some questiions

[shana]

Hey wanted to know:

what does injecting b12 do?
what are your thoughts on doing a cycle of anavar after 6 weeks post op to assist you with gains when returning to the gym?
can you take anavar with dhea?

[tammyp]

im going to leave sassy to answer this....

but im sure she'll ask..post op from what?

[sassy69]

Hey wanted to know:

what does injecting b12 do?
what are your thoughts on doing a cycle of anavar after 6 weeks post op to assist you with gains when returning to the gym?
can you take anavar with dhea?

Recalling I'm not a doc, here's the general on these:

B12 - see the below refs on what you'd use B12 for / not for - you don't give a context for why you are asking the question so I can't tell if it will do whatever you are looking for. Anecdotally, I hear it will make you hungry. You hear about guys who use B12 shots on a bulker because it increases appetite.

Var - for 6 weeks - why 6 weeks? What it will do is help recover - in fact you might start using it post-op. When you talk about "gains", on a short cycle like 6 weeks, it will be limited. Low dose, longer cycles work well for women. I don't know why you chose 6 weeks - if due to available resources, or whatever - I wouldn't expect amazing results - but it would help your recovery. Also you don't mention dose - noting that "More" for shorter period of time isnt' equivalent to lower dose for longer period of time for women. (Men use shorter cycles because exogenous test sources will turn off their natural test production, which can introduce the need to kick start it after. Women don't have this issue, and tend to work better w/ lower doses instead of aggressive doses to manage sides, and also longer cycles. Also longer cycles means that much longer your body is spending adapting to the changes due to the cycle, meaning to a certain degree, easier maintenance of gains. There are exceptions to this statement but for the purpose of the less aggressive compounds like var, it applies.)

Var + DHEA - the first question is why DHEA? Are you on it now? And if yes, why? (See 3rd ref below - great discussion of what & why for DHEA & women). I think Var + DHEA is a bit redundant as both are working towards increasing the level of test in your system. YOu could either drop the DHEA during the var cycle and pick it up afterwards if its something you're using e.g. for adrenal fatigue / low natural DHEA levels, or run the two together and see how you respond. You might notice an increase in acne and other steroid-related sides due to higher test levels. Note that Var takes 10-14 days to "show" itself so you'd need to wait around that long to see how it all works together in terms of sides. You could always drop the dhea for the duration of the cycle if you wanted.

[sassy69]

Some refs:

The Advantages Of B12 Injections

The best way to beat the lack of vitamin B12 in the human organism is by using injections. There are on the market various oral supplements with cobalamin and nasal sprays, but still, the injections with vitamin B12 are the most effective method to cure the deficiency.

People that need vitamin B12 treatment are generally those suffering from pernicious anemia. Their bodies are unable to extract all the necessary vitamin B12 from the foods they are eating and, therefore, they need treatment to avoid the deficiency. Even if there are many products that can be taken orally in order to treat the lack of vitamin B12, most physicians agree that injections are better than the oral substitutes.

It has been discovered that a doze of 1-2 mg of cobalamin injections per day is enough to assure the necessary vitamin in the human body. Oral multivitamins contain about 25 mcg of B12, but it is not conclusive if this quantity is enough to correct the deficiency. Oral supplements are easier to take, they are safe and inexpensive and they contain 100-200 micrograms of B12, but they are not well absorbed by the organism, since they cannot be chewed.

Senior citizens are often suffering from the lack of vitamin B12 in their bodies. They do not necessarily have pernicious anemia and the deficiency is caused mostly by age. Once the body gets older, vitamin B12 is not so well extracted from foods and absorbed by the organism due to the lack of acidity in the stomach. For them, the best solution to get the necessary intake of vitamin B12 is through intramuscular injections. These injections have another great role. Researchers believe that they can act as a cure for neurological disorders like progressive memory loss and lethargy.

To get the same amount of vitamin B12 to be absorbed by the body as through injections, the patient needs to take a large dose of oral supplements, around 500-1000 micrograms every day. Instead, it is best to make an intramuscular injection at a dosage of 1 mg per month. Another great role of the vitamin in the injections is that it lowers the homocysteine levels in the blood, helping reduce the risk of heart diseases and strokes.

Vitamin B12 injections are not used only to cure the deficiency of the vitamin in the body. They can also be used for therapeutic purposes. Through cobalamin, injections can energize the body and release anti-stress elements in the body. It is well known that vitamin B12 injections are used successfully in treating the chronic fatigue syndrome. The patient takes 60-70 mg dose of vitamin B12 intramuscular injection per week, during a period of three weeks, with good results.

About The Author:
Frederic Haislip is the Editor and Publisher of Article Click. For more FREE articles (http://www.articleclick.com/) for your ezine and websites visit - http://www.articleclick.com (http://www.articleclick.com/)

[sassy69]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-b12-injections/AN01400


Question

Vitamin B-12 injections for weight loss: Do they work?

Are vitamin B-12 injections helpful for weight loss?

Answer

from Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D.

There's no evidence that vitamin B-12 in any form — including vitamin B-12 injections — enhances weight loss. One study published in 2005 suggested that people who took a number of different supplements, including vitamin B-12, gained weight more slowly over a 10-year period than did those who took no supplements. However, many factors must be considered when interpreting the study results, including the fact that people who take dietary supplements tend to be more health conscious — which may contribute to better weight management.
If you're hoping to lose weight, resist the lure of quick and easy solutions. What counts is a healthy lifestyle. Enjoy healthier foods and include physical activity in your daily routine.

[sassy69]

http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/dhea.aspx

Adrenal fatigue
DHEA and adrenal fatigue

by Marcelle Pick, OB/GYN NP
http://www.womentowomen.com/images/common/Marcelle_140s.jpg
Two months ago, Lisa, a 28-year-old mom, came to see me. She was so worn out from mothering two kids and working full-time she couldn’t get out of bed. Just driving to our practice took everything she had. Her tests revealed severe adrenal fatigue (http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/default.aspx) and, as so often occurs in these cases, very low levels of an important hormone called DHEA.
DHEA is a natural steroid and precursor hormone produced by the adrenals. It’s also available at health food stores and on-line as an over-the-counter supplement. Manufacturers hype it as a magic cure-all for many things: muscle loss, weight loss (http://www.womentowomen.com/healthyweight/troublewithfaddiets.aspx), osteoporosis, and depression (http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx) — even menopause (http://www.womentowomen.com/menopause/default.aspx). Recently headlines have linked DHEA to athletes “doping” with steroids, leading to a lot of confusion about DHEA, its role in the body, and how it should be used. Now DHEA is being labeled everything from “fountain of youth drug” to fraud — and the very real benefits of DHEA, particularly for women, are getting lost in all the controversy.
The truth is that — for the women who need it — adrenal support with DHEA supplementation can make a big difference. I’ve seen it help patients get going again when they feel like they’ve hit rock bottom. But it’s never as simple as just popping a pill. When used appropriately — in a therapeutic setting under medical supervision — DHEA is a critical component to jumpstarting hormonal balance.
Tips for Personal Program Success
http://www.womentowomen.com/images/tips/partyofone.jpg Party of one. Want to exercise at home but you don’t like videos? Put on your favorite, upbeat, high energy tunes and dance around your house for at least 10 minutes a day. Work your way up to dancing for 20 or 30 minutes. The point is to choose exercise that you love, so you’ll stick with it.

Just ask Lisa. After two months of treatment that included lifestyle changes and adrenal support with low daily doses of DHEA, she feels like herself again.
So let’s give you more information about DHEA and its role in hormonal balance. Then you can talk to your healthcare professional and make the best choice for your individual needs.
What is DHEA?

Dehydroepiandrosterone, or DHEA, is a steroid hormone synthesized from cholesterol and secreted by the adrenal glands. The adrenals are walnut-sized organs located right above your kidneys. The average adult makes about 25 mg of DHEA per day (some more, some less) with dwindling production as we get older. Men at all ages have more DHEA than women.
Natural DHEA production is at its highest in your twenties: by the time we reach seventy we only make about 20% of the DHEA we had when we were young. A decline in DHEA with the passage of time is clearly what nature intended — and as far as we know, a healthy process. This is only one of the major reasons we don’t recommend self-prescribing DHEA through over-the-counter products.
Another reason is that DHEA is a very powerful precursor to all of your major sex hormones: estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. (Its molecular structure is closely related to testosterone). We call it the “mother hormone” — the source that fuels the body’s metabolic pathway:
http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/images/metabolicpathways.jpg
Besides DHEA, your adrenals also make the stress hormones cortisol and adrenaline. Adrenal exhaustion from coping with chronic stress — from (among other things) poor nutrition, yo-yo dieting, emotional turmoil, and job-related stress — means your adrenals are bone-tired from pumping out cortisol and they simply can’t manufacture enough DHEA to support a healthy hormonal balance. The end result? You feel tapped out, overwhelmed and, often, depressed.
It’s likely that DHEA and adrenal function are related to neurotransmitter-release rates, based on the mood elevation our patients report after just two weeks of adrenal support. But more research is needed to isolate the individual effects of DHEA from the hormones it gets metabolized into before we can know for sure what part it plays in all of this.
One thing we do know is that adequate levels of DHEA are needed to ensure your body can produce the hormones it needs when it needs them. In that balanced state your mood is stable and you feel clear-headed, joyful and vigorous. DHEA is the best “feel-good” hormone we know. And it works quickly and effectively when taken with the right combination of support.
When DHEA levels are low, your body does not have enough working material for proper endocrine function. This throws off your hormone production and you feel a general sense of malaise, along with other symptoms of hormonal imbalance — how severe depends on how many other demands are being made on your body at the same time.
There is a growing body of evidence that healthy levels of DHEA may help stave off Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, osteoporosis, depression, heart disease and obesity, but there is still no clearcut consensus. There may be some increased risks associated with DHEA for women with a history of breast cancer — all the more reason to take DHEA under medical supervision.
At our practice we use DHEA where we’ve seen reliable proof of efficacy — in cases of adrenal fatigue.
DHEA and adrenal fatigue

Your lifestyle, diet and stress levels all contribute to the amount of DHEA your body can produce in a given period. At our practice we look first and foremost at adrenal function, using DHEA levels as one of several diagnostic tools.
Think of our exhausted mother, Lisa. Like her, your adrenals work tirelessly to meet the demands placed on them until they are utterly tapped. Without adequate support, they spiral downward into adrenal fatigue and eventually adrenal exhaustion.
Most of the women we see at our practice — and I mean 99% — have some indication of adrenal fatigue, including symptoms of low DHEA levels, such as:


Extreme fatigue
Decrease in muscle mass
Decrease in bone density
Depression
Aching joints
Loss of libido
Lowered immunity

But simply adding more DHEA to the equation is not the answer — despite what some of the popular products claim. DHEA alone can’t fix adrenal fatigue (don’t believe any product that says it will!), but it can be an important factor in a combination approach that includes hormonal and nutritional support, lifestyle changes, and proper rest.
(For more information on adrenal function and adrenal exhaustion, see our article on adrenal fatigue (http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/default.aspx).)
Remember that DHEA is just one stop along the metabolic pathway — it doesn’t work in a vacuum. How it gets converted comes down to your individual biochemistry — some women may use it to make more estrogen, others may make more testosterone. Just throwing a pill into the mix without understanding the bigger picture is never a wise choice. Because having too much DHEA, or converting DHEA into too much of one hormone and not enough of another, can be as upsetting to your body as not having enough.
A delicate hormonal balance
So, you can’t look to DHEA supplementation as a stand-alone solution. It just doesn’t work that way. DHEA is one part of the whole concert of hormones at work every moment in your body. Before you tinker with that balance it’s a good idea to understand what is going on in your life on all levels — physiologically and emotionally.
After menopause or a hysterectomy, when your adrenals become the primary hormone factory, we see women in whom the ratio of DHEA that is converted into testosterone outweighs what’s converted into estrogen and progesterone. This can cause bouts of increased irritability and unusual body hair growth, especially when DHEA supplements are given without prior and follow-up testing of total and “free” testosterone levels.
“Free” testosterone is the portion of the hormone that is biologically active in your bloodstream. After menopause, a woman may have volatile levels of free testosterone at work, which accounts for some of the annoying male-pattern facial hair that’s common during the transition. Most doctors only test total testosterone levels, not the combined amount. Adding DHEA to this scenario can tip the scale drastically.
On the other hand, I’ve also seen patients who convert most of their DHEA into estrogen. In this case, DHEA supplements create a different kind of estrogen-progesterone imbalance with symptoms similar to PMS, including breast tenderness and mood swings. (See our article on estrogen dominance (http://www.womentowomen.com/menopause/estrogendominance.aspx).)
Even though we’ve been trained in our culture to expect a one-size-fits-all drug cure for every health issue, ingesting a powerful hormone like DHEA can be unpredictable — and in some cases, risky. That’s why we advise our patients not to self-medicate.
The trouble with over-the-counter DHEA supplements
Nowadays you can buy DHEA over-the-counter as a matter of course in a confusing variety of doses and combinations. Most of these DHEA products are geared toward men, but I’m seeing more and more aimed at women.
The labels claim DHEA will help us lose weight (http://www.womentowomen.com/healthyweight/troublewithfaddiets.aspx), rev up our libido (http://www.womentowomen.com/sexualityandfertility/sexaftermenopause.aspx), lift depression (http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx), and give us back the strength, immunity, and stamina we had when we were 20 — the age at which our bodies naturally produced the most DHEA.
While on the surface this is appealing (who wouldn’t want to feel 20 again?), it’s obviously not what nature intended. We also don’t know enough about DHEA to be conducting such a large, unregulated public experiment. DHEA is a potent steroid — that’s why it’s been in the headlines and why it should be approached with due diligence.
Without a comprehensive medical test it’s impossible to know what your DHEA levels are. Just because you’re getting older doesn’t automatically mean you’re deficient. Remember, this is a natural substance — our bodies can produce more or less of it depending on our nutrient support, metabolism, hormonal balance, activity level and emotional state.
In fact, there are many studies that show you can improve your DHEA levels naturally by maintaining a body mass index of 19-25, getting adequate rest and exposure to sunlight, exercising regularly (including sexual activity), and fostering more “downtime” in your life — but more on that in a moment.
Also remember that any time you buy a supplement at a health food store you have no guarantee that what you are buying is the real deal. There are few regulations in place to police the manufacturing process or the product itself. (This is one reason we have our nutritional supplements (http://www.womentowomen.com/products/essentialnutrients.aspx) made specifically for us by a manufacturer who tests every single batch.)
Many of the DHEA supplements I see at my local store have very high dosages — way too high for most women (often as much as 20 times what I start my patients on!). While there’s no way to tell how much of that you might actually absorb, I think it’s especially unwise to experiment with DHEA at these levels without medical supervision.
Furthermore, taking DHEA alone won’t do any good if your adrenals are exhausted. There are too many other factors at work. You need to know the status of your adrenal function and your other hormones before you can even begin to know what kind of combination of support your body needs.
That being said, if you’ve been taking a DHEA enhanced product — don’t worry! Just call your doctor or medical practitioner and ask to get your hormones tested — then you will know how to proceed.
How we test for DHEA at our practice
If I suspect adrenal fatigue, hormonal imbalance or a DHEA irregularity in a patient, the first test I order is a hormone panel. I check estradiol in the follicular phase (usually days 3–9 of a menstrual cycle); progesterone in the luteal phase (days 14–28); DHEA; and both free and total testosterone levels. I like to see estrogen, progesterone, and DHEA in the upper quadrant of normal.
What many traditional medical practitioners consider normal is a little low in my opinion. I think there are many women who fall just shy of the bell curve in either direction, but still in the range of “normal” by current standards, who have legitimate health problems. (When such women go to a conventional practitioner feeling awful they are told there’s nothing wrong.)
But I don’t just go by the numbers. I always look at how a woman is feeling; what demands she’s placing on her body — particularly her adrenals — and her emotional state. Sometimes a woman can test normal by conventional standards and still need a slight, temporary boost.
What if you need DHEA?
If tests indicate the need for DHEA supplementation, I start patients off with as little as 5 mg, two times per day. It’s possible to slowly up the dosage if further tests warrant it, but I find I rarely need to use more than 10–12 mg per day — almost a homeopathic dose.
I use only pharmaceutical-grade DHEA compounded by a reputable pharmacy. That way I can be confident that what I’m prescribing is actually what the patient will get. The kind I use comes in liquid drops - I prefer them to tablets. If your doctor is unaware of a reliable compounding pharmacy in your area, log in to the International Academy of Compounding Pharmacists (http://www.iacprx.org/site/PageServer?pagename=lookup_survey)’ website to access their referral service.
Once a patient is taking DHEA, I closely monitor how she is metabolizing the hormone through regular tests and face-to-face check-ups. Many women don’t need to take DHEA for an extended period of time — once our bodies return to balance we’re usually more than capable of making what we need.
Many of my patients in menopause who are taking bioidentical hormones also take DHEA to promote a good overall balance and vice-versa. DHEA can be a great bridge through menopause. Again, once balance has been restored and symptoms even out, most women produce enough DHEA on their own.
Which brings me to the point I most want to make about DHEA — its connection to joy.
The best way to make more DHEA: cultivate joy
As I said before, DHEA is just one small part of a much larger picture — one that you can exert considerable influence over. Our bodies produce DHEA all the time. And it’s possible to measurably boost your body’s own production of DHEA naturally.
Some studies show that people with a positive outlook actually create a self-sustaining cycle of DHEA production: they produce more DHEA, which may affect their levels of serotonin (http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx#serotonin) (the happy neurotransmitter; for more see our article on anti-depressants (http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx)), which in turn gives them a better outlook — which ups DHEA and so on.
One proven way to boost levels of DHEA naturally is to find ways to cultivate joy in your life. This can mean different things to different people but overall there are some common threads when weaving this web of joy:


Connection: Human beings are social creatures — we like companionship. Connecting with family and friends in a healthy, loving way is one of the best joy-makers around. Or think long and hard about what you like to do for pleasure and reach out. Join a local class or group that shares your interest.
Exercise: Moving your body, even through deep breathing and mild stretching, reduces stress, oxygenates your cells, and boosts mood-elevating substances in your bloodstream called endorphins. This process can actually change your body chemistry for the better. Meditation is also useful in this way.
Spirituality: The ability to entertain the idea of some sort of larger power, be it natural or divine, is a powerful component of joy. Rituals of worship and contemplation, from a walk in the woods to yoga to prayer, helps us make space in our busy lives to focus on what is truly meaningful to us and who we really are.
Play: Is it a coincidence that our levels of DHEA decline as we enter the grown-up world of work and responsibility? Who knows? It would be interesting to find out. But one thing is certain: playtime shouldn’t be just for kids. Sometimes I actually have to write out a prescription that reads PLAY so a patient can have fun without guilt. You too have my medical permission: go out and play. Kick up your heels — it’s good for your health!

I know none of this is easy to do in today’s non-stop world. Everything around us pushes us to have more, do more, be more — is it any wonder our bodies eventually throw up a huge stop sign? The best time to foster hormonal balance, adequate DHEA levels, and healthy adrenals is before you hit that stop sign. So give yourself a time-out and check-in. You may find, with a little help, your body and mind are more than capable of taking care of themselves.
The evolving wheel
Feelings of health and well-being are never static. Like all things natural, they depend on a kaleidoscope of moving parts — always changing, always unique. DHEA is just one part of this evolving pattern, one you can influence to create a better picture by changing your lifestyle and taking care of your adrenals(for more on this, read our article on adrenal fatigue (http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/default.aspx)).
As with all things concerning your body, your mind, and your health, I hope you’ll learn as much as you can about yourself and find a medical practitioner you can talk openly with. DHEA should never be taken casually or unsupervised, but its benefits are real for the women who need it — as are the physiological benefits of cultivating joy. I encourage you to embrace the possibilities inherent in both!

[shana]

ok Sassy, where do I send the check, that was as abundance of very useful info. Let me explain, I was going to start it 6 weeks from boobie augmentation surgery, when I get back in the gym for like 12 weeks at a dose of 10mg. I was taking DHEA as a recommendation of my doc based on blood levels and adrenal fatigue post competition season at a dose of 50mg. I like the idea of anavar post surgery for recovery, didnt know I can do that. I am two weeks from surgery. b12 wasn't for me but a guy friend whose coach told him to add it to his pre contest regimen and I was curious the reason.

[sassy69]

ok Sassy, where do I send the check, that was as abundance of very useful info. Let me explain, I was going to start it 6 weeks from boobie augmentation surgery, when I get back in the gym for like 12 weeks at a dose of 10mg. I was taking DHEA as a recommendation of my doc based on blood levels and adrenal fatigue post competition season at a dose of 50mg. I like the idea of anavar post surgery for recovery, didnt know I can do that. I am two weeks from surgery. b12 wasn't for me but a guy friend whose coach told him to add it to his pre contest regimen and I was curious the reason.

B12 injections are better absorption, but always w/ the side that you get hungry, or at least the anecdotal side. If you're bulking, great, if not then be aware. I've always had people recommend B-complex for when you're body is ultra stressed from competition / post competition so I can imagine it would be suggested for optimal absorption.

Anavar is used for treating wasting diseases - e.g. AIDS - this tells you it is coming w/ minimal sides and does produce results so recovery wise, even a very small dose like the old BTG anavars (2.5 mg) would be sufficient for recovery purposes. You could totally run a cycle post op for 12 weeks. If you can't train immediately, then I'd keep the dose very low and keep your diet in order so you don't get "thick" from it (which is how I"d interpret it when you start gaining mass but aren't burning cals enough to stay lean, or if you aren't already lean, the higher bodyfat can start to look "thick"), and then up it as you're able to become more active.

And my usual caveats w/ it - include acidophilus as any aas can throw off the balance of good / bad vaginal bacteria & cause yeast infections. Just one more thing you don't need to worry about when you're recovering. And all the other stuff - tight diet, support supps, get good rest, etc. Don't look for "gains" but rather let your body make "gains" internally for better / faster healing first.

[shana]

hmm. can i PM you so I dont overwhelm this thread?? thank you so much!! i cant thank you enough. I will dc the dhea and switch to ana but my ana is 10mg capsules, is it possible to break them in half?

[sassy69]

hmm. can i PM you so I dont overwhelm this thread?? thank you so much!! i cant thank you enough. I will dc the dhea and switch to ana but my ana is 10mg capsules, is it possible to break them in half?

Eh, don't bother. Its optimal if you can split them, but when you start trying to mess w/ caps, you can't control the dosing and its a mess. I'd just keep it simple.

[shana]

hey sassy,

i think i am going to have to try to split them till i get new ones. thanks again you rock!!!