If the competitors could define what the competitions were...

[sassy69]

What would you want to see? For BB, figure, fitness or bikini - what would you change / add / remove? Any changes in the mandatory "posing" requirements? What would be YOUR ideal judging criteria (aside from "consistency"...)

For me, some things off the top of my head:

FBB: I"m actually pretty happy with this as it currently. If I had to describe where I'd like to see FBB go, it would be more focus on conditioning, balance / symmetry & aesthetics. Doesn't need to get "bigger" but "soft" IMO just looks like diet was 4 weeks behind. Its hard for me to say "it should go back to the Cory Everson days" because women have advanced so far beyond that in terms of quality of muscle & presentation. We've also gone thru a down-sizing, which is probably a good thing in some ways, but it also feels like more of an "ownership" of the sport & the prep. I'm not really sure why, but I think it has a lot to do w/ the fact that the magazine coverage and presentation of FBB as a "fitness sport" has been replaced by the Figure & Bikini girls and pushed into the "freak" category. I'm not sure if it will ever get out of that if, esp in the US, that they continue to push Bikini so hard as a "physique sport". IMO it really lowers the barriers to entry and also gives competitors no place to advance to. I.e. if you've been in it for a few yrs & really gotten into the desire to "build", all of a sudden, you're "too big", "too hard" for the sport.

Figure: I'm soooo glad they tossed the 1 piece suits. I'd like to see a move back to some sort of hardness - this "softer" shit, again, just lowers the barriers to entry and gives no place for those who have worked their asses off in the gym, to advance to. I like the mandatory poses, but might actually like to see some "BB style" poses as well - like the International definition of Figure. It would make it more interesting & give more criteria on which to judge.

Fitness: I think we'd all like to see more fitness competition - but I think if they are going to have them, they should have an appropriate performance floor (i.e. padded bounce floor instead of the wooden stage floor).

Bikini: As always, I respect any woman who decides to pursue competitoin as a goal, but I still gag on the T&A show quality of the competition requirements. I wish they would define some mandatory poses and get away from what looks like the nightly line-up of ho's at the local brothel (again no offense ot the competitors - this is just what it looks like to me if this competitoin is going to be presented in the same context, venue & line up as a Bodybuilding show.) I also like that there seems to be some more definition of the suits that are acceptable (i.e. some of these scrunch butt bottoms border on thongs, which are not acceptable in the US federations). I guess I like that they don't require, and in fact suggestion, off the rack suits.

Generally I'd like to see much more distinct differentiation between figure & bikini.

[kimm4]

I like all your thoughts, great post.

The biggest complaint I have is how the level/caliber of competition has dropped. I'm not sure if anyone else sees this, but I'm seeing it a lot of it where I'm from. Women are literally rushing to hit the stage and they're not even close to being ready. Women are hitting the stage with no muscle, they're not lean enough, they don't know how to pose, etc...they're just so unprepared. For the one's that are working with trainers, shame on these trainers who let their clients hit the stage when they're not ready.

I've been competing in bb for over 10 years. There's nothing that pisses me off more when I'm supposed to hit the stage at noon, but don't make it to the stage till 3 because of numerous classes full of people who don't even belong there. I've busted my ass for months and I've gotta peak just perfect and things like this can totally throw off all my hard work...and it's so frustrating!

Now we've got bikini, don't even get me started. I'm not trying to sound like a snob but these girls are sharing a stage with bb's...are you kidding me? Isn't this what Hawaiin Tropic, Fame, etc...are for?

I don't go to watch many shows anymore. I'm not going to pay high ticket prices to go watch S*** competition...no thanks!

I remember when I first started competing it was just bb. There was no such thing as figure where I'm from...I'm old school I guess and I miss those days.

^^All this is a big part of why I'm retiring from the sport, because I hate what it's become.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[flick161]

I think Figure and Fitness should be equal level physiques and the only difference should be the fitness routine itself. A lot of women are winning at the Euros/World's then having to downsize to compete in the pro ranks...

Bikini should then become a middle ground between bikini and figure looking physiques.

Female BB has undergone some positive changes IMO so not really any needed there. Keep in the symmetry and aesthetics! There are some seriously beautiful women in the sport now with top class physiques, that even me, as a natural competitor, would aspire to look like :-)

Are there Novice classes in the States? Cos think about it, everyone has to start somewhere, when I first started I was humiliated cos I was sh1t, but that experience made me understand what it was about and from there I never got on stage looking like that again. Women only go through that because they genuinely 'don't get it'...

[sassy69]

I like all your thoughts, great post.

The biggest complaint I have is how the level/caliber of competition has dropped. I'm not sure if anyone else sees this, but I'm seeing it a lot of it where I'm from. Women are literally rushing to hit the stage and they're not even close to being ready. Women are hitting the stage with no muscle, they're not lean enough, they don't know how to pose, etc...they're just so unprepared. For the one's that are working with trainers, shame on these trainers who let their clients hit the stage when they're not ready.

I've been competing in bb for over 10 years. There's nothing that pisses me off more when I'm supposed to hit the stage at noon, but don't make it to the stage till 3 because of numerous classes full of people who don't even belong there. I've busted my ass for months and I've gotta peak just perfect and things like this can totally throw off all my hard work...and it's so frustrating!

Now we've got bikini, don't even get me started. I'm not trying to sound like a snob but these girls are sharing a stage with bb's...are you kidding me? Isn't this what Hawaiin Tropic, Fame, etc...are for?

I don't go to watch many shows anymore. I'm not going to pay high ticket prices to go watch S*** competition...no thanks!

I remember when I first started competing it was just bb. There was no such thing as figure where I'm from...I'm old school I guess and I miss those days.

^^All this is a big part of why I'm retiring from the sport, because I hate what it's become.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I feel you on all accounts. I think when they drop the barriers to entry trying to get this "softer" look thing, it really just means people are less put upon to produce the best results - i.e. they look like they're actually 4-8 weeks out and the importance of condition has dropped. It makes me gag. I further gag on things like "In the Iron Asylum" with an IFBB Bikini Pro... um I thought Bikini rewarded "no muscle" so why do you need to go in the gym. Further why would I be interested in learning somethign from someone who may have just started going to the gym 6 months ago. (Disclaimer - I never dis any female who wants to produce an amazing physique - but the promotion of bikini & figure .. as defined these days.. as if they are representations of "the top bodies in the sport".. um no. I also feel like the drop in entry requirements actually screws over the more experienced competitors. You simply can't have many years experience in training and have a soft or undeveloped body. That means you're catering to the first timers, which is great for getting more people into the sport, but once they got hooked, there's no reward for continued improvement.

Anyway.. I'm right there w/ you w/ my rants. I primarily compete w/ myself to produce my ideal physique working w/ the stuff that God gave me to work with, and something to frame my passion of just hitting the gym every day.

[sassy69]

I think Figure and Fitness should be equal level physiques and the only difference should be the fitness routine itself. A lot of women are winning at the Euros/World's then having to downsize to compete in the pro ranks...

Bikini should then become a middle ground between bikini and figure looking physiques.

Female BB has undergone some positive changes IMO so not really any needed there. Keep in the symmetry and aesthetics! There are some seriously beautiful women in the sport now with top class physiques, that even me, as a natural competitor, would aspire to look like :-)

Are there Novice classes in the States? Cos think about it, everyone has to start somewhere, when I first started I was humiliated cos I was sh1t, but that experience made me understand what it was about and from there I never got on stage looking like that again. Women only go through that because they genuinely 'don't get it'...


I agree w/ the direction you are going - it would be nice if there was more structured path "upward" to approach competing at the national level. But because there really isn't, you can have people who came in 4th at some local Figure show, who are technically qualified to compete at a national show, but in reality, really just represent mediocrity at the novice level. And yes, then the rest of us have to sit thru them at a natioanal show.

One hitch I have w/ figure & fitness is that if they have the same Physique Round requirements, why would anyone want to have to do the additional, much more demanding work of a routine (and also dangerous considering most show venues dont' have appropriate safety / padded floors for the routines).. i.e. what's the motivation to even bother w/ Fitness then?

I think the ongoing problem the women's physique cateogories are going to have is that there aren't very distinct delineations between them. I've seen Bikini competitors who look better than Figure girls and Figure girls who I personally wouldn't even allow in a Bikini show. The judging is inconsistent between shows and even between categories. If you reward the "best that showed up", you're not enforcing the definition of the category, which brings you back to lack of clear delineation between the categories.

Definitely good input tho! Ideally its a balance between what the competitors / audience wants to see and what brings in the most money. Currently "what brings in the most money" is the primary driver.

[tammyp]

i am with you on all of jill. but bikini has grown on me. i try to look at it this way, the more money the ifbb/npc has, i HOPE it will mean wbbing wont be kicked to the curb.

[Toniann]

I still don't get this softer look everyone is talking about. I keep hearing that but when I look up the shows to see who qualified for there pro card in FBB I keep seeing ripped/shredded women winning. Am I missing something here.

[tammyp]

it figure that changed its criteria, not bbing.

[Toniann]

That is what I figured. I just keep hearing these guys at my gym say to they are looking for the soft look and that I am never going to win.

[debbiebramwell]

That is what I figured. I just keep hearing these guys at my gym say to they are looking for the soft look and that I am never going to win.


lol fbbrs come in shredded and dry...where did they get that from? how funny! figure standards have changed..less muscle and softer look...

[s2h]

i go to sevevral shows in my home state(Texas) and we have several girls who compete in our local group of people i know and train w/ and around,some(my wife) are BB's,some do figure and/or bikini.And for the life of me i can't figure out what these judges want.One girl i know placed 3rd at a local show in bikini and won her class in figure in the same show and then went on to nationals and placed 6th in bikini and they told her she was a little to hard.what the hell is she supposed to think,theres just No define line between what the right look is for what catergory.Ya bikini is bringing more money to the NPC and IFBB but i think it just has no place in either and should be left to Hawwian tropic or whatever shows they have for that type of event.it just drags these shows on way to long and makes it way to hard on the BB females and males who have put WAY more time and effort into these shows.If i want to look at a bunch of lil hottie girls in bikinis i can go to the beach!!

[sassy69]

i am with you on all of jill. but bikini has grown on me. i try to look at it this way, the more money the ifbb/npc has, i HOPE it will mean wbbing wont be kicked to the curb.


That's my view as well - its here to stay so we have to accept it, but I hope it at leats tries to establish a reasonable level of quality, and maybe all of this will push the distiction between bikini / figure, and subsequently get more FBB going.

[flick161]

In the UK (I compete in natural feds); and Figure tends to be the pre-cursor to Physique - i.e. girls say "I'll do Figure cos I've not got enough muscle for BB". Very few actually stay in figure, they spend a few years there, grow, and decide to move up to BB which they prefer with the mandatory poses instead of quarter turns and T-walk. In 2008, they looked at having a ladies novice BB class at the finals, for women wanting to make the jump between figure and BB. It never happened but they did end up with weight classes for the first time ever - a sure sign the number of competitors is on the increase.

In the UK branch of the IFBB, we haven't got to Bikini yet (although lots of girls turning up to do Figure could do it as they're just not ready for Figure and we don't have any form of bikini pageants here).
Infact, this year in Figure, the two-piece round is still currently in, and the girls are doing a routine round for more stage time at the British Finals. Figure is hugely on the increase, but Women's BB was wayyyyy down in numbers this year...

If I had the choice, and skills to do Fitness or Figure, I know hands-down I'd choose Fitness. Even though it's more dangerous with the routine the girls are totally my heroines. I don't think a 20-week diet is rewarding enough to do a few turns and a t-walk personally...

[Curt James]

(snip)Figure: I'm soooo glad they tossed the 1 piece suits. I'd like to see a move back to some sort of hardness - this "softer" shit, again, just lowers the barriers to entry (snip)

Fitness: (snip) appropriate performance floor (i.e. padded bounce floor instead of the wooden stage floor).

Bikini: (snip) I also like that there seems to be some more definition of the suits that are acceptable (i.e. some of these scrunch butt bottoms border on thongs, which are not acceptable in the US federations). I guess I like that they don't require, and in fact suggestion, off the rack suits.

Generally I'd like to see much more distinct differentiation between figure & bikini.

Female bodybuilders would be allowed to go for broke. Each woman has her own potential and should be able to achieve that potential without fear of having points docked for being "too big" or "too hard".

Figure competitors would become the often mentioned Classic bodybuilding competitors. Drop the T stands and quarter turns and substitute with mandatories.

NABBA USA has a Bodybuilding category and then a separate Athletic category. This is how I would love to see Female bodybuilding and Figure competition be differentiated. Arbitrary? Perhaps. But no less subjective than determining who's too hard or too soft, imo.

Fitness athletes would feel safe to perform their routines on appropriate flooring.

Bikini competitors would continue as is. Although I really don't get it as a sport other than a surefire money maker for the NPC and IFBB.

On the one hand: That said, I'd give the Bikini "athletes" the same leeway as the Bodybuilders. Go for broke. Thong it. Whatever. "It is what it is." And I'm certainly not going to complain.

On the other hand: Does it make it family fare or family friendly? Not especially.

[kimm4]

That's my view as well - its here to stay so we have to accept it, but I hope it at leats tries to establish a reasonable level of quality, and maybe all of this will push the distiction between bikini / figure, and subsequently get more FBB going.

Right at the end of the day, it's here to stay and there's nothing we can do about it.

The shows are just so fuckin long!!

I remember the days when they had a bench press comp in the morning, show during the day and everyone was out by 5 p.m. LOL...

Oh well...:)

[Curt James]

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/trenches/2643-in-the-trenches-with-ifbb-bikini-pro-tabitha-klausen.html

Okay, I'll amend my Bikini comments. If they steer the category in the direction of All American Girl (and, yes, that can include International Girls, too, of course) then these competitors could make it to the cover of Wheaties, imo.

I first saw pics of Tabitha on BodySpace. She had this goofy avatar of her chomping down on a 45-pound Olympic plate. (Unless I have the wrong person in mind, but I think she's one and the same.) Great representative for the sport.

:bowdown:

[Carolyn Bryant]

Very interesting perspectives.