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yelverton
02-08-2010, 08:16 PM
Hey all, Im posting this on behalf of a friend as she doesnt have internet at home. There is so much good info on here from experienced ladies so I hope you can help :)

She is about to start a very low dose of test prop, 20mg once a week - all though she trains hard & is in pretty good shape she does not compete. She has quite low test levels & although the dr's say she is within the aceptable level she is at the very lowest end & has many symptoms of low test, i.e no libido, feeling weak & generally having lost her mojo. Dr's in the UK are hopeless with this sort of thing & are just not interested as she's only 35! this has been going on for a year now & she has decided to tackle it herself or at least try.

She has used anavar a few times over the years with no bad sides but she used 15mg a day at max. never injected before - I know we looked at transdermal test i.e testo gel etc but its hard to get in the UK and expensive.

I'm not sure why she decided on test prop, although she did explain I cant actually remember - I really dont know much about test despite reading these forums over & over I'm still confused :confused: but I think sides should be quite minimal at 20mg a week? should she maybe do 10mg twice a week due to the half life of the test prop - is it even possible to pin such a low amount?

Sorry for such a long post & so many questions + thank you all so much for any advice :)

s2h
02-08-2010, 09:26 PM
Hey all, Im posting this on behalf of a friend as she doesnt have internet at home. There is so much good info on here from experienced ladies so I hope you can help :)

She is about to start a very low dose of test prop, 20mg once a week - all though she trains hard & is in pretty good shape she does not compete. She has quite low test levels & although the dr's say she is within the aceptable level she is at the very lowest end & has many symptoms of low test, i.e no libido, feeling weak & generally having lost her mojo. Dr's in the UK are hopeless with this sort of thing & are just not interested as she's only 35! this has been going on for a year now & she has decided to tackle it herself or at least try.

She has used anavar a few times over the years with no bad sides but she used 15mg a day at max. never injected before - I know we looked at transdermal test i.e testo gel etc but its hard to get in the UK and expensive.

I'm not sure why she decided on test prop, although she did explain I cant actually remember - I really dont know much about test despite reading these forums over & over I'm still confused :confused: but I think sides should be quite minimal at 20mg a week? should she maybe do 10mg twice a week due to the half life of the test prop - is it even possible to pin such a low amount?

Sorry for such a long post & so many questions + thank you all so much for any advice :)this is a good question to ask sassy69,other than that my wife is a FBB and i wouldnt advise her to take prop,but it's best one of the ladies like her tell you that have expierence in that area!!

sassy69
02-08-2010, 10:21 PM
So is the only goal to get test levels up to a certain point, or to actually see gains from a cycle?

Of all the test esters available, the ONLY one I'd recommend for a women would be prop. I'm not sure what 20 mg / week is going to do in terms of results. I need to go dig up what is typical test therapy levels for women - I seem to recall that 10 mg /day is normal, but if its for topical, then I would assume the actually amount would be smaller.

yelverton
02-09-2010, 12:02 PM
Yes basicly this is more for a kind of TRT than for muscle gains - Though I guess if this helps bring her levels up then it will help with gaining muscle also? I think she is starting at such low doseage to see if there will be any improvements to her libido, general sense of well being & so forth.

The test prop was chosen so if she does start to develop any bad sides she can stop or lower the dose accordingly it will exit the system must faster. I know she's very worried about injecting etc as she's never injected before & obviously would prefer to inject less often but after much research this seemed the safest bet.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read & reply to this as it really has been getting her down & she's happier now knowing there may be some light at the end of the tunnel!

:-)

yelverton
02-09-2010, 12:07 PM
I forgot to ask - after the 1st shot how long before she may start to notice any improvments &/or sides etc? I've read that test prop really should be injected every 3 days to keep levels stable but theres lots of conflicting advice.

thanks again :-)

-BLP-
02-09-2010, 12:17 PM
she's on birth control pill? because that mess up SHBG big time in some women

yelverton
02-09-2010, 12:46 PM
No not on birth controll pil and hasnt been for 12 years, not taking any kind of medication. I do know they have done loads of blood tests and everything is pretty much as it should be (according to docs) they also did hormone testing for early menopause as she has not had a period for 3 years - this is how she knows her test levels are low.

Thanks :-)

Lee Penman
02-09-2010, 02:13 PM
No not on birth controll pil and hasnt been for 12 years, not taking any kind of medication. I do know they have done loads of blood tests and everything is pretty much as it should be (according to docs) they also did hormone testing for early menopause as she has not had a period for 3 years - this is how she knows her test levels are low.

Thanks :-)
I am hoping I read this wrong and you are not saying that low test levels would cause an absence of her period.....

barbellbarbie
02-09-2010, 02:18 PM
i wouldnt think 20 mg a week of a short ester will do much in the way of upping any level, if you think about how chemicals work (peak dosing, lives ,half lives) it seems that you would need either a tiny dose of a long ester over a period of time until it would effect the test level or you would need a more steady frequency of prop... prop has a 36hr half life (pretty sure anyway) so once a week will not anything really to level your hormonal balance

there is just no way to know how much or little you would need to get to a "normal healthy female range" maybe look at studies and see what IS average for women in your age group then find out what you personally test at before calculating the dosing

sassy69
02-09-2010, 02:58 PM
^^ This was my thought as well. It is very hard to self-medicate & ballpark where you think are in terms of 'appropriate dosing'. But I also wonder about the sides - sometimes it seems like it really doesn't matter the size of the dose - just simply the presence of the compound introduces sides. Frankly, as w/ any use of AAS, no matter how small or how "reliable" you think the compound is, it is still your own personal experiment to see how YOUR body chemistry reacts to whatever you're using. The plus side is that prop is a short-acting ester so if you do get sides you don't like, you can just stop and it will clear relatively quickly.

barbellbarbie
02-09-2010, 03:02 PM
^^ This was my thought as well. It is very hard to self-medicate & ballpark where you think are in terms of 'appropriate dosing'. But I also wonder about the sides - sometimes it seems like it really doesn't matter the size of the dose - just simply the presence of the compound introduces sides. Frankly, as w/ any use of AAS, no matter how small or how "reliable" you think the compound is, it is still your own personal experiment to see how YOUR body chemistry reacts to whatever you're using. The plus side is that prop is a short-acting ester so if you do get sides you don't like, you can just stop and it will clear relatively quickly.
absolutely agree with this. i would never put a long ester test into my bod for this reason

Suzanne
02-09-2010, 03:42 PM
I am hoping I read this wrong and you are not saying that low test levels would cause an absence of her period.....

i believe he was saying:
because she hadn't had a period in 3 years the drs ran hormone level bloodwork
the results of the tests showed that her test. levels were low

musclemilf
02-09-2010, 03:57 PM
Is the goal just increase libido? If so, androgel from a compounding pharmacy can work wonders in that area. I very small dot on the clitoris does the trick.

sassy69
02-09-2010, 04:41 PM
IF you decide to go this route, you're going to have to do the experiment to find the sweet spot, and allot appropriate time to determine if its "really working" - just like everything else in your body, it takes time for your system to adapt to whatever you've put in it, both in terms of having the compound reach its "saturation" level as well as waiting for the hormone flux to settle and see where you are.

W/ prop, because it has a shorter half-life, I'd probably tell you to split the dose into 10 mg x 2/week instead of 1. Then see how it goes.

Did you get progest levels tested?

yelverton
02-09-2010, 05:01 PM
i believe he was saying:
because she hadn't had a period in 3 years the drs ran hormone level bloodwork
the results of the tests showed that her test. levels were low


i believe he was saying:
because she hadn't had a period in 3 years the drs ran hormone level bloodwork
the results of the tests showed that her test. levels were low

Yes this is what I was trying to say, sorry I'm not always good at explaining things lol Also I haven't figured out how to multi quote :confused:

She has been researching this for quite some time and the 20mg a week starting dose seemed like a good starting point as TRT therapy in menopausal women is around 10mg a week (this is what that the doctors go with but they wont for my freind as she is not menopausal) the doctors so far just keep suggesting anti depresants! she does not want or feel she needs ad's but feel her symptoms are more to do with her low test levels. Female BB doses seem to start at around 50mg a week & as she is quite fit & reasonably muscular 20mg seems like a fair place to start. As for the weekly instead of every 3 days, we have read in a couple of places that weekly is fine as is subQ rather than into muscle shots for this purpose??

Again she is just trying to find as much info as possible esp womens experience/sides of test prop at this sort of doseage.

thanks again for taking the time to read & reply it is much appreciated and I'm passing on all the info.

:)

s2h
02-09-2010, 06:38 PM
I would make sure to get some 1cc syringes to draw 10mg.

yelverton
02-09-2010, 07:59 PM
IF you decide to go this route, you're going to have to do the experiment to find the sweet spot, and allot appropriate time to determine if its "really working" - just like everything else in your body, it takes time for your system to adapt to whatever you've put in it, both in terms of having the compound reach its "saturation" level as well as waiting for the hormone flux to settle and see where you are.

W/ prop, because it has a shorter half-life, I'd probably tell you to split the dose into 10 mg x 2/week instead of 1. Then see how it goes.

Did you get progest levels tested?


Wow thanks so much for all the replies

Sassy how long do you think is a good time period to see if its "really working" & whether the doseage should be tweaked a little?

I will pass on the info about the 2x per week jabbing instead of one - I think she's just worried about injecting & has been told T.prop pip is bad although maybe this wouldnt be so bad with such a low dose?

Also what is you thoughts on the SQ injection instead of IM?

I'm not sure about progest levels - i will ask her.

s2h - thanks I will pass that on also - would 1cc be the slin pins & if not could she use these as its such a small amount - am I right in thinking slin pins are much smaller therefore less painfull - I've no experience of injecting so this is all new to me also.

Thank you :)

yelverton
02-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Sorry for so many questions but also due to so much conflicting reading - would she need to run any kind of anti E along with this so prevent water gain etc, as I said she's not looking to compete but does not want to get watery & bloated either.

I guess its prob best to just see how she feel/looks & go from there?

musclemilf
02-09-2010, 08:39 PM
Sorry for so many questions but also due to so much conflicting reading - would she need to run any kind of anti E along with this so prevent water gain etc, as I said she's not looking to compete but does not want to get watery & bloated either.

I guess its prob best to just see how she feel/looks & go from there?

Sassy had an important question in her response about progesterone, which is a precursor to test in women. If her levels are low due to stress or something else going on, that may be the reason her test is low.

Also, it doesn't surprise me that doctor's want to throw ADs at her. ADs will squash any shred of libido she has left! This is a typical response from the mainstream medical community when women feel "low" or "anxious". Instead of looking at a possible underlying endocrinology imbalance as a possibility.

sassy69
02-09-2010, 09:02 PM
Agreed - I'd ignore the anti-d's if its already establsihed that there's a low T level.

If you want to experiment, obviously she needs to be ok w/ injecting. But I would definitely go w/ a slin pin, though you'd probably need a regular pin to draw it. I really can't speak to subQ, possibly heavyiron can (I'll poke him about it.) One hitch w/ test prop is that sometimes it can be a very painful shot, e.g. if not enough BA in it.

In terms of AIs, that's not something you can run forever because there is a need for estrogen in your body. The amount of aromatization from 20 mg of prop should be miniscula so I'd probably not worry about it.

If you want to test this, I'd probably say go w/ it at least for a month. Just like when you are trying to find a 'best dose' birth control, you're screwing w/ your hormone levels and since you're self-medicating you aren't having anyone check levels so its all a big fat crap shoot. So you need to give your body time to accommodate the stuff you're injecting as well as let all the downstream impacts occur. And this ranges from whatever libido, to T-levels, to mood, to the standard sides from acne to yeast infections.

And w/ the stuff I mentioned above - if you're not using prescription pharma grade stuff, then you (or she) needs to be up on all the things that you deal w/ using any AAS, regardless of the amount actually injected. I.e. pinning, pain from the injection, etc.

yelverton
02-09-2010, 09:14 PM
Sassy had an important question in her response about progesterone, which is a precursor to test in women. If her levels are low due to stress or something else going on, that may be the reason her test is low.

Also, it doesn't surprise me that doctor's want to throw ADs at her. ADs will squash any shred of libido she has left! This is a typical response from the mainstream medical community when women feel "low" or "anxious". Instead of looking at a possible underlying endocrinology imbalance as a possibility.

I will defo ask her about the progesterone as I'm not sure on this - the stress part is interesting as her cholesterol was quite high also & the docs went on at her to quit eating eggs & cut down on junk food! she doesnt eat junk etc & I have read many times one of the biggest causes of high cholesterol is stress!

Its hard to determine the exact order of things I guess as if you feel a little low, your libido suffers, libido suffers you feel worse = more stress = a vicious circle - so it continues untill eventually you can persuede a dr to run some tests, even then they are really not interested in helping her except with AD's. its very frustrating!

yelverton
02-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Thanks Sassy this is really usefull info & you've helped loads :)

yep this is definately a learning curve - she has got pharma grade gear & from a trusted source so should be ok there. I guess the first jab will be the hardest but so much good advice from this board on everything she needs to know regarding safe injecting etc so huge thanks to everyone for putting it together.

She it hoping to get started on Thur so untill she gets her net connection back up & running I'll post up how she does & what happens etc for anyone who may be interested in the results.

meanwhile any other heads up on the subQ or IM would be great :)

Chong Li
02-21-2010, 04:19 PM
^ im a male, and alot of other TRT patients on these boards do subq shots. 10mg-40mg done with a insulin needle (if your prop is 100mg/ml) is very easy and quick and painless. i use a 31guage insulin needle. no problems. also, ive done prop IM and it HURTS after about 5 hours inside of you. the injection is fine, but the soreness is out of this world( and my medicine is real rx pharm grade from a doc). when i pin it subq, i experience NO pain at all besides itchy/tenderness and slightly red skin at the spot. VERY manageable. for your doses i dont see any reason why to pin IM

yelverton
02-27-2010, 04:20 PM
Hey all - a quick update, she has done I think 3 shots now or maybe 4? all subq and has had no problems at all. I forgot to post up the answer to the progesterone levels - I did ask & yes app this was also low - stress is defo a big factor in all of this I feel.

Anyhow as its only been 2 weeks there is not much to report except maybe slightly oily skin - She says she feels a little better but this could be down to feeling like she is eventually making a start on getting this thing sorted. I will report back with any more sides or info for anyone who might be interested :-)

Thank you again for so much good advice