Dr. Dipasquale Post workout Protein/FAT

[ob205]

He spoke about this on HMR and I was wondering if anyone follows this protocol or has the science to back it up. From every study I have seen it has always been a Carb & protein for PWO nutrition. His theory sounded interesting about not causing an insulin spike.

[Frosty]

The problem would be finding a study that is even moderately relevant to this type of diet. If you're not eating low carb during the rest of the day, there's no point in skipping carbs post-workout. It's for people following a low carb diet for gaining or losing weight.

Very few studies even allow for strong adaptation to the diet. They're usually too short. I've seen some that will go for 4 weeks and show strong adaptation, but for a study on PWO nutrition like this you'd first need a month beforehand JUST to adapt to the diet. Not likely.

However if you skipped carbs PWO you're still going to raise insulin levels from the whey protein.

[ob205]

Well, Here is an article/ad from his website.


Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive

At this time the consensus in the literature is that the use of a balanced amino acid mixture along with glucose or high glycemic carbohydrates taken immediately after exercise and then again a short time later would seem to optimize the immediate anabolic effects of exercise.1
There’s no doubt that the use of the individual and combinations of amino acids both before, during and after exercise has significant short term effects on protein synthesis and the exercise and post exercise hormonal milieu. However, very little research has been done on the long term benefits or drawbacks on body composition and performance of using post exercise carbohydrate intake.
However, a recent study assessed the need for co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.2 The results of the study showed that the use of a protein hydrolysate alone was enough to increase protein synthesis after exercise and that the addition of carbohydrates did not further increase protein synthesis.
Not only is the use of post exercise carbohydrates non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by protein intake after exercise, it can actually be counter productive.
There is no doubt that the timing protein nutrition after exercise is crucial for increasing skeletal muscle protein synthesis and an overall net balance.3 Exercise provides an adaptive response so that the body is able to make use of any nutrition supplied post exercise.
Nutrient intake on its own provides a storage response so that if one is fed or receives an infusion of mixed amino acids after a fasted period, protein synthesis increases, whereas protein breakdown remains the same or decreases slightly, which is different from the response after exercise.
Without nutrient intake after exercise protein synthesis and protein breakdown are increased but net balance does not become positive as it does after amino acid intake after fasting. Because of the exercise stimulus, when amino acids are provided after exercise protein synthesis increases more than that after exercise or AA feeding alone, and protein breakdown remains similar to exercise without feeding. Thus the provision of AA enhances protein synthesis and leads to a positive net protein balance and an overall increase in protein accretion.4
In addition, while the increase in protein synthesis after feeding is a transient storage phenomenon, physical exercise stimulates a longer-term adaptive response. Providing nutrition after physical activity takes advantage of the anabolic signaling pathways that physical activity has initiated by providing amino acid building blocks and energy for protein synthesis.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 2 of 5

Glycogen compensation and super compensation (after glycogen depleting exercise) after exercise requires a substantial carbohydrate load that results in a quick and large increase in glycogen levels in both liver and skeletal muscles. Once the stores are full, or even super full, the stimulus declines dramatically. However, if no carbohydrates are given post exercise the muscle will maintain a capacity to full compensate or supercompensate glycogen until enough carbs are either available through the diet or by gluconeogenesis to fill the glycogen stores as much as possible.5
Because of the over emphasis placed on maintaining glycogen stores to maximize exercise performance, much of the research has centered around the effects of post exercise carbs, and post exercise carbs combined with protein,6 and the effects these have on glucose transportes (GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT4), glucose metabolism, including levels of hexokinase and glycogen synthase, and insulin,7,8 there’s not much out there dealing with just the use of protein and fat after exercise.
The usual advice is that carbs, with some protein thrown in, are a necessary part of post exercise nutrition regardless of diet that you’re following, including a low carb diet.9,10 However, that’s not true. In fact the use of carbs post training can be counter productive and eliminating post training carbs can have added anabolic and fat burning effects.
That’s because the intake of carbs after exercise blunts the post exercise insulin sensitivity. That means that once muscle has loaded up on glycogen, which it does pretty quickly on carbs, insulin sensitivity decreases dramatically.
As you know this statement runs counter to present thinking and research about post exercise nutrition although we’ve mentioned that one recent study showing that carbohydrate intake after exercise is non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by the use of a protein hydrolysate post exercise.
However, the study did not go as far as to state that the use of carbohydrates can actually be counter productive. As such, let’s take it step by step so that I can make my reasons for the above statements clear and easier to understand.
First of all it’s well known that a single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days.11,12
It’s also known that a bout of resistance exercise results in a significant decrease in glycogen and that total energy content and CHO content are important in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen.13
Glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis are enhanced in the presence of insulin following an acute exercise bout that lowers the muscle glycogen concentration and activates glycogen synthase.14,15
Muscle glycogen concentration dictates much of this acute increase in insulin sensitivity after exercise.16 Therefore, an increased availability of dietary carbohydrate in the hours after exercise and the resultant increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis reverses the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity.17
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 3 of 5

Along with glucose uptake, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis also increase. As well, the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel also rises after exercise since glycogen resynthesis takes priority to the use of glucose for aerobic energy.
However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.
By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body’s metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.
This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect.18
As well, the type of protein used post exercise can have an effect on glycogen levels and thus the anabolic stimulus. For example it’s been shown that a fast protein, such as whey protein, leads to increased glycogen levels over slow proteins such as casein.19
In the long run, the optimal protein for increasing protein synthesis, decreasing catabolism and increasing muscle accretion is a blend of slow and fast proteins, plus the addition of a few other useful ingredients.

MRP LoCarbb

MRP LoCarb – Optimal Post Training Nutrition

I formulated MRP LoCarb to provide optimal post training nutrition, especially for those low carb diets as it dramatically increases protein synthesis, and replenishes all of the muscle cell energy sources including glycogen (partly through the gluconeogenic process) and the important intramuscular triglycerides pool, while at the same time limiting fat formation and storage and increasing recovery.
The special blend of proteins in MRP LoCarb, similar to the one that’s in the Myosin Protein blend, maximizes protein synthesis and minimize protein breakdown for several hours, thus making efficient use of the increased protein synthesis that occurs for as much as one to two days after training.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 4 of 5

Since the presence of fat combined with protein and limited carbs does not decrease the insulin response or the absorption of amino acids and protein as it does with those who are carb adapted, MRP LoCarb is the perfect post workout meal supplement for those who are fat adapted and are on a lower carb diet.
As we’ve discussed, the problem with taking in a lot of carbs post training is that it dramatically increases insulin secretion. As well, it also decreases GH secretion and IGF-I expression. On the other hand using protein and amino acids, and other compounds (such as alpha lipoic acid) to increase insulin sensitivity doesn’t decrease GH and IGF-I levels, which then remain elevated adding to the post training anabolic effects. As well, the increase in fat breakdown and oxidation that normally occurs after exercise is also prolonged. The end result is a long term anabolic, fat burning effect that enhances training results.
Interestingly, keeping the carbs low after training, and taking in more protein along with some fat has a dual partitioning effect on fat in the body. First of all body fat is broken down and used as fuel preferentially to amino acids and glycogen. As well, there is an increase in intramuscular triacylglycerol levels, which are fat droplets in muscle cells and provide energy to working muscles in ways that are similar to muscle glycogen.
At the same time there is also a gradual increase in glycogen levels, both hepatic and muscular, first of all through the small amounts of carbs that are part of the MRP LoCarb, and more importantly through the gluconeogenic process in which the body forms only the carbs it needs by making glucose mainly from fats (the glycerol portion) and protein (various glucogenic amino acids).
The slow increase in glycogen levels initiated by MRP LoCarb as we’ve discussed, serves to keep insulin sensitivity high for several hours resulting long term increases in amino acid transport and protein synthesis, and subsequent muscle accretion.
On the other hand, because of its sophisticated blend of ingredients, MRP LoCarb can also be used for those on higher carb diets. Using MRP LoCarb as the base, they can mix it in milk and/or add fruit, honey, ice cream, or other sources of carbs.

1 Manninen AH. Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink. Br J Sports Med. 2006;40(11):900-5.

2 Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5 Suppl):S83.

3 Tipton, KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D Jr, Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 1999; 276:E628-634.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 5 of 5

4 Miller BF. Human muscle protein synthesis after physical activity and feeding. Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2007;35(2):50-5.

5 Garcia-Roves, P.M., D.H. Han, Z. Song, T.E. Jones, K.A. Hucker, and J.O. Holloszy. Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in muscle GLUT4 after exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 2003; 285:E729-E736,.

6 Ivy JL Goforth HW Jr Damon BM McCauley TR Parsons EC Price TB (2002) Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate–protein supplement J Appl Physiol 93 1337–1344.

7 Zorzano A, Palacin M, Guma A. Mechanisms regulating GLUT4 glucose transporter expression and glucose transport in skeletal muscle. Acta Physiol Scand. 2005;183(1):43-58.

8 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.

9 Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002;93(4):1337-44.

10 Carrithers JA, Williamson DL, Gallagher PM, Godard MP, Schulze KE, Trappe SW. Effects of postexercise carbohydrate-protein feedings on muscle glycogen restoration. J Appl Physiol. 2000;88(6):1976-82.

11 CarteeGD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, and Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256: E494–E499.

12 HenriksenEJ. Effects of acute exercise and exercise training on insulin resistance. J Appl Physiol 2002; 93:788–796.

13 Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 1998;84(3):890-6.

14 Ivy JL, Holloszy JO. Persistant increase in glucose uptake by rat skeletal muscle following exercise. Am J Physiol 1981; 241:C200-C203.

15 Ren JM, Semenkovich CF, Gulve EA, Gao J, Holloszy JO. Exercise induces rapid increases in GLUT4 expression, glucose transport capacity, and insulin-stimulated glycogen storage in muscle. J Biol Chem. 1994 20;269(20):14396-401.

16 Derave W, Lund S, Holman G, Wojtaszewski J, Pedersen O, Richter EA. Contraction-stimulated muscle glucose transport and GLUT-4 surface content are dependent on glycogen content. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 277: E1103–E1110.

17 Kawanaka K, Han D, Nolte LA, Hansen PA, Nakatani A, and Holloszy JO. Decreased insulin-stimulated GLUT-4 translocation in glycogen-supercompensated muscles of exercised rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 276: E907–E912.

18 Cartee GD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256:E494–E499.
19 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.

[homegrown]

Been doing it for a while now and i love it personally

[Costco77]

I've been hearing Dr. Dipasquale talk about this on RX and in more detail on superhuman radio. Hearing this toatally threw me for a loop and now I don't know what to believe. lol. I feel like i'm back to square one with post workout nutrition, not knowing what or who to believe. I don't know why somebody just doesn't do a non bias scientific study over a couple months or more to see what is the best thing to have post workout, HOW HARD CAN THAT BE! It's a bit frusterating to not know what to believe, the best thing to do i quess is to just try it out and see for yourself. Considering Dr. Dipasquale is one of the few people that i've herd believe this I'm going to stick to carbs pre and post workout.

[Costco77]

I did give his protocol three weeks until I started to notice that my muscles didn't appear as full and my recovery was much worse or slower. I feel like some workout nutrition 'gurus' just break off from the norm just to be different and promote their supplements. EX: for carbs post workout I feel like nobody can compete with Vitargo until a better carb source is created or found because Genr8 ownes all rights to Vitargo which means NOBODY else can make it or use it in their products, so they think of a way to bash it or say that carbs are counter productive, to promote their products and to keep people buying their stuff; If that makes any sense...that's just the way I see it.

[Costco77]

p.s. I'm not trying to promote Vitargo, I don't even use it. Just a guy trying to find the best way to naturally exhance my post workout nutrition.

[babybull]

Ive been on low carb for the better part of 2 years now....basically Keto, with Sunday cheat meals or carb ups.

I drink bcaa's for pre/intra/post workout and take in NOTHING as far as whey/carb drink PWO. I drink my bcaa's...finish them on the drive home. And eat a protein/fat meal about 40min later. Sometimes its whey isolate and PB and sometimes its 8oz meat/1 cup brocolli,28 grams almonds.

I have noticed NO loss of muslce or performance with this protocol. I came from eating carbs....and drinking waxy maize, dextrose, malto, etc PWO. I noticed nothing except better body composition.

[Con]

I have found pre workout and even during workout carbs to be more useful that pwo carbs but thats just me and i am talking about a calorie restricted diet. If i was purely attempting to gain muscle i would have a carb/protein shake followed one hour later by a fat/protein/moderate carb meal such as steak/potato.

[Abraxas]

How people can get doubts about post work out nutrition,because one man talks about one study in reference to his theory is beyond me.

Do you guys have any idea about the amount of research that is available that supports the beneficial effects of carbs post workout?

Not to mention the amount of high profile trainers and nutritionists that support the viewpoint.

There are surely situations where people can be better of with protein only,but the general rule of thumb currently still stands.

[WORKOUT SOLUTIONS]

Well, Here is an article/ad from his website.


Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive
At this time the consensus in the literature is that the use of a balanced amino acid mixture along with glucose or high glycemic carbohydrates taken immediately after exercise and then again a short time later would seem to optimize the immediate anabolic effects of exercise.1
There’s no doubt that the use of the individual and combinations of amino acids both before, during and after exercise has significant short term effects on protein synthesis and the exercise and post exercise hormonal milieu. However, very little research has been done on the long term benefits or drawbacks on body composition and performance of using post exercise carbohydrate intake.
However, a recent study assessed the need for co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.2 The results of the study showed that the use of a protein hydrolysate alone was enough to increase protein synthesis after exercise and that the addition of carbohydrates did not further increase protein synthesis.
Not only is the use of post exercise carbohydrates non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by protein intake after exercise, it can actually be counter productive.
There is no doubt that the timing protein nutrition after exercise is crucial for increasing skeletal muscle protein synthesis and an overall net balance.3 Exercise provides an adaptive response so that the body is able to make use of any nutrition supplied post exercise.
Nutrient intake on its own provides a storage response so that if one is fed or receives an infusion of mixed amino acids after a fasted period, protein synthesis increases, whereas protein breakdown remains the same or decreases slightly, which is different from the response after exercise.
Without nutrient intake after exercise protein synthesis and protein breakdown are increased but net balance does not become positive as it does after amino acid intake after fasting. Because of the exercise stimulus, when amino acids are provided after exercise protein synthesis increases more than that after exercise or AA feeding alone, and protein breakdown remains similar to exercise without feeding. Thus the provision of AA enhances protein synthesis and leads to a positive net protein balance and an overall increase in protein accretion.4
In addition, while the increase in protein synthesis after feeding is a transient storage phenomenon, physical exercise stimulates a longer-term adaptive response. Providing nutrition after physical activity takes advantage of the anabolic signaling pathways that physical activity has initiated by providing amino acid building blocks and energy for protein synthesis.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 2 of 5

Glycogen compensation and super compensation (after glycogen depleting exercise) after exercise requires a substantial carbohydrate load that results in a quick and large increase in glycogen levels in both liver and skeletal muscles. Once the stores are full, or even super full, the stimulus declines dramatically. However, if no carbohydrates are given post exercise the muscle will maintain a capacity to full compensate or supercompensate glycogen until enough carbs are either available through the diet or by gluconeogenesis to fill the glycogen stores as much as possible.5
Because of the over emphasis placed on maintaining glycogen stores to maximize exercise performance, much of the research has centered around the effects of post exercise carbs, and post exercise carbs combined with protein,6 and the effects these have on glucose transportes (GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT4), glucose metabolism, including levels of hexokinase and glycogen synthase, and insulin,7,8 there’s not much out there dealing with just the use of protein and fat after exercise.
The usual advice is that carbs, with some protein thrown in, are a necessary part of post exercise nutrition regardless of diet that you’re following, including a low carb diet.9,10 However, that’s not true. In fact the use of carbs post training can be counter productive and eliminating post training carbs can have added anabolic and fat burning effects.
That’s because the intake of carbs after exercise blunts the post exercise insulin sensitivity. That means that once muscle has loaded up on glycogen, which it does pretty quickly on carbs, insulin sensitivity decreases dramatically.
As you know this statement runs counter to present thinking and research about post exercise nutrition although we’ve mentioned that one recent study showing that carbohydrate intake after exercise is non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by the use of a protein hydrolysate post exercise.
However, the study did not go as far as to state that the use of carbohydrates can actually be counter productive. As such, let’s take it step by step so that I can make my reasons for the above statements clear and easier to understand.
First of all it’s well known that a single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days.11,12
It’s also known that a bout of resistance exercise results in a significant decrease in glycogen and that total energy content and CHO content are important in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen.13
Glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis are enhanced in the presence of insulin following an acute exercise bout that lowers the muscle glycogen concentration and activates glycogen synthase.14,15
Muscle glycogen concentration dictates much of this acute increase in insulin sensitivity after exercise.16 Therefore, an increased availability of dietary carbohydrate in the hours after exercise and the resultant increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis reverses the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity.17
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 3 of 5

Along with glucose uptake, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis also increase. As well, the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel also rises after exercise since glycogen resynthesis takes priority to the use of glucose for aerobic energy.
However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.
By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body’s metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.
This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect.18
As well, the type of protein used post exercise can have an effect on glycogen levels and thus the anabolic stimulus. For example it’s been shown that a fast protein, such as whey protein, leads to increased glycogen levels over slow proteins such as casein.19
In the long run, the optimal protein for increasing protein synthesis, decreasing catabolism and increasing muscle accretion is a blend of slow and fast proteins, plus the addition of a few other useful ingredients.
MRP LoCarbb
MRP LoCarb – Optimal Post Training Nutrition
I formulated MRP LoCarb to provide optimal post training nutrition, especially for those low carb diets as it dramatically increases protein synthesis, and replenishes all of the muscle cell energy sources including glycogen (partly through the gluconeogenic process) and the important intramuscular triglycerides pool, while at the same time limiting fat formation and storage and increasing recovery.
The special blend of proteins in MRP LoCarb, similar to the one that’s in the Myosin Protein blend, maximizes protein synthesis and minimize protein breakdown for several hours, thus making efficient use of the increased protein synthesis that occurs for as much as one to two days after training.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 4 of 5

Since the presence of fat combined with protein and limited carbs does not decrease the insulin response or the absorption of amino acids and protein as it does with those who are carb adapted, MRP LoCarb is the perfect post workout meal supplement for those who are fat adapted and are on a lower carb diet.
As we’ve discussed, the problem with taking in a lot of carbs post training is that it dramatically increases insulin secretion. As well, it also decreases GH secretion and IGF-I expression. On the other hand using protein and amino acids, and other compounds (such as alpha lipoic acid) to increase insulin sensitivity doesn’t decrease GH and IGF-I levels, which then remain elevated adding to the post training anabolic effects. As well, the increase in fat breakdown and oxidation that normally occurs after exercise is also prolonged. The end result is a long term anabolic, fat burning effect that enhances training results.
Interestingly, keeping the carbs low after training, and taking in more protein along with some fat has a dual partitioning effect on fat in the body. First of all body fat is broken down and used as fuel preferentially to amino acids and glycogen. As well, there is an increase in intramuscular triacylglycerol levels, which are fat droplets in muscle cells and provide energy to working muscles in ways that are similar to muscle glycogen.
At the same time there is also a gradual increase in glycogen levels, both hepatic and muscular, first of all through the small amounts of carbs that are part of the MRP LoCarb, and more importantly through the gluconeogenic process in which the body forms only the carbs it needs by making glucose mainly from fats (the glycerol portion) and protein (various glucogenic amino acids).
The slow increase in glycogen levels initiated by MRP LoCarb as we’ve discussed, serves to keep insulin sensitivity high for several hours resulting long term increases in amino acid transport and protein synthesis, and subsequent muscle accretion.
On the other hand, because of its sophisticated blend of ingredients, MRP LoCarb can also be used for those on higher carb diets. Using MRP LoCarb as the base, they can mix it in milk and/or add fruit, honey, ice cream, or other sources of carbs.

1

Manninen AH. Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink. Br J Sports Med. 2006;40(11):900-5.

2


Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5 Suppl):S83.

3


Tipton, KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D Jr, Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 1999; 276:E628-634.
© 2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale MD, www.metabolicdiet.com Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive 5 of 5

4


Miller BF. Human muscle protein synthesis after physical activity and feeding. Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2007;35(2):50-5.

5


Garcia-Roves, P.M., D.H. Han, Z. Song, T.E. Jones, K.A. Hucker, and J.O. Holloszy. Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in muscle GLUT4 after exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 2003; 285:E729-E736,.

6


Ivy JL Goforth HW Jr Damon BM McCauley TR Parsons EC Price TB (2002) Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate–protein supplement J Appl Physiol 93 1337–1344.

7


Zorzano A, Palacin M, Guma A. Mechanisms regulating GLUT4 glucose transporter expression and glucose transport in skeletal muscle. Acta Physiol Scand. 2005;183(1):43-58.

8


Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.

9


Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002;93(4):1337-44.

10


Carrithers JA, Williamson DL, Gallagher PM, Godard MP, Schulze KE, Trappe SW. Effects of postexercise carbohydrate-protein feedings on muscle glycogen restoration. J Appl Physiol. 2000;88(6):1976-82.

11


CarteeGD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, and Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256: E494–E499.

12


HenriksenEJ. Effects of acute exercise and exercise training on insulin resistance. J Appl Physiol 2002; 93:788–796.

13


Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 1998;84(3):890-6.

14


Ivy JL, Holloszy JO. Persistant increase in glucose uptake by rat skeletal muscle following exercise. Am J Physiol 1981; 241:C200-C203.

15


Ren JM, Semenkovich CF, Gulve EA, Gao J, Holloszy JO. Exercise induces rapid increases in GLUT4 expression, glucose transport capacity, and insulin-stimulated glycogen storage in muscle. J Biol Chem. 1994 20;269(20):14396-401.

16


Derave W, Lund S, Holman G, Wojtaszewski J, Pedersen O, Richter EA. Contraction-stimulated muscle glucose transport and GLUT-4 surface content are dependent on glycogen content. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 277: E1103–E1110.

17


Kawanaka K, Han D, Nolte LA, Hansen PA, Nakatani A, and Holloszy JO. Decreased insulin-stimulated GLUT-4 translocation in glycogen-supercompensated muscles of exercised rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 276: E907–E912.

18


Cartee GD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256:E494–E499.
19 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.


The article says it all. I'm surprised this is "news' to most people :confused:
If you have read Holloszy JO work you will know you hit a saturation point of glycogen storage then you go into an insulin resistant state. Lets not forget that we also have to replenish our intramuscular fat stores. The whole scam of nutritionist / wanna be coaches telling us not to eat fat post-workout is idiotic.Besides that, your body doesnt allow you to "super compensate" muscular glycogen stores very often.It's amazing how a few (I wont mention names) people can be so influential to millions of athletes, but the prescription is wrong. Mauro is right here.

[Costco77]

The article says it all. I'm surprised this is "news' to most people :confused:
If you have read Holloszy JO work you will know you hit a saturation point of glycogen storage then you go into an insulin resistant state. Lets not forget that we also have to replenish our intramuscular fat stores. The whole scam of nutritionist / wanna be coaches telling us not to eat fat post-workout is idiotic.Besides that, your body doesnt allow you to "super compensate" muscular glycogen stores very often.It's amazing how a few (I wont mention names) people can be so influential to millions of athletes, but the prescription is wrong. Mauro is right here.
[/left]


Lol..how do we know that. Do you notice in that article that he promotes his MRP protein.

[Abraxas]

The article says it all. I'm surprised this is "news' to most people :confused:
If you have read Holloszy JO work you will know you hit a saturation point of glycogen storage then you go into an insulin resistant state. Lets not forget that we also have to replenish our intramuscular fat stores. The whole scam of nutritionist / wanna be coaches telling us not to eat fat post-workout is idiotic.Besides that, your body doesnt allow you to "super compensate" muscular glycogen stores very often.It's amazing how a few (I wont mention names) people can be so influential to millions of athletes, but the prescription is wrong. Mauro is right here.
[/left]

LOL.

Look here ,first off it depends on the exact dietary structure for this kind of set up to serve its purpose.

Second of all,it also depends on the pre workout meal.

Third of all CARBS are anabolic/anticatabolic around training and you cannot refute this IT IS FACT.

ADDING FATS ONLY MAKES IT MUCH LESS EFFICIENT.

PLEASE DONT SPEW OFF THIS NONSENSE.

Even with this stated you still have plenty of time to keep insuline sensitivity high as possible when carbs clear your system when your on a fat adapted diet,this is another matter.

[WORKOUT SOLUTIONS]

LOL.

Look here ,first off it depends on the exact dietary structure for this kind of set up to serve its purpose.

Second of all,it also depends on the pre workout meal.

Third of all CARBS are anabolic/anticatabolic around training and you cannot refute this IT IS FACT.

ADDING FATS ONLY MAKES IT MUCH LESS EFFICIENT.

PLEASE DONT SPEW OFF THIS NONSENSE.

Even with this stated you still have plenty of time to keep insuline sensitivity high as possible when carbs clear your system when your on a fat adapted diet,this is another matter.

OK, listen, your right, I'm sorry. I will start feeding my clienst post-workout shakes because its so anabolic / anti-catabolic, and i will remember not to add anyfat because this will make it less efficicient.
If you find that loading up on carbs pre-during-post workout help you get leaner and more muscular then keep doing it my friend. I am assuming you havent read the references in Mauro's article, Im assuming you dont follow the scientific literature closely, I'm also assuming you dont hang out with world class coaches otherwise you would "see" what coaches do and not what they "write".

as for your fat comment, I have no idea what your talking to, can you please hand me a reference.


By the way, before you answer, Mauro and i are talking about fat loss as the main goal when we talk about avoiding post-workout carb loading. if your expanding to other goals then im not gonna debate it with you.
Please remember that nothing is ever written in stone. I agree there can be some very useful times to carb load after a workout, but it certainly isnt after every workout.
If you have any interesting references you would like to share I promise to read them.

[Abraxas]

OK, listen, your right, I'm sorry. I will start feeding my clienst post-workout shakes because its so anabolic / anti-catabolic, and i will remember not to add anyfat because this will make it less efficicient.
If you find that loading up on carbs pre-during-post workout help you get leaner and more muscular then keep doing it my friend. I am assuming you havent read the references in Mauro's article, Im assuming you dont follow the scientific literature closely, I'm also assuming you dont hang out with world class coaches otherwise you would "see" what coaches do and not what they "write".

as for your fat comment, I have no idea what your talking to, can you please hand me a reference.


By the way, before you answer, Mauro and i are talking about fat loss as the main goal when we talk about avoiding post-workout carb loading. if your expanding to other goals then im not gonna debate it with you.
Please remember that nothing is ever written in stone. I agree there can be some very useful times to carb load after a workout, but it certainly isnt after every workout.
If you have any interesting references you would like to share I promise to read them.

Sure man ,as long as thats clear.
I have no problem with what your saying,
because this right here is what most people are confused about!;)

My own opinion about this is when your in the gym I want to create a anabolic environment in all circumstances even when im dieting (this is not for muscle building purposes per se,but to offset any catabolic circumstances that might occur throughout the diet),but like I said that is my personal opinion.

Fats slow down digestion ,and glucose absorption.

[WORKOUT SOLUTIONS]

Found these by accident today so I thought I would post them.

J Interferon Cytokine Res. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Interfer on%20Cytokine%20Res.');) 2010 Feb 28. [Epub ahead of print]
Cytokine Responses to Carbohydrate Ingestion During Recovery From Exercise-Induced Muscle Injury.
Ross ML (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Ross%20ML%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Halson SL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Halson%20SL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Suzuki K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Suzuki%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Garnham A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Garnham%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Hawley JA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Hawley%20JA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Cameron-Smith D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Cameron-Smith%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Peake JM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Peake%20JM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Exercise Metabolism Group, School of Medical Sciences, RMIT University, Bundoora, Victoria, Australia. , Department of Physiology, Australian Institute of Sport, Belconnen, Australian Capital Territory, Australia.
We investigated the effect of carbohydrate ingestion after maximal lengthening contractions of the knee extensors on circulating concentrations of myocellular proteins and cytokines, and cytokine mRNA expression in muscle. Using a cross-over design, 10 healthy males completed 5 sets of 10 lengthening (eccentric) contractions (unilateral leg press) at 120% 1 repetition-maximum. Subjects were randomized to consume a carbohydrate drink (15% weight per volume; 3 g/kg BM) for 3 h after exercise using one leg, or a placebo drink after exercise using the contralateral leg on another day. Blood samples (10 mL) were collected before exercise and after 0, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, and 180 min of recovery. Muscle biopsies (vastus lateralis) were collected before exercise and after 3 h of recovery. Following carbohydrate ingestion, serum concentrations of glucose (30-90 min and at 150 min) and insulin (30-180 min) increased (P < 0.05) above pre-exercise values. Serum myoglobin concentration increased ( approximately 250%; P < 0.05) after both trials. In contrast, serum cytokine concentrations were unchanged throughout recovery in both trials. Muscle mRNA expression for IL-8 (6.4-fold), MCP-1 (4.7-fold), and IL-6 (7.3-fold) increased substantially after carbohydrate ingestion. TNF-alpha mRNA expression did not change after either trial. Carbohydrate ingestion during early recovery from exercise-induced muscle injury may promote proinflammatory reactions within skeletal muscle.

Metabolism. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Metabolism.' );) 2010 Feb 13. [Epub ahead of print]
Influence of macronutrient intake and anthropometric characteristics on plasma insulin after eccentric exercise.

Miles MP (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Miles%20MP%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Depner CM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Depner%20CM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kirwan RD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kirwan%20RD%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Frederickson SJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Frederickson%20SJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Health and Human Development, Montana State University, Box 173540, Bozeman, MT 59717, USA.
To increase understanding of the interaction between macronutrients and insulin resistance (IR), this study sought to determine the influence of macronutrient intake and anthropometric differences on IR and inflammation responses to eccentric resistance exercise. Men and women (n = 12, 19-36 years old) participated in a crossover study and completed 6 sets of 10 unilateral maximal eccentric contractions of the elbow flexors and extensors followed by controlled diet conditions for the first 8 hours postexercise of carbohydrate/fat/protein proportions of either 75%/15%/10% (CHO) or 6%/70%/24% (FAT/PRO). Fasting glucose, insulin, homeostatic model assessment (HOMA) variables, and interleukin (IL)-1beta were measured preexercise and 23 hours postexercise (additional measures of glucose and insulin 1 hour after meals consumed 0.5, 3, and 7 hours postexercise). Insulin increased more (P < .01) in the CHO compared with the FAT/PRO condition at 1.5, 4, and 8 hours postexercise. Insulin, HOMA-IR, and HOMA-beta-cell function increased 23 hours postexercise in both conditions, whereas IL-1beta increased 23 hours postexercise only in the CHO condition. Magnitude of change (Delta) for these variables associated positively with body mass index (BMI) and waist to hip ratio (WHR) in the CHO and inversely in the FAT/PRO condition; that is, r = 0.53 (P = .10) and r = -0.82 (P < .01) for BMI vs Delta insulin in CHO and FAT/PRO conditions, respectively. The Delta IL-1beta associated with BMI (r = 0.62, P < .05) and WHR (r = 0.84, P < .01) in the CHO condition. The CHO enhanced IR and inflammation as BMI and WHR increased, whereas fat and protein enhanced IR as BMI and WHR decreased. Thus, BMI and WHR may need to be taken into account in the development of nutritional strategies to prevent IR. Copyright © 2010. Published by Elsevier Inc.

[WILDMAN]

Dr. Dipasquale is not just saying no carbs post work out he is saying, no carbs until the next morning. Damn that guy does not communicate well, or maybe all the missing facts is a good indication he does not know what he is talking about.
It is proven that Insulin suppress the 11-h enzyme(cortisol), It is proven that a higher insulin release creates more igf-1. What has he proven with one, or two tests? I bet his shitty protein mixture, spikes insulin to a significant degree, and he does not even know it. To miss post work out carbs for that one meal was worth a shot. But no carbs for the rest of the night, is far to difficult to put on mass. I will go with my first instinct, I do not trust Dr.s for the most part.

[DannyG]

Dr. Scott Connelly also says to go without the carbs post workout so maybe these guys are onto something. I'm trying to lose fat right now so i've been trying it out and so far I have not noticed a decrease in performance.

[WILDMAN]

Most of Dr. Pasquale's supplements look like poorly designed kitchen sink formulas. The protein he is suggesting already has some carbs in it and it will definitely cause a insulin spike. With added glutamine, when ingested will spike insulin like Glucose.There is to many holes in his theory, when you are taking in carbs 6+ times you are obviously decreasing insulin sensitivity, no break through there. The other anabolic properties, and benefits with taking in carbs the rest of the night far out weigh a little decrease in insulin sensitivity.He has lost my respect, and is not worth listening to as far as I AM concerned.

[ob205]

I know I use to do the other end of the spectrum advised by Charles Poliquin when I was trying to gain mass 300g of CHO and 40g protein, I always felt super bloated and I think it spilled over into fat to easily. Now, just trying to stay lean I am avoiding carbs for about 3-4 hours post workout and like the feeling much better.

[Abraxas]

Most of Dr. Pasquale's supplements look like poorly designed kitchen sink formulas. The protein he is suggesting already has some carbs in it and it will definitely cause a insulin spike. With added glutamine, when ingested will spike insulin like Glucose.There is to many holes in his theory, when you are taking in carbs 6+ times you are obviously decreasing insulin sensitivity, no break through there. The other anabolic properties, and benefits with taking in carbs the rest of the night far out weigh a little decrease in insulin sensitivity.He has lost my respect, and is not worth listening to as far as I AM concerned.

Yes exactly I agree 100%,I deff would never cut out carbs for that long,that is just borderline ridiculous.

[Costco77]

Yes exactly I agree 100%,I deff would never cut out carbs for that long,that is just borderline ridiculous.
Originally Posted by WILDMAN http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=925012#post925012)
Most of Dr. Pasquale's supplements look like poorly designed kitchen sink formulas. The protein he is suggesting already has some carbs in it and it will definitely cause a insulin spike. With added glutamine, when ingested will spike insulin like Glucose.There is to many holes in his theory, when you are taking in carbs 6+ times you are obviously decreasing insulin sensitivity, no break through there. The other anabolic properties, and benefits with taking in carbs the rest of the night far out weigh a little decrease in insulin sensitivity.He has lost my respect, and is not worth listening to as far as I AM concerned.


Maruo has high quality products...the problem is that they're more expensive than MuscleTech, otherwise I would be a buyer. Mauro is a very smart guy and his statement about post-workout carbs being counter productive is supported by credible scientific data. I've been without carbs 5 days a week including post-workout carbs and I think the results have been great!

[WILDMAN]

Maruo has high quality products...the problem is that they're more expensive than MuscleTech, otherwise I would be a buyer. Mauro is a very smart guy and his statement about post-workout carbs being counter productive is supported by credible scientific data. I've been without carbs 5 days a week including post-workout carbs and I think the results have been great!

I can point out A major flaw in nearly every single formulation he has designed. Just as I have with his insulin sensitivity theory, and his protein , it will definitely cause a insulin spike. Also as I pointed out, it is a no brainer that eating carbs 6X, or more per day will decrease insulin sensitivity. He did not discover anything there , that is just stating the obvious. Were do you draw the line in what he is saying? Eat 5 meals loaded with carbs, go work out followed by protein,and fat with no carbs(definitly not his protein)and go to bed, and insulin sensitivity is magically restored? Bull Shit!