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esplendido
03-11-2010, 12:31 AM
I'm 6'-4" and currently weigh 291. Ferrigno is 6'-4" and weighed 275 when he played the Incredible Hulk on T.V. So you know I get respect when I walk into any gym. I get the same question everywhere I work out; "How did you get so big?"

I'm an ectomorph. I barely weighed 180lbs when I graduated from High School. I was 6'-4"...and got to 180 with 2 years of working out! I have long, skinny fingers, narrow wrists and ankles and a 6'-9" wingspan. And I have over 35 years of trial and error under my belt.

There is a secret, I've discovered, to forcing your body to grow. Sure I use AAS, but anyone with experience will tell you that if you don't train and eat right, your gains on-cycle will not be maximized. Not enough protein and carbs....no growth. Those are the easily understood factors.

What I've found in my eternity of lifting is that a paradox exists: Most lifters overtrain AND don't lift enough. Let me rephrase that. Most people do to much and not enough at the same time. Still confused?

If you are in the gym longer than 45-50 minutes to work out, you're overtraining. If your sets a comprised of mostly 10+ reps, you're not lifting heavy enough. If you are supersetting, drop setting, or giant setting to bulk, you're overtraining. If you're working each bodypart more than once a week, you're overtraining. If you're doing more than 9 working sets per bodypart (legs not included), you're overtraining and not lifting heavy enough.

How do you do only 9 sets average per bodypart, working each bodypart only once a week, and do it all in 45 minutes or less and grow? Having the ability to focus your effort on the muscle being worked! the "mind/muscle" connection.

With the exception of seated calf raises and forearm curls, every exercise uses sympathetic muscles to help contract the muscle you're working. Being able to ignore those sympathetic muscles and concentrate singly on the muscle being worked is the key.

Here's how you learn to focus on that one muscle; take your quads for instance. Stand in front of the mirror and flex ONLY your right quad. Hold that flex until it burns. Don't flex any other muscle. Don't hold your breath as you flex. Just flex the right quad. Do that with your left. Another example: standing relaxed and without crunching over, flex your abs. Don't hold your breath (this takes some practice). Lats.....flex them without holding your arms out or flexing your chest. Do this with every muscle until you've mastered flexing that muscle by itself, without straining other muscles or holding your breath. Once you have this mastered, you know how to "feel" that individual muscle when you work it out.

Imagine for a second that you're doing narrow grip seated rows. The muscles involved in that movement are legs, arms, shoulders, abs and back. But it's an exercise meant to build the upper back and lats. How do you focus the rep on the desired muscle? "Feel" it. Concentrate on flexing that muscle group while ignoring the others. This can be done regardless of reps and weight. You can"feel" it contracting on a 10 rep set as well as a 2 rep set. And it is on the 2 rep set that it's most important to "feel" the muscle because it is that set that forces your muscle to grow!

I'm a firm believer in the theory that you have to gradually recruit muscle fiber to 100% firing. I pyramid my sets, using the first 2 or 3 to recruit more and more muscle fiber. By the time I get to the weight that only allows me 2-4 reps, 100% of my muscle is firing and there is where the growth work happens. But that growing set couldn't happen without the preceding sets getting the muscle ready for the work!

There is also a myth that you need to rest 3 minutes between sets to allow maximum effort. I disagree. 90 seconds is plenty of rest...and in fact is critical to keep the muscle involving more and more muscle fiber to lift. I do 9 sets of back, not including the initial warm up and my back workout lasts 20 minutes! That's 30 seconds to do the set and 90 seconds to rest. 2 minutes from set to set times 9 equals 18 minutes, plus the warmup.

Add enough protein to repair muscle and enough carbs to fuel the effort, and you're bound to grow. The final factor is rest. I do legs, chest, back, shoulders, and arms.....5 days. Then 2 days of rest. Most young guys can't stand to lose their pump and are in the gym 6-7 days a week. Overtraining! Many will work every bodypart twice a week to keep the pump. Overtraining. I challenge the guys who swear they grow on working bodyparts twice a week to use my routine for 2 months, and if they don't grow faster than the other way, I'll buy their next cycle!

How's that for confidence!

exit2010
03-11-2010, 12:36 AM
good deal. not all will work for me but it is a good read.

esplendido
03-11-2010, 12:39 AM
good deal. not all will work for me but it is a good read.

I disagree.....respectfully. (won't work for you)

-BLP-
03-11-2010, 01:29 AM
10 ui hgh pharmagrade year basis with insulin on off season , and then cycle steroid at a older age need blood check with a doctor who understand number and anabolic and let's you walk on edge on gaining size and being healthy and tel you when to go off and ...

DR.BB
03-11-2010, 07:28 AM
At one point, I was training twice a day, six times a week. Heavy Benches in the morning and heavy close grip at night! The local guru suggested I hit each bodypart once a week, and it was becoming popular in the 90s I think to do that, but I agree. It was the best thing I did and haven't turned back since. I do need the 3 minutes rest to move any kind of weight, especially these days. But the overall post makes sense to me.

Baldiewonkanobi
03-11-2010, 07:36 AM
Makes sence to me. The NPC judges are looking for conditioning...."grainy muscle" according to a judge I recently listened to. Also back shots are some 51% of scoring these days. Will you change things up pre contest, if so how and how far out?

Baldie

axioma
03-11-2010, 07:44 AM
Great post! While I am a hobbit compared to you, I have had my own radical transformation. I was awed by Todd Jewell's transformation over several years, but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, hell, he's a youngin'. Could he do this in this forties? I am 45 (tomorrow) and started competing in '08. In '06 I was a competitive triathlete weighing 175. When I began training seriously in '07 I weighed 178. In '08 I stood on stage at 194. '09 at 198 and I hope to stand at Masters at 205lbs. So 25+ lbs. in three years in your 40's is pretty good. It all comes down to what esplendido mentioned, are you efficient? Less is more...HIT...whatever, it all comes down to maximizing efficiency for maximizing growth! Youth is forgiving, you can spin your wheels and still come out ahead. As we age, the margin for error is less and we must have...wisdom?

esplendido
03-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Makes sence to me. The NPC judges are looking for conditioning...."grainy muscle" according to a judge I recently listened to. Also back shots are some 51% of scoring these days. Will you change things up pre contest, if so how and how far out?

Baldie

My answer is why change what works? If my regular training has built big, dense muscle, what would move me to do anything different? Diet is what uncovers muscle, not training. I lift exactly the same whether bulking or cutting.

esplendido
03-11-2010, 11:30 AM
At one point, I was training twice a day, six times a week. Heavy Benches in the morning and heavy close grip at night! The local guru suggested I hit each bodypart once a week, and it was becoming popular in the 90s I think to do that, but I agree. It was the best thing I did and haven't turned back since. I do need the 3 minutes rest to move any kind of weight, especially these days. But the overall post makes sense to me.

If you make an effort to decrease the rest period in small increments, it will come down without loss of strength. Start by decreasing the rest period by 15 seconds at first. Then every couple of weeks drop it another 5 seconds until you get to approx. 90 seconds.

But I'm not a stickler on this point. You can grow nicely with the longer rest period. I'm talking efficiency here, that's all.

Bryan Hildebrand
03-11-2010, 05:37 PM
great reading here. to a degree, we are all different. when i trained as a powerlifter, I took 3-5 mins of rest betwen sets. now, I train very dorian style for the first 75% of my training day, then increase the volume and reps for finishing exercises. has really made big improvements to my smaller musculature and will I think bring about greater detail to my existing mass.

magsmalone
03-11-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm 6'-4" and currently weigh 291. Ferrigno is 6'-4" and weighed 275 when he played the Incredible Hulk on T.V. So you know I get respect when I walk into any gym. I get the same question everywhere I work out; "How did you get so big?"

I'm an ectomorph. I barely weighed 180lbs when I graduated from High School. I was 6'-4"...and got to 180 with 2 years of working out! I have long, skinny fingers, narrow wrists and ankles and a 6'-9" wingspan. And I have over 35 years of trial and error under my belt.

There is a secret, I've discovered, to forcing your body to grow. Sure I use AAS, but anyone with experience will tell you that if you don't train and eat right, your gains on-cycle will not be maximized. Not enough protein and carbs....no growth. Those are the easily understood factors.

What I've found in my eternity of lifting is that a paradox exists: Most lifters overtrain AND don't lift enough. Let me rephrase that. Most people do to much and not enough at the same time. Still confused?

If you are in the gym longer than 45-50 minutes to work out, you're overtraining. If your sets a comprised of mostly 10+ reps, you're not lifting heavy enough. If you are supersetting, drop setting, or giant setting to bulk, you're overtraining. If you're working each bodypart more than once a week, you're overtraining. If you're doing more than 9 working sets per bodypart (legs not included), you're overtraining and not lifting heavy enough.

How do you do only 9 sets average per bodypart, working each bodypart only once a week, and do it all in 45 minutes or less and grow? Having the ability to focus your effort on the muscle being worked! the "mind/muscle" connection.

With the exception of seated calf raises and forearm curls, every exercise uses sympathetic muscles to help contract the muscle you're working. Being able to ignore those sympathetic muscles and concentrate singly on the muscle being worked is the key.

Here's how you learn to focus on that one muscle; take your quads for instance. Stand in front of the mirror and flex ONLY your right quad. Hold that flex until it burns. Don't flex any other muscle. Don't hold your breath as you flex. Just flex the right quad. Do that with your left. Another example: standing relaxed and without crunching over, flex your abs. Don't hold your breath (this takes some practice). Lats.....flex them without holding your arms out or flexing your chest. Do this with every muscle until you've mastered flexing that muscle by itself, without straining other muscles or holding your breath. Once you have this mastered, you know how to "feel" that individual muscle when you work it out.

Imagine for a second that you're doing narrow grip seated rows. The muscles involved in that movement are legs, arms, shoulders, abs and back. But it's an exercise meant to build the upper back and lats. How do you focus the rep on the desired muscle? "Feel" it. Concentrate on flexing that muscle group while ignoring the others. This can be done regardless of reps and weight. You can"feel" it contracting on a 10 rep set as well as a 2 rep set. And it is on the 2 rep set that it's most important to "feel" the muscle because it is that set that forces your muscle to grow!

I'm a firm believer in the theory that you have to gradually recruit muscle fiber to 100% firing. I pyramid my sets, using the first 2 or 3 to recruit more and more muscle fiber. By the time I get to the weight that only allows me 2-4 reps, 100% of my muscle is firing and there is where the growth work happens. But that growing set couldn't happen without the preceding sets getting the muscle ready for the work!

There is also a myth that you need to rest 3 minutes between sets to allow maximum effort. I disagree. 90 seconds is plenty of rest...and in fact is critical to keep the muscle involving more and more muscle fiber to lift. I do 9 sets of back, not including the initial warm up and my back workout lasts 20 minutes! That's 30 seconds to do the set and 90 seconds to rest. 2 minutes from set to set times 9 equals 18 minutes, plus the warmup.

Add enough protein to repair muscle and enough carbs to fuel the effort, and you're bound to grow. The final factor is rest. I do legs, chest, back, shoulders, and arms.....5 days. Then 2 days of rest. Most young guys can't stand to lose their pump and are in the gym 6-7 days a week. Overtraining! Many will work every bodypart twice a week to keep the pump. Overtraining. I challenge the guys who swear they grow on working bodyparts twice a week to use my routine for 2 months, and if they don't grow faster than the other way, I'll buy their next cycle!

How's that for confidence!
I wholeheartedly agree with your philosophy about muscle growth training. I am presently doing a 2 day body split power lifting cycle that entails pyramiding up to a max set of 5 and then doing 5x5 sets at the heavy weight. I am taking a day of rest in between to recover. I really need the recovery day. How many weeks out from competing do you taper the weight down? Or do you change your routine?

Youngguns
03-11-2010, 05:54 PM
I disagree with the majority of the post.

For instance you do NOT ever need to do less than 6 reps.

1.5 minutes is a quick rest? Try 30 seconds - 1 minute. If over a minute, you're taking too long (unless it's the last set of the hardest movement).

I do agree that you shouldn't be in the gym for more than an hour, unless you're doing cardio as well. I also agree with working each muscle once per week. I also agree with flexing your muscle at home to feel it.

Also, the whole "9 sets" thing is ridiculous.

"It's a myth you need 3 mins..." Who in gods holy name thinks you need to rest that long?

esplendido
03-11-2010, 07:18 PM
I disagree with the majority of the post.

For instance you do NOT ever need to do less than 6 reps.

1.5 minutes is a quick rest? Try 30 seconds - 1 minute. If over a minute, you're taking too long (unless it's the last set of the hardest movement).

I do agree that you shouldn't be in the gym for more than an hour, unless you're doing cardio as well. I also agree with working each muscle once per week. I also agree with flexing your muscle at home to feel it.

Also, the whole "9 sets" thing is ridiculous.

"It's a myth you need 3 mins..." Who in gods holy name thinks you need to rest that long?

I know you're trying to bait me, asswipe. You posting in the masters forum when you have no business here is one clue. I'll put my 35 years of experience up against your 21 years of life anytime. Nuff said.

esplendido
03-11-2010, 07:21 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with your philosophy about muscle growth training. I am presently doing a 2 day body split power lifting cycle that entails pyramiding up to a max set of 5 and then doing 5x5 sets at the heavy weight. I am taking a day of rest in between to recover. I really need the recovery day. How many weeks out from competing do you taper the weight down? Or do you change your routine?

I do nothing different training-wise for contest prep. Eventually, as I get closer and leaner, I can't handle the top weights I did when bulked, but I train as heavy as my body will allow. If this training created the muscle I have, no need to change that...and it keeps it big while dieting. It's in the kitchen where the real work takes place.

D_T
03-11-2010, 08:01 PM
I also disagree with some of it but it's clearly well thought out. I do believe different people need different things. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rest periods are 60-75 seconds unless I'm doing a power squat cycle when I'll go 3-4 minutes sometimes.

I'm 45 and been training seriously since I was 14. Won my first show all natural at 18. It's a rarity when I go below 8 reps on a set and pretty much limited to power squatting, when I rest much longer. Sets are usually 10-12 per bodypart. I used to go up to 15-16. I found my intensity went up when I decreased sets. Turned out when my sets were higher I subconsciously 'saved' something for the latter sets.

Prior to the '90's most people trained body parts twice a week; some pros like Bob Paris did 3 X every two weeks. Nowadays people train once a week yet are on 3-4 X as much juice. I do think a lot of people mistake working long for working hard. I try to work smart. I'm usually out of the gym in 45 min. unless I'm stretching at the end.

I take a day off often. Pretty rare to go more than 2 straight days of lifting. I usually follow that with a 2-3 hour bike ride then a day off. 6 straight hard days is something I definitely can't do.

Youngguns
03-12-2010, 02:47 PM
I also disagree with some of it but it's clearly well thought out. I do believe different people need different things. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rest periods are 60-75 seconds unless I'm doing a power squat cycle when I'll go 3-4 minutes sometimes.

I'm 45 and been training seriously since I was 14. Won my first show all natural at 18. It's a rarity when I go below 8 reps on a set and pretty much limited to power squatting, when I rest much longer. Sets are usually 10-12 per bodypart. I used to go up to 15-16. I found my intensity went up when I decreased sets. Turned out when my sets were higher I subconsciously 'saved' something for the latter sets.

Prior to the '90's most people trained body parts twice a week; some pros like Bob Paris did 3 X every two weeks. Nowadays people train once a week yet are on 3-4 X as much juice. I do think a lot of people mistake working long for working hard. I try to work smart. I'm usually out of the gym in 45 min. unless I'm stretching at the end.

I take a day off often. Pretty rare to go more than 2 straight days of lifting. I usually follow that with a 2-3 hour bike ride then a day off. 6 straight hard days is something I definitely can't do.Often people have the "4 sets 4 sets" mentality, lately I've been doing 2-3 and it's working so much better, no wasted "warm up" sets, depending on a bunch of criteria, sometimes I'll do 5 sets.

And for the record I wasn't trolling, it's called difference of opinion, too many yes men around.

BigJD69
03-12-2010, 03:29 PM
The older you get the more important it is to train less and get the proper rest. Back in my younger years I would be in the gym for 2 hrs at a time (including 30 min of cardio), on back day do 15-20 sets, well my friends those days are long gone!!!! Nowadays, at 41, I will train 2 bodyparts in 45 min. once a week. I rest maybe 60 secs in between sets. If for after a week and I still have a sore body part I will skip until I am no longer sore!

gman
03-12-2010, 03:33 PM
I must be lucky or have young joints since I only started at 43 and 1/2 years old.

I train 5x a week 16-20 sets each time, and sometimes another time on weekends if I feel like it.

bodyhard
03-12-2010, 03:41 PM
The older you get the more important it is to train less and get the proper rest.


I'll have to disagree with this, 45 years old here, been training for well over 20 years, drug free, I still train for over an hour in the gym especially when doing legs or back.

Mac
03-12-2010, 04:13 PM
I'll have to disagree with this, 45 years old here, been training for well over 20 years, drug free, I still train for over an hour in the gym especially when doing legs or back.

I have to agree with this. My workouts are more intense at 54 then they were at 24. I train 5 out of 7 days, often times 4 days in a row and must force a rest day.

bodyhard
03-12-2010, 07:22 PM
I have to agree with this. My workouts are more intense at 54 then they were at 24. I train 5 out of 7 days, often times 4 days in a row and must force a rest day.


I think you and I are just fucking animals man! :yep:

esplendido
03-12-2010, 07:23 PM
I must be lucky or have young joints since I only started at 43 and 1/2 years old.

I train 5x a week 16-20 sets each time, and sometimes another time on weekends if I feel like it.

Mike (and all)...any training technique, given a proper diet and rest, will net gains. I'm talking about efficiency. How to gain the most with the minimum required effort. I still stand by my offer (for non-natties). Try my program - honestly - and I guarantee more rapid growth and better growth.

Sure, you can say "I've trained all my life with high reps for hours a day... and look at me". And I will reply, "and you could've been 10lbs more muscular with a denser look on my program". And how would you prove otherwise without trying my program? I've done yours over the years and have real life data to compare to.

gman
03-12-2010, 07:41 PM
Let me get leaned out all the way and do my two shows...then it's growing time, Rick. I am a nattie though, sort of, just doing testosterone cream with Total T in the 600's

I would like to put on some muscle over the fall and winter this coming year. I honestly like how I look most days but I am damn narrow through the shoulders for sure so any muscle I add up there will show right up!

Mac
03-12-2010, 09:14 PM
Sure, you can say "I've trained all my life with high reps for hours a day... and look at me"

I use high reps and low reps and never for hours a day. Both have there place in my training regimen.

But like the guy sitting at the bar wanting to have another drink, sometimes I just want to do another set or two, even though it may or may not be in my best interest.

I am not disagreeing with you Rick, just saying that what works for you, the best and most efficient way, may not be for the others. You are in fact, by your sheer size, an anomaly and probably have some hidden myostatin killer gene.

s2h
03-12-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm 6'-4" and currently weigh 291. Ferrigno is 6'-4" and weighed 275 when he played the Incredible Hulk on T.V. So you know I get respect when I walk into any gym. I get the same question everywhere I work out; "How did you get so big?"

I'm an ectomorph. I barely weighed 180lbs when I graduated from High School. I was 6'-4"...and got to 180 with 2 years of working out! I have long, skinny fingers, narrow wrists and ankles and a 6'-9" wingspan. And I have over 35 years of trial and error under my belt.

There is a secret, I've discovered, to forcing your body to grow. Sure I use AAS, but anyone with experience will tell you that if you don't train and eat right, your gains on-cycle will not be maximized. Not enough protein and carbs....no growth. Those are the easily understood factors.

What I've found in my eternity of lifting is that a paradox exists: Most lifters overtrain AND don't lift enough. Let me rephrase that. Most people do to much and not enough at the same time. Still confused?

If you are in the gym longer than 45-50 minutes to work out, you're overtraining. If your sets a comprised of mostly 10+ reps, you're not lifting heavy enough. If you are supersetting, drop setting, or giant setting to bulk, you're overtraining. If you're working each bodypart more than once a week, you're overtraining. If you're doing more than 9 working sets per bodypart (legs not included), you're overtraining and not lifting heavy enough.

How do you do only 9 sets average per bodypart, working each bodypart only once a week, and do it all in 45 minutes or less and grow? Having the ability to focus your effort on the muscle being worked! the "mind/muscle" connection.

With the exception of seated calf raises and forearm curls, every exercise uses sympathetic muscles to help contract the muscle you're working. Being able to ignore those sympathetic muscles and concentrate singly on the muscle being worked is the key.

Here's how you learn to focus on that one muscle; take your quads for instance. Stand in front of the mirror and flex ONLY your right quad. Hold that flex until it burns. Don't flex any other muscle. Don't hold your breath as you flex. Just flex the right quad. Do that with your left. Another example: standing relaxed and without crunching over, flex your abs. Don't hold your breath (this takes some practice). Lats.....flex them without holding your arms out or flexing your chest. Do this with every muscle until you've mastered flexing that muscle by itself, without straining other muscles or holding your breath. Once you have this mastered, you know how to "feel" that individual muscle when you work it out.

Imagine for a second that you're doing narrow grip seated rows. The muscles involved in that movement are legs, arms, shoulders, abs and back. But it's an exercise meant to build the upper back and lats. How do you focus the rep on the desired muscle? "Feel" it. Concentrate on flexing that muscle group while ignoring the others. This can be done regardless of reps and weight. You can"feel" it contracting on a 10 rep set as well as a 2 rep set. And it is on the 2 rep set that it's most important to "feel" the muscle because it is that set that forces your muscle to grow!

I'm a firm believer in the theory that you have to gradually recruit muscle fiber to 100% firing. I pyramid my sets, using the first 2 or 3 to recruit more and more muscle fiber. By the time I get to the weight that only allows me 2-4 reps, 100% of my muscle is firing and there is where the growth work happens. But that growing set couldn't happen without the preceding sets getting the muscle ready for the work!

There is also a myth that you need to rest 3 minutes between sets to allow maximum effort. I disagree. 90 seconds is plenty of rest...and in fact is critical to keep the muscle involving more and more muscle fiber to lift. I do 9 sets of back, not including the initial warm up and my back workout lasts 20 minutes! That's 30 seconds to do the set and 90 seconds to rest. 2 minutes from set to set times 9 equals 18 minutes, plus the warmup.

Add enough protein to repair muscle and enough carbs to fuel the effort, and you're bound to grow. The final factor is rest. I do legs, chest, back, shoulders, and arms.....5 days. Then 2 days of rest. Most young guys can't stand to lose their pump and are in the gym 6-7 days a week. Overtraining! Many will work every bodypart twice a week to keep the pump. Overtraining. I challenge the guys who swear they grow on working bodyparts twice a week to use my routine for 2 months, and if they don't grow faster than the other way, I'll buy their next cycle!

How's that for confidence!i agree completely,i did chest today in 18 minutes,people bullshit around and over training is the most common mistake i see in every gym!

magsmalone
03-13-2010, 06:01 PM
I do nothing different training-wise for contest prep. Eventually, as I get closer and leaner, I can't handle the top weights I did when bulked, but I train as heavy as my body will allow. If this training created the muscle I have, no need to change that...and it keeps it big while dieting. It's in the kitchen where the real work takes place.
Hmm..Point well taken. Do you have much joint pain from the heavy weight as you get leaner?

esplendido
03-14-2010, 01:07 PM
Hmm..Point well taken. Do you have much joint pain from the heavy weight as you get leaner?

Nope. Now, when I go off cycle and cruise between, I definitely start feeling some joint pain. But that's not before a show.

Shariff Abel
03-14-2010, 01:09 PM
only way i got soooooooo big is that i had Mr.G as Motivator and Trainer !