Anyone has experience of getting out of ketogenic diet?

[vietgoboi]

Currently little frustrated on debate of diet vs diet and which is better for fat loss. One person from different forum states lifting weights on ketogenic diet will not use fat as energy to fuel, but protein. Fat is used for daily activity like typing, walking, and low intensity excercise. :mad:

So my question to my title is "How can I get off ketogenic diet and back to 40/40/20 diet safely w/o crazy weight gains", because I am no longer carb adapted :(

Did anyone just add carbs 5 grams and take away 2 grams of fat a week?? I find this process forever..

How about Carb-ups during this time once a week on ketogenic diets, does the carbup kick me out of ketosis for that day? If not, should I keep crabing up at my caloric intake as I would on ketogenic diet before hand?

[NWred]

I've been on keto diet for 10 weeks and dropped fat pretty fast from lifting. Of course you still have to do cardio in there too, but I'm dropping WAY faster on keto than I did on carb cycling.

Whoever told you that you don't burn fat on a keto diet is nuts. You'll drop fat fastest on a keto diet. But only if you are truly in ketosis and you aren't fooling yourself and cheating on occasion. Also, make sure you Omega-3 and 6 are balanced. I recently found out mine were off and my HDL was extremely low. Since I bumped up the O-3 and O-6, I've had more energy to go longer.

How long have you been on keto? What's your diet look like?

[chucksm00th]

slowly add carbs back into the diet to limit a rebound effect. Try 30 carbs every 5 days unitl you reach your set point...Again dont just add an additional 30 every 5th day, see how your body is responding and then add...You are the only one that can determine that..Some weeks you wont add more in, just watch and see how oyu respond

[vietgoboi]

I've been on keto diet for 10 weeks and dropped fat pretty fast from lifting. Of course you still have to do cardio in there too, but I'm dropping WAY faster on keto than I did on carb cycling. Keto great for cutting, but getting out of it safely is difficult...


Whoever told you that you don't burn fat on a keto diet is nuts. You'll drop fat fastest on a keto diet.
That person was also veteran of keto and he stated that intense weight lifting will force the body to breakdown muscle (protein for fuel). Fat is only ultilize at low intensity or daily life.
His comment had big effect on me, because I am weight lifting freak.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=297757671&postcount=1


But only if you are truly in ketosis and you aren't fooling yourself and cheating on occasion. Also, make sure you Omega-3 and 6 are balanced. I recently found out mine were off and my HDL was extremely low. Since I bumped up the O-3 and O-6, I've had more energy to go longer.I don't go in depth about Omega fats etc, but I do eat 2 eggs and take 3 fish oil (Vaporize) every day.


How long have you been on keto? What's your diet look like?
I started 1/7/09 of this year, the beginning of keto was dirty (full of bacon/mayo as staple's) http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=280477931&postcount=1

I started modifiying my diet on 2/6/09 to:
7:00 2 eggs, 4 bacon
Pre-workout supplement -> Superpump250, Intrabolic
10:00 PWO 1 scoop of whey + creatine + 60 g of almonds
1:00 6 oz chicken breast + 2 tbsp mayo + 1 cup broccoli
4:00 60 g of almonds
7:00 6 oz chicken breast + 2 tbsp mayo + 1 cup broccoli
10:00 1 scoop of casein
Here a link to it:
http://www.fitday.com/fitness/PublicJournals.html?Owner=vietgoboi&Year=2009&Month=2&Day=5

I lift 5 x a week and perform 30 minutes of LISS afterward.
Consuming 2100-2200 calories in deficit.
5'7 160 lb 18% BF male, but pretty muscular. :p

[vietgoboi]

slowly add carbs back into the diet to limit a rebound effect. Try 30 carbs every 5 days unitl you reach your set point...Again dont just add an additional 30 every 5th day, see how your body is responding and then add...You are the only one that can determine that..Some weeks you wont add more in, just watch and see how oyu respond
30 grams is actually good :D compared to adding 5 gram instead, but did you ever tried this or have problems?

[NWred]

You gotta do what works for you. Personally, I put on 30 lbs of muscle on a high fat and protein, low carb diet and I've been cutting on a keto diet and haven't lost any of the muscle. I'm going to peak right around the weight and bf that I was planning.

The big thing is to make sure you feel comfortable, strong, and like the results your getting.

Best of luck bro'.

[vietgoboi]

You gotta do what works for you. Personally, I put on 30 lbs of muscle on a high fat and protein, low carb diet and I've been cutting on a keto diet and haven't lost any of the muscle. I'm going to peak right around the weight and bf that I was planning.

The big thing is to make sure you feel comfortable, strong, and like the results your getting.

Best of luck bro'.
For muscle gain, did you increase calorie intake over maintence or gain lean muscle mass through maintence or deficit?:confused:,

Still going through with my keto cut till I reach 8-10% BF then get back into 40/40/20 diet for bulking and re-enter keto for cutting.

What I'm mostly concern right now is; during my intense workouts, is my muscle getteing broken down as fuel or fat? There been so many discussion on the other forum still on going.

My second concern would be getting out and in keto safely from anyone experience. I totally just jump into keto from 40/40/20 diet lolz

[NWred]

For muscle gain, did you increase calorie intake over maintence or gain lean muscle mass through maintence or deficit?:confused:,

Still going through with my keto cut till I reach 8-10% BF then get back into 40/40/20 diet for bulking and re-enter keto for cutting.

What I'm mostly concern right now is; during my intense workouts, is my muscle getteing broken down as fuel or fat? There been so many discussion on the other forum still on going.

My second concern would be getting out and in keto safely from anyone experience. I totally just jump into keto from 40/40/20 diet lolz


Definitely. I was taking in 3000-3400 calories a day during bulk and eating 8 times a day (once in the middle of the night for a protein shake and udo's oil). During my bf cut cycle I'm down to 1700-1800 calories. I'm taking in 6 oz of chicken for each of 2 meals, 1 6 oz red meat meal, 2 protien shakes during the day with cashew butter. I've got various oils and nuts in there to keep the fats up and I have green veggies twice a day and 4 whole eggs with 2 egg whites in the AM.

If you are taking in enough protein, then you won't burn muscle during your workouts. How tall are you and how much do you weigh? I'm only 5'6", 148lbs and I'm taking in 1 more protein shake, 1 more red meat meal, and almost 3 times as much eggs as you are.

Also, why are you having almonds 3 hours after you 1 PM meal but no protein? You should be taking in protein every 2.5-3 hours throughout your day and you should take your fats with your protein and avoid any carbs or other intake inbetween. I'd give up on the mayo also. Just not a fan of it. If you can, get olive, walnut, or almond oils and take 1 tsp in place of the mayo (or 1-2 tbl spoons of peanut butter) with your shake and eat almonds with your chicken.

[vietgoboi]

Definitely. I was taking in 3000-3400 calories a day during bulk and eating 8 times a day (once in the middle of the night for a protein shake and udo's oil). During my bf cut cycle I'm down to 1700-1800 calories. I'm taking in 6 oz of chicken for each of 2 meals, 1 6 oz red meat meal, 2 protien shakes during the day with cashew butter. I've got various oils and nuts in there to keep the fats up and I have green veggies twice a day and 4 whole eggs with 2 egg whites in the AM. 1700-1800 calories is really under deficit, I thought eating at 2200 calories is deficit enough for me (maintence = 3200 cal to maintain my 160 lb)
If total calorie intake for day is used, fat storage will come into play as fuel?


If you are taking in enough protein, then you won't burn muscle during your workouts. How tall are you and how much do you weigh? I'm only 5'6", 148lbs and I'm taking in 1 more protein shake, 1 more red meat meal, and almost 3 times as much eggs as you are. I am taking around 180 g of protein.
5'7 160 lbs


Also, why are you having almonds 3 hours after you 1 PM meal but no protein? 12 g of protein in 60 grams of almond isn't enough?

[chucksm00th]

30 grams is actually good :D compared to adding 5 gram instead, but did you ever tried this or have problems?

Yes i used those totals when switching to gaining from a comp diet using the keto version. The trick is just to watch how you react to the carbs, you will be very sensitive initially so watch your carbs increase and take your time doing so.

[vietgoboi]

Yes i used those totals when switching to gaining from a comp diet using the keto version. The trick is just to watch how you react to the carbs, you will be very sensitive initially so watch your carbs increase and take your time doing so.
When you made your jump from diet to another, what best time to perform this on? Bulking or cutting phase? Currently in 2100-2200 caloric deficit (maintence is 3200 for my weight & height), better to jump from deficit to deficit 40/40/20?

btw can I lower my calories more for keto diet like NWred on top eating at 1700-1800? We both are near same height and I know for sure he works out intensely. I still don't understand full full concept of using our body fat as fuel. Once we use up 1800 calories, does our body target fat storage?

[NWred]

1700-1800 calories is really under deficit, I thought eating at 2200 calories is deficit enough for me (maintence = 3200 cal to maintain my 160 lb)
If total calorie intake for day is used, fat storage will come into play as fuel?
I am taking around 180 g of protein.
5'7 160 lbs
12 g of protein in 60 grams of almond isn't enough?


I'm dieting for a show. Also, calorie intake isn't as important if you have your diet dialed in correctly. 1700 calories is enough for me to maintain muscle and burn fat when I keep my fats and protein balanced. I'm targeting 140 at 4% bf for my show.

12g of protein seems a little low for a meal to me. 6 oz of chicken, 6 eggs, or a scoop and a half of protein powder (~35 grams of protein) with each of my 6 meals throughout the day.

My diet is to get to an extreme cut for show. Like I said before, you gotta do what is comfortable for you and helps you get to your goals.

But if you are serious about making gains and doing it right, you should probably invest the money for a few consultations with a dietician. Trust me, it's worth it.

[vietgoboi]

I just decided to lower my calories on keto from 2100 cals to 1800 during the week and have my carb up on Friday, one day before legs (Saturday)

I don't believe I can live though life style with strict eating to lose weight. Hopefully once a week carb up keeps me sane

Here a link to another forum having keto weight loss contest with my photo.
BE WARNED, some images are not suited for weak stomach!
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=298979511&postcount=98

[chucksm00th]

When you made your jump from diet to another, what best time to perform this on? Bulking or cutting phase? Currently in 2100-2200 caloric deficit (maintence is 3200 for my weight & height), better to jump from deficit to deficit 40/40/20?

btw can I lower my calories more for keto diet like NWred on top eating at 1700-1800? We both are near same height and I know for sure he works out intensely. I still don't understand full full concept of using our body fat as fuel. Once we use up 1800 calories, does our body target fat storage?

I went from Competition Keto Diet to bulking plan...I kep the fats in the entire time, i only slowly added carbs each week until i got to my set point (or where i felt it was enough carbs for my body).

With regards to "jumping" to your other plan, follow your keto and make a SLOW transition to your 40/40/20 diet...again a slow transition w/ carbs otherwise youll blow up like a tick. Its all water originally so you will peak at a particular weight and in a couple weeks your weight drops back and you lose some water retention. this can be controlled by watching the carbs as you transition back.

Your body doesnt target fat after 1800 calories. It woudlnt matter if it were 1800 calories of protein and carbs either. The keto or Daves diet works by eliminating carbs from the body, when this hapens your body switches from using glucose (carbs) as a fuel source and uses fat or ketones as the primary fuel source since it doesnt require carsb anymore after you enter ketosis. Once your in Ketosis your burning fat all the time since fat is your "fuel source", and thats also why you need so much more fat on that type of diet becasue the fat is the energy source when carbs are eliminated :D

[vietgoboi]

With regards to "jumping" to your other plan, follow your keto and make a SLOW transition to your 40/40/20 diet...again a slow transition w/ carbs otherwise youll blow up like a tick. Its all water originally so you will peak at a particular weight and in a couple weeks your weight drops back and you lose some water retention. this can be controlled by watching the carbs as you transition back.

Few questions:

1. If I did rush into carbing up for few days under deficit, I will get kick of ketosis and get bloated?

2. After getting knock out of ketosis, will I be carb adapted?

3. Do I gain real fat if I rush transition eating in deficit? :confused:

[chucksm00th]

Few questions:

1. If I did rush into carbing up for few days under deficit, I will get kick of ketosis and get bloated?

2. After getting knock out of ketosis, will I be carb adapted?

3. Do I gain real fat if I rush transition eating in deficit? :confused:

1.once you add sufficent carbs "you will" be out of ketosis...Bloating is from more carbs every day...Again slowly add them back..if you feel your gaining too much water cut back on them and allow your body to adjust before adding more.

2.You wont be carb adapted for at least a few weeks. Since you were running a keto diet your have become more insulin sensitive from inhibiting carbs in your diet. the adaption or bloating wont be as severe as you become less sensitive over time.

3. you can gain some fat if you increase too any calories too quickly... think about it this way...if your running 1800-1900 clories and Immediately jump 1000kcals more then boom your going to gain some fat because your metabolic rate has been set or adapted to a lower caloric intake...bump the calories/carbs slowly back and watch and see how you react...if nothing happens after a few days add some more...if you getting bloated, cut back

[vietgoboi]

1.once you add sufficent carbs "you will" be out of ketosis...Bloating is from more carbs every day...Again slowly add them back..if you feel your gaining too much water cut back on them and allow your body to adjust before adding more.

2.You wont be carb adapted for at least a few weeks. Since you were running a keto diet your have become more insulin sensitive from inhibiting carbs in your diet. the adaption or bloating wont be as severe as you become less sensitive over time.

3. you can gain some fat if you increase too any calories too quickly... think about it this way...if your running 1800-1900 clories and Immediately jump 1000kcals more then boom your going to gain some fat because your metabolic rate has been set or adapted to a lower caloric intake...bump the calories/carbs slowly back and watch and see how you react...if nothing happens after a few days add some more...if you getting bloated, cut back
1. A little confuse about this part, I thought eating in deficit will result in weight loss. How will I gain fat if eating in deficit?

2. The only negative is water bloating? I am actually fine with that for few weeks.

:confused:

[chucksm00th]

1. A little confuse about this part, I thought eating in deficit will result in weight loss. How will I gain fat if eating in deficit?

2. The only negative is water bloating? I am actually fine with that for few weeks.

:confused:

I never said eating in a deficit will result in weight gain....your talking about goin from 1800-1900 calories to your 3200kcal requirements for your body size..thats when you gain wieght.... calorie deficit = weight loss,
when you increase in calories thats when you gain weight!!!!

[vietgoboi]

I never said eating in a deficit will result in weight gain....your talking about goin from 1800-1900 calories to your 3200kcal requirements for your body size..thats when you gain wieght.... calorie deficit = weight loss,
when you increase in calories thats when you gain weight!!!!
Cool, so I can switch straight to carb at deficit (still continue losing weight) and side effect is containing water ? :)

[chucksm00th]

i dont think your understanding what i said, and your not making any sense cause you seem to be asking the same question repeatedly.

If your going into a deficit your going to lose weight. If you add more carbs switching from a keto diet to a 40/40/20 diet the result will be water retention, so you have to gradually increase them. If you jump the gun and add carbs rapidly the result will be water retention and some additional fat gain sine your overall calories are increasing too quickly since your caloric intake was lower on the keto version and for the reason your more insulin sensitive from being on a no- carb diet.

[indianamonster1986]

Once you get in....you can not get out...

[vietgoboi]

i dont think your understanding what i said, and your not making any sense cause you seem to be asking the same question repeatedly.

If your going into a deficit your going to lose weight. If you add more carbs switching from a keto diet to a 40/40/20 diet the result will be water retention, so you have to gradually increase them. If you jump the gun and add carbs rapidly the result will be water retention and some additional fat gain sine your overall calories are increasing too quickly since your caloric intake was lower on the keto version and for the reason your more insulin sensitive from being on a no- carb diet.
Can't I keep caloric intake same during rapid transition? Replace all fat with carbs/protein equal to deficit # I was on keto to avoid getting actual fat?

Sorry, I am tad confuse of how all these process work. :(

[chucksm00th]

sure you can replace the fat w/ carbs, but YOUR STILL GOING TO BLOAT DUE TO INSULIN SENSITIVITY when you reintroduce carbs!!!!!!

JUST ADD A LITTLE HERE AND THERE....thats it...theres no other way aroudn it unless you want to blow up like a tick!

[vietgoboi]

sure you can replace the fat w/ carbs, but YOUR STILL GOING TO BLOAT DUE TO INSULIN SENSITIVITY when you reintroduce carbs!!!!!!

JUST ADD A LITTLE HERE AND THERE....thats it...theres no other way aroudn it unless you want to blow up like a tick!

I mean bloat looking because of water only right? This is the part where I am conflicted,

[chucksm00th]

yup