discussion on pre-cardio insulin

[Here2Learn]

I talked to a few competitors and they have stated that you can use humalog before cardio to get into a state of burning fat faster even when your fasted...does anyone have experience with this?..

[bad rad]

This doesn't make sense, in the presence of insulin the body won't release fatty acids into the blood stream. This is basic physiology, now if used to enter ketosis that makes sense but that isn't how you do it.

Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/pancreas/insulin_phys.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin

[Here2Learn]

this does not make sense to me still...how can it be used to be put into ketosis but not used for fat loss? i just dont see the logic? if you get put into ketosis your burning fat for fuel correct? so why couldnt u put yourself in a state of "ketosis" right before cardio the get out of it right after...granted ive never done this and probably never will but it seems like it would work

[Bryan Hildebrand]

because to me, your blood sugar is not at a atble place. your body takes more than 20 mins to adjust to the effects of conversion to ketosis.

[Here2Learn]

because to me, your blood sugar is not at a atble place. your body takes more than 20 mins to adjust to the effects of conversion to ketosis.
granted but what happened if you waited 30 minutes after administration?

[joe d]

i wouldnt do that. imo r is a better choice or pre w/o.

[barbellbarbie]

that is extremely dangerous.. are you trying to put yourself in the hospital? have you ever seen someone go hypo because of insulin before? yea well i have and i will say this.. not much in this world actually scares me but slin fuckin terrifies me. there is zero reason for the average lifter to touch that shit

[Aaron Singerman]

Bad idea... I'd like to hear from someone who's actually doing this...

OP, I think maybe you mistakenly meant pre-WORKOUT insulin.

[barbellbarbie]

Bad idea... I'd like to hear from someone who's actually doing this...

OP, I think maybe you mistakenly meant pre-WORKOUT insulin.
pre work out insulin is an equally bad idea,. yes you will get pumped to hell but you will also be fatigued as hell possibly feel weak and very possibly crash your blood sugar..

a guy i was dating was 3 weeks out to a pro qualifier.. he wanted that shit BAD.. he was using slin while dieting (bad idea if low carb) and did one of his shots preworkout.. we were working back.. as we were walking to the next lift he hits the ground.. out cold.. an ambulance ride and 3 day stay in the hospital was NOT what he wanted or needed 3 weeks out of a show.. he could have died his sugar was fuckin 35 when the EMTs got there

it is MUCH safer POST work out..

[Here2Learn]

Bad idea... I'd like to hear from someone who's actually doing this...

OP, I think maybe you mistakenly meant pre-WORKOUT insulin.

Same thats why i started the thread there was one on ProM but it got deleted and a few competitors said it works wonders as well...And no I didnt get it confused I already do PreWO Log. I switched over from post workout after reading FoodFreaks thread and will never look back. I just had to stop listening to BROlogic like barbell barbie is speaking(i mean know disrespect i just dont like opinions from people about subjects they have no first hand experience on and lack of the truth)...if you know what your doing its perfectly safe

[barbellbarbie]

Same thats why i started the thread there was one on ProM but it got deleted and a few competitors said it works wonders as well...And no I didnt get it confused I already do PreWO Log. I switched over from post workout after reading FoodFreaks thread and will never look back. I just had to stop listening to BROlogic like barbell barbie is speaking(i mean know disrespect i just dont like opinions from people about subjects they have no first hand experience on and lack of the truth)...if you know what your doing its perfectly safe
no you are right i am not stupid enough to risk my life with slin so i dont have first hand experience i have 2nd hand experience... many of my friends are running slin as we speak. not a single one PRE work out either.. seems to work just great post work out considering the level of competitor these people are too.. risk vs reward.. you may want to actually think about that sometime. you only get 1 body ...

[bad rad]

Using insulin to hit ketosis is not done while working out. You take 1-2iu at a time while continually checking blood sugar. If you take it before cardio it will drop your blood sugar, inhibit fat release from the fat cell (required for ketosis) and possibly put you in a diabetic coma. Unlike most things we deal with for BBing one side effect of slin is death. I have done slin in the past and the hypo feeling sucks.

[joe d]

i use humulin r sub q pre w/o. at 2-4 iu's it is effective. by the end of the w/o my muscles are being flooded with nutrients.

i have used the others aswell and would never use humalog before a work out. there is no way that could be safe. the hypo from the combo of the fast acting slin and the cardio would come on extremely fast.

using any slin for diet reasons is a bad idea. you should always eat through the slins effective window and not only eat but eat percise amounts of the right foods at the right times. your blood sugar needs to be closely monitored through this aswell.

slin can be used safely (as safe as anything else we do) and effectively but there are a lot of things to learn first.

first rule of slin.
you need carbs to be available at all times. if not you get a quick warning where you will swallow sugar or glucose imediately or you will die. so you can see here where slin and keto dont mix. the line you would have to walk is far to thin.

[bad rad]

i use humulin r sub q pre w/o. at 2-4 iu's it is effective. by the end of the w/o my muscles are being flooded with nutrients.

Do you sip a carb drink while working when doing this? I seen others guys post about it but I'm not quite that adventurous.

[joe d]

Do you sip a carb drink while working when doing this? I seen others guys post about it but I'm not quite that adventurous.

no i dont. but i carry glucose incase i need it. i also eat a meal with simple, medium, and complex carbs pre w/o. i also didnt just start doing that without learning the ropes with slin and my body first. the amound of slin i use, the type i use, and the meal i eat before hand combined with my training plan and precausions i take ahead of time with always having people near me that know what to do. i feal pretty safe. it would be a long shot that id have issues even if i didnt get another meal throughout the slins active window.

[tribal]

pre work out insulin is an equally bad idea,. yes you will get pumped to hell but you will also be fatigued as hell possibly feel weak and very possibly crash your blood sugar..

a guy i was dating was 3 weeks out to a pro qualifier.. he wanted that shit BAD.. he was using slin while dieting (bad idea if low carb) and did one of his shots preworkout.. we were working back.. as we were walking to the next lift he hits the ground.. out cold.. an ambulance ride and 3 day stay in the hospital was NOT what he wanted or needed 3 weeks out of a show.. he could have died his sugar was fuckin 35 when the EMTs got there

it is MUCH safer POST work out..
im curious, are you saying his blood glucose was 35? i cant remember what the normal range was, but when i got a blood test done while i was on a keto diet, my glucose was approx 45, which was about 30 points lower then the normal range...i remember always feeling exhausted...always feeling to drained to get out of bed, off the couch and driving was always hell....are these things connected? are we talking about the same thing when you say his sugar and i say blood glucose?

[Diabetic Muscle]

I would say normal would range 80-120. Yes sugar and blood glucose are the same. If you bg was 45 you have a problem and a serious one at that. I've been in the 30's and that's dangerous as hell. Lethargy is a sign of low bg levels. I'm not sure about other people but when I did keto mine stayed around 70.

[tribal]

I would say normal would range 80-120. Yes sugar and blood glucose are the same. If you bg was 45 you have a problem and a serious one at that. I've been in the 30's and that's dangerous as hell. Lethargy is a sign of low bg levels. I'm not sure about other people but when I did keto mine stayed around 70.
when my dr looked at my results (blood test) HE said i was fine...the reason i got the test was to see why the fuck i was so tired...i was literally falling asleep the whole day but once i went to bed i couldnt sleep:mad::confused:

[-BLP-]

insulin made me so big this offseason it a wonderful drug, i would say stronger then steroid , test + slin + hgh = monster

i consider it super safe, offseason i use slow slin start at 4ui n increase 2ui every day til i reach 20ui, never had coma, or sweat or weakness... and if waist get out of track because eventually it does,, i stop a week n restart at 4ui,, my brologic said it hard to reach 250+ pounds without insulin

keto n slin is big a no , no,, but off diet n carb has u please no prob with slin

this is what important to remember again semi brologic,, hgh without slin will put up more chance to turn diabetic,, then takin slin by itself for a non diabetic

u need shitload of ui to fall in coma,, the body really adapt quick to insulin... some hormone protect u to not die from insulin,, u up slowly dosage n no prob,,, there lot of overhype scary propaganda about slin,, well be 4%BF n step on stage you can be scare either of insulin , , anxiety side's n whatver difficult may come,, been scare doesnt create mass freak monster n nail dry condition

people dont like comparison mma n bbing are extreme sport,, it doesnt say extreme for nothing,,

[NPCKnight]

BLP...you used it pre workout or post workout?

[-BLP-]

use slow slin when i wake up,,,hgh before sleep i know about cortisol but hgh made me knock out like no tomorrow, love the hard rock sleep,, i try milos theory i think it great for me off cycle but on cycle and you know me, always bigger cycle, well too much anabolic n fast insulin made me little off unless i simple carb way too much and since i hold water easy,, i find slow slin more subtle less aggressive n in term of water retention much less,, then again my brologic imagination from trial n error over time that is my personal conclusion,,, slow slin is winner. got people coming to me n said "men your bigger"... after 260 getting size need long consistency,, i could sequence th bigger comments when slow slin was a ED basis.. thks to one of your discussion with maxiliter who wrote about a higher slow slin use n i give it shot,, well , it turn out he was right

[joe d]

BLP...you used it pre workout or post workout?

i think your misunderstanding the different types of slin and their active windows.

if your using humulin n or slow slin it id effective all day but the process is verry gradual and mild. you would use this first thing in the morning.

i you are using humulin r or regular it will start working in about a half hour but wont peak until about 2 hours and wear of after about 5 hours. THIS IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE

if you use humilog or quick slin it starts working almost imediately and peaks in 15-30 minutes.

so the time you take the slin and before what activities would really depend on the slin being used.

the hypo danger is generally more so with the quick slin because there is less time to correct error.

i have heard of users taking humulin n in the morning and then using humilog with their big meals. THESE PEOPLE WILL ALMOST DEFINATELY BECOME DIABETIC.

diabetes imo is the only real danger for someone with the knowlege needed to use slin and the common sence to use precaution.

how many diabetics have you known to live a long healthy life.

[NPCKnight]

by the way....pre cardio slin is a stupid/bad idea IMO.

[BigJD69]

Will using some of the Type 2 Diabetes Meds. such as Byetta, Glumetza or Metformin prior to cardio assist in fat burning???

[-BLP-]

im using slow slin now , but remember in past have crazy outstanding energy after quick slin shot but it was 1 out 5 and cant retrace why it did happen

[BigJD69]

Will using some of the Type 2 Diabetes Meds. such as Byetta, Glumetza or Metformin prior to cardio assist in fat burning???
Anyone???

[Diabetic Muscle]

how many diabetics have you known to live a long healthy life.

Thanks for reminding me. haha

[joe d]

Thanks for reminding me. haha

damn... now i feal like an ass. sorry man

[joe d]

by the way....pre cardio slin is a stupid/bad idea IMO.

what exactly do you find to be stupid or bad about taking humulin r before a 30 minute cardio sesson? please explain with some detail.

[vanya]

Anyone???

I would imagine so. Both slin and metformin drop your blood sugar levels, BUT slin is the storage hormone which is why you cant burn fat while it's active if my understanding is correct. Whereas metformin simply decreases your blood sugar without any storage effects... i think :)

[Diabetic Muscle]

damn... now i feal like an ass. sorry man

Haha no worries I know that wasn't directed at me. Besides its true, that's why I don't mind trying all the "goodies". Gonna die sometime might as well make them order me a special wide coffin to fit me in.

[JWolfe]

So I have been thinking about this post and if there is any logic to doing this or not. My first thought is as everyone is saying that no this would be dumb, but I like to try to look at things from the other side also. I'm going to throw out some ideas on why it MAY work just kind of thinking out loud and maybe someone can point out the flaw in it that way we may learn better, so keep in mind I am only trying to see why it could work not saying it will or is even a good idea to try.
Ok so our pretend body builder gets up and let's say he is fasted and has a blood sugar level of 90 he takes his morning HGH that we all know will increase the use of fat for energy over protein and glycogen. Now the body is always going to use all 3 no way around that fully. So now he takes 2iu of humalog we will say, insulin being a storage hormone is anabolic in nature and has anti catabolic affects on muscle. Now this 2iu drops his blood sugar down to let's pretend 75 and he starts his low intensity cardio for 45 min with his blood sugar lower his body has to turn to other sorces or energy like fat and converting BCAA's to glycogen for energy but since it is low intensity his body is able to use fat as a fuel source fine and he has the muscle saving affect of the insulin in his system. Now norml logic says insulin stops the break down of fatty acids so bad idea but in this case if that were true what would his cals used for energy be comming from? My guess would be from already in the blood tryglycerides those would be burnt up and then later after the insulin clears the body then stored fat would break down and replace those levels burnt up from the cardio. Any thought on why that could not be true?

[bad rad]

So I have been thinking about this post and if there is any logic to doing this or not. My first thought is as everyone is saying that no this would be dumb, but I like to try to look at things from the other side also. I'm going to throw out some ideas on why it MAY work just kind of thinking out loud and maybe someone can point out the flaw in it that way we may learn better, so keep in mind I am only trying to see why it could work not saying it will or is even a good idea to try.
Ok so our pretend body builder gets up and let's say he is fasted and has a blood sugar level of 90 he takes his morning HGH that we all know will increase the use of fat for energy over protein and glycogen. Now the body is always going to use all 3 no way around that fully. So now he takes 2iu of humalog we will say, insulin being a storage hormone is anabolic in nature and has anti catabolic affects on muscle. Now this 2iu drops his blood sugar down to let's pretend 75 and he starts his low intensity cardio for 45 min with his blood sugar lower his body has to turn to other sorces or energy like fat and converting BCAA's to glycogen for energy but since it is low intensity his body is able to use fat as a fuel source fine and he has the muscle saving affect of the insulin in his system. Now norml logic says insulin stops the break down of fatty acids so bad idea but in this case if that were true what would his cals used for energy be comming from? My guess would be from already in the blood tryglycerides those would be burnt up and then later after the insulin clears the body then stored fat would break down and replace those levels burnt up from the cardio. Any thought on why that could not be true?

If he didn't pass out from hypoglycemia then his body will use a mix of glycogen and amino acids in the muscle cells since insulin is trying to drive any aminos or glucose into the muscle/fat cells. One way it might work is insulin hours before to lower blood glucose and then HGH just before cardio, still not very smart IMO since hypoglycemia can come on quickly.

[JWolfe]

I agree it would need to be a very low does like 1 or 2 iu and require constant checking of blood sugar levels. Probably quite dangerous but I'm not debating that at all we all know that part lol.

[JWolfe]

Any one else with ideas on this? As an experiment for it to see what kind of affect I would have on blood sugar I took 2iu R pre cardio with 15g BCAA's, I have been low carb for over a month now. Pre cardio I was at 92, 1 hr after the shot and 30 min into cardio I was at 90 and an hr after I was only down to 83 so if it would work it seems the dose would need to be higher.