Arimidex...

[lil piper]

Hello... i hate to ask a questions that has already been answered but I have had no luck getting to the bottom of this...

I do not use any anabolic drugs & I take novadex pre contest...someone mentioned I should add arimidex (.5mg daily) -- to help with the lower body. I took it for 1 1/2 months and felt like total crap...severe fatigue & body/bones pains. I realize now that this was stupid because I am not aromatizing any aa. So I was using both arimidex and nolvadex:hypno:

My question is what are the side effects of stopping arimidex cold turkey?
I resently have been seen by obgyn & have a very large ovarian cyst...
Will stopping impact my progress of the contest diet?? My weight is stuck and I feel like my body is stalling???

Thank you ....

[tammyp]

there really isnt a need to take both. usually you taper, but if you still take nolvadex i dont think it would be necessary. and that is a long time to run an anti e if you still have some time to go. when is your show? they should be used at about 6 wks out.

[lil piper]

show is 7 weeks out...
what would be the impact of using nolvadex for longer than that??
have competed quite a bit and just feel like my body is 100% against me
i have hypothyroidism... i understand that low estrogen levels may also decrease thyroid function???

[lil piper]

should i go off anti e??

[tammyp]

ill leave this for leigh or sassy....having thyroid issues certainly complicates things.

[lil piper]

thank you tammy
and thanks for correcting the spelling on arimidex...

[~gymdiva~]

you're welcome :o

[sassy69]

Thyroid really does complicate things. So you've been on nolva for 6 weeks and have another 7 to go? I'd tape off the adex now. That is drying the hell out of your joints. You might see a little rebound from it but you're out far enough that that should even out. Ideally 8 weeks is the max recommended for nolvadex for contest prep, but I think the jump to early menopause brought on by nolva is much longer. I'm going to venture that to keep things simple, you should consider getting off the nolva too and just keep your prep simple. But if you want to stay on the nolva thru your show and then taper off, I don't think it will be "that bad". I can't really speak to any impact on this cyst you have. You might ask your doc about that. And going forward, do more research on nolva relative to a cyst and any other gyno issues you might be dealing w/ before you start another prep with it. And if no issues, then just generally keep the nolva to under 8 weeks going forward.

[lil piper]

thank you so much.
when you say there may be a rebound from quiting arimidex cold turkey ... would it be my brain trying to tell my body to make more estrogen??
i already take 25mcg t3 and 50mcg t4 (prescrided for hypothyroid).... I just started adding t3 (up to 50mcg now)
does nolvadex effect thyroid function??
I will also start hgh 1-2iu daily until the show... i guess i am just not sure if i should keep the nolvadex in??

[lil piper]

does the nolvadex cause down regulation?

[sassy69]

Estrogen rebound is hard to quantify - I would just ramp it down over 1-2 weeks. It seems any sudden change in your hormone profile results in not happy things.

Nolvadex fakes out the receptors of the estrogen process - its not so much "saturating" receptors as it is just occupying the 'docking location' and stopping the process there. If you stop nolva cold, all of a sudden the estrogen process will start up w/ high volume of these 'docking stations' being occupied by the real estrogen processing components and continuing the process. Again, any short-term dramatic change in anything in your body results in a dramatic rebound response.

To keep things simple, I'd drop the adex over the next week - reduce the dose by half until its too small to accurately measure, and then double the time between doses until there's nothing to left to ramp down. This should take about 7-10 days? Then see how you feel after that? Within a couple weeks if you're still having issues, you can decide if you want to drop the nolva. Adex happens to be notorious for drying out your joints and I've not heard the same about nolva, so just dropping that may help w/ the most annoying issues.

[~gymdiva~]

hey sassy, what about the gh she mentioned? any interactions with hypo there?

[sassy69]

hey sassy, what about the gh she mentioned? any interactions with hypo there?


Its always dicey when you're already supplementing w/ thyroid stuff. GH is said to improve thyroid function, so if you're already using a thyroid supplement, the inclusion of GH might actually make it so that supplementation + the improvement in the thyroid function as a result of the GH, could make the prescribed thyroid medication actually 'too much'.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/165211

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Clin Endocrinol Metab.');) 1975 Apr;40(4):612-8.
Reversible hypothyroidism in growth hormone-deficient children treated with human growth hormone.

Lippe BM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Lippe%20BM%22%5BAuthor%5D), Van Herle AJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Van%20Herle%20AJ%22%5BAuthor%5D), LaFranchi SH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22LaFranchi%20SH%22%5BAuthor%5D), Uller RP (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Uller%20RP%22%5BAuthor%5D), Lavin N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Lavin%20N%22%5BAuthor%5D), Kaplan SA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kaplan%20SA%22%5BAuthor%5D).
Abstract

Six children with human growth hormone (hGH) deficiency became hypothyroid during the course of their therapy with hGH. This was accompanied by a decreasing growth rate, clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism and decreased serum T4 concentrations. Three of the 6 patients returned to the euthyroid state, both clinically and biochemically, with cessation of hGH therapy, and reinstitution of hGH precipitated hypothyroidism again in 2 of the three. The patients who remained hypothyroid have evidence of multiple pituitary trophic hormone deficiencies while those who reverted to euthyroidism appear to have isolated hGH deficiency. Evaluation of thyroid function while on hGH showed low T4, free T4 and T3 concentrations. The serum thyrotropin (TSH) response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) was absent or markedly blunted in 4 of 6 patients while receiving long-term hGH therapy but was normal or exaggerated in all patients when tested before or after only 5 days of hGH therapy. These data indicate that exogenous hGH results in an inhibition of the TSH response to TRH. The mechanism of this inhibition is unclear, but we postulate that it may be mediated by somatostatin secretion in response to pulse doses of hGH.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/10/3493

Here's a whole bunch of articles (non PubMed) that also speak to improvements in hypothyrodism during GH therapy:

http://www.google.com/search?q=+hGH+hypothyroid&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

[s2h]

Hello... i hate to ask a questions that has already been answered but I have had no luck getting to the bottom of this...

I do not use any anabolic drugs & I take novadex pre contest...someone mentioned I should add arimidex (.5mg daily) -- to help with the lower body. I took it for 1 1/2 months and felt like total crap...severe fatigue & body/bones pains. I realize now that this was stupid because I am not aromatizing any aa. So I was using both arimidex and nolvadex:hypno:

My question is what are the side effects of stopping arimidex cold turkey?
I resently have been seen by obgyn & have a very large ovarian cyst...
Will stopping impact my progress of the contest diet?? My weight is stuck and I feel like my body is stalling???

Thank you ....lesson1: don't listen to when you hear "someone mention"...your fatigue and pains are because your dried out to all hell...women need and produce more estrogen than men...the nolva/adex is just like putting 5 tires on a 4 wheel vehicle...no use for the nolva if you already inhibited the estrogen with the adex....as far as cold turkey...go ahead and stop....i would be VERY open and honest with your obgyn about your situation....i think the best thing to do is for go any contests and fget your health in-line....and your wieght is stuck or most likely going to go up because you will again begin to produce estrogen and hold some water.....good luck

[sassy69]

lesson1: don't listen to when you hear "someone mention"...your fatigue and pains are because your dried out to all hell...women need and produce more estrogen than men...the nolva/adex is just like putting 5 tires on a 4 wheel vehicle...no use for the nolva if you already inhibited the estrogen with the adex....as far as cold turkey...go ahead and stop....i would be VERY open and honest with your obgyn about your situation....i think the best thing to do is for go any contests and fget your health in-line....and your wieght is stuck or most likely going to go up because you will again begin to produce estrogen and hold some water.....good luck


Why stop cold?

[lil piper]

s2h...
I have already stopped the arimidex... so I totally appreciate the tapering plan- but based on the side effects I made the decision to stop a 10days ago. I feel like a complete idiot (5 tires - 4 wheel vehicle)- I know better than to do this based on the function of these two drugs. I am for sure having a rebound. Weight is up 5lbs with more cardio and reduced calories... i am so pissed at myself.

Doc wants me to go on nuva ring (bc)... he said it will balance out the estrogen in my body with the lowest dosage possible--- he said oral birth control is dosed higher because is has to be metabolized by the liver first.

Just not sure if birth control is right. The ovarian cyst is so painful. I do have a history with cysts. My thought is to let my body go through this rebound - only wonder how long it will last??

[sassy69]

s2h...
I have already stopped the arimidex... so I totally appreciate the tapering plan- but based on the side effects I made the decision to stop a 10days ago. I feel like a complete idiot (5 tires - 4 wheel vehicle)- I know better than to do this based on the function of these two drugs. I am for sure having a rebound. Weight is up 5lbs with more cardio and reduced calories... i am so pissed at myself.

Doc wants me to go on nuva ring (bc)... he said it will balance out the estrogen in my body with the lowest dosage possible--- he said oral birth control is dosed higher because is has to be metabolized by the liver first.

Just not sure if birth control is right. The ovarian cyst is so painful. I do have a history with cysts. My thought is to let my body go through this rebound - only wonder how long it will last??


You should have time to let the water settle. I've used nuvaring and didn't experience any water gain or anything from it. It is very low dose.

[lil piper]

AWESOME...
You know I have never posted on the boards before - but I felt I didn't have anyone to ask these specific questions ... sometimes Doc's just look at you like you are completely crazy .... "why would you want to do ____" so I am always tentative to talk to them.
This has been so helpful and you are all VERY cool.

[sassy69]

Sadly, I had one RN who kept telling me I needed to see a specialist because my BP was high -- despite the fact that it was 8 am and I told her I'd popped a thermo and done an hour of cardio before coming to the office. She didn't know what a "thermo" was.....

[lil piper]

Its amazing... I realize we put our bodies in circumstances that are not deemed "normal"... but it would be fabulous if we had the freedom to ask very important questions about our health without stupidity or JUDGEMENT...

[s2h]

Why stop cold?the adex is most likely causing her bone/joint pain due to it can lead to bone mineral density which could lead to injuries such as bone fractures....

[sassy69]

the adex is most likely causing her bone/joint pain due to it can lead to bone mineral density which could lead to injuries such as bone fractures....


I agree it is the source of the joint pain, but I guess the question I"m looking at is managing estrogen rebound. If she's already been on it, will another couple days spent ramping down make the chance of damage that much worse?

[s2h]

I agree it is the source of the joint pain, but I guess the question I"m looking at is managing estrogen rebound. If she's already been on it, will another couple days spent ramping down make the chance of damage that much worse?no...but it i really think it's not gona make a big difference either way...she's gonna rebound regardless