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Baal
02-09-2009, 08:29 AM
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM?s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

by William Llewellyn


SERM:
Clomid, stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that
a faster and higher release of follicle stimulating hormone aud
luteinizing hormone occurs. This results in an increase of the body's
own testosterone production. Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, however
it does also work as an anti-estrogen. How does it work? Because it is
a weak synthetic estrogen, it will bind to the estrogen receptor (ER)
and not cause any problems. At the same time the increase in estrogen
from steroids are blocked from attaching to the ER.

Nolvadex, is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in
all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same
type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it
blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it
is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

Cyclofenil, similar to HCG and Clomid in action. This drug is most
commonly used to increase endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle
in an attempt to avoid a hard crash while waiting for your hormone
levels to naturally balance. Similar to HCG and Clomid, cyclofenil
seems to quickly and effectively raise natural levels. Cyclofenil is
an estrogen that works as an anti-estrogen as well as a testosterone
booster.

AI:
Femara, (letrozole tablets) for oral administration contain 2.5 mg of
letrozole, a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor (inhibitor of estrogen
synthesis). Letrozole is a nonsteroidal competitive inhibitor of the
aromatase enzyme system; it inhibits the conversion of androgens to
estrogens.

Cytadren, (aminoglutethimide) at moderate doses, is a fairly effective inhibitor of aromatase and a weak inhibitor of desmolase (an enzyme needed for the
production of all steroids), and at higher doses becomes an effective
inhibitor of desmolase. It is therefore useful when using aromatizable
steroids, though it is not the drug of choice for this purpose.

Aromasin, tablets for oral administration contain 25 mg of exemestane,
an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator. Exemestane is
chemically described as 6-methylenandrosta-1,4-diene-3,17 -dione.

Anastrozole,(Arimidex) is the aromatase inhibitor of choice. The drug
is appropriately used when using substantial amounts of aromatizing
steroids, or when one is prone to gynecomastia and using moderate
amounts of such steroids. It is manufactured by Zenica Pharmaceuticals
and was approved for use in the United States at the end of Dec 1995.

Proviron, is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the
aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only
blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents
the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water
retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses
the forming of estrogens no re-bound effect occurs.

Teslac,is unique in its effectiveness as an antiestrogen. Like
Proviron, it prevents the aromatizing process of the steroids from the
basis. Thus, Teslac prevents almost completely the introduction of more
estrogens into the blood and subsequent bonding with the estrogen
receptors.

6-OXO, contains a naturally occurring aromatase inhibitor that is devoid of any direct hormonal or prohormonal activity (androgenic or estrogenic). It is what science refers to as a "suicide inhibitor" of aromatase.

L-Dex, same as arimidex or anastrozole; known as an AI and popular on chemical supply sites. This is the name given on chemical supply sites instead of it's original name. L-Dex meaning "Liquidex".

There are a number of chemical research sites that sell liquid products similar to the above mentioned items. These products are the same but in liquid form such as liquid clomid, liquid nolva, liquid femera, and liquid arimidex.

Dosage's are usually adminstered by droppers but dosage amounts per ml differ from site to site.



Also, even though bodybuilders resort to these products in paranoia of the affects of estrogen. It is important to remember, estrogen is necessary and must be balanced not completely inhibited in the system. Below is an excellent reading about the necessity of estrogen.

To much is bad, but estrogen in moderation is priceless!
by William Llewellyn

Can estrogen work to augment muscle growth? Is this hormone always unwanted when we are taking anabolic steroids? Anecdotal reports from athletes suggest that the use of estrogen maintenance drugs such as tamoxifen (anti-estrogen) or aminoglutethimide (anti-aromatase) may slightly hinder muscle mass gains during steroid therapy. An explanation or even clarification for this observation has not been easy to come by. Here I would like to take a look at the comparative effectiveness of certain aromatizable and non-aromatizable drugs, as well as the possible mechanism in which estrogen can play a beneficial role to the athlete.

The Androgen Receptor
All anabolic/androgenic steroids promote muscle growth primarily via the cellular androgen receptor (abbreviated as AR in this article). The steroid attaches to and activates the androgen receptor, which ultimately gives the cell an order to increase protein synthesis. This process is well understood. But it has been suggested that other mechanisms may foster muscle growth during steroid therapy as well, which lie outside of the androgen receptor. One way this is evidenced is by the fact that steroids displaying a high affinity for the AR in muscle tissue do not always promote an equally high level of muscle growth. In other words, anabolic potency does not always correspond perfectly to receptor affinity. Clearly there are some disparities that lead into question whether or not the androgen receptor is the only thing at work concerning growth.

Testosterone, Nandrolone and Methenolone
Testosterone is without question one of the most effective steroids for building muscle mass available to athletes. However it does not have the highest affinity for the androgen receptor compared to some other steroids. For example, it has been shown that by eliminating the 19-methyl group (nandrolone) the affinity of the steroid for the androgen receptor is greatly enhanced[i]. Nandrolone thus displays approximately 2-3 times greater affinity for the androgen receptor compared to testosterone, yet its ability to promote muscle growth seems to be considerably lower than testosterone at an equal dosage. One discussed possibility for this occurrence is the reduced androgenic potency of nandrolone. While testosterone converts to the more active steroid dihydrotestosterone (3-4 times greater AR affinity) upon interaction with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme in various androgenic target tissues such as the skin, scalp, prostate, CNS and liver, nandrolone drops to a third of its original potency by converting to the weak steroid dihydronandrolone[ii]. However this action is very site specific, and in muscle tissue nandrolone dominates as the active form of the steroid. Therefore this explanation may not suffice.

Nandrolone also differs from testosterone in its ability to be converted by the aromatase enzyme to estradiol (an active estrogen). In comparison, nandrolone aromatizes at approximately 20% of the rate testosterone does, and as such is not known as a very estrogenic steroid. It is likewise favored when reduced estrogenic side effects such as water retention, fat deposition and gynecomastia are desired. However athletes know that there is a trade off with the reduced tendency for nandrolone to promote side effects, in that it is a less anabolic steroid. With its known high affinity for the AR in muscle tissue, could this suggest that estrogen may also be a key mediator of muscle growth?

When we look at Primobolan® (methenolone) we see a similar trend. Methenolone is at least as good a binder of the androgen receptor as testosterone. By some accounts it is on par with nandrolone[iii]. However it is known to be much weaker than both steroids at promoting muscle growth. We know that methenolone does not interact with 5-alpha reductase, and as such its affinity for the AR does not increase or decrease in androgen target tissues. This would logically seem like a more favorable trait for anabolism over the weakening we see with nandrolone. However methenolone is a markedly weaker anabolic, and requires relatively high doses to promote growth. This also brings into question the role of 5-alpha reductase in promoting an anabolic state. Perhaps the fact that Primobolan® is a non-aromatizable steroid is more relevant.

Estrogen and GH/IGF-1
To date the most common explanation for why anti-estrogens may be slightly counterproductive to growth in the sports literature has been the suggestion that estrogen plays a role in the production of growth hormone and IGF-1. IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1, formerly known as somatomedin C) is of course an anabolic product released primarily in the liver via GH stimulus. IGF-1 is responsible for the growth promoting effects (increased nitrogen retention, cell proliferation) we associate with growth hormone therapy. We do know that women have higher levels of growth hormone than men, and also that GH secretion varies over the course of the menstrual cycle in direct correlation with estrogen levels[iv]. Estrogen is likewise often looked at as a key trigger in the release of GH in women under normal physiological situations.

It is also suggested that the aromatization of androgens to estrogens in men plays an important role in the release and production of GH and IGF-1. This was evidenced by a 1993 study of hypogonadal men, comparing the effects of testosterone replacement therapy on GH and IGF-1 levels with and without the addition of tamoxifen[v]. When the anti-estrogen tamoxifen was given, GH and IGF-1 levels were notably suppressed, while both values were elevated with the administration of testosterone enanthate alone. Another study has shown 300mg of testosterone enanthate weekly (which elevated estradiol levels) to cause a slight IGF-1 increase in normal men, whereas 300mg weekly of nandrolone decanoate (a poor substrate for aromatase that caused a lowering of estradiol levels in this study) would not elevate IGF-1 levels[vi]. Yet another study shows that GH and IGF-1 secretion is increased with testosterone administration on males with delayed puberty, while dihydrotestosterone (non-aromatizable) seems to suppress GH and IGF-1 secretion, presumably due to its strong anti-estrogenic/gonadotropin suppressing action[vii]. All of these studies seem to support a direct, estrogen-dependant mechanism for GH and/or IGF-1 release in men. It is difficult to say at this point just how important estrogen is to IGF-1 production as it relates to the promotion of anabolism in the steroid using athlete, however it remains an interesting subject to investigate.

Glucose Utilization and Estrogen
Estrogen may play an even more vital role in promoting an anabolic state by affecting glucose utilization in muscle tissue. This occurs via an altering the level of available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase. G6PD is an important enzyme in the support anabolism, as it is directly tied to the use of glucose for muscle growth and recuperation[viii] [ix]. During the period of regeneration after skeletal muscle damage, levels of G6PD are shown to rise dramatically. G6PD enzyme plays a vital role in what is known as the pentose phosphate pathway, and as such this rise is believed to enhance the PPP related process in which nucleic acids and lipids are synthesized in cells; fostering the repair of muscle tissue.

A 1980 study at the University of Maryland has shown that levels of glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase rise after administration of testosterone propionate, and further that the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is directly responsible for this increase.[x] In this study neither dihydrotestosterone nor fluoxymesterone could mimic the affect of testosterone propionate on levels of G6PD, an affect that was also blocked by the addition of the potent anti-aromatase 4-hydroxyandrostenedione to testosterone. 17-beta estradiol administration caused a similar increase in G6PD, which was not noticed when its inactive estrogen isomer 17-alpha estradiol (unable to bind the estrogen receptor) was given. An anti-androgen could also not block the positive action of testosterone. This study provides one of the first palatable explanations for a direct and positive effect of estrogen on muscle tissue.

What does this all mean?
It is a long held belief among athletes that estrogen maintenance drugs can slightly hinder muscle gains during steroid therapy with a strong aromatizable steroid such as testosterone. Whether or not we have plausibly explained this remains to be seen, however the above evidence certainly does provide strong support for a direct and positive affect of estrogen on growth. Does this mean we should abandon estrogen maintenance drugs? I don’t think that should be the case. It is important to remember that estrogen can deliver many unwanted effects such as increased water retention, fat deposition and the development of female breast tissue when it becomes too active in the male body. Clearly if we plan a high-dose cycle with an aromatizable steroid, anti-estrogens will be an important inclusion. However we cannot ignore the suggestion of using estrogen maintenance drugs only when they are necessary to combat visible side effects during mild to moderately dosed cycles, especially if bulk is the ultimate goal of the athlete.

References
1. Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men. Vermeulen, Comhaire. Fertil and Steril 29 (1978) 320-7

2. Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro. Adashi EY, Hsueh AJ, Bambino TH, Yen SS. Am J Physiol 1981 Feb;240(2):E125-30

3. The effect of clomiphene citrate on sex hormone binding globulin in normospermic and oligozoospermic men. Adamopoulos, Kapolla et al. Int J Androl 4 (1981) 639-45

Baal
02-09-2009, 08:31 AM
Post Cycle Therapy

NEW: Would you like to post one or more of your successful post cycle therapy regimens? If so, please do so here. Thank you!

Goals of post cycle therapy: Stimulation of the HPTA (Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis)

SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) - Block estrogen from acting on tissue.

Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)
10mg tablets = 15.2mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 10mg of tamoxifen.
20mg tablets = 30.4mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 20mg of tamoxifen.

Raloxifene - Raloxifene is a selective estrogen receptor modulator that produces both estrogen-agonistic effects on bone and lipid metabolism and estrogen-antagonistic effects on uterine endometrium and breast tissue.

Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid, Serophene) - Clomid is capable of reacting with all of the tissues in the body that have estrogen receptors. It influences the way that the four hormones GnRH, FSH, LH and estradiol, relate and interrelate. It appears that Clomid fools the body into believing that the estrogen level is low. This altered feedback information causes the hypothalamus to make and release more gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which in turn causes the pituitary to make and release more FSH and LH. More follicle stimulating hormone and more luteinizing hormone should result in increased testosterone production.

Droloxifine (experimental)

Idoxifene (experimental)

Toremifene Citrate (experimental) - Less toxic than tamoxifen citrate and better on lipids and bone density. Discussions: 1 2



AIs (Aromatase Inhibitors): Aromatase is the enzyme that causes the conversion of testosterone into estradiol and androstenedione into estrone. Aromatase inhibitors lower the amount of estrogen in post-menopausal women who have hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. The hormone estrogen delivers growth signals to the hormone receptors. With less estrogen in the body, the hormone receptors receive fewer growth signals, and cancer growth can be slowed down or stopped.

6-OXO (chemical name: 3,6,17-androstenetrione) - A suicide inhibitor of aromatase. Binds to the aromatase enzyme in a permanent and irreversible manner, rendering it inactive. The result of this is an eventual diminishment of aromatase enzyme in the body and a concomitant reduction in estrogen levels. A corresponding increase in testosterone production is usually experienced as well.

Arimidex (chemical name: anastrozole) - Type 2 "non-steroidal inhibitors." They also stop the activity of the aromatase enzyme, but not permanently.

Letrozole (Femara) - An oral, anti-estrogen drug used for treating postmenopausal women with breast cancer. Letrozole prohibits the enzyme in the adrenal glands (aromatase) that produces the estrogens, estradiol and estrone. Can be taken with or without food.

Aromasin (chemical name: exemestane) - Type 1 "steroidal inhibitor," which stops the activity of the aromatase enzyme forever.

Chrysin - Chrysin is a flavonoid that has been purported especially in the bodybuilding world to be an effective inhibitor of an enzyme known as aromatase. European Olympic athletes report 1-3 grams of chrysin per day is a safe and effective dose. Chrysin may have poor bioavailability. Discuss

Ester C (Vitamin C) - Has some natural Aromatase Inhibiting properties. 2-4 grams of Ester C per day should be safe.



ATD (1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione): Stops estrogen production?

Rebound XT - Can be run inversely to a SERM. This is best when hCG is included. As the SERM dose goes down and hCG is phased out over a few wks, the Rebound XT goes up. I've posted everywhere on this method. Also, Rebound XT can be used solo for uncomplicated PCTs when stacked with DHEA and Fenugreek for short, oral only cycles (1 month or less). Last, Rebound XT can be used at the very end of a PCT just to taper off of SERMs. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes sense for longer PCTs or when an edge on test production or reduced estrogen is desired long term.

Ultra H.O.T.

Ultra H.O.T.ter

Anastrazole

Letrozole

Novedex XT



Discussion on running SERM inverse to ATD

Estrogen only "rebounds" based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI's like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI's like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in 'rebound' phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI's often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme. This is a typical example of my PCT:

wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 75mg/d
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 50mg/d
wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 25mg/d
wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

Notice I phase the Clomid out and introduce the Nolva later. This helps prevent sides from developing from accumulation of estrogenic metabolites from the Clomid and also acts to minimize the use of Nolva, which is more liver toxic than Clomid. Rebound is very unlikely and estrogen biosynthesis will likely be significantly lowered for 3+ wks even after the end of this PCT. I do long ones, as you can see.

Read the entire discussion here




The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time. Read the discussion here.

Steroid...............Time after last administration.........Length of clomid cycle

Anadrol50/Anapolan50........8 - 12 hours.............................3 weeks

Deca durabolan.................3 weeks...................................4 weeks

Dianabol...........................4 - 8 hours...............................3 weeks

Equipoise.........................17 - 21 days..............................3 weeks

Finajet/Trenbolone..............3 days....................................3 weeks

Primabolan depot................10 - 14 days............................2 weeks

Sustanon.............................3 weeks................................3 weeks

Testosterone Cypionate..........2 weeks................................3 weeks

Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron...2 weeks.......................3 weeks

Testosterone Propionate.........3 days..................................3 weeks

Testosterone Suspension.........4 - 8 hours...........................2-3 weeks

Winstrol.................................8 - 12 hours........................2-3 weeks


Other products to help increase natural testosterone or aid workouts during PCT:

Tribulus, Fenugreek, Forskolin, DHEA, Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Reduce XT, ActivaTe, Anabolic Xtreme PCT, Retain (reduce cortisol), Lean Extreme (reduce cortisol), CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester). Nitric Oxide (NO2), Ultra H.O.T., Ultra HOTTER

Activate - Should be used starting the last wk or 2 wks of a cycle and continued for no longer than 8 total weeks into PCT. 6 weeks seems perfect to me. The first and last week of dosing should consist of a half dose, and the weeks in between full doses. It's okay to take more than the full dose too because it's effects are non-toxic and dose dependent.



Products to help with blood pressure and cholesterol regulation / liver and support:

Liver: K-R-ALA, NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine), Milk Thistle (80% standardized Silymarin), Lecithin

Cholesterol: Sesathin, Guggul, Red Yeast Rice*, CoEnzyme Q10*, Flax Seed Oil, Safflower Oil*, Policosanol*, Niacin, Garlic, Hawthorn Berry (helps regulate blood pressure as well), Pantethine

Blood Pressure: Coenzyme Q10, Garlic (best with high concentration of Allicin), Celery Seed Extract (best with high concentration of 3NB), C-12 Peptide. Also, high-dose vitamin B6 and vitamin C. High-dose vitamin D is also beneficial for Blood Pressure (not sure how, though).



Anti-Estrogens:

Nolvadex

Proviron (Mesterolone)



Basic Post Cycle Therapy:

Clomid:
Day 1: 300mg
Day 2-11: 100mg daily
Day 12-21: 50mg daily

Clomid:
week 1: 150mg
week 2: 100
week 3: 50
week 4: 50

Tamoxifen:
Week 1 (or 2): 40-50 mg daily.
Week 2 (or 3) through week 4 (or 5): 20-25mg daily.

Tamoxifen:
week 1: 40mg daily
week 2: 40mg daily
week 3: 20mg daily
week 4: 20mg daily

scorpion
02-10-2009, 05:18 PM
The best pct i've used was using aromasin, starting on the day of my last shot of sust at 12.5mg every 3rd day for 6 weeks.
I had my test levels checked 9 weeks after sust shot. Test was 17.8nmol/L (9-28nmol/L normal range).
Previous cycle 9 weeks after last sust shot using nolva, clomid pct test came back 6.4nmol/L.

Has any one else had good results using aromasin pct?

BoneBz
02-11-2009, 08:34 AM
Yo if I were to run a PCT after a 10 week Test E cycle (600mg week) That looks something like this ...

week 11-12 HCG 250IU mon/thurs
week 13-15 Clomid 100/50/50
week 16-19 A-dex 1mg EOD

Would I have to worry about any kind of estrogen rebound once the AI/SERMs leave my body?