Sermorelin???

[apex23]

Has anyone used Sermorelin before? How do you mix it?

[triceptor]

don't waste your money. Use GHRP6 or GHRP2. 100mcgs to 300mcga per injection. One In the morning and one post workout. If you use it before bed use 100mcgs to 125mcgs as it also elevates cortisol just a little and elevating cortisol to any degree right before bed is not a good idea

[rainjack]

Has anyone used Sermorelin before? How do you mix it?

TRT doc has me on it 2mics/ed.

Take 3ml bac water and inject it into the vial containing the peptide. Viola.

[triceptor]

TRT doc has me on it 2mics/ed.

Take 3ml bac water and inject it into the vial containing the peptide. Viola.

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this.

semorlin is a waste of money IMHO. The amount you have to take to get the same results as 1-2IU's of hGH is more expensive.

100 to 300mcgs of GHRP causes a pulse equivalent to 1-2IU's of GH and costs about $50 a month

[apex23]

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this.

semorlin is a waste of money IMHO. The amount you have to take to get the same results as 1-2IU's of hGH is more expensive.

100 to 300mcgs of GHRP causes a pulse equivalent to 1-2IU's of GH and costs about $50 a month


Do you mean add it to Acitic acid?

Do you inject sub Q or in the muscle?

[rainjack]

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this.

semorlin is a waste of money IMHO. The amount you have to take to get the same results as 1-2IU's of hGH is more expensive.

100 to 300mcgs of GHRP causes a pulse equivalent to 1-2IU's of GH and costs about $50 a month


I will have to respectfully disagree. Maybe for BBing purposes you have a point. For TRT purposes, the semoralin is working very well for me.

[rainjack]

Do you mean add it to Acitic acid?

Do you inject sub Q or in the muscle?


NaCl is not the same thing as acetic acid. NaCl is saline solution.

I inject subQ.

[Cooker]

Use GHRP6 or GHRP2.

What is the difference between the "6" and the "2"? Is one more effective than the other?

Thanks.

[Jmuls]

What is the difference between the "6" and the "2"? Is one more effective than the other?

Thanks.

Courtesy of the man himself, Datbtrue, use the following snippet of one of his posts for clarification of the different GHRPs.....



First Generation GHRPs (effected GH release but also gastric motility, hunger, a little potential for prolactin and cortisol):

- GHRP-6
- GHRP-1

Second Generation GHRPs (highly effective GH releasers, do not effect gastric motility, have lower effect on hunger, but have a potential for prolactin & cortisol release):

- GHRP-2
- Hexarelin (seems to have more potential to desensitize GH release)

Third Generation GHRPs (are highly selective for GH release. They do not seem to effect anything else. The GH release appears to be on par w/ GHRP-6 at low dose w/ a potential to surpass the others at high dose):

- Ipamorelin

[triceptor]

Do you mean add it to Acitic acid?

Do you inject sub Q or in the muscle?

acetic acid is even better - peps last 2 - 3 months.. but it hurts to inject.. most people can't stand the burning feeling of AA.

No I meant sodium chloride solution.

Its all about PH.

I inject subQ

[triceptor]

Courtesy of the man himself, Datbtrue, use the following snippet of one of his posts for clarification of the different GHRPs.....

Jmuls is right. DatBTrue has done most of the relevant research on the subject. In Fact even Dr. Crisler has admitted to using Dat's stats in some of his slide presentations.

[Ryan Wacht]

All these peptides are too damn expensive.

[Cooker]

Thanks for the info on the differences in GHRP.

[morb]

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this...

Would you provide some links on this? I just got sermorelin from an anti-aging clinic and they sent it with bacteriostatic water. I have yet to reconstitute based solely on your post. I've searched high and low and what I've come up with is that sorono originally intended it be reconstituted with NaCl (in fact I actually spoke to a representative). But he couldn't tell me why. I talked with so many people and none of them had any idea what I was going on about, pure frustration. It may not be the greatest product but I certainly want to get all I can out of it. If that means ordering some NaCl on my own I'm glad to.

[jacshelb]

For anyone who is interested, you can find acetic acid on ebay. I had trouble tracking it down at first, but good ol ebay came through.

[ypmm5]

Has anyone used Sermorelin before? How do you mix it?

You are better off getting Modifed Growth Hormone Releasing Factor (GRF) Modified 1-29. Sermorelin's half life last 5-10 mins. The GRF mod. 1-29 aka CJC 1295 withOUT DAC last 30-40 mins. Sermorelin is what you call a growth hormone releasing hormone analog. What is mentioned (GHRP-2 or 6) in the replies to your question are now as growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRP). The peptides are a bit more powerful. However, the reality is that the use of both together have amazing synergistic effect 1+1=8.
You should take them upon awakening about 15-30 mins prior to breakfast. Post workout also 15-20 mins prior to eating your post workout meal. Before bed, I recommend taking the GRF mod. 1-29 with ipamorelin (IPA). Because IPA does not cause any prolactin or cortisol increase, it will not interupt with you sleep. In a matter of fact, you sleep much better.
Mixing the mod grf 1-29 2ml of bacteriostatic water in the 2mg vial. This will yield a 100mcg per 10 units using an insulin syringe.
For the GHRP 2 or 6 they come in 5 mg vials. So, mix 2.5 ml of bacteriostatic water into the vial. This will yield a concentration of 100 mcg per 50 units. Because the vials are so small you will not be able to get 5 ml in there.
Peptides are very effective. Taking 100mcg of GHRH & GHRP 3 times a day is equivilent to about 2-3 IU of GH per day.
See the info I paste below. It is a bit lengthy but is well worth reading if you are going to use peptides. I hope this helps.

Brief overview of natural GH release

The initiation of growth hormone release in the pituitary is dependent on a trilogy of hormones:


Somatostatin which is the inhibitory hormone and responsible in large part for the creation of pulsation;

Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) which is the stimulatory hormone responsible for initiating GH release; and

Ghrelin which is a modulating hormone and in essence optimizes the balance between the "on" hormone & the "off" hormone. Before Ghrelin was discovered the synthetic growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRPs) were created and are superior to Ghrelin in that they do not share Ghrelin's lipogenic behavior. These GHRPs are GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin and later Ipamorelin all of which behave in similar fashion.In the aging adult these Ghrelin-mimetics or the GHRPs restore a more youthful ability to release GH from the pituitary as they turn down somatostatin's negative influence which becomes stronger as we age and turn up growth hormone releasing hormone's influence which becomes weaker as we age.

The exogenous administration of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) creates a pulse of GH release which will be small if administered during a natural GH trough and higher if administered during a rising natural GH wave.

Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin) are capable of creating a larger pulse of GH on their own then GHRH and they do this with much more consistency and predictability without regard to whether a natural wave or trough of GH is currently taking place.

Synergy of GHRH + GHRP

It is well documented and established that the concurrent administration of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) and a Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide (GHRP-6, GHRP-2 or Hexarelin) results in synergistic release of GH from pituitary stores. In other words if GHRH contributes a GH amount quantified as the number 2 and GHRPs contributed a GH amount quantified as the number 4 the total GH release is not additive (i.e. 2 + 4 = 6). Rather the whole is greater than the sum of the parts such that 2 + 4 = 10.

While the GHRPs (GHRP-6, GHRP-2 and Hexarelin) come in only one half-life form and are capable of generating a GH pulse that lasts a couple of hours re-administration of a GHRP is required to effect additional pulses.

Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) however is currently available in several forms which vary only by their half-lives. Naturally occurring GHRH is either a 40 or 44 amino acid peptide with the bioactive portion residing in the first 29 amino acids. This shortened peptide identical in behavior and half-life to that of GHRH is called Growth Hormone Releasing Factor and is abbreviated as GRF(1-29).

GRF(1-29) is produced and sold as a drug called Sermorelin. It has a short-half life measured in minutes. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Suspension (i.e. unestered).

To increase the stability and half-life of GRF(1-29) four amino acid changes where made to its structure. These changes increase the half-life beyond 30 minutes which is more than sufficient to exert a sustained effect which will maximize a GH pulse. This form is often called tetrasubstituted GRF(1-29) (or modified) and unfortunately & confusingly mislabeled as CJC-1295. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Propionate (i.e. short-estered).

Note that some may also refer to this as CJC-1295 without the DAC (Drug Affinity Complex).

Frequent dosing of either the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) or regular GRF(1-29) is required and as previously indicated works synergistically with a GHRP.

In an attempt to create a more convenient long-lasting GHRH, a compound known as CJC-1295 was created. This compound is identical to the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) with the addition of the amino acid Lysine which links to a non-peptide molecule known as a "Drug Affinity Complex (DAC)". This complex allows GRF(1-29) to bind to albumin post-injection in plasma and extends its half-life to that of days. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Cypionate (i.e. long-estered). However this is not accurate. CJC-1295 results in continual GH bleed. Although natural pulsation still occurs CJC-1295 does nothing to increase those pulses. Instead it raises base levels of GH and creates a more feminized pattern of release. This not desirable.

Modified GRF(1-29)however when combined with a GHRP brings about a substantial pulse which has desirable effects.

A Brief Summary of Dosing and Administration

Dosing GHRPs

The saturation dose in most studies on the GHRPs (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin & Hexarelin) is defined as either 100mcg or 1mcg/kg.

What that means is that 100mcg will saturate the receptors fully, but if you add another 100mcg to that dose only 50% of that portion will be effective. If you add an additional 100mcg to that dose only about 25% will be effective. Perhaps a final 100mcg might add a little something to GH release but that is it.

So 100mcg is the saturation dose and you could add more up to 300 to 400mcg and get a little more effect.

A 500mcg dose will not be more effective then a 400mcg, perhaps not even more effective then 300mcg.

The additional problems are desensitization & cortisol/prolactin side-effects.


Ipamorelin is about as efficacious as GHRP-6 in causing GH release but even at higher dose (above 100mcg) it does not create prolactin or cortisol.

GHRP-6 at the saturation dose 100mcg does not really increase prolactin & cortisol but may do so slightly at higher doses. This rise is still within the normal range.

GHRP-2 is a little more efficacious then GHRP-6 at causing GH release but at the saturation dose or higher may produce a slight to moderate increase in prolactin & cortisol. This rise is still within the normal range although doses of 200 - 400mcg might make it the high end of the normal range.

Hexarelin is the most efficacious of all of the GHRPs at causing an increase in GH release. However it has the highest potential to also increase cortisol & prolactin. This rise will occur even at the 100mcg saturation dose. This rise will reach the higher levels of what is defined as normal.Desensitization


GHRP-6 can be used at saturation dose (100mcg) three or four times a day without risk of desensitization.

GHRP-2 probably at saturation dose several times a day will not result in desensitization.

Hexarelin has been shown to bring about desensitization but in a long-term study the pituitary recovered its sensitivity so that there was not long-term loss of sensitivity at saturation dose. However dosing Hexarelin even at 100mcg three times a day will likely lead to some down regulation within 14 days.
If desensitization were to ever occur for any of these GHRPs simply stopping use for several days will remedy this effect.

Chronic use of GHRP-6 at 100mcg dosed several times a day every day will not cause pituitary problems, nor significant prolactin or cortisol problems, nor desensitize.

GHRH

Now Sermorelin, GHRH (1-44) and GRF(1-29) all are basically GHRH and have a short half-life in plasma because of quick cleavage between the 2nd & 3rd amino acid. This is no worry naturally because this hormone is secreted from the hypothalamus and travels a short distance to the underlying anterior pituitary and is not really subject to enzymatic cleavage. The release from the hypothalamus and binding to somatotrophs (pituitary cells) happens quickly.

However when injected into the body it must circulate before finding its way to the pituitary and so within 3 minutes it is already being degraded.

That is why GHRH in the above forms must be dosed high to get an effect.

GHRH analogs

All GHRH analogs swap Alanine at the 2nd position for D-Alanine which makes the peptide resistant to quick cleavage at that position. This means analogs will be more effective when injected at smaller dosing.

The analog tetra or 4 substituted GRF(1-29) sometimes called CJC w/o the DAC or referred to by me as modified GRF(1-29) has other amino acid modifications. They are a glutamine (Gln or Q) at the 8-position, alanine (Ala or A) at the 15-position, and a leucine (Leu or L) at the 27-position.

The alanine at the 8th position enhances bioavailability but the other two amino substitutions are made to enhance the manufacturing process (i.e. create manufacturing stability).

For use in vivo, in humans, the GHRH analog known as CJC w/o the DAC or tetra (4) substituted GRF(1-29) or modified GRF(1-29) is a very effective peptide with a half-life probably 30+ minutes.

That is long enough to be completely effective.

The saturation dose is also defined as 100mcg.

Problem w/ Using any GHRH alone

The problem with using a GHRH even the stronger analogs is that they are only highly effective when somatostatin is low (the GH inhibiting hormone). So if you unluckily administer in a trough (or when a GH pulse is not naturally occurring) you will add very little GH release. If however you luckily administer during a rising wave or GH pulse (somatostatin will not be active at this point) you will add to GH release.

Solution is GHRP + GHRH analog

The solution is simple and highly effective. You administer a GHRH analog with a GHRP. The GHRP creates a pulse of GH. It does this through several mechanisms. One mechanism is the reduction of somatostatin release from the hypothalamus, another is a reduction of somatostatin influence at the pituitary, still another is increased release of GHRH from the brain and finally GHRPs act on the same pituitary cells (somatotrophs) as do GHRHs but use a different mechanism to increase cAMP formation which will further cause GH release from somatotroph stores.

GHRH also has a way of reciprocally reinforcing GHRPs action.

The result is a synergistic GH release.

The GH is not additive it is synergistic. By that I mean:


If GHRH by itself will cause a GH release valued at 2
and GHRP itself will cause a GH release valued at 5

Together the GH is not 7 (5+2) it turns out to say 16!A solid protocol

A solid protocol would be to use a GHRP + a GHRH analog pre-bed (to support the nightime pulse) and once or twice throughout the day.

For anti-aging, deep restful restorative sleep, the once at night dosing is all you need. For an adult aged 40+ it is enough to restore GH to youthful levels.

However for bodybuilding or fatloss or injury repair multiple dosings can be effective.

The GHRH analog can be used at 100mcg and as high as you want without problems.

The GHRP-6 can always be used at 100mcg w/o problems but a dose of 200mcg will probably be fine as well.

Again desensitization is something to keep an eye on particularly with the highest doses of GHRP-2 and all doses of Hexarelin.


So 100 - 200mcg of GHRP-6 + 100 - 500mcg+ of a GHRH analog taken together will be effective.This may be dosed several times a day to be highly effective.


A solid approach is a bit more conservative at 100mcg of GHRP-6 + 100mcg of a GHRH analog dosed either once, twice, three or four times a day.When dosing multiple times a day at least 3 hours should separate the administrations.

The difference is once a day dosing pre-bed will give a youthful restorative amount of GH while multiple dosing and or higher levels will give higher GH & IGF-1 levels when coupled with diet & exercise will lead to muscle gain & fatloss.

Dose w/o food

Administration should ideally be done on either an empty stomach or with only protein in the stomach. Fats & carbs blunt GH release. So administer the peptides and wait about 20 minutes (no more then 30 but no less then 15 minutes) to eat. AT that point the GH pulse has about hit the peak and you can eat what you want.

More info can be found on the site profesionalmuscle.com.

Good luck.

[ypmm5]

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this.

semorlin is a waste of money IMHO. The amount you have to take to get the same results as 1-2IU's of hGH is more expensive.

100 to 300mcgs of GHRP causes a pulse equivalent to 1-2IU's of GH and costs about $50 a month

With all do respect, it is the other way around. If you are going to use it within a week, go with the saline if not bacteriostatic water.

[ypmm5]

What is the difference between the "6" and the "2"? Is one more effective than the other?

Thanks.

GHRP-6 at the saturation dose 100mcg does not really increase prolactin & cortisol but may do so slightly at higher doses. This rise is still within the normal range.

GHRP-2 is a little more efficacious then GHRP-6 at causing GH release but at the saturation dose or higher may produce a slight to moderate increase in prolactin & cortisol. This rise is still within the normal range although doses of 200 - 400mcg might make it the high end of the normal range.

Desensitization


GHRP-6 can be used at saturation dose (100mcg) three or four times a day without risk of desensitization.

GHRP-2 probably at saturation dose several times a day will not result in desensitization.

[Cooker]

Thanks for the comments ypmm5.

[ypmm5]

Thanks for the comments ypmm5.

Anytime

[jacshelb]

With all do respect, it is the other way around. If you are going to use it within a week, go with the saline if not bacteriostatic water.

What if we need a 2 mg vial to last 2-3 weeks? Would it be best to use a solution of ba water with acetic acid? Or, what method for this purpose would you recommend?

Thanks for all the good and simplified (clearly put!) info!

[ypmm5]

What if we need a 2 mg vial to last 2-3 weeks? Would it be best to use a solution of ba water with acetic acid? Or, what method for this purpose would you recommend?

Thanks for all the good and simplified (clearly put!) info!

Bacteriostatic water (BW) basically has some alcohol in it. That minimizes the chance of bacteria from growing in it. That is why if you mix any gear, peptides or just what ever and it will not be used completely for a couple of weeks you use BW and not normal saline or sodium chloride.

I am pasting info from Datbtrue. This is the man when it comes to info on peptides. I hope this helps.

The average PH is slightly lower but that is of little consequence. There is no worry about the peptide with either reconstituting agent...the worry is with the end user.

Is there any bacteria in the vial? How do you know it is sterile...because "they" said so?

How about the lypholized powder is it sterile or is there bacteria in it? How do you know it is sterile...was it made in a GMP facility?

How about the salt water? Is that sterile?

What if a little bacteria makes its way into the vial or salt water after several uses?

What happens is that you may end up injecting bacteria into your body.

Bacteriostatic water with .9% BA is sufficient to kill all bacteria upon contact within 2 days. Studies have been done that demonstrate that sterilizing power.

So IF there is bacteria in the vial or in the powder or in the reconstituting agent itself it will die quickly upon contact with the BW.

So if you reconstitute with BW and you let it sit for 2 days you can pretty much be assured that you will not be injecting live bacteria into your body.

[jacshelb]

Nice, thanks for the info. I've read a lot of Dat's stuff, just hadn't seen the concise stuff that you'd posted above before. Makes it pretty clear. Thanks again.

[ypmm5]

Nice, thanks for the info. I've read a lot of Dat's stuff, just hadn't seen the concise stuff that you'd posted above before. Makes it pretty clear. Thanks again.

Anytime

[rj45]

peptides go bad in 2 - 3 days in bacteriostatic water. Use sodium chloride solutions and peptides stay intact for 2 -3 weeks. Pharmacist AND MD's have no clue about this.

semorlin is a waste of money IMHO. The amount you have to take to get the same results as 1-2IU's of hGH is more expensive.

100 to 300mcgs of GHRP causes a pulse equivalent to 1-2IU's of GH and costs about $50 a month

it lasts for 1 month in bacteriostatic. try it