Prohormone/Designer Steroid Q&A. [Archive]

J2jud

01-25-2010, 04:03 PM

Alright, sounds like a plan...

Your opinion (I have a few variations/brands of each):

Superdrol
Epi
P-plex
H-drol

and I could stack one with Propadrol or Furaguno

What do you think my next cycle should be? I will be dieting and trying not to lose mass, so I guess the better worded question is, what is the better of my choices for a cutting cycle?

and yes, Nolva/Clomid will be involved as always.

Glad to see you have a proper PCT protocol. Well, considering you're cutting I'm going to guess that you're using the cycle towards the end of the cutting phase? I highly recommend cycling towards the end of the cycle instead of the beginning when using methylated steroids.

Almost any of the current designers can be used on a cut, as it's the diet that dictates how well you lean out. However, there are some designer steroids that can be considered a better choice as opposed to the other, especially when potency and whether or not you're competing.

With that said, I've recommended the following protocol for oral/methyl only cycles for some competition diets towards the last 6 weeks. I will add that using a prohormone such as 1-AD or like you've suggested Prop or Fura; which does not harm the liver, and can really be a tremendous help while cutting as you can extend the beginning of the cycle from the start and end with a 5-6 week cycle of a methyl. For a sample, I will provide the last 6 weeks portion of a cycle.

Designer Steroid + Prohormone:

Week1: Fura - 300mg -

Week2: Fura - 300mg -

Week3: Fura - 300mg - Superdrol - 20mg

Week4: Fura - 300mg - Superdrol - 20mg

Week5: Fura - 300mg - Superdrol - 20mg

Week6: Fura - 300mg - Superdrol - 20mg

I suggest SD as it has the ability to fill you out, harden you up and dry you out with the possibility of gaining some lean muscle.

could i get some info on 11-oxo? i'm interested in when the best time to use it would be in a contest prep?

Well, this particular prohormone is really effective in the upper amounts of almost a gram. You can gain anti-cortisol effects and anabolic characteristics around 400-500mg. I have personally noticed that 800mg-1g/day is the most effective area to stick with for muscle preservation and lean mass. However, I suggest using 400mg/day for the start of your cut and around 6 weeks out use 800mg-1g/day. I've seen some very good results from cycles that last a total of 12 weeks.

I would suggest using another compound that isn't too harsh for the last three weeks, if you're up to that.

J2jud

01-25-2010, 10:33 PM

Please feel free to ask anything pertaining to DS/PHs, guys. No question will be unanswered.

Steve56

01-25-2010, 11:10 PM

Please feel free to ask anything pertaining to DS/PHs, guys. No question will be unanswered.

whats up bro...never used any ph's...what would be a good non methyl cut stack?? could i stack something like 11-oxo and fura?

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 12:27 AM

whats up bro...never used any ph's...what would be a good non methyl cut stack?? could i stack something like 11-oxo and fura?

Dont want to stack nothing my first cycle..But i would also like to know a good cutting cycle...supports and PCT. If its not too much lol...Thankz

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 02:02 AM

Ive read somewhere about people running a ' mini-cycle ' ..I guess to explain i mean like superdrol for 3 weeks at 10mg..or 5mg. The explained purpose of this was to reduce sides and make less gains but easily keep them. Any comments on that? Could that work?

If so...Wat kind of phs can be used? At what doses?

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 02:24 AM

Hdrol cycle using the theory above...

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
50mg/ 5 days

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
100mg/ 5 days

PCT:?
Supports:?
Dosage:?

Is this credible?

gottabecool

01-26-2010, 01:54 PM

Hdrol cycle using the theory above...

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
50mg/ 5 days

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
100mg/ 5 days

PCT:?
Supports:?
Dosage:?

Is this credible?

Not sure why you are dosing that way, but I would opt for:
week 1-50mg
weeks2-3 75mg
week 4 100mg

I would take cycle support at the recommended dosage on the bottle,
for PCT:
day 1: 30mg nolva
next 3 weeks, 20mg
last week, 10mg

J2Jud,

Not that I doubt you, but 300mg of fura? Holy crap....it's like 9 of those little bitch 33mg pills I have. I knew it was a weak compound but wow....

gottabecool

01-26-2010, 01:59 PM

What do you think of "The one" that was released by AppNut, now available as D-plex from CEL? newer compound with little info, but, your thoughts?

NYJetsFan80

01-26-2010, 02:05 PM

What would be better to use during a cycle to keep estrogen and progestine at bay CEL topical Formestane or Nutra Planets bulk powder Formestane?
I heard that the topical would be better absorbed then the powder version is this true?

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 02:09 PM

Not sure why you are dosing that way, but I would opt for:
week 1-50mg
weeks2-3 75mg
week 4 100mg

I would take cycle support at the recommended dosage on the bottle,
for PCT:
day 1: 30mg nolva
next 3 weeks, 20mg
last week, 10mg

J2Jud,

Not that I doubt you, but 300mg of fura? Holy crap....it's like 9 of those little bitch 33mg pills I have. I knew it was a weak compound but wow....

The reason the dosage is like that its because its supposed to be a 3 week cycle, not 4 weeks. My question is ..is this a way to run a 3 week cycle and if it is can gains be made and kept easier?

gottabecool

01-26-2010, 05:08 PM

The reason the dosage is like that its because its supposed to be a 3 week cycle, not 4 weeks. My question is ..is this a way to run a 3 week cycle and if it is can gains be made and kept easier?

Why only run it for 3 weeks?

Either way, don't go up then back down for the 3rd week. You should progress up until PCT.

gottabecool

01-26-2010, 05:12 PM

OH and J2Jud, on the Fura, where you referring to the furaguno, or furuza-a?

I have both, lol...I have almost all the PH's. Something you would suggest instead?

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 07:52 PM

Why only run it for 3 weeks?

Either way, don't go up then back down for the 3rd week. You should progress up until PCT.

Im trying to figure out would a 3 week cycle be easier on the system and produce easier to maintain gains...

NYJetsFan80

01-26-2010, 07:58 PM

Im trying to figure out would a 3 week cycle be easier on the system and produce easier to maintain gains...

Why only a 3 week cycle?I think 6 weeks would be much better.
After cycle use clomid with NTBM HCGenerate and you will keep all your gains.

FaMeRoKz

01-26-2010, 08:09 PM

Why only a 3 week cycle?I think 6 weeks would be much better.
After cycle use clomid with NTBM HCGenerate and you will keep all your gains.

I understand this.....Im just simply asking.. are 3 weeks cycles effective...or is it broscience...ive seen ppl run for example..

Superdrol 3 weeks at 10/10/10
Superdrol 3 weeks at 20/20/20

or the above H-drol cycle...and have produced gains and kept them with ease.

killercuda426

01-26-2010, 08:10 PM

J2JUD hows it going . I have never done ph before i would like to do my 1st run with american cellular lab tren. But i take a aspirin every morning for lupus anti coagulant with means my blood can clott quickly. Also my doctor has me on andgro gel . So what i was wondering does tren work buy raising your testosterone or other path ways ? also i know 1 of the sides of ph can be blood clott is this because you get to many red blood cells or it thickens the blood or is it because of your cholesterol go's bad? any help you can give would be gratefully appreciated

gottabecool

01-27-2010, 12:13 PM

I understand this.....Im just simply asking.. are 3 weeks cycles effective...or is it broscience...ive seen ppl run for example..

Superdrol 3 weeks at 10/10/10
Superdrol 3 weeks at 20/20/20

or the above H-drol cycle...and have produced gains and kept them with ease.

a 3 week cycle would likely only produce "Easier to keep" gains, because it is easier to keep less gains.

Example (Just making up numbers here):
3 week cycle, you gain 3lbs of muscle, you go to PCT, keep all 3.
4 week cycle, you gain 5lbs of muscle, you go to PCT, keep 80% of your gains.

Which one would you rather have?

(But if you do it right, you should be able to keep your gains in full)

If you want to try a 3 week cycle, knock yourself out, nothing "Wrong" with it. Then maybe try a 4 week some other time.
BTW, how old are you?

J2jud

01-27-2010, 01:48 PM

I will have the Q&A posted later today. Gottabecool, I'm sorry but could you keep replies to PM's only. Thank you.

MetalHeart

01-27-2010, 03:11 PM

Hi Jud, I am currently running a four week cycle of Cynostane at 30/40/40/50 and 1 T-Tren at 4 pumps daily. My choice of SERM for PCT is Toremifene at 90/60/40/30 along with TestoPro from Anabolic Innovations for 8 weeks total and week 5-8 I will be doing Post Cycle Support from AI and ATD at 25 mg EOD.
I have been recommended to also run Clomid at 25 mg ED along with Toremifene, specifically due to the Tren. What do you think, is Clomid really necessary when doing Toremifene at the dosage I outlined above or do you think I will recover and keep gains without Clomid?

FaMeRoKz

01-27-2010, 03:22 PM

is it possible to run a successful cycle with only one bottle of H-drol? in the middle of a cut...?

Capt_lou

01-27-2010, 03:45 PM

I have never used any PH before and work like to start on something relatively easy. I have a bottle of 4-ad and a bottle of H-Drol just sitting in my cabinet. With the 4-ad do I have to run PCT? Also what would be a good H-Drol pct?

Widge

01-28-2010, 09:33 AM

do you think its wise to 'get your freet wet' with a ph cycle as it were before using injectable AAS?

and what would be the best PH for a first time user?

J2jud

01-31-2010, 03:23 AM

whats up bro...never used any ph's...what would be a good non methyl cut stack?? could i stack something like 11-oxo and fura?

A good cutting cycle really depends on diet with prohormones and designer steroids, but 11-OXO seems to be fairly decent at fat reduction. Anyway, 11-OXO is best used for 8-10+ weeks at around 400-800mg/day. This compound being so expensive per milligram can be pyramided to expand the cycle over a period of time, but I wouldn't go below 400mg.

A stacking compound with this particular prohormone would either be 1-AD which is available from some companies, or furazadrol around 400mg @ 6-8 weeks.

Some of the "tren" type compounds like 19-Nor or 13-ethyl might be a good addition for strength and hardness.

However, considering the availability of 1-AD and how cheap it is from some companies; I would have to go with it at 600-800mg/day for 6-10 weeks.

Dont want to stack nothing my first cycle..But i would also like to know a good cutting cycle...supports and PCT. If its not too much lol...Thankz

I highly recommend halodrol on a cut or for anyone's first cycle. The gains are easy and the cycle is very enjoyable. You can use this compound for up to 6 weeks in the following manner:

(50mg/50mg/75mg/75mg/75mg/75mg)

PCT: I always recommend using a SERM, no matter how small/novice a cycle is. You never want to skimp out on recovery. Clomid or Nolva should be fine solo for 4-5 weeks.

Ive read somewhere about people running a ' mini-cycle ' ..I guess to explain i mean like superdrol for 3 weeks at 10mg..or 5mg. The explained purpose of this was to reduce sides and make less gains but easily keep them. Any comments on that? Could that work?

If so...Wat kind of phs can be used? At what doses?

Well, 3 weeks of SD is fairly standard practice. Going around 6 weeks can cause some gastrointestinal problems. However it can be done. A 3 week cycle might as well be 20mg/day. You're going to have to recover no matter what. The sides will be less with a lower dosage. Usually I've seen low dosed SD cycles stacked with a high dosed prohormone. I've seen some 3 week cycles cycled on a 7 day roller coaster. They usually end with unsatisfactory results. The cycle looks like: (5/10/15/20/25/30/40mg) and repeat for the remainder of the cycle.

Usually with these short cycles, you want a fairly strong designer steroid like Phera, SD, Epi/havoc, M1T.

The other type of cycling is called "pulsing." I'm not sure if this is what you're referring or not. If so, I'll gladly fill you in on the pro's and cons.

Hdrol cycle using the theory above...

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
50mg/ 5 days

50mg/ 7 days
75mg/ 9 days
100mg/ 5 days

PCT:?
Supports:?
Dosage:?

Is this credible?

IMO, this type of cycling serves no purpose. I've described a type of roller-coaster cycling effect that usually doesn't work out too well unless the steroid has strong binding affinity and a long half-life, which many available DS/PH's do not have.

PCT, supports would be the same as any other; containing a SERM.

J2Jud,

Not that I doubt you, but 300mg of fura? Holy crap....it's like 9 of those little bitch 33mg pills I have. I knew it was a weak compound but wow....

Yep. 300mg of Furazadrol is considered the "effective" range of the compound as it's quite weak and slow acting. It's quite expensive and almost useless at low dosages.

What do you think of "The one" that was released by AppNut, now available as D-plex from CEL? newer compound with little info, but, your thoughts?

Nothing special. It's basically DHT. Good for hardening and strength with small amount of muscle gain.

What would be better to use during a cycle to keep estrogen and progestine at bay CEL topical Formestane or Nutra Planets bulk powder Formestane?
I heard that the topical would be better absorbed then the powder version is this true?

I would opt for the cheaper of the two. However, topical suspended compounds usually do transfer more compound to the body. It's really a matter of what you can afford during the period of the cycle you need it. Try not too overuse these things as they can backfire if used for long periods of time.

I actually avoid steroidal AI's and instead mega-dose Indole-3-Carbinol at around 400-600mg.

The reason the dosage is like that its because its supposed to be a 3 week cycle, not 4 weeks. My question is ..is this a way to run a 3 week cycle and if it is can gains be made and kept easier?

I have found that longer cycles usually have more of what you might call "solid gains." The only problem that arises during long cycles is the under-developed/poorly planned PCT and diet plan after a cycle.

The key to keeping any gains made from a cycle is caloric surplus in PCT, along with a proper SERM scheme. Most users go blindly into PCT without a thought about the calorie requirements they must meet for a new addition of 20lbs. I usually advise 800-1500 calories more during 4-5 weeks post-cycle.

To answer your question, it's possible that a shorter cycle may make it easier to keep gains, but may make it easier to lose them. The ultimate answer lies within a proper PCT program.

OH and J2Jud, on the Fura, where you referring to the furaguno, or furuza-a?

I have both, lol...I have almost all the PH's. Something you would suggest instead?

I am referring to this compound:
5a-etioallocholan (2,3-) furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether

J2JUD hows it going . I have never done ph before i would like to do my 1st run with american cellular lab tren. But i take a aspirin every morning for lupus anti coagulant with means my blood can clott quickly. Also my doctor has me on andgro gel . So what i was wondering does tren work buy raising your testosterone or other path ways ? also i know 1 of the sides of ph can be blood clott is this because you get to many red blood cells or it thickens the blood or is it because of your cholesterol go's bad? any help you can give would be gratefully appreciated

"tren" does not covert to testosterone or raise testosterone levels. It's a form of a nor-andro and has some progestin activity. I've seen some very nasty sides associated with this particular compound in the BP area. Also, can raise your blood pressure to a great degree and shut you down very quickly.

This prohormone along with many other DS/PH's can raise your RBC's and increase bad cholesterol. There are many factors and sides with any designer steroid or prohormone and can be very dangerous to anyone not in good health. I would have to advise against this particular prohormone in regards to your current state of health problems.

If I were you, I would look into using a Halodrol clone for 5 weeks or even 11-OXO, which is extremely mild as well.

Hi Jud, I am currently running a four week cycle of Cynostane at 30/40/40/50 and 1 T-Tren at 4 pumps daily. My choice of SERM for PCT is Toremifene at 90/60/40/30 along with TestoPro from Anabolic Innovations for 8 weeks total and week 5-8 I will be doing Post Cycle Support from AI and ATD at 25 mg EOD.
I have been recommended to also run Clomid at 25 mg ED along with Toremifene, specifically due to the Tren. What do you think, is Clomid really necessary when doing Toremifene at the dosage I outlined above or do you think I will recover and keep gains without Clomid?

Clomid doesn't have to be ran at all. It's only advised to stay away from Nolva as it can interact with progestins in a bad way. You will recover fine with Torem and extra calories. Don't over-use the ATD. I cannot stand this particular AI for many reasons. Use it for no more than 2 weeks.

is it possible to run a successful cycle with only one bottle of H-drol? in the middle of a cut...?

Sure. run it at 50mg for roughly 30 days... but I would just purchase another bottle and run it 50-75mg for 6 weeks.

I have never used any PH before and work like to start on something relatively easy. I have a bottle of 4-ad and a bottle of H-Drol just sitting in my cabinet. With the 4-ad do I have to run PCT? Also what would be a good H-Drol pct?

With anything that an affect your HPTA or use of exogenous hormones, there will always be the need for post cycle therapy.

Start with Halo and run it like I've described for the other user "Famerokz." It will require the use of a SERM for PCT.

PCT: Clomid @ (75/50/50/25/25mg) and extra calories. Anyone can add a natural test booster of your choosing, but it's not required at all.

do you think its wise to 'get your freet wet' with a ph cycle as it were before using injectable AAS?

and what would be the best PH for a first time user?

It's fine to think of prohormones and some designer steroids as a so-called "test" to using injectables. But you must remember that some of the designer steroids available are more potent than some pharma grade oral AAS. So, you must consider what you think is "getting your feet wet." If you want to see how well you respond to a steroid for your first cycle, I always recommend the use of Halo. It's a great first-time user cycle. Gains are smooth and PCT is a breeze considering you have a plan.

NYJetsFan80

01-31-2010, 02:18 PM

Thanks for your help J2jud much appreciated bro!:D

J2jud

01-31-2010, 03:04 PM

Thanks for your help J2jud much appreciated bro!:D

No problem at all.

killercuda426

01-31-2010, 05:47 PM

G-Roy

01-31-2010, 11:23 PM

J2jud, not doubting your advice just wondering where all your ph knowlege comes from? Are you a chemist or in a related field?i'm always looking for a good source to learn more about these substances as I haven't taken the plunge yet.

kratos47

02-01-2010, 12:12 AM

hey man. i just got this product called "the shot". its a combo prohormone. each pill has 30 milligrams of tren, 10 of epi, and 6 of superdrol. im gonna run it at 3 a day for 4 to 6 weeks. i plan to run cels cycle assist all the way threw and have aromasin on hand if i start to notice any gyno. my post cycle will consist of aromasin and nolvadex. not sure yet on the dosing for the aromasin but was gonna go with the regular 40/40/20/20 with the nolva. any suggestions?

J2jud

02-01-2010, 11:32 AM

j2jud i have a bottle of helladrol from need to build muscle. do you think its safe for me to use that or can you reccomend some of the clones that you talked about earlier ? also when i start to take ph can i use the andgro gel at the same time thank you

I assume you are referring to 'andro gel'? If so, yes. Since Halo is quite a bit more anabolic than it is androgenic; having something like andro gel can be quite an addition to your muscle/strength goals. There are some clones of Halodrol by companies such as: Black China Labs, CEL, and Purus labs. There are some others that I've left out, but that doesn't mean that the quality of the compound is any less.

J2jud, not doubting your advice just wondering where all your ph knowlege comes from? Are you a chemist or in a related field?i'm always looking for a good source to learn more about these substances as I haven't taken the plunge yet.

No problem. I'm a biology/micro major and have extensive knowledge in endocrinology/endocrine system along with steroid profiles. I have studied prohormones and designer steroids for the better part of 5 years. I have education in general chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry classes. Studying and learning about the endocrine system continually has allowed me to see a very in-depth view of prohormones and steroid interaction within the body. I have a genuine love for the endocrine system as it still entails processes/hormones that we have not yet described. To say the least, it's still a very new and exciting field to study. I don't describe myslef as an expert, but consider myself very educated in PH's/DS and the endocrine system. I hope I will be able to answer any of your questions to the best of my knowledge.

hey man. i just got this product called "the shot". its a combo prohormone. each pill has 30 milligrams of tren, 10 of epi, and 6 of superdrol. im gonna run it at 3 a day for 4 to 6 weeks. i plan to run cels cycle assist all the way threw and have aromasin on hand if i start to notice any gyno. my post cycle will consist of aromasin and nolvadex. not sure yet on the dosing for the aromasin but was gonna go with the regular 40/40/20/20 with the nolva. any suggestions?

I would suggest, if the "tren" you have is a "19-Norandro" to reconsider the SERM you use and instead opt for Clomid. Nolva, used after a cycle containing this compound can have a possible negative interaction with this compound.

This cycle you've described is going to be very hepa toxic and can lead to some problems if you're not careful. I wouldn't recommend you use 3 caps a day, instead use 2 caps/day which will lessen the side effects I'm sure you'll experience. I very much dislike these combo steroids as it doesn't allow you the option of tweaking the dosages in a synergistic way with one another. These things can be dangerous to your health and may produce gastrointestinal problems around week 4-6. Be careful and keep the aromasin at a lower dosage for the better part of PCT.

Steve56

02-01-2010, 12:46 PM

A good cutting cycle really depends on diet with prohormones and designer steroids, but 11-OXO seems to be fairly decent at fat reduction. Anyway, 11-OXO is best used for 8-10+ weeks at around 400-800mg/day. This compound being so expensive per milligram can be pyramided to expand the cycle over a period of time, but I wouldn't go below 400mg.

A stacking compound with this particular prohormone would either be 1-AD which is available from some companies, or furazadrol around 400mg @ 6-8 weeks.

Some of the "tren" type compounds like 19-Nor or 13-ethyl might be a good addition for strength and hardness.

However, considering the availability of 1-AD and how cheap it is from some companies; I would have to go with it at 600-800mg/day for 6-10 weeks.

thanks J2JUD...so if i run for example if i run Furazadrol and 11-oxo

Fura- 3 weeks
Fura, 11-oxo- 3 weeks
11-oxo, Alri restore- 6 weeks

would the restore be enough of a PCT??

killercuda426

02-01-2010, 02:40 PM

j2jud thank you

gottabecool

02-02-2010, 11:46 AM

Thanks for all your info J2jud, here are some questions I see alot, your thoughts?

Is their general ancillaries and dosages that you recommend both on cycle, and what on PCT?

Is cycle assist adequate?

I used Clomid this time for PCT and Nolva last time. Nolva made me feel better, can I mix them? Dosing?

Do you recommend any kind of test booster on PCT?

"Rodz"

02-02-2010, 03:06 PM

Great thread Man!!!, lots of info here, Ive been using Need2's products since last july with some great results!

NYJetsFan80

02-02-2010, 04:07 PM

J2Jud one last question bro what do you think of the company Primordial Performance and their liquid LV technoligy?
Do you think PP PHs are more absorbed then orals?

NYJetsFan80

02-02-2010, 04:11 PM

Great thread Man!!!, lots of info here, Ive been using Need2's products since last july with some great results!

Agreed!All Nathans products are top notch from NTBM and the PHs that Mr.Supps gets from NTBM are all great high quality stuff also!:yep:

Widge

02-02-2010, 07:18 PM

do you strong condem PH use before the age of 21? i hear alot of bad stuff about impetence etc but is it blown out of proportion?

generally speaking (and i know thats hard as every human is different) for an 18-19 year old male with a few years experience and a decent base our pro hormones safe prasuming a propper pct etc?

edit - just noticed the "first time users (over21)" in your other thread, ill leave the question up in case you want to add anything specific tho XD

Minnphat

02-02-2010, 07:53 PM

Hey which prohormone and pct would you recomend while trying to stay lean and have low side effects especially on hair loss? I am looking to take somthing mild that would only put on about 5 quality pounds and keep me dry and lean. I am currently taking propecia so I am not sure how that would effect would I would take. Any input would be great thanks man.

sulcop

02-02-2010, 10:01 PM

I have no experience with PH products so I find this thread very interesting! One thing I am confused with is the cutting stacks. You mentioned using methyl orals only at the last six weeks but something about non methyl orals at the start of the cut, is that correct? If so could you give a brief outline of how that would look along with any supporting materials. I know you have answered parts of this in other posts so I apologize it its redundant.

FaMeRoKz

02-05-2010, 04:59 AM

Looking to do a full cut...Dave's diet ...H-drol cycle..and sum clen...save the clen for PCT or run during cycle too?

FaMeRoKz

02-05-2010, 05:18 AM

What do you think about Primordial Performace's new Superdron LV....supposed to be a superdrol clone...more effective or less? Dosing...and PCT...

spritz0

02-05-2010, 12:06 PM

Please feel free to ask anything pertaining to DS/PHs, guys. No question will be unanswered.
Thank God, I've finally got someone to ask!

I've got a three month supply of M1T (at 2 cap/day rate). What would be the OPTIMAL cycle you would recommend or do yourself, and if I'm on- should I avoid the KETO diet for the cycle or is it O.K.??
Anything you could suggest or add I will follow and cherish the advice as I am in the dark here and have found conflicting info on the other sites... much thanks in advance!

NYJetsFan80

02-05-2010, 12:41 PM

What do you think about Primordial Performace's new Superdron LV....supposed to be a superdrol clone...more effective or less? Dosing...and PCT...

X2!I also want J2Jud to answer this question.I picked up 2 bottles of the new Superdrone LV which I recieved yesterday and can't wait to use it in the future.Looking forward to J2Juds opinion if PPs liquid LV PHs are more absorbed like Eric claims?

DR.BB

02-07-2010, 06:49 PM

J2jud,
1. Patrick Arnold claims H-drol (nomenclature above?) does not have much liver toxicity. Would you agree that a dose of 25-50mgs/day would be okay on the liver and still yield gains?

2. Are you familiar with a company, Peformance Anabolics? Is their stuff legit? They make a blend called Tri Methyl X.

Thanks

FaMeRoKz

02-07-2010, 08:08 PM

I found this on another site and wondered if there's any truth to this...is Nolvadex really that outdated? Are other SERMS more advanced and recommended....im wondering bcuz im still trying to figure out my PCT....

As much as this drug is loved for PCT, I think its high time we slowly ease out old school and switch to fareston/toremifene.

MANY THANKS TO JMF :

Here is a good reason why:

Nolvadex is the trade name of a drug containing a molecule called Tamoxifen. Its primary use by male bodybuilders is to prevent gynecomastia (the growth of the breast tissue). It was introduced by steroid guru Dan Duchaine 25 years ago. After a quarter of century, it is time for an update about its use. What I am going to demonstrate is it is high time to eliminate Nolvadex from the bodybuilder's drug stacks.

A Little Bit of History

Back in the late 70's, more and more bodybuilders developed strange lumps around their mammary glands. At first, no one really took notice but more and more competitors grew a gynecomastia. In 1981, the M Olympia had a pretty serious gyno. This was shortly after the introduction of this new drug by Dan Duchaine. At the time, it was a pretty good idea as no one else could came up with a solution in order to prevent this growing problem. Nolvadex was popularised by Dan's first Underground Steroid Handbook. Dan even states that "this drug has a lot of potential but hasn't been used enough yet to find it". After more than 25 years of intensive usage, it is my opinion that it is time to forget about Nolvadex. Why? First, because newer and more effective drugs have been developed. Second, because it seems obvious that Nolvadex impairs muscle growth.

Nolvadex and Muscle Growth

After so many years of usage, it seems pretty clear that if Tamoxifen helps prevent the growth of the nipples, it also weakens the anabolic properties of steroids in a majority of bodybuilders. We are frequently said that this weakening effect is due to the anti-estrogenic action of Nolvadex. According to the fantasy, muscles require both testosterone and estrogens to grow at an optimal rate.

This belief is derived from the results of studies showing that without estrogens, testosterone alone possesses minimal anabolic properties. By increasing the density of androgen receptors, estrogens render the muscles much more sensitive to testosterone (1). This has been demonstrated in a very specific muscle called the levator ani. But this muscle does not reflect what happens in the muscles bodybuilders are interested in (2). Estrogens have even been shown to reduce muscle fiber size (3-4). I think this effect of estrogens is closer to what we experience on bodybuilders.

Another popular explanation of the weakening action of Nolvadex is provided by studies which have shown that it reduced the plasma level of IGF-1. I do not think this is a primary explanation.

What Nolvadex Truly Is

Most lifters assume Nolvadex is a pure estrogen antagonist (which would mean it prevents estrogens from acting on their receptors). As far as bodybuilding is concerned, this assumption is very wrong as Nolvadex is both an estrogen receptor agonist and an antagonist. It all depends upon the tissues. Along with the nipples, on which Nolvadex acts mainly as an antagonist, we are also interested by its behaviour on skeletal muscles, on the liver and on the fat cells.

Nolvadex has been shown to behave as estrogens in skeletal muscles (5). This is a very good thing for every athletes except bodybuilders. You see, estrogens protect muscle cells from the training-induced damages (5-6). It means that one can train more without damaging his muscles. Recovery will also be much faster. But for bodybuilders, the training-induced damages are a key ingredient to trigger growth. Nolvadex will therefore reduce the muscle building effects of resistance training.

As for the impact of Tamoxifen on IGF-1, it simply demonstrates another estrogen-like action of Nolvadex. By rendering the liver less sensitive to growth hormone (probably by reducing the liver density of GH receptors), estrogens and tamoxifen diminish the production of IGF-1. This action of estrogens explains why women produce less IGF-1 than men eventhough the have a higher GH level.

Nolvadex and Muscle Definition

Within 24 to 48 hours, Nolvadex is able to greatly increase muscular definition. As a result, bodybuilders assume Nolvadex will help them reduce their bodyfat level. But this rapid cutting action of Nolvadex is due to an anti-estrogenic action on water retention. Estrogens will make you hold water. Nolvadex will produce the opposite effect. But it says nothing about the impact of Tamoxifen on bodyfat. Depending upon your own production of estrogens and your estrogen receptor density on adipocytes, Nolvadex can act as an antagonist (which would help you lose fat) or an agonist. In that case, Nolvadex will make you fatter especially in the lower body area.

Conclusion: if the introduction of Nolvadex 25 years ago was a brilliant idea, times have changed. Very effective anti-aromatase drugs (such as Letrozole or Anastrazole) have been introduced. They will fight gynecomastia, help prevent the anti-anabolic actions of estrogens, fight fat and water retention. They will also boost natural testosterone production far more effectively than Nolvadex. So, it is up to you to decide whether you wish impair your rate of progression with an outdated drug or move on to the 21st century.

Bibliography:

(1) Max SR. Androgen-estrogen synergy in rat levator ani muscle: glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase. Mol Cell Endocrinol. 1984 Dec;38(2-3):103-7.

(2) Rance NE, Max SR. Modulation of the cytosolic androgen receptor in striated muscle by sex steroids. Endocrinology. 1984 Sep;115(3):862-6.

(3) Kobori M, Yamamuro T. Effects of gonadectomy and estrogen administration on rat skeletal muscle. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 1989 Jun;(243):306-11.

(4) Suzuki S, Yamamuro T. Long-term effects of estrogen on rat skeletal muscle. Exp Neurol. 1985 Feb;87(2):291-9.

(5) Koot RW, Amelink GJ, Blankenstein MA, Bar PR. Tamoxifen and oestrogen both protect the rat muscle against physiological damage. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1991;40(4-6):689-95.

(6) Naessens G, De Slypere JP, Dijs H, Driessens M. Hypogonadism as a cause of recurrent muscle injury in a high level soccer player. A case report. Int J Sports Med. 1995 Aug;16(6):413-7.

Some inferences:
a) Nolvadex effect on estrogen is VERY site specific, and not general. While being a good breast site ERM its effect on skeletal tissue seems way out.
b) While being extremely suppressive on IGF on site, nolva also becomes problematic to use if one runs IGF exogeniously in the PCT.

In support of Ralox:

SERMS are "designer" estrogen-related medications that activate the estrogen receptors, but have different effects on different tissues. There are two kinds of estrogen receptors, and after binding to receptors, the drug-receptor complex can have various conformations. Some of these will act like estrogen, others will inhibit the actions of estrogen.

Advantages of Raloxifene:
Many screening studies of related compounds have been done to search for those which act like estrogen in the desireable ways (stablize bone mass, improve lipid profile) but do not act like estrogen in undesireable ways (cause breast cancer, stimulate the endometrium). The effects on the cardiovascular system are still uncertain: when Ralox was first developed it was felt that estrogen had a beneficial action on the heart, now this is doubted and debated.

Effects on bone physiology
# Decreased bone formation and resorption
# No significant change in bone volume
# Slight increase in mineralization density
# No evidence of osteomalacia or bone toxicity

Another effect of Ralox is that users had fewer asthma attacks and less severe asthma symptoms, strongly suggesting that perhaps estrogen affects airway smooth muscle function by preventing the hyperresponsiveness characteristic of asthma and other chronic lung diseases.

Toxicology report that estrogen, as well as selective estrogen receptor modifiers (SERMs), completely abolished abnormal tracheal constriction in a carbachol test.Carbachol is often used to stimulate, or mimic, contractions of airway and other muscles.

Estrogen has a wide range of actions in the nervous system, including neuroprotection and potentiation of nerve regeneration (Toran-Allerand, 1999; Tanzer et al., 1999; McEwen et al., 2001; Islamov et al., 2002). In spite of the beneficial actions of estrogen on the nervous system, the opportunities for its wide therapeutic application are severely limited because of its adverse side effects in reproductive organs. Therefore, a search for pharmacological substances with selective estrogenic action on the nervous system is of great practical significance.

Other positive effects:
The HDL cholesterol level is considered a strong inverse predictor of cardiovascular disease .Therefore, the absence of an increase in serum HDL cholesterol levels raises concern that raloxifene may not be as effective as estrogen replacement in preventing cardiovascular disease. Although the findings of animal studies are difficult to generalize to humans, recent animal data have also raised concerns that raloxifene may not prevent the progression of coronary artery disease. Because no long-term trials have been conducted, it is impossible to determine whether the small lipid effects produced by raloxifene correlate with a smaller degree of cardioprotective activity.

Raloxifene vs Tamox
From the above we can infer that Ralox maybe a better choice over Tamox as it lends the following positive effects on use.
a)Increasing bone density
b)Prevention of asthma
c)Nerve regeneration and neuroprotection
d)No changes in serum concentrations of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides, while reducing LDL levels.

kratos47

02-08-2010, 05:45 AM

hey bro its there any science behind starting with a lower dose of a prohormone then upping it and tappering down? is there any benefits to doing somthing like that?

J2jud

02-10-2010, 11:47 AM

thanks J2JUD...so if i run for example if i run Furazadrol and 11-oxo

Fura- 3 weeks
Fura, 11-oxo- 3 weeks
11-oxo, Alri restore- 6 weeks

would the restore be enough of a PCT??

Restore might be "ok" but I highly suggest using a SERM. There's no question of recovery and claims of compound purity. However, use OTC PCT at your own risk. Going with a SERM is much cheaper and effective.

j2jud thank you

No problem.

Thanks for all your info J2jud, here are some questions I see alot, your thoughts?

Is their general ancillaries and dosages that you recommend both on cycle, and what on PCT?

Is cycle assist adequate?

I used Clomid this time for PCT and Nolva last time. Nolva made me feel better, can I mix them? Dosing?

Do you recommend any kind of test booster on PCT?

Ancillaries that are highly effective, IMO, are: SAM-e, NAC, and garlic extract. Most other ancillaries must be tailored to that specific cycles. If a cycle is a little too 'wet' then I would recommend a non-steroidal AI like I3C, anastrozole, chrysin, etc.

Cycle Assist can be adequate, but I like to recommend some things such as SAM-e for nasty cycles.

Clomid and Nolva may be combined, if you wish. However, I do still feel that clomid is the better choice. If the SERM makes you feel absolutely too emotional or just plain crappy, then you should use something easier on your system.

I usually tell users to save a test booster product till after PCT, or add it in within the 3rd week of PCT and continue to use as directed/feel.

Some of the better T-booster's I have found can be duplicated to a higher level on Customcapsule. Some popular products: Primal Male, Activate Xtreme, Recycle (very good formula).

Great thread Man!!!, lots of info here, Ive been using Need2's products since last july with some great results!

Thank you very much!

J2Jud one last question bro what do you think of the company Primordial Performance and their liquid LV technoligy?
Do you think PP PHs are more absorbed then orals?

I've not searched out their liquid delivery system too much, but having certain compounds may make absorption better, but not too a largely significant degree. I usually suggest going with the trusted company and whether or not the company produces product at an affordable price. As far as I know PP was fine. They did push their topical formulas hardcore against anything else, but now have both liquid and topical......

do you strong condem PH use before the age of 21? i hear alot of bad stuff about impetence etc but is it blown out of proportion?

generally speaking (and i know thats hard as every human is different) for an 18-19 year old male with a few years experience and a decent base our pro hormones safe prasuming a propper pct etc?

edit - just noticed the "first time users (over21)" in your other thread, ill leave the question up in case you want to add anything specific tho XD

IMO, any user below the age of 21 cannot really say that they have a solid foundation for the use of prohormones or designer steroids. Dieting, training experience, steroid cycle comprehension are all needed to make the most out of any cycle and I haven't seen one individual that can honestly say they have a full understanding of diet & training when I talk to them. Sure, they'll try to convince me of a "sticking point" and that's a LOT of BS. Hell some older individuals shouldn't even be cycling. But I believe one should have a solid understanding of what they are doing before embarking on something that can potentially be problematic.

Hey which prohormone and pct would you recomend while trying to stay lean and have low side effects especially on hair loss? I am looking to take somthing mild that would only put on about 5 quality pounds and keep me dry and lean. I am currently taking propecia so I am not sure how that would effect would I would take. Any input would be great thanks man.

Look into using Halodrol. It's a very valuable anabolic and easy on the hairline. PCT: clomid (50/50/25/25mg)

I have no experience with PH products so I find this thread very interesting! One thing I am confused with is the cutting stacks. You mentioned using methyl orals only at the last six weeks but something about non methyl orals at the start of the cut, is that correct? If so could you give a brief outline of how that would look along with any supporting materials. I know you have answered parts of this in other posts so I apologize it its redundant.

My theory for using non-methylated hormones before using a methyl lies within the toxicity/health issues that come with cycling methylated steroids for long periods of time. Cutting or bulking; if you want to draw-out, lengthen a cycle, you're going to have to use non-methylated compounds. I especially recommend using any methyl on a cut towards the last 6 weeks of a cutting phase as this is the most crucial time period of muscle preservation and seeing immediate results. If you use a methyl at the beginning of the cycle, the effects will not be as pronounced or dramatic. I hope that answers your question.

Looking to do a full cut...Dave's diet ...H-drol cycle..and sum clen...save the clen for PCT or run during cycle too?

I would use clen during your halo cycle as the effects will be much better. However, sides of clen will be much more apparent. PCT is not the place for something like clen.

What do you think about Primordial Performace's new Superdron LV....supposed to be a superdrol clone...more effective or less? Dosing...and PCT...

See answer above. It can be a quicker/efficient absorption rate than with tabs or caps being that the delivery system contains said compounds. It can and should be more "efficient" than capped compound.

Thank God, I've finally got someone to ask!

I've got a three month supply of M1T (at 2 cap/day rate). What would be the OPTIMAL cycle you would recommend or do yourself, and if I'm on- should I avoid the KETO diet for the cycle or is it O.K.??
Anything you could suggest or add I will follow and cherish the advice as I am in the dark here and have found conflicting info on the other sites... much thanks in advance!

M-1T is a very side effect prone designer. Let me know the milligram per cap and I can help you a little more. thanks.

J2jud,
1. Patrick Arnold claims H-drol (nomenclature above?) does not have much liver toxicity. Would you agree that a dose of 25-50mgs/day would be okay on the liver and still yield gains?

2. Are you familiar with a company, Peformance Anabolics? Is their stuff legit? They make a blend called Tri Methyl X.

Thanks

I found this on another site and wondered if there's any truth to this...is Nolvadex really that outdated? Are other SERMS more advanced and recommended....im wondering bcuz im still trying to figure out my PCT....

As much as this drug is loved for PCT, I think its high time we slowly ease out old school and switch to fareston/toremifene.

Nolva has it's place in recovery. As a cheap and effective way for some people to recover from a cycle, I don't recommend it the majority of the time. Clomid/torem are much better and have a better effect on your HPTA as well as an increase in other hormones beneficial to growth and recovery. IMO, it's somewhat outdated, but shouldn't be discarded.

hey bro its there any science behind starting with a lower dose of a prohormone then upping it and tappering down? is there any benefits to doing somthing like that?

Really, there's no science behind pyramiding the dosages. The theory behind its practice is to allow your body to respond the the dosages and allow you to make adjustments to your compound intake as needed. Some people find better results start at a lower dosage and others find they need a little more. It's always good to find where you stand with a specific compound as you may not enjoy the side effects at a given milligram.

DR.BB

02-10-2010, 01:05 PM

J2jud

02-10-2010, 01:24 PM

J2,
You missed my question:

1. Patrick Arnold claims H-drol (nomenclature above?) does not have much liver toxicity. Would you agree that a dose of 25-50mgs/day would be okay on the liver and still yield gains?

2. Are you familiar with a company, Peformance Anabolics? Is their stuff legit? They make a blend called Tri Methyl X.

Thanks, great thread.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Halodrol is not very liver toxic. however, increasing the dosage will prove to be toxic. Liver toxicity can usually arise around 75-100mg of compound which is on par to about 20mg of superdrol. 25mg is not a whole lot, but 50mg is a great region for anabolic activity. So, 50mg is a very feasible dosage.

Performance Anabolics product "Tri Methyl X" is a stain of a product. Too many compounds to make it appealing to the uninformed. Stay away.

gottabecool

02-10-2010, 03:50 PM

My knees were insanely painful and dry on epistane/propadrol....anything to combat this?

gmta99

02-10-2010, 04:01 PM

What do you think of LG's Methyl-1D stacked with Gaspari's Halodrol as a stack??

J2jud

02-11-2010, 11:19 AM

My knees were insanely painful and dry on epistane/propadrol....anything to combat this?

Look into some DHEA and a combo joint supplement. I've always found that Cissus has been good to my joints. I get mine from customcapsule.

What do you think of LG's Methyl-1D stacked with Gaspari's Halodrol as a stack??

Not a fan of LG. Anyway, it can be a productive non-hormonal stack.

gmta99

02-11-2010, 12:59 PM

Not a fan of LG. Anyway, it can be a productive non-hormonal stack.[/quote]

Ok, what would you recommend for a good lean mass stack ?

FaMeRoKz

02-11-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaMeRoKz
Looking to do a full cut...Dave's diet ...H-drol cycle..and sum clen...save the clen for PCT or run during cycle too?
I would use clen during your halo cycle as the effects will be much better. However, sides of clen will be much more apparent. PCT is not the place for something like clen.

at what dosage do you think i should run the clen? and for what amount of time?

spritz0

02-11-2010, 02:18 PM

I am opening this thread to answer questions specifically about designer steroids and prohormones for those that might be seeking my advice. I have been away for a period of time and would like to kick off my return with some helpful Q&A. I will post answers to questions once a week on Sundays. If you're in need of an immediate answer that cannot wait, please feel free to PM me. I will do my best to keep up with messages, but if it's not an emergency than I ask you to post the question in this thread.

I only have one thing I must ask for the Q&A to run smoothly. Please allow me to answer the questions even if you may have an answer to the question. This will cut down on my time finding and collecting the questions as will it allow members to search through the thread more efficiently. Thank you.

Jud.
Getting back to you on the M1T- it is 90 capsules at 10mg potency per cap...

gottabecool

02-11-2010, 03:50 PM

Look into some DHEA and a combo joint supplement. I've always found that Cissus has been good to my joints. I get mine from customcapsule.

I have been taking triple doses of glucosamine, chondriotin with MSM and it didn't change a thing. I normally take 1.5 doses, but on cycle I doubled.

What kind of doses in your capsule, I am willing to try it.

Another question, 1-androsterone....any good? (I would only use it in a stack)

gmta99

02-13-2010, 08:20 AM

Just ordered 2 LGI: Pro-Stanivar Lean Stack, heard good thing's about it.. What do you think is a good amount, 50 or 75mg per day?

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 Cap
Servings Per Container: 60

Anabolic Complex:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17-diol 25mg
2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androstane-3-one-17b-ol 15mg

Liver Detox and Antioxidant Blend:

Saw Palmetto Berries 125mg
Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin) 200mg
N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) 200mg

Jason Newman

02-13-2010, 09:49 AM

i just finished running Dermacrine (http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/dermacrine-liqua-vade.html) and i wanna run THe One (http://www.tfsupplements.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1411), now dermacrine says a PCT needed after 8 weeks and "suggested" after 4, i have no shutdown libido is still good balls hardly shrank if at all, would you suggest i do pct and run The ONE in april? or start it monday and call it safe?

killercuda426

02-14-2010, 05:26 PM

j2jud hello i got 4 bottles of h drol by cel can you help me set up a plan on running a cylce? Should i take any thing before i start the cycle for bp or prostate.Also i will be taken my andro gel with the cycle. can i eat just protien and maybe some small carbs before i work out? I would like to loose some fat try to get leaner.and as far as pct can i just keep using the andro gel or will i need some thing eles.

gottabecool

02-16-2010, 10:02 AM

J2jud, I felt like complete ass after running Clomid for PCT(First day was 250, then 150/150/100/50) to p-plex, lethargic, weak, depressed...just generally shitty. Is it likely that it was weak/bunk and I was shut down?

I picked up some of ALR's restore and felt better 2 days later @ 4/day

parker7

02-17-2010, 03:11 AM

Not sure if this is allowed, but can someone pm/hint where they get their h drol at. Thanks.

gottabecool

02-18-2010, 10:30 AM

Keeping the thread at the top, good info.

parker, sent PM.

J2jud, Nothing wrong with PH's if I get put on TRT, right? (Found out my levels were low, before my first cycle, backing up tests soon)
Probably just enhance them further I assume.

J2jud

02-18-2010, 10:49 AM

I will be posting the Q & A later tonight guys. Been slammed with exams and work.

gottabecool

02-19-2010, 10:32 AM

I will be posting the Q & A later tonight guys. Been slammed with exams and work.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/images/smilies/squint_smile.gif No excuses, suck it up, play like a champion!!!:hugme:

FaMeRoKz

02-22-2010, 01:28 PM

How would the diet look like for a H-drol Recomp Cycle? Can u run H-drol while on Dave's Keto diet? Do calories need to go up for PCT?

J2jud

02-23-2010, 11:49 AM

Ok, what would you recommend for a good lean mass stack ?

An all natural non-hormonal anabolic stack or a prohormone/designer steroid stack?

If you've had any previous history with PH/DS please help me determine your level of use so I can better help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaMeRoKz
Looking to do a full cut...Dave's diet ...H-drol cycle..and sum clen...save the clen for PCT or run during cycle too?
I would use clen during your halo cycle as the effects will be much better. However, sides of clen will be much more apparent. PCT is not the place for something like clen.

at what dosage do you think i should run the clen? and for what amount of time?

I wouldn't use clen in PCT as it can be counterproductive, but do as you see fit. Use it on cycle as you don't want to be on clen for a long period of time anyway. Start with 25mcg and increase from there by 25mcg to a medium where you're seeing results and not having terrible side effects. If you want to continue clen through PCT then drop the dosages considerably. I have seen the best results from not desensitizing your receptors by hitting 40-60mg for two weeks straight and then taking a week off and repeat for about 10-12 weeks. If you want to continually use clen for a straight cycle period, you may want to do as I said and asses your tolerance to the drug and then keep increasing the dosages week by week. I wouldn't go over 100mg unless you feel fine while doing so. But having a designer steroid to accompany you along can make a huge difference. Monitor your BP and use for ~8 weeks.

Getting back to you on the M1T- it is 90 capsules at 10mg potency per cap...

This steroid is very toxic and will make you feel like shit.. just a warning. Normal cycles go no less than 3 weeks and no more than 4 weeks to avoid serious complications. You may want to keep the dosages small your first run. (10/20/30) or (10/10/20/30) I can say that 30mg is pushing it and you may want to stick to 20mg max. Asses your tolerance and gain/pain ratio.

I have been taking triple doses of glucosamine, chondriotin with MSM and it didn't change a thing. I normally take 1.5 doses, but on cycle I doubled.

What kind of doses in your capsule, I am willing to try it.

Another question, 1-androsterone....any good? (I would only use it in a stack)

Well, thats the luxury of customcapsule. You can make whatever dosages you feel are 'best fit' for you. I usually suggest making as much mg's of each component to your mix fit in one cap so you get the best bang for your buck.

1-Androsterone is not very good and not much information on it. The only variations of 1-AD that are decent are 1-androstendione and 1-androstendiol.

Just ordered 2 LGI: Pro-Stanivar Lean Stack, heard good thing's about it.. What do you think is a good amount, 50 or 75mg per day?

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 Cap
Servings Per Container: 60

Anabolic Complex:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17-diol 25mg
2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androstane-3-one-17b-ol 15mg

Liver Detox and Antioxidant Blend:

Saw Palmetto Berries 125mg
Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin) 200mg
N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) 200mg

I dislike combo prohoromones in one cap. It doesn't allow you to adjust the steroids to be in your favor. These products were designed by the supplement company to be absolutely toxic. If you ingest enough to have any results from halodrol, you'd be taking over 45mg of superdrol. Basically, you're seeing results from the superdrol and not halo. If you wish to stack these two compounds, buy them separately.

i just finished running Dermacrine (http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/dermacrine-liqua-vade.html) and i wanna run THe One (http://www.tfsupplements.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1411), now dermacrine says a PCT needed after 8 weeks and "suggested" after 4, i have no shutdown libido is still good balls hardly shrank if at all, would you suggest i do pct and run The ONE in april? or start it monday and call it safe?

Not a fan of "the one" as it's basically a hardening agent, produces any gains similar to using straight DHT.

Anyway, no PCT is necessary IMO at this point. I would start using whatever cycle (the one) you have planned either this week or next week. You shouldn't be shut down at all from dermacrine.

j2jud hello i got 4 bottles of h drol by cel can you help me set up a plan on running a cylce? Should i take any thing before i start the cycle for bp or prostate.Also i will be taken my andro gel with the cycle. can i eat just protien and maybe some small carbs before i work out? I would like to loose some fat try to get leaner.and as far as pct can i just keep using the andro gel or will i need some thing eles.

Depends. If you're using the andro gel as recommended by a doctor, you may want to stay on it and use a light PCT.

Halo Cycle:
- 6 weeks (50/50/75/75/75/75)
PCT
- Clomid (75/50/25/25)

I would take in some whey protein isolate(25g) 30min before each workout. If you want some carbs, try some oatmeal with a tbs of fruit preserves.

J2jud, I felt like complete ass after running Clomid for PCT(First day was 250, then 150/150/100/50) to p-plex, lethargic, weak, depressed...just generally shitty. Is it likely that it was weak/bunk and I was shut down?

I picked up some of ALR's restore and felt better 2 days later @ 4/day

The reason why you felt so 'shitty' is due to such high dosages of clomid. You really should only be using 100-150 for one to two weeks and no longer. (100/75/50/50/25) would have been a better option. Also, being shut down it's going to take a little longer to recover from such androgens.

Not sure if this is allowed, but can someone pm/hint where they get their h drol at. Thanks.

tfsupplements.com

Keeping the thread at the top, good info.

parker, sent PM.

J2jud, Nothing wrong with PH's if I get put on TRT, right? (Found out my levels were low, before my first cycle, backing up tests soon)
Probably just enhance them further I assume.

Well, the only problem with being on TRT and wanting to cycle is planning cycles around your doctors visit/blood work. Yes, it's fine and you can have some great gains, but you don't want to risk having your doctor catch wind of what you're doing. Otherwise, go for it.

How would the diet look like for a H-drol Recomp Cycle? Can u run H-drol while on Dave's Keto diet? Do calories need to go up for PCT?

You can run halo on a keto diet. I would still recommend upping calories in PCT. It's just something that's proven effective in a time of stress to maintain gains. I can't tell you the exact diet, but I would do some variation of a carb cycle. Keto, you just have to get the calories correct for your body type.

gottabecool

02-23-2010, 04:51 PM

Well, the only problem with being on TRT and wanting to cycle is planning cycles around your doctors visit/blood work. Yes, it's fine and you can have some great gains, but you don't want to risk having your doctor catch wind of what you're doing. Otherwise, go for it.

My doctor already knows :hugme: LOL, I talked to him about it before my first cycle, and he was fine with it. :yep:

Christ you are a wealth of info.......Thanks again bud.

I see you are a rep there, is there a blend you can maybe PM (If not post here) me that will be better then "Cycle support" to maybe lessen the sides?

killercuda426

02-23-2010, 07:36 PM

j2jud i will be using my andro gel as recommended by my doctor. what kind of blood work do i have to be careful of him running so he dont catch me on h drol cycle. on my next vist if i start right away i dont have to go back for 4 months is that enough time for it to get out of my system thanks

J2jud

02-24-2010, 11:42 AM

My doctor already knows :hugme: LOL, I talked to him about it before my first cycle, and he was fine with it. :yep:

Christ you are a wealth of info.......Thanks again bud.

I see you are a rep there, is there a blend you can maybe PM (If not post here) me that will be better then "Cycle support" to maybe lessen the sides?

Haha. That is always a huge plus when your doc is very open and friendly like that.

Thanks man. I love getting questions and helping people in this area. Yeah, I rep for CC/Transform Supplements. I'll come up with a good dosed product to help you out. I'll PM the ingredients/info.

j2jud i will be using my andro gel as recommended by my doctor. what kind of blood work do i have to be careful of him running so he dont catch me on h drol cycle. on my next vist if i start right away i dont have to go back for 4 months is that enough time for it to get out of my system thanks

That's plenty of time to run a cycle/PCT (optional) before the next blood work. The problem will arise when he sees a substantial increase or influx in hormones over the course of your treatment as he's already established "normal" baseline levels of hormone. Don't worry about getting caught. Just dont run a cycle when you're about to have a blood/hormonal panel drawn.

gottabecool

02-25-2010, 11:00 AM

Outstanding, look forward to it.

What's your next cycle look like?

J2jud

02-25-2010, 11:12 AM

Outstanding, look forward to it.

What's your next cycle look like?

I'll try and have a mix made up by tonight. I'll be on campus all day, with lab duties.

I haven't cycled for a long time. I'm not sure when/what I'll be using when the time comes. But I stick to fairly simple cycles. I'll be sure and let ya know when it is and what it contains.

gottabecool

02-25-2010, 12:18 PM

Any problem with stacking Fura, 11-oxo, and/or 1-AD? How about all that, with a methyl?

Liver and kidney failure immenent? LOL

Any feelings on pSarm's in Oral form? Or injectable S4?

spritz0

02-26-2010, 01:38 PM

Thanks, J2jud. Just one more question- this time on AAS. I am taking a 3 week vacation to Tijuana this November, and considering doing a 3 week cycle of Anadrol- what would be the heaviest per-day I could reasonably go?? Is 3 -50mg tabs too much to consider? Much thanks in advance again!

Widge

02-26-2010, 04:49 PM

is halo still a decent mass builder? i was curious as i see it being used to many times in a recomp or cut diet? i assumed in my head that test is test and more test = more recovery and muscle but just making sure?

killercuda426

02-26-2010, 08:15 PM

j2jud thank you:yep:

Jason Newman

02-27-2010, 02:27 AM

hey jud whats r thots on androsterone like the AMS 1-ad UTTstuff?>

do you think i should sell my unopened bottle of the one? ima run 1 bottle with dermacrine in march.....

what do you feel would be a good recomp/lean bulk stack for a beginner PH user, not first timer tho, id like to add 5-10lbs right now im at 200 and 9-10%bf would like to be 215 7% by sept, and will be running Dermacrine and The One in march so the cycle u suggest would be for summer

J2jud

03-01-2010, 12:28 PM

Any problem with stacking Fura, 11-oxo, and/or 1-AD? How about all that, with a methyl?

Liver and kidney failure immenent? LOL

Any feelings on pSarm's in Oral form? Or injectable S4?

There shouldn't be any problem stacking all of those together except in high dosages. Obviously you shouldn't use the methyl for very long (6 weeks with most). You'll only have damage to liver and kidney when you're using high amounts of hepatoxic compounds or long durations of 17aa compounds.

I've been doing research on SARMs but haven't come to any solid conclusion on S4. Orally, it seems to have done an alright job. However, a major side of vision loss has been noted in dosages of ~75mg. So, be wary of how much you use. I'm very interested in having a more in-depth look at them.

Thanks, J2jud. Just one more question- this time on AAS. I am taking a 3 week vacation to Tijuana this November, and considering doing a 3 week cycle of Anadrol- what would be the heaviest per-day I could reasonably go?? Is 3 -50mg tabs too much to consider? Much thanks in advance again!

I wouldn't go over 100mg/day. Going over that is just a shit ton of sides and a more slanted cost-benefit ratio.

is halo still a decent mass builder? i was curious as i see it being used to many times in a recomp or cut diet? i assumed in my head that test is test and more test = more recovery and muscle but just making sure?

Halo isn't that terrible of a mass builder. It's great on a recomp diet as I recommend it often. Recomp diets are where I see a much greater benefit.

j2jud thank you:yep:
Anytime

hey jud whats r thots on androsterone like the AMS 1-ad UTTstuff?>

do you think i should sell my unopened bottle of the one? ima run 1 bottle with dermacrine in march.....

what do you feel would be a good recomp/lean bulk stack for a beginner PH user, not first timer tho, id like to add 5-10lbs right now im at 200 and 9-10%bf would like to be 215 7% by sept, and will be running Dermacrine and The One in march so the cycle u suggest would be for summer

1-AD utt by AMS is quite weak. You can run it and see some gains but not significant like you would on a diol or diene. If you plan on using The One for hardening and strength, maybe in a recomp or pre-contest, then don't sell it. But if you're looking to add bulk size and strength, sell it and go for something a little more substantial.

A good recomp cycle would consist of either Halodrol + 11-OXO or maybe Epidrol + 11-OXO.

Run Halo at 75mg throughout 6 weeks and 11-OXO ~400mg+.
EPI, run at 30-40mg for 5 weeks and the same standard for 11-OXO. I wouldn't use much else unless you can get a hold of some real 1-AD. If you want to extend a cycle for a long duration, consider stacking 11-OXO, Halo, and if you can find any 19-Nor. I would suggest dosages similar to what I've laid out above, but limit 19-Nor to 30-60mg.

Jason Newman

03-01-2010, 02:16 PM

There shouldn't be any problem stacking all of those together except in high dosages. Obviously you shouldn't use the methyl for very long (6 weeks with most). You'll only have damage to liver and kidney when you're using high amounts of hepatoxic compounds or long durations of 17aa compounds.

I've been doing research on SARMs but haven't come to any solid conclusion on S4. Orally, it seems to have done an alright job. However, a major side of vision loss has been noted in dosages of ~75mg. So, be wary of how much you use. I'm very interested in having a more in-depth look at them.

I wouldn't go over 100mg/day. Going over that is just a shit ton of sides and a more slanted cost-benefit ratio.

Halo isn't that terrible of a mass builder. It's great on a recomp diet as I recommend it often. Recomp diets are where I see a much greater benefit.

Anytime

1-AD utt by AMS is quite weak. You can run it and see some gains but not significant like you would on a diol or diene. If you plan on using The One for hardening and strength, maybe in a recomp or pre-contest, then don't sell it. But if you're looking to add bulk size and strength, sell it and go for something a little more substantial.

A good recomp cycle would consist of either Halodrol + 11-OXO or maybe Epidrol + 11-OXO.

Run Halo at 75mg throughout 6 weeks and 11-OXO ~400mg+.
EPI, run at 30-40mg for 5 weeks and the same standard for 11-OXO. I wouldn't use much else unless you can get a hold of some real 1-AD. If you want to extend a cycle for a long duration, consider stacking 11-OXO, Halo, and if you can find any 19-Nor. I would suggest dosages similar to what I've laid out above, but limit 19-Nor to 30-60mg.
appreciated Jud, but was looking for adding about 15lbs over 2 cycles and having it STICK do you feel my next cycle should be dermacrine and Hdrol for 4 weeks? at 75mg of hrol per day? i wnat gains buyt not a bulky look as i may be doing a booth around the fall, so dry and hard would be good i kinda plan on recomping and adding mass lil by lil

gottabecool

03-01-2010, 06:06 PM

killercuda426

03-02-2010, 08:13 AM

j2jud im looking to get off the andro gel im on 8 pumps a day.What else can i get my doctor to give me thats good ?And how much to take my doctor dont know much about trt but hes the only one willing to give it to me thanks

gottabecool

03-02-2010, 03:24 PM

any thoughts on the other oral supplements, HCgenerate, HGH up, or other stimulators of a natural hormone?

Con

03-02-2010, 04:02 PM

Posting in the right thread this time......!

Let me get your opinion on these products as far as natural test suppression goes if you don't mind.

ARLI restore
ARLI jungle warfare
GASPARI novedex

HammerStrength12

03-02-2010, 04:20 PM

Posting in the right thread this time......!

Me2 haha

Over-the-counter 'natural' means to restoring HPTA are not going to cut it. SERMs are a must to recover and maintain gains.

How about for something mild like Hdrol or propadrol? Does an otc like reversitol work? I've read all over that it's fine. IF a SERM is necessary for a compound like that, which one do you suggest?

Minnphat

03-02-2010, 06:05 PM

Are there any pro-hormones that work that are still legall??? Where cant they be bought? What about a good legall pct? thanks in advance man...

J2jud

03-02-2010, 09:42 PM

So hows this cycle look (All doses are daily and spread evenly):
Week
1 1-AD UTT 3ml (60mg)
2 1-AD UTT 3ml (60mg)
3 1-AD UTT 3ml (60mg), 11-oxo 300mg
4 11-oxo 300mg, furuza-a 100mg
5 11-oxo 300mg, furuza-a 100mg, superdrol 10mg
6 Furuza-a 250mg, superdrol 20mg

PCT
1 Clomid 250mg 1st day, 150 the rest of the week
2 Clomid 100mg
3 Clomid 75mg
4 Clomid 50mg
5 Clomid 50mg, MAN Primal Male 6 caps
6 Clomid 25mg, MAN Primal Male 6 caps
7 MAN Primal Male 4 caps
8 MAN Primal Male 1 cap

Use cycle support and PCT support, unless someone sends me a custom capsule formula. LOL. Maybe considering doing 10mg of Superdrol on the 4th week too....Would judge all of this on how I felt during the cycle of course.

Cycle looks good, except for some minor details. 60mg of Androsterone might be better around 100mg, but since you're stacking it, it would be fine. Use the SD only if you feel it's necessary. Watch out for gastrointestinal problems with SD. 10-20mg might not be much to cause it but it's still a possibility.

PCT:
- Clomid is way too high, I wouldn't go past 100-125mg. Otherwise, you have a very good PCT set up. Start with Clomid (125/100/75/50/50/25). With that dosing protocol you should be fully recovered.

j2jud im looking to get off the andro gel im on 8 pumps a day.What else can i get my doctor to give me thats good ?And how much to take my doctor dont know much about trt but hes the only one willing to give it to me thanks

any thoughts on the other oral supplements, HCgenerate, HGH up, or other stimulators of a natural hormone?

Those supplements can 'work' just as some amino acids can help increase growth hormone. Of course, you can use GABA, Mucuna Pruriens, and arginine before bed and after your workout. There's not many studies I can say that there's a real solid backing behind many of the claims of these products except the ones I've listed to some degree.

Posting in the right thread this time......!

Let me get your opinion on these products as far as natural test suppression goes if you don't mind.

ARLI restore
ARLI jungle warfare
GASPARI novedex

Restore and novedex have AI's which are typically going to keep testosterone higher and estrogen suppressed. In my mind, they don't have a solid place in PCT except if you have a highly suppressive androgenic steroid being used. Typically, I would recommend using them in the beginning of PCT when there's a question of high aromatization. Around the 5th-7th day for no longer than 1-2 weeks is when I would use them, but on a lower side. However, I dislike anything with ATD. I would recommend using something like 6-OXO, formestane, or even 6-bromo. ATD binds extremely strong to receptors but has a very short half-life making it quite possible to have rebound effects if not taken many times throughout the day.

However, if you decide to use non-steroidal AI's like I3C, etc. you will be able to adjust your dosages and run them more effectively for a little longer period.

Jungle Warefare, not really thinking it's the best for PCT. I'm not sure what is in it as of now. There was a long run of spiked product, which I'm a little concerned about. So, I can't say much about this product. But other natual test boosters can be utilized better in the 2nd-3rd week of PCT.

How about for something mild like Hdrol or propadrol? Does an otc like reversitol work? I've read all over that it's fine. IF a SERM is necessary for a compound like that, which one do you suggest?

I never recommend using Reversitol. It goes against everything I've researched and believe. Sure, you'll eventually recover... but at the cost of gains and libido. SERMs are much more cost effective (cheap) and restore your HPTA much more quickly than some otc route. What you've been reading is bro-science all over the net. Don't buy into it.
I always recommend using clomid over nolva in most cases.

Jason Newman

03-02-2010, 09:54 PM

what do you think about a H-drol and Dermacrine cycle in July/aug for mass and LEAN DRY gains without adipose gain JUD
sides, gains, dosages

ADRAKE21

03-03-2010, 12:15 PM

Jud, what do you think of this cutting stack
week 1-8 CEL eqplex-"bold" @ 800 mgs ED
week 4-8 sublingal epistane 30-40 mgs ED (what dose you think is good?)
week 5-8 BCS labs testaflex "tren" 75 mgs ED ( will use arimidex for gyno suprression .5 mg EOD)

will use clomid and nolva for pct. do you think i should also keep arimdex in with the pct? will also throw in a natty test booster. aprreciate the help

gottabecool

03-03-2010, 02:07 PM

Cycle looks good, except for some minor details. 60mg of Androsterone might be better around 100mg, but since you're stacking it, it would be fine. Use the SD only if you feel it's necessary. Watch out for gastrointestinal problems with SD. 10-20mg might not be much to cause it but it's still a possibility.

PCT:
- Clomid is way too high, I wouldn't go past 100-125mg. Otherwise, you have a very good PCT set up. Start with Clomid (125/100/75/50/50/25). With that dosing protocol you should be fully recovered.

Those supplements can 'work' just as some amino acids can help increase growth hormone. Of course, you can use GABA, Mucuna Pruriens, and arginine before bed and after your workout. There's not many studies I can say that there's a real solid backing behind many of the claims of these products except the ones I've listed to some degree.

Great info as always buddy. I am honestly on the fence with superdrol in general, I have some, but that doesn't mean I NEED to use it. Might opt for a milder compound, epi, d-plex, etc...or none. Definitely depends on how I feel.

I might up the dose of the Androsterone then, it would shorten the cycle though as I only have 1 bottle and don't intend on buying another. I have plenty of Fura though so I could extend it back out with more of that instead. I'll figure it out as it happens.

Will take your advice on the Clomid dosing. Anything else I can add to the PCT to make sure the gains and recovery go as planned? I have ALR's Restore (Which has 6-bromo) also, but am willing to get whatever is needed.

FaMeRoKz

03-04-2010, 01:34 AM

Running Palumbo diet...which compound would be more effective on a cut...? Hdrol or Havoc? I would like to shed as much bodyfat as possible...

gottabecool

03-04-2010, 11:15 AM

Can you Explain the difference between
Furaguno (5!- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17"-tetrahydropyranol 0.033g)
and
Furaza-a (5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetradropyranol ether 50 mg)
Please?

gottabecool

03-08-2010, 09:18 AM

What is 6-bromo and how does it actually effect test production (I.E. does it cause shutdown)?

Is 11-oxo safe for my wife to take?

gottabecool

03-08-2010, 11:13 AM

And what would PCT look like for a woman after 11-oxo, if it is ok?

fatbackgoal

03-08-2010, 12:53 PM

J2,

I am looking to start my first run with something that will assist with me dropping bodyfat with the idea of competing in October. Currently I am 42 years old, 315 lbs, 6'5" at 21%(not sure if this is correct I think it may be a little higher). I was given of doing the following as a first stack and would like to get your thoughts.

Need2slin
Hcgenerate
N2KTS
Gear

Thanks for your feedback.

Jason Newman

03-10-2010, 01:46 PM

Jud what are you thoughts on 75mg of h-drol in oral form with 400mg Bold capsule form per day for 4-6weeks>? bold weeks 2-6?

gottabecool

03-10-2010, 01:52 PM

should one be concerned with cortisol control during PCT? Product/dosing to combat this?

J2jud

03-10-2010, 09:35 PM

I'll get back to ya guys tomorrow. Been a bit busy with prepping and exams.

gottabecool

03-12-2010, 11:02 AM

Does PCT with a SERM become less important on TRT...Not like I am concerned with bringing back my natural test production, right?

Widge

03-14-2010, 05:57 PM

is halo is an exmaple of a good drug for lean gains and recomping, what is an exmaple of a drug great for mass building and useing on a bulk cycle?

"Rodz"

03-14-2010, 10:28 PM

I'll get back to ya guys tomorrow. Been a bit busy with prepping and exams.

Good luck Bro!

Priorities!

These questions will still be here tomorrow

GRAVESY

03-22-2010, 03:45 PM

Do you like there is a PH that could support running T3?

GRAVESY

03-22-2010, 04:37 PM

Do you like there is a PH that could support running T3?

Also what do you thinks is the best for cutting down?
Prbly going to run a Fburner with a PH. Interested in what you think of one supporting T3. But if you feel that there really is nothing out there, one without a lot of sides like bloat would be nice to run with Clen or and EC stack.

GRAVESY

03-22-2010, 06:39 PM

First Time:
H Drol (CEL most likely) seems to be the gold standard for first time and looking for a recomp.
A friend rants about P6 Black (cellucor) back when he took it

Thoughts on both, mainly P6 cause seems that you can not find that much on it, except peopling basing one another.

needtogetaas

03-23-2010, 02:32 AM

gator_mclusky

03-23-2010, 02:58 AM

Good read Needto and I have to say that everyone Ive talked to in the gym has nothing but great things to say about this and your post is spot on from what Ive seen.....

Glad to see facts and real usage posted!!!

gator

Jason Newman

03-23-2010, 03:00 AM

Fadogia looks very very promising! i know my next cycle is going to look like this

Turinabol LV 4-6weeks at 50-75mg depending on effects and feel

PCT
HCgenerate
Unleashed
Post Cycle
and Bridge at the end of cycle
with GEAR between meals for added nitrogen retention! and ill def add HCgenerate if my libido is droppin, because u gotta keep the MRS happy ;)

russianstar

03-23-2010, 03:39 AM

Can you Explain the difference between
Furaguno (5!- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17"-tetrahydropyranol 0.033g)
and
Furaza-a (5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetradropyranol ether 50 mg)
Please?

Lol, its exactly the same, look at the chemical structure, one is just written differently, the bottom one is correct.
The top one is dosed at 33mg, the bottom at 50mg.

If you need any help as to its methods of action, please feel free to pm me.

R.S

CC REP
N2BM MOD.
NEED2SLIN PRODUCT INNOVATOR
GAUSE INSTITUTE, BIOCHEMIST.

russianstar

03-23-2010, 03:42 AM

Jud what are you thoughts on 75mg of h-drol in oral form with 400mg Bold capsule form per day for 4-6weeks>? bold weeks 2-6?

H-drol dose is ok, but dont run for more than 5 weeks, week 4 is the magic week, where fat loss and strength gains really escalate,but the bolde is dosed far too low to see anything, the conversion rates are to small, 800mg would give you noticeable results, but it needs to be run for 8 weeks in capsule form to see its true benefits, due to serum plasma levels.
Make sure you have a pct ready to make sure your recovery leads to even better body composition and you hold all your gains.

Andrew732

03-23-2010, 05:18 AM

Androsterone is definitely more effective at 100mg as with H-drol, Dermarine would be a nice ph to stack with Androsterone, it kind of acts like a 1-2 punch. Also there is no need to take more than 75mgs of Clomid, I also suggest taking a small dose exemestane along HCGenerate for the lowering of SHBG's and LH boosting properties, along exemestane's estrogen maintenance/lowering effect.

J2jud

03-23-2010, 12:15 PM

Hey guys. I'll be posting answers to Q&A later today. Been a crazy couple of weeks.

fatbackgoal

03-23-2010, 02:42 PM

Hey guys. I'll be posting answers to Q&A later today. Been a crazy couple of weeks.

No problem I am sure school is tough. My question has changed slightly. I would like to know thoughts on this run:
NTBM Need2slin, forged burner and hcgenerate. I would possibly also add 11 oxo and dermacrine. Would like to get your thoughts on this as I would like to do a show in late Sept/early Oct.

IronCrusher

03-23-2010, 03:17 PM

Can you Explain the difference between
Furaguno (5!- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17"-tetrahydropyranol 0.033g)
and
Furaza-a (5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetradropyranol ether 50 mg)
Please?

etioallocholan is synonomous with 5-androstan , they mean the same thing.

Oh and .033 grams = 33mg just move the decimal over 3 to convert to mg from grams.

And it looks like someone can't spell the thing properly. (I don't mean you)

"Rodz"

03-23-2010, 05:54 PM

I'm just about on my 4th week with HcGenerate, i'm taking it along with oral test, Its been really helpful. Within 3 days my libido and function returned, along with a unexpected surprise for my GF in the morning LOLOL.

More info in my journal

M-Rods Transformation Challenge - RX Muscle Forums

J2jud

03-23-2010, 11:09 PM

!READ!
- Those that are answering questions (esp. with all the Need2build recommendations), please stop. Questions about them are fine. I'm sorry, but as I stated this in the beginning of the thread, you'll have to refrain from replying to questions form other members. Thank you. If you would like an open forum discussion please make another thread or PM me.

what do you think about a H-drol and Dermacrine cycle in July/aug for mass and LEAN DRY gains without adipose gain JUD
sides, gains, dosages

We have spoken about this.

Halo is a great prohormone and can be stack with almost anything you wish. I'm not too impressed with dermacrine or it's effectiveness, but that's only from personal experiences other than my own.

Halo's side effects are next to none, really. As expected, slight atrophy of testicles, back pumps, and very light liver strain. Typically, 50-75mg is a great range for muscle gain. Some have ventured even higher in dosages, but I find that it's really not necessary to go above 75mg for most users.

Jud, what do you think of this cutting stack
week 1-8 CEL eqplex-"bold" @ 800 mgs ED
week 4-8 sublingal epistane 30-40 mgs ED (what dose you think is good?)
week 5-8 BCS labs testaflex "tren" 75 mgs ED ( will use arimidex for gyno suprression .5 mg EOD)

will use clomid and nolva for pct. do you think i should also keep arimdex in with the pct? will also throw in a natty test booster. aprreciate the help

Cycle looks to be more advanced. It's a good cycle for advanced users. I would rearrange the cycle a bit, but it looks fine the way it has been planned. Just personal preference. Everything seems to be dosed properly.

You don't need to use arimidex in PCT. In fact, it might be counterproductive. If you're combining clomid and nolva, you'll have more than enough to restore your HPTA. I would only use clomid, but many prefer to combine the two and it's not a bad idea either.

Great info as always buddy. I am honestly on the fence with superdrol in general, I have some, but that doesn't mean I NEED to use it. Might opt for a milder compound, epi, d-plex, etc...or none. Definitely depends on how I feel.

I might up the dose of the Androsterone then, it would shorten the cycle though as I only have 1 bottle and don't intend on buying another. I have plenty of Fura though so I could extend it back out with more of that instead. I'll figure it out as it happens.

Will take your advice on the Clomid dosing. Anything else I can add to the PCT to make sure the gains and recovery go as planned? I have ALR's Restore (Which has 6-bromo) also, but am willing to get whatever is needed.

Stay away from anything with AI's in them that aren't natural. Adding in a natural test booster can translate into better libido and a positive effect in PCT. No 6-bromo.

Running Palumbo diet...which compound would be more effective on a cut...? Hdrol or Havoc? I would like to shed as much bodyfat as possible...

Both can be equally effective. Neither will help you in body fat reduction. However, epistane will have a much better effect on muscle mass preservation, but can have a greater effect on how well you recover. Halo is and will remain my favorite choice in a lot of applications. Also, halo will have the least impact on your cholesterol levels.

Can you Explain the difference between
Furaguno (5!- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17"-tetrahydropyranol 0.033g)
and
Furaza-a (5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetradropyranol ether 50 mg)
Please?

As someone has already pointed out, the compounds are exactly the same. Different suffixes, but the same meaning. One has 33mg and the other has 50mg.

What is 6-bromo and how does it actually effect test production (I.E. does it cause shutdown)?

Is 11-oxo safe for my wife to take?

6-Bromo (6 beta-Bromodione) is an 'suicide' Aromatase Inhibitor. Permanently bound to the estrogen receptor. It has been said by Patrick Arnold that a the alpha isomer will produce 6-alpha, bromo-testosterone. So, in theory it could come to a point of counter-productivity and cause shutdown, but this would surely be at high dosages to lead to a high concentration the the steroid.

I wouldn't be comfortable recommending any prohormone/designer steroid to a female. However, this particular prohormone (11-OXO) may be of some use in as little as 200-300mg. I wouldn't dose very high at all.

J2,

I am looking to start my first run with something that will assist with me dropping bodyfat with the idea of competing in October. Currently I am 42 years old, 315 lbs, 6'5" at 21%(not sure if this is correct I think it may be a little higher). I was given of doing the following as a first stack and would like to get your thoughts.

Need2slin
Hcgenerate
N2KTS
Gear

Thanks for your feedback.

I am not familiar with these products. For a first time user or pro-hormones and designer steroids, I would recommend using a halodrol clone. There are many companies who produce this highly anabolic compound that will be one of the most enjoyable cycles you'll ever run. Not to mention, PCT is very smooth.

However, at your current percent of body fat, I would highly recommend dieting naturally before cycling any anabolic steroid. Maybe the stack mentioned in your post, if non-hormonal, would be a good choice until you're at least 15% body fat. This is just what I would advise. In your cut, you could run multiple cycles and PCT's which will be very taxing on your body... and I do not recommend this. One in the initial to mid-phase of your cut may be acceptable along with a 12 week non-methylated prohormone followed by a 6 week methyl designer steroid leading up to competition would be idea.

Jud what are you thoughts on 75mg of h-drol in oral form with 400mg Bold capsule form per day for 4-6weeks>? bold weeks 2-6?

Bold would be very expensive and (IMO) not worth the money. 75mg of halo is a great cycle dosage. I would stack that with something like P-Stanz or a Furaza clone (non-methylated). non-methyl, run for around 8-10 weeks and the methyl around 5-6 weeks.

should one be concerned with cortisol control during PCT? Product/dosing to combat this?

Cortisol can be of some concern during PCT, but you can over-come this by just eating a surplus of calories and maybe some Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol/ suppress-C by CEL.

Does PCT with a SERM become less important on TRT...Not like I am concerned with bringing back my natural test production, right?

It is very unlikely that you will need to use PCT while on TRT. Some like to have a small PCT while on TRT to combat some of the initial negatives of coming off a great deal of AAS. But no, you don't really need a SERM while on TRT.

is halo is an exmaple of a good drug for lean gains and recomping, what is an exmaple of a drug great for mass building and useing on a bulk cycle?

Yes. Halo is great for many applications. My favorite mass builder is now banned (Phera). There are some others like M1,4ADD which is an active compound itself and will convert into dianabol in a small amount. To add to that, EPI/Havoc compounds are great for adding dry/lean mass but can be adapted to really any type of goal/diet. Superdrol clones are good, but I usually never recommend it to many users. 19-NOR was banned, which left us with the 13-ethyl-methoxygona variant which can be mildly good for bulking. If you can find some legitimate M1,4ADD (very rare) you can dose around 100-120mg and will notice some intense mass gains.

Do you like there is a PH that could support running T3?

You are referring to 3,3-diiodo, I believe. I'm not too fond of screwing with your thyroid as it can have a very negative impact on your thyroid activity. So no, I'm not very fond of their use.

Also what do you thinks is the best for cutting down?
Prbly going to run a Fburner with a PH. Interested in what you think of one supporting T3. But if you feel that there really is nothing out there, one without a lot of sides like bloat would be nice to run with Clen or and EC stack.

I would suggest using 11-OXO (adrenosterone) for 8-10 weeks 400mg or P-Stanz for 8 weeks, stacked with Halo 50-75mg (6 weeks). If you're looking for more strength in the designer, look into EPI/Havoc for 5 weeks towards the end of your cut.

First Time:
H Drol (CEL most likely) seems to be the gold standard for first time and looking for a recomp.
A friend rants about P6 Black (cellucor) back when he took it

Thoughts on both, mainly P6 cause seems that you can not find that much on it, except peopling basing one another.

I would never really suggest running anything else except HALO. I promise (if pure compound) the cycle will produce results to be proud of. The cycle will be very enjoyable. Considering that diet is in check, nothing should stop you making 10-15lbs off one 6 week cycle ran at 50-75mg.

Those supplements can 'work' just as some amino acids can help increase growth hormone. Of course, you can use GABA, Mucuna Pruriens, and arginine before bed and after your workout. There's not many studies I can say that there's a real solid backing behind many of the claims of these products except the ones I've listed to some degree.

http://www.superhumanradio.com/research/Asian%20J%20Androl%202005%20Fadogia%20agrestis.pdf

Clomid is not a supplement. Also, it is a proven method to recovery unline Over-The-Counter methods to HPTA restoration. There are not enough studies with supporting evidence in human testing, specifically on steroid use combined with natural supplementation that one can recover and restore HPTA function. I cannot see a legitimate study conducted properly to encompass steroid use and post cycle therapy along with natural means to restoration.

I would never lead one of my clients I advise to simply run an all natural method to recovery against something proven to work time and time again. As or recent, I have only been receiving terrible messages of how their natural OTC PCT has failed them and blood work to prove they're still shut down... nothing had changed.

These natural methods of recovery have created nothing but problems for many of the guys who were ill advised. Mostly by company representatives.

Most who do recover quite fast, even without use of a SERM are adolescents who have unstable endocrine systems to begin with. Not all of them experience the same results and need a solution to their problem.

Now, some AI complex product may be able to help a user recover from a mild cycle of an anabolic androgenic steroid... but most don't recover in what I would consider a 'timely manner.' These users usually end up losing a considerable portion of their gains.

No problem I am sure school is tough. My question has changed slightly. I would like to know thoughts on this run:
NTBM Need2slin, forged burner and hcgenerate. I would possibly also add 11 oxo and dermacrine. Would like to get your thoughts on this as I would like to do a show in late Sept/early Oct.

You would experience some muscle preservation and an increase in metabolism, obviously; but would depend largely on your diet and workout regimen. I would recommend running this the closer you get to competition time.

russianstar

03-24-2010, 07:49 PM

J2jud

03-24-2010, 08:26 PM

I have to say some of the above is incorrect.

But as you have asked us not to comment i wont say what i want too , but some of your reccomendations, and ideas especialy the combining of nolva and clomid are totaly outdated, I am sure your aware of the implications combining the 2 together can have.

You also said

Cortisol can be of some concern during PCT, but you can over-come this by just eating a surplus of calories and maybe some Androst-5-ene-3b, 7b, 17b-triol/ suppress-C by CEL,

If you eat a surplus of calories while cortisol is high, you will store more fat, its the stress hormone that causes an increase in fat storage, through a few pathways including cAMP suppression, its catabolic so it eats muscle, an increase in protein would be better, Suppress-c is a great choice though to add to a pct, or my personal favourite 100mg of 11-ketosterone, it doesnt suppress at that dose but blocks cortisol very effectivley.

There were lots of other things too, but i havent come to critique, and shall say no more here, best of luck with your competition.

CC REP
N2BM REP
NEED2SLIN INNOVATOR
BIOCHEMIST GAUSE INSTITUTE

I never said comments towards myself were out of the question. I just ask to please not respond to persons asking questions. Some took it to an extreme by blatant product pimping, which I didn't appreciate.

I don't believe anything I've said is incorrect. You have a difference in opinion, but that doesn't make me 'incorrect.' Also, you have made assumptions because you've either not read my comments and or questions correctly... or Need2 has an agenda because he was asked to not sling product in my thread. I have no problem with anyone, but I kindly ask that no one respond to questions unless addressing myself. There was a page long product information sheet that was needless to say over-the-top.

In regards to nolva and clomid being combined.
- I never recommended that they be stacked at all, if you've read my comment to the question. I stated that he would be better off simply using clomid only as he wanted to combine the two. So, you are wrong with your assumption.

In regards to cortisol.
- How does one take surplus of calories and confuse that? I imagine most users are going to have a surplus of protein instead of carbohydrates when I recommend 'surplus of calories.' So, eating surplus of protein would translate into 'surplus of calories,' no? Because you saying 'increasing protein' doesn't make much sense to your argument unless you come under the assumption that I'm meaning eating shitty sources of calories (sugar) by me saying 'surplus of calories.' As you stated yourself 'increasing protein' which translates to an increased caloric intake.

If there's so much more you disagree about or which you would like to go ahead and discuss. By all means, go ahead. If you'd like I can open another thread simply for discussion?

needtogetaas

03-24-2010, 08:50 PM

great thread going on here. Lots of discussion and debate. All good thing I think. However I will ask my people to let [COLOR=green]J2jud[/COLO"]RX Muscle Forums - View Profile: J2jud@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: J2jud</title>@@AMEPARAM@@J2jud have his thread. He made this thread for people to ask him some questions and get his thoughts on things. So lets just let the thread be what it was intended to be. Thanks guys.

gottabecool

03-25-2010, 04:13 PM

As someone has already pointed out, the compounds are exactly the same. Different suffixes, but the same meaning. One has 33mg and the other has 50mg.

Awesome, I knew the quantity difference. Just making sure that the compound was the same.
I tried it at 66mg/day when I was on a p-plex cycle, dried out my knees horribly, and instantly. That normal?

ADRAKE21

03-25-2010, 04:28 PM

jud what do you think about dymethazine? and how long and what dosages you think is okay for a cutting cycle?

TLF BABY

03-31-2010, 01:35 PM

whats your opinon on stano-drol by cel? 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one – 150mg. any good?

gottabecool

03-31-2010, 04:29 PM

Alright J2, so I started my cycle, on the first week, the range on the numbers (I.E. 225-375) is showing how I am ramping it up this week. I have never felt comfortable just starting at the high dose...But anyways, How do I look:

(All doses are daily and spread evenly):
Cycle
1 1-AD UTT 60-100mg, 11-Sterone 225mg-375, Fura 0-100mg, Cycle assist 6-8/day

2 1-AD UTT 100mg, 11-Sterone 375mg, Fura 100mg, H-drol 50mg, Cycle assist 8/day

3 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 150mg, h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

4 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 200mg, h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

5 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 200mg(Maybe 250), h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

PCT
1 Clomid 75mg, MAN Primal Male 6 caps, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

2 Clomid 50mg, MAN Primal Male 4 caps, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

3 Clomid 25mg, MAN Primal Male 1 cap, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

4 PCT Assist 2/day

gottabecool

04-01-2010, 12:06 PM

Any problem maybe starting the Primal Male at a low dose (1-2/day) on cycle to keep the libido going/wife happy?

GRAVESY

04-01-2010, 05:55 PM

gottabecool

04-02-2010, 05:34 PM

Looks like I am going to get a blood test about 2 weeks after PCT is finished, will my results be skewed from the cycle? Would pushing the test back a little further be my best option?

GRAVESY

04-10-2010, 02:11 PM

What do you think:

HammerPlex from Valhalla
2a, 17a DI Methyl Etiocholan 3-One, 17b-Ol @ 12.5mg
17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol @ 12.5mg
twice a day.

LiverJuice by Primordial Performance
Formestane(if i get to bloaty) by Primordial Performance {should i keep it going in pct}.

PCT
Clomid 50/50/25/and 25 if needed
X-Lean by IBE maybe an anti cortisol.
LiverJuice

do you think i need nolva or arom, or ok with clomid?

what do you think of Primordial's Formestane (4-hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione) @ 20mg per serving? Told i could take it during or post, help cut on bloat. have started my ph of above, not the formestane yet.
What if anything does it covert to or close to/similiar to?

TLF BABY

04-13-2010, 11:46 AM

I have a bottle of D-zine by CEL(2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine) and am planning on running it for 4 weeks at 30mg per day and than clomid for pct. does this look acceptable? i also have the evo stack by alri. can i incorporate this into the cycle or run it after? or combine them somehow?

J2jud

04-13-2010, 10:31 PM

Awesome, I knew the quantity difference. Just making sure that the compound was the same.
I tried it at 66mg/day when I was on a p-plex cycle, dried out my knees horribly, and instantly. That normal?

With an Fura clone, yes.

jud what do you think about dymethazine? and how long and what dosages you think is okay for a cutting cycle?

The compound has very similar effects to superdrol. However, this particular compound has been noted to increase blood pressure much more than expected and the azine molecule may play a role in liver function. It basically breaks into two superdrol molecules. 4-5 weeks at 15-20mg are a good range to run the cycle. There are a few clones running around. If I were you, I would just simply run a superdrol clone cycle for 4-5 weeks.

whats your opinon on stano-drol by cel? 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one – 150mg. any good?

Not really worth much effort in using. Since being similar to DHT, the effects will be somewhat similar, not entirely, but similar. It's a clone of Methyl Masterdrol.

I see this compound being used towards the end of a cycle or cutting/prepping cycle for hardening and strength. Other than that, it's not really of much use. It would be of use if ran with Fura/Furuza-A/Furazadrol as it has the tendency to increase androgen density.

Alright J2, so I started my cycle, on the first week, the range on the numbers (I.E. 225-375) is showing how I am ramping it up this week. I have never felt comfortable just starting at the high dose...But anyways, How do I look:

(All doses are daily and spread evenly):
Cycle
1 1-AD UTT 60-100mg, 11-Sterone 225mg-375, Fura 0-100mg, Cycle assist 6-8/day

2 1-AD UTT 100mg, 11-Sterone 375mg, Fura 100mg, H-drol 50mg, Cycle assist 8/day

3 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 150mg, h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

4 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 200mg, h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

5 11-Sterone 450mg, fura 200mg(Maybe 250), h-drol 75mg, Cycle assist 8/day

PCT
1 Clomid 75mg, MAN Primal Male 6 caps, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

2 Clomid 50mg, MAN Primal Male 4 caps, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

3 Clomid 25mg, MAN Primal Male 1 cap, A.I. Post Cycle support 2/day

4 PCT Assist 2/day

The PH/DS cycle looks decent, but if you're going to run Fura, you may want to increase to 200mg ran steadily throughout the cycle. What I've noticed with this compound (Fura) is that it can be very productive if ran for longer lengths of time (6+ weeks). Everything else seems to be ok.

PCT. You may want to add in another week of clomid as 3 weeks may or may not be enough to fully recover. Add one more week of 50mg and end on 25mg.

Any problem maybe starting the Primal Male at a low dose (1-2/day) on cycle to keep the libido going/wife happy?

Sure. Use it as you please. You may want to invest in some research chem (cialis) or see how the Primal Male works out for you. Try using yohimbine HCl at 2-3mg, 30min before sexual activities.

What do you think:

HammerPlex from Valhalla
2a, 17a DI Methyl Etiocholan 3-One, 17b-Ol @ 12.5mg
17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol @ 12.5mg
twice a day.

LiverJuice by Primordial Performance
Formestane(if i get to bloaty) by Primordial Performance {should i keep it going in pct}.

PCT
Clomid 50/50/25/and 25 if needed
X-Lean by IBE maybe an anti cortisol.
LiverJuice

do you think i need nolva or arom, or ok with clomid?

I dislike combo designer steroids like this. Especially whencombining Superdrol and phera. In my opinion use 1 cap a day for 4-5 weeks. However, I would suggest getting either one and running them separately.

Looks like I am going to get a blood test about 2 weeks after PCT is finished, will my results be skewed from the cycle? Would pushing the test back a little further be my best option?

It's highly possible that you will have skewed LH, FSH, and or Test levels. It really depends on how you respond to the clomid. Also, if it's just a standard blood panel checking test and estrogen levels, you might be fine.

what do you think of Primordial's Formestane (4-hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione) @ 20mg per serving? Told i could take it during or post, help cut on bloat. have started my ph of above, not the formestane yet.
What if anything does it covert to or close to/similiar to?

Formestane is an aromatase inhibitor and I have not seen any interaction that would make a metabolite or conversion into something else. Formestane is better ran in 20-60mg, depending on the goal. However, don't combine this with tamoxifen as it may inhibit it's interaction.

I have a bottle of D-zine by CEL(2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine) and am planning on running it for 4 weeks at 30mg per day and than clomid for pct. does this look acceptable? i also have the evo stack by alri. can i incorporate this into the cycle or run it after? or combine them somehow?

You can incorporate the evo stack into your cycle, but would advise against using it in PCT. On the D-Zine, start out at 15mg and increase after the first week... but I would generally wait till the second week to increase dosages, especially on this designer. Run clomid for 4-5 weeks.

GRAVESY

04-14-2010, 08:52 AM

I dislike combo designer steroids like this. Especially whencombining Superdrol and phera. In my opinion use 1 cap a day for 4-5 weeks. However, I would suggest getting either one and running them separately.

.

thanks,
I take it final exams and papers are coming up quick and fast, it is that time of the year.

I have the combo so going to run it as on the bottle.
yeah at such a dose it is like only getting half of the typical dosage, thought of this after the fact, but of 2 not one. Next time if i do not run a Test cycle and do another PH, depending on the timing that I have, will dfntly stick to a single PH. Either and Hdrol, or if the guy still has it, a TrenAce ph(but it is in very very limited stock)

GRAVESY

04-14-2010, 08:57 AM

Formestane is an aromatase inhibitor and I have not seen any interaction that would make a metabolite or conversion into something else. Formestane is better ran in 20-60mg, depending on the goal. However, don't combine this with tamoxifen as it may inhibit it's interaction.

.

Thanks, i will just keep this and run it with the clomid and not worry about picking up Nolva.

Could i extend it past the pct for a week or two to dry to take on some fo the drying/harding effects.? Run it up to the point tht i leave on vacation to ireland, would be about week and half continuation of pct of just form not the clomid

Deano

04-14-2010, 09:38 AM

Ok, I'm just going to throw this question out there. I live in the uk and it is becoming common knowledge that a lot of competing women ( physique, figure and fitness) are now resorting to taking epistane in their prep. I know of 2 women that use it (and I must say they are really hot and extremely feminine!) They say it gives them similar effects to anavar and a lot cheaper. They also mentioned with so many UG labs now if they purchased anavar, do they really know that it is anavar? And not anadrol or dianabol! At least this way they know what they are taking and control it accordingly. I didn't ask them how they cycled it though. Didn't know if anybody out there has heard of anything similar?
Could this be the new trend in female contest prep?

gottabecool

04-14-2010, 10:23 AM

The PH/DS cycle looks decent, but if you're going to run Fura, you may want to increase to 200mg ran steadily throughout the cycle. What I've noticed with this compound (Fura) is that it can be very productive if ran for longer lengths of time (6+ weeks). Everything else seems to be ok.

PCT. You may want to add in another week of clomid as 3 weeks may or may not be enough to fully recover. Add one more week of 50mg and end on 25mg.

I have actually been feeling pretty superstar'ish on this stack and the doses were upped. Currently
11-sterone @ 450mg
Fura @ 348mg (yes, 348, LOL)
H-drol @ 75mg

Considering upping the Fura another 99....

Have very little side effects, gained 8lbs last week doing the same Keto diet I lost 30lbs on this year, so I am assuming massive glycogen storage. My knees ache just a little, was a little worse for a couple days, I added 2 more cycle assist caps with my mid-day dose and it was either a properly timed coincidence, or it helped alleviate the knee pain. :dunno:

As for PCT, I wasn't overly concerned with "Recovery"....I am on TRT.

Thanks again bud, How's you feeling with your prep? Is your prep "Assisted"?

TLF BABY

04-15-2010, 02:01 PM

You can incorporate the evo stack into your cycle, but would advise against using it in PCT. On the D-Zine, start out at 15mg and increase after the first week... but I would generally wait till the second week to increase dosages, especially on this designer. Run clomid for 4-5 weeks.

thanks for the info. i think ill just wait to run the evo and go with the d zine solo. ill run the zine 15/30/30/30 and than the clomid 75/50/50/25 is that a good enough pct dosage or do i need to change it?

G-Roy

04-16-2010, 10:46 AM

primordial performance is having a 40% off everything sale right now. Are any of their products worth looking into? I havent seen many great reviews outside of people logging products on their forum. I'm considering the 1-t liqua-vade and their natural recovery stack or turinabol liqua-vade.

HammerStrength12

04-17-2010, 01:02 PM

Jud,

I was hoping to get your take on the 4 components of the ALRI evo stack. I got a free box of it a while ago, but I'm a little suspicious because all over these forums, I hear things like "I gained 10 lbs on it" "the product is all natural" "it's FAR safer than prohormones," "its not a prohormone" etc...

I was hoping you could clear up my suspicions for me, and let me know whether my line of thinking is right or wrong.

1) Jungle Warfare has a methylated compound in it. How is this "natural." Isn't that basically a prohormone? Isn't it misleading to say that it's not at all hepatoxic?

2) If the stack is natural, doesn't aromatize and doesn't shut down your natural production of test, why do they include Restore, a pct product in it?

3) Do you know how badass mass and pro anabol differ from jungle warfare scientifically speaking? I can't seem to find a straight answer on this one, only people copying and pasting what's written on the side of the bottle.

Thanks for the help

HammerStrength12

04-17-2010, 01:10 PM

Also,
Could you explain to us the optimal diets to follow while on certain common compounds (ie methylated vs non-methylated) and the scientific reasoning behind it? (Like why some PH need to be take w/ fat, etc..) Thanks

Jason Newman

04-17-2010, 04:25 PM

gottabecool

04-19-2010, 11:03 AM

Jud,

So knowing what you are taking in school and seeing that you are a bright guy....what do you plan on doing with it? Actually continuing down the medical road? Next guru like Aceto/Palumbo/etc?

You ever going to get onto off-topic radio?

spritz0

04-19-2010, 03:34 PM

J2jud, I have a question... I just got 2 bottles oral winni 5mg, 100tabs and one bottle dbol 5mg 100 tabs- how would one do a stack on this??

J2jud

04-19-2010, 07:32 PM

Hey guys, sorry for the delays to your questions. I have a research paper due tomorrow and will be able to post the Q&A tomorrow evening. Forgive me for the delay's guys. Hang in there!

GRAVESY

04-19-2010, 07:36 PM

Hey guys, sorry for the delays to your questions. I have a research paper due tomorrow and will be able to post the Q&A tomorrow evening. Forgive me for the delay's guys. Hang in there!

Aint No thing. Gotta get your stuff done. No Rush. We appreciate your help, so gotta respect what you have to handle for yourself. It is the end of the school year.

HammerStrength12

04-19-2010, 10:17 PM

Good luck with the paper!

gottabecool

04-20-2010, 11:49 AM

Hey guys, sorry for the delays to your questions. I have a research paper due tomorrow and will be able to post the Q&A tomorrow evening. Forgive me for the delay's guys. Hang in there!

This is BS. We are far more important then school. :mad:

Good luck man.

HammerStrength12

04-23-2010, 09:51 AM

J2jud

04-24-2010, 05:46 PM

thanks,
I take it final exams and papers are coming up quick and fast, it is that time of the year.

I have the combo so going to run it as on the bottle.
yeah at such a dose it is like only getting half of the typical dosage, thought of this after the fact, but of 2 not one. Next time if i do not run a Test cycle and do another PH, depending on the timing that I have, will dfntly stick to a single PH. Either and Hdrol, or if the guy still has it, a TrenAce ph(but it is in very very limited stock)

Halo is lots of fun. 75mg-100mg is a great range to run for 6 weeks.

Thanks, i will just keep this and run it with the clomid and not worry about picking up Nolva.

Could i extend it past the pct for a week or two to dry to take on some fo the drying/harding effects.? Run it up to the point tht i leave on vacation to ireland, would be about week and half continuation of pct of just form not the clomid

Sure, you could extend it. Just make sure you're not using a lot of it for a long duration. Could possibly lead to a negative return.

Ok, I'm just going to throw this question out there. I live in the uk and it is becoming common knowledge that a lot of competing women ( physique, figure and fitness) are now resorting to taking epistane in their prep. I know of 2 women that use it (and I must say they are really hot and extremely feminine!) They say it gives them similar effects to anavar and a lot cheaper. They also mentioned with so many UG labs now if they purchased anavar, do they really know that it is anavar? And not anadrol or dianabol! At least this way they know what they are taking and control it accordingly. I didn't ask them how they cycled it though. Didn't know if anybody out there has heard of anything similar?
Could this be the new trend in female contest prep?

Man, I hope it doesn't become common practice among women figure and bodybuilders to start using epistane. For one it's got more of an androgenic rating than anavar, which we know what kind of sides can come from this. Mild dosages of 10-15mg might be fine, but I wouldn't advise this. Not always can you rely on a supplement company to give you pure compound. A lot of times with smaller companies and or companies who don't test their product with a full spectrum can have tainted compound. By this, I mean that the epistane may not just be epistane and could contain other amounts of steroid which were unaccounted for.

I have actually been feeling pretty superstar'ish on this stack and the doses were upped. Currently
11-sterone @ 450mg
Fura @ 348mg (yes, 348, LOL)
H-drol @ 75mg

Considering upping the Fura another 99....

Have very little side effects, gained 8lbs last week doing the same Keto diet I lost 30lbs on this year, so I am assuming massive glycogen storage. My knees ache just a little, was a little worse for a couple days, I added 2 more cycle assist caps with my mid-day dose and it was either a properly timed coincidence, or it helped alleviate the knee pain. :dunno:

As for PCT, I wasn't overly concerned with "Recovery"....I am on TRT.

Thanks again bud, How's you feeling with your prep? Is your prep "Assisted"?

Thats good news. I forgot you were on TRT.

My prep is going pretty well. I'm dieting naturally this go around with PJ. I just wanted to see what I could do with my body without the drugs. so far, everything is going quite well.

thanks for the info. i think ill just wait to run the evo and go with the d zine solo. ill run the zine 15/30/30/30 and than the clomid 75/50/50/25 is that a good enough pct dosage or do i need to change it?

PCT sounds good. Should be a productive cycle.

primordial performance is having a 40% off everything sale right now. Are any of their products worth looking into? I havent seen many great reviews outside of people logging products on their forum. I'm considering the 1-t liqua-vade and their natural recovery stack or turinabol liqua-vade.

The turinabol should be a good buy. I know a few guys who like PP, but I think it's a bit over-priced. Their pro-hormone line is pretty decent, but outside of that I'm not too impressed by the profiles of their products... especially the prices.

Jud,

I was hoping to get your take on the 4 components of the ALRI evo stack. I got a free box of it a while ago, but I'm a little suspicious because all over these forums, I hear things like "I gained 10 lbs on it" "the product is all natural" "it's FAR safer than prohormones," "its not a prohormone" etc...

I was hoping you could clear up my suspicions for me, and let me know whether my line of thinking is right or wrong.

1) Jungle Warfare has a methylated compound in it. How is this "natural." Isn't that basically a prohormone? Isn't it misleading to say that it's not at all hepatoxic?

2) If the stack is natural, doesn't aromatize and doesn't shut down your natural production of test, why do they include Restore, a pct product in it?

3) Do you know how badass mass and pro anabol differ from jungle warfare scientifically speaking? I can't seem to find a straight answer on this one, only people copying and pasting what's written on the side of the bottle.

Thanks for the help

1.) - Well, just because somethings methylated doesn't necessarily going to translate into liver stress. Since I'm not too familiar with the ingredients, it would be easier to address with an ingredient profile panel. IMO, it's very possible that the product is spiked. Plus, they like to play with the nomenclature of compounds and actual ingredients to throw you off from what they really are.

2.) - Either they are just pushing another product on you (as the misinformed consumer) or there really is active steroid in the product. You should never have to restore your HPTA after a natural product.

3.) - Jungle warefare has a steroidal aromatase inhibitor in it along with some other "natural" actives. A while ago, it was reported to have small amounts of dianabol spiked in it.

- BAM has steroidal saponins used from 5a-25R-Spirostanes to other analogs. Pro-Anabol seems to be a test booster with a known ingredient to increase absorption.

BAM seems to be based off of theory of the 25R acting on androgen receptors and Pro-Anabol is just a libido and test booster.

No Problem.

Also,
Could you explain to us the optimal diets to follow while on certain common compounds (ie methylated vs non-methylated) and the scientific reasoning behind it? (Like why some PH need to be take w/ fat, etc..) Thanks

Diets are relative to the goal of that individual. However, the use of fats in conjunction with non-methylated pro-steroids are utilized to increase the absorption of the compound from the lymphatic system and pass through to the blood. This will not always happen as it has been demonstrated with testosterone undecanoate as compound won't always make it.

Methylated steroids can be take with either food or without. It's recommended to be taken with food sometimes to avoid stomach upset. Other times it's recommended to NOT be taken with food to avoid any problems with absorption. It hasn't been proven that taking a methyl with food can decrease it's absorption, merely theorized.

Jud,

So knowing what you are taking in school and seeing that you are a bright guy....what do you plan on doing with it? Actually continuing down the medical road? Next guru like Aceto/Palumbo/etc?

You ever going to get onto off-topic radio?

Well, as of right now I have some big plans within the year, but I cannot totally divulge the information as of yet. Lets just say I will be involved in the industry.

Other than that, I will be seeking out some options of working with a pharmaceutical company, bio labs, or maybe some endocrinology research. If I plan to do endo research, I'll be getting my masters. I would like to be an endocrinologist, but I don't think I want to take another 8 years of schooling to do so.

Guru, that's a pretty heavy word. I don't think I'll ever consider myself a guru of sorts as I don't believe everything can be answered so simply especially within the scientific community. But I do have another PH/DS guide and related articles I will be putting out sometime soon.

Off-Topic radio? I don't think there's much of a demand for someone like myself to be on Off-Topic. Hell, if I ever actually got on there I'd probably freeze up. haha.

J2jud, I have a question... I just got 2 bottles oral winni 5mg, 100tabs and one bottle dbol 5mg 100 tabs- how would one do a stack on this??

If you want to run a proper Winni cycle, you're going to need enough to run at least 5-6 weeks at 40-50mg. The same goes for dianabol. I mean, 5mg tabs aren't going to last very long from either steroid. Get enough D-Bol to run from 10mg-25mg for 6 weeks as well.

This cycle is fairly conservative and helps with cost issues due to the pyramiding scheme of the dosages.

W1: 40mg Win - 10mg Dbol
W2: 40mg Win - 15mg Dbol
W3: 50mg Win - 20mg Dbol
W4: 50mg Win - 25mg Dbol
W5: 50mg Win - 25mg Dbol
W6: 50mg Win - 25mg Dbol

bornonthebayou

04-27-2010, 04:17 PM

jud i am running a 75 mg of a halo clone for six weeks. what can i stack this with? im not looking to use anything "tren" related.

J2jud

04-27-2010, 04:59 PM

jud i am running a 75 mg of a halo clone for six weeks. what can i stack this with? im not looking to use anything "tren" related.

Halo's a great compound. If this is your first cycle I'd recommend that you use it as a standalone cycle.

As for stacking. It depends on what kind of cycle you're wanting to run. If it were me and I was wanting to stack this for lean mass, I would look into epistane/havoc compounds to use for the last 4 weeks of your halo cycle at 40mg/day. For a wet bulk, I'd recommend using M1,4ADD @ 75-100mg/day for 4-5 weeks.

For an advanced user, I might recommend this... for advanced lean muscle gains.

W1...Halo-75...
W2...Halo-75...
W3...Halo-75...Epi-40...
W4...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg
W5...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg
W6...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg

But following this cycle will require a very good PCT approach.

gottabecool

04-27-2010, 05:12 PM

Halo's a great compound. If this is your first cycle I'd recommend that you use it as a standalone cycle.

As for stacking. It depends on what kind of cycle you're wanting to run. If it were me and I was wanting to stack this for lean mass, I would look into epistane/havoc compounds to use for the last 4 weeks of your halo cycle at 40mg/day. For a wet bulk, I'd recommend using M1,4ADD @ 75-100mg/day for 4-5 weeks.

For an advanced user, I might recommend this... for advanced lean muscle gains.

W1...Halo-75...
W2...Halo-75...
W3...Halo-75...Epi-40...
W4...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg
W5...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg
W6...Halo-75...Epi-40...Superdrol-10-15mg

But following this cycle will require a very good PCT approach.

Where would his liver be for those last few weeks? :flowers:

J2jud

04-27-2010, 07:25 PM

Where would his liver be for those last few weeks? :flowers:
The cycle would be tough on the liver, but this is why I recommended it if he were an advanced user. The cycle is moderately dosed in SD, but the other compounds are not. If an advanced user with plenty of experience is using this cycle as outlined, proper liver support should be assumed. Here's a great combination to use in terms of actual liver function support: SAM-e, NAC, and ALA.

TLF BABY

04-28-2010, 03:42 PM

Minnphat

04-28-2010, 07:22 PM

Hey I have th EVO stack and a bottle of Halo... How would I run them together? Thanks in advance man...

bornonthebayou

04-29-2010, 09:30 PM

Appreciate the help!! is epistane by IBE legit? and tfsupplements a safe online supplement company?

Bigbull1

04-30-2010, 01:28 PM

What would you all recommend for increasing endurance? Running for the most part. I've been running cycles of mdrol three or four weeks at a time but when I am it feels like I can't do shit for cardio. I have laid off of all supplements right now to focus on my run times but I am having a hard time not taking another cycle of mdrol.

HammerStrength12

05-05-2010, 08:34 AM

Do you know how long liquid clomid/nolva is good for? If I want to use it this fall, will the bottle I have now still work? Thanks

J2jud

05-14-2010, 02:36 PM

how for/against the use of a pre workout drink while on cylce are you? would the caffeine content be a negative for blood pressure etc or is there a minimual amount of caffeine that can be used risk free?

I wouldn't be too concerned with using a pre-workout while on cycle unless you already are having BP trouble before getting on cycle. Now, taking a ton of stimulants is probably not the best of idea's. But using a pre-workout drink shouldn't be of concern. Just monitor your health as normal. I would advise not going over 600mg's of caffeine in a day. If you'd like to combat high blood pressure, consider supplementing with garlic extract 2-3x a day.

Hey I have th EVO stack and a bottle of Halo... How would I run them together? Thanks in advance man...

Since the EVO stack is 10 weeks, you can always bridge the EVO stack into your HALO cycle or have a 2-3 week over-lapping period.

I would run the BAM & Pro-Anabol together. On the last week of BAM/Pro-A, start Jungle Warefare and HALO. I'm not too fond of Restore, but you could start it in the 3rd week of a 6 week cycle of HALO. Dose it so that you're ending both Restore and Halo at the same time. Proceed to use a SERM for PCT.

Appreciate the help!! is epistane by IBE legit? and tfsupplements a safe online supplement company?

There's lots of debate whether or not the new batch of Epistane is the correct compound. If you want quality that I trust, look into Customcapsule for their epistane. You can formulate your own PH and supports. I've had a lot of guys order it and never complain. CC tests their compounds with a 3rd party chemist with a standard compound.

What would you all recommend for increasing endurance? Running for the most part. I've been running cycles of mdrol three or four weeks at a time but when I am it feels like I can't do shit for cardio. I have laid off of all supplements right now to focus on my run times but I am having a hard time not taking another cycle of mdrol.

If physical performance is your goal, superdrol is counterproductive to athletes who are endurance based. Halo clones and Furuza-A/Orostan-A. I would also recommend using some Beta Alanine to increase endurance capacity.

Do you know how long liquid clomid/nolva is good for? If I want to use it this fall, will the bottle I have now still work? Thanks

I cannot judge the quality of a compound when purchased, but it should last up to 2 years or more if you've kept the SERM in proper conditions. If it is left for long periods of time, the compound may fall out of suspension. If this happens all you need to to is heat the mixture up slowly and allow the compound to become suspended again.

TLF BABY

05-16-2010, 02:34 PM

I wouldn't be too concerned with using a pre-workout while on cycle unless you already are having BP trouble before getting on cycle. Now, taking a ton of stimulants is probably not the best of idea's. But using a pre-workout drink shouldn't be of concern. Just monitor your health as normal. I would advise not going over 600mg's of caffeine in a day. If you'd like to combat high blood pressure, consider supplementing with garlic extract 2-3x a day.
thanks bro.

killercuda426

05-18-2010, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by profish71 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif
j2jud hello i got 4 bottles of h drol by cel can you help me set up a plan on running a cylce? Should i take any thing before i start the cycle for bp or prostate.Also i will be taken my andro gel with the cycle. can i eat just protien and maybe some small carbs before i work out? I would like to loose some fat try to get leaner.and as far as pct can i just keep using the andro gel or will i need some thing eles.
Depends. If you're using the andro gel as recommended by a doctor, you may want to stay on it and use a light PCT.

Halo Cycle:
- 6 weeks (50/50/75/75/75/75)
PCT
- Clomid (75/50/25/25)

I would take in some whey protein isolate(25g) 30min before each workout. If you want some carbs, try some oatmeal with a tbs of fruit preserves.

J2jud my doctor took me off the andro gel and put me on cypionate my question is .I ordered clomid from W-P dont whant to put the full name out there but never got it so can i use forma stanzol from mr. supplements for my pct thanks

Widge

05-19-2010, 10:02 AM

i notice in your PH guide that nolva is the listed SERM for recovery from a cycle but alot of people seem to use clomid instead or a combo of both,

what would be the best serm or combo there of to use to recover from a 6 week cycle of halo?

TLF BABY

05-21-2010, 10:49 AM

do u like taking your clomid dosage during pct all at one time or spread it out evenly? like if taking 75mg a day is it better to take 75 at one time or 25mg 3 times in one day? or is there no difference?

HammerStrength12

05-24-2010, 10:37 AM

Finally have all the components I need for my 1st halo cycle. Probably gonna start a month after I get off the evo stack, but I figured it cant hurt for some quick feedback.

Hdrol - 50/50/50/50/50

PTC: Liquid Clomid 50/50/50/25
Surpess C
Creatine Mono

Also have on me reversitol, novedex and Animal Stak, do you think its worth adding 1? Or should the above be ok?

gottabecool

05-28-2010, 03:49 PM

Hey Bud,

So I know you are not a fan of "The one" or "D-plex" as it isn't very potent and it is a DHT derivative...but would it potentially be a decent decision to help to retain muscle while dieting?

What are a few of your preffered OTC items for an AI? If custom, what blend? Scale of 1-10 it's effectiveness (10 being something like letro, 1 being nothing)?

Hope schooling is going well.

Fah-Q

06-01-2010, 01:08 AM

Just curious but what would be the best liver support on cycle? I'm taking halo right now at 50mg using about 1000mg of Milk Thistle.

HammerStrength12

06-03-2010, 11:11 AM

1 more - when I go to local stores, obviously there aren't many good products left on the shelves. I saw a few that really caught my eye though. All are companies I've never heard of and their products stack stuff like 2 superdrols, and multiple methylated compounds. Wtf is up with this?

killercuda426

06-08-2010, 09:43 PM

does anyone no when j2jud is coming back to the board i now hes busy with school and show

J2jud

06-11-2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by profish71 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=869235#post869235)
j2jud hello i got 4 bottles of h drol by cel can you help me set up a plan on running a cylce? Should i take any thing before i start the cycle for bp or prostate.Also i will be taken my andro gel with the cycle. can i eat just protien and maybe some small carbs before i work out? I would like to loose some fat try to get leaner.and as far as pct can i just keep using the andro gel or will i need some thing eles.
Depends. If you're using the andro gel as recommended by a doctor, you may want to stay on it and use a light PCT.

Halo Cycle:
- 6 weeks (50/50/75/75/75/75)
PCT
- Clomid (75/50/25/25)

I would take in some whey protein isolate(25g) 30min before each workout. If you want some carbs, try some oatmeal with a tbs of fruit preserves.

J2jud my doctor took me off the andro gel and put me on cypionate my question is .I ordered clomid from W-P dont whant to put the full name out there but never got it so can i use forma stanzol from mr. supplements for my pct thanks

I've never heard of the forma stanzol. But seems to be a formestane and other AI mix. It looked to be out of stock, but if you want to just do a light PCT, considering you're on Test-Cyp you might want to look into Transform supplements Fomestane product.

i notice in your PH guide that nolva is the listed SERM for recovery from a cycle but alot of people seem to use clomid instead or a combo of both,

what would be the best serm or combo there of to use to recover from a 6 week cycle of halo?

The PH guide is pretty old and I would give examples of post cycle therapies, not my recommendations. If you take a look at my post history I am not a fan of Nolva. I recommend the use of clomid for most cycles and never like to recommend nolva much at all.

For something like a 6 week cycle of Halo, Clomid @ (75/50/50/25/25) should be more than enough to recover from a cycle. Anything more is just over-kill.

do u like taking your clomid dosage during pct all at one time or spread it out evenly? like if taking 75mg a day is it better to take 75 at one time or 25mg 3 times in one day? or is there no difference?

The early morning hours is when I'd take my SERM. There's no need to space out the dosages considering the length of the half-life. You're going to have a good amount of SERM in your system throughout the day and night.

Finally have all the components I need for my 1st halo cycle. Probably gonna start a month after I get off the evo stack, but I figured it cant hurt for some quick feedback.

Hdrol - 50/50/50/50/50

PTC: Liquid Clomid 50/50/50/25
Surpess C
Creatine Mono

Also have on me reversitol, novedex and Animal Stak, do you think its worth adding 1? Or should the above be ok?

Cycle seems fine, but I might suggest bumping the dosage of the Halo to 75mg for the last two weeks or extend to 6 weeks. I think you'd pleased with 6 weeks rather than 5 weeks. One weeks can make a big difference in halo cycles.

As far as PCT. Don't put in any of the reversitol BS or Novedex-Xt. It's not needed at all. Animal Stak could be useful in the gym and libido purposes. But I like the PCT. Just remember to add in some extra calories.

Hey Bud,

So I know you are not a fan of "The one" or "D-plex" as it isn't very potent and it is a DHT derivative...but would it potentially be a decent decision to help to retain muscle while dieting?

What are a few of your preffered OTC items for an AI? If custom, what blend? Scale of 1-10 it's effectiveness (10 being something like letro, 1 being nothing)?

Hope schooling is going well.

Thanks! done with the regular semester and now in summer school. Very time consuming.

Well, it's not that the steroid is DHT derived. It's basically because it's action and results are very similar to DHT. You should expect strength and hardening. On a cut, it would be beneficial. Just watch your hairline. It's very unforgiving in that department.

As for natural AI's, they're very beneficial to use on-cycle and tapered in PCT.

From custom capsule:
1. Indole-3-Carbinol: 400mg
2. Chrysin: 400mg
3. Resveratrol: 500mg-1g.

Other natural AI's are pretty hard to get a hold of and expensive. I like to take the above mentioned at that dose as it has shown to be effective. In PCT, it's best to taper the amounts besides the resveratrol. I can't give you a ranking system. But I3C and Chrysin have a lot of info/studies that show support of their use as an AI.

Just curious but what would be the best liver support on cycle? I'm taking halo right now at 50mg using about 1000mg of Milk Thistle.

NAC, SAM-e and lecithin is about all you'll need for liver care.

1 more - when I go to local stores, obviously there aren't many good products left on the shelves. I saw a few that really caught my eye though. All are companies I've never heard of and their products stack stuff like 2 superdrols, and multiple methylated compounds. Wtf is up with this?

Well, these companies are playing on the ignorant and the users who have no concern for their health and even how to cycle properly. It's quite sad and there's probably a demand for them in those stores, maybe even pushed onto customers. I can't stand this and pisses me off whenever I see shit like that. Crap companies.

gottabecool

06-16-2010, 09:41 AM

thanks! done with the regular semester and now in summer school. Very time consuming.

Well, it's not that the steroid is DHT derived. It's basically because it's action and results are very similar to DHT. You should expect strength and hardening. On a cut, it would be beneficial. Just watch your hairline. It's very unforgiving in that department.

As for natural AI's, they're very beneficial to use on-cycle and tapered in PCT.

From custom capsule:
1. Indole-3-Carbinol: 400mg
2. Chrysin: 400mg
3. Resveratrol: 500mg-1g.

Other natural AI's are pretty hard to get a hold of and expensive. I like to take the above mentioned at that dose as it has shown to be effective. In PCT, it's best to taper the amounts besides the resveratrol. I can't give you a ranking system. But I3C and Chrysin have a lot of info/studies that show support of their use as an AI.

Sounds good, not worried about the hair line. It is far enough back I can't see it anyways. LOL

What about combining test boosters with the above AI's? What would you add-in, and how much of it?

HammerStrength12

06-16-2010, 04:00 PM

Cycle seems fine, but I might suggest bumping the dosage of the Halo to 75mg for the last two weeks or extend to 6 weeks. I think you'd pleased with 6 weeks rather than 5 weeks. One weeks can make a big difference in halo cycles.

As far as PCT. Don't put in any of the reversitol BS or Novedex-Xt. It's not needed at all. Animal Stak could be useful in the gym and libido purposes. But I like the PCT. Just remember to add in some extra calories.

Can do, maybe I'll make it 5 just because it is my first one..

How long do you think I should wait after I come off the evo stack to start this one? Does the same rule of time off=time on+pct apply? Or can I wait less since it's not prohormonal?

Jason Newman

06-16-2010, 10:11 PM

hey jud, im on week 3 of turinabol lv, 60mg first week 75 since then, loving it, plan on 6 weeks, but any reason to cut it short, or signs to look for in order to not go 6weeks? or signs that will determine the length of my cycle?

killercuda426

06-17-2010, 09:35 PM

j2jud I got two questions? I have two bottles of tren american cellular labs can i sell them on line to some one i no supplement stores cant sell it any more but can i sell them online to some one with out getting in trouble .Also when i start my hdrol cycle for 6 weeks my friend said that my testosterone levels are going to drop to almost nothing is this true while im on trt thank you

Growin24/7

06-19-2010, 12:50 AM

I have taken the whole Evo stack a few times now and I love the results I got from it however I have had taken a few months off of all testosterone/ai's type of supplements and I have now realized that I have a mild case of gyno (puffy nipples looks kinda like i am holding water around the nipple too). I am not saying it was caused from the evo stack in any way however I DID have some gyno before taking the evo stack but I believe it was just born to happen and as I get older and as times goes on the gyno seems to be getting more noticed...i am basically wondering if you guys have some mild gyno issues would you still take JW/PA/RESTORE? (I did not really like BAM, some wet gains when i tried it b4) i have been thinking about this for a few days and cannot come up with an answer... thank you very much for you time and if you have any suggestions please share

HammerStrength12

07-01-2010, 09:37 PM

U there Jud? lol

killercuda426

07-11-2010, 08:03 AM

j2jud if my test levels are going to drop. im on test cyp but i have 4 bottles of angrol gel left .so should i use the test cyp plus use like 4 pumps a day of the angrol gel also from keeping my test levels from falling .then a cpl weeks before i go back to see my doctor for trt if i stop the angrol gel that should be out of my system right thanks for your help

Charlesz2

07-16-2010, 02:23 AM

I have used mdrol several times in the past. I'm thinking about stacking it with hdrol. If I do this what should I take with it? I was thinking clomid or 6 oxo.

diamonddelts77

07-16-2010, 04:06 AM

what does it mean when They say Mdrol causes major hypoglycemia?? also if i am looking to get as strong as possible which designer do u think would give me best results

killercuda426

08-19-2010, 07:28 PM

any one no where jud is thanks

Jason Newman

08-19-2010, 11:34 PM

dude was swamped with school, not sure if he took summer off for vacation or it was his graduation semester but im sure hell be back soon

Violator

09-09-2010, 10:12 AM

Hi Judd,

great thread, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I have 2 questions if i may;

1. I have just completed 4 weeks on Halovar by Purus labs(at the 50/50/50/50 reccommended dose). The results have been shocking to say the least, ive dropped 5% BF while keeping my bodyweight....Unfortunately i do not have a SERM like nolva on hand, but instead am using recycle by purus(for the next 4 days i will be running a double dose)....after reading your thread i am a touch concerned about my idiocity and ignorance on PCT, is recycle enough for this, or should i wait till the nolvadex arrives and start using it straight away?

2. I have also purchased a bottle of Nasty mass (pheraplex + max LMG) and another bottle of halovar(which i intend to use early next year around end Jan)...this time i have ordered the nolvadex for PCT as well as recycle...my question is, do you think it is safe(in terms of toxicity) to bridge these 2 compounds over week 3&4?

i.e:
week 1 halovar
week 2 halovar
week 3 halovar + nasty mass
week 4 halovar + nasty mass
week 5 nasty mass
week 6 nasty mass

over the last 4 weeks of halovar, i have had no noticeable sides and today is my second day with recycle and i feel my libido rise quite exponentialy, do i need to be concerned about not using the nolvadex for PCT now?

I drink 6-8litres of water a day, diet is 100% clean and maintained 5'10, 205 - 15%BF(i am dieting), 32 years old, training 6 years...have had BP checked and is ok...

sorry for the idiot questions man, you just seem like a man whos researched a lot on this and id appreciate your opinion.

thanks

lurch559

10-05-2010, 12:25 AM

HammerStrength12

10-05-2010, 12:27 AM

Im considering trying this product. Im 32 6'7, 235 lbs, 9% body fat. training for 8 years. Ive used about 3 cycles in the past the last one being sus500. I use novedex xt for my pct and of course the regular during/post supps for added health support. I use the novedex as follows:
week 1: 3 pills a day
week 2: 2 pills a day
week 3: 1 pill a day

what do you think of this new product and my use of novedex xt?

anyones comments welcome

That stuff is liver cancer in a bottle. STAY AWAY.

Sust is a much safer option IMO.

And if you do decide to try the MonsterPlexx, novedex wont even be close to sufficient for pct. You'll end up smaller after pct than you were before you started the cycle, have no libido and have to go on HRT the rest of your life.

split0811

10-11-2010, 04:24 PM

I'm going to start taking rpn havoc. I was wondering how long I should take it for? And how long should I wait to start my next cycle on it. Age 28 and I have pct.

HammerStrength12

10-11-2010, 04:57 PM

I'm going to start taking rpn havoc. I was wondering how long I should take it for? And how long should I wait to start my next cycle on it. Age 28 and I have pct.

Not to budge in for Jud, but since he hasn't been on in a while and this is an extremely common question, I'll just answer it for u:

Typical epi cycles last around 4 weeks. Is it your first PH cycle ever? 20/20/30/30 is usually a good dosing schedule. If you want you can up it, but I wouldn't go over 40mg.

Clomid or Nolvadex should be used for pct, although an otc AI might work for epi as it doesnt seem to be very suppressive. Still, I'd use a SERM to be safe.

Hossco

10-25-2010, 05:54 PM

What do you think of NX Labs M1T, is it strong enough for shut-down, should there be a PCT?

kindom-muscle

11-11-2010, 06:40 AM

hey guys,
im after just buying Rpn Havoc,its a prohormone i think, can some one explain to me exactly what a pro hormone is and do you need to do anythinh different before or after taking this. Thanks

http://www.powermyself.com/product/R...istane)_TS-419 (http://www.powermyself.com/product/RPN_Havoc_x_90_caps_(Epistane)_TS-419)

link to product

i posted this in its own thread but thought it might be better served here

HammerStrength12

11-19-2010, 12:12 PM

Luolamies

11-22-2010, 10:37 AM

What do you think of NX Labs M1T, is it strong enough for shut-down, should there be a PCT?

It's arguably the strongest oral steroid on the planet aside from mibolerone so you will absolutely need PCT and a good one, HGC 1000 iu e5d and Nolvadex 20 mg per day for three weeks, anything otc wont do...

Luolamies

11-22-2010, 10:51 AM

Not to budge in for Jud, but since he hasn't been on in a while and this is an extremely common question, I'll just answer it for u:

I used the same logic here, hope it's ok...

J2jud

11-24-2010, 07:02 PM

Hello everyone! I'm sorry I've been absent from posting on my Q&A. I'm trying to make regular visits and respond to any of your questions and concerns. As always I will do my best to help you resolve your problems, concerns, etc. So, if you would like to have me answer your questions, please submit in this thread.

If you have PM'd me a question, I'm sorry I have not responded. I have cleared out my pm box for any further emails that you would not like to discuss in open forum.

best regards,
Jud.

J2jud

11-29-2010, 10:39 PM

I have finished writing another article and will be available very soon.

NTT91

11-30-2010, 11:44 AM

Hey man, gonna be running P-Mag as a first cycle. I was thinking of dosing it around 75/75/100/100/100 or quite possibly just 100 for 5 weeks. What do you think would be the most effective? Also for PCT what would be better? Nolva or Clomid and at what doses for how long? Should a test booster be used. I was thinking either DAA or PCT assist by CEL? Does it matter?

HammerStrength12

11-30-2010, 01:27 PM

I have finished writing another article and will be available very soon.

Expecting great stuff as always bro!

justinz1992

12-02-2010, 12:32 AM

Vfit

12-04-2010, 03:18 PM

Hi J2jud,

I bought 1 bottle of lgi pro stanivar 60 caps and I'm planning on stacking it with est propadrol 120 caps, I will like to know if i would get good gains out of it and what could be a proper dosage including some nolva for pct. I want to run the cycle for 4 weeks.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and happy holidays to everybody!!!

flipmonk

12-19-2010, 09:53 AM

great thread! hope this question hasn't been asked ... but i wasn't able to read through the whole thread yet.

which PH would you recommend for a first cycle for someone who is trying to make some lean gains.

powernyc

12-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Jud,

Thank you for your article which led me to this thread. I am just beginning to really take the time to educate myself about AAS as I know very little about it. I'm 33 and my personal PH experience is limited to taking Methyl Mass (the preworkout drink that has an AI in it)... so I've really done nothing.

I have one bottle of Finaflex 1-andro (4weeks) and one of Diesel Test Pro that I was thinking of starting around the third week of the 1AD. But, since Diesel has DHEA, should I take it earlier in the cycle, or throughout the whole cycle then PCT with something else?

Also, I've heard the 1AD is really mild (why I chose it for a first run) so I can get away with just using a test booster and AI for PCT. What's your take on that?

Thanks for any information you might have. I appreciate it.

J2jud

12-26-2010, 07:13 PM

Hi J2jud,

I was curious on your views on jungle warfare and the products in the evo stack. I see articles all over the internet claiming mostly Jungle warfare and BAM are PH's and have steroid compounds. Others say they are just test boosters.

Thanks for your time

I'm not really sure what is in either of the products mentioned due to the weird labeling of ingredients. However, I know that what "was" in Jungle Warfare was a compound variation of ATD among other things. I'm sure it still contains the said compound. A year or more ago JW actually contained a designer steroid, which should no longer be the case. However, if you're looking for quick lean muscle gains and strength I can only recommend designer steroids and prohormones that I know will produce results. From what I know, there could be some mild doses of natural test boosting supplements, aromatase inhibitors and DHEA*.

It would not be a bad idea to run alongside another DS or PH. Just make sure you know what you're putting in your body.

Hi J2jud,

I bought 1 bottle of lgi pro stanivar 60 caps and I'm planning on stacking it with est propadrol 120 caps, I will like to know if i would get good gains out of it and what could be a proper dosage including some nolva for pct. I want to run the cycle for 4 weeks.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and happy holidays to everybody!!!

If you could tell me whether or not you have the actual prohormone/original propadrol, it would be much more beneficial as there is a new version containing an AI.

If it is the original Prop, the dosage should range no less than 90mg and can be taken to 120mg+. My recommendation would be around those two dosages and no more. Especially if this is your first run with the said compound(s).

Since Prostanivar is a combo of Superdrol and Halodrol, you can't play with the dosages. I wouldn't go over 2 caps/day. That would be 30mg SD and 50mg of Halo. Not really ideal dosages, but considering your stacking 3 compounds you should be producing decent gains.

My PCT recommendations are fairly simple yet long. I always recommend 5-6 weeks+ of PCT. Now since you're using nolva I would recommend (40/40/30/20/20/10/10) That's a six week protocol. I would also recommend utilizing D-Aspartic acid 4-6g/day.

great thread! hope this question hasn't been asked ... but i wasn't able to read through the whole thread yet.

which PH would you recommend for a first cycle for someone who is trying to make some lean gains.

I always recommend halodrol clones at 50-75mg for 5-6 weeks with clomid for PCT. Great gains in all aspects. Eat, train and grow.

Jud,

Thank you for your article which led me to this thread. I am just beginning to really take the time to educate myself about AAS as I know very little about it. I'm 33 and my personal PH experience is limited to taking Methyl Mass (the preworkout drink that has an AI in it)... so I've really done nothing.

I have one bottle of Finaflex 1-andro (4weeks) and one of Diesel Test Pro that I was thinking of starting around the third week of the 1AD. But, since Diesel has DHEA, should I take it earlier in the cycle, or throughout the whole cycle then PCT with something else?

Also, I've heard the 1AD is really mild (why I chose it for a first run) so I can get away with just using a test booster and AI for PCT. What's your take on that?

Thanks for any information you might have. I appreciate it.

First off, I would never recommend anyone use a natural supplement or test booster and AI to recover from a cycle of any sort. It's just not that effective and there's no real clinical proof of being able to restore your HPTA with those supplements alone.

The 1-AD that you're suggesting is actually 1-DHEA and converts to 1-testosterone at a very mild conversion factor when compared to actual 1-andro. Though, 1-DHEA can be quite effective in the upward range of 600-800mg/day. This can be quite costly and should be ran no less than 6 weeks.

The other product you suggest can be ran alongside a SERM for libido purposes. Regular DHEA is quite beneficial on cycle as well. It's really up to you whether or not it's necessary. IMO, I would save it for an off-cycle supplement to your training and diet program.

powernyc

12-30-2010, 11:37 AM

Jud,

Thank you for your response. I'm going to take your advice on this before I proceed.

J2jud

12-30-2010, 04:48 PM

Jud,

Thank you for your response. I'm going to take your advice on this before I proceed.

I'm glad I could help. If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

To anyone that reads my Q&A, please take a look at the article I wrote...

http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/chemical-enhancement/2405-the-advanced-application-of-pro-hormones-and-designer-steroids-the-triphase-cycle.html

"Rodz"

01-04-2011, 03:39 AM

Whats goin on J2, how ya been, whats the plan for 2011?

BC123Jm

01-04-2011, 03:58 PM

Jud,
I would like to know your opinion on running epi and hdrol stacked
together.

I have read what you said about hdrol alone in other posts.

i have used every regular type oral AAS over the years,
but have never used a DS.

I am also on 3oomg of cyp TRT.

i am looking for recomp and dry gains,
also i'm on Dave's keto diet.

I currently use arimidex as an AI for my TRT,
would i drop that while running epi, becuase it also
lowers estrogen?

how would i best use epi and hdrol stacked with my TRT?

Thanks dude, keep up the good info, it's much appreciated.

retwa

01-08-2011, 07:27 PM

I've been taking the 1-andro by iron mag labs for 6 weeks now...first at 600mg/day, then at 900mg/day for the last 2 weeks.

If this stuff does actually convert to any steroid, it remains to be seen in my own experience...maybe if you're 150lb and take 900mg/day it will do something, but it wouldn't be worth the cost.

GameofInches

01-22-2011, 04:05 PM

What do you know about "super dmz"? Some guys in the Chem site say you can get Dbol like gains from it. Thanks!

s2h

01-23-2011, 12:06 AM

What do you know about "super dmz"? Some guys in the Chem site say you can get Dbol like gains from it. Thanks!its the real deal...

daywalker72

01-23-2011, 12:21 AM

What do you know about "super dmz"? Some guys in the Chem site say you can get Dbol like gains from it. Thanks!

its the best otc drug ive used. fast acting, big gains. at week 3 i got serious back pain but its well worth it

G-Roy

02-03-2011, 11:30 PM

its the best otc drug ive used. fast acting, big gains. at week 3 i got serious back pain but its well worth it

any effect on the libido or hairline (excess shedding)? Ive been thinking about trying this one

daywalker72

02-04-2011, 08:29 AM

any effect on the libido or hairline (excess shedding)? Ive been thinking about trying this one

I was super horny. no hair issues. i had to stop at about 3.5 weeks due to back pumps. most people dont have a problem though.

GameofInches

02-05-2011, 04:47 PM

its the real deal...

its the best otc drug ive used. fast acting, big gains. at week 3 i got serious back pain but its well worth it

Thanks guys, what site do you buy it from?

sleepyhead396

02-07-2011, 01:06 AM

how long does sarms stay in your system

J2jud

03-28-2011, 02:20 AM

Thanks for the patience guys. I'm finally getting around to doing some things I've been neglecting for quite some time.

Whats goin on J2, how ya been, whats the plan for 2011?

Hey Mike,

Things have been quite busy for me this year. Training and diet have not been where I'd like them to be, by any means. With my graduation deadline approaching this December and trying to get enough lab hours with my professors, keeping up with assignments/exams among constant setbacks with my business project; it seems there's just not enough time in my day.

Anyway, I don't plan to compete this year with everything I have going on. Though, I do have plans for competing once again at the 2012 Branch Warren Classic.

I do have many articles planned to release pretty soon as well as some new video's to my youtube channel. I've been getting a few requests to make more video's of my workouts.

Jud,
I would like to know your opinion on running epi and hdrol stacked
together.

I have read what you said about hdrol alone in other posts.

i have used every regular type oral AAS over the years,
but have never used a DS.

I am also on 3oomg of cyp TRT.

i am looking for recomp and dry gains,
also i'm on Dave's keto diet.

I currently use arimidex as an AI for my TRT,
would i drop that while running epi, becuase it also
lowers estrogen?

how would i best use epi and hdrol stacked with my TRT?

Thanks dude, keep up the good info, it's much appreciated.

Simply put, there's little chance your AI will be of any real need alongside the use of epi and halo in your TRT doses.

Halo is one of my favorite compounds still legally available. It comes with a rather heavy price tag, but worth every penny to run it properly. For those that are experienced, It's not uncommon for 75-100mg to be used to reach desirable effects.

Epi/havoc's dosages are quite variable; ranging from 15-45mg. Stacked with Halo, I see a potentially rewarding stack. My recommendation with such a stack would be within the following ranges:

Halo: 75-100mg
Epi: 30-40mg

I've been taking the 1-andro by iron mag labs for 6 weeks now...first at 600mg/day, then at 900mg/day for the last 2 weeks.

If this stuff does actually convert to any steroid, it remains to be seen in my own experience...maybe if you're 150lb and take 900mg/day it will do something, but it wouldn't be worth the cost.

1-androsterone (1-DHEA) does, in fact, convert to an (end) "target hormone" of 1-testosterone. The conversion rate to 1-testosterone (orally) is not quite certain, but is reported to be at roughly 10%. As to whether this is accurate, I would assume it's more than a probable estimate.

Assuming that you're, in fact, using actual 1-dhea, gains are quite subtle and increase or "snowball" over time. This particular prohormone is best used in conjunction with or "stacked" with another prohormone or designer steroid. The gains associated with this particular prohormone in a single compound cycle setting are not going to be dramatic unless you're using doses that are substantially greater than 600mg.

Again, this prohormone is effective depending on the amount and duration of the cycle and is more suited as a stacking agent rather than a single compound cycle.

What do you know about "super dmz"? Some guys in the Chem site say you can get Dbol like gains from it. Thanks!

Dbol-like gains from DMZ? I'm going to assume that this statement is based off of a comparison of DMZ to Dianabol in terms of noticeable increases in weight and strength typically gained in a period of time. Since both steroids illicit "quick" return, they are similar. (Both steroids have the potential to produce quick gains.) Characteristically, these steroids are quite different. One produces a more "wet" (dianabol) type of weight while the other provides a more "dry" (DMZ) weight.

how long does sarms stay in your system

The half life of SARM "S-4" is reported to be ~4 hours, SARM "MK-2866" has ~24 hour half-life. Unfortunately, I cannot say what the detection time is.

G-Roy

04-05-2011, 01:35 PM

J2jud

04-13-2011, 01:57 PM

J2JUD, I have a question thats not entirely PH related but in the same vein. Ive got two tubs of testoforce 2 (DAA) and a bottle of CEL topical formestane. I'm planning on starting next Monday. Would you start the formestane at the same time or wait a week or two until the DAA is kicking in and run the formestane a week or two linger than the DAA? I think I'm naturally prone to gyno, Ive had the puffy nipple thing since puberty and I tend to store some fat on my pecs (I've never used AAS or PH's) so I just want to be cautious of any kind of rebound. Could I apply formestane directly to my pecs or is there a better way to do it?

thanks

Sorry for the late response, but better now than later, right? lol.

The DAA will cause a significant increase in total T and may similarly provide some estrogen synthesis because of that. It's nice to include formestane as your AI, and even better that it's topical.

Addressing the application question; the AI doesn't necessarily act locally at the site of application. What it will do is prevent aromatase from synthesizing androgens into estrogen(s). If you want tissue localization, a SERM will be your best option.

How long do you plan on cycling DAA? If it's for an extended period of time, I would recommend waiting a period of time and then adding the formestane. Otherwise, I would say start it when you start taking the DAA.

G-Roy

04-13-2011, 03:50 PM

Sorry for the late response, but better now than later, right? lol.

The DAA will cause a significant increase in total T and may similarly provide some estrogen synthesis because of that. It's nice to include formestane as your AI, and even better that it's topical.

Addressing the application question; the AI doesn't necessarily act locally at the site of application. What it will do is prevent aromatase from synthesizing androgens into estrogen(s). If you want tissue localization, a SERM will be your best option.

How long do you plan on cycling DAA? If it's for an extended period of time, I would recommend waiting a period of time and then adding the formestane. Otherwise, I would say start it when you start taking the DAA.

No problem, I know youre a busy guy. I'll prob run DAA for about 6 weeks total. Since the AI isnt site specific is there a preferred location or just put it wherever.

J2jud

04-13-2011, 06:30 PM

No problem, I know youre a busy guy. I'll prob run DAA for about 6 weeks total. Since the AI isnt site specific is there a preferred location or just put it wherever.

Yes. There's a many locations you can apply it: upper chest, hip area, shoulders, inner thigh. There are a few area's that may be a bit more sensitive and cause mild irritation, but I would just stick with the upper chest, shoulders and hip area's.

k1ng21

04-16-2011, 04:36 PM

J2jud have you ever heard of legal limit labs? and would it be a good starting prohormone?

pumpitup1000

04-20-2011, 12:45 PM

Jud,I am planning on running a 6 week cycle of h-dol and havc,50-100 on hrdol and 30-40 on havc rpn.whats the best and safest way to run them together with out shutdown of my system hav, cycle supp. liv-52,vitamin c 3gr,for AI I have cel formestane spray,do I need this,some say I dont with this cycle.If so do use at beginning or just, with pct cycle at end.also can I use daa at end for test boostor,or get somthing better thank for your time

FaMeRoKz

04-22-2011, 04:48 PM

Jud,

What do you think about this cycle...

Hdrol for 6 weeks starting first day at 50mg and then 75mg all through the 6 weeks.
11oxo @ 1g a day....starting last day of Hdrol..for either 3 weeks or 4 weeks...then PCT?

J2jud

04-25-2011, 02:23 PM

J2jud have you ever heard of legal limit labs? and would it be a good starting prohormone?

Can't say I've ever heard of "Legal Limit Labs." A good starting pro-hormone will always be a Halo clone.

Jud,I am planning on running a 6 week cycle of h-dol and havc,50-100 on hrdol and 30-40 on havc rpn.whats the best and safest way to run them together with out shutdown of my system hav, cycle supp. liv-52,vitamin c 3gr,for AI I have cel formestane spray,do I need this,some say I dont with this cycle.If so do use at beginning or just, with pct cycle at end.also can I use daa at end for test boostor,or get somthing better thank for your time

First off, we need to clear the air about shut down. Introducing exogenous androgens into your endocrine system to a degree to promote dramatic muscle and strength gain will inevitably result in suppression/reduced function of your HPTA or "shutdown." To what degree you'll experience will be highly subjective and pure speculation based off of age specific data. However, lets just assume that there will be high suppression, simply for the sake of not providing confusion and information that may be taken out of context.

Most PHs/designer steroids will never require the aid of an AI. Most being DHT derivatives should not cause alarm for aromatization/estrogenic activity. Thus, an AI being used on-cycle won't be needed. The orals with estrogenic activity have not been available for some time in the U.S.

As always, PCT should consist of a SERM. There's really no exception to the benefits. A low dosed AI may be used in PCT, but I almost never recommend this with these OTC orals.

Stacking Halo and Havoc
Halo: 6 weeks @ 75mg/day
Havoc: 4-5 weeks @ 30mg

I would recommend using havoc in the beginning and end with 1 week of halo alone.

PCT: Clomiphene Citrate + DAA

Jud,

What do you think about this cycle...

Hdrol for 6 weeks starting first day at 50mg and then 75mg all through the 6 weeks.
11oxo @ 1g a day....starting last day of Hdrol..for either 3 weeks or 4 weeks...then PCT?

There's no reason to start the cycle with 50mg. Just run it at the dose (75mg) you intend to use for the duration of the cycle. I wouldn't run 11-OXO on the last day of your halo cycle. Instead, run the 11-OXO 2 weeks prior to ending your halo cycle and extend another two weeks. This is not the typical way I would run this cycle, but given the 'extention' that's the way I would run it, then start PCT.

Weeks 1-6 Halo
Weeks 4-8 11-OXO

pumpitup1000

04-26-2011, 07:24 PM

thks jud, so i wont run the AI,just the clomiphene,can i use the liquid form,in what doses with daa 7 gr. a day.plus cylce assist to be safe.for 4 weeksof pct.thks Jud

harlan100

05-01-2011, 02:11 PM

J2jud

05-01-2011, 09:49 PM

Hello everyone,

If you haven't seen my other thread by now, I am doing some research on gynecomastia. To be more specific, I am collecting data and experiences from users who have completed a full cycle of AAS (including PCT) and developed gynecomastia. If you have ever developed gyno some time after finishing PCT, please fill out my questionnaire and send it to my email account. I am working on providing grounds to conduct clinical investigations into the phenomena of 'delayed onset gynecomastia.' Your contributions and experiences will help make this a reality.

CLICK HERE and help my research

I'm setting up a new email for those who wish to contact me in private to discuss any AAS related questions. I will provide the address as soon as I have found the appropriate email provider.

thks jud, so i wont run the AI,just the clomiphene,can i use the liquid form,in what doses with daa 7 gr. a day.plus cylce assist to be safe.for 4 weeksof pct.thks Jud

Sounds good. If the liquid actually contains clomiphene, then you can use it without question.

I had been using the DAA at 2 daily doses. 3-4g dose in the A.M. and another in the late evening. I would extend the DAA past PCT to receive the full benefits of the supplement. Use the cycle assist however you wish. There's no superior way to use it over another.

Clomiphene Cit. (6 weeks)
100/75/75/50/50/25mgs

If you ever have any questions, please let me know.

Violator

05-11-2011, 04:45 PM

^Jud your research rocks bro, im sure this project will be filled with quality.

I wanted to ask you a question regarding DMZ(Dymethazine) and superdrol (well promoted product on this board),
at doses of 10mg of these products together would there be any need for an AI? ,i found this in your other PH guide sticky;

Aromatase Inhibitors:
Aromatase Inhibitors, inhibit/stop the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. The use of over the counter AIs (Aromatase Inhibitors) are sometimes used in place of a SERM for mild cycles or when one is unavailable. Although, some are very effective at eradicating estrogen, their use should not be used in PCT as the foundation for recovery. The use of O.T.C AI's is considered by most; inefficient at accomplishing the goal of PCT and is not recommended for fully recovering from a cycle. AI's can be used during cycle to prevent gynecomastia from aromatizing androgens such as testosterone and Dianabol. Individuals using Cycles in which a mild compound is involved such as H-Drol/halodrol, an O.T.C AI + natural testosterone booster could quite possibly accomplish the task of recovering from a mild PH cycle. Even though I say this, one should always have a SERM on hand while using O.T.C. products for recovery.

SERM
SERMs inhibit estrogen like actions in certain tissues of the body/ regulate estrogen to a manageable level in PCT. A SERM cannot and should not be a question when dealing with anything more than the suggested "mild" pro-hormones. Aromatase Inhibitors should only be used for the suggested "mild" PH's and never for compounds which are given a characteristic that is considered more than mild. Some will tell you that taking an O.T.C type PCT is ok, where an AI such as: "Novedex-XT," is the foundation for their Superdrol cycle. This is simply not true and is very misleading. To believe an individual will fully recover with a O.T.C product like Novedex-XT is ridiculous. Here are some general PCT plans for both mild and advanced compounds:

___________________________________

So considering that, im thinking that an AI is unneccesary because those two products shouldnt really aromatise in an average subject correct? do you think reasonable a PCT for this combo could be;

Toremifene 120/100/60/40

and maybe a natty test booster/ creatine as well?
on cycle supps, CoQ10, liver support aswell etc...

Also, regarding the use of hCG in PH PCT, Do you think it could ever have a place? like at the end of the tri-cycle in the article you wrote?
Also, do you think the use of hCG in general, with both AAS & PH could cause gynecomastia if an AI is not used alongside it? especially in a case where compounds with more estrogenic side effects are possible?

Good luck with your research bro!, respect!

TheABomb

05-11-2011, 07:04 PM

Hey Jud,

You seem like a really smart guy on prohormones and wanted your help. Can you give me some help for pct for my Beastdrol cycle? Thanks bro.

J2jud

06-13-2011, 02:05 AM

Updates:

I have been unbelievably busy this summer with my research projects, lab schedule and other ventures. However, my absence will bring some very good and interesting works to come to fruition quite soon.

As promised, I have a new way of contracting me directly. if you have a question or need to contact me, please send an email to the following address:

[email protected]

I'd also like to extend my questions to encompass all AAS (scheduled substances and or TRT) and related questions. I primarily answer questions on prohormones and designer steroids as it a highly misunderstood concept and category of AAS that needs constant attention. So, if you have questions related to any aspect of AAS on any level, please, I am more than happy to accommodate you via email or this thread. As for questions posted above, they will be answered shortly. Please excuse the delay, I have limited forum access at this time.

Best regards,

Jud.

flipmonk

06-13-2011, 05:09 AM

J2jud

06-13-2011, 12:03 PM

great to see you're back :yep:
Thanks man. I hope I can stick around and help. Tim is a valuable thing; I wish I had more of it.

flipmonk

06-20-2011, 05:20 AM

Thanks man. I hope I can stick around and help. Tim is a valuable thing; I wish I had more of it.

I just sent you an e-Mail to [email protected]

Subject: RX Muscle - Question

spritz0

07-26-2011, 12:47 PM

Let's keep this thread going folks, J2jud is the man!!!

DieselXT

07-26-2011, 05:47 PM

jud i sent you an email like last week i think also broo

adpolice

08-02-2011, 11:16 PM

Jude just recieved a bottle of Cel's alpha one.Searching the net got mixed opinions.Is it an M1T prohormone or not?and how should be used for optimal results?

Hoss06

08-02-2011, 11:55 PM

Subd

PHuser123

08-09-2011, 05:50 PM

I ran 2 caps/day of DMZ (besides for the last two days when I ran 3/day) + Anabolic Matrix for 4 weeks and followed it with a "improper" PCT of the old E-Control and Anabolic Matrix. Cycle support was ran throughout the 8ish weeks. This was back at the end of Feb/Early March. I was 19. Did I fuck my natty test levels up permanently? No clue how to get a blood test and shit.

My libido isn't the same as it used to be. Will Everything come back in time? Is there anything OTC I can use to help speed up the recovery and bring my test levels back up faster. I don't feel like my test levels are low, but I am paranoid as fuck.

bornonthebayou

08-18-2011, 01:30 AM

3,5,7-Trihydroxy-2-(3-hydroxy-4-methoxy-phenyl)-chromen-4-one-5-hydroxy-2-methyl-naphthalene-1,4-dione

have you ever heard of this ^

there is a supplement that people in my area are using that has this compound and are reporting crazy gains like on average 20-30 pounds... the supplement places that are selling this are saying its non hormonal. is this compound just throwing crazy water weight? would love to get some input on this supplement before i invest in buying a bottle b/c there selling it over $100 bucks.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=b.m.f.salvation&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1R2ACEW_enUS387&biw=1024&bih=517&tbm=isch&prmd=ivns&tbnid=wsMeZp_e8b-zxM:&imgrefurl=http://chaoticlabz.com/news/website-update/&docid=YTeU5-IRF6cBZM&w=456&h=228&ei=JaNMTr3ACoPEgQfty9GDBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=16&page=1&tbnh=72&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=84&ty=49

daywalker72

08-18-2011, 08:08 AM

anybody ever run low dose havoc/epistane for long periods of time? like 8-12 weeks? i know many bodybuilders do this with dbol.

J2jud

01-23-2012, 03:30 AM

Sorry for the lack of presence around here. I haven't been on any forums this past year much at all, but will try and become more of a presence on my Q and A. My apologies for any inconveniences.

Jude just recieved a bottle of Cel's alpha one.Searching the net got mixed opinions.Is it an M1T prohormone or not?and how should be used for optimal results?

'Alpha One' is a prohormone to methyl-1-testosterone. As for conversion rates, I have no idea.

I ran 2 caps/day of DMZ (besides for the last two days when I ran 3/day) + Anabolic Matrix for 4 weeks and followed it with a "improper" PCT of the old E-Control and Anabolic Matrix. Cycle support was ran throughout the 8ish weeks. This was back at the end of Feb/Early March. I was 19. Did I fuck my natty test levels up permanently? No clue how to get a blood test and shit.

My libido isn't the same as it used to be. Will Everything come back in time? Is there anything OTC I can use to help speed up the recovery and bring my test levels back up faster. I don't feel like my test levels are low, but I am paranoid as fuck.

The short answer to your question, "no." You didn't permanently screw your endocrine system. Though, screwing around with hormonals at your age may not come without consequence in some form. Being young has the advantage of possessing a resilient endocrine system that is constantly fluctuating. Always use a SERM to aid in the restoration of your HPTA for these short oral cycles. HCG supplementation would be even better for recovery purposes.

3,5,7-Trihydroxy-2-(3-hydroxy-4-methoxy-phenyl)-chromen-4-one-5-hydroxy-2-methyl-naphthalene-1,4-dione

have you ever heard of this ^

there is a supplement that people in my area are using that has this compound and are reporting crazy gains like on average 20-30 pounds... the supplement places that are selling this are saying its non hormonal. is this compound just throwing crazy water weight? would love to get some input on this supplement before i invest in buying a bottle b/c there selling it over $100 bucks.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=b.m.f.salvation&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1R2ACEW_enUS387&biw=1024&bih=517&tbm=isch&prmd=ivns&tbnid=wsMeZp_e8b-zxM:&imgrefurl=http://chaoticlabz.com/news/website-update/&docid=YTeU5-IRF6cBZM&w=456&h=228&ei=JaNMTr3ACoPEgQfty9GDBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=16&page=1&tbnh=72&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=84&ty=49

that shit is not an androgen - but two organic compounds. One is a flavanol and the other is (5-hydroxy-2-methyl-1,4-naphthoquinone) which is a plant toxin. Pure horseshit and probably contains an unknown androgen not described on the supplement facts; explaining the gains reported - if true.

anybody ever run low dose havoc/epistane for long periods of time? like 8-12 weeks? i know many bodybuilders do this with dbol.

Not really a great practice and is not ran in the normal sense of how orals are taken. Running any 17-alkylated steroid for 8-12 weeks at dosages to promote lean muscle gain is highly hazardous to your health. If you're going to try and run orals for 8-12 weeks, look into my 'Triphase cycle' I've described. Otherwise, just use injectables.