is so obvious to everyone reading...

I wonder how long this post will last...

Well, I tried to leave up the posts you have made that went towards having a balanced and informative discussion on the subject and were not just repetition of same old, same old. In fact I even gave u kudos for one of the posts...U obviously missed that one in talking about the lack of honesty, outright censorship and unwillingness to discuss. I even tried to guide you to the post of someone who actually has decent official information.

So now you have forced me to repeat myself, when Species is allowed to comment on these issues moreso than above, I will do it personally as Chief Operating Officer....please read my above quotes more carefully and if you wish to have a master debate with yourself, this is not the forum.

[retwa]

So, posting studies relevant to a substance in your product is "repetitive", though no one else had done so, and is cause for deletion. Yet all of the other garbage off-topic posts on this forum that contribute nothing and are totally irrelevant to any real discussion are not any problem at all...this is censorship, because some information is being removed in order to shut down the discussion of selected topics.

Getting back to the actual supplements, and this should be a relatively easy question for a COO to answer in a straight-forward manner, and hopefully isn't too repetitive: if there is no pending litigation involving Lipolyze and Somalyze, why have certain retailers pulled the product from their online storefront?

[Big J1]

I can confirm that Bodybuilding.com has pulled lipolyze and somalyze from their website. AT this stage I cannot confirm why, because honestly I dont know. To my knowledge the only studies on usnic acid were related to testing which occured over 4 years ago. Bodybuilding.com has carried the product for the past 2 year, in fact, it was nominated for new product of the year last year. They have also carried it for 8 months subsequent to any complaint received.

In the only conversation that I had with BB.com on the subject, they referred to prior studies. I am working through channels to receive more detailed information. We would welcome any NEW information as to the efficacy of Usnic Acid, however we do not believe there are any new studies on the subject.

I cant give you a direct answer to your question re: bb.com's reasoning but I can speculate it may have to do with increased scrutiny on their product lines after the pro-hormone raids earlier this year or with the publicity being generated from our new director of public relations..lol.

*****more new info***** I can also confirm that the MD store has also dropped lipolyze/somalyze. This one is more interesting, in that it is amazing that they even offered it in the first place. When their new store went up, it was the subject of discussion here, as to whether species would be carried AT ALL!!! We were a little shocked and did have a discussion with the distributor who is doing all fulfillment for the MD store. (yes they carry no inventory of any product). We agreed to let it be offered as to provide complete services for our customers. In one of the few agreements I have with our biggest fan (lol), I realized that Steve Blechman had no idea what was being sold on his own site. GOD BLESS THE INTERNET!

However, for now this is all you get my friends. If you cannot understand my position, then you have no need to "advertise" on the Species forum thread of the RX Muscle site... If you wish to take it elsewhere, I do encourage it....

[Big J1]

[quote=retwa;995685]So, posting studies relevant to a substance in your product is "repetitive", though no one else had done so, and is cause for deletion. Yet all of the other garbage off-topic posts on this forum that contribute nothing and are totally irrelevant to any real discussion are not any problem at all...this is censorship, because some information is being removed in order to shut down the discussion of selected topics.

There have been numerous threads posted here and in Muscle Central regarding the "relevant" studies. study I apologize for removing the post and I did restore it and made an editors note... I let this one stay on this thread and then deleted the reposts and the rereferences. This is a sponsor's forum on RX and best I can tell has very few garbage off-topic posts.

Your claim that you have no agenda is likely disingenuous but so far you have been respectful, if somewhat clever, in your posting. But I have told you all I can, draw any inferences you wish.

[gresh]

Bodybuilding.com has dropped alot of products and stopped carrying quite a few companies over the past few months. I guess the raid that occurred there has prompted them to remove everything that could be construed as "unsafe".
BTW, Ive used both Lipolyze and Somalyze successfully without any problems at all.

[retwa]

There have been numerous threads posted here and in Muscle Central regarding the "relevant" studies. study I apologize for removing the post and I did restore it and made an editors note... I let this one stay on this thread and then deleted the reposts and the rereferences. This is a sponsor's forum on RX and best I can tell has very few garbage off-topic posts.

Your claim that you have no agenda is likely disingenuous but so far you have been respectful, if somewhat clever, in your posting. But I have told you all I can, draw any inferences you wish.

Thanks, I appreciate this. Though you may not believe me, I really have no 'agenda' whatsoever, and nothing against Species products...it's just that I've felt a need to probe the matter, especially after it seemed that information was being avoided or censored in discussions. Combine that with the product being pulled from online stores, and it's intriguing. I'm just interested in supplements in general, and this seems to be one of the "hot topics", so I wanted a lively discussion, that's all.

I'm glad the links to the studies have been re-posted. They certainly aren't secret information, and should be mentioned on this thread, just because it has to do with some of the "chatter" regarding these products. I'm not saying they are proof, one way or the other, regarding the safety of Species products...it's certainly true that Lipolyze and Somalyze use much lower doses of the usnic acid than those earlier studied supplements. I'd really just like to see more studies done on usnic acid supplementation in humans that could establish a generally safe dose for people to take long-term. And I'm sure Species would too; if a study were performed using Lipolyze for a few months that evaluated liver function and showed no issues...that's great for everyone, because people like me who are wary of the possible risks would probably decide to buy the product.

I'm interested in hearing more about why the products were pulled...if I worked at Species, I would be calling up the stores and getting this resolved right away, because it isn't good for business...and inquiring minds like mine start to dig around...

Anyway, thanks for the response and the honesty. If you don't know, then you don't know.

[SashaG]

Please read Carson's post carefully. It is reliable. I have been told by legal counsel I can confirm that ONE complaint has been made in 3 and 1/2 years of selling LIPOLYZE/SOMALYZE and that there currently are NO pending or settled lawsuits. *****This is new info here******.....lets jump on it and post it where all Species management are currently BANNED from responding in any form.

Further Species Nutrition acknowledges the existence of prior studies on the effect of animal tested large doses of Usnic Acid on liver toxicity. Dave has already commented on this subject on the first day of the existence of Species...Please check out FAQ's on www.speciesnutrition.com (http://www.speciesnutrition.com) While his position is subject to discusssion, it has not changed.

I again promise you that as I am able to comment on the issues, I will in full on each one.

Thanks for the comment and personally I will wait until the matter is resolved and publicized before using Dave's Lipo / Soma stack . . there are just too many coincidental factors surrounding this topic for me personally to feel comfortable.

[R.I.P.]

it only takes a couple complaints.look what happened to ephedra. fucking idiots.

[trap]

YouTube- Lipolyze Reviews

:dunno:

[dsyndrome]

Super grateful to find this forum. I have already found some super helpful information. I have been stacking lipo/somo for the past five months. Works great, however I did not know about cycling off. The somalyze takes my breath away about a half hour after I take it. Scared the s**** out of me the first couple of times that I took it. Thanks for the posts.

[apex23]

Green Tea causes lives issues??? Damn, I think I have heard it all.

If people are scared to use Dave's products then just do not take them. I have used Lipolyze at 6 a day for 4 months straight and can vouch that my liver was just fine. I have it tested every 6 months.

Believe me that I have NO association with Dave or Species Nutrition...if I saw proof that it was harmful or did not work I would not use or recommend his products. For me, they work plain and simple.

[chrism26]

i have been using the somolayze and just started the lipolyze. very impressed with the somalyze it has helped me through my whole contest prep as far as feeling rested even when getting less sleep and waking up hard. The Vanpb whey is money worth every single penny. Nothing but great products from u guys so far. Whats the max dosing on the lipolyze?

[robofsteel]

i have been using the somolayze and just started the lipolyze. very impressed with the somalyze it has helped me through my whole contest prep as far as feeling rested even when getting less sleep and waking up hard. The Vanpb whey is money worth every single penny. Nothing but great products from u guys so far. Whats the max dosing on the lipolyze?

Follow the directions on the label. 1 cap 3 times per day.

[chrism26]

Ok. I had seen some stuff were four to five? But I'll go with the three.

[Kenzilla21]

I see there are new versions of Lipolyze and Somalyze, why was Usnic acid removed from the new versions?

[Rambo2]

the controvery no doubt, bb.com not selling them for example

pretty cool to see new updates anyway, wonder how effective they are!

new Lipolyze has T2 in place of the UA

new Somalyze has OEA instead

[apex23]

It should be interesting to hear feedback. I will mise the UA, which I think was the key ingredient.