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heavyiron
01-03-2010, 07:01 PM
Dianabol

Dbol - Methandrostenolone

This was more or less the second Anabolic Steroid ever produced. The first, as we all know was Testosterone, which was produced in the early 1900īs and experimented with by Naziīs in WW2, in an attempt to produce a better soldier.

Russian Dianabol and Team Sports History

Russian athletes in the 1953 World Championships as well as the Olympic games then used testosterone with great success. After that, John Zeigler, who was a doctor working with the US Weightlifting Team, began a cooperative project with Ciba to develop an equalizer for US atheletes. Flash forward to 1956 and enter Dianabol ; the original trade name for Cibaīs Methandrostenolone... but called "Dbol" by athletes. The original package insert said that 10mgs/day was enough to provide full androgen replacement for a man and Dr.Zeigler recommended that athletes take 5-10mgs/day. Incidentally, this is also the dose that Bodybuilders were reputed to take from then until roughly the 1970īs. Yeah, this was allegedly Arnoldīs dose, Zaneīs dose, etc... simply stacked with some testosterone. (For any trivia buffs out there, Dan Duchaineīs mail order steroid business operated under the name "The John Zeigler Fan Club").

Dianabol Steroid Use

Enough with the history lesson, lets get into what this stuff is, and what it does. Well, first off, itīs usually found in pill form, though it can be found as an injectable also (Under the Trade name: Reforvit-B, which is 25mgs of methandrostenolone mixed with B-vitamins). It is a 17aa steroid, which means it has been altered at the 17th Carbon position, to survive itsī first pass through your liver, and make it into your blood stream. Itīll raise your blood pressure (4) and is also hepatoxic (Liver-Toxic), so be careful with it. Although I have known people to take up to 100mgs/day of this stuff and not suffer any ill-effects, and one study looked at that exact dose, and the people involved didnīt suffer any intolerable side effects ( 7). Lets examine this particular study a bit further, though:

In this study, done in the early 80īs, a very high dose of Dbol (100mgs/day for 6 weeks) decreased plasma testosterone to about 40% of itīs normal value, plasma GH went up about a third, LH dropped to about 80% of itīs original value, and FSH went down about a third also (these are all approximate numbers, for the sake of brevity, but you get the idea). Body fat did not go up significantly and Fat Free Mass went up anywhere between 2-7kgs (3.3kgs average gain). The researchers concluded that Dbol increases Fat Free Mass as well as increasing strength and performance. I can only agree, having found this to be the case for me when I did my first cycle (which was 6 weeks of dbol alone at 25mgs/day), I gained roughly 25lbs and kept nearly ― of it. Since then, Dbol has always had a special place in my heart.

Dianabol Side Effects

As with many other 17aa steroids, Dianabol is also a very weak binder to the Androgen Receptor, so most of itīs effects are thought to be non-receptor mediated, and are attributable to other mechanisms (i.e. protein synthesis as indicated by the production of muscle tissue with very high levels of nitrogen, etc... which was indicated in the 100mg/day study). This also means it only has a modest aromatase activity (2).

How strong is Dbol? Well...on a mg for mg basis, most people agree that itīs stronger than A50...but the reason most people donīt get the same gains off of Dbol is that almost nobody takes equivalent doses (I mean...Iīve heard of people taking 150mgs of A50, but not Dbol, even though the dbol would probably provide more solid gains and be less toxic, I suspect).

So how do we incorporate this stuff into our AAS regimen? Clearly, the inclusion of Dbol at any point in a cycle would contribute to gains, however, Iīd speculate that Dbol is most regularly used for 2 reasons

1. At the start of a cycle to "Kick Start" gains.
2. As a "Bridge" between cycles, to maintain gains.

Lets examine these two uses.

Dianabol Cycle

In order to kick start a dianabol cycle, usually what you do is incorporate a fast acting oral like dianabol (or anadrol) and combine it with long acting injectables (such as Deca or Eq with some Testosterone). The reasoning here is that the oral (Dbol in this case) will give almost immediate results, while the injectable takes time to produce results. The end result is that you start seeing results within the first week of your cycle and continue up until the end with the injectables. This entails taking anywhere from 25-50mgs of dbol (although as little as 20mgs or as much as 100mgs have been reported) for 3-6 weeks at the start of a cycle (average time for a "Kick Start" is 4 weeks, though), and then ceasing their use as the injectables start to produce results.

In order to successfully bridge between cycles (and this means using a low dose of AAS, in this case dbol), you need to recover your natural hormonal levels to pre-cycle levels or to within acceptable parameters, and then you start your next cycle. The idea here is that you wonīt lose any gains, but rather a low dose of an AAS will help you maintain them. Typically, youīd use around 10mgs/day of dbol and combine it with an aggressive Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) course of Nolvadex (and/or Clomid) and HCG. This would give you full androgen replacement from the Dbol and a shot at recovering your natural hormonal levels via the other stuff you are taking. Remember, the 100mg/day dose of dbol in the study we looked at earlier did not suppress Test, LH, or FSH to a degree that would make recovery impossible and certainly not with 1/10th that dose in conjunction with an aggressive PCT.

All in all, this is a very good drug, and a potent tool for quick gains or retaining gains...when used properly and safely.

Dbol Facts

[17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadien-3-one]
Molecular Weight: 300.44
Formula: C20H28O2
Melting Point: N/A
Manufacturer: Ciba (originally)
Release Date: 1956
Effective dose: 25-50mgs (as low as 10 and as high as 100 have been reported)
Active Life: 6-8hours
Detection Time: up to 6 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 90-210:40-60

References:



Serakovskii S, Matsīkoviak I., Effect of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells, Farmakol Toksikol 1981 Mar-Apr;44(2):213-7
Brain Res. 1998 May 11;792(2):271-6.
Chemfinder. Copyright 2004 CambridgeSoft Corporation. Cambridge, MA, USA.
Br Med J. 1975 May 31;2(5969):471-3.
www.steroid.com (http://www.steroid.com)
http://www.*****************.com
Clin Sci (Lond). 1981 Apr;60(4):457-61
Steroids. 1984 Dec;44(6):485-95.
Vrach Delo. 1983 Nov;(11):34-6. Russian
Acta Med Acad Sci Hung. 1975;32(1):27-34
4 Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solovīeva GI, Stoianova VG., Effect of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity, Farmakol Toksikol 1980 Sep-Oct;43(5):597-601
steroid.com

heavyiron
01-06-2010, 12:00 PM
The effect of anabolic-androgenic steroids on aromatase activity and androgen receptor binding in the rat preoptic area.

Roselli CE (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Roselli%20CE%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland, OR 97201-3098, USA. [email protected]

The level of aromatase in the preoptic area of rats is transcriptionally regulated through a specific androgen-receptor mediated mechanism and can be used as a measure of central androgenic effect. Therefore, several commonly abused anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) were tested for their ability to induce aromatase activity in the preoptic area of castrated rats. In addition, we determined the relative binding affinities of these compounds for the androgen receptor, as well as their ability to bind androgen receptor in vivo following subcutaneous injections. All of the AAS compounds tested significantly stimulated POA aromatase activity above castrate levels. The compounds that produced the greatest stimulation of aromatase activity were those that bound most avidly to the androgen receptor in vitro (i.e., testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and nandrolone). In contrast, the 17alpha-alkylated compounds that were tested (stanozolol, danazol, methandrostenolone) modestly stimulated aromatase and were weak competitors for the androgen receptor. The subcutaneous injection of AAS compounds increased the concentrations of occupied nuclear androgen receptors in the brain, but the magnitude of effect was not related to their potency for inducing aromatase or their relative binding affinity for the androgen receptor suggesting that androgen receptor occupancy in POA is not correlated with the action of androgen on aromatase. The present results help explain the behavioral effects of AAS compounds in rats. Copyright 1998 Elsevier Science B.V.

PMID: 9593936 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

DanDeats
02-15-2011, 03:12 PM
If you had to choose, what would you go for....

A dbol course at 30mg a day accompanied by nolvadex at 20mg a day

Or

A superdrol course at 20mg a day with nolvadex PCT?

adpolice
02-15-2011, 03:53 PM
If you had to choose, what would you go for....

A dbol course at 30mg a day accompanied by nolvadex at 20mg a day

Or

A superdrol course at 20mg a day with nolvadex PCT?

dbol.Time tested,gym proven.If you run it alone use nolvadex only if you are prone to gyno,if not there is no need.split the dose 3xper day to take maximum effect and bridge to pct with 10-20mgs per day (one morning dose only) to keep most of your gains.Personally i would add some test,just as i do in every cycle but this is up to you

DanDeats
02-15-2011, 03:58 PM
I've been reading that shutdown is faster and harsher with SD - is this the case?

I'll get some nolvadex for PCT. Will 20 mg per day in one dose at night be enough?

Would you need clomid or is that overkill?

Judge
02-15-2011, 04:55 PM
dbol.Time tested,gym proven.If you run it alone use nolvadex only if you are prone to gyno,if not there is no need.split the dose 3xper day to take maximum effect and bridge to pct with 10-20mgs per day (one morning dose only) to keep most of your gains.Personally i would add some test,just as i do in every cycle but this is up to you

how do you feel about adding some Proviron in the mix? 30mg Dbol + 50mg Proviron

adpolice
02-16-2011, 11:40 AM
how do you feel about adding some Proviron in the mix? 30mg Dbol + 50mg Proviron

Proviron is always on my list;)

HammerStrength12
02-17-2011, 11:31 AM
I've been reading that shutdown is faster and harsher with SD - is this the case?

I'll get some nolvadex for PCT. Will 20 mg per day in one dose at night be enough?

Would you need clomid or is that overkill?

I could be wrong, but I've always thought that superdrol was far more suppressive. Obviously its dose dependent, but mg for mg, there's no comparision - 10mg of dbol taken in the morning will barely effect your hpta. 10mg of superdrol will shut you down hard.

nymuscle
04-21-2011, 06:25 PM
If taken for a kickstart for a test cycle,Doing only 20mg a day how would you take those?

The ones im getting are 20mg,So should i just do 20mg before working out?Or cut them in half and do 10mg upon waking up and 10mg before working out?

MadHatter67
04-21-2011, 06:51 PM
^^^this question can be answered if you take the time to read thru some other guys posts about using dianabol.

nymuscle
04-21-2011, 08:20 PM
^^^this question can be answered if you take the time to read thru some other guys posts about using dianabol.


I read everypost ITT and didn't see anything about that,can u point me in the right direction to read that?

Thanks

MadHatter67
04-21-2011, 08:43 PM
ive read a few threads in the actual chem section, not here in the chem profile part, that have the info you are looking for. the general concensus is to take divided doses but with the low dose you are talking about i dont think it will matter.

nymuscle
04-21-2011, 09:14 PM
ive read a few threads in the actual chem section, not here in the chem profile part, that have the info you are looking for. the general concensus is to take divided doses but with the low dose you are talking about i dont think it will matter.

Ok thanks ill check there,and yea kinda figured that

BLUEBARON75
11-03-2011, 02:19 PM
just browsing through the forums and i remembered a question a friend asked me awhile ago. he said that he heard of tren and dianabol being used together? i didnt know what to say because i've never done anything with pro hormones or things of that nature.

GarlicChicken
11-03-2011, 03:57 PM
just browsing through the forums and i remembered a question a friend asked me awhile ago. he said that he heard of tren and dianabol being used together? i didnt know what to say because i've never done anything with pro hormones or things of that nature.

Yes you can, but of course the liver toxicty of both is pretty bad, even though dbols are pretty mild when used in moderation. Test/tren/dbol will get a mofo big, strong, and lean if combined with proper ancillaries and a decent diet and training scheme.

koni15
11-11-2011, 04:15 AM
Hey I am new to all of this and I am thinking about taking first small cycle of dianabol soon. I was thinking 15-20 mg a day? Would this do anything? I am 5'7 and 148 pounds. I am athletic and have played sports my whole life. I go to gym often but can't really gain any weight. Any feedback or help would be awesome. Thanks.

GarlicChicken
11-11-2011, 11:20 AM
Hey I am new to all of this and I am thinking about taking first small cycle of dianabol soon. I was thinking 15-20 mg a day? Would this do anything? I am 5'7 and 148 pounds. I am athletic and have played sports my whole life. I go to gym often but can't really gain any weight. Any feedback or help would be awesome. Thanks.

I like your honesty. Your issue is with your diet, and possibly your training. I suggest creating a new thread in another section (maybe the training one or something) and lay out your current training/diet protocol. Then we can critique it, change what needs to be changed and you should at least be able to get up to a solid 160 naturally with decent diet manipulation. Although I started way too young and small on aas...I was 5' 7" and about 156 way back when I started, didn't know what I was doing, and lost everything I had gained. I also screwed up my natural test levels by not doing proper pct. Like I say though, make a new thread, and pm me where it is. There are some very knowledgeable people on here that are more than willing to help.

koni15
11-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Well diet aside, do you think 15 mg to 20 a day is a good way to start (and won't do too much damage) ?

GarlicChicken
11-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Well diet aside, do you think 15 mg to 20 a day is a good way to start (and won't do too much damage) ?

Okay, I got the point. You are going to do it anyway, regardless of age, training, diet, afraid of needles, and what we say. 20mg/day spread out into 2 doses for 8 weeks will work. You will need an ai, I like aromasin at 12.5mg eod, from start until end of pct. Pct clomid at 100/100/50/50 or you could get away with 100/50/50/50, as dbols are pretty mild. I don't know what you mean by damage, but yes, you will shut down just as hard as with test, and its hard on your liver. Use liv-52, fish oil, from beginning until end. Drink shit tons of water. If you don't eat you won't grow, sorry to tell you. If you don't maintain your caloric intake afterward you will lose everything you gained. Hope you fare well.

koni15
11-12-2011, 07:15 PM
Thanks alot Garlic Chicken haha. I am just trying to get as much information as possible. It means alot! One of my friends suggested 3 in the morning for 3 weeks. What do you think about that suggestion? Also, the only other thing worrying me is the possible hair loss? My family has thin hair and they lose it pretty early. I want to keep mine as long as possible. Do I even need to be worried about it?

toxic Avenger
11-12-2011, 09:30 PM
Thanks alot Garlic Chicken haha. I am just trying to get as much information as possible. It means alot! One of my friends suggested 3 in the morning for 3 weeks. What do you think about that suggestion? Also, the only other thing worrying me is the possible hair loss? My family has thin hair and they lose it pretty early. I want to keep mine as long as possible. Do I even need to be worried about it?
You need to get your diet down first and foremost. Just taking 3 dianabol a day isn't going to do it. Your problem is your probably eating cherios for breakfast, a slice of pizza for lunch and fish sticks and fries for dinner. So you're eating about 60 grams of protein a day and a total of about 2500 calories tops. Learn to get 300 grams of protein down with 350 grams of good carbs from yams and rice and another 100 grams of fats from nuts and olive oils and the n think about AAS. All AAS does is open the door to use the building blocks you get from food to make lean mass. If you can't muster the discipline to get your diet strait then go do something else because you will be wasting your time.

GarlicChicken
11-12-2011, 11:10 PM
You need to get your diet down first and foremost. Just taking 3 dianabol a day isn't going to do it. Your problem is your probably eating cherios for breakfast, a slice of pizza for lunch and fish sticks and fries for dinner. So you're eating about 60 grams of protein a day and a total of about 2500 calories tops. Learn to get 300 grams of protein down with 350 grams of good carbs from yams and rice and another 100 grams of fats from nuts and olive oils and the n think about AAS. All AAS does is open the door to use the building blocks you get from food to make lean mass. If you can't muster the discipline to get your diet strait then go do something else because you will be wasting your time.

This is absolutely true. That's what I was trying to say, but I guess we all have to live and learn.

koni15
11-13-2011, 02:51 PM
I am aware I must eat well (and ALOT), but I guess that just wasn't my main concern about taking it. I am more worried about bad side effects (and male pattern baldness) since I am new to this. I just want to make sure I am not destroying my natural levels with no return in the future. I am pretty sure the dose that I would be doing should not provide any serious side effects. Thanks for the advice!

GarlicChicken
11-13-2011, 03:13 PM
I am aware I must eat well (and ALOT), but I guess that just wasn't my main concern about taking it. I am more worried about bad side effects (and male pattern baldness) since I am new to this. I just want to make sure I am not destroying my natural levels with no return in the future. I am pretty sure the dose that I would be doing should not provide any serious side effects. Thanks for the advice!

The reason we keep saying this is based on your height/weight you don't know how to eat. You should easily be able to get up to 160 naturally if you shovel the clean food down.

But that aside, 20mg spread out throughout the day will be mild and you will get good gains. As far as the MPB goes, if you play with fire you are gonna get burned. If you are prone and you fuck with aas you are gonna lose it.

koni15
11-15-2011, 10:58 PM
Ok thanks, but do you think 20 mg a day only for a short period of time will really have a big side effect of hair loss? ANY ONE WHO HAS ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

GarlicChicken
11-15-2011, 11:33 PM
Ok thanks, but do you think 20 mg a day only for a short period of time will really have a big side effect of hair loss? ANY ONE WHO HAS ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

I am a rare case, but I am running test/tren/dbol right now and not a single hair has fallen off of my head. Like I said before, you play with fire you're gonna get burned. My problem has been excessive body hair growth. Dark hair growing on the bottom of my arms and everything else grows stupid fast, but I knew it was gonna happen with the tren.

koni15
11-16-2011, 01:24 AM
Okay, I got the point. You are going to do it anyway, regardless of age, training, diet, afraid of needles, and what we say. 20mg/day spread out into 2 doses for 8 weeks will work. You will need an ai, I like aromasin at 12.5mg eod, from start until end of pct. Pct clomid at 100/100/50/50 or you could get away with 100/50/50/50, as dbols are pretty mild. I don't know what you mean by damage, but yes, you will shut down just as hard as with test, and its hard on your liver. Use liv-52, fish oil, from beginning until end. Drink shit tons of water. If you don't eat you won't grow, sorry to tell you. If you don't maintain your caloric intake afterward you will lose everything you gained. Hope you fare well.

This stuff looked expensive. Do you know where I can get the extra supplements for cheap?

juiceinator3000
11-16-2011, 03:52 PM
Of you can't afford fuckin ancillaries and products to run with your cycle to keep you as healthy as possible don't even waste your time. You should just sell the dbol u have and buy some food and creatine.

GarlicChicken
11-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Of you can't afford fuckin ancillaries and products to run with your cycle to keep you as healthy as possible don't even waste your time. You should just sell the dbol u have and buy some food and creatine.

This. This game is expensive. Quality over price. Man power research or Indian pharma. I get fish oil from Costco and liv-52 from my buddy's local supp shop.

koni15
11-17-2011, 11:26 PM
Awesome thanks. Also, Would you recommend taking all in the morning or spreading dosage out?

juiceinator3000
11-17-2011, 11:28 PM
Spread the dbol out. Active life is 6-8 hours.

GarlicChicken
11-17-2011, 11:31 PM
Spread the dbol out. Active life is 6-8 hours.

Yo yo ma. Two or three times a day

koni15
11-17-2011, 11:55 PM
Is it possible to get a way with not taking an ai like aromasin if its a small short cycle?

ritch
11-18-2011, 12:00 AM
Is it possible to get a way with not taking an ai like aromasin if its a small short cycle?

get it from a research place if you're short on cash, cheap as shit, you can't afford that, you can't even afford the food u will need to grow properly. so wait until your uncles and ants give you cash at Christmas, then do it...

koni15
11-18-2011, 12:01 AM
You will need an ai, I like aromasin at 12.5mg eod, from start until end of pct. Pct clomid at 100/100/50/50 or you could get away with 100/50/50/50.[/QUOTE]


Take the clomid every other day for pct?

juiceinator3000
11-18-2011, 12:02 AM
Is it possible to get a way with not taking an ai like aromasin if its a small short cycle?

Can you start posting your questions in chem enhancement instead of chem profiles? These are really supposed to be informative. And you would be stupid to not take an ai with dbol.

Dustyroy25
01-03-2012, 05:12 PM
Does dbol show up on drug tests.
For work I mean..
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

juiceinator3000
01-03-2012, 05:16 PM
Does dbol show up on drug tests.
For work I mean..
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

No. They test for basic drugs, typically amphetamines, marijuana, cocaine, opiates. Sometimes pcp too.

Dustyroy25
01-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Ok thank you.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Barrett
01-04-2012, 03:58 AM
I've been reading that shutdown is faster and harsher with SD - is this the case?

I'll get some nolvadex for PCT. Will 20 mg per day in one dose at night be enough?

Would you need clomid or is that overkill?

Superdrol will shut your shit down so hard and so fast it isn't funny. You will never be more depressed in your life then when you get off of superdrol.

The shutdown with dbol is very mild. It isn't that harsh and isn't that harsh on your liver either.

koni15
02-25-2012, 06:51 PM
Could someone get away with running dbol 30 mg a day for 4 weeks with no pct or ai?

GarlicChicken
02-25-2012, 06:56 PM
Could someone get away with running dbol 30 mg a day for 4 weeks with no pct or ai?

I mean a guy can get away with anything...its just really fucking stupid. What's the point?

koni15
02-25-2012, 07:00 PM
short gains? if gyno was problem on a short cycle like this could you add in the ai and use it for a pct too?

GarlicChicken
02-25-2012, 07:15 PM
short gains? if gyno was problem on a short cycle like this could you add in the ai and use it for a pct too?

No. If you're gonna run a cycle, make it long enough to be worthwhile. Use 500 test and 20-30 dbol throughout. Use an ai and do a proper pct. Dbol will shut you down just like test.

koni15
02-25-2012, 07:18 PM
So would you run your ai all the way through and take it with pct like clomid. Or do you stop the ai when you start taking pct clomid?

GarlicChicken
02-25-2012, 07:57 PM
So would you run your ai all the way through and take it with pct like clomid. Or do you stop the ai when you start taking pct clomid?

I personally use adex on cycle now, and then switch to aromasin during pct. Use clomid for pct, and hcg is always a good addition in my opinion.

koni15
02-28-2012, 12:59 AM
How about 30 mg a day for 4 weeks with just ai?

GarlicChicken
02-28-2012, 01:33 AM
How about 30 mg a day for 4 weeks with just ai?

How about quit being a pussy and get some test, syringes, and inject that shit. You have to run a pct if you wanna feel worth a shit post cycle, or you'll end up shut down like a mofo and be miserable.

largesfc
02-28-2012, 01:53 PM
Lmbo!!!!

largesfc
06-21-2012, 11:36 AM
How is Dbol for women?

Big Barry
01-24-2013, 04:07 AM
How is Dbol for women?

There was a guy in the UK putting it in his wife's tea because she cheated on him... the virilization was quite substantial. lol

Sandpig
01-24-2013, 06:37 AM
Is there any legit Dbol out there these days?

bushmaster
01-24-2013, 09:34 AM
Is there any legit Dbol out there these days?

Blue hearts are always legit.

TheRage93
01-24-2013, 03:01 PM
Blue hearts are always legit.
Danabol DS

M4BTEAM
01-31-2013, 03:07 AM
Is there any legit Dbol out there these days?

Dbol is comparatively cheap to manufacture, most batches we test prove to be of a very good potency.

Anavar tends to be the one you need to be wary about. More than once we have refused to resell for companies because they were selling winny as var.

Barrett
02-08-2013, 11:39 PM
Dbol is comparatively cheap to manufacture, most batches we test prove to be of a very good potency.

Anavar tends to be the one you need to be wary about. More than once we have refused to resell for companies because they were selling winny as var.

What companies are these? Keep us safe.

Barrett
02-08-2013, 11:40 PM
How do people feel about liquid oral dbol? Like dbol powder not capped and suspended in everclear or whatever they use..

M4BTEAM
02-09-2013, 01:06 AM
What companies are these? Keep us safe.

Buy from M4BTEAM if you want to be safe, since we don't carry those lines.

We're lucky in that we have two laboratories who cooperate with us whenever we want to test a suspect product. Not only does this protect the customer, it stops us getting conned too.