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IL WNBF Pro
01-30-2010, 09:27 AM
Hey everyone...seems I am at the point of my lifting "career" where the mind is willing, but the body is saying WTF??? I have been doing this for about 25yrs and its starting to take a toll on the old joints. What changes does everyone make when faced with this kind of dilemma? Recently I was doing a routine with 5x5 on weekends....and it took about 3 - 4 days before my knees, not legs, felt good enough to even WANT to train again.

(have to laugh at the 'pencil neck' label)

Mac
01-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Welcome to RX.

Now that I am younger, I take more time off for recovery, that' about it.

gman
01-30-2010, 10:43 AM
Can't say since I didn't lift a weight until I was 44, so I feel like a spring chicken, but did want to welcome you to the forum.

buckimscl
01-30-2010, 10:45 AM
I lifted back in the 80's and then took about 16 years off while I was bulking. Started again 5 years ago and still feel pretty good. I am lifting 4-5 days a week depending on schedule.

gman
01-30-2010, 10:47 AM
I do like the split Esplendido gave me, where you start with having 2 days of rest, and then work
Legs
Chest
Back
Shoulders
Arms

You start with the toughest body parts when you are well rested and then work toward the easiest.

Baldiewonkanobi
01-30-2010, 11:20 AM
Hey everyone...seems I am at the point of my lifting "career" where the mind is willing, but the body is saying WTF??? I have been doing this for about 25yrs and its starting to take a toll on the old joints. What changes does everyone make when faced with this kind of dilemma? Recently I was doing a routine with 5x5 on weekends....and it took about 3 - 4 days before my knees, not legs, felt good enough to even WANT to train again.

(have to laugh at the 'pencil neck' label)

Training weekends only? Oh...and welcome.

Baldie

DBowden
01-30-2010, 12:36 PM
As I aged, I had to go less heavy.

No more 1- 3 rep sets that I used to do occasionally when I was younger, as well I dropped testing my one rep max.

I modified my workout frequency from 2 on 1 off 2 on and 3 on one off 3 on a week.

I try to stick to a day off between workout sessions to recover and I am very careful as to my diet due to metabolism changes that are age related.

blu2xtreme
01-30-2010, 12:40 PM
I'm new to lifting so no info from me but Welcome:)
I'm from your parts ...Streamwood, Illinois
No longer there but loved it as a kid - a great place to grow up

IL WNBF Pro
01-30-2010, 02:36 PM
Welcome to RX.

Now that I am younger, I take more time off for recovery, that' about it.

Thanks...great to be here...you guys dont seem to have a lot of the "internet warriors" like some other places have. I started back on Mayhem...but it sort of died out. Rx seems to have a great community....

Let me clarify the routine...it was similar to what Layne Norton does (power on weekends, hypertrophy-type during week). I love lifting heavy, joint just dont exactly like me afterwards.

I feel like I am going to turn into one of those guys who is in the gym going on and on about what he did "back in the day"...ha ha. It sucks to be under weights now for work sets that were warm ups back then.

I will be 41 this February and it just feels the last 3yrs has been the worse for my overall joint health. My most recent 'off season look':

Baldiewonkanobi
01-30-2010, 03:11 PM
:hypno: off season..yipes!!

'Sore joints' could be arthritis and adhesions. I have been lifting rather heavy since 1952. My pain did not start until about age 55. 3 meniscus surgeres since then. My Ortho says I need joint repacements...BULLCHIT. For the knees I did one round of Synvisc to replace the Synovial fluid (Hyaluronic acid) and been doing Bio Cell Hyalurionic acid, glocosamine/condroitin since. (I can leg press 18 plates for reps) Fish oils and a few other elixors for inflamation until I got gout 6 months ago. Well F me big time. Take a med to chill those toes down. When shoulders and hips start to scream I do Motrin but never 2 days in a row. I train heavy 6 days a week and nap after every WO. My 50 year old son (sorry old fart) is following in my arthritic footstep.

Baldie

fatbackgoal
01-30-2010, 03:21 PM
Welcome aboard. The only real problem I have is with my knees and I have started looking at other ways of working them than going heavy with squats. As you get older the mind gets wiser and I feel my mind/muscle has gotten a lot better.

HeavyDutyGuy
01-30-2010, 03:33 PM
Dude, have you looked at your own picture? I wish I looked so worn out, jeez. You look full of vigor there, I'd say you have tons of miles left in you. And noooow, the SECRET.... SHHHHH.. Warming up a lot more. I'm 49 (dammit), and my workouts consist mostly of warming up, especially of the first exercise, or any powerlifting lifts. Its like 4 to 6 wamup sets, maybe more for deadlifts or squats, THEN hit it hard. Subsequent exercises may need only a couple, or none if its say your 2nd or 3 rd rowing exercise in that working. The other thing is, AAS or not, you just don't recover as fast or easily at 45 than you do at 25. Use the biofeedback principle ansd listen to your body, what its telling you. I personally have kept training heavier till I have mutant strength, lol. But then its rest, move around, light cardio, more rest.. I hope you're seeing the big picture here.

IL WNBF Pro
01-30-2010, 06:02 PM
off season..yipes!!

'Sore joints' could be arthritis and adhesions. I have been lifting rather heavy since 1952. My pain did not start until about age 55. 3 meniscus surgeres since then. My Ortho says I need joint repacements...BULLCHIT. For the knees I did one round of Synvisc to replace the Synovial fluid (Hyaluronic acid) and been doing Bio Cell Hyalurionic acid, glocosamine/condroitin since. (I can leg press 18 plates for reps) Fish oils and a few other elixors for inflamation until I got gout 6 months ago. Well F me big time. Take a med to chill those toes down. When shoulders and hips start to scream I do Motrin but never 2 days in a row. I train heavy 6 days a week and nap after every WO. My 50 year old son (sorry old fart) is following in my arthritic footstep.

Baldie


Welcome aboard. The only real problem I have is with my knees and I have started looking at other ways of working them than going heavy with squats. As you get older the mind gets wiser and I feel my mind/muscle has gotten a lot better.


Dude, have you looked at your own picture? I wish I looked so worn out, jeez. You look full of vigor there, I'd say you have tons of miles left in you. And noooow, the SECRET.... SHHHHH.. Warming up a lot more. I'm 49 (dammit), and my workouts consist mostly of warming up, especially of the first exercise, or any powerlifting lifts. Its like 4 to 6 wamup sets, maybe more for deadlifts or squats, THEN hit it hard. Subsequent exercises may need only a couple, or none if its say your 2nd or 3 rd rowing exercise in that working. The other thing is, AAS or not, you just don't recover as fast or easily at 45 than you do at 25. Use the biofeedback principle ansd listen to your body, what its telling you. I personally have kept training heavier till I have mutant strength, lol. But then its rest, move around, light cardio, more rest.. I hope you're seeing the big picture here.


Very off season. I am one of those guys who probably could be bigger, just cant seem to get over that "one pack" look. I cringe when I bend over to tie shoes and their are rolls. Talk about a major mental block. My injuries over the last 20+ years are : right pec tear (through the belly of the muscle), partial left tricep tendon tear, mild strain of lower abdominal muscle, left hamstring tear, right meniscus tear, recurring tendonitis of right tricep tendon, etc etc etc. I am falling apart. Thats pretty much why I am relegating myself to masters shows. Cant hang with the young guys anymore.

I have legs tomorrow and I am going to give it a rest on squats for the next six weeks. I am going to focus on slowing down on the hack squats (both concentric and eccentric). Baldie...I am with you and on the nap after workout...ha ha. I need it at times. I love the feel of that heavy stuff.....deads, squats, bench.....but wow...not cool afterwards.

HeavyDutyGuy
01-30-2010, 06:41 PM
Wow. youve had your share of injuries! I think slowing down- the actual movements- on everything. might be your ticket, still FEELs as heavy. or almost,
but not as much blunt force trauma. Supersetting, triseting, giant sets, drop sets, anything that increases blood flow while still working fairly heavy and intensely might be good things to explore at this point.

Baldiewonkanobi
01-31-2010, 12:34 PM
'relegating yourself to Masters shows'. Having done both open shows and Natural shows I see your point. Natural Masters at you age and 'open' Masters are two different animals. What I saw at the 2009 NPC Masters Nationals in the O40 class equalled or bettered the young NPC men just 10 years ago. Mind blowing. With a few exceptions you should walk away with your Natural Masters show. I do worry about HGH and Peptides not showing in blood and urine tests. Lots of cheating in Natural shows, judges and competitors. Not so in the 'open' shows. There everything goes. I prefer the honesty and let it all hang out of the 'open' shows and will take my lumps there thank you. I could care less what the other guy is sticking in his glutes or mouth....conditioning still WINS show.

Baldie

esplendido
01-31-2010, 01:16 PM
I feel like one of the old guys in the park sitting around, feeding the birds and chatting about the latest physical problem in this thread; "Ya know, I've been taking that fiber stuff the Mrs. bought me last week and I'm going as regular as the 9th St. Trolley. Doesn't strain the hernia at all. Slides right through!"
"Hell, Morry, I can't even get on the shitter without a wench. The hips can't take it!"
"That's nothin', boys. I've got a boil the size of New Jersey on my left ass cheek and I gotta stand over the crapper to get the job done!" LOL!!!!!!!

Lessee....I've torn my left triceps off the bone. Both knees have athletic arthritis. I tore my left oblique with a sneeze and a golf swing a few months ago. I seem to be developing a rotator cuff issue in the left shoulder.....and last Friday I partially tore my left biceps at the distal tendon doing a heavy back workout (I find out how badly tomorrow...had MRI yesterday).
But I'm in the gym everyday I'm supposed to be, working around some damn injury or tendon problem. That's what makes Masters the baddasses we are!!!! And I weigh 295lbs with 21" arms, 60" chest at 6'-4" and I'm the biggest badass of them all. They've never seen a 53 yr old bber like me :no:

Oh, and welcome aboard, brother!!!

Baldiewonkanobi
01-31-2010, 01:26 PM
I LOVE IT. You Rick are indeed a BAD ASS. (good luck with the MRI bro) We Masters are fucking unique. I train with a 2 years healed broken tibia, fibia, and talus. Gout. 3 meniscus surgeries. Arthritis. 2 bouts of cancer. An auto immune disease I can't even spell correctly, migrains, prostate the size of New Jersey, asthma, and something else that does not matter once I hit the front door of the gym.


Baldie

IL WNBF Pro
02-21-2010, 09:25 PM
I feel like one of the old guys in the park sitting around, feeding the birds and chatting about the latest physical problem in this thread; "Ya know, I've been taking that fiber stuff the Mrs. bought me last week and I'm going as regular as the 9th St. Trolley. Doesn't strain the hernia at all. Slides right through!"
"Hell, Morry, I can't even get on the shitter without a wench. The hips can't take it!"
"That's nothin', boys. I've got a boil the size of New Jersey on my left ass cheek and I gotta stand over the crapper to get the job done!" LOL!!!!!!!

Lessee....I've torn my left triceps off the bone. Both knees have athletic arthritis. I tore my left oblique with a sneeze and a golf swing a few months ago. I seem to be developing a rotator cuff issue in the left shoulder.....and last Friday I partially tore my left biceps at the distal tendon doing a heavy back workout (I find out how badly tomorrow...had MRI yesterday).
But I'm in the gym everyday I'm supposed to be, working around some damn injury or tendon problem. That's what makes Masters the baddasses we are!!!! And I weigh 295lbs with 21" arms, 60" chest at 6'-4" and I'm the biggest badass of them all. They've never seen a 53 yr old bber like me :no:

Oh, and welcome aboard, brother!!!

Damn dude....I wont complain too much with my stuff. Remind me not to stand next to you in case thats all contagious! HA HA
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=843787
You're right though....I really think its an old school mentality....keep pushing through some of the injuries no matter what. What I hear more now from kids who come in to my clinic is how much time they want to take off after injury. I cant fathom that!

Baldie....I agree that the natural shows tend to have some "suspicious" competitors, but I havent seen to many in the WNBF that I truly would say "Come on...who are you fooling??". Worst case was in 2008 at the Mr. International....this guy from France....was 6'0 (or so) and was 230lbs contest shape. Riiiiiiight.....nothing strange in that system. :rolleyes:

axioma
02-22-2010, 10:01 AM
Welcome. Hard to really say what you should do, you are 41? I will be turning 45 in a few weeks. Got a similiar laundry list as 'dido, won my first show recently 8 months after tearing by biceps/brachii tendon. Currently got acute tendonitis in both elbows and carpal tunnel so bad that I have problems zipping up my jacket. Fuck it. Not to sound cliche, but you just do it. I cycle my training, do the real heavy stuff when I can and change the program when I can't. It is about overall consistency, day in day out. I am 215 and off everything. It is not time to do anything, so I don't. Just have to gut this out and become mentally stronger. Sounds like you just have to "get your mind right". I am guessing you have a pretty impressive contest resume, so you know what to do, you are just getting some amens from the choir. Amen.

Baldiewonkanobi
02-22-2010, 11:37 AM
I have thrown a lot of hate at most of the Natural orgs in the Forums. Never the athletes. Although its the athletes that would be doing the cheating. Insulin, HGH, injectable Peptides, and SARMS can not be checked by current blood/urine tests available to these orgs. One can go on an IV drip of Arginine, etc, at night, consume $600 per month in 'approved' suppliments, faux tan, lipo, EVO, Thermage, nip tuck and Botox and still be 'Natural'. HAH. The judges, promoters and athletes in Natural shows are suspicious as shit of and about everything. In open shows no one gives a crap of how you got to and on the stage...just how you stack up against your fellow competitors. When I was 'Natural' and won a big title, passed the lie detector test, the promoters acused me of being a LIAR and held back my title and trophy until I paid for a blood test. I went along with their bullchit, did the test and got my trophy and title in the mail 30 days later WITHOUT an appolgy. That is why I will go NPC Open.

I am angry arn't I?

Baldie

Mac
02-22-2010, 12:01 PM
I have personally talked to winners of natural shows and listened to them brag about how they beat the system.

So I will compete in the NPC and probably use a substance banned in another organization.

gman
02-22-2010, 12:06 PM
I always figured everyone cheated, and I want to compete against the best anyway, so go ahead and do NPC. I am not natural myself being on testosterone cream to get me in the upper half of the normal range.

IL WNBF Pro
02-22-2010, 09:54 PM
I have personally talked to winners of natural shows and listened to them brag about how they beat the system.

So I will compete in the NPC and probably use a substance banned in another organization.

Yeah, I have heard my fair share of that. In fact I know of one prominant WNBF pro who had enough of the organizations political BS and went to the "dark side". He said that he never felt better. He said that he only can describe it like he has been overtraining for the last 15 years. Wow.

I have yet to 'pull the trigger' for myself....but the more I am thinking about it....the more its tempting.

Catwoman
03-08-2010, 07:23 PM
What ever routine you have been using seems to be working, you look great.

Baldiewonkanobi
03-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Yeah, I have heard my fair share of that. In fact I know of one prominant WNBF pro who had enough of the organizations political BS and went to the "dark side". He said that he never felt better. He said that he only can describe it like he has been overtraining for the last 15 years. Wow.

I have yet to 'pull the trigger' for myself....but the more I am thinking about it....the more its tempting.

My only bad experiences in some 30+ competitions were when I competed in the Natural orgs. I prefer the NPC open set up where all that BS about who is sneaking what/where/when, the F'en bogus lie detector tests, urine and blood tests. I could care less what the other guy is doing.

Baldie

IL WNBF Pro
03-15-2010, 07:59 PM
What ever routine you have been using seems to be working, you look great.

I actually just got done with a 5-week sting of the old gironda routine 8x8. WOW....talk about an eye opener. Usually on the Flex Hack squat I was able to put 4 x 45 per side....with this routine I had to start with only a 45 and a 25 per side.

The workouts were only 45 mins....I ended up sweating more than usual...and talk about being more hungry than usual.

esplendido
03-15-2010, 08:11 PM
You guys use chit? Damn, I have to look into that :yep:

I've been sneakin' into the local farmer's pasture and 'neutering' his young bulls for the mountain oysters. That and yohimbe is all I've been usin' ;) Oh, and creatine. Can't do it without the creatine :no:

IL WNBF Pro
03-15-2010, 08:15 PM
I was thinking about putting a training log up next time I do it (in about 3 - 4 weeks). I was reading resaearch on only resting a short time in between sets being very good for test and GH output....but after about 4 - 5 weeks the increase declined. So, I figure I would run a nice heavy routine for about 3 - 4 weeks and then 8 x 8 again for 3 - 4 weeks.


My only bad experiences in some 30+ competitions were when I competed in the Natural orgs. I prefer the NPC open set up where all that BS about who is sneaking what/where/when, the F'en bogus lie detector tests, urine and blood tests. I could care less what the other guy is doing.

Baldie

True...when you know guys are using...its there. There is no secret. I have decided to do the WNBF Masters show in October. Might be a swan song to my WNBF days. Who knows.

IL WNBF Pro
03-15-2010, 08:16 PM
You guys use chit? Damn, I have to look into that :yep:

I've been sneakin' into the local farmer's pasture and 'neutering' his young bulls for the mountain oysters. That and yohimbe is all I've been usin' ;) Oh, and creatine. Can't do it without the creatine :no:


Hmm...I wish I knew where to get da' chit....its not like my days at DePaepes gym in the Quad Cities....

v1hyp
03-15-2010, 09:30 PM
Welcome to rx! Ever try DC training?

esplendido
03-15-2010, 11:54 PM
Hmm...I wish I knew where to get da' chit....its not like my days at DePaepes gym in the Quad Cities....

PM me bro.

IL WNBF Pro
03-16-2010, 09:31 AM
Welcome to rx! Ever try DC training?

Yeah...I did. Was not too bad. Lost interest after a couple of weeks. Tried it with two different training partners.

Catwoman
03-19-2010, 05:45 PM
True...when you know guys are using...its there. There is no secret. I have decided to do the WNBF Masters show in October. Might be a swan song to my WNBF days. Who knows.[/quote]

Have you thought about Team Universe in New York? They do drug test the athletes (for what I am not sure) and the women's overall was disqualified last year which shows an effort is made.

IL WNBF Pro
03-22-2010, 12:37 AM
True...when you know guys are using...its there.

Have you thought about Team Universe in New York? They do drug test the athletes (for what I am not sure) and the women's overall was disqualified last year which shows an effort is made.

No thanks....have seen too many 'suspect' people in Team Universe. At least with WNBF the 'suspect' list is less. Who knows....

sassy69
03-22-2010, 01:48 AM
I was going to relate some of my own experience - I'll be 45 in about 4 months, lifting since 1981, competing on & off since 2000, just as I'm (hopefully) 2 weeks out from the USAs. I find two things - most of my joints suck these days (I use lots of elastic sleeves), and if I DON"T train, I actually get stiffer than if I did train. I do a lot more stretching, foam roller , warmup stuff. Currently also checking out some kickboxing / boxing conditioning classes since my knees haven't allowed me to do any sort of interval cardio in a long time. I also work on keeping my off-season weight lower than it usually gets cuz its just that much harder to lose it every year.

Baldiewonkanobi
03-22-2010, 07:48 AM
Sassy....2 weeks out from the USAs? Thought that was a week after the Masters....late July?

Baldie

axioma
03-22-2010, 09:34 AM
I was going to relate some of my own experience - I'll be 45 in about 4 months, lifting since 1981, competing on & off since 2000, just as I'm (hopefully) 2 weeks out from the USAs. I find two things - most of my joints suck these days (I use lots of elastic sleeves), and if I DON"T train, I actually get stiffer than if I did train. I do a lot more stretching, foam roller , warmup stuff. Currently also checking out some kickboxing / boxing conditioning classes since my knees haven't allowed me to do any sort of interval cardio in a long time. I also work on keeping my off-season weight lower than it usually gets cuz its just that much harder to lose it every year.

same thing here...most of my aches and pains are related to automobile and motorcycle accidents and just doing crazy shit. If I workout they hurt, if I take time off, they STILL hurt!

IL WNBF Pro
03-22-2010, 10:34 AM
I was going to relate some of my own experience - I'll be 45 in about 4 months, lifting since 1981, competing on & off since 2000, just as I'm (hopefully) 2 weeks out from the USAs. I find two things - most of my joints suck these days (I use lots of elastic sleeves), and if I DON"T train, I actually get stiffer than if I did train. I do a lot more stretching, foam roller , warmup stuff. Currently also checking out some kickboxing / boxing conditioning classes since my knees haven't allowed me to do any sort of interval cardio in a long time. I also work on keeping my off-season weight lower than it usually gets cuz its just that much harder to lose it every year.

45? Wow...looking good no matter what! Isn't it odd that the time we are supposed to take off we feel worse? My friend Scott in Phoenix says the same thing. "Why take off? So I can be reminded of the rest of my body hurting?" The foam roller has saved me a ton! ((hopefully you have the black one...not the foo foo white one))

Regarding the off season thing...it has been a long time coming for me to stay leaner off season because of what you just said. What used to take 10 weeks now take 13 - 14.

Catwoman
03-23-2010, 08:51 AM
I will be 46 in May and I have also been lifting since the 80's. Did my first contest in 1986 and I last competed in 2006. I really didn't feel the injuries affect my training until this past year. I took a long layoff following a surgery and comimg back was full of minor problems and setbacks. Short answer, no layoffs! I also recommend the foam roller and lots of stretching.

IL WNBF Pro
03-23-2010, 12:47 PM
I will be 46 in May and I have also been lifting since the 80's. Did my first contest in 1986 and I last competed in 2006. I really didn't feel the injuries affect my training until this past year. I took a long layoff following a surgery and comimg back was full of minor problems and setbacks. Short answer, no layoffs! I also recommend the foam roller and lots of stretching.

My first contest was in 89. You are lucky for it to be just the last year. For me, the last three years have been bad. Its like everything decided to go to hell. Like after shows, I have always been told to take a couple of weeks off. I cant...I manage one. I dont even take Advil because after a few days of taking it, then stopping...more hurts than before I took it.

Btw...46??? Wow....you look incredible!

IL WNBF Pro
04-01-2010, 09:24 PM
Someone punch me in the face.....my mind wrote checks my body couldnt cash. Managed some 405 squats....later on today I feel like I am 80 years old with the pain I have. SHIT

Wetdawg
04-04-2010, 07:37 PM
I take a week off every 8 weeks and for me I seem to Hurt way more during that time than if I just kept at it in the Gym.

IL WNBF Pro
07-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Wow...I did a two week "off" thing. Not good. I actually feel less motivated now. Damn!!!! Also, just cant seem to find a routine that 'sparks' me (if that makes sense). Again, tried to do some heavy legs last night...and treating patients today is a nightmare. 4x6 on the hack squat with another 3x8 on leg presses. STUPID!!! Just felt immense tightness in the patellar tendon just above the knee cap. Dont want a tear, so I really need to say no more heavy legs.

Could all this be a sign I should get my levels checked? I am 99% done competing (for now)....thoughts?