Dbol and liver enzymes...

[templecombe]

Just curious on your thoughts here as I'm preparing for a cycle in the future.

Last gig I did was over a decade ago and was just Test C. I'm currently 37, 6'4, 240 and around 20% BF.

So I'm tossing the idea of Test E/C only or a combo kick start with dbol (25mg). I've had a full physical and the only thing that was abnormal was my AST and ALT (elevated x2). Background here is they have always been high since my 20's even when I was in the service and in top-notch shape with low BF. I did drink a lot over the years as well. Anyways, I don't any longer and I think the numbers will slowly come down. I'm been taking NAC as well the last couple of weeks to clean shit up (and will continue to do so). Part of my physical included a full work up of my liver (labs, CT) as I have a very good sports-minded doc (wink, wink). In the end everything is cool with it but he said I have a fatty liver due to the shitty diet over the years. He said if I continue working out, eating right and bringing my BF% down I'll be good to go. I'm obviously doing and will continue to do so.

So, I've been going back and forth on the low dosage of dbol because I'm ultra paranoid. I know a short 4 weeks probably is the equivalent of me drinking every night, but since I have never used it before I am hesitant. Just curious what your thoughts are and if anyone has had any similar circumstances.

Thanks all,
Temple

[Swiper]

Just curious on your thoughts here as I'm preparing for a cycle in the future.

Last gig I did was over a decade ago and was just Test C. I'm currently 37, 6'4, 240 and around 20% BF.

So I'm tossing the idea of Test E/C only or a combo kick start with dbol (25mg). I've had a full physical and the only thing that was abnormal was my AST and ALT (elevated x2). Background here is they have always been high since my 20's even when I was in the service and in top-notch shape with low BF. I did drink a lot over the years as well. Anyways, I don't any longer and I think the numbers will slowly come down. I'm been taking NAC as well the last couple of weeks to clean shit up (and will continue to do so). Part of my physical included a full work up of my liver (labs, CT) as I have a very good sports-minded doc (wink, wink). In the end everything is cool with it but he said I have a fatty liver due to the shitty diet over the years. He said if I continue working out, eating right and bringing my BF% down I'll be good to go. I'm obviously doing and will continue to do so.

So, I've been going back and forth on the low dosage of dbol because I'm ultra paranoid. I know a short 4 weeks probably is the equivalent of me drinking every night, but since I have never used it before I am hesitant. Just curious what your thoughts are and if anyone has had any similar circumstances.

Thanks all,
Temple

no need to "front load" start it at week 4. when your test will start to kick. that way you'll have both the oral and test kicking in at the same time to get in that total anabolic state. get down to at least 12% bf. then start ur cycle at 500 mg ew 4 12 weeks.

[apex23]

How long does it take for D-bol to actually start increasing strength? Does it take a week or longer?

[templecombe]

no need to "front load" start it at week 4. when your test will start to kick. that way you'll have both the oral and test kicking in at the same time to get in that total anabolic state. get down to at least 12% bf. then start ur cycle at 500 mg ew 4 12 weeks.
Well, since Cyp is a long ester it makes sense to me to start weeks 1-4 with dbol and stop right when the test kicks in.

Any comment on the AST and ALT's?

[Swiper]

Well, since Cyp is a long ester it makes sense to me to start weeks 1-4 with dbol and stop right when the test kicks in. ok, but that makes no sense to me.
Any comment on the AST and ALT's? No.


Sorry, I don't understand your logic.

[BudTheBuilder]

Wouldn't you want to lower your body fat just a little bit before? and since it has been a while why not just use test.

[apex23]

I agree, Start with a moderate dose of Test, diet, and cardio.

[templecombe]

Point taken. I am still curious though as to the actual #'s that the dbol would raise one's AST and ALT.

Temple

[collegelinebacker31]

How long does it take for D-bol to actually start increasing strength? Does it take a week or longer?

i've heard ppl say anywhere from 2days to 2 weeks. so you'll have to try it and find out for yourself. ive been on dbol for 13 days and havent really felt much from it. but i have a feeling i got some bunk shit. good luck

[BULLDOZER]

Just curious on your thoughts here as I'm preparing for a cycle in the future.

Last gig I did was over a decade ago and was just Test C. I'm currently 37, 6'4, 240 and around 20% BF.

So I'm tossing the idea of Test E/C only or a combo kick start with dbol (25mg). I've had a full physical and the only thing that was abnormal was my AST and ALT (elevated x2). Background here is they have always been high since my 20's even when I was in the service and in top-notch shape with low BF. I did drink a lot over the years as well. Anyways, I don't any longer and I think the numbers will slowly come down. I'm been taking NAC as well the last couple of weeks to clean shit up (and will continue to do so). Part of my physical included a full work up of my liver (labs, CT) as I have a very good sports-minded doc (wink, wink). In the end everything is cool with it but he said I have a fatty liver due to the shitty diet over the years. He said if I continue working out, eating right and bringing my BF% down I'll be good to go. I'm obviously doing and will continue to do so.

So, I've been going back and forth on the low dosage of dbol because I'm ultra paranoid. I know a short 4 weeks probably is the equivalent of me drinking every night, but since I have never used it before I am hesitant. Just curious what your thoughts are and if anyone has had any similar circumstances.

Thanks all,
Temple
4 weeks at 25mg is pretty safe bro

[apex23]

Point taken. I am still curious though as to the actual #'s that the dbol would raise one's AST and ALT.

Temple



It is going to vary. All of our bodies are different.

[Brock]

It is going to vary. All of our bodies are different.

Good call. And even if you did know what the "numbers" are, you wouldn't know for sure what effect it would have.

[Brock]

Well, since Cyp is a long ester it makes sense to me to start weeks 1-4 with dbol and stop right when the test kicks in.

Any comment on the AST and ALT's?




Sorry, I don't understand your logic.


temple is saying that he wants to start growing from day 1 and the drop the Dbol (like a fool) right when the test kicks in.

Get it now, Swiper?

[Swiper]

temple is saying that he wants to start growing from day 1 and the drop the Dbol (like a fool) right when the test kicks in.

Get it now, Swiper?

yeah, but he's not going to grow much on 4 weeks of dbol the first 4 weeks of a test c or e cycle. As you know, there is no right or wrong way. Just a matter of opinion, on when to start the dbol.

[Dr Pangloss]

yeah, but he's not going to grow much on 4 weeks of dbol the first 4 weeks of a test c or e cycle. As you know, there is no right or wrong way. Just a matter of opinion, on when to start the dbol.


There is absolutely no distinguishing logic for starting d-bol at 4 weeks in. There is logic but no evidence for starting dbol at the beginning.

In the end, noone has any evidence one way is better than the other, so why people go around making these unsupportable distinctions is beyond me.

Again, i don't give a fuck what some lame-asses' "experience" is. Chances are, he hasn't even compared the two on himself in a reasonable manner. Chances are high that noone has documented ANY difference in accruel of lean muscle mass in a comparison between different starting points for dbol.

If someone has, they should produce scans of the witnessed and validated raw recorded data from which they drew the conclusion.

[Swiper]

There is absolutely no distinguishing logic for starting d-bol at 4 weeks in. yes there is. There is logic but no evidence for starting dbol at the beginning.

In the end, noone has any evidence one way is better than the other, so why people go around making these unsupportable distinctions is beyond me.

Again, i don't give a fuck what some lame-asses' "experience" is. Chances are, he hasn't even compared the two on himself in a reasonable manner. Chances are high that noone has documented ANY difference in accruel of lean muscle mass in a comparison between different starting points for dbol.

If someone has, they should produce scans of the witnessed and validated raw recorded data from which they drew the conclusion.

Like i said, it's all a matter of opinion. Why don't you try it yourself and see what you like better?

[Dr Pangloss]

Like i said, it's all a matter of opinion. Why don't you try it yourself and see what you like better?

If I were actually trying to ascertain a real distinction, i would not simply "try it myself" because self-assessment without hard metrics, multiple samples, and controls is profoundly confounded by a thousand different things.

Most people have no appreciation for how little their individual perception is able to distinguish. Experience in this sort of conjecture is fucking useless.

I would bet anyone making these distinctions has never actually documented a comparable difference between the two approaches. for instance, as a significant increase in lean body mass with one way versus the other after the cycle.

And by the way, I've tried it all kinds of ways. I've started in the beginning, the middle, and the end. Frankly, i cannot, based on my experience, conclude one of those ways is much better than the others.

[Hendog]

I have trouble trying to decipher which way is better as well.

I have started Dbol right at the beginning and started it at 4 weeks in and I am not sure which way turned out better in the end for muscle gain.

I can tell you that I LIKE running the oral during the later part of a cycle because I like to keep my strength up.