Non-testosterone female enhancements

[somethinnicea]

I was curious as to know if there are any enhancement products out there that help to eat fat and build lean muscle mass without testosterone for women. I have always went the natural route but wanted to know if there is anything available for women to take that does not contain test.
Thx =))

[musclemilf]

For a natty, there's no substitute for a good training program, clean diet, adequate recovery and patience. I'm not being a smart alec either. :)

[sassy69]

That's pretty much the answer. You're asking for something that manipulates your hormones. That sort of thing is all considered a controlled substance, at least in the US. You can use stuff like tribulis terrestis - it will bulk you up some, but probably make you feel more thick than "lean body mass"..

Here's the basic truth - there's no quicky way to make changes in your body. It can only respond to the environment & stimuli you give it - ie. .how yo fuel (what you eat), how you use that fuel (training, cardio) and how you recovery (maintain low stress & sleep). Even any supplement is only going to SUPPLEMENT an already working diet & training program - because that's what drives your body to function. If that isn't already in place & optimized, the rest doesnt' matter.

To address the pro-hormone line of thing (not sure what you define as "non-testosterone") - even tho these are not all explicitly steroids, they are, for practical purposes, steroids. But they are actually worse in the sense that often the producers will put together all sorts of things that sound good on paper, but really just end up being very harsh on your system. I'd actually suggest you just use regular steroids before using OTC prohormones if you're going to bother.

[tight booty]

Great advice! :)

[somethinnicea]

Thx ladies! and great advice Sassy. I have been doing the clean eating, training. supps and so forth but I guess I'm just not being patient enough. I just see some of these pro women out there and they look lean and shredded and I think to myself is that just yrs of training, the right diet, supps and good genetics or did they take something to enhance themselves but somehow remain feminine? For instance: Ava Cowan, Larissa Reis Erin Stern and so forth. Are all these women "natural"? I'm fairly new at this and have used several trainers in the past that are educated and have certifications or degrees. I figured to myself why pay all these ppl $$ when I can learn this stuff on my own...80% is diet! So I constructed my own plan, supps, weight and cardio training. I know its ultimately up to the person and how they respond due to everyones different, but if anyone who has some knowledge on diet wouldn't mind taking a look on my plan I would love to post and get some feedback. Thx ladies!!

[musclemilf]

You're correct, diet is key. Also, in this game genetics rule. You can do some things diet and training wise to work around inherited issues, but you can't change muscle belies or skeletal structure.

As far as the pros, I can't speak whether they're natural or not. What you're seeing in photographs is a condition that most humans can't maintain for more than 3 days lol. It's unrealistic to look at contest pictures and try to achieve that look unless you want to compete. You have to appreciate the many months of preparation and hard work it takes to get to stage condition...steroids aside.

Sassy, as well as the other lady forum mods, are very knowledgeable in dieting, competition and supplements. You might want to post your diet and training so they could do a high level evaluation.

[tammyp]

not all gear causes verilization (manly characteristics). anavar is very common with the figure girls as well as nolvadex clen and t3.

[Tatyana]

Unless a natural is very genetically gifted and also has the psychological fortitude to endure the diet, they are not going to look like the enhanced pros.

There are very few supplements that are not pharmaceuticals that actually do anything, whey protein and creatine are the exceptions.

I think it is possible for a woman to develop a great physique without using any steroids, it does require a bit more time for most.

[somethinnicea]

wed-low carb
Carb Protein fat
pre/post workout
1 scoop Isopure whey 16.6g 34g 0g
Meal 1
carb protein fat
4oz egg whites 2g 12g 0g
1 egg 1g 6g 0g
1tbsp pb 3g 4g 8g

meal 2
carb protein fat
pepper 4.5g 0g 0g 2oz
ground beef 0g 11.5g 4g
brown rice 9g 1g 0g
cottage chz 5g 13g 1g

meal 3
carb protein fat
4oz chix 0g 27g 1g 3oz
red potato 15g 3g 0g
1tbsp udos oil 0g 0g 14g

meal 4
carb protein fat
turkey 2g 8g 1g
salad 0g 0g 0g
1oz rice 16g 1.5g 1.5g

meal 5
carb protein fat
4 oz chix 0g 27g 1g
4 oz green beans 8g 2g 0g

82.1 150 31.5 = total macros
before bed propeptide 3g 22g 1.5g

85.1 172 33 = total macros after shake before bed

Tues
carb protein fat
pre/post workout
12 scoop whey 16.6g 34g 0g
meal 1
4oz egg whites 2g 12g 0g
1 egg 1g 6g 0g
2oz oatmeal 13.5g 2.5g 1.5g

meal 2

pepper 4.5g 1g 0g
2oz ground beef 0g 11.5g 4g
brown rice 9g 1g 0g
1/4 cup cashews 9g 5g 13g

meal 3

turkey 2g 8g 1g
salad 0g 0g 0g
1oz rice 16g 1.5g 1.5g
1/4 cup almonds 5g 6g 17g

meal 4

4oz turkey bgr 0g 22g 8g
5oz red potato 25g 1g 0g

meal 5
4oz chix 0g 27g 1g
salad 0g 0g0 0g

before bed
propeptide 3g 22g 1.5g


106.5 160 48.5 = total macros

Monday low carb
pre/post workout
carb protein fat
1 scoop whey 16.6g 34g 0g

meal 1-1105 carb protein fat
4oz egg whites 2g 12g 0g 2oz
oatmeal 13.5g 2.5g 1.5g
1tbsp pb 3g 4g 8g

meal 2
carb protein fat
1/2 green pepper 4.5g 1g 0g 2oz
ground beef 0g 11.5g 4g
brown rice 9g 1g 0g
4oz cottage chz 5g 13g 1g

meal 3
Carb protein fat
4oz chix 0g 27g 1g
3oz red potato 15g 3g 0g

meal 4
carb protein fat
4oz turkey bgr 0g 22g 8g
1oz brown rice 16g 1.5g 1.5g
salad 0g 0g 0g

meal 5
carb protein fat
4oz chix 0g 27g 1g
4oz green beans 8g 2g 0g

91.1 161 26 = total macros
before bed propepetide 3g 22g 1.5g

95.6 183 27.5= total macros after shake

This is predominately what I take in all wk w/one cheat meal added in there. I have been trying to keep my cheats as clean as possible to by making meals at home rather than treating myself out to food. I fluctuate the amount of carbs I take in each day. I also work out 6 days a wk and do btw 30 min and 1 hr of HIIT and steady cardio.
I was asking about the enhancements b/c I wanted to possibly take something that will help me lean/cut or so forth minus the side effects i so often hear about...deep, voice, enlarged clitoris, acne, facial hair etc. I wanted something that would keep me feminine. I have competed once so far and I had only 4 wks to prepare and I ended up placing 2nd in figure short. Now I know that with more time I can make leaps and bounds. My first show I had outside help and with this one I was thinking of trying to do the diet, exercise, carb loading, depleting, water and salt manipulation and so forth on my own. I just wanted something to give me that boost. So far I have eaten pretty clean for 3 wks and upped my water intake to a gallon a day. I do cardio on an empty stomach, minus the protein shake I drink before cardio and drink aminos thru out my workout. I cycle, cytolean and mito, and also take a multi vit, CLA, L-carnitine, vit C, arginine and citruline, fish oil and a shake before bed. I mainly eat every 2-3 hrs and split my cardio, 1/2 in the am and 1/2 in the pm. If anyone of you lovely ladies lol would like to take a look at my plan and critique it I would love the feedback on that and any helpful info as to what type of product I could get to speed up my efforts but remain "softer" than BB. Oh and I plan on doing another show for figure in June at the NPC states.

[tammyp]

you didnt mention your stats.

is this a program/diet prepping for stage? it seems quite low in cals for off season.

10mg of anavar is what you are looking to do. you will get an enlarged clit, and oily skin. some people break out, but i dont hear about it often. there are many threads that discuss anavar in this sub forum.

[somethinnicea]

yes I plan on doing a show in June...NPC states. For instance I do a 7 day carb cycle and it goes as follow: mon-1105, tues-984, wed-1325, thur-1105, fri-994, sat-1215, and sun-1105...mon, wed and sat are my low carb days. I'm trying to post my pics of me before I lost wt and what I looked like at my first show...a yr after I started to train. I was happy with what I accomplished in a short period of time but I want to be bad ass when I step on stage next time.

[somethinnicea]

<img src="http://api.photoshop.com/home_5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/adobe-px-assets/2dbf51b84eb7432f893580e2e91ef152" width="1944" height="2592"/> (http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/px-assets/2dbf51b84eb7432f893580e2e91ef152)

<img src="http://api.photoshop.com/home_5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/adobe-px-assets/15f5851e7d094e9db8096df969f6e11d" width="1035" height="1700"/>

<img src="http://api.photoshop.com/home_5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/adobe-px-assets/2da6133f8eb94320ada924d94b2d1573" width="268" height="480"/>

[somethinnicea]

http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/px-assets/15f5851e7d094e9db8096df969f6e11d

http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/5339a5003ede4944a5d95f5b29d20cc5/px-assets/2da6133f8eb94320ada924d94b2d1573

These are the other two before and after pics

[somethinnicea]

oh and my stats are as follows:
28 F, 5'3. 121-123 bf is around 11.3%

[tammyp]

you are very cute! that diet is brutal though! the only time my cals are ever that low are in the last 2 weeks of prep.

[somethinnicea]

Thank u Tammy =)) I actually dont find myself too hungry...drinking all the water btw meals really helps and I snack on grapefruit. I am not 100% clean right now b/c I still use condiments, lite salt at times, splenda in my oatmeal, bbq sauce or panko bread crumbs on my chix but thats about it. So besides u feeling that my diet may be low in carbs..I was going to use this pretty much up to the end with some adjustments to the condiments and the veggies. does it look okay? ********** and what do I stack with it if anything? how long out from a show should someone use? I hope you dont mind answering my ques...I just love learning about fitness and nutrition...thx hun

[Victoria]

You look GREAT! I'm sure you'll do well in your next competition.

Good luck!

[sassy69]

Thank u Tammy =)) I actually dont find myself too hungry...drinking all the water btw meals really helps and I snack on grapefruit. I am not 100% clean right now b/c I still use condiments, lite salt at times, splenda in my oatmeal, bbq sauce or panko bread crumbs on my chix but thats about it. So besides u feeling that my diet may be low in carbs..I was going to use this pretty much up to the end with some adjustments to the condiments and the veggies. does it look okay? ********** and what do I stack with it if anything? how long out from a show should someone use? I hope you dont mind answering my ques...I just love learning about fitness and nutrition...thx hun

Some basic rules of thumb for cycling:

- Don't experiment w/ drugs when you're very close to your show if you have no idea how you'll respond to it. Might screw up your whole prep.
- Never stack anything that you've never tried before.
- More isn't better. I.e. unless you're an experienced cycler with SEVERAL YEARS of lifting under your belt and your goal is bodybuilding, you don't need to be stacking stuff and frankly you don't need anything more aggressive than var.

Standard anavar cycle -
- 10-12 weeks
- 1st 2 weeks at 5 mg var, split the dose in half , 1/2 am & 1/2 pm (read up on steroid half life for anavar) Var takes 2 weeks to "show" itself as it reaches "saturation" levels in your system . This lower dose lets you find out if you have any adverse reactions to the compound or if whatever you got is actually something else. If bad sides, you can just stop the dose.
- 2 weeks + can up to 10 mg / day, split the dose in half. No need to go higher than that. Don't think that more is better. Beyond 20 mg/day, the sides start getting much more aggressive, including impact on your liver as anavar is a 17aa compound - it can affect your liver. Please read up on steroid profile for anavar and make sure you are familiar with all the possible sides.

Please check all the posts on this forum - we discuss this topic (beginner anavar cycle) ad nauseum - there is a lot of information already posted.

[somethinnicea]

Thx alot sassy...very helpful =))

[sassy69]

Thx alot sassy...very helpful =))


:)

Any questions, hit me up!

[tammyp]

it has nothing to do with being hungry...those cals are way to low, and will hinder your progress.... and with 2 cardio sessions. noway! not yelling at ya, just less isnt better when it comes to food.

[PFEPerformance]

I am in NO way close to assisting you at the level these other gals who have responded are....so, that being said, I can say I'm in a mid stage for figure (competing in late Summer and again in Oct)....I am @ 1890 in cals and actually get slight increases for a couple more rounds (diet review and adjustments every 4-6 weeks right now)....my Protien is way UP 267gr per/d, Carbs 120, Fat 42 You may want to consider jumping your Cals by way of additional Protien. I used to be consuming minimal food (thinking the restrictions were assisting my goal)... and I was NEVER hungry....... got on my current program with a wonderful coach and he worked me upwards (mental and physical learning curve for me)....but now, as we work through this - I find I am HUNGRY when getting close to next meal!! Which is actually a good sign indicating my metabolism is begining to shift in and up!

NPC - check the rules/regs for the comp you are planning on. The one I'm doing in Oct has testing and I am not certain Anavar would pass. Make certain you are clear with whatever you try so you don't put in all your hard work and sweat and then get nixed for something you didn't realize.

Cardio - don't burn up that hard earned muscle girl!! Eat - Eat - Eat with enough cals to fuel you and build you but also get your metabolic rate cranking up there and you may find you don't need that level of cardio overkill.....

~Lorrie

[heavyiron]

not all gear causes verilization (manly characteristics). anavar is very common with the figure girls as well as nolvadex clen and t3.
This is the short answer^^^

Now it is time to study :)

[somethinnicea]

I competed only once so far and my trainer at the time had me on about the same amount of cals im on now and I made good progress with wt. I have been doin interval cardio in order to reduce the amt of muscle loss. I'm not really comfortable with increasin the amt of carbs in my diet however i might increase the amt of protein. With var...I have always been a natty and no prob whatsoever with working hard. I was just curious about something that could boost my progress. If I was to deciede to take something such as V, i was going to do early on and by show time I would be past detection time.

[tammyp]

detection time? you dont compete in the npc?

[sassy69]

detection time? you dont compete in the npc?

Yes please clarify before I start on my rant about competing not natural in a natural or tested federation / show.

[somethinnicea]

Whats that tammy?

[somethinnicea]

Im not sure what you ladies were asking but I read that detection time for var is 3 wks and no I have never competed NPC. I competed in a different organiztion before. what did i say wrong? lol

[sassy69]

Im not sure what you ladies were asking but I read that detection time for var is 3 wks and no I have never competed NPC. I competed in a different organiztion before. what did i say wrong? lol


People are usually concerned about the detection time relative to being 'clean' when they do a tested show (i.e. testing for various controlled substances, which all AAS are considered) - which essentially means they're cheating, they just won't fail the drug test because they used the compound for their prep, but dropped it soon enough that its no longer in their systems to be detected.

For definition purposes:
- half-life: 9 hrs - the time it takes for half the active compound to clear your body. This is why it usually recommended to split your daily dose into 2 parts - am & pm - this would keep the amounts of compound in your system and the impact on all the associated functions in your body more level as opposed to clearing a lot of the daily dose, then hitting it with another dose - which your body interprets as a spike in the levels of compound in your system. Your body doesn't like spikes - it prefers keeping everything level and evenkeel with only small changes it can accommodate over time. In half is optimal, but sometimes you can't easily do that if you have e.g. capsules that doesn't split easily. So then you just go w/ 1 dose per day & live with it. Its not optimal, but its near optimal.

- detection time: 3 weeks - in 3 weeks after your last var dose, it will be completely gone from your system.

[somethinnicea]

yea this is what i thought. Ive been reading a whollllle lot on v, personal reviews, scientific findings etc and I keep finding the same explanation and answers. Most has been fairly positive for females if they dont go overboard with dosage. I havent really found anything negative about it, which I dont know whether to consider that good or bad. Everyone says this is the "safest" to take and least damaging.

[tammyp]

so are you competing in a natural organization?

[somethinnicea]

The last time i checked NPC was natural and I was looking into a show in June

[tammyp]

NPC is not drug tested. maybe a few are, but not many. what show are you doing?

[somethinnicea]

Yea I checked into their policies on all that and I guess they do check sometimes but due to the amount of shows they do, they only end up testing around 15% of them. I know of a cpl who competed a cpl mths back at the NPC Easterns and they used prior and they were fine. I don't know how they wouldn't have tested her in my opinion, her legs were enormous compared to the rest of her.

[tammyp]

any shows that are natural are stated in the title usually. the only nattie npc shows i know are team u and natural ohio.

si i would say you dont have anything to worry about.

[fbbhubby]

I was curious as to know if there are any enhancement products out there that help to eat fat and build lean muscle mass without testosterone for women. I have always went the natural route but wanted to know if there is anything available for women to take that does not contain test.
Thx =))

Another avenue is SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators). Chemicals that activate the androgen receptor but are not androgens. It's kinda new.

[somethinnicea]

Yea this show does not state that...my first show did and they were randomly pulling ppl to test...they didn't ask any of the woman thou.

[somethinnicea]

I'm not sure I am going to try anything...I just wanted to know if there was anything that wouldn't give me masculine side effects. I think I just need to be more patient with diet and training

[PFEPerformance]

:no: Do a non tested show

Don't do a show that is tested and try to "time" yourself and portray yourself as natural.

[somethinnicea]

Like I said before I don't know how some of the competitors get away with trying to pass as natural when its obvious they aren't. I was just curious to see whats "out there" I don't necessarily plan on using anything.

[musclemilf]

Like I said before I don't know how some of the competitors get away with trying to pass as natural when its obvious they aren't. I was just curious to see whats "out there" I don't necessarily plan on using anything.


I went down this same exploration route early last summer. When I considered small doses of anavar, I got lambasted by my friend who has a long history of NPC level competitions. He's also a judge. He told me on no uncertain terms to never attempt to pass myself off as natural in tested shows. He said to get myself in the best condition naturally as possible before even considering using steroids. Steroids are about quarter of the whole equation. You have to get the other 3 quarters dialed in first. The other 3 quarters takes time and is the most difficult part. Some people just don't have the patience to let their bodies grow naturally.

Needless to say, I never did go to the other side. I certainly don't judge others who do.

[somethinnicea]

I would have to disagree w/trying to pass oneself off as natural if your not. I have seen it done at my first all natural show. Few of the ppl there were not all natural but they stopped their cycles in enough time to pass detection. I'm not sure if all NPC shows are all natural but I know of two ppl (unnatural) competed in nov of 09 and had no issues, but again i dont know if that particular show was all natural

[sassy69]

I would have to disagree w/trying to pass oneself off as natural if your not. I have seen it done at my first all natural show. Few of the ppl there were not all natural but they stopped their cycles in enough time to pass detection. I'm not sure if all NPC shows are all natural but I know of two ppl (unnatural) competed in nov of 09 and had no issues, but again i dont know if that particular show was all natural

There are plenty of people who do it, but IMO they are cheating & it speaks volumes about their integrity. I.e. SHITTY sportsmanship. Of course lots of people do it, but why the hell would you if there are a huge number of non-tested shows available? The NPC can't do anything about it if they pass the tests, but for those who then know about it, I think we all consider them to be very poor sportsman/women and like I said, it speaks volumes to their personal integrity. No one is making them do it, and its bullshit if they claim they are natural when probably most people know anyway.

No all NPC shows are not natural. Some are tested and they will state that in their entry requirements.

[somethinnicea]

I totally agree but I was just commenting on the fact that I know ppl do use and enter into natural shows.

[sassy69]

I totally agree but I was just commenting on the fact that I know ppl do use and enter into natural shows.


I think everyone knows at least someone who has.

[somethinnicea]

I've been looking at the NPC upcoming shows, particularly Atlantic states in june to make sure its an all natural show but I can't seem to find where it says whether it is or not. Tammy said it would more than likely be in the title but it doesn't. Does anyone know how I can find this out?

[tammyp]

if it doesnt state it, its non tested. i would say a very small % are tested anyway.

[GirlyMuscle]

The Atlantic is untested. Bev Francis and Steve WEinberger run that one. It will be untested and very competitive.

[PFEPerformance]

there are plenty of people who do it, but imo they are cheating & it speaks volumes about their integrity. I.e. Shitty sportsmanship. Of course lots of people do it, but why the hell would you if there are a huge number of non-tested shows available? The npc can't do anything about it if they pass the tests, but for those who then know about it, i think we all consider them to be very poor sportsman/women and like i said, it speaks volumes to their personal integrity. No one is making them do it, and its bullshit if they claim they are natural when probably most people know anyway.

No all npc shows are not natural. Some are tested and they will state that in their entry requirements.

amen sister!!!

[sassy69]

Its sort of a self-righteous rant, but seriously....

[somethinnicea]

I wasn't referring to poor sportsmanship or "cheating" so to speak. I was just commenting on the fact that I know it happens. Is it right? no, not when you have ppl training hard naturally and then their competing against someone who used enhancements.

[sassy69]

I wasn't referring to poor sportsmanship or "cheating" so to speak. I was just commenting on the fact that I know it happens. Is it right? no, not when you have ppl training hard naturally and then their competing against someone who used enhancements.


In any pursuit, there are people who will cheat. Its human nature.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

It just sucks when there are options available.

[PFEPerformance]

Its sort of a self-righteous rant, but seriously....

I agree with you a million percent!

We all go through early phases of research and trying to determine what is what, what constitutes natural vs enhanced .....etc when we are considering competing. Hek, I've asked questions myself because I had ZERO knowledge of what is or isn't legal....what is or isn't natural.

I have NO problem with those who chose either category! I've got gal pals who chose to go the non-natural route and I'm right there cheering them on!! We are close friends and I believe in their journey as much as I do my own. It is just a personal choice of what your goals are and how you chose to get there. By the same token, they do not portray themselves as natural and do not compete in natural shows.

What does piss me off is busting my ass for months on end, choosing to go natural for my own personal reasons, signing on for a NATURAL comp., signing the paperwork and stating I am natural, willing to take any test they throw my way.....etc.... and non naturals come to the same show, lie, time, and compete beside me!!! WTF man? :dunno: Do I consider them a cheater - YES!! Do I care if they outplace me - yes and no.

I show up with the best package I can and at times on any given day, that may or may not be what the judges are looking for. But, if I and my coach feel I came in with a package that is competitive and placeable...then the rest is a roll of the dice and up to the judges. If I don't place....or even if I do....it is always back to the gym after and try to refine/review/improve and go again. I can't let what others chose to do deter me from my own training, focus, or pride in the package I came in with.

But to see it come down to natty vs non natty and the non-natty wins (which hasn't happened to me personally but has to a very close friend).... it just isn't right on any level. I have to wonder how they go home with their trophy, head held high, and bragging rights of a win KNOWING they cheated?? Did you really win? THAT is just wrong on so many levels and you do not have my respect (not that they care anyway)...

sorry - just my rant chiming in.....

[PFEPerformance]

Like I said before I don't know how some of the competitors get away with trying to pass as natural when its obvious they aren't. I was just curious to see whats "out there" I don't necessarily plan on using anything.

My rant is not an attack on your questions! Just a RANT in general. You have competed, so you KNOW what that frustration is and it is what initiated your question to begin with!

You look FANTASTIC in your show pic girl and it comes down to your own personal and private decision. But, you've got a great package and IMO just keep dialing yourself in and working your ass off in the kitchen and gym and in the end, YOU will be a winner regardless of placement. We all want to win, but, make your decision based on what you can live with and chose what shows you want to compete in accordingly.

[somethinnicea]

Thanks PFEPerformance...I agree with all you say..I can only give my best when it comes to where I place. I always give it my all and I might not be what there looking for at the time or just wasn't "good enough" by the judges standards. I'm curious about whats out there and thats why I'm here asking questions to those who are educated in these areas and can steer me in the right direction. Is it true that you can't go pro if your not using?

[sassy69]

Thanks PFEPerformance...I agree with all you say..I can only give my best when it comes to where I place. I always give it my all and I might not be what there looking for at the time or just wasn't "good enough" by the judges standards. I'm curious about whats out there and thats why I'm here asking questions to those who are educated in these areas and can steer me in the right direction. Is it true that you can't go pro if your not using?

Its not like there's a stated requirement that says you have to use. It takes genetics to start. Lots of work and also being in the right place at the right time.

Also depends on what category pro you're talking about.

Any bikini girl who needs steroids to compete has issues.
Figure, its debatable but the bigger challenge is maintaining a certain degree of leaness for repeated competition at the top level, plus photoshoots and other promo stuff. AAS is probably more useful for maintenance & recovery than growth.

If your goal is to go pro, you don't need to start worrying about running cycles now. YOu need to spend some time competing and see where it takes you. At some point you may or may not determine its the route for you. Its not the foregone conclusion that you may as well not bother competing if you aren't cycling. Its still all about the fitness lifestyle, i.e. the time you put in , the attention you give to diet & training. If it were aall about the roids, everyone would do it. And then they'd discover that your body doesn't work when all it has to work with is roids.

[LookImDancinCrazy!]

I have always went the natural route but wanted to know if there is anything available for women to take that does not contain test.
Thx =))

yes, but despite my best efforts at creating threads about it on various boards, no seems to be picking up on it.

There is good clinical evidence for garlic being able to increase LH and endogenous testosterone production. Only raw garlic was tested in the research but from personal experience I've found high quality pharmaceutical grade freeze dried garlic works just as well and is less stinky. I've used Pharmax brand. It is pricey, but less stinky. Raw garlic is dirt cheap though. Raw you need to consume about 4-5 cloves (about 1/2 a clove) or freeze dried capsules about 7,000mg. The effect isn't profound, but noticeable. Better energy, and definitely better sex drive.

Look for a thread about it in this forum. There I have a link to one piece of original research on it.

EDIT: I'll just link it here.

Take garlic to build natty muscle - RX Muscle Forums

[somethinnicea]

Very interesting info about the garlic...
I read in another forum that is was pretty hard to go pro if you were natural and hasn't been done quite often so I was just curious. I just love being healthy and eating great, love the way it makes me feel and so I figured why not compete and see what happens. I like to consistently set goals and challenge myself physically. Do I have hopes of ever going pro?...prob not but I like competing and having something to work for. I do have the benefit of good genes, most of family has always been very athletic so its kinda built in. I just want the best body I could possible have and have no problem with working hard and eating right, but sometimes I ponder the idea of having a lil extra help.

[Melissa]

Very interesting info about the garlic...
I read in another forum that is was pretty hard to go pro if you were natural and hasn't been done quite often so I was just curious. I just love being healthy and eating great, love the way it makes me feel and so I figured why not compete and see what happens. I like to consistently set goals and challenge myself physically. Do I have hopes of ever going pro?...prob not but I like competing and having something to work for. I do have the benefit of good genes, most of family has always been very athletic so its kinda built in. I just want the best body I could possible have and have no problem with working hard and eating right, but sometimes I ponder the idea of having a lil extra help.

It is absolutely possible to turn pro as a natural competitor, particularly if you stick to the natural organizations such as the INBF. I earned my WNBF pro card in figure in my second year competing, and I had never even touched clen or T3. But I had a pretty decent muscular base from years of competitive gymnastics, soccer, and rowing. As Sassy mentioned earlier, you should do a few shows to see what you look like and how you fare, and then re-evaluate your goals. You really never know where this sport can take you.