Food: Friend or Foe?

[Sistersteel]

Eating disorders continue to be on the rise among athletes, especially those involved in sports that place great emphasis on the athlete's physique. Sports such as gymnastics, figure skating, dancing and synchronized swimming, and especially bodybuilding have a higher percentage of athletes with eating disorders, than sports such as basketball, skiing and volleyball.

In the last few years, researchers have linked bodybuilding to an overwhelming drive for lean muscle mass coined "reverse anorexia". The bodybuilders' obsessional behavior resembles anorexia nervosa with remarkable similarity except that the drive for enormous muscles replaces the drive for thinness. This alarming psychological syndrome may motivate bodybuilders and weightlifters, to a lesser extent, to relinquish friends, to give up responsibilities, to pursue unusual diets, to overtrain and to risk their health by abusing steroids.

Bodybuilders were found to possess greater body dissatisfaction than athletes from any other sport.

Let us discuss our struggles with food. I know many ladies have made mention of having had issues of this nature at one point or another throughout the course of their athletic careers.

Do you think women are more prone to developing eating disorders in the lifestyle? Or does the disease not discriminate between male and female bodybuilders?

Do you think that bodybuilding feeds an eating disorder or does it add structure to our eating regimens?

Discuss.

[gman]

I am having people tell me that I am a loon for being so obsessed with eating this way. But I want to succeed for once in my life to get lean.

I wish I could tell you whether I had an eating disorder or not. I like to say I don't.

On the other hand, all I see in my avatar is an extremely fat middle aged guy, and for bodybuilding purposes I am extremely fat, but for every day life, I am probably pretty good.

That lends credence to me having some sort of problem IMO.

[Suzy Brown]

Keto diet made me finally feel over all ED. I think I was just protein deficient, combined with being slightly hypoglycemic. I feel so much better with less carbs. Its amazing.

[gman]

I agree Susan, I am no longer a carb craving slave to food now. Keto has taken away my hunger.

[Sistersteel]

I am having people tell me that I am a loon for being so obsessed with eating this way. But I want to succeed for once in my life to get lean.

I wish I could tell you whether I had an eating disorder or not. I like to say I don't.

On the other hand, all I see in my avatar is an extremely fat middle aged guy, and for bodybuilding purposes I am extremely fat, but for every day life, I am probably pretty good.

That lends credence to me having some sort of problem IMO.


You're a sweetheart :)
I don't think you have a problem with anything honestly. I just think you
are a motivated and driven individual. But its amusing to have you on here trying to find something wrong with yourself :) You don't have to have issues to make a good bodybuilder. You should be happy that your motivation and desire to improve yourself are what drive you :)

[gman]

Just trying to fit in! lol

Seriously, I do have an issue of being afraid to succeed and it has derailed me a couple of times, but that is the title of another thread, and probably not good to discuss in an Eating disorders thread!

[Suzy Brown]

Back to the original post, I think that people with ED flock to BB, etc, because then they can say its part of their lifestyle, not a "diet." I think a lot of people lie to themselves about their motivation for eating or not eating, or restricting, or supplementing or failing to supplement...

BB dieting can give structure and help fix ED, or just be a substitute. Depends on the person and their motivations!
Like me for example... I think I was 'feeding' my ED with a diet that creates depression and dissaociation (vegan/ raw food) so for me high protein filled in the blanks and created a type of health & vitality I hadn't experienced in literally decades. The "lifestyle" cured the ED.

There is a chick on BB.com we've all heard of tho, who is classic ortho. She acts like she's all about the sprot but she doesn't compete, stays at like 8%BF year round, hasn't had a period in God knows when... that's ED.

[tiramisu]

Between the keto, zone, and see-food diets I'm starting to feel a little disordered. My wife is trying to be supportive but she is finding my eating behavior fairly odd.

[Dr Pangloss]

I am having people tell me that I am a loon for being so obsessed with eating this way. But I want to succeed for once in my life to get lean.

I wish I could tell you whether I had an eating disorder or not. I like to say I don't.

On the other hand, all I see in my avatar is an extremely fat middle aged guy, and for bodybuilding purposes I am extremely fat, but for every day life, I am probably pretty good.

That lends credence to me having some sort of problem IMO.


believe me, everyone will stand in your way on this one. Your mother, father, brothers, sisters, everyone. It's not an eating disorder to try and reduce your bodyfat. It's some kind of disorder, however, to feel the need to sabotage someone who is trying to clean up their act and get leaner.

[Sistersteel]

I have struggled with food my entire life and bodybuilding makes it easier for me to adhere to a specific regimen that requires me to eat frequently. I have a tendency to skip meals and go for days without food. I almost starved myself to death when I was a teenager. To this day, I have no idea when I am hungry, or satiated. I have no specific food preferences. I eat because I have to and not because I want to. I crave nothing when I am dieting and never go out of my way to add flavor to my food or make it taste any better. I can literally eat crap for months on end with no problem. My eating disorder and food phobia have made it difficult for me to associate food with comfort.

I will tell you this though. I hate oatmeal because of the texture, and absolutely love fruits.

I think its more my upbringing that resulted in my food phobia. I was an 11lb baby and so I been a big person my entire life. My family pressured me into staying lean and athletic and I have been dieting since I was in kindergarden. I remember going to school with nothing in my lunchbox but carrots. I had a girlfriend whose mother would fix double sandwiches for her daughter so that I had something to eat as well. By the time I was 12 I was being dragged out of bed at dawn to jog with my father. So it comes very naturally to me to diet year round. I don't know if my parents fucked me all up or did me a favor. Maybe a little of both.

[Mercury]

believe me, everyone will stand in your way on this one. Your mother, father, brothers, sisters, everyone. It's not an eating disorder to try and reduce your bodyfat. It's some kind of disorder, however, to feel the need to sabotage someone who is trying to clean up their act and get leaner.

You are absolutely right! And so many people do that!

[BK]

I have struggled with food my entire life and bodybuilding makes it easier for me to adhere to a specific regimen that requires me to eat frequently. I have a tendency to skip meals and go for days without food. I almost starved myself to death when I was a teenager. To this day, I have no idea when I am hungry, or satiated. I have no specific food preferences. I eat because I have to and not because I want to. I crave nothing when I am dieting and never go out of my way to add flavor to my food or make it taste any better. I can literally eat crap for months on end with no problem. My eating disorder and food phobia have made it difficult for me to associate food with comfort.

I will tell you this though. I hate oatmeal because of the texture, and absolutely love fruits.

I think its more my upbringing that resulted in my food phobia. I was an 11lb baby and so I been a big person my entire life. My family pressured me into staying lean and athletic and I have been dieting since I was in kindergarden. I remember going to school with nothing in my lunchbox but carrots. I had a girlfriend whose mother would fix double sandwiches for her daughter so that I had something to eat as well. By the time I was 12 I was being dragged out of bed at dawn to jog with my father. So it comes very naturally to me to diet year round. I don't know if my parents fucked me all up or did me a favor. Maybe a little of both.
Thats not a typical lifestyle to lead as a child, but you probably are quite successful as a result of the discipline and work ethic that was instilled in you at an early age.

[Sistersteel]

Thats not a typical lifestyle to lead as a child, but you probably are quite successful as a result of the discipline and work ethic that was instilled in you at an early age.

I think it certainly has contributed to my work ethic as an athlete, but coupled with my obsessive compulsive nature it has been hard to develop healthy habits.

[BK]

If you look at alot of current/former professional athletes, then they don't put much stock in how healthy they eat. They eat to perform and to function and not to look good.

If you look at alot of your strength athletes, you will see the same thing. They are muscular but they might be 10-15% BF which is not fat by any means if you are 250 lbs+. But I read some posts where bodybuilders say that somebody carrying 10% BF is fat. I find that a bit disturbing and problematic.

Bodybuilding is more of a vanity lifestyle then an athletic, functional lifestyle. Bodybuilders are concerned about how they look and not how they function or how strong they can get. I have talked to several bodybuilders and they have all said that teh majority of them have self-esteem and/of self-image problems.

[Sistersteel]

If you look at alot of current/former professional athletes, then they don't put much stock in how healthy they eat. They eat to perform and to function and not to look good.

If you look at alot of your strength athletes, you will see the same thing. They are muscular but they might be 10-15% BF which is not fat by any means if you are 250 lbs+. But I read some posts where bodybuilders say that somebody carrying 10% BF is fat. I find that a bit disturbing and problematic.

Bodybuilding is more of a vanity lifestyle then an athletic, functional lifestyle. Bodybuilders are concerned about how they look and not how they function or how strong they can get. I have talked to several bodybuilders and they have all said that teh majority of them have self-esteem and/of self-image problems.

This post reminds me of a recent conversation I had with one of the male lifters on my team. We were talking about Cherryl Hayworth. She is one of the most prominent superheavy weight females competing on the circuit right now. Cherryl was 330lb at 5'7" at her heaviest, and I dread to inform you that was not muscle mass. So the thing that scares me the most about my sport is the fact that it encourages women to look like obese whales to perform better.

So I told the guy that I would rather shoot myself then look like Cherryl Hayworth. If looking like that made me a better lifter, then I wanted to be a very lousy one. He said that I was still thinking like a bodybuilder. Olympic Weight Lifting is not about how you look. Its about how much weight you can get over your head. I never thought about it like that though. In my mind an athlete should look like an athlete. The same can be said about many powerlifters, many of them get really heavy and all that extra weight can certainly hinder performance. There is a point of diminishing returns. I totally agree with you though. Bodybuilders who think that single digit bodyfat year round is a necessity to be successful in this sport, are dillusional.

And yes, bodybuilding has nothing to do with performance so I try to maintain a balance between how I would like to look and what I would like to train for. It hinders my progress as a strength athlete but I cannot rid myself of certain habits that the bodybuilding lifestyle has instilled in me.

[BK]

This post reminds me of a recent conversation I had with one of the male lifters on my team. We were talking about Cherryl Hayworth. She is one of the most prominent superheavy weight females competing on the circuit right now. Cherryl was 330lb at 5'7" at her heaviest, and I dread to inform you that was not muscle mass. So the thing that scares me the most about my sport is the fact that it encourages women to look like obese whales to perform better.

So I told the guy that I would rather shoot myself then look like Cherryl Hayworth. If looking like that made me a better lifter, then I wanted to be a very lousy one. He said that I was still thinking like a bodybuilder. Olympic Weight Lifting is not about how you look. Its about how much weight you can get over your head. I never thought about it like that though. In my mind an athlete should look like an athlete. The same can be said about many powerlifters, many of them get really heavy and all that extra weight can certainly hinder performance. There is a point of diminishing returns. I totally agree with you though. Bodybuilders who think that single digit bodyfat year round is a necessity to be successful in this sport, are dillusional.

And yes, bodybuilding has nothing to do with performance so I try to maintain a balance between how I would like to look and what I would like to train for. It hinders my progress as a strength athlete but I cannot rid myself of certain habits that the bodybuilding lifestyle has instilled in me.
Yea she is a hoss to say the least. I think if you look at any sport though, the majority of Supers or athletes over 300+ ae going to be carrying around too much bodyfat. Generally your middleweights (225-265), look athletic and muscular.

[Sistersteel]

Yea she is a hoss to say the least. I think if you look at any sport though, the majority of Supers or athletes over 300+ ae going to be carrying around too much bodyfat. Generally your middleweights (225-265), look athletic and muscular.


Yes, true. But for some reason I am not as appauled by a man weighing 300lb as I am by a woman weighing 300lb with no regards to how she looks. I guess the same can be said about female bodybuilders who drug real heavy. Athletes will sacrifice quite a bit to excel in their sport.

[BK]

Yes, true. But for some reason I am not as appauled by a man weighing 300lb as I am by a woman weighing 300lb with no regards to how she looks. I guess the same can be said about female bodybuilders who drug real heavy. Athletes will sacrifice quite a bit to excel in their sport.
She is very athletic for a big girl, but you are right especially with her high BF %. As far the female BB's who drug, it would not be so bad if they're faces did not take on such a masculine look and what it does to there female anatomy. It is a sacrifice and a choice no doubt.
I jsut always wondered why super Oly. lifters don't take much stock in what they consume. It seems that they would be more athletic able to get in a better position on OH's and cleans if there waistlines were a bit smaller.

[Sistersteel]

She is very athletic for a big girl, but you are right especially with her high BF %. As far the female BB's who drug, it would not be so bad if they're faces did not take on such a masculine look and what it does to there female anatomy. It is a sacrifice and a choice no doubt.
I jsut always wondered why super Oly. lifters don't take much stock in what they consume. It seems that they would be more athletic able to get in a better position on OH's and cleans if there waistlines were a bit smaller.


Yes, you are very right. She is unbelievably athletic. Did you know that Cherryl has a 22" vertical jump? That is phenomenal. They also have the Cherryl Hayworth Classic..you know you are a big deal when they name a meet after you.

Honestly, some Oly Supers use the huge gut to their advantage. I cannot tell you how much it helps to actually rest that bar on your gut instead of on your clavicles. Makes cleaning a whole lot more effective. Not that I would know cuz the only place I am racking that bar is on my clavicles. I honestly do not know how you can keep the bar so close to the body on the second pull on cleans when you have such a huge gut. Its hard enough having boobs. The bar gets stuck under my boobs if I do not stand upright with the bar.

So, its not as big a hinderance as you might think.

Now if you want the honest truth.. I am ten times more comfortable with the bigger weights when I am fatter. The cushion just makes for great support. I just hate the way I look. Its not worth looking like a whale for me to pull more weight. That is not vanity. Its the simple fact that I make a living off the way I look. I got at least 190lb of muscle on my 5'5" frame and when I am lean, everything hurts when I lift! Its a struggle really.

[BK]

Yes, you are very right. She is unbelievably athletic. Did you know that Cherryl has a 22" vertical jump? That is phenomenal. They also have the Cherryl Hayworth Classic..you know you are a big deal when they name a meet after you.

Honestly, some Oly Supers use the huge gut to their advantage. I cannot tell you how much it helps to actually rest that bar on your gut instead of on your clavicles. Makes cleaning a whole lot more effective. Not that I would know cuz the only place I am racking that bar is on my clavicles. I honestly do not know how you can keep the bar so close to the body on the second pull on cleans when you have such a huge gut. Its hard enough having boobs. The bar gets stuck under my boobs if I do not stand upright with the bar.

So, its not as big a hinderance as you might think.

Now if you want the honest truth.. I am ten times more comfortable with the bigger weights when I am fatter. The cushion just makes for great support. I just hate the way I look. Its not worth looking like a whale for me to pull more weight. That is not vanity. Its the simple fact that I make a living off the way I look. I got at least 190lb of muscle on my 5'5" frame and when I am lean, everything hurts when I lift! Its a struggle really.
Oh yea I know about how a big gut improves your leverages, but I am like you in wondering how much more if any improvement they would get if they were a litel leaner in the waist line. But I guess if you perform 1000's of cleans then you will get accustomed to the belly. I know a big gut is more advantageous to your taller lifter from a leverage standpoint. Alot of your SHW powerlfters who are 6'2" or taller are fat on purpose just for that fact. They can get a better push against there belt when squatting and they remove several inches from there Bench press becasue of the belly.
Obviously a lifter like Chermekin benfited from this becasue of his taller stature, but I wonder if a lifter like Shane Hamman would have done better at a lighter bodyweight. He is only 5'9" and could dunk a basketball at his bodyweight.

[Sistersteel]

Oh yea I know about how a big gut improves your leverages, but I am like you in wondering how much more if any improvement they would get if they were a litel leaner in the waist line. But I guess if you perform 1000's of cleans then you will get accustomed to the belly. I know a big gut is more advantageous to your taller lifter from a leverage standpoint. Alot of your SHW powerlfters who are 6'2" or taller are fat on purpose just for that fact. They can get a better push against there belt when squatting and they remove several inches from there Bench press becasue of the belly.
Obviously a lifter like Chermekin benfited from this becasue of his taller stature, but I wonder if a lifter like Shane Hamman would have done better at a lighter bodyweight. He is only 5'9" and could dunk a basketball at his bodyweight.


To each their own I guess. I just think its far more impressive to be smaller and lift big weights that to be big and lift big weights. Believe me, I do not exactly fit into that category because I am huge. lol But there are girls on my team in the 48kg class who can put up three times their body weight. I just find that very impressive. But I try not to beat myself up over it. I am very strong but I only been lifting for the team for a short while. The other girls have been doing it for 15 years. In 15 years your technique can improve significantly. My biggest problem is I rely too much on strength. Makes it very hard for me to perfect technique because I know I can muscle that bitch.

[Gerb]

I have struggled with food my entire life and bodybuilding makes it easier for me to adhere to a specific regimen that requires me to eat frequently. I have a tendency to skip meals and go for days without food. I almost starved myself to death when I was a teenager. To this day, I have no idea when I am hungry, or satiated. I have no specific food preferences. I eat because I have to and not because I want to. I crave nothing when I am dieting and never go out of my way to add flavor to my food or make it taste any better. I can literally eat crap for months on end with no problem. My eating disorder and food phobia have made it difficult for me to associate food with comfort.

I will tell you this though. I hate oatmeal because of the texture, and absolutely love fruits.

I think its more my upbringing that resulted in my food phobia. I was an 11lb baby and so I been a big person my entire life. My family pressured me into staying lean and athletic and I have been dieting since I was in kindergarden. I remember going to school with nothing in my lunchbox but carrots. I had a girlfriend whose mother would fix double sandwiches for her daughter so that I had something to eat as well. By the time I was 12 I was being dragged out of bed at dawn to jog with my father. So it comes very naturally to me to diet year round. I don't know if my parents fucked me all up or did me a favor. Maybe a little of both.

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I have alot of questions for you but I'll start with a couple simple ones and then my thoughts on food. Did your parents know about your eating disorder/struggles and at what age did you realize you had issues related to food?

On food, I have always viewed food as fuel, nothing more, nothing less, recently I started drinking a majority of my food by blending it up so I can finish it faster. I don't enjoy eating at all, I don't enjoy splurging and feel very guilty if I do. So I typically don't. Every meal I eat needs to have a functional base to it, a reason why I am eating it, how it fits into my daily macro plan or I simply will not eat it. For the most part, I stick to my diet plan always getting in my scheduled calories and meals. I have begun to wonder how healthy my view on food is. Most people like food, I resent it. As I have gotten older, I have started to see how my views on food might be negatively impacting my daughters (9 and 16yrs old). I don't talk about my views on food (the above comments) with them but they know I eat food based on how functional it is for my body. For them, I am not too strick but as both are athletes, my wife and I stress the importance of food being the nutritional base and foundation for their success in their sports. Lately thou, I have come to understand that I need to make sure they realize it is ok to enjoy splurge foods in moderations and to make sure they have a healthy mind set on the subject. It is a tough subject for sure. As I learn more about eating disorders I begin to wonder if I myself have my own issues and then I struggle with how a father is to teach his daughters about healthy eating habits when I myself struggle. Tough subject for sure but thanks for sharing your story.

[gman]

My daughter is a swimmer and gets teased about having fat legs. It really pisses me off that the other 10 year olds tease her when she could kick their asses. We assure her that it's because she has muscle, not fat in her legs.

It worries me she could get an ED from this kind of crap.

[Sistersteel]

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I have alot of questions for you but I'll start with a couple simple ones and then my thoughts on food. Did your parents know about your eating disorder/struggles and at what age did you realize you had issues related to food?

On food, I have always viewed food as fuel, nothing more, nothing less, recently I started drinking a majority of my food by blending it up so I can finish it faster. I don't enjoy eating at all, I don't enjoy splurging and feel very guilty if I do. So I typically don't. Every meal I eat needs to have a functional base to it, a reason why I am eating it, how it fits into my daily macro plan or I simply will not eat it. For the most part, I stick to my diet plan always getting in my scheduled calories and meals. I have begun to wonder how healthy my view on food is. Most people like food, I resent it. As I have gotten older, I have started to see how my views on food might be negatively impacting my daughters (9 and 16yrs old). I don't talk about my views on food (the above comments) with them but they know I eat food based on how functional it is for my body. For them, I am not too strick but as both are athletes, my wife and I stress the importance of food being the nutritional base and foundation for their success in their sports. Lately thou, I have come to understand that I need to make sure they realize it is ok to enjoy splurge foods in moderations and to make sure they have a healthy mind set on the subject. It is a tough subject for sure. As I learn more about eating disorders I begin to wonder if I myself have my own issues and then I struggle with how a father is to teach his daughters about healthy eating habits when I myself struggle. Tough subject for sure but thanks for sharing your story.

Young girls are the most likely to develop an deating disorder in their lifetime than anyone else. That is because of what society has bred into adolescent women and the standards of beauty that the media imposes on today's youth. A woman's self worth nowadays is measured by how pretty she is, which places tremendous pressure on girls to stay thin. A distorted body image can make women have a false preception of what they truly look like. That is when they resort to starvation diets, purging themsleves or even laxative abuse.

In order to alleviate the possibility of your daughters developing eating disorders, you need to make them feel good about themselves regardless of whether you think they have a weight issue or not. An eating disorder stems from a lack of self confidence. If a young woman is happy about her body, gets the right support system at home, is properly educated on the benefits of healthy eating habits, and is encourged to indulge every now and then, that would significantly minimize the possibility of her ever resorting to unhealthy means to look good. But, unfortunately, there is only so much you can do. Our kids spend a lot of time around other kids who usually do a fantastic job at rattling their confidence. Peer pressure and the need to "fit in" can be another contributing factor to the development of unhealthy habits. All we can do as dependable adults and concerned parents is instill a strong value system and sense of individuality in our kids and hope that they develop a better appreciation for who they are as people.

Now, you being aware that you have a rather unhealthy approach to food, does not necessarily mean you will rub off on your kids. Keep your behavior in check when they are around. In fact, you can do your girls a lot of good by explaining the benefits of healthy eating habits to them. Just try and avoid expressing any guilty feelings associated with food or talking about food in a negative context in an attempt to educate them. Remember that kids are perceptive even at a ripe age, and very good at observing our behaviors and then trying to emulate them. They can grow into very well adjusted women regardless of your struggles. This is not hereditary so you Can do something about it. Encrouage them to splurge. Take them out for icecream after training every once in a while.

And to answer your questions, my parents had no idea I was developing issues with food. I did not show any severe symptoms until my late teens when I spent months without food. Starvation has you running on pure adrenaline, and I was going strong before I collapsed. It is very easy to spot the development of unhealthy eating regimens. It certainly does not pop up overnight. But then again, my upbringing was different than most in addition to my coming from a culture that favored skinny women. Funny thing is, I always had very big legs and so my father had me sprint up hills daily. Unfortunately for him, my legs got even bigger.

Until I decided to give my father the bird and just appreciate the person I was for a change. So I decided to use my physical attributes to my benefit rather than think of it as a curse, which is what I was raised to believe. Today, I have made something out of myself that I can be proud of and look exactly the way I want to look. I am certainly not perfect by any means and will always be a work in progress, but I have earned my right to feel good about what I have accomplished. Many people still do not approve of my choices, but I've learned that the only person I needed to worry about pleasing was number one..and that is ME.

I also have not spoken to my father in ten years.

Just believe in yourself and embrace a world of endless possibilities...

[chucksm00th]

I think it can go either way w/ regards to male or female having disorders. I do feel it ultimately depends on the individual as to whether they end up having an eating disorder.

I can definetely say after competing i was a pig on my cheat meals and made myself sick every week to the point where it could be considered binge eating, but after i started my off season program the food cravings were gone becasue i was so dam full from eating.

With regards to what gman said about people saying hes crazy, i hear that shit all the time from friends and family because i carry a cooler around whereever i go so i get all my meals in whether its off seaosn or pre-contest. It may be considered obsessed but my goal is to be my best i can be and i cannot achieve that by slacking and not eating.

As to BB creating disorders, i know its possible, but again thats due to the individual not becasue of the sport or lifestyle. people become obsessed w/ food and body image and it creates body dismorphia. Im 10% in my off season but i feel like a fat slob becasue i was 3% on stage. My gf competes also and she deals w/ the same thing, she feels shes fat cause she doesnt have her abs, but shes leaner than most everybody.

[Sistersteel]

I think it can go either way w/ regards to male or female having disorders. I do feel it ultimately depends on the individual as to whether they end up having an eating disorder.

I can definetely say after competing i was a pig on my cheat meals and made myself sick every week to the point where it could be considered binge eating, but after i started my off season program the food cravings were gone becasue i was so dam full from eating.

With regards to what gman said about people saying hes crazy, i hear that shit all the time from friends and family because i carry a cooler around whereever i go so i get all my meals in whether its off seaosn or pre-contest. It may be considered obsessed but my goal is to be my best i can be and i cannot achieve that by slacking and not eating.

As to BB creating disorders, i know its possible, but again thats due to the individual not becasue of the sport or lifestyle. people become obsessed w/ food and body image and it creates body dismorphia. Im 10% in my off season but i feel like a fat slob becasue i was 3% on stage. My gf competes also and she deals w/ the same thing, she feels shes fat cause she doesnt have her abs, but shes leaner than most everybody.

There is no question that almost anyone can develop an eating disorder, but it certainly is far more prevalent among women.

Another thing I would like to mention is that it seems like you guys are consistently confusing the rituals of the bodybuilding lifestyle with having a psychological problem. Pigging out after a contest is what the vast majority of bodybuilders do, along with having to eat certain foods at certain times on a daily basis. That is what the bodybuilding lifestyle entails. That has nothing to do with actually having a mental health issue.

We are not saying the bodybuilding lifestyle results in unhealthy habits. We are saying that many people with preexisting mental issues, behavioral problems or obsessive compulsive tendancies are attracted to the bodybuilding lifestyle. The doctrine of the sport demands perfect adherence to a certain set of principles and rituals with little to no room for error.

I am not sure if you can keep an open mind about this and accept constructive criticism which is nothing more than my personal observation on this matter, but if you think you are "fat" at 10% and your girlfriend has similar issues because she cannot see her abs, then you both are the perfect example of how competitive bodybuilding can alter your perception of what is deemed as an acceptable and healthy offseason weight.

[Frosty]

About females with eating disorders....women seem to have the worst perception of diet and get the worst eating habits in the world. I'm constantly amazed at the females at work and how fucking stupid their eating habits are and perception of diet is. If a young girl is taught to eat more food more frequently in the form of meats and veggies and such, she'll go a long way to establishing a life long realistic perception of food, diet, and make it easy for her to look good without starving herself and eating the "M&M Diet" or "Cookie Diet." Women are notorious for undereating protein, so teaching them early that protein is the main thing a meal is centered around is important.

[Sistersteel]

About females with eating disorders....women seem to have the worst perception of diet and get the worst eating habits in the world. I'm constantly amazed at the females at work and how fucking stupid their eating habits are and perception of diet is. If a young girl is taught to eat more food more frequently in the form of meats and veggies and such, she'll go a long way to establishing a life long realistic perception of food, diet, and make it easy for her to look good without starving herself and eating the "M&M Diet" or "Cookie Diet." Women are notorious for undereating protein, so teaching them early that protein is the main thing a meal is centered around is important.


Very true. Good post!

[Frosty]

Very true. Good post!


I see women at work eating these Nutrasystem foods and desserts and practically starving themselves....I don't get why they won't just eat some meat and maybe some fruits and veggies and actually eat. They all think they need to starve to look good...it's insane.

One woman I gave the Palumbo Diet to said "well I added carbs because someone said I'll mess up my hormones without any." Doh! Right, because normalizing insulin and inflammation will mess you up. Oh yeah, and the higher androgens from high insulin is good, too....this coming from a woman that I know for a fact has abnormal hormone levels. But what can you do? These women think chicken breasts and macadamia nuts with some veggies is unhealthy, but eating Nutrasystem desserts is good for you and will get you in shape.... :confused:

[Sistersteel]

I see women at work eating these Nutrasystem foods and desserts and practically starving themselves....I don't get why they won't just eat some meat and maybe some fruits and veggies and actually eat. They all think they need to starve to look good...it's insane.

One woman I gave the Palumbo Diet to said "well I added carbs because someone said I'll mess up my hormones without any." Doh! Right, because normalizing insulin and inflammation will mess you up. Oh yeah, and the higher androgens from high insulin is good, too....this coming from a woman that I know for a fact has abnormal hormone levels. But what can you do? These women think chicken breasts and macadamia nuts with some veggies is unhealthy, but eating Nutrasystem desserts is good for you and will get you in shape.... :confused:

lol. That is very funny and sadly enough, very true.
But that is the classical description of the population at large. Most people have zero knowledge on how and what to eat.

Nutrasystems desserts eh? lol

[Frosty]

I remember one girl I helped. She was about 135 lbs and 5'4, so mildly overweight, but her body fat indicated obesity. I had her keep a journal and she did. She was eating like 800 calories a day. I had her start to increase her calories up to 1600 eating meats and veggies, eating more often, and doing some exercise. She dropped down to 106 so quickly doctors were cautioning her against using laxatives and diuretics. Her parents got worried.... lol

[Gerb]

Young girls are the most likely to develop an deating disorder in their lifetime than anyone else. That is because of what society has bred into adolescent women and the standards of beauty that the media imposes on today's youth. A woman's self worth nowadays is measured by how pretty she is, which places tremendous pressure on girls to stay thin. A distorted body image can make women have a false preception of what they truly look like. That is when they resort to starvation diets, purging themsleves or even laxative abuse.

In order to alleviate the possibility of your daughters developing eating disorders, you need to make them feel good about themselves regardless of whether you think they have a weight issue or not. An eating disorder stems from a lack of self confidence. If a young woman is happy about her body, gets the right support system at home, is properly educated on the benefits of healthy eating habits, and is encourged to indulge every now and then, that would significantly minimize the possibility of her ever resorting to unhealthy means to look good. But, unfortunately, there is only so much you can do. Our kids spend a lot of time around other kids who usually do a fantastic job at rattling their confidence. Peer pressure and the need to "fit in" can be another contributing factor to the development of unhealthy habits. All we can do as dependable adults and concerned parents is instill a strong value system and sense of individuality in our kids and hope that they develop a better appreciation for who they are as people.

Now, you being aware that you have a rather unhealthy approach to food, does not necessarily mean you will rub off on your kids. Keep your behavior in check when they are around. In fact, you can do your girls a lot of good by explaining the benefits of healthy eating habits to them. Just try and avoid expressing any guilty feelings associated with food or talking about food in a negative context in an attempt to educate them. Remember that kids are perceptive even at a ripe age, and very good at observing our behaviors and then trying to emulate them. They can grow into very well adjusted women regardless of your struggles. This is not hereditary so you Can do something about it. Encrouage them to splurge. Take them out for icecream after training every once in a while.

And to answer your questions, my parents had no idea I was developing issues with food. I did not show any severe symptoms until my late teens when I spent months without food. Starvation has you running on pure adrenaline, and I was going strong before I collapsed. It is very easy to spot the development of unhealthy eating regimens. It certainly does not pop up overnight. But then again, my upbringing was different than most in addition to my coming from a culture that favored skinny women. Funny thing is, I always had very big legs and so my father had me sprint up hills daily. Unfortunately for him, my legs got even bigger.

Until I decided to give my father the bird and just appreciate the person I was for a change. So I decided to use my physical attributes to my benefit rather than think of it as a curse, which is what I was raised to believe. Today, I have made something out of myself that I can be proud of and look exactly the way I want to look. I am certainly not perfect by any means and will always be a work in progress, but I have earned my right to feel good about what I have accomplished. Many people still do not approve of my choices, but I've learned that the only person I needed to worry about pleasing was number one..and that is ME.

I also have not spoken to my father in ten years.

Just believe in yourself and embrace a world of endless possibilities...


Thanks for the reply. Good info. I'll certainly take these things into consideration.

And yeah, (in regards to your later posts), I get that there is a huge difference between a mental disorder and being very disciplined about living the lifestyle. I only commented about my own issues because you questioned in the beginning about male vs female and I was throughing out my thoughts on food as a male as well as a concerned Dad.

[Sistersteel]

Thanks for the reply. Good info. I'll certainly take these things into consideration.

And yeah, (in regards to your later posts), I get that there is a huge difference between a mental disorder and being very disciplined about living the lifestyle. I only commented about my own issues because you questioned in the beginning about male vs female and I was throughing out my thoughts on food as a male as well as a concerned Dad.

Hey, I am just putting random thoughts out there too :)
Makes for some good debates. My advice and recommendations are strictly based on experience and personal observation. :)

[Sistersteel]

I remember one girl I helped. She was about 135 lbs and 5'4, so mildly overweight, but her body fat indicated obesity. I had her keep a journal and she did. She was eating like 800 calories a day. I had her start to increase her calories up to 1600 eating meats and veggies, eating more often, and doing some exercise. She dropped down to 106 so quickly doctors were cautioning her against using laxatives and diuretics. Her parents got worried.... lol


The power of Nutrasystems dammit! lol

[sassy69]

I'm 43 yrs old & I've gone through a lifetime of coming to understand myself & my relationship with food. I'm not a particularly obsessive person, and absolutely not a Type A personality. I grew up w/ two younger brothers who could eat everything in sight & have no weight issues. As a result, I developed a habit of waiting until everyone went to bed before I'd go sneak food so I wouldnt' get the helpful guilt trip that usually came w/ it, i.e. "Do you really need to eat that...?" In fact I got real good at sneaking into the kitchen after 10 pm to get whatever the hell I wanted. I was so good at it, I did that all the way thru college. Any time there was someone there to witness me eating, I'd go the sneak route. And then I'd hate myself because I was still carrying the extra weight. And mom didn't help when she would say "but you're a big girl"... uh thx mom. I do note that I embrace that I now I am a decently big girl and damn proud of my hard-earned "big".

I was always the one who was 10 lb heavier than all my friends, and they grew boobs & I didn't. I'm shy as hell by nature and never felt like I fit in anywhere. It took me moving 1500 miles away from anyone I knew to even feel remotely at ease w/ myself. It took me until I was 25 or so when I finally just decided I was done worrying about what other people thought of me. VERY liberating. The sad thing was, this whole time I was training, but had never figured out the diet. I still generally ate clean but had my binges. I was definitely a stress eater.

When I did my first show in 2000, at the age of 35, I got a real dose of what "the fitness diet" is all about. I hate to think just how big my long distance bills were to my mom during that 16 week prep. The most stressful time I ever went thru. And my poor mom. She gets upset just thinking about me dieting. To this day my mom will not discuss diet w/ me and I basically don't bother telling anyone in my family that I'm competing until after the show is over. My second show was a complete disaster due primarily to a shitty trainer who let me go on stage at 12% bf, which is FAT for a BB competitor. The judges basically invited me off the stage for being the fattest one there. A good trainer would've not even let me go on stage. I learned A LOT after that experience, and it took me a good 6 months to dump the 30 lb I gained from overtraining and the mindfuck of it all. And let's not forget the post-show rebound.. that was its own little learning experience as well....

Since 2005 when I did my 3rd show, I've taken so much more responsibility for my weight, my eating habits and my behavior when it comes to all of that. I've arrived at some very simple truths that have helped me along so much better these days:

You either do it or you don't.
- This means if you want to make a dramatic change in your physique, you gotta stick to it. It has to be consistent, persistent and honest. For me I need diet, training and cardio, and that's my reality. Anything less and I can't expect to make changes.

I know how to make changes.
- After seeing how amazing the whole competition prep & diet process is, I know how to make my body respond and I'm not a victim of my genetics or any of this other shit that cripples people trying to get control of their bodies & their health.

I own my body & my weight.
- If I do feel like I want to relax my friggen diet & junk a little, I totally accept the results. I don't cry about "how fat I am" or any of that. I dont' make my life miserable because I feel like I can't eat something. If I want it, I'll eat it. But generally, going back to the first rule above, "you either do it or you don't". If I'm serious about my goals, there's no time to spend screwing around wasting calories on crap food that I'm only going to regret eating when its over. And, as many of us find once we clean up our diets, nothing makes u feel shittier to try to digest than junk food. Its just not even fun anymore. And if I do want something, I'll eat it and then get back on the wagon because I know how to change my body when I'm ready (see 2nd rule above).

If you don't like it, don't fuckin' look at it.
- This little pearl of wisdom came when I gave myself permission to stop worrying about what I thought other people thought of me. It means if I'm uncomfortable, I can do something about it & its my problem, but I'm certainly not going to let other people make me feel bad about it. And likewise, if I feel a comment about someone else coming on, I don't say it because its sort of rude to do that and its the same sort of judgement I spent most of my life trying to deal with. Again, very liberating and lets you not create more worry about stuff that isn't realy that important.
I remove the associations with food - i.e. I don't make food a reward.
- This was a huge one for me, particularly in the scenario of post-show binging. Don't we all spend our whole 16 week prep fantasizing about what we're going to eat as soon as the show is over? Well, that approach is exactly what I did for my first show, and by a sequence of stupid events, I actually didn't even get to have that big post-show party in Ybor City (Tampa) that my trainers & I had been discussing for 16 weeks. The whole thing fell apart & I wanted to push my trainer out of my car on the drive back to Ft. Lauderdale after that weekend. Oh yea, I also got dumped by my boyfriend on the drive back. So yea... perfect time for stress eating. I stopped at the grocery store once I got home, and walked around the whole store, buying every type of junk food I ever wanted to try. And I spent the next 6 days eating it. I blew up 18 lb and felt miserable. So these days, I set as my "expectation" for post show, as "having a drink w/ my friends who supported me during my prep & at my show". That's it. Its good enough to be with friends after the whole thing. No where in the whole thought is there any food. THAT is incredibly liberating.

Its is actually pretty simple. I've stripped down my "tastes" - I much prefer clean food to heavy shitty food. I actually barely drink at all anymore. I'm so much less interested in food and it generally has no assocations that lead me to junking unless I just reall want to. SUre I still slip or will start eating stuff out of boredom, but generally I still acknowledge it, own it and then get back on the wagon instead of adding to the pile w/ guilt trip as well.

Its taken me nearly 40 yrs to figure all that out. But I'm very much at peace with it now. There's very little any competition diet can scare me about and I generally will eat if I feel like I have to eat (ie. if I'm that depleted). The secret has basically been to remove the associations with food (i.e. stress --> I'll hit the gym before I'll hit the Ben & Jerry's) and expectations about food (i.e. food as reward). And the most fundamental truth is that you either do it or you don't. If you do anything less than "do it", you'll get less than the result you wanted. Pretty simple. No mind fucks, no agonizing over how bad I want that friggen M&M and all that. Remove it as an issue, and its not an issue.

Food: Friend or Foe? Naw, just fuel at feeding time.

[chucksm00th]

There is no question that almost anyone can develop an eating disorder, but it certainly is far more prevalent among women.

Another thing I would like to mention is that it seems like you guys are consistently confusing the rituals of the bodybuilding lifestyle with having a psychological problem. Pigging out after a contest is what the vast majority of bodybuilders do, along with having to eat certain foods at certain times on a daily basis. That is what the bodybuilding lifestyle entails. That has nothing to do with actually having a mental health issue.

We are not saying the bodybuilding lifestyle results in unhealthy habits. We are saying that many people with preexisting mental issues, behavioral problems or obsessive compulsive tendancies are attracted to the bodybuilding lifestyle. The doctrine of the sport demands perfect adherence to a certain set of principles and rituals with little to no room for error.

I am not sure if you can keep an open mind about this and accept constructive criticism which is nothing more than my personal observation on this matter, but if you think you are "fat" at 10% and your girlfriend has similar issues because she cannot see her abs, then you both are the perfect example of how competitive bodybuilding can alter your perception of what is deemed as an acceptable and healthy offseason weight.

your absolutely right. It totally fucks with your head and what you percieve is fat/lean .

[Sistersteel]

I own my body & my weight.
- If I do feel like I want to relax my friggen diet & junk a little, I totally accept the results. I don't cry about "how fat I am" or any of that. I dont' make my life miserable because I feel like I can't eat something. If I want it, I'll eat it.

Great post sassy!
Everyone should develop their own comping skills. I'm glad to hear you are at peace with the issue.

I personally think comp diets should always include refeeds. If that means you have to start dieting 25 weeks out and just eliminate the cheats 2 weeks out from a show, then do that. Can you imagine how much easier it will for competitors NOT to go nuts and avoid the crazy post comp binges?
That and staying semi lean year round is another way to make life a whole lot easier.

[sassy69]

Great post sassy!
Everyone should develop their own comping skills. I'm glad to hear you are at peace with the issue.

I personally think comp diets should always include refeeds. If that means you have to start dieting 25 weeks out and just eliminate the cheats 2 weeks out from a show, then do that. Can you imagine how much easier it will for competitors NOT to go nuts and avoid the crazy post comp binges?
That and staying semi lean year round is another way to make life a whole lot easier.

That is one of my biggest goals .. I think its very easy to set a one-time goal and go after it - like a competition prep, but its much harder to establish a lifestyle that establishes a "life change" in how you "are" normally. I find if I do nothing special, my body will settle in around 163 lb and probably 23% bf. I will always train w/ the same intensity and my diet is generally the same. Cardio is the key for me & I don't generally do it unless i have to. I'd like to move that 'set point' down a little and I think my body will be happier in general.

But, when I look back at my life over the last 10 yrs, particularly since I've started competing. My idea of a binge is MUCH larger than it was pre-competition. It blows my mind how much food I can pound in one sitting. I can also map my 'fat' years exactly to when I had professional upheavel - particularly in the post-internet bust years when I moved across 4 different states in 5 yrs , probably held 7-8 different jobs trying to find a stable place to restart my life. I'm definitely getting better at managing that, but several times I blew up to near 180-190 and just lost control of myself in general. Food, motivation, give-a-shitness about life in general. Then I'll start to get sick of feeling like shit, suck it up, and go hit the gym. At least in the gym I can find some strucuture and motivation. And from there I can restart things again.

Funny, if anything in my life is considered an addiction, I'd say the gym is before food. But its a good one that is always there to give me a basic foundation for my day and my life to move forward. The rest I've just learned better how to manage. I know some people find competition may actually lead them into eating disorders, but maybe its because I'm not an addictive personality at all, and I've actually learned more about myself and my fundamental behaviors from competition, than from any other thing in my life.

[tammyp]

i was an overweight ugly duckling as a kid, not fat, but chubby and dorky with crazy curly hair and braces.mom would pick me up from school and we would go get french fries or an ice cream soda. i felt better.

i i have been dieting all my life and started training in HS to lose weight. i lost 25 lbs my freshman year...and that is where it started. i got a boyfriend, cute clothes and cool friends. i also ate a yogurt and a granola bar a day. that was it.

i soon learned..i could eat anything i wanted, and just could get rid of it. i was 15 when i 1st purged. a controlling, older, verbally abusive and cheating boyfriend didnt help my self esteem any. my mom discovered me, and i just said i would stop, and that was the end. i was never a huge drinker at parties (cals you know) but did my share of rec drugs to not feel left out of hte game.

fast forward..im 38 and i am still not perfect. stress and depression trigger me, so i try to avoid both....ya right! i dont cheat alot on my diet, and stay strict off season due to the fact that a cheat leads to a huge binge and sometimes soemthing that i cant shake for days.

has competing hurt or helped? i think it hurt...it made me even more food obsessed, with weighing and measuring. but i push through it...i love bbing too much to let it win.

and that is my story....

[Sistersteel]

i was an overweight ugly duckling as a kid, not fat, but chubby and dorky with crazy curly hair and braces.mom would pick me up from school and we would go get french fries or an ice cream soda. i felt better.

i i have been dieting all my life and started training in HS to lose weight. i lost 25 lbs my freshman year...and that is where it started. i got a boyfriend, cute clothes and cool friends. i also ate a yogurt and a granola bar a day. that was it.

i soon learned..i could eat anything i wanted, and just could get rid of it. i was 15 when i 1st purged. a controlling, older, verbally abusive and cheating boyfriend didnt help my self esteem any. my mom discovered me, and i just said i would stop, and that was the end. i was never a huge drinker at parties (cals you know) but did my share of rec drugs to not feel left out of hte game.

fast forward..im 38 and i am still not perfect. stress and depression trigger me, so i try to avoid both....ya right! i dont cheat alot on my diet, and stay strict off season due to the fact that a cheat leads to a huge binge and sometimes soemthing that i cant shake for days.

has competing hurt or helped? i think it hurt...it made me even more food obsessed, with weighing and measuring. but i push through it...i love bbing too much to let it win.

and that is my story....

Tammyp
It certainly takes a lot of courage to admit to our shortcomings. Thank you for that honest post. I hope this will encourage others with similar struggles to share as you did.

Respect,

SS

[gman]

this is a serious question and not meant to make light of anyone else:

I have always loved to eat a lot, I remember eating 4-5 hamburgers at cookouts as a 9 year old. Large Pizza Hut pizzas at age 12, etc.

Does there have to be an underlying psychological reason for overeating, or can it just be because the food tastes good, and it is fun to eat?

[Sistersteel]

this is a serious question and not meant to make light of anyone else:

I have always loved to eat a lot, I remember eating 4-5 hamburgers at cookouts as a 9 year old. Large Pizza Hut pizzas at age 12, etc.

Does there have to be an underlying psychological reason for overeating, or can it just be because the food tastes good, and it is fun to eat?

My darling gman,
You seem like an educated, well versed individual. But some of your posts lead me to believe that you have little to no understanding of the gravity of a clinically diagnosed eating disorder and the havoc it can wreak on the lives of those who suffer from it.

Having an Eating Disorder is much more than just being on a diet or being anal about weighing your food, enjoying 4 large pizzas at one sitting or overeating as a child. An Eating Disorder is a psychiatric illness that permeates all aspects of each sufferer's life. It is a very complex life-changing medical condition caused by a variety of emotional factors and influences, involving neurobiological, psychological, and sociological components. Eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of any mental illness and significant lifestyle modification along with extensive psychotherapy is necessary in order for healing to occur.

A vast majority of people in this world find comfort in food. That is why food is used very often as a means to self medicate. In most situations, that can result in overeating as a way of dealing with stress, anxiety, boredom, loneliness or unhappiness. Bad eating habits start at home and, unfortunately, some people just never grow out of them. Certainly not implying here that you had bad eating habits as a child, I am simply trying to create an analogy to help get my point across better.

Be thankful that you do not have to go through life having to struggle daily with a condition that can ultimately ruin you and rob you of everything that you love.

Respect,

SS

[gman]

That's what I meant by saying no offense. I struggle every day with food, and ate like shit until I was 44, believe me, I am not making light of it.

I got up to 245 mostly fat pounds on a 5'8" frame, and was the same age as my dad when he died of heart problems, and it woke my ass up.

I was just curious as to whether my eating problems had to have a deep root, or whether I just had a problem saying no to food.

I tend to think there must be something that my parents did when I was a child to enforce me eating like there was no tomorrow.

I apologize to everyone who reads this thread, and who suffers much more severe problems with food than I for sounding so flippant before. I have a problem with food myself. I think the spectrum of eating disorders is pretty wide, similar to autism, and my problem is on the mild end of the spectrum.

BTW my sister suffered from bulimia, and we have a lot of mental illness in my family, so I am not a perfect person trying to make light of anything. My sis, dad and one of my son's are bipolar. Shit, I would trade places with my son any day of the week, he doesn't deserve the genes he got from me, and I escaped the problem. That is so unfair.

[Sistersteel]

That's what I meant by saying no offense. I struggle every day with food, and ate like shit until I was 44, believe me, I am not making light of it.

I got up to 245 mostly fat pounds on a 5'8" frame, and was the same age as my dad when he died of heart problems, and it woke my ass up.

I was just curious as to whether my eating problems had to have a deep root, or whether I just had a problem saying no to food.

I tend to think there must be something that my parents did when I was a child to enforce me eating like there was no tomorrow.

I apologize to everyone who reads this thread, and who suffers much more severe problems with food than I for sounding so flippant before. I have a problem with food myself. I think the spectrum of eating disorders is pretty wide, similar to autism, and my problem is on the mild end of the spectrum

No offense taken. On the contrary, I think you bring perspective to these forums and your honesty is welcome and appreciated always. You make these debates interesting so I hope you continue to contribute as you have. Even if your struggles were mild to nonexistent, you are a part of this community of good people. You are family. I enjoy your posts so please keep them coming.

SS

[gman]

Thanks, SS! I enjoy learning, and other people's problems make me realize how fortunate and blessed I am...

BTW I edited my post a little bit, don't know if you saw the last bit I added.

I really am glad to know you guys and I learn a lot every day from you.

[Sistersteel]

Thanks, SS! I enjoy learning, and other people's problems make me realize how fortunate and blessed I am...

BTW I edited my post a little bit, don't know if you saw the last bit I added.

I really am glad to know you guys and I learn a lot every day from you.


It is a learning experiences for everyone. We all bring a unique outlook to these forums. Everyone who shares their perspective is indirectly helping someone out there understand themselves better. That is how we grow stronger as a community.

[Skeptic]

It's some kind of disorder, however, to feel the need to sabotage someone who is trying to clean up their act and get leaner.

Key word: sabotage. This is just plain meddling. Grrrrrrrrr.

However, before we get tooooo carried away on our self absorbed bubble we need to define "leaner". The current societal obsession with males having a "six pack" has nothing at all to do with either general health or athletic performance.

But then, the audience for this is people who regularly shave their entire bodies so perhaps no one cares about general health or athletic performance and it's all aboot looks. ;-)

[Sistersteel]

Key word: sabotage. This is just plain meddling. Grrrrrrrrr.

However, before we get tooooo carried away on our self absorbed bubble we need to define "leaner". The current societal obsession with males having a "six pack" has nothing at all to do with either general health or athletic performance.

But then, the audience for this is people who regularly shave their entire bodies so perhaps no one cares about general health or athletic performance and it's all aboot looks. ;-)


This might stray from the initial topic but here is just an observation of mine. Most people with little to no knowledge on athletics, fitness or nutrition will associate a six pack with good health. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people say that bodybuilders are the healthiest of athletes. Those very same people think long distance runners look like concentration camp victims. People tend to forget that bodybuilding has nothing to do with athletic performance or health. We might have what appear to be "healthy habits" but we are notorious for pushing even that to an extreme. It is a sport of aesthetics. Anyone with relatively low bodyfat will have visible abs, that does mean they are the embodiment of health. They could be dying of aids. (That example was a bit extreme but it proves my point).

[gman]

My first goal is to get to 15-18% bf which is the healthy range for my age, and to get my blood pressure down to 120/80

sub 10% would be nice, but you have to take small steps.

[Sistersteel]

My first goal is to get to 15-18% bf which is the healthy range for my age, and to get my blood pressure down to 120/80

sub 10% would be nice, but you have to take small steps.

One day at a time my friend :)

[Skeptic]

This might stray from the initial topic but here is just an observation of mine. Most people with little to no knowledge on athletics, fitness or nutrition will associate a six pack with good health. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people say that bodybuilders are the healthiest of athletes. Those very same people think long distance runners look like concentration camp victims. People tend to forget that bodybuilding has nothing to do with athletic performance or health. We might have what appear to be "healthy habits" but we are notorious for pushing even that to an extreme. It is a sport of aesthetics. Anyone with relatively low bodyfat will have visible abs, that does mean they are the embodiment of health. They could be dying of aids. (That example was a bit extreme but it proves my point).

I'm really starting to warm up to this Sistersteel. ;-)

[Angela123]

For a while I was petrified of this thread. Weird, I know. For those who do not suffer from ED or food isses, it may see odd. I was scared to open this thread and get angered by comments made by posters, who clearly do not suffer the way people with EDs and food issues suffer. I was scared to look because this is a topic too close to my heart. I actually just spent 30 minutes typing up a mini novel to post on here and then I deleted it. I don't know if I am ready to post my innermost thoughts and actions when it comes to food and my body. Many people on here know of my lock box, know of my binges and depression bouts, but there is lots more. Stuff that goes deeper. And it seems, the last couple months, i have gotten worse. Some days it is so hard.

So, while I think I will not post my whole story...yet. Because I would like to post, like Sassy and Tammy did. It helps other sufferers...but I'm just not ready yet. I will say that I am trying not to be angered by some comments. I have to remember, it is not ignorance but just lack of knowledge and understanding. Even my own family and SO do not understand me and they see/live/communicate with me on a daily basis. So, I should not expect normal people to try to relate to those of us who suffer from ED and food issues.

Gman...I will say...I was angered by your comment when I read it this morning. I seriously just sat at my desk and stared at it. Some of your posts...it just seems to me...it is as if you are looking to have an ED or food issue. My dear man, why on earth would you try to have one. Do I think having 5 hamburgers when you were 9 makes you a compulsive binge eater. No, I personally do not. Actually, 4-5 hamburgers is nothing. That is a small appetizer to a binge. Add anywhere from 3-6 thousand more calories to those 4-5 hamburgers, eat those 3-6000 cals in a time frame of 30-60 minutes...then you have a binge similar to what a compuslive binge eater has. Now, after the binge, put yourself in bed for a few days, so depressed it physically hurts to get out of bed, so depressed you just keep making urself sleep, bc you cannot handle being awake with all your thoughts about body image and food racing around in your head, dont shower for a few days bc no way in hell would you wash yourself, having to feel your ugly, fat body (even tho you are not fat), brush your teeth in the dark, bc you dont want to stare at ur face in the mirror (bc it is bloated from the binge and you are too embarrassed and disgusted by yourself for eating that much), actually just go through those days without ever looking in the mirror, bc even though you are wearing baggy clothes (bc, there would be no way, you'd wear regular fitting clothes that actually form to your body) you still cant stand to stare at your face or body. oh yah..also..get fired from your job as well. bc you just are too depressed from the binge and feeling fat that you cant get out of bed and seriously do not care about anything. so you dont bother to show up to work for a week. all u have to do is call in and say you are sick, but nope, you are too depressed to even call in. so u get fired. whatever.

that my dear..is a glimpse...a tiny glimpse of what happens after a binge. did all that happen after you ate your 4-5 hamburgers? if it did and it still does to this day...then i apologize and you do have problem.

how do i know that it is a glimpse...bc that is small part of my story. i am not like that everyday. actually on my good days, i am perfectly normal and happy. do i binge every day or eat odd foods every day...no. but i have bad episodes and those episodes trigger that horrible depression and i hate i feel towards my body and mind. lately tho, i have not been binging but have been eating very weird food.

i had to throw away powdered coffee creamer, flour and sugar away last week. bc i was binging on it. yep...someone who has issues with food...no food is off limits. i was pouring the whole container of powdered vanilla coffee creamer in a bowl, adding some water and eating it. the same with flour and sugar. you want to feel like a weak minded loser. try feeling how i felt last week when i threw that stuff away. pathetic. i never thought id have to throw away coffee creamer. u hear of women having to throw away chocolate or cookies. not coffee creamer. flour/sugar paste is something ive binged on many times, so that doesnt shock me. but the coffee creamer. yah, that one hurt when i had to throw that away. and its funny...i still have the willpower to compete. but in order for me to compete, no food is in the house when my roommate is gone and when she is here, all food is locked up in her room and she has her own fridge in her room. but that is normal...many competitors do that.

have i ever been fat. nope. never, far from it. had anorexia as a teen. why i felt my 115 pound body needed to get down to 85 lbs... i still cant give you an answer. been suffering from my body image and food issues ever since. i am now 26. competing had made it worse. this year has been the absolute worse. my food phobias, compulsive binge eating episodes and depression have never been worse.

i have faith and hope my dr will help me get over this. and one day, i will be able to live with others and their food. bc right now, all bad food is locked up from me or kept in a seporate fridge, in my roommate's bedroom. yes even flour and sugar and other random foods are kept there...bc ill eat cups and cups worth of sugar at a time...just eat it like i was eating cereal. i do hope i will also get rid of the negative body thoughts. bc not only do i have to get over the binging but also get over the negative body image. one thing at a time tho...i have confidence my dr will help me.

just remember, binging and ED are not all about wanting to be thinner or always being hungry...there are deeper issues behind it.

and im not a product of my environment. my parents never forced me to diet bc i was always very thin and small. i didnt have a mother who was a crazy diet/workout queen. my mother made dinners every night, packed me a lunch every day and i ate a breakfast. all very balanced and healthy. i was not a ballerina, gymnast or dancer.

i guess i still ended up writing a lot, even though i didnt touch on the serious and deep issues that go along with ED or food problems. and i still really didnt tell my story but i feel better that i spoke out...and for those who actually take the time to read it...i thank you.

[gman]

Ondrea, I am so sorry to have offended anyone. I had no idea of the depth of pain and depression people with real ED's go through.

I have depression pretty bad, but nothing anywhere near what you guys suffer.

Please accept my apologies, and I will do my best to sit back and learn by reading and keep my big mouth shut!

[Angela123]

Ondrea, I am so sorry to have offended anyone. I had no idea of the depth of pain and depression people with real ED's go through.

I have depression pretty bad, but nothing anywhere near what you guys suffer.

Please accept my apologies, and I will do my best to sit back and learn by reading and keep my big mouth shut!


thank you for your apology and understanding. like i said, i was pretty upset but then i told myself not to be too angered or to take it out on you. bc...unless you suffer from it, you wont get it. but that goes along with any mental illness.


and im not saying ED depression is any worse than depression that other people go through. it isnt.

and this isnt pointed towards you, but i forgot to elaborate. binging isnt about being hungry. i know some people are probably thinking, "stop being a fucking pig and just stop eating, its your own damn fault." its hard to explain, but its not about that. that is why i have a soft spot for over weight/obese people who say it is hard to stop eating. not saying all of them suffer from compulsive binging, but im sure many do.

[gman]

I had wondered about binge eaters and whether it was really hunger. Thanks for educating me.

[Sistersteel]

Hats off to you, Ondrea, for summoning the courage to share your story. That was heartfelt and very expressive, to say the least. These issues have a very obvious detrimental impact on your life and your mental wellbeing. Thank you for shedding light on these sensitive issues for the less educated among us. Your wounded heart oozes pain and sorrow, yet your beautiful soul radiates hope and optimism.

I have the utmost respect for the courage you've displayed in this post. Though you might be feeling vulnerable and exposed right now, rest assured you are not alone in your struggles.

Persevere and stay strong.

SS

[Frosty]

thank you for your apology and understanding. like i said, i was pretty upset but then i told myself not to be too angered or to take it out on you. bc...unless you suffer from it, you wont get it. but that goes along with any mental illness.


and im not saying ED depression is any worse than depression that other people go through. it isnt.

and this isnt pointed towards you, but i forgot to elaborate. binging isnt about being hungry. i know some people are probably thinking, "stop being a fucking pig and just stop eating, its your own damn fault." its hard to explain, but its not about that. that is why i have a soft spot for over weight/obese people who say it is hard to stop eating. not saying all of them suffer from compulsive binging, but im sure many do.

I know what you mean about the soft spot for fat people. My reason is a bit different, though. My little brother has been pretty fat and dorky and out of shape for years now but he's my little bro and I love him. Whenever I see fat people and sometimes I poke fun or others poke fun, i stop and think "man, if this guy were my little brother, how would I feel with people saying shit like that?" and it always makes me feel really bad (in fact just writing this brought a tear to my eye).

But Ondrea, have you ever heard of EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique)? It's something Joseph Mercola mentioned on his website years ago and for years I thought it was goofy BS. However it's played a part in me changing thinking and I still use it for things. I tend to worry about the future and what might happen, and it really helps reduce those fears (one benefit is better sleep for me). I know I even experimented on a girlfriend with a terrible spider phobia. We didn't EFT for long and I had a spider in a container....by the end I actually got her to reach in and touch it! Anyway if you go to www.mercola.com and search for EFT you can check it out and judge for yourself. There are free online tutorials so you can get almost all the info totally free, so at least you wouldn't risk money. Only suggesting it because I've seen it help and it's pretty easy and free. Just a thought :) If you are at all interested and have trouble finding info just ask me and I'll help.

[Angela123]

thank you very much. i will check that out.

there is just so much i need to fix...sometimes i dont know where to start. the binging, the fear of eating normal non dieting foods, the horrible negative hate i feel towards my body when im not looking the way i want to look or when i mess up on my diet or if i binge, the depression bouts. as well as the underlying issues i have with myself.

i mean...i just would love to be at a point where i can have a stocked kitchen. seriously. that is a big goal of mine. and it depresses me that i cant be normal and enjoy regular food in my home. im sure many are similar to me in this way of thinking. it be great to be like a normal person, you know, who can have a few boxes of cereal, a container of oats, bread, a box of cookies, some pb and jelly, yogurt, cottage cheese etc....and not eat it all in one hr or even if i dont binge on it all in one session, it would still be gone in a day or two. there is no reason to go through a jar of pb in two days. i never and i mean never have anything in bags/containers, bc that stuff is too easy to binge on. all of that stuff is locked up in my roommate's (who is my sister...hence why she is so nice to do this) room. all i keep in our kitchen are heads of lettuce and cabbage, bags of spinach, cartons of eggs, egg whites and tuna. frozen chicken/turkey is in the freezer. this is now...in offseason. i still manage to over eat tho. ive tried to have oats haha...that large container of quaker oats dissappeared in half a day. but ...little steps at a time. i know ill get better and be able to enjoy a stocked kitchen one day. i have my future husband and kids to think about. their mom/wife cant be a nutcase. i cant expect my kids to keep food in their rooms or have my husband lock up food from me.

funny...my SO is the absolute opposite of me. he has a big bowl of chocolate candy in his kitchen...from a year ago. he keeps bags of cookies for months, his cereal also lasts for months. he gets bulk packages of hershey chocolate bars lol...they last for a yr. it blows my mind. so while he is very patient and loving, he just cannot understand how i can eat so much and so fast. when he go out to dinner...i am done way before him and my plate is bare...he usually eats half of his meal.

[tammyp]

my god i think your my long lost twin! we have so many of the same fears, quirks and phobias.

[Frosty]

thank you very much. i will check that out.

there is just so much i need to fix...sometimes i dont know where to start. the binging, the fear of eating normal non dieting foods, the horrible negative hate i feel towards my body when im not looking the way i want to look or when i mess up on my diet or if i binge, the depression bouts. as well as the underlying issues i have with myself.

In my opinion this is where the EFT method is very helpful. Here is where you get the free manual:

http://www.emofree.com/downloadeftmanual.asp

The first reaction will probably be "wtf is this...this is stupid," but give it a chance if you're actually interested :) I've used it to help with a lot of issues I've had with myself.

[Sistersteel]

In my opinion this is where the EFT method is very helpful. Here is where you get the free manual:

http://www.emofree.com/downloadeftmanual.asp

The first reaction will probably be "wtf is this...this is stupid," but give it a chance if you're actually interested :) I've used it to help with a lot of issues I've had with myself.


That its very interesting. I think I might try that as well. Do I check the manual?

[Frosty]

That its very interesting. I think I might try that as well. Do I check the manual?

Yes. Keep an open mind but I won't blame you if you think it's stupid.

[Sistersteel]

Yes. Keep an open mind but I won't blame you if you think it's stupid.

Nothing with a good purpose is stupid.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Eating disorders continue to be on the rise among athletes, especially those involved in sports that place great emphasis on the athlete's physique. Sports such as gymnastics, figure skating, dancing and synchronized swimming, and especially bodybuilding have a higher percentage of athletes with eating disorders, than sports such as basketball, skiing and volleyball.

In the last few years, researchers have linked bodybuilding to an overwhelming drive for lean muscle mass coined "reverse anorexia". The bodybuilders' obsessional behavior resembles anorexia nervosa with remarkable similarity except that the drive for enormous muscles replaces the drive for thinness. This alarming psychological syndrome may motivate bodybuilders and weightlifters, to a lesser extent, to relinquish friends, to give up responsibilities, to pursue unusual diets, to overtrain and to risk their health by abusing steroids.

Bodybuilders were found to possess greater body dissatisfaction than athletes from any other sport.

Let us discuss our struggles with food. I know many ladies have made mention of having had issues of this nature at one point or another throughout the course of their athletic careers.

Do you think women are more prone to developing eating disorders in the lifestyle? Or does the disease not discriminate between male and female bodybuilders?

Do you think that bodybuilding feeds an eating disorder or does it add structure to our eating regimens?

Discuss.

I don't think bodybuilding feeds eating disorders- what a phrase! It emphasizes eating a nutritious high protein diet with supplements- sounds good to me- and the professional or 2 I've seen thought that was great. I do think that, without any doubt, women are more prone to eating disorders. And no wonder! Look at womens magazines, tv channels or shows, commercials, even the supermarket check out line (which is totally geared to women). Its all -"lose 20 lbs in 2 weeks!, eat your way to a thinner you!, 50 recipes that burn fat!, drop 2 dress sizes in a week! At the bookstore, diet books- mostly all female oriented all over... and on and on... plus women are told to be 'skinny' or thin. As guys we wanted to be strong, buff- at least to a point, lean, but not skinny. Women aren't encouraged to be that- at least not in the mainstream- yet. No WONDER they have eating disorders. Plus for some bizarre reason, there's a tendency to equate food with 'bad' - "sinfully delicious recipes", etc. And women seem to absorb all this ( either too passive, too socially influenced or not thinking). If all this was pushed on guys, there would be physical violence. I think it might, and does carry over to the figure girls- not so much bodybuilders- you can't maintain maximum mass with an eating disorder- at least not without great effort and pain- probably doesn't happen often.

[Angela123]

I don't think bodybuilding feeds eating disorders- what a phrase! It emphasizes eating a nutritious high protein diet with supplements- sounds good to me- and the professional or 2 I've seen thought that was great. I do think that, without any doubt, women are more prone to eating disorders. And no wonder! Look at womens magazines, tv channels or shows, commercials, even the supermarket check out line (which is totally geared to women). Its all -"lose 20 lbs in 2 weeks!, eat your way to a thinner you!, 50 recipes that burn fat!, drop 2 dress sizes in a week! At the bookstore, diet books- mostly all female oriented all over... and on and on... plus women are told to be 'skinny' or thin. As guys we wanted to be strong, buff- at least to a point, lean, but not skinny. Women aren't encouraged to be that- at least not in the mainstream- yet. No WONDER they have eating disorders. Plus for some bizarre reason, there's a tendency to equate food with 'bad' - "sinfully delicious recipes", etc. And women seem to absorb all this ( either too passive, too socially influenced or not thinking). If all this was pushed on guys, there would be physical violence. I think it might, and does carry over to the figure girls- not so much bodybuilders- you can't maintain maximum mass with an eating disorder- at least not without great effort and pain- probably doesn't happen often.


i also do not think bb causes an eating disorder. eating disorders are caused by other factors...its a mental illness..and being a bb does not cause it. i think if a bb does develop an ED...they had it in them already and never realized it.

i will say, me being a person who suffered from anorexia, food phobias and compulsive binge eating...bb hasnt helped me get better. i will suffer from food and body image issues my whole life, it never goes away, even after you have had an ED. i was physcially all better by the time i was 16...but the mental and emotional aspects of it have never left me. for a while, the problems were dormant, somtimes emerging but they were never horribly bad. then i got into competing and the bb lifestyle...it opened the door for my old problems and thoughts to once again consume my mind.

tho imo, i do think bb diets and lifestyle during season are not that healthy. the drugs, the low cal restrictive contest prep diet and the hours and hours of daily cardio are not the healthiest habits. certainly not normal healthy habits. and unlike the above poster...whenever i go to the medical professionals..they tell me to stop bb!

the old school bb offseason lifestyle is healthy. mod healthy carbs, lean protein, low and healthy fats, moderate cardio, lifting throughout the wk..that is healthy. unfortunately, for SOME, not all people, it is hard to transition to the offseason lifestyle and think that because they look so damn good during 'season,' that they should follow the unhealthy prep diet and training all year long.

i honestly do believe that FOR ME, a bb diet has made my food phobias and problems worse. not saying that is correct and that is happens to all. but with my past, personality, ED and food issues...following a restrictive diet of just certain foods has made me scared of normal foods...even in offseason. ever since i started bb and learning more about bad and good carbs and hidden sugar...now...even in offseason i am scared of colorful veggies. i only eat greens. pathetic when i dont want to eat carrots, tomatos, corn etc bc they contain bad "carbs and sugar." the same with fruit and low fat dairy. some people may think this is a good habit bc dairy and too much fruit is bad for you...but come on. that stuff is perfectly healthy. yogurt, cottage cheese, an apple, carrots..all are healthy and all are part ot other non bb diet plans that help people lose weight.

im sure other pple are like me in this way of thinking...but i dont think its healthy...physcially or mentally. seriously..somedays i really do think bb dieting has made me crazier when it comes to food. but no...it didnt cause me to become food obsessed. i had it in me already...but bb intensified it.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Ondrea. I do hear you about contest prep. But the offseason? I don't know about eating disorders getting worse then, but I don't have one. I do know that when I'm training hard, doing cardio, eating healthy, etc, my depression diminishes and I'm able to channel anxiety into the EFFORT. I thrive more, which is one reason I compete, I DO better. But depression and anxiety may be way different than what you suffer from. And, on a personal note, I am really very sorry you've gone through all that. But, you're still here and doing well in this sport!

[Angela123]

Ondrea. I do hear you about contest prep. But the offseason? I don't know about eating disorders getting worse then, but I don't have one. I do know that when I'm training hard, doing cardio, eating healthy, etc, my depression diminishes and I'm able to channel anxiety into the EFFORT. I thrive more, which is one reason I compete, I DO better. But depression and anxiety may be way different than what you suffer from. And, on a personal note, I am really very sorry you've gone through all that. But, you're still here and doing well in this sport!

yes...those who do not suffer from ED do not understand our way of thinking...but thank you for keeping an open mind and wanting to learn. people with ED suffer all the time...their suffering is not bb related...so yes...during both on and offseason, there are many struggles. bc like i said...those struggles were already there before bb. but the whole good and bad carb thing...that occurred bc of bb. before bb, with my ED thoughts, i would not think it was bad for me to eat carrots. but now as a bb...i do think its bad for me to eat carrots.

yes...during season...i am much happier and i am excited to see my body change and im excited to be better than i ever was before. i do enjoy my tough workouts and tough cardio...but still...deep down..i do know that the habits we as bb engage in, are not the healthiest.

for me tho, in offseason...it is very, very hard to train hard and enjoy it bc of my messed up body image. i hate my body in offseason...a person with an ED, their body runs their whole life...if im unhappy with my body and think that i should look different, it is hard to like anything/enjoy anything. i cant tell you how many times ive missed out on events for family and friends bc i didnt like how my body looked. just last wkend actually...i cancelled wkened plans with my BF (who i dont see often bc of distance) bc i was too depressed about how i look. right now...the last month or so...its been very hard to get to the gym, but i do go everyday. tho many times, i go late at night when it is not busy. but my workouts suck. i dont enjoy it when i dont look good.

thank you for your well wishes. im taking all of this year off from competing...and to be quite honest...i am unsure if i will ever compete again...unless i can get myself better...mentally.

[Erin]

yes...those who do not suffer from ED do not understand our way of thinking...but thank you for keeping an open mind and wanting to learn. people with ED suffer all the time...their suffering is not bb related...so yes...during both on and offseason, there are many struggles. bc like i said...those struggles were already there before bb. but the whole good and bad carb thing...that occurred bc of bb. before bb, with my ED thoughts, i would not think it was bad for me to eat carrots. but now as a bb...i do think its bad for me to eat carrots.

yes...during season...i am much happier and i am excited to see my body change and im excited to be better than i ever was before. i do enjoy my tough workouts and tough cardio...but still...deep down..i do know that the habits we as bb engage in, are not the healthiest.

for me tho, in offseason...it is very, very hard to train hard and enjoy it bc of my messed up body image. i hate my body in offseason...a person with an ED, their body runs their whole life...if im unhappy with my body and think that i should look different, it is hard to like anything/enjoy anything. i cant tell you how many times ive missed out on events for family and friends bc i didnt like how my body looked. just last wkend actually...i cancelled wkened plans with my BF (who i dont see often bc of distance) bc i was too depressed about how i look. right now...the last month or so...its been very hard to get to the gym, but i do go everyday. tho many times, i go late at night when it is not busy. but my workouts suck. i dont enjoy it when i dont look good.

thank you for your well wishes. im taking all of this year off from competing...and to be quite honest...i am unsure if i will ever compete again...unless i can get myself better...mentally.

Haha! We have had many conversations about this issue. You KNOW I couldn't agree more. ;)

Here is a text I received from a friend of mine (Andrea, I already forwarded you this one). He is not a BB, but understands the mentality...

"... looking that way (stage ready) is only temporary and because of that it makes it so much harder to go back. It can never be enough to be ordinary unless you truly accepted yourself BEFORE you had accomplished your goals, which is not the case for most of us. The body you achieve for competition is not the ESSENCE of your value... it is the PRODUCT of who you are. Its a curse and a psychological illness. I have it and I know you do too. Its great to look as good as we can, but its pathological when we can't accept ourselves UNLESS we reach the ridiculous standards that we set."