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DBowden
01-17-2010, 11:58 AM
From nytimes.com

January 15, 2010, 4:57 pm
Testosterone to Fine-Tune an Aging Body

By TARA PARKER-POPE

Can a regimen of exercise, vitamins, supplements and hormone shots slow down nature’s clock? That’s the question explored in The New York Times Magazine this week. The story begins with 51-year-old John Bellizzi of Rye, N.Y., a patient of Dr. Florence Comite, a Manhattan endocrinologist.
Under Comite’s guidance — and at an annual cost of about $10,000, most of it not covered by insurance — Bellizzi has gobbled vitamins and prescription-strength Omega-3 fatty acids. He follows a low-glycemic diet, lifts weights and jogs, all of which is familiar-enough health-and-fitness fare.

Comite asserts, however, that “lifestyle alone isn’t enough” to counter the corrosive effects of aging. Therefore, twice a week Bellizzi grabs a pinch of abdominal skin and injects himself with human chorionic gonadotropin, or H.C.G., a hormone distilled from the urine of pregnant women.

H.C.G. is commonly used as a fertility drug. Comite uses it for an alternative application that’s perfectly legal and, she insists, safe: regular doses of H.C.G. signal the testes to secrete more testosterone, which the body generates in progressively smaller amounts after about age 30.

Read the full story:
Requires registration on nytimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/magazine/17antiaging-t.html?ref=magazine

Baldiewonkanobi
01-17-2010, 12:43 PM
Don't run out to your local diet clinic in the guise of wanting to lose weight hen you are really trying to raise your testosterone. Perhaps our house EndrocroBodybuilder Rick can chime in. I do know that this chemicle from pregnant womens urine can stimulate the testes in a long term AAS user to return to normal production (emphasis on 'normal') while in an off cycle. Has something to do with leutanization and ....ahh...Rick, help me here bro. Also rumored that male porn stars use it to increase the 'flow' for the camera.

Baldie

esplendido
01-17-2010, 03:43 PM
HCG directly stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. Normally leutinizing hormone, stimulated by follicle stimulating hormone, signal the Leydig cells to produce. Both LH and FSH are secreted by adrenal/pituitary signaling.

As a man ages, the Leydig cells begin to "die", convincing the body to reduce LH production. The problem with dosing aging men with HCG is that it won't revitalize dead Leydig cells. The remaining live cells will, in fact, increase their production of test, but not to total previous, healthy levels. Only testosterone supplementation will do that.

HCG is typically used in PCT in younger, fully functional males to jumpstart test production when coming off cycle.

triceptor
01-17-2010, 03:51 PM
The National Institute on Aging just launched a $45 million, 12 location, 800 subject study on the benefits of testosterone supplementation on the aging male. This can mean only one thing... big pharma as getting into position to capitalize on testosterone supplementation FINAL-FUCKIN-LY. The study will run 12 months and follow both subjective symptoms like libido, cognition, etc AND physiologic symptoms like dyslipidemia, high blood pressure, insulin resistance, artheriosclerotic index, etc.

s2h
01-17-2010, 04:06 PM
all it takes is studies from legit sources and BIG PHARMA starts paddn the pockets in D.C. and we get legal or should i say easy access to gear,it's all about the mighty dollar!!!

triceptor
01-17-2010, 04:24 PM
HCG directly stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. Normally leutinizing hormone, stimulated by follicle stimulating hormone, signal the Leydig cells to produce. Both LH and FSH are secreted by adrenal/pituitary signaling.

As a man ages, the Leydig cells begin to "die", convincing the body to reduce LH production. The problem with dosing aging men with HCG is that it won't revitalize dead Leydig cells. The remaining live cells will, in fact, increase their production of test, but not to total previous, healthy levels. Only testosterone supplementation will do that.

HCG is typically used in PCT in younger, fully functional males to jumpstart test production when coming off cycle.

a slight correction here. there is evidence that Leydig cells don't die but become desensitized. there is a concomitant rise in LH to compensate for the lazy Leydig cells. Over time the pituitary, through a constant elevation of LH, runs out of steam and LH ceases to be produced and hypogondism occurs. Its this exact phenomenon that is capitalized upon when using adrogen deprivation therapy to treat prostate cancer. Long acting GNrH overstimulate LH production till the pituitary stalls. I do agree however that there is a point of diminishing returns as it relates to trying to revitalize the Leydig cells and frank testosterone is required.. however.. .with that being said... there is a value to HCG even when on testosterone and its not simply to keep your balls larger.

The testis are responsible for producing other hormones that we are now learning are more important than originally thought. Progesterone for instance. When considering HRT women have been thought to be "complex" and men "simple". we need only testosterone. I predict over the next decade we will be seen as more complex than originally thought. for instance.. you'd ask what's the big deal about progesterone? Its more important to women right? Progesterone regulates the bio-synthesis of DHT by reducing 5AR. When men are placed on clinical doses of testosterone they may develop male pattern baldness, acne, etc.. even though their levels are well within the "normal" range. These same men did not have these issues early in life which leads one to understand that something else may be afoot here. Supplementation without regard to its effects on OTHER hormones produced by the testis like progesterone may be the culprits.

Asmolenski
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
As others pointed out already (some less accurately than others) the steroidogenic pathway is complex. The proper way to think about hormones is as a "symphony": Our hormones interact and influence each other - the end result is either beautiful music, or a terrible noise if someone is out of tune.

As usual this news article is sensationalized. There is nothing new to any of this -- HcG has been used for over 50 years for hypogonadism. I use it for some of my patients but it depends on how their individual body is working. If they already have a high LH then HcG won't help much. Also, there is increasing evidence that HcG, especially when used for prolonged periods, is associated with auto-immune diseases. When used for short periods or dosed twice a week etc it appears to be safe but the jury is still out on this.

The $10,000 annual cost quoted in the article is a rip off unless the patient is also on large doses of growth hormone which can run more than $500 a month at higher doses. A month's worth of HcG only runs about $50 wholesale.

Regarding progesterone I agree. I used to just test my female patients but now I also look at in males as well. New research is showing that low progesterone is associated with erectile dysfunction even in patients already on HRT with high testosterone levels.

Dr Smo

triceptor
01-17-2010, 09:18 PM
As others pointed out already (some less accurately than others) the steroidogenic pathway is complex. The proper way to think about hormones is as a "symphony": Our hormones interact and influence each other - the end result is either beautiful music, or a terrible noise if someone is out of tune.

As usual this news article is sensationalized. There is nothing new to any of this -- HcG has been used for over 50 years for hypogonadism. I use it for some of my patients but it depends on how their individual body is working. If they already have a high LH then HcG won't help much. Also, there is increasing evidence that HcG, especially when used for prolonged periods, is associated with auto-immune diseases. When used for short periods or dosed twice a week etc it appears to be safe but the jury is still out on this.

The $10,000 annual cost quoted in the article is a rip off unless the patient is also on large doses of growth hormone which can run more than $500 a month at higher doses. A month's worth of HcG only runs about $50 wholesale.

Regarding progesterone I agree. I used to just test my female patients but now I also look at in males as well. New research is showing that low progesterone is associated with erectile dysfunction even in patients already on HRT with high testosterone levels.

Dr Smo


Dr S

I have resorted to supplementing with pregnenolone as a progenitor hormone in hopes of maintaining healthy levels of progesterone. I have not yet gotten followup blood work. Do you believe this is a sound protocol? I am currently taking 50mgs a day of oral pregnenolone.

Also another point to take you illustrated concerns with prolonged use of HCG a step further. There is evidence that prolonged use causes a need for higher dosing and once you get to the 1000IU a week level Leydig cells become unresponsive.

Asmolenski
01-17-2010, 11:00 PM
I have resorted to supplementing with pregnenolone as a progenitor hormone in hopes of maintaining healthy levels of progesterone. I have not yet gotten followup blood work. Do you believe this is a sound protocol? I am currently taking 50mgs a day of oral pregnenolone.

Pregnenolone is the precursor hormone to every steroid hormome we make - in fact the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is the rate limiting step in these pathways. In theory it seems logical that pregnenolone would increase progesterone levels (and all other steroid levels) but evidence is lacking. There aren't many clinical studies looking at the benefits of pregnenolone supplementation. The few studies that do exist (one dating back to 1951) suggest benefit for prevention of Alzheimers, improved memory and rheumatologic disorders -- these studies used doses ranging from 30 to 700 mg a day -- so you are at a low dose.

Couple of thoughts. If you are after progesterone why not just use progesterone? Are you on a cholesterol lowering drug like a statin? Do you have low cholesterol levels? Many doctors overzealously lower cholesterol and end up drying up the steroid pathways. Are you getting enough saturated fats in your diet? Although we want most of our fats to be polyunsaturated and monounsaturated - we still need about 10% of our fats to be saturated so that we have enough cholesterol to fuel our steroid pathways.

I'd be interested to see how your blood work looks on the pregnenolone.

Dr Smo

Baldiewonkanobi
01-17-2010, 11:03 PM
Like I said :hypno:


Baldie

Dr. Joel Nathan
02-14-2010, 12:23 AM
From nytimes.com

January 15, 2010, 4:57 pm
Testosterone to Fine-Tune an Aging Body

By TARA PARKER-POPE

Can a regimen of exercise, vitamins, supplements and hormone shots slow down nature’s clock? That’s the question explored in The New York Times Magazine this week. The story begins with 51-year-old John Bellizzi of Rye, N.Y., a patient of Dr. Florence Comite, a Manhattan endocrinologist.
Under Comite’s guidance — and at an annual cost of about $10,000, most of it not covered by insurance — Bellizzi has gobbled vitamins and prescription-strength Omega-3 fatty acids. He follows a low-glycemic diet, lifts weights and jogs, all of which is familiar-enough health-and-fitness fare.

Comite asserts, however, that “lifestyle alone isn’t enough” to counter the corrosive effects of aging. Therefore, twice a week Bellizzi grabs a pinch of abdominal skin and injects himself with human chorionic gonadotropin, or H.C.G., a hormone distilled from the urine of pregnant women.

H.C.G. is commonly used as a fertility drug. Comite uses it for an alternative application that’s perfectly legal and, she insists, safe: regular doses of H.C.G. signal the testes to secrete more testosterone, which the body generates in progressively smaller amounts after about age 30.

Read the full story:
Requires registration on nytimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/magazine/17antiaging-t.html?ref=magazine

One does not have to shell out big cash. I started an age management institute in NYC. I let patients use insurance for meds and for labs. My fees are about 20% of that of the above program. I worked for 1 year with Dr. Comite and am certified by Cenegenics (but no longer with that firm).

I wrtie the interpret your blood work forum on RxMuscle.

HRT, when needed can spark the diet and exercise programs that people are already on. For instance Testosterone will also increase levels of HGH.
This leads to increased lean body mass and change in the distribution of body fat away from the trunk.

Check out www.evolve-medical.com (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/www.evolve-medical.com)

Joel Nathan, MD (vo2max)
Certified Age Management Specialist

GWHH
02-21-2010, 01:38 PM
i saw if it works for you do it!

HeavyDutyGuy
02-21-2010, 06:25 PM
Interesting read, thank you. Theres some interesting directions to go with some of this...