Another q Re: Primo tab form

[NessieNewbie]

So i've done TONS of searching and reading regarding Primo Tabs, but I wonder what are personal experiences with the Oral Primo vs. injectable.

I wouldn't mind injectable if it wasn't for the fact that I had a reaction (cellulitis) 2 out of the 3 times I've pinned by leg (quad). So I'm kinda leary about doing it again, even if on a different location, ya know.

So I'm looking into the oral version, and wanted to get your views (as effective as the injectable, waste of money, will it destroy my insides, etc). from all that i've read, i think my liver will be pretty safe, plus I do intend to take milk thistle to help cleanse/flush my body and keep it healthy once i'm done with the cycle.

Last time i actually took something orally was YEARS ago, stupid move on my part, and took Thermorexin (Not an anabolic steroid, but some retarded pill i got over the internet. dumb...yea i kno). i'm an itty bitty petite thing, so this spiked my blood pressure so high that I wound up with swollen welts from the knees down and I couldn't walk, had to head to the ER. Not to mention I felt like I was tweaked outta my mind for god knows how many hours. and i only took 1! so i don't want to have some freak reaction again that'll put me back there. (shit I was just there last week for my leg from the pinning! LMAO!) ugh!

I've already read lots of things on this site as well when I ran the search engine for "primoblan tablets" and there was tons of useful info, which was awesome. just looking for more insight i suppose before I make my final decision.

Guess I can tell you guys a bit about my physique:
I'm not a BBr like majority of the posters of this site (swear you guys all amaze me, you look friggen AWESOME!). but i am very fit (problem areas, or at least i think so), but I've been working out for years. I'd say since my teens. Excersize wise, I'm always taking some type of plyometrics class at my gyms, step classes, i do kickboxing, contact boxing, and weight train. I am very very light on my weights, nothing super heavy. (i won't lie though, after seeing some of you chicks, I feel like i'm getting an itch to start! LOL!)

Anyway so for the most part I'm pretty toned. I'm looking to give that extra "oomph" sort of look, I'm looking to cut up and add slightly more muscle definition. I'm all of 5 feet tall, 120 lbs, and i'm 31.

* the end :p

[SallyAnne]

Thermorexin is made by Anafit, which is a good company. I've used it before and still have some, I think.

My honest opinion is that you should just scrap the idea of taking primo all together. There's no need to jump right into this drug when you've never taken AAS before. If you're not going to weight train the way the rest of us do, then there's no need to take AAS at all. It will not make you leaner or more "toned". Proper diet, training, and cardio are what makes a lean body.

Why do you train with light weight? If your answer is that you don't want to get too big or look bulky - you are seriously misinformed about women and weight lifting. Steroids help build muscle - they don't make you more "toned".

[NessieNewbie]

Thermorexin is made by Anafit, which is a good company. I've used it before and still have some, I think.

My honest opinion is that you should just scrap the idea of taking primo all together. There's no need to jump right into this drug when you've never taken AAS before. If you're not going to weight train the way the rest of us do, then there's no need to take AAS at all. It will not make you leaner or more "toned". Proper diet, training, and cardio are what makes a lean body.

Why do you train with light weight? If your answer is that you don't want to get too big or look bulky - you are seriously misinformed about women and weight lifting. Steroids help build muscle - they don't make you more "toned".

Hi Sally! Thanks for responding.

Well to answer your question as to why i train with light weight, well honestly, thats what I've always done. I don't want to pop a blood vessel in my eye while i'm trying to lift this heavy weight ya know. LMAO! no but seriously, lets say for example I'm on a seated squat type of machine, the poundage on that would be 100 or 110 for 12 or 15 reps, 3 sets. to me thats light weight compared to the poundage you guys can do with your eyes closed. understand what i mean? I definately want to build more muscle, i want to be stronger. i think my diet is pretty straight, i do a crapload of cardio (maybe not too many machines but the cardio type of classes i take count, no?). and in between i do weights on non cardio type days. granted i need to step up my game in the weight room, which is probably why i struggle with heavier amounts of weight.

[SallyAnne]

If you're just going through the motions and not pushing yourself in the weight room, you'll never make any progress no matter how many drugs you do or do not take. I bet you'd see results without any drugs if you just pushed yourself at the gym. Also - with all that cardio training - how much food are you taking in a day, calorie wise? If you're not eating enough, this will also make you stall and prevent you from making any gains.

If you really want to take something, I think you should start with Anavar. With the proper amount of food and the right kind of training, I know you will see good gains and probably also change your bodyfat composition a bit without worrying about bad side effects.

[sassy69]

I agree w/ Sally - you don't need to go anywhere near anything stronger than anavar. You're not lifting like you want to gain and if you are very active cardiovascularly, I'd look at your diet first - are you fueling for the energy demands you are putting on your body? On bulkers where all I've done is up my cals (e.g. double my usual carbs, etc) I can make SIGNIFICANT increases in the weight I can move.

[NessieNewbie]

If you're just going through the motions and not pushing yourself in the weight room, you'll never make any progress no matter how many drugs you do or do not take. I bet you'd see results without any drugs if you just pushed yourself at the gym. Also - with all that cardio training - how much food are you taking in a day, calorie wise? If you're not eating enough, this will also make you stall and prevent you from making any gains.

If you really want to take something, I think you should start with Anavar. With the proper amount of food and the right kind of training, I know you will see good gains and probably also change your bodyfat composition a bit without worrying about bad side effects.

Your pretty much on point when it comes to me having to push myself more in the weight room. This i agree with.

As for calorie intake, I've never really been one to actually "count" how much I'm taking in vs. how much I'm burning, etc. But I'll take you through a normal workday: Breakfast is always plain old fashioned oatmeal, with either a banana and skim milk or just with skim alone. large hazlenut coffee, 1 splenda, splash of skim, and a pinch of hazlenut coffeemate (okay maybe 2 or 3 pinches:rolleyes: ). If I know I'm going to do a heavy cardio class like kickboxing or boxing, I'll have a late morning snack like a can of tuna, black pepper, and a dab of mustard. for lunch i'll have a salad complete with greens, broccolli, carrotts, chick peas, red and yellow peppers, some feta, roasted turky OR dry tuna OR grilled chicken, some red wine vinegar. no real snack in the afternoon because i'm so full from that salad. and dinner is usually quick because i'm doing homework with my 2 young daughters, feeding them, bathing them, etc. so a wierd creation i like to do is 3 egg whites, part skim ricotta cheese, pepperoni, or turkey, or grilled chicken if I made it ahead of time, if i have a sweet potato already baked, i'll toss a few cubes of that in too, form an omlette and viola! Thats my typical type of day when it comes to food. not everyday of course but just to give you an idea. and i always have a pitcher of water on my desk to refill my glasses so i'm always hydrated.

[SallyAnne]

I don't think you're eating enough.

It is very important that you know how many calories you are taking in a day - as well as your macros (protein/carbs/fat ratio). You can't make adjustments if you don't know the numbers.

You also need to know approx how many calories you are burning a day so that you can adjust your diet accordingly. BMR - or basal metabolic rate - is important to know.

Here's a link to get an approximate. It's not perfect, but it will give you an idea of where you're at: http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

[NessieNewbie]

I agree w/ Sally - you don't need to go anywhere near anything stronger than anavar. You're not lifting like you want to gain and if you are very active cardiovascularly, I'd look at your diet first - are you fueling for the energy demands you are putting on your body? On bulkers where all I've done is up my cals (e.g. double my usual carbs, etc) I can make SIGNIFICANT increases in the weight I can move.


Hi Sassafrass (sorry, the name just flowed right off my tongue:flowers:)

I'm kinda thinking I'm not fueling my body enough either now that I'm actually rereading all that i've wrote. i'm thinking I need to be eating a few more meals per day here, if only just veggies at least.... hmmmmm....:confused:

[SallyAnne]

no...more protein. You can't build muscle without protein.

[NessieNewbie]

I don't think you're eating enough.

It is very important that you know how many calories you are taking in a day - as well as your macros (protein/carbs/fat ratio). You can't make adjustments if you don't know the numbers.

You also need to know approx how many calories you are burning a day so that you can adjust your diet accordingly. BMR - or basal metabolic rate - is important to know.

Here's a link to get an approximate. It's not perfect, but it will give you an idea of where you're at: http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

holy CRAP! Says i need to take in 2197 calories :hypno: Frick thats alot! Thats to maintain my current weight.

[SallyAnne]

holy CRAP! Says i need to take in 2197 calories :hypno: Frick thats alot! Thats to maintain my current weight.

Correct. In order to gain muscle, you need to tack on another 300-500 calories a day, and not in vegis. lol PROTEIN and carbs with healthy fats.


This is what I mean when I say your diet needs to be in line before you take any drugs. All the drugs in the world will do absolutely nothing for you if you're not eating right.

[NessieNewbie]

no...more protein. You can't build muscle without protein.


Ahhh, i see. okay so i need to totally UP the meat intake here all together. Oofa! if this is going to help me build more muscle though, i'm game. my freezer is stocked with meat, chicken, turkey, etc. so I don't have any problem cooking this in advance and just bringing it into the office.

[SallyAnne]

...and if you have problems eating that much whole food at first, this is where RTD's or protein powders come in handy. You can drink a shake in between meals to up your protein and calorie count.

[Suzanne]

For sure not eating enough you can get quite strong and add a good amount of muscle without any drugs

you need to have intensity in the gym and push yourself to get you body to respond

all the cardio you are doing is taking away from any muscle growth

you really need more food complex carbs, veggies do nothing for you as far as energy they are just for vitamin/minerals and fiber to stay regular

to maintain cals estimate 15xbodyweight
to gain muscle cals estimate 20xbodyweight
I don't count my veggies at all in calorie count

Drugs aren't magic they are a small portion of the big picture food and training intensity are far more important in the results you will get

[SallyAnne]

a great tool to figure out your calories and macros:

www.fitday.com


I had a lot of success with a 40% protein/30% carb/30% healthy fats diet. This is a good place to start and you can adjust from there if you need to.

[NessieNewbie]

Correct. In order to gain muscle, you need to tack on another 300-500 calories a day, and not in vegis. lol PROTEIN and carbs with healthy fats.


This is what I mean when I say your diet needs to be in line before you take any drugs. All the drugs in the world will do absolutely nothing for you if you're not eating right.


And so this is exactly why i feel like i literally bust my ass workout out, but i'm constantly seeing no change really. there's slight weight loss, but i feel like i should be seeing a shitload more weight loss, and some more muscle. and this is also why i felt like i reached some sort of plateau and needed to hop on primo to help my body achieve those goals.

low and behold, the answer lies in my very own kitchen. fricken ay.

Thanx mama!:hmn:

I'll look into Anavar as well (i'm still pussy'ing out of injectable though, my quads looked like crap from the reaction - so if anything, tablet form would be for me if available). i'm not going to rush on that though - i'm going to work on my calories. I'm pretty sure i'll see noticeable changes with the right eating.

[SallyAnne]

Believe it or not, you will actually lean down by eating more food more frequently. I think Suzanne eats 8 meals a day or something like that. It keeps your metabolism humming.

[NessieNewbie]

...and if you have problems eating that much whole food at first, this is where RTD's or protein powders come in handy. You can drink a shake in between meals to up your protein and calorie count.


okay so here's a question.....any specific protein?

I used to make protein shakes every morning. I used Designer Whey Protein.

my shakes would consist of:

chocolate DW protein (1 scoop)
a cup of cooked oats
some frozen blueberries
some flax seeds OR flax seed oil (one or the other)
some water
ice
blender
and drink. very yummy

[SallyAnne]

doesn't really matter - just check the nutritional label and plug it into fitday so you know the protein/fat/carb ratios.

[SallyAnne]

I'll look into Anavar as well (i'm still pussy'ing out of injectable though, my quads looked like crap from the reaction - so if anything, tablet form would be for me if available). i'm not going to rush on that though - i'm going to work on my calories. I'm pretty sure i'll see noticeable changes with the right eating.

It's an oral.

[NessieNewbie]

For sure not eating enough you can get quite strong and add a good amount of muscle without any drugs

you need to have intensity in the gym and push yourself to get you body to respond

all the cardio you are doing is taking away from any muscle growth

you really need more food complex carbs, veggies do nothing for you as far as energy they are just for vitamin/minerals and fiber to stay regular

to maintain cals estimate 15xbodyweight
to gain muscle cals estimate 20xbodyweight
I don't count my veggies at all in calorie count

Drugs aren't magic they are a small portion of the big picture food and training intensity are far more important in the results you will get

aside from the total change in eating, I'm going to cut back on these cardio classes (as much as i LOVE them all). you guys are right, these classes may be burning off muscle too. ugh! to the weight room I go!!! Well tomorrow's boxing, can't get rid of that, love throwing on my gloves and hitting the bag. :yep: but i plan to say g'bye to 2 or 3 of my cardio classes and replace them with straight up weight training.

[sassy69]

aside from the total change in eating, I'm going to cut back on these cardio classes (as much as i LOVE them all). you guys are right, these classes may be burning off muscle too. ugh! to the weight room I go!!! Well tomorrow's boxing, can't get rid of that, love throwing on my gloves and hitting the bag. :yep: but i plan to say g'bye to 2 or 3 of my cardio classes and replace them with straight up weight training.

This is EXACTLY it. Its hard to expect to build mass and do lots of cardio all at the same time. You're giving your body mixed signals on what you want it to do. You're not really eating all that much, but you're demanding heavy cardio energy from it, and then somehow you want to grow some muscle mass too. But w/ not enough protein to build and not enough carb to fuel that building, your body will not produce good results in either direction. Consider the massive spaghetti feeds that people do before a marathon. That's gotta be thousands of grams of carbs from some of the loads I've seen. Boxing and all of that is great, but if you're not eating enough carb to fuel that activity, its going to start eating your lean muscle mass. If you throw in heavier lifting, that's going to demand even more. You can't expect drugs to produce what your diet & training aren't already producing. In fact, just so you don't get distracted by thinking about drugs, forget you ever knew they existed. You can absolutely accomplish what you want by tweaking your diet first. And you're going to need to spend some time figuring out the best way to alter your diet and get used to it and then see results, so it will take a while. Don't get frustrated and start looking for drugs again. There are no short cuts, but once you find the combination of diet & training that meets your needs, its truly amazing what the human body can do.

[Suzanne]

Believe it or not, you will actually lean down by eating more food more frequently. I think Suzanne eats 8 meals a day or something like that. It keeps your metabolism humming.

lol it's like 10 right now sometimes i feel like i can't get anything done cuz gotta go eat again :hypno:

[NessieNewbie]

This is EXACTLY it. Its hard to expect to build mass and do lots of cardio all at the same time. You're giving your body mixed signals on what you want it to do. You're not really eating all that much, but you're demanding heavy cardio energy from it, and then somehow you want to grow some muscle mass too. But w/ not enough protein to build and not enough carb to fuel that building, your body will not produce good results in either direction. Consider the massive spaghetti feeds that people do before a marathon. That's gotta be thousands of grams of carbs from some of the loads I've seen. Boxing and all of that is great, but if you're not eating enough carb to fuel that activity, its going to start eating your lean muscle mass. If you throw in heavier lifting, that's going to demand even more. You can't expect drugs to produce what your diet & training aren't already producing. In fact, just so you don't get distracted by thinking about drugs, forget you ever knew they existed. You can absolutely accomplish what you want by tweaking your diet first. And you're going to need to spend some time figuring out the best way to alter your diet and get used to it and then see results, so it will take a while. Don't get frustrated and start looking for drugs again. There are no short cuts, but once you find the combination of diet & training that meets your needs, its truly amazing what the human body can do.

Thank you Sass. In fact, thank you ALL for your input, I appreciate all of your answers.

As for the 'stuff', I'll lay off for now and focus more on my dieting and weight training and incorporating this all into one. I have no doubt that I'll see changes.

[Bryan Hildebrand]

let me tell you, this is a fantastic thread. misunderstood application of pharmaceuticals leads to a perfect discussion on macros, calories, intake vs. expenditure and humility. more important? in the end NN will be a better healthier athlete by heeding this advice.

now if men were able to have this kind of open discussion in the chem section, there would be a whole lot less strife and the guys might actually learn something.

nice work ladies.

[sassy69]

let me tell you, this is a fantastic thread. misunderstood application of pharmaceuticals leads to a perfect discussion on macros, calories, intake vs. expenditure and humility. more important? in the end NN will be a better healthier athlete by heeding this advice.

now if men were able to have this kind of open discussion in the chem section, there would be a whole lot less strife and the guys might actually learn something.

nice work ladies.


This makes it that much scarier that most women are getting their AAS recommendations from men....

Over the years I've seen threads like this from women get a lot of push back on just giving straight cycle information as if the person has all the diet & training in line and knows what they're doing. In MOST cases, they don't and are looking for a quicky fix w/ AAS because some guy (bf / hubby / some guy at the gym / trainer) told them "Just use winny - it will lean you out & tone you up". I think most women don't have a longer history of training like most guys do, who they are getting these suggestions from. You simply can't substitute drugs for a lack of history of training - and most women are thinking in the short term about "losing weight" or competing "this year" (i.e. "I need to put on 10 lb of lean muscle by my next show in 3 months") -- the context of expectations is often very different from men (not saying all men know wtf they are doing either..) but I think we've found that often the diet & training are not being given appropriate attention first and the person asking the question has probably never been exposed to the idea of spending time tweaking diet & trainign to get resutls, but never w/ a focus on building muscle - as most women have a fear of "looking like a man".

Anyway.....

Just my observations from several years on muscle boards.

[NessieNewbie]

In MOST cases, they don't and are looking for a quicky fix w/ AAS because some guy (bf / hubby / some guy at the gym / trainer) told them "Just use winny - it will lean you out & tone you up".


^^^^ I found THAT sentence to be absolutely HYSTERICAL. Because now ya know thats EXACTLY how it went down. No lie! LLLLMAO!


I started the whole change on the eating and excersize routine both yesterday and today. Muscles are sore as shit (but a good sore), and the extra added little meals kinda keep me fueled. (maybe its mental) but i feel terrific, energized, and not so worn out as i normally would be after boxing.

[NessieNewbie]

let me tell you, this is a fantastic thread. misunderstood application of pharmaceuticals leads to a perfect discussion on macros, calories, intake vs. expenditure and humility. more important? in the end NN will be a better healthier athlete by heeding this advice.

now if men were able to have this kind of open discussion in the chem section, there would be a whole lot less strife and the guys might actually learn something.

nice work ladies.


Women rock!!! :flowers:

[sassy69]

^^^^ I found THAT sentence to be absolutely HYSTERICAL. Because now ya know thats EXACTLY how it went down. No lie! LLLLMAO!


I started the whole change on the eating and excersize routine both yesterday and today. Muscles are sore as shit (but a good sore), and the extra added little meals kinda keep me fueled. (maybe its mental) but i feel terrific, energized, and not so worn out as i normally would be after boxing.

Awesome! :yep:

And yes, as crazy as it sounds, THAT ^^ is how it usually starts. I think sometimes guys will also tell women anything to get them to shut about "I feel fat...." LOL!

[SallyAnne]

^^^^ I found THAT sentence to be absolutely HYSTERICAL. Because now ya know thats EXACTLY how it went down. No lie! LLLLMAO!


I started the whole change on the eating and excersize routine both yesterday and today. Muscles are sore as shit (but a good sore), and the extra added little meals kinda keep me fueled. (maybe its mental) but i feel terrific, energized, and not so worn out as i normally would be after boxing.

That's awesome! It's really amazing what food and proper training will do. Not only do you see great results, but you feel great, too. :hugme:

[NessieNewbie]

yup.....tomorrow back at it again and i'm itchin for it, LOL. *woot woot*

[NessieNewbie]

and I also find that by 9pm'ish i'm STARVING! Not like I didn't eat all day, and I had a filling delish dinner earlier to that. maybe i'm burning more so my body wants more????? I'm talking tummy growling hungry. :dunno: 9 (for me anyway) is late to eat tho.

[Suzanne]

and I also find that by 9pm'ish i'm STARVING! Not like I didn't eat all day, and I had a filling delish dinner earlier to that. maybe i'm burning more so my body wants more????? I'm talking tummy growling hungry. :dunno: 9 (for me anyway) is late to eat tho.

I have a meal at 10 go to bed 11ish.

[sassy69]

I also eat something like PB & Protein mix or cottage cheese & PB before I go to bed. IMO if I'm hungry in the middle of the night its going to cost me in recovery (i.e. I can't sleep).

[NessieNewbie]

I have a meal at 10 go to bed 11ish.


Really???? So close to bed time? I feel like if i eat so close to bed time, since my body is winding down for the day, the food will just sit in my stomach. I've always, for as long as i can remember, have heard to steer clear of eating at least 2 hours before bed time:dunno:

[NessieNewbie]

I also eat something like PB & Protein mix or cottage cheese & PB before I go to bed. IMO if I'm hungry in the middle of the night its going to cost me in recovery (i.e. I can't sleep).


yeah man, my tummy's been screaming at me for the past 3 days around the 9:00'ish hour. So i'll chug a bottle of water and that seems to suppress my appetite. But maybe I should throw in some protein power too.

[SallyAnne]

Really???? So close to bed time? I feel like if i eat so close to bed time, since my body is winding down for the day, the food will just sit in my stomach. I've always, for as long as i can remember, have heard to steer clear of eating at least 2 hours before bed time:dunno:

This is a myth.

Do you really think your metabolism stops working when you lay down to go to bed? lol

[sassy69]

^^ I think people say that because as part of the perpetual search for the ultimate solution to "losing weight", people tend to snack on comfort food most at night when they're parked in front of the TV. You'd also not want to load on carbs because carbs are used for ENERGY and will give you that little sugar spike and then crash while you're trying to fall asleep.

[Suzanne]

^^ I think people say that because as part of the perpetual search for the ultimate solution to "losing weight", people tend to snack on comfort food most at night when they're parked in front of the TV. You'd also not want to load on carbs because carbs are used for ENERGY and will give you that little sugar spike and then crash while you're trying to fall asleep.

right for the general masses for weight loss if you say no food 2-3 hours then they will not snack well thats the goal at least

i have complex carbs in my last meal even in prep

[Suzanne]

Really???? So close to bed time? I feel like if i eat so close to bed time, since my body is winding down for the day, the food will just sit in my stomach. I've always, for as long as i can remember, have heard to steer clear of eating at least 2 hours before bed time:dunno:

overall it is calories in vs calories out

especially if you are building you want nutrients during sleep for muscles to repair and grow

I get done at gym at 7pm have pwo karbolyn and shake, 7:45 apple n shake, 8:30-9:00 1 cup rice, chicken and veggies, 10ish 1/2 c oats and eggwhites

[LookImDancinCrazy!]

This is a myth.

Do you really think your metabolism stops working when you lay down to go to bed? lol

The issue is more complex than that, SallyAnne.

The liver and the skeletal muscles have a finite ability to store glycogen. Metabolic activity certainly depletes those stores and you could potentially continue consuming carbs all day and not get any "spillover" storage into the fat layer.

However, I do not think it's typical for people to remain sufficiently active right up until bedtime to keep those liver and muscle stores below the full mark. You're an elite athlete, but the OP isn't.

After 45+ minutes of cardio, heck yeah you could probably eat 100g of complex carbs and not risk any adipose tissue storage at all. You could probably do exactly the same at breakfast and not run any risk at all of fat gain. After a hard weight training workout your glycogen stores would be depleted enough to eat a substantial amount of carbs too.

I think the casual lifter interested in lean gains probably should not be eating very many of their carbs within 4 or so hours of bedtime. Their glycogen stores are probably full at that point and it's unlikely they are sufficiently active to need them immediately for energy.

[pebble]

Just my personal experience with primo tabs:
I am near the end of a var/primo tab cycle. I've done 2 previous straight var cycles in the past. It seems to me stacking the primo tabs didn't make any diff in gains to taking var alone. Taking into account that the primo tabs I bought were so expensive, I would rather have spent the money getting more anavar. This will be my 1st and last time on primo tabs.