Does Bikini make the IFBB a joke?

[Zane85]

As the title suggests, is this the end of the IFBB? And bodybuilding?

Will the bikini take over the IFBB because its more mainstream and bodybuilding will be phased out and slimed down to fitness models prancing about?

[wenzel]

is there a arm floats class in a swimming competition ??
is there a stabilizer wheels class at the tour de france ??

[Bryan Hildebrand]

no, because in every gm in this country, someone is trying to get bigger. bigger equates bodybuilding, not prancing.

[tiramisu]

The IFBB is already a joke with it's inability to test athletes for massive drug abuse. Some T&A is just another act for the freak show.

North American bodybuilding has been broken for a long long time and it's not likely to get magically fixed any time soon.

[Zane85]

I mean will bodybuilding as a competition. Not as an activity that will never die.

[GREENMACHINE23]

I mean will bodybuilding as a competition. Not as an activity that will never die.

There will always be bodybuilding competitions.

[GREENMACHINE23]

As the title suggests, is this the end of the IFBB? And bodybuilding?

Will the bikini take over the IFBB because its more mainstream and bodybuilding will be phased out and slimed down to fitness models prancing about?

No.

[the mighty stu]

At risk of offending someone (which will always happen anyway), I just can't take it seriously. Not when the female BBers and figure competitors actually train hard, and diet for months on end... and then some skinny chick with a recent set of implants walks onstage in a bikini, after a couple of weeks in the gym 'training', and gets a pro-card. It's almost disrespectful.

S

[MiamiMadePunk]

The IFBB is already a joke with it's inability to test athletes for massive drug abuse. Some T&A is just another act for the freak show.

North American bodybuilding has been broken for a long long time and it's not likely to get magically fixed any time soon.

It's true the IFBB don't test thier athletes and we don't know if all the bikini girls are natural and we never know if that T&A is really AAS&T&A but all I can tell you is that the bikini division is very scientific if you think about. In bikini, you pretty much have to lose fat in the right places(not a fat spot reduce response) and not get too hard or too soft to win, and now some of the bikini girls are using a keto approach to get rid of a small percentage of body fat in certain areas to balance out the body. Will the bikini division in the IFBB go mainstream, no, the only way the bikini division in the IFBB go mainstream is by drug testing all the athletes by the olympic commitee which requires a lot of money. And if the bikini division goes mainstream and not drug test, we pretty much don't know if getting that physique requires a little AAS and we question ourselves at the beach and wonder if all the guys and girls at the beach are really natural or using AAS to get that physique.

[Rick Prince]

A) Does Bikini make the IFBB a joke? So far, yes. What the judges are awarding to this point is not different than what I have seen at Hooters and Hawaiian bikini contests.

B) As the title suggests, is this the end of the IFBB? No


C) And bodybuilding? No

[Triple-H_2005]

If they start serving hot wings during the Bikini Round, then it won't be a joke. It'll be Hooters, the place this shit belongs to begin with.

[james001]

http://hubpages.com/u/2505066.jpg

http://www.hardbody.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/backbikini.jpg

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB7_2095.jpg

Bikini division is awesome. A w e s o m e. . . :drool:

[Triple-H_2005]

Above, we can see a textbook example of the new "Stand There Like You Want That Fat Cock" mandatory pose in the bikini division.

All they need is a silver pole in the middle of the stage.

[james001]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/190481/d/img_00091272902050.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/190481/d/img_00071272902050.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00251272902051.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00451272902052.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00571272902053.jpg

Just lovely...

[Rick Prince]

Bikini division is awesome. A w e s o m e. . . :drool:

Yep, the girls are awesome and I enjoy looking at them.
But, the bikini division has made the shows longer and if you are a competitor sitting around waiting backstage, it's no fun.

[svtmuscle]

I wonder when it'll come down to the girls wearing straight g-strings and tops that barely cover their nips. jackpott

[james001]

I wonder when it'll come down to the girls wearing straight g-strings

This would be a step in the right direction. No reason to hide those gorgeous glutes with concealing suits.

[james001]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00651272902054.jpg

The bikini division makes me feel good inside, that’s important.

[wenzel]

go to a lap dance bar...
the entrance is cheaper...you see them nude near (very near)...you feel them

[james001]

go to a lap dance bar...
the entrance is cheaper...you see them nude near (very near)...you feel them

Pay to *feel them*? I barbacked in a strip joint many moons ago.. I didn’t pay for a damn thing :no:

Woe to the man that actually throws money at those silly whores, tsk tsk. You must be extremely hard up to do something like that.

[Wheels]

Only in bodybuilding would you have straight men condemning gorgeous, scantily clad women on stage.

@ The Might Stu - You sound like every other average person who has zero knowledge of bodybuilding. Your average person assumes bodybuilding is all drugs. You're assuming that all bikini girls need to do to win a show is get implants and prance around on stage, which is totally preposterous (in a lineup of pros, anyways).

There are plenty of bikini competitors that diet hard and train hard just like everyone else. That being said, is it 'easier' to win a bikini show on genetics alone, debatable. However, many bikini competitors put a lot of effort into their prep. There are some girls who don't take it very seriously but you have that in every division. I can see how bikini might upset some figure/fitness/bbing chkas, but it's here to stay so move on.

[MsGuns]

Bikini will be the mainstream division. It is here to stay and wont be going away.

[Ibarramedia]

http://hubpages.com/u/2505066.jpg

Jessica Lawrence can kick some serious ass. She is also a professional boxer. :ok: :beerbang:

[MsGuns]

Only in bodybuilding would you have straight men condemning gorgeous, scantily clad women on stage.

@ The Might Stu - You sound like every other average person who has zero knowledge of bodybuilding. Your average person assumes bodybuilding is all drugs. You're assuming that all bikini girls need to do to win a show is get implants and prance around on stage, which is totally preposterous (in a lineup of pros, anyways).

There are plenty of bikini competitors that diet hard and train hard just like everyone else. That being said, is it 'easier' to win a bikini show on genetics alone, debatable. However, many bikini competitors put a lot of effort into their prep. There are some girls who don't take it very seriously but you have that in every division. I can see how bikini might upset some figure/fitness/bbing chkas, but it's here to stay so move on.

Amen...I dont get why bikini gurls always get bashed...rx and other websites have posted videos of some hardworking bikini gurls.

[Triple-H_2005]

There are plenty of bikini competitors that diet hard and train hard just like everyone else.

When you compared bikini girls "dieting" and "training" as equivalent to that of a bodybuilder, your opinion instantly took on the decidedly singular scent of a dead raccoon carcass stuffed with curdled cottage cheese and wrapped in a skunk piss-soaked tortilla made of dried buffalo turds.

The above quote wins today's "stupid statement" contest. No one else need enter.

I'm not flaming you boss...just the dumb statement. You're smarter than that.

[Hit-Girl]

Amen...I dont get why bikini gurls always get bashed...rx and other websites have posted videos of some hardworking bikini gurls.
Maybe it is not the girls themselves, but the judging and what they reward. Also if it was a little less slutty that might help too.

[MsGuns]

Maybe it is not the girls themselves, but the judging and what they reward. Also if it was a little less slutty that might help too.

You might wanna reread the posts about the gurls and the numerous threads about the bikini competitors.

Can someone post these slutty lookin bikini gurls? Cause I dont see them like that.

[FIREBLAST]

No, because-BONER.....

[Matt Cena]

No, it doesn't ruin the IFBB or impact bodybuilding. Bikini is what figure was years ago just as figure is what bodybuilding used to be years ago for the women. The bikini competitors will be here for quite some time and I don't see the division going away anytime soon especially when you look at the giant influx of competitors to that division at almost every single show.

[Triple-H_2005]

You might wanna reread the posts about the gurls and the numerous threads about the bikini competitors.

Can someone post these slutty lookin bikini gurls? Cause I dont see them like that.

You're being obtuse...the whole "hit me with some of that doggy style" pose is what he's referring to. Come on, you knew that.

[G-Roy]

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB7_2095.jpg

When do they take their clothes off?

[MsGuns]

You're being obtuse...the whole "hit me with some of that doggy style" pose is what he's referring to. Come on, you knew that.

I dont see anything wrong w/ the bikini division so I dont see it the way yall do. Just my opinion! smile

[G-Roy]

Ive said it before, but wouldnt it only be fair to give men their own fluff category? Lets see mens european cut brief pro. You know, for us guys who dont want to take a ton of juice and just lift recreationally.

[Hit-Girl]

I dont see anything wrong w/ the bikini division so I dont see it the way yall do. Just my opinion! smile
I don't have a problem with it, but compared to figure the bikini girls pose more like they are at a bar.

[Triple-H_2005]

I dont see anything wrong w/ the bikini division so I dont see it the way yall do. Just my opinion! smile

I don't see anything 'wrong' with it, per se...

I just don't think that it belongs on the same stage as people that actually train hard, diet and suffer to compete.

I'm cool with bikini...as long as it stays in the bars, where it belongs.

[Matt Cena]

I don't have a problem with it, but compared to figure the bikini girls pose more like they are at a bar.

Agreed, however, that is how they have been instructed to pose from the judging criteria. They could go through the same mandatory poses that figure does but the judges have directed otherwise.

[Wheels]

When you compared bikini girls "dieting" and "training" as equivalent to that of a bodybuilder, your opinion instantly took on the decidedly singular scent of a dead raccoon carcass stuffed with curdled cottage cheese and wrapped in a skunk piss-soaked tortilla made of dried buffalo turds.

The above quote wins today's "stupid statement" contest. No one else need enter.

I'm not flaming you boss...just the dumb statement. You're smarter than that.

I didn't compare bikini training to bodybuilding. The other divisions need to diet harder, sure, but just because a girl isn't killing herself for a competition doesn't mean she doesn't train hard. The diet aspect is only one aspect, I've seen some bikini girls and their aerobic routines and I doubt any bodybuilder would last through it.

In life, there is plenty of gray scale; your statement seems to look at everything in black and white.

[MsGuns]

I don't see anything 'wrong' with it, per se...

I just don't think that it belongs on the same stage as people that actually train hard, diet and suffer to compete.

I'm cool with bikini...as long as it stays in the bars, where it belongs.

You see a lot of wrong w/ it...Your not cool w/ it bc its not in bars...lol
I get that from all your posts about why bikini doesnt belong...
There are bikini gurls who train hard, diet and suffer to compete...sorry you dont know any of them.
You do not know where these gurls come from.

[Curt James]

Does Bikini make the IFBB a joke?

No.

Bikini makes the NPC and the IFBB...

A MONEY MAKING MACHINE!!!!

:yep:

[Triple-H_2005]

I didn't compare bikini training to bodybuilding. The other divisions need to diet harder, sure, but just because a girl isn't killing herself for a competition doesn't mean she doesn't train hard. The diet aspect is only one aspect, I've seen some bikini girls and their aerobic routines and I doubt any bodybuilder would last through it.

In life, there is plenty of gray scale; your statement seems to look at everything in black and white.

Bro, you said:


There are plenty of bikini competitors that diet hard and train hard just like everyone else.

"just like everyone else" gives their training and status as competitors more credit than is deserved. The bikini "competitor" that does anything approaching what a bodybuilder does to come in ripped condition for a contest.

They don't "train hard", and they belong at Hooters.

[Curt James]

Ive said it before, but wouldnt it only be fair to give men their own fluff category? Lets see mens european cut brief pro. You know, for us guys who dont want to take a ton of juice and just lift recreationally.

heh

NABBA has that.

O. Men's ATHLETIC - Selection Round
Those athletes electing to enter the Athletic will be asked by the judging committee to appear backstage or on stage as a group in posing trunks and without body oil after check-in is completed and before the prejudging of the show begins to determine if their physique meets the criteria of this category. They will be asked to do quarter-turns and perform the same mandatory comparative poses as used in the men's bodybuilding with the omission of a most muscular.

Should the judges determine that an individual does not meet the criteria
of this category and that his physique is too massive for the Athletic, he will be transferred to the Bodybuilding category.

http://www.nabba.com/rules.cfm#d

[Wheels]

Bro, you said:


"just like everyone else" gives their training and status as competitors more credit than is deserved. The bikini "competitor" that does anything approaching what a bodybuilder does to come in ripped condition for a contest.

They don't "train hard", and they belong at Hooters.

Again, you're zeroing on one aspect of what it takes to get ready for a competition.

That being said, you've had this opinion of bikini for as long as I can remember and I can see that no one is going to make you see that there are plenty of bikini competitors that put a ton of effort into what they do.

So, later on bro.

[Triple-H_2005]

Again, you're zeroing on one aspect of what it takes to get ready for a competition.

That being said, you've had this opinion of bikini for as long as I can remember and I can see that no one is going to make you see that there are plenty of bikini competitors that put a ton of effort into what they do.

So, later on bro.

They don't lift as hard.
They don't diet as hard.
They don't do as much/intense cardio.

That's pretty much every aspect of competition prep...more than one aspect.

And yes, I've had this attitude and it's not changing anytime soon.

Skinny, nice ass and fake tits win this "division"...it has not business on an NPC or IFBB stage.

[Curt James]

Bro, you said:


"just like everyone else" gives their training and status as competitors more credit than is deserved. The bikini "competitor" that does anything approaching what a bodybuilder does to come in ripped condition for a contest.

They don't "train hard", and they belong at Hooters.

I'm at least partially familiar with the one Bikini competitor courtesy of BodySpace.
Tabitha Klausen is badass and definitely trains hard.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/Rx/tabithaklausen2007.jpg
2007

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/Rx/tabithaklausenbikini.jpg
2010

From http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/tabitha2686/

Obviously Bikini competitors don't diet as hard, but that's not the same thing, imo.

[Curt James]

this "division"...it has not business on an NPC or IFBB stage.

Hey, is that true that the NPC and the IFBB are non-profits?

Wtf?

I suspect it's not what you meant, but...

Bikini is ALL BU$INE$$.

[Mr.Bones]

only in bodybuilding would you have straight men condemning gorgeous, scantily clad women on stage.

@ the might stu - you sound like every other average person who has zero knowledge of bodybuilding. Your average person assumes bodybuilding is all drugs. You're assuming that all bikini girls need to do to win a show is get implants and prance around on stage, which is totally preposterous (in a lineup of pros, anyways).

There are plenty of bikini competitors that diet hard and train hard just like everyone else. That being said, is it 'easier' to win a bikini show on genetics alone, debatable. However, many bikini competitors put a lot of effort into their prep. There are some girls who don't take it very seriously but you have that in every division. I can see how bikini might upset some figure/fitness/bbing chkas, but it's here to stay so move on.

this.

[Rymdkaviar]

At risk of offending someone (which will always happen anyway), I just can't take it seriously. Not when the female BBers and figure competitors actually train hard, and diet for months on end... and then some skinny chick with a recent set of implants walks onstage in a bikini, after a couple of weeks in the gym 'training', and gets a pro-card. It's almost disrespectful.

S

Agree 100% with ya

I dont even see how you can compete in something like bikini.. Its nothing else but a beauty contest really

[OneWideBack]

Man I have such a crush on Tabitha Klausen, damn she is fine!

[Voland]

As the title suggests, is this the end of the IFBB? And bodybuilding?

Will the bikini take over the IFBB because its more mainstream and bodybuilding will be phased out and slimed down to fitness models prancing about?

Bikini does not make the IFBB a joke since its always been a joke. Seriously Bikini and male category (depending on the line-up)is the only reason i'll ever watch a show. If only Bikini had competent judges...



But, the bikini division has made the shows longer and if you are a competitor sitting around waiting backstage, it's no fun.

Blame Figure and Fitness and their multiple rounds and long routines. Bikini is the fastest category by far they just pose for like 30 secs.

[the mighty stu]

Agree 100% with ya

I dont even see how you can compete in something like bikini.. Its nothing else but a beauty contest really

Exactly. The comment about how my response made it sound like BBing had nothing to with anything but drugs is just stupid (yeah, my having a natural pro card means that I accidentally got big and shredded), I never mentioned the drugs, because I don't care if someone uses or not. I honestly thought more of the serious comptitors on this site would share my views, in light of the fact that they themselves know how hard they must work. Sure you have female figure competitors and female BBers who don't train as hard as others do,.. but to compare overall how much actual 'work' goes into being a female BBer vs a female bikini competitor, and it's not even close. I've known girls who just naturally look amazing in a bikini, and would probably place at an NPC bikini show after a month in the gym and skipping a few of their late night snacks. On the other hand, no one accidentally looks like a bodybuilder or figure girl -lol.

S

[Rymdkaviar]

I've known girls who just naturally look amazing in a bikini, and would probably place at an NPC bikini show after a month in the gym and skipping a few of their late night snacks. On the other hand, no one accidentally looks like a bodybuilder or figure girl -lol.


Great minds think alike, quoted for absolute truth. You can find potential bikini competitors or even winners by walking the streets a sunny day.

I feel like a total hater today. Dont get me wrong - the girls are hot as hell:yep: but it shouldn't be a competitive sport. There's no real achievement. You might as well have been born lucky and just not eaten a lot of crap and perhaps looked at a dumbell.

Not saying these girls dont work out. They probably do. But they dont stand out from a regular everyday person, at least not enough, im my opinion, of course.

[tammyp]

i judged a local show this weekend and a bikini girl did a stripper walk/dance what ever you dare call it and we were told to mark it down. after the show her bf came for feedback and the head judge said she needed to conduct herself in a more respectful manner and tone it wayyyyy down. girls like that are what will hurt it, but if they call it at the regional level, maybe people will take it more seriously. and if you remember figre wasnt all that welcomed when it first started either.

theres room for all of us, no matter what division.

[HammerStrength12]

I think Bikini's stupid, but without the use of drugs, it takes just as much dedication, and that includes training/diet etc to look like a bikini competitor as it does a figure comp or bodybuilder. They work just as hard as everyone else

[HammerStrength12]

Also the INBF and NGA have bikini too...

[Die4Mass]

At risk of offending someone (which will always happen anyway), I just can't take it seriously. Not when the female BBers and figure competitors actually train hard, and diet for months on end... and then some skinny chick with a recent set of implants walks onstage in a bikini, after a couple of weeks in the gym 'training', and gets a pro-card. It's almost disrespectful.

S

disagree completely with you..... its great for the sport imo. i look forward to it actually, a slight change of pace during the course of the show. yes i know they dont have to train or diet like a figure girl but, its entertainment and has the possibilty to bring in a bigger audience esp at local shows.

[Triple-H_2005]

Hey, is that true that the NPC and the IFBB are non-profits?

Wtf?

I suspect it's not what you meant, but...

Bikini is ALL BU$INE$$.


You know precisely what I meant, stop trying to be clever. It's T&A that belongs in Hooters.

And those of you that continue to contend that bikini chicks train and diet as hard as bodybuilders and fitness/figure, you're insane. Either that, or you have NO idea what it means to train hard.

My God in Heaven...why is this so hard to get?

[JillyRev]

i judged a local show this weekend and a bikini girl did a stripper walk/dance what ever you dare call it and we were told to mark it down. after the show her bf came for feedback and the head judge said she needed to conduct herself in a more respectful manner and tone it wayyyyy down. girls like that are what will hurt it, but if they call it at the regional level, maybe people will take it more seriously. and if you remember figre wasnt all that welcomed when it first started either.

theres room for all of us, no matter what division.

At first i thought Bikini was a joke, but i actually dont mind it... i was at the NY Pro, and this was the first Bikini Pro show i had seen, and i actally thought for the most part everyone did a great job. now i do agree that some people take it too far, but a lot of people think certain BBers take their posing too far too...


I agree that at the local level is where we need to correct and guide these girls in the right direction. but if i do recall correctly, at a recent local show i attended, the girl thar won was the most inaproppriate... so if judges are going to reward those actions we cant really complain about it...

[LisaRD23]

I have mixed feels about Bikini and my feelings really vary between show to show and the competitors that take the stage on the given day. I have seen girls who looked like they just had margarita's the night before and other girls who looked really good, with muscle definition.

Honestly, if Bikini were presented about 3 years ago when I first started getting really serious about living a BB life style, I probally would've enteres a show to compete and have the Figure stage as a future goal. In some cases I still see Bikini as "Figure Light". Prehaps if that was incorporated it would change things a bit.

The presentation is what throws bikini off. I would like to see a bit more class in posing, and prehaps mandatory suit styles.

[ob205]

It's just another brilliant idea to exploit women, financially and sexually. I like the look and I could care less how the NPC/IFBB makes its money, it just shows how much they care about the integrity of the industry. Now, let's all go buy those Joe Weider ANABOLIC mega paks!

[Ross Erstling]

The Bikini category is the GREATEST thing to haapen in the bodybuilding world in a very long time!

Bodybuilding, by definition, is to create a beautiful physique. For men, that means enhanced masculinity, but for females, it means enhanced femininity. These women have gorgeous bodies that should set the standard for female beauty..

Unfortunately, men's bodybuilding is no longer about creating a beautiful physique, just a massively muscular physique. I'd be happy to see a MEN'S BIKINI category LOL, where points are taken off for a distended belly and the VACUUM pose is mandatory. ;)

[beezy13]

What I don't understand is what bikini has to do with the other divisions and why the other divisions are so upset? They have nothing to so with each other. bikini is just that bikini. Figure, fitness etc constist of females workign hard, lifting dieting and really trying to improve themselves(which they did before bikini division began) so how does that in any way affect them. Other than a few girls get on stage first and the figure-fitness-Fbb girls have to wait for them to finish. Nobody is comparing bikini to FBB or saying they are the same or take the effort to compete in. Jsut take bikini for what it is (chicks in bikinis) look at them and them get up on stage and show everyone all the hard work you put it. Male BBers are mad at the male models or the naturals division or guys who use synthol (usually they just laugh at them). Just relax look the the girls and keep working out.

[HammerStrength12]

The Bikini category is the GREATEST thing to haapen in the bodybuilding world in a very long time!

Bodybuilding, by definition, is to create a beautiful physique. For men, that means enhanced masculinity, but for females, it means enhanced femininity. These women have gorgeous bodies that should set the standard for female beauty..

Unfortunately, men's bodybuilding is no longer about creating a beautiful physique, just a massively muscular physique. I'd be happy to see a MEN'S BIKINI category LOL, where points are taken off for a distended belly and the VACUUM pose is mandatory. ;)

I'd love to see Jay or Kai try to do a vacuum LOL

[HammerStrength12]

You know precisely what I meant, stop trying to be clever. It's T&A that belongs in Hooters.

And those of you that continue to contend that bikini chicks train and diet as hard as bodybuilders and fitness/figure, you're insane. Either that, or you have NO idea what it means to train hard.

My God in Heaven...why is this so hard to get?

I agree it belongs in hooters but, you have to realize that its IMMENSELY harder for women to maintain a good figure than men, especially as they get older. Just look at the average person you run into on the street. To be competitive in the bikini division, you have to eat clean all the time, train hard, and that includes lifting heavy ass weights, do your cardio, sleep well, etc... Most of my bodybuilder friends eat fucking burger king in the offseason. Girls can't get away with this if they're not on any drugs. Now SOME may be blessed with freakish genetics, but for most women I'm sure that isn't the case. Lift heavy+train hard+cardio+clean diet year round+watching EVERYTHING you eat = bikini model body

["COMPETITOR169"]

It's all about the money. And guess what the bikini competitors are going to be more mainstream then any other female division in the NPC/IFBB. They are the most marketable and that is just going to make them more money and more exposure. I enjoy watching the bikini pros over figure any day... not talking figure women down but bikini is not as time consuming and the girls look just as great.

[Ross Erstling]

It's all about the money. And guess what the bikini competitors are going to be more mainstream then any other female division in the NPC/IFBB. They are the most marketable and that is just going to make them more money and more exposure. I enjoy watching the bikini pros over figure any day... not talking figure women down but bikini is not as time consuming and the girls look just as great.

Bikini is awesome, I am a huge fan. These bitches are HOTTTT

[GUNNER]

No.

Bikini makes the NPC and the IFBB...

A MONEY MAKING MACHINE!!![/SIZE]

:yep:


It's probably helping to increase revenues that's for sure. It also, as some people have suggested, brings with it a tad bit more mainstream appeal.

I think for those two reasons it's here to stay regardless.

[Voland]

It's just another brilliant idea to exploit women, financially and sexually. I like the look and I could care less how the NPC/IFBB makes its money, it just shows how much they care about the integrity of the industry. Now, let's all go buy those Joe Weider ANABOLIC mega paks!

I don't feel sorry for those women at all. They stand up in that stage and they feel like queens for a couple minutes; cameras, flash, cheering audience...Only the ugly ones/the ones who place poorly AND deserve it will complain about how exploited they feel.

The industry had never had any integrity so no need to worry about that.

Hail Bikini! :cool:

[sassy69]

Bikini is awesome, I am a huge fan. These bitches are HOTTTT

I'm so glad you're showing so much respect for athletic competitors within the competitive physique environment.


Bikini exists because it lowers barriers to entry for female competitors, while increasing the T&A aspect for all the male competitors & male audience. Its all about money babe.

And for all the shit about building physiques and all this that the Bikini competitors talk about - altho they aren't putting in the off-season time to build mass to compete in Figure or BB, they are still dedicated to the lifestyle, train hard & diet hard - I don't think I have ever seen any Bikini competitor post on RX or any other board about all the work they put into their contest prep so they can be called "HOT BITCHES".

Is that what you yell right before you throw a $20 on stage too?

[Carolyn Bryant]

There ya'll go bashing pretty, sexy, smokin hawt women again. Geez. Some of us have degrees, with real jobs and know how to work a pole. HATERZ!!!!!

[sassy69]

There ya'll go bashing pretty, sexy, smokin hawt women again. Geez. Some of us have degrees, with real jobs and know how to work a pole. HATERZ!!!!!


I agree we all want to be treated as legitimately equal competitors, but all that is really being acknowledged here is "abilty to work a pole'.. no one is really caring about the rest. At least based on Ross' above post. He was initially stating in an earlier post that "bodybuilding" is about creating a beautiful body (I'd argue that definition myself) where women are supposed to be pursuing the ultimately in femininity or whatever .. but at the end of the day, you're either a hot bitch or you aren't.

[Ross Erstling]

I'm so glad you're showing so much respect for athletic competitors within the competitive physique environment.


Bikini exists because it lowers barriers to entry for female competitors, while increasing the T&A aspect for all the male competitors & male audience. Its all about money babe.

And for all the shit about building physiques and all this that the Bikini competitors talk about - altho they aren't putting in the off-season time to build mass to compete in Figure or BB, they are still dedicated to the lifestyle, train hard & diet hard - I don't think I have ever seen any Bikini competitor post on RX or any other board about all the work they put into their contest prep so they can be called "HOT BITCHES".

Is that what you yell right before you throw a $20 on stage too?

Building MUSCLE is only ONE aspect of bodybuilding! Constructing a beautiful physique requires a focus on BALANCE, PROPORTION, SYMMETRY, TONE/DEFINITION and most of all, low levels of bodyfat. That's why there are different classes of bodybuilding, all with different goals and different LOOKS.

The bikini girls have to work extremely hard to maintain such an athletic, lean, and shapely physique. They are also blessed with great genetics, and should be rewarded for that. The bikini girls truly represent the ideal of female physical beauty.

[sassy69]

Building MUSCLE is only ONE aspect of bodybuilding! Constructing a beautiful physique requires a focus on BALANCE, PROPORTION, SYMMETRY, TONE/DEFINITION and most of all, low levels of bodyfat. That's why there are different classes of bodybuilding, all with different goals and different LOOKS.

The bikini girls have to work extremely hard to maintain such an athletic, lean, and shapely physique. They are also blessed with great genetics, and should be rewarded for that. The bikini girls truly represent the ideal of female physical beauty.

Dude, get a grip. Its all about low barriers to entry and cash.

[Nitro Fueled Barbie/Mel Marx]

As the title suggests, is this the end of the IFBB? And bodybuilding?

Will the bikini take over the IFBB because its more mainstream and bodybuilding will be phased out and slimed down to fitness models prancing about?

That's a good question.....Bikini May mess up the women's bbing but it won't affect the men......

[Tre]

This thread is purely homosexual.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

Embrace the bikini girls, gentlefolks...cuz you might find that they'll give you better prices on your gear than the figure girls will. :p

[~gymdiva~]

:lmao: omg Tre you always crack me up....

[dilatedmuscle]

no, because in every gm in this country, someone is trying to get bigger. bigger equates bodybuilding, not prancing.


Who says Bodybuilding and Prancing cannot go along together? kai manages to do so. :P

[Ross Erstling]

Dude, get a grip. Its all about low barriers to entry and cash.

All of you other women must feel extremely threatened by these gorgeous bikini girls--I get it. Having said that, each category is DIFFERENT, and many of the female bodybuilders don't necessarily care about being "attractive" they care about being "built". So for them, there is an appropriate category.

For the women trying to illustrate another aspect of female bodybuilding, the bikini category is perfect.

[The Big Sexy]

These damn bikini girls need more carbs...

[sassy69]

All of you other women must feel extremely threatened by these gorgeous bikini girls--I get it. Having said that, each category is DIFFERENT, and many of the female bodybuilders don't necessarily care about being "attractive" they care about being "built". So for them, there is an appropriate category.

For the women trying to illustrate another aspect of female bodybuilding, the bikini category is perfect.


Ross you're all over the place. You spent a couple of paragraphs telling me about all the hard work & genetics and deserve to be rewarded (I think some call this a Beautiy Pageant and they offer scholarships, whereas the NPC offers Pro Cards). And then you went on to say those "BITCHES" are "HOT". And now the whole rest of the women's physique community must be jealous?

At the end of the day Bikini exists because the federations are looking for a revenue source. Keep it real dude. For argument purposes you want to make it all about how Bikini competitors are the only women who deserve to be "rewarded" (tho we've managed to survive at least since 1980 in the NPC without them), but for YOUR purposes they are "hot bitches', and for everyone else who spends time in the gym, we're jealous. But the reality is its a revenue source and if you try to make it anything other than that, you're just talking out your ass. The whole area of women's sports in general is all about "hot bitches" to the male audience, to the women who seek to compete in whatever sport, they do it because they love it & have passion for it and want to excel (wow, much like the guys in those sports, holy shit.. a parallel.. but they still get judged on how much a hot bitch they are).

There's no high horse to climb onto here.

[sassy69]

To the OP - doesn't all of this go to what is the definition of the IFBB?

[The Big Sexy]

Ross you're all over the place. You spent a couple of paragraphs telling me about all the hard work & genetics and deserve to be rewarded (I think some call this a Beautiy Pageant and they offer scholarships, whereas the NPC offers Pro Cards). And then you went on to say those "BITCHES" are "HOT". And now the whole rest of the women's physique community must be jealous?

At the end of the day Bikini exists because the federations are looking for a revenue source. Keep it real dude. For argument purposes you want to make it all about how Bikini competitors are the only women who deserve to be "rewarded" (tho we've managed to survive at least since 1980 in the NPC without them), but for YOUR purposes they are "hot bitches', and for everyone else who spends time in the gym, we're jealous. But the reality is its a revenue source and if you try to make it anything other than that, you're just talking out your ass. The whole area of women's sports in general is all about "hot bitches" to the male audience, to the women who seek to compete in whatever sport, they do it because they love it & have passion for it and want to excel (wow, much like the guys in those sports, holy shit.. a parallel.. but they still get judged on how much a hot bitch they are).

There's no high horse to climb onto here.

Bam... end of story. thread. match. set. point.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

To the orginal question. Of course not. Does it DILLUTE it? hell yeah.

[Tre]

Ross you're all over the place. You spent a couple of paragraphs telling me about all the hard work & genetics and deserve to be rewarded (I think some call this a Beautiy Pageant and they offer scholarships, whereas the NPC offers Pro Cards). And then you went on to say those "BITCHES" are "HOT". And now the whole rest of the women's physique community must be jealous?

At the end of the day Bikini exists because the federations are looking for a revenue source. Keep it real dude. For argument purposes you want to make it all about how Bikini competitors are the only women who deserve to be "rewarded" (tho we've managed to survive at least since 1980 in the NPC without them), but for YOUR purposes they are "hot bitches', and for everyone else who spends time in the gym, we're jealous. But the reality is its a revenue source and if you try to make it anything other than that, you're just talking out your ass. The whole area of women's sports in general is all about "hot bitches" to the male audience, to the women who seek to compete in whatever sport, they do it because they love it & have passion for it and want to excel (wow, much like the guys in those sports, holy shit.. a parallel.. but they still get judged on how much a hot bitch they are).

There's no high horse to climb onto here.

Ross will not recover.

[MisterSweden]

I have never wanted to go to a bodybuilding competition before they added the bikini division. Now I can't wait to go to a show :p

[MsGuns]

At first i thought Bikini was a joke, but i actually dont mind it... i was at the NY Pro, and this was the first Bikini Pro show i had seen, and i actally thought for the most part everyone did a great job. now i do agree that some people take it too far, but a lot of people think certain BBers take their posing too far too...


I agree that at the local level is where we need to correct and guide these girls in the right direction. but if i do recall correctly, at a recent local show i attended, the girl thar won was the most inaproppriate... so if judges are going to reward those actions we cant really complain about it...

So true!

[james001]

I just don't think that it belongs on the same stage as people that actually train hard, diet and suffer to compete.

I'm cool with bikini...as long as it stays in the bars, where it belongs.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00571272902053.jpg

Listen to this guy… these women devote a large chunk of their lives to preparing for these comps. Its a lot of work, don’t think otherwise.

They are also the best representation of female physique enhancement. They are healthy, fit, muscular and retain every bit of their femininity. They actually appeal to a mainstream audience.

Women see the bikini look as something desirable, something they would like to emulate. Men can appreciate the form and function and find them physically attractive at the same time.

They deserve to be up on that stage just as much as anyone else.. and it’s a good thing they are.

[HammerStrength12]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00571272902053.jpg

Listen to this guy… these women devote a large chunk of their lives to preparing for these comps. Its a lot of work, don’t think otherwise.

They are also the best representation of female physique enhancement. They are healthy, fit, muscular and retain every bit of their femininity. They actually appeal to a mainstream audience.

Women see the bikini look as something desirable, something they would like to emulate. Men can appreciate the form and function and find them physically attractive at the same time.

They deserve to be up on that stage just as much as anyone else.. and it’s a good thing they are.


Yep. Bikini = natural bodybuilding (in theory)

As for Ross, I think he's making a legit point. I don't get all the bashing. What's wrong with appreciating some t&a every now and then, every girl wants guys to think they're "hot bitches." Every dude wants every chick to think he's a sexy mofo lol. Seriously though, the hot bitches aside, I agree with wut hes sayin. These girls look great and work hard as hell.

[sassy69]

Yep. Bikini = natural bodybuilding (in theory)

As for Ross, I think he's making a legit point. I don't get all the bashing. What's wrong with appreciating some t&a every now and then, every girl wants guys to think they're "hot bitches." Every dude wants every chick to think he's a sexy mofo lol. Seriously though, the hot bitches aside, I agree with wut hes sayin. These girls look great and work hard as hell.


Seriously - show me one post from a Bikini competitor who wants to be judged as a "hot bitch".

I wouldn't call Bikini " natural bodybuilding" because NO MUSCLE is the criteria. If you wanted to go there you might call it natural crossfit or natural high cardio or something.

[HammerStrength12]

Seriously - show me one post from a Bikini competitor who wants to be judged as a "hot bitch".

I wouldn't call Bikini " natural bodybuilding" because NO MUSCLE is the criteria. If you wanted to go there you might call it natural crossfit or natural high cardio or something.


Nobody's saying we should judge them on whether they're a hot bitch or not. He's just saying that those girls are "very beautiful women" (if that phrase is more to your liking lol). Doesn't have anything to do with the judging criteria, he was just point out that they're attractive.

Sure there's no muscle requirement in the criteria, but c'mon. Do you really think there's no implicit muscle requirement? Those girls in the picture above are FAR more muscular than the girls you see in bikini competitions at bars, hooters, and hawaii tropic. My guess is that the IFBB's just saying they don't want muscle because they don't want bikini going in the same direction as figure - where you'd have 23 year old girls who were twice as muscular as high school linebackers. Of course muscularity isn't the only component, but they're obviously not gonna give the trophy to a girl with no muscle.

And I say it's natural bodybuilding because to get a body like that, you have to train heavy and dedicate yourself 24/7 to the sport if you choose not to use drugs. Heavy lifting +proper diet + minimal drinking/partying +sleeping ... Sounds a lot like bodybuilding to me. I consider bodybuilding a lifestyle, not a particular look, so that's why I made that claim

[james001]

Seriously - show me one post from a Bikini competitor who wants to be judged as a "hot bitch".

Every women would like to be considered hot/attractive, seriously.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/190481/d/img_00071272902050.jpg


I wouldn't call Bikini " natural bodybuilding" because NO MUSCLE is the criteria. If you wanted to go there you might call it natural crossfit or natural high cardio or something.

Call it whatever you like - this is just about as much muscle as any normal man/woman wants to see. This look has mass appeal. They train for that muscle.. its *bodybuilding*.

[matt1005]

I don't think it ruins anything, but I think it now makes it more important to reward the figure girls that are actually in condition, not like the current figure Olympia.

[sassy69]

Every women would like to be considered hot/attractive, seriously.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/190481/d/img_00071272902050.jpg



Call it whatever you like - this is just about as much muscle as any normal man/woman wants to see. This look has mass appeal. They train for that muscle.. its *bodybuilding*.


I'm sorry, when was anything about the IFBB about "mass appeal" and "normal"?

I think y'all would be using all the same arguments if this was 1999 and Figure was just starting to show up.

All of this is BS. This category exists because it is currently popular, it has lower barriers to entry and brings in more buckage.

Seriously - is the NFL handing out SuperBowl rings to Pop Warner players because they're cute little kids and that works for "mass appeal" for most "normal people"?

[james001]

I'm sorry, when was anything about the IFBB about "mass appeal" and "normal"?

About the time they introduced the bikini division…



All of this is BS. This category exists because it is currently popular, it has lower barriers to entry and brings in more buckage.

The bikini look is something that transcends outside of our little subculture. I wouldn’t call that *BS*... I would call that *the future*.

[sassy69]

About the time they introduced the bikini division…




The bikini look is something that transcends outside of our little subculture. I wouldn’t call that *BS*... I would call that *the future*.


So I guess the last 64 yrs the IFBB has been in existence has just been .. wrong? And they're just figuring it out now?

Based on your analysis, t looks like they are nailing it then - as the new Mens' Swimsuit category probably has higher mass appeal than the Jay Cutlers of the world as well.

http://i45.tinypic.com/121zplf.jpg

[Curt James]

Dude, get a grip. Its all about low barriers to entry and cash.

It's about cash. Period.

If there were 1,000 women lining up to compete in bodybuilding then this conversation wouldn't be taking place.


Man I have such a crush on Tabitha Klausen, damn she is fine!

Enjoy your crush.

She's married, though.


You know precisely what I meant, stop trying to be clever. It's T&A that belongs in Hooters.

And those of you that continue to contend that bikini chicks train and diet as hard as bodybuilders and fitness/figure, you're insane. Either that, or you have NO idea what it means to train hard.

My God in Heaven...why is this so hard to get?

I don't even know what you said. What did you say? All I know is that you're complaining a lot.

Regardless, no one is judged on how hard they train. It comes down to the perfect combination of structure, condition, shape, size, and presentation for all the divisions.


I have mixed feels about Bikini and my feelings really vary between show to show and the competitors that take the stage on the given day. I have seen girls who looked like they just had margarita's the night before and other girls who looked really good, with muscle definition.
(snip)

The presentation is what throws bikini off. I would like to see a bit more class in posing, and prehaps mandatory suit styles.

This.

Although obviously there will always be the contingent of fans (and judges) who prefer the stripper/slut approach.


It's just another brilliant idea to exploit women, financially and sexually. I like the look and I could care less how the NPC/IFBB makes its money, it just shows how much they care about the integrity of the industry.

Debatable. If women participate then I find it difficult to call it exploitation. And define integrity.

integrity n. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.

What is the goal of the NPC/IFBB? If it's to make money then Bikini in no way impairs that goal.

[Rich Piana]

Above, we can see a textbook example of the new "Stand There Like You Want That Fat Cock" mandatory pose in the bikini division.

All they need is a silver pole in the middle of the stage.WOW! its obvious you have a problem with beautiful women and thats fine thats your problem. Ya the last thing in the world I want to do is look at beautiful women, i would rather stare at men with shaved legs and almost g-strings. i enjoy bodybuilding but its nice to see some women with what I call incredible physiques. Also you cant judge how someone trains by how big they are. ive known plenty of people who train drug free very very hard and by looking at them you wouldnt think so, also people who dont train hard and look incredible because of genetics. Now could I say I train harder than you? No I have no idea how hard you train. I train about 45 min to an hour a day and I know alot of girls who train 2-3 hours a day. My diet is ok and again I know girls who diet very strict year round. You dont know how hard these girls train unless your in the gym with them everyday. Your problem is very clear and I wouldnt usually call it a problem because most of the gay men I know can still appreciate a beautiful woman. These girls look incredible and work hard if they didnt there would be alot more women walking around looking like that which I never see. ever!

[james001]

Based on your analysis, t looks like they are nailing it then - as the new Mens' Swimsuit category probably has higher mass appeal than the Jay Cutlers of the world as well.

LOL... That would not surprise me. Then again, fly fishing probably has higher mass appeal than the Jay Cutlers of the world.

The women in particular, this *bikini look* - will take off like a rocket, me thinks. Time will tell.

I'll be on my way now.. I've got pecs to pump.

[Curt James]

So I guess the last 64 yrs the IFBB has been in existence has just been .. wrong? And they're just figuring it out now?

Based on your analysis, t looks like they are nailing it then - as the new Mens' Swimsuit category probably has higher mass appeal than the Jay Cutlers of the world as well.

http://i45.tinypic.com/121zplf.jpg

The men shown in that pic are what many of the athletes looked like 64 years ago.

http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/halloffame/AlanStephan1.jpg
Alan Stephan, 1946 AAU Mr. America

All they're figuring out is how easy it is to sell NPC memberships and tickets to shows where Bikini is a feature attraction. I am not looking to see female bodybuilding or Figure go away, however. I didn't film one video of Bikini competition at the NY Pro.

[Mr.Bones]

IF ANYTHING, Figure makes the IFBB look bad. It's just super scaled down bodybuilding.

And before Bikini came around, Figure competitors were still judged on how sexy they were to an extent.

But now Bikini is giving what everyone WANTS! SOME fine women in what used to be a sausage fest!

[Triple-H_2005]

WOW! its obvious you have a problem with beautiful women and thats fine thats your problem.

WOW! Its obvious that you have a problem reading more than one post. I don't think they deserve to be on an NPC/IFBB stage, and I don't want my contest day made even longer so hornballs in the audience can get new material for the spank bank.

I LOVE hot women, but this shit belongs in a bar, not in the IFBB/NPC.

I wonder how many of you with your noses up the stripper's asses will give the same vociferous support to MEN'S swimsuit?

I'm sure hypocrisy will be in fine fashion before very long...

[Ross Erstling]

OK, time to keep it REAL...

Men don't like extremely MUSCULAR women--PERIOD. Female bodybuilding has become regarded as a FREAK SHOW, and outside of our little bodybuilding community, no one would ever desire to look like that.

I happen to agree with you that a "Men's Classic" category would be a very wise addition to the IFBB, most men DO NOT want to look like Jay Cutler, and NO WOMEN finds that attractive. Men should aim to look more like bodybuilders of the 70's-80's, Zane, Arnold, Nubret, and even guys like Steve Reeves.

The Bikini girls work DAMN HARD to look sexy; they are chiseled, lean, and extremely well balanced. Any girl that expresses disdain is simply JEALOUS--PERIOD!

[hifrommike65]

Bikini is here to stay. It will evolve, just as women's bodybuilding did (in the '80s, mixed pairs were big but now there's very little of it, almost none in the NPC), & just like figure did. In some ways figure women have been shifted a little closer to women bodybuilders, because the model look is more suited to bikini. If any women's division is on the way out, it's more likely to be fitness. It's very hard to do, there is little longevity to it (no one can keep it up for all that long--there is no masters fitness), & it takes a lot of time onstage. Although bikini is crowded, there are really no routines--just brief turns & then comparisons. A good promoter can pace the women's events effectively. If the pacing is off, don't blame the bikini women--blame the promoters.

Notice I didn't use the word "girl" once in my discussion of either bikini or figure. It can be done.

[Rich Piana]

WOW! Its obvious that you have a problem reading more than one post. I don't think they deserve to be on an NPC/IFBB stage, and I don't want my contest day made even longer so hornballs in the audience can get new material for the spank bank.

I LOVE hot women, but this shit belongs in a bar, not in the IFBB/NPC.

I wonder how many of you with your noses up the stripper's asses will give the same vociferous support to MEN'S swimsuit?

I'm sure hypocrisy will be in fine fashion before very long...Its about men with great bodies and women with great bodies that both work hard to achieve what they feel is perfect and I have to say those girls are perfect in my book and I can look at them all day long. There is NO comparison of the bikini girls and strippers, not even close. I know alot of pro bodybuilders that dont train as hard as you think and like I said I know alot of girls who bust there ass in the gym. Do a set of 8-10 reps then rest 2 min then go to all you can eat sushi then take a nap, wow thats intense! Maybe you train super hard lots of drop sets little rest between sets 3-4 hours a day 12 meals a day all food no shakes all healthy food if so thats great. But alot of these girls train hard also stepmill for an hour on level 12 skipping steps the whole time which I couldnt do if my life depended on it. For me training hard is the easy part doing real cardio and super strict diet is the hard part.point is they look fantastic and why put them down for there accomplishments. Anyway I have no problem with beautiful women with incredible physiques, peace bro

[Lann1011]

OK, time to keep it REAL...

Men don't like extremely MUSCULAR women--PERIOD. Female bodybuilding has become regarded as a FREAK SHOW, and outside of our little bodybuilding community, no one would ever desire to look like that.

I happen to agree with you that a "Men's Classic" category would be a very wise addition to the IFBB, most men DO NOT want to look like Jay Cutler, and NO WOMEN finds that attractive. Men should aim to look more like bodybuilders of the 70's-80's, Zane, Arnold, Nubret, and even guys like Steve Reeves.

The Bikini girls work DAMN HARD to look sexy; they are chiseled, lean, and extremely well balanced. Any girl that expresses disdain is simply JEALOUS--PERIOD!



HEY Russ...stop trying to voice what YOU THINK is your opinion of what MEN like in a woman.. it is stupid, and you have no idea what men want. You know what you like, and most people on this board really don't care WHAT you think.. The more posts I read from you, the more I think you should post LESS.

Saying that men do not like Muscular women is JUST like all those TMZ dipshits saying that ALL women do not like Jay Culter or HUGE muscle men. Well, I am a woman and I do.. They were wrong for saying it, and so are you.

If you are so put off of muscular women, then why BE On a BODYBUILDING site that caters to men, women, figure and fitness atheletes??? Isn't there a Victoria's Secret fan site or a Hooters girl web page you can go to?

Lastly, I think that you voicing your opinion AGAIN AND AGAIN is not the smartest thing to do as you are "Owner of Supreme Sports Enhancements".

Way to go CEO, would you like to completely alienate any more potential FEMALE customers who may have wanted to buy your product, and now think you are a total douche bag? Do you see ALR bashing women bodybuilders? Do you see Rich Gaspari posting that muscles on women are not attractive???

[AnneP]

There is simply no need for bikini class. "To get it ALL easier"-divison, whats the point?

First of all, the conditioning and size required in figure is not that extreme. To be honest, looking Nicole Wilkins (whose lines and structure I do love though and whose Figure International 2008 look I really LOVED) , definition, details and size needed is nearly nill. When the bikini divison came, they said its good to have division for them who cannot get muscular and conditioned. Excuse me? Since when its been needed to have "untalented"-division in sports? They dont do such in other sports. Over 13 secs division in 100m run? Specially in PRO LEAGUE?! Even if it would be difficult for some girls to gain a bit muscles and get "conditioned" (which is not even extreme in figure), they could work for it a few years and do then figure... why why why why they need to get it all immediately? Where that attitude comes from?

Then they said bikini division is a good start and girls then can move to figure. Yeh, but in that case, why is pro league needed? And why girls cannot start in figure placing a bit low , where in hell comes this attitude everyone should be able to turn pro during first year of competing .. SICK.

Sure these bikini girls look hot and fuckable and beautiful, but simply does not belong on stage of NPC / IFBB. Besides, when you watch these shows ... it is obvious they are not comparing physiques. How can you even compare the girls when they are all standing in a different way in comparisons AND they have hair covering whole back/ delt area. It is just retarded. It s not about physiques and when it is not, I dont get why it is under NPC/ IFBB.

I really cant say I would have any respect to these girls as athletes when they tell how they are prepping for Bikini Olympia, Bikini International... usually those stages have been something only for best of the very bests.. for true athletes who have been working for it for tens of years and then comes a bikini girls telling she hates veins and muscles and she has been lifting a bit for a while and during the first year goes to the big O.

Maybe I am just way too old school. But I simply just dont see anything of being "pro athlete" or even being an athlete in a physique sport in these girls. Yes, I gotta admit they are good at making "Oh do me" - poses on stage but .. hmm.. does there have to be an pro sport league for it?

Yes, the pro league in bikini is a huge joke.

In my opinion, it should not be about what men want and what women want, this is and should be sport............

Huoh.

[AnneP]

Hmmm jaleous... I actually admired Jelena Abbou in figure, I think she looked phenomenal during figure days (ok, skinny legs) but I cant say same of her figure look (although, if there was any sense at all in bikini, she would have done better at NY). Jaleous? - rather of her figure look!

[Voland]

HEY Russ...stop trying to voice what YOU THINK is your opinion of what MEN like in a woman.. it is stupid, and you have no idea what men want. You know what you like, and most people on this board really don't care WHAT you think.. The more posts I read from you, the more I think you should post LESS.

Saying that men do not like Muscular women is JUST like all those TMZ dipshits saying that ALL women do not like Jay Culter or HUGE muscle men. Well, I am a woman and I do.. They were wrong for saying it, and so are you.

If you are so put off of muscular women, then why BE On a BODYBUILDING site that caters to men, women, figure and fitness atheletes??? Isn't there a Victoria's Secret fan site or a Hooters girl web page you can go to?

Lastly, I think that you voicing your opinion AGAIN AND AGAIN is not the smartest thing to do as you are "Owner of Supreme Sports Enhancements".

Way to go CEO, would you like to completely alienate any more potential FEMALE customers who may have wanted to buy your product, and now think you are a total douche bag? Do you see ALR bashing women bodybuilders? Do you see Rich Gaspari posting that muscles on women are not attractive???

Yet when it comes to sponsoring he chooses...Ava Cowan, Marzia Price, Tanji, Stacey Thompson, Crissy Chin, Erin Riley, Trish Warren and Cathy Le Francois (the exception to the whole team Gaspari and prolly one of the few Fbbers that still has some degree of femininity).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/371824853_b40016a188_m.jpg:p

[Lann1011]

Yet when it comes to sponsoring he chooses...Ava Cowan, Marzia Price, Tanji, Stacey Thompson, Crissy Chin, Erin Riley, Trish Warren and Cathy Le Francois (the exception to the whole team Gaspari and prolly one of the few Fbbers that still has some degree of femininity).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/371824853_b40016a188_m.jpg:p


Marzia does not work for them anymore, I do not think.. and everyone you named does have muscle!! They are not soft.. they have nice, firm, muscle. not just skinny,. especially Ava, Crissy, Erin and Trish.. Thank you for proving my point.

[tight booty]

OK, time to keep it REAL...

Men don't like extremely MUSCULAR women--PERIOD. Female bodybuilding has become regarded as a FREAK SHOW, and outside of our little bodybuilding community, no one would ever desire to look like that.

I happen to agree with you that a "Men's Classic" category would be a very wise addition to the IFBB, most men DO NOT want to look like Jay Cutler, and NO WOMEN finds that attractive. Men should aim to look more like bodybuilders of the 70's-80's, Zane, Arnold, Nubret, and even guys like Steve Reeves.

The Bikini girls work DAMN HARD to look sexy; they are chiseled, lean, and extremely well balanced. Any girl that expresses disdain is simply JEALOUS--PERIOD!
I find Jay Cutler attractive, although I also think Steve Reeves was very attractive! I think you are forgetting that comparing all women is just wrong because most women who work out and appreciate the work that goes into bodybuilding, do find musclar men attractive. The women you are referring to, are mostly cough potatoes/sedantry!

[Voland]

Marzia does not work for them anymore, I do not think.. and everyone you named does have muscle!! They are not soft.. they have nice, firm, muscle. not just skinny,. especially Ava, Crissy, Erin and Trish.. Thank you for proving my point.

Some muscle, very little except for Cathy and Trish who is even working on decreasing her muscle mass as she was "too hard" for Figure...and she's not the only one.

Lann...you sure get my point. Aren't there girls competing with WAY more muscle? Aren't some of those girls placing better? Why isn't Gaspari sponsoring them? Because those other girls with more muscle are either not as pretty or their muscle mass looks unappealing.

Appeal is the flavour of the moment.

[OneWideBack]

Enjoy your crush.

She's married, though.



And thats like the only obstacle?
We're on different continents, its all platonic :drool:

[GirlyMuscle]

OK, time to keep it REAL...

Men don't like extremely MUSCULAR women--PERIOD. Female bodybuilding has become regarded as a FREAK SHOW, and outside of our little bodybuilding community, no one would ever desire to look like that.

I happen to agree with you that a "Men's Classic" category would be a very wise addition to the IFBB, most men DO NOT want to look like Jay Cutler, and NO WOMEN finds that attractive. Men should aim to look more like bodybuilders of the 70's-80's, Zane, Arnold, Nubret, and even guys like Steve Reeves.

The Bikini girls work DAMN HARD to look sexy; they are chiseled, lean, and extremely well balanced. Any girl that expresses disdain is simply JEALOUS--PERIOD!

Why do we care so much about what "most men and most women" find attractive and desirable? This isn't a sport for the everyday person. It's a sport for bodybuilders to do what they do...bodybuild.

In defense of the new bikini class....sure there are girls that will do not much of anything and get up there and compete. But there are also girls who are just starting out in the physique world who don;t hae enough muscle yet to compete in figure. I'm training a girl for bikini class at one of my shows. She's trains, eats healthy and has a nice look. I'm going to help her step it all up a notch to competition. maybe in a year or two she'll be ready for figure. Then again, maybe she'll just like the look of bikini and stick with that. Regardless, I think bikini can be a great way to get a girl started in competitions.

[Triple-H_2005]

Its about men with great bodies and women with great bodies that both work hard to achieve what they feel is perfect and I have to say those girls are perfect in my book and I can look at them all day long. There is NO comparison of the bikini girls and strippers, not even close. I know alot of pro bodybuilders that dont train as hard as you think and like I said I know alot of girls who bust there ass in the gym. Do a set of 8-10 reps then rest 2 min then go to all you can eat sushi then take a nap, wow thats intense! Maybe you train super hard lots of drop sets little rest between sets 3-4 hours a day 12 meals a day all food no shakes all healthy food if so thats great. But alot of these girls train hard also stepmill for an hour on level 12 skipping steps the whole time which I couldnt do if my life depended on it. For me training hard is the easy part doing real cardio and super strict diet is the hard part.point is they look fantastic and why put them down for there accomplishments. Anyway I have no problem with beautiful women with incredible physiques, peace bro


The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak...bikini does NOT do this.

My opinion will NEVER change, its T&A, period. Bodybuilding/figure/fitness competitions belong to us, these chicks have Hooters, Hawaiian Tropic etc...and their fans have SI Swimsuit issue and Victoria's Secret.

They simply do not BELONG.

I's like Romano said when this crap started, it's only a matter of time until we get our first Beer Tub Girl with an IFBB Pro Card.

[HammerStrength12]

I find Jay Cutler attractive, although I also think Steve Reeves was very attractive! I think you are forgetting that comparing all women is just wrong because most women who work out and appreciate the work that goes into bodybuilding, do find musclar men attractive. The women you are referring to, are mostly cough potatoes/sedantry!

He's saying that a MUCH higher percentage of women find old school bodybuilders like Zane or Arnold when compared to Cutler. Almost every girl I know would say Jay is gross.

[HammerStrength12]

So I guess the last 64 yrs the IFBB has been in existence has just been .. wrong? And they're just figuring it out now?

Based on your analysis, t looks like they are nailing it then - as the new Mens' Swimsuit category probably has higher mass appeal than the Jay Cutlers of the world as well.



I don't like that logic. When you see those European IFBB male swimsuit models on muscltech ads, then I'll admit I was wrong. But it will never happen. The average consumer of muscletech products looks at those ads and knows they'll never look like Jay, but obviously wants to looke more like him. That category will never have mass appeal. You're average NBA basketball player looks more muscular than those guys, and that's on a frame of 6'6 or greater. The bikini girls that win are still more muscular than 999 out of every thousand women out there


The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak...bikini does NOT do this.

My opinion will NEVER change, its T&A, period. Bodybuilding/figure/fitness competitions belong to us, these chicks have Hooters, Hawaiian Tropic etc...and their fans have SI Swimsuit issue and Victoria's Secret.

They simply do not BELONG.

I's like Romano said when this crap started, it's only a matter of time until we get our first Beer Tub Girl with an IFBB Pro Card.

Well, I agree, but that's why I said "in theory" bikini is natural bodybuilding. Take you average women, have her follow a bodybuilding training regimen and diet for years, and if she's lucky will look like an IFBB bikini competitor. I have this strong sense that that's what they were trying to get at with figure, and then when all these huge girls started coming around, rewarded smaller looks

[Die4Mass]

love it or hate it, bikini is here to stay so just get used to it.

[Ross Erstling]

HEY Russ...stop trying to voice what YOU THINK is your opinion of what MEN like in a woman.. it is stupid, and you have no idea what men want. You know what you like, and most people on this board really don't care WHAT you think.. The more posts I read from you, the more I think you should post LESS.

Saying that men do not like Muscular women is JUST like all those TMZ dipshits saying that ALL women do not like Jay Culter or HUGE muscle men. Well, I am a woman and I do.. They were wrong for saying it, and so are you.

If you are so put off of muscular women, then why BE On a BODYBUILDING site that caters to men, women, figure and fitness atheletes??? Isn't there a Victoria's Secret fan site or a Hooters girl web page you can go to?

Lastly, I think that you voicing your opinion AGAIN AND AGAIN is not the smartest thing to do as you are "Owner of Supreme Sports Enhancements".

Way to go CEO, would you like to completely alienate any more potential FEMALE customers who may have wanted to buy your product, and now think you are a total douche bag? Do you see ALR bashing women bodybuilders? Do you see Rich Gaspari posting that muscles on women are not attractive???

MOST MEN DO NOT find very muscular women attractive, that's a FACT. This is not my opinion.

MOST WOMEN DO NOT find EXTREMELY MUSCULAR men like Jay Cutler or Markus Ruhl attractive. That's a FACT. This is not my opinion.

Bodybuilding began as a MEN's sport, and I love bodybuilding as a man. Me personally, I love women of all kinds, I would even bang some of these muscular chicks. However, not many of my friends feel the same way.

Bodybuilding has evolved, and it's not just about packing on as much muscle as possible. Saying that bikini girls don't have fantastic bodies that require tons of hard work is just ignorant and derived from pure jealousy.

[Ross Erstling]

The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak...bikini does NOT do this.

My opinion will NEVER change, its T&A, period. Bodybuilding/figure/fitness competitions belong to us, these chicks have Hooters, Hawaiian Tropic etc...and their fans have SI Swimsuit issue and Victoria's Secret.

They simply do not BELONG.

I's like Romano said when this crap started, it's only a matter of time until we get our first Beer Tub Girl with an IFBB Pro Card.

You are 100% WRONG.

You say: "The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak".

What is the PEAK? What defines the PEAK? Is it the same for everyone and every gender? NOOOO

These Bikini girls are BODYBUILDERS, with MORE of a focus on balance, symmetry, tone, and less of a focus(but still a focus) on muscle mass.

[HammerStrength12]

You are 100% WRONG.

You say: "The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak".

What is the PEAK? What defines the PEAK? Is it the same for everyone and every gender? NOOOO

These Bikini girls are BODYBUILDERS, with MORE of a focus on balance, symmetry, tone, and less of a focus(but still a focus) on muscle mass.


Agreed. Everybody here has seen pumping iron, read Arnold and Weider's columns, and has the Arnold encyclopedia memorized. I don't ever remember them saying that bodybuilding should be about getting as large as possible while taking massive stacks of deca/tren/test/winny/gh year round. I thought it was supposed to be about balance, symmetry, athleticism, size AND building a physique attractive to the opposite sex.

Bikini is here to stay. Whether we like it or not, it's gonna be the main revenue driver on the womens side

[Suzanne]

OK, time to keep it REAL...

Men don't like extremely MUSCULAR women--PERIOD. Female bodybuilding has become regarded as a FREAK SHOW, and outside of our little bodybuilding community, no one would ever desire to look like that.


It may surprise you that women don't make all their decision based on if it will please men. We choose our sports, our education, our careers based on what appeals to US! I would find it pretty damn pathetic if anyone male or female chose any of the above because it appealed to the opposite sex.

muscular men and women appeal to some and not to others
skinny men and women appeal to some and not to others
fat men and women appeal to some and not to others
and everything in between

Pro levels of "sports" should NOT be attainable by the average person it should the the best of the best. It should be something to strive for but only the most dedicated and gifted

[Ross Erstling]

It may surprise you that women don't make all their decision based on if it will please men. We choose our sports, our education, our careers based on what appeals to US! I would find it pretty damn pathetic if anyone male or female chose any of the above because it appealed to the opposite sex.

muscular men and women appeal to some and not to others
skinny men and women appeal to some and not to others
fat men and women appeal to some and not to others
and everything in between

Pro levels of "sports" should NOT be attainable by the average person it should the the best of the best. It should be something to strive for but only the most dedicated and gifted

ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become an IFBB PRO BIKINI girl! Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.

I'm not saying that women should try to appease men, I am saying the OPPOSITE! If you are a woman and you desire to be extremely muscular like a MAN, then there is a category for you. For those other women that want to be athletic, toned, and semi-muscular, Bikini is for them. Even though some of the female bodybuilders are too muscular and not attractive, they are still damn impressive!

Now, in regards to MAINSTREAM public opinion, bodybuilding in general is a FREAK SHOW. I hope to change that very soon, and I know a lot of people are in agreement. I am going to start some form of organization with other company owners/bodybuilders/judges/etc so we can get this revolution started!

[GUNNER]

Now, in regards to MAINSTREAM public opinion, bodybuilding in general is a FREAK SHOW. I hope to change that very soon, and I know a lot of people are in agreement. I am going to start some form of organization with other company owners/bodybuilders/judges/etc so we can get this revolution started!

Yes pro bodybuilding is about the biggest and freakiest, but that's not ALL of the bodybuilding world. There are already lots of natty competitions and organizations for those that want to compete drug free. There's really no revolution to start. You've had both sides of both bodybuilding (and powerlifting) for a decades now - Tested / Non-tested... and yes, of course some times the "tested" athletes cheat. Fact of life is, people will always try and lie and cheat to win. No news there.

[Ross Erstling]

Yes pro bodybuilding is about the biggest and freakiest, but that's not ALL of the bodybuilding world. There are already lots of natty competitions and organizations for those that want to compete drug free. There's really no revolution to start. You've had both sides of both bodybuilding (and powerlifting) for a decades now - Tested / Non-tested... and yes, of course some times the "tested" athletes cheat. Fact of life is, people will always try and lie and cheat to win. No news there.

The most popular bodybuilding shows should display the most desirable looking physiques.

[sassy69]

ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become an IFBB PRO BIKINI girl! Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.

I'm not saying that women should try to appease men, I am saying the OPPOSITE! If you are a woman and you desire to be extremely muscular like a MAN, then there is a category for you. For those other women that want to be athletic, toned, and semi-muscular, Bikini is for them. Even though some of the female bodybuilders are too muscular and not attractive, they are still damn impressive!

Now, in regards to MAINSTREAM public opinion, bodybuilding in general is a FREAK SHOW. I hope to change that very soon, and I know a lot of people are in agreement. I am going to start some form of organization with other company owners/bodybuilders/judges/etc so we can get this revolution started!


Dude, with all due respect, this is probably the dumbest statement I've ever read.....

[Ross Erstling]

Dude, with all due respect, this is probably the dumbest statement I've ever read.....

Sassy, I'm trying to reason with you here. I don't understand what were are failing to agree upon. Are you saying that bikini girls don't train in the gym? Do they not diet? What are you saying?

[Nic Brunicardi]

ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become an IFBB PRO BIKINI girl! Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.


Isn't that kinda like saying that it's harder to obtain those male swimsuit bodies than a body like your own?
Doesn't really make sense to me. Of course they'll have to be gifted with a beautiful body, but you can't really say that it is harder to obtain than a top figure body.

[sassy69]

Isn't that kinda like saying that it's harder to obtain those male swimsuit bodies than a body like your own?
Doesn't really make sense to me. Of course they'll have to be gifted with a beautiful body, but you can't really say that it is harder to obtain than a top figure body.


^^ Exactly - you're trying to tell me that it requires MORE WORK and BETTER GENETICS to NOT build mass than it does to build mass and diet down leaner.

I know these girls train hard, and with all due respect to the Bikini competitors - the whole framework of PHYSIQUE COMPETITION has only come up within the last 2 or so years whereas there's been decades of bikini contests that involved more tequila shots than chicken and brown rice.

The criteria for Bikini is NO MUSCLE. Guess what - when you go to the gym long enough you're going to build muscle. So where's the growth path for Bikini competitors? I'm thinking pro cards are now limited to girls under 25 who have been lifting weights for less than a year. Where is the growth path here? And why does that warrant a Pro Card? I haven't been able to find Dave's interview yet, but last year he interviewed a Bikini winner who decided 2 weeks before her National qualifying show that she wanted to compete. Where is all this MOST DEDICATED come from here? How do you define dedicated and why is it so fucking important to try to tell me how much HARDER Bikini is tha Figure? Bikini was created to reduce the barriers to entry for women's physique and to generate revenue.

And what exactly is above and beyond about these physiques? Whereas Figure & BB has specific criteria they are being judged on, Bikini, according to MusclePapa's analysis, is all about the right 'come hither look' over the shoulder and popping a hip. This is fine and dandy, but it really doesn't touch the traditional physique judging criteria of the NPC/IFBB.

Seriously Ross. Get a grip on reality.

[Ross Erstling]

^^ Exactly - you're trying to tell me that it requires MORE WORK and BETTER GENETICS to NOT build mass than it does to build mass and diet down leaner.

I know these girls train hard, and with all due respect to the Bikini competitors - the whole framework of PHYSIQUE COMPETITION has only come up within the last 2 or so years whereas there's been decades of bikini contests that involved more tequila shots than chicken and brown rice.

The criteria for Bikini is NO MUSCLE. Guess what - when you go to the gym long enough you're going to build muscle. So where's the growth path for Bikini competitors? I'm thinking pro cards are now limited to girls under 25 who have been lifting weights for less than a year. Where is the growth path here? And why does that warrant a Pro Card? I haven't been able to find Dave's interview yet, but last year he interviewed a Bikini winner who decided 2 weeks before her National qualifying show that she wanted to compete. Where is all this MOST DEDICATED come from here? How do you define dedicated and why is it so fucking important to try to tell me how much HARDER Bikini is tha Figure? Bikini was created to reduce the barriers to entry for women's physique and to generate revenue.

And what exactly is above and beyond about these physiques? Whereas Figure & BB has specific criteria they are being judged on, Bikini, according to MusclePapa's analysis, is all about the right 'come hither look' over the shoulder and popping a hip. This is fine and dandy, but it really doesn't touch the traditional physique judging criteria of the NPC/IFBB.

Seriously Ross. Get a grip on reality.

Do you know who this is?

http://www.ifbb.com/images/hf99/rachelmclish2.jpg

The 1st MS. Olympa ever.

[wenzel]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/nascar-racing-7.jpg
and this was nascar 1950 ...

every sport should improve....forget the past (or you turn to a wennerboy)

[Ross Erstling]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/nascar-racing-7.jpg
and this was nascar 1950 ...

every sport should improve....forget the past (or you turn to a wennerboy)

DRUGS are the reason that girls are FAR more muscular then the first Ms. Olympia.

You can work out as hard as you want, if you are a FEMALE, you can not gain an enormous amount of muscle--PERIOD.

[HammerStrength12]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/nascar-racing-7.jpg
and this was nascar 1950 ...

every sport should improve....forget the past (or you turn to a wennerboy)

That's a bad comparison and you know it. In your definition of "improvement," competitors "progress" by taking tren instead of var. Then start stacking shit. If that's how you see improvement, then you really are out of touch with reality.

If anything, the training methods utilized by professional bodybuilders has gotten WORSE since then. The only thing that has improved are the quantity and quality of AAS

[wenzel]

DRUGS are the reason that girls are FAR more muscular then the first Ms. Olympia.

You can work out as hard as you want, if you are a FEMALE, you can not gain an enormous amount of muscle--PERIOD.

and you are just plain stupid -- PERIOD

[justine0101]

I haven't been able to find Dave's interview yet, but last year he interviewed a Bikini winner who decided 2 weeks before her National qualifying show that she wanted to compete. Where is all this MOST DEDICATED come from here? How do you define dedicated and why is it so fucking important to try to tell me how much HARDER Bikini is tha Figure? Bikini was created to reduce the barriers to entry for women's physique and to generate revenue.


I remember that video. I beleive she competed at this years NY Pro Dayna (sp??) but in the video she mentions how she eats clean year round and trains hard all the time so it was easy hopping in a show w/o any prep

[JillyRev]

[QUOTE=Ross Erstling;1024742]Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.[QUOTE]

is this a joke?



i cant even belive this thread is still going LOL...

[sassy69]

Do you know who this is?

http://www.ifbb.com/images/hf99/rachelmclish2.jpg

The 1st MS. Olympa ever.


I'm not really sure your point, but I might guess that her biceps are too big for Bikini.

Here's something else - when you try to compare what you think women's physique should be NOW, 30 years after the 1st Ms Olympia, is that there should be no evolution. We saw the same evolution in Figure from bikini babe to much harder, back to this non-descript "softer" thing. Women don't want to be kept in a box defined as "acceptable to the mainstream male". When people discover a passion like lifting, by definition, muscle development occurs. Many women find that cosmically empowering -- and you still want to keep it to 1980 so it keeps your dick hard and doesn't empower women to feel good about themselves.

And also let's be damn real about Bikini - we don't have a clear set of judging criteria. We've already seen some shows have to explicitly call out that certain types of these "butterfly" suit bottoms expose too much - why did this even come up as an issue? The NPC / IFBB has had explicit guidelines on suit coverage for YEARS. You can't sit there and defend this category as the ONLY and ULTIMATE presentation of women who are MORE DEDICATED and MORE GENETICALLY GIFTED than any other type of female competitor. I guarantee you're going to see a morphing of what is rewarded, and I guarantee you're going to see women using controlled susbtances to achieve this look as it gets, as you say "more comeptitive".

[Ross Erstling]

[quote=Ross Erstling;1024742]Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.[quote]

is this a joke?



i cant even belive this thread is still going LOL...

No, but I LOVE your avy. :)

[Triple-H_2005]

You are 100% WRONG.

You say: "The IFBB/NPC are supposed to be about pushing the body to reach its peak".

What is the PEAK? What defines the PEAK? Is it the same for everyone and every gender? NOOOO

These Bikini girls are BODYBUILDERS, with MORE of a focus on balance, symmetry, tone, and less of a focus(but still a focus) on muscle mass.

Muscle mass a focus? In BIKINI???

Bro, you've Jumped the Shark (again).

[Ross Erstling]

I'm not really sure your point, but I might guess that her biceps are too big for Bikini.

Here's something else - when you try to compare what you think women's physique should be NOW, 30 years after the 1st Ms Olympia, is that there should be no evolution. We saw the same evolution in Figure from bikini babe to much harder, back to this non-descript "softer" thing. Women don't want to be kept in a box defined as "acceptable to the mainstream male". When people discover a passion like lifting, by definition, muscle development occurs. Many women find that cosmically empowering -- and you still want to keep it to 1980 so it keeps your dick hard and doesn't empower women to feel good about themselves.

And also let's be damn real about Bikini - we don't have a clear set of judging criteria. We've already seen some shows have to explicitly call out that certain types of these "butterfly" suit bottoms expose too much - why did this even come up as an issue? The NPC / IFBB has had explicit guidelines on suit coverage for YEARS. You can't sit there and defend this category as the ONLY and ULTIMATE presentation of women who are MORE DEDICATED and MORE GENETICALLY GIFTED than any other type of female competitor. I guarantee you're going to see a morphing of what is rewarded, and I guarantee you're going to see women using controlled susbtances to achieve this look as it gets, as you say "more comeptitive".

Who said this? I am simply recognizing THIS PARTICULAR category of women and their great genetics and dedication. That doesn't take ANYTHING away from figure girls--many of whom are also beautiful.

[Ross Erstling]

Muscle mass a focus? In BIKINI???

Bro, you've Jumped the Shark (again).

Have you seen their ASSES? Their legs? They have awesome development in their lower bodies and great shape and tone in their backs and upper bodies.

Are you gay? if so, that's cool. Just wonderin.

[sassy69]

Who said this? I am simply recognizing THIS PARTICULAR category of women and their great genetics and dedication. That doesn't take ANYTHING away from figure girls--many of whom are also beautiful.


Your quote:

ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become an IFBB PRO BIKINI girl! Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.

[Ross Erstling]

Your quote:

ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become an IFBB PRO BIKINI girl! Actually, it's probably even HARDER to obtain their dimensions and proportions than it is to become a FIGURE girl, as any girl can become MUSCULAR but not every girl can be AESTHETIC.

You stated that ANYONE can become a bikini girl. I said that ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become bikini girls, and that goes for any category.

As for my other statement; it's true. ANY girl can take steroids and train and eat big enough for muscle mass. However, it takes TRUE genetic gifts to look as balanced and beautiful as the bikini girls. It doesn't matter how much muscle mass you have..

Same goes for men actually. BALANCE and SIZE are two different aspects of bodybuilding.

[HammerStrength12]

I'm not really sure your point, but I might guess that her biceps are too big for Bikini.

Here's something else - when you try to compare what you think women's physique should be NOW, 30 years after the 1st Ms Olympia, is that there should be no evolution. We saw the same evolution in Figure from bikini babe to much harder, back to this non-descript "softer" thing. Women don't want to be kept in a box defined as "acceptable to the mainstream male". When people discover a passion like lifting, by definition, muscle development occurs. Many women find that cosmically empowering -- and you still want to keep it to 1980 so it keeps your dick hard and doesn't empower women to feel good about themselves.

And also let's be damn real about Bikini - we don't have a clear set of judging criteria. We've already seen some shows have to explicitly call out that certain types of these "butterfly" suit bottoms expose too much - why did this even come up as an issue? The NPC / IFBB has had explicit guidelines on suit coverage for YEARS. You can't sit there and defend this category as the ONLY and ULTIMATE presentation of women who are MORE DEDICATED and MORE GENETICALLY GIFTED than any other type of female competitor. I guarantee you're going to see a morphing of what is rewarded, and I guarantee you're going to see women using controlled susbtances to achieve this look as it gets, as you say "more comeptitive".


First sentence, I dunno. Rachel Mclish looks FAR more like a bikini competitor today than a figure competitor. Everything else I agree with, but that doesn't really have much to do with what I was saying earlier. That's why I said "in theory" bikini is natural bodybuilding. Follow a natural bodybuilding regime for years and you'll look more and more like Rachel. But unfortunately, looking at your last paragraph, that's the reality that is the IFBB/NPC. I to don't think that bikini should be about rushing to get on stage. But many girls will use substances to get that look as quickly as possible. And the criteria/posing's still a little sketchy, I'm also not a huge fan of the doggy-style and throw me a 20 poses. Although it's damn fun to watch, definitely degrading towards the women.


But it's not about that. All we're saying is that these girls look damn good and work just as hard as any of us do.

[sassy69]

You stated that ANYONE can become a bikini girl. I said that ONLY the most dedicated and gifted women can become bikini girls, and that goes for any category.

As for my other statement; it's true. ANY girl can take steroids and train and eat big enough for muscle mass. However, it takes TRUE genetic gifts to look as balanced and beautiful as the bikini girls. It doesn't matter how much muscle mass you have..

Same goes for men actually. BALANCE and SIZE are two different aspects of bodybuilding.

You've never competed right?

... it shows.

[Triple-H_2005]

Have you seen their ASSES? Their legs? They have awesome development in their lower bodies and great shape and tone in their backs and upper bodies.

Are you gay? if so, that's cool. Just wonderin.

You're an idiot.

I love hot women as much as anyone, but these BEACH BODIES do not belong onstage at an NPC/IFBB event. Hooters misses them...

Speaking of legs, where are the pics of your "diesel" legs? In the Iron Asylum, much?

[Triple-H_2005]

You've never competed right?

... it shows.

Precisely...

He's the douche in the gym that wanders from member to member giving out free "advice" to anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves in his path.

[Ross Erstling]

You're an idiot.

I love hot women as much as anyone, but these BEACH BODIES do not belong onstage at an NPC/IFBB event. Hooters misses them...

Speaking of legs, where are the pics of your "diesel" legs? In the Iron Asylum, much?

Why don't they belong? A BEACH BODY is a bodybuilding physique, and requires hard work to obtain!

HOOTERS girls do NOT have the SHAPE that these bikini girls have in their arms, shoulders, backs, and legs. You are a blind fool.

[sassy69]

Why don't they belong? A BEACH BODY is a bodybuilding physique, and requires hard work to obtain!

HOOTERS girls do NOT have the SHAPE that these bikini girls have in their arms, shoulders, backs, and legs. You are a blind fool.


How do you know that Hooters girls and Bikini competitors are mutually exclusive groups?

And now you're shitting all over Hooters girls.

And this business about beach bodies being hard to obtain ... go hit Panama City during spring break and ask all the hotties how many 16 oz hammer curls they did to get that body.

[bleckrocks]

You're an idiot.

I love hot women as much as anyone, but these BEACH BODIES do not belong onstage at an NPC/IFBB event. Hooters misses them...

Speaking of legs, where are the pics of your "diesel" legs? In the Iron Asylum, much?



I love this Triple- H guy :yourock:

Think we need a big Boxing ring i def pay to watch :yep:

[Rich Piana]

Got this from page 3 of this thread and took out the other girls. This girls waist to shoulder ratio is insane! Thats an incredible physique! but its different than a female bodybuilders, is it better? who cares its personal preference and they are different categories for a reason there different. its not going to ruin bodybuilding, I believe distended guts and 40 inch waist is a bigger problem than beautiful women. Also I Train at 3 different gyms and go to venice sometimes and I have to say I dont see girls walking around that look like this so I wouldnt call her average. Maybe where some of you live this is average but not in southern california

[Triple-H_2005]

Why don't they belong? A BEACH BODY is a bodybuilding physique, and requires hard work to obtain!

HOOTERS girls do NOT have the SHAPE that these bikini girls have in their arms, shoulders, backs, and legs. You are a blind fool.

My eyes work just fine.

I can STILL see that the only thing more difficult to obtain than a legitimate Bigfoot photo is a picture of your MASSIVE QUADS.

Or did I miss those?

They must be in the thread with your client testimonials, Dave talking about your "In the Iron Asylum" and the link to said feature.

[Triple-H_2005]

I love this Triple- H guy :yourock:

Think we need a big Boxing ring i def pay to watch :yep:

My dear, I wouldn't have a prayer.

In addition to being "President" of a "leading" supplement company, resident expert on all things bodybuilding, nutritional guru, "Iron Asylum" subject AND a man with 20" arms (my personal favorite), he's probably a cage fighter, street fighter, dog fighter and thumb-wrestling champion...

But thank you, all the same!:hmn:

[HammerStrength12]

My eyes work just fine.

I can STILL see that the only thing more difficult to obtain than a legitimate Bigfoot photo is a picture of your MASSIVE QUADS.

Or did I miss those?

They must be in the thread with your client testimonials, Dave talking about your "In the Iron Asylum" and the link to said feature.

Don't let his trash talking from previous threads distract you from the real point he's trying to make



And this business about beach bodies being hard to obtain ... go hit Panama City during spring break and ask all the hotties how many 16 oz hammer curls they did to get that body.

That's not what he was getting at and you know it

[Triple-H_2005]

Don't let his trash talking from previous threads distract you from the real point he's trying to make



I disagree with his point, and nothing any of you guys say will ever change my mind.

Bikini=Hooters.

Period.

He's still a clown, and its just too fun and easy to poke him.

[sassy69]

Don't let his trash talking from previous threads distract you from the real point he's trying to make



That's not what he was getting at and you know it


He's going all over the place telling me how mutherfucking amazing Bikini girls are and that no one other than someone who spends 50% of their time in the gym AND has incredible genetics could possibly be worth his time. BTW, if you take said Bikini girl and give her two years in the gym, guess what... she's now got enough mass to be the less desirable and probably more lazy Figure girl.

As I said, get a grip. Somehow the world has managed to continue rotating w/o NPC Bikini showed up in the year of our Lord 2009.

BTW I haven't seen him mention the FAME federation at all -- they have been promoting comparable categories for years.

[HammerStrength12]

I disagree with his point, and nothing any of you guys say will ever change my mind.

Bikini=Hooters.

Period.

He's still a clown, and its just too fun and easy to poke him.

Since I'm not gonna persuade you this will be the only time I try lol. But really

Do you really think that your average bikini pro trains and diets the same as a hooters girl or a college girl on spring break? Can you not tell that an IFFB bikini pro has FAR less bodyfat and WAY more muscle tone than a hooters or spring break girl? I'd go so far as to say (again, total guess) that a typical bikini competitor has about 10lbs more muscle and 10% less bodyfat than a typical spring break "hottie." Do you know how hard it is for a girl to gain 10lbs of muscle and lose 10% bf is she's not takin anything? Think about it..

I agree with a lot of the things you're sayin. But I'm not gonna agree with the people who are saying that giving an IFBB pro card to a bikini model is like giving a super bowl ring to a pop warner QB. To do so is a MAJOR insult to all the hard work these girls put in




BTW I haven't seen him mention the FAME federation at all -- they have been promoting comparable categories for years.

FAME is drug tested. He's said that he's used

[Triple-H_2005]

He's going all over the place telling me how mutherfucking amazing Bikini girls are and that no one other than someone who spends 50% of their time in the gym AND has incredible genetics could possibly be worth his time. BTW, if you take said Bikini girl and give her two years in the gym, guess what... she's now got enough mass to be the less desirable and probably more lazy Figure girl.

As I said, get a grip. Somehow the world has managed to continue rotating w/o NPC Bikini showed up in the year of our Lord 2009.

BTW I haven't seen him mention the FAME federation at all -- they have been promoting comparable categories for years.

Careful, Sassy, you're making a rational point...that shit will NOT fly when people are determined to have their T&A at teh muscle show.

[sassy69]

Since I'm not gonna persuade you this will be the only time I try lol. But really

Do you really think that your average bikini pro trains and diets the same as a hooters girl or a college girl on spring break? Can you not tell that an IFFB bikini pro has FAR less bodyfat and WAY more muscle tone than a hooters or spring break girl? I'd go so far as to say (again, total guess) that a typical bikini competitor has about 10lbs more muscle and 10% less bodyfat than a typical spring break "hottie." Do you know how hard it is for a girl to gain 10lbs of muscle and lose 10% bf is she's not takin anything? Think about it..

I agree with a lot of the things you're sayin. But I'm not gonna agree with the people who are saying that giving an IFBB pro card to a bikini model is like giving a super bowl ring to a pop warner QB. To do so is a MAJOR insult to all the hard work these girls put in


At the same time let's not get carried away and put IFBB Pro Bikini competitors so far up on a pedestal that none but the MOST DEDICATED and MOST GENETICALLY GIFTED can achieve this.

A Pro Bikini card is not all that hard to achieve, and if you compare it to what it takes to win a pro card in men's or women's BB, it doesn't even touch it.

So let's just keep things in perspective.

[Lann1011]

Why do we care so much about what "most men and most women" find attractive and desirable? This isn't a sport for the everyday person. It's a sport for bodybuilders to do what they do...bodybuild.

In defense of the new bikini class....sure there are girls that will do not much of anything and get up there and compete. But there are also girls who are just starting out in the physique world who don;t hae enough muscle yet to compete in figure. I'm training a girl for bikini class at one of my shows. She's trains, eats healthy and has a nice look. I'm going to help her step it all up a notch to competition. maybe in a year or two she'll be ready for figure. Then again, maybe she'll just like the look of bikini and stick with that. Regardless, I think bikini can be a great way to get a girl started in competitions.


That is what I did.. did not have enough muscle for figure and fitness. I did train and diet. I am glad and proud to be going for the other divisions... If I put on enough muscle and switched to body building, I would be glad and proud to compete there too.

[Triple-H_2005]

Since I'm not gonna persuade you this will be the only time I try lol. But really

Do you really think that your average bikini pro trains and diets the same as a hooters girl or a college girl on spring break? Can you not tell that an IFFB bikini pro has FAR less bodyfat and WAY more muscle tone than a hooters or spring break girl? I'd go so far as to say (again, total guess) that a typical bikini competitor has about 10lbs more muscle and 10% less bodyfat than a typical spring break "hottie." Do you know how hard it is for a girl to gain 10lbs of muscle and lose 10% bf is she's not takin anything? Think about it..

I agree with a lot of the things you're sayin. But I'm not gonna agree with the people who are saying that giving an IFBB pro card to a bikini model is like giving a super bowl ring to a pop warner QB. To do so is a MAJOR insult to all the hard work these girls put in

Boss, we're just going to agree to disagree, because a PRO CARD should NOT be something that is attainable with a year or two of moderately difficult exercise.

What the IFBB is doing with Figure is bad enough, with an ASC/Olympia champ that has virtually zero muscle and is almost indistinguishable from a bikini babe. Honestly, in the Flex swimsuit issue, the only difference between NWL and the "bikini models" is the big fake boobs.

If they ARE going to force this nonsensical farce upon us, the least the Powers That Be could do is reward the Figure girls for actually looking like they train hard.

But I digress, that's a different topic entirely.

[HammerStrength12]

Boss, we're just going to agree to disagree, because a PRO CARD should NOT be something that is attainable with a year or two of moderately difficult exercise.






A Pro Bikini card is not all that hard to achieve, and if you compare it to what it takes to win a pro card in men's or women's BB, it doesn't even touch it.


Like I said before, "in theory" (because I can't think of a better word) I disagree. But looking at reality, anyone with access to the same supplements, whether they be legal or illegal, as figure competitors and bodybuilders can achieve the look of a bikin pro MUCH faster than the look of a figure or bodybuilding pro. In that sense, I agree with you both.

[sassy69]

Like I said before, "in theory" (because I can't think of a better word) I disagree. But looking at reality, anyone with access to the same supplements, whether they be legal or illegal, as figure competitors and bodybuilders can achieve the look of a bikin pro MUCH faster than a figure or bodybuilding pro. In that sense, I agree with you both.

Dude - you can achieve a bikini look w/ 1 yr of training & diet. Many, in 6 months. Its an ENTRY LEVEL category. Lower barriers to entry. Cash cow for the NPC. Not even getting into the drugs. And if you want to go there, explain to me why a bikini competitor would need them anyway? They're using 'em. That just tells me they're more interested in competing than a fitness lifestyle.

With drugs you can achieve a bikini body in like 2 months if you wanted.

It takes TIME to build muscle mass. Time spent lifting your ass off to develop mass, time spent eating to build, time spent recovering and time spent cutting to dial in. This takes YEARS. Not a season. Dedication is when you set aside your life repeatedly over years to achieve a certain look. You CANNOT compare that to a Bikini regimen simply because Bikini is NOT supposed to be about muscle mass. But by the same token, as an entry level, its a starting point of an evolution if they care to continue. But the byproduct of lifting is muscle mass, which, by definition, will disqualify you from the Bikini category.

[Rich Piana]

Well we all workout and obviously enjoy it and like to compete in physique shows on different levels and all have different opinions of what looks best but why all the anger and hate? I dont think calling these girls strippers and hooter girls is cool but thats just my opinion. Been to 2 strip clubs in my life and the girls were nasty, fat and out of shape. Been to Hooters once and girls definitly didnt look like the bikini contestants but maybe bad nights. Anyway everyone has different opinion but no reason to talk shit about them again just my opinion. I dont know why im wasting my time on here about this, stupid! We all have different opinions and thats not going to change but it is a dying sport and they need all the help they can get. Its sad but true.

[HammerStrength12]

Dude - you can achieve a bikini look w/ 1 yr of training & diet. Many, in 6 months. Its an ENTRY LEVEL category. Lower barriers to entry. Cash cow for the NPC.

With drugs you can achieve a bikini body in like 2 months if you wanted.
.

I still find this very hard to believe. I've gotten multiple PMs from regular female posters on this site who compete in bikini, expressing how frustrating it is that people think this way when they saw what I posted on this thread. I'm a male though, and not being an expert on this, will leave that one up to the women to contest if they so choose to do so.


Not even getting into the drugs. And if you want to go there, explain to me why a bikini competitor would need them anyway? They're using 'em. That just tells me they're more interested in competing than a fitness lifestyle.



Duh. They don't need them. That last sentence is probably the sad reality for a lot of competitors.



It takes TIME to build muscle mass. Time spent lifting your ass off to develop mass, time spent eating to build, time spent recovering and time spent cutting to dial in. This takes YEARS. Not a season. Dedication is when you set aside your life repeatedly over years to achieve a certain look. You CANNOT compare that to a Bikini regimen simply because Bikini is NOT supposed to be about muscle mass. But by the same token, as an entry level, its a starting point of an evolution if they care to continue. But the byproduct of lifting is muscle mass, which, by definition, will disqualify you from the Bikini category.

Trust me, I know this, I've been doing this for 10 years, put on an average of maybe 7-8lbs of muscle each year. Never taken any drugs. I know what being patient is all about. Like I said before, the IFBB bikini girls have FAR more muscle mass than the bikin girls at hooters. It doesn't even come close. They say they disqualify you if you have muscle, yet the girls that keep winning have muscle. Everyone can see this.

Finally, check out my friend Mariya. Been lifting heavy ass weights for YEARS. Looks an awful lot like a bikin competitor right?

http://www.naturallyintense.net/blog/bodybuilding/female-bodybuilders-what-do-they-look-like-when-they-dont-use-drugs/

[HammerStrength12]

BTW, only point I was tryng to make with that link was to show how bikin is "natural bodybuilding" in theory IMO. Sure there are plenty of natural girls out there bigger than her. Even if it doesn't take that long to get that look like you say, maintaining it is a 24/7 lifestyle thing that requires a lot of hard work and sacrifice. Just showin respect to all the bikini girls out there, that's all

[FIREBLAST]

Ross "In the Iron Asylum video" or close thread.

[james001]

Here's something else - when you try to compare what you think women's physique should be NOW, 30 years after the 1st Ms Olympia, is that there should be no evolution. We saw the same evolution in Figure from bikini babe to much harder, back to this non-descript "softer" thing. Women don't want to be kept in a box defined as "acceptable to the mainstream male". When people discover a passion like lifting, by definition, muscle development occurs. Many women find that cosmically empowering -- and you still want to keep it to 1980 so it keeps your dick hard and doesn't empower women to feel good about themselves.


What these bikini women are doing is amplifying feminine beauty.. you seem to have a major problem with *feminine*.

Most women do not want to build up a lot of muscle mass, why would they? You have to accept the fact that the majority of women do not want to turn themselves into men.

You go on about an *evolution* - The only way all of this muscle mass comes about on a female is through the use of *male* hormones. A natural woman can train for her entire life, and not develop a lot of mass. What she will do is shape up and refine her natural feminine form, which would be extremely empowering to a woman I imagine.. since you’re so worried about women *empowering* themselves.

Female bodybuilding is dead in the water, it’s a freak show. Its off putting. This bikini look is a step in the right direction.. an example of what the perfect female physique looks like - imo.

Sure, it takes dedication to pump yourself full of male hormones for years on end and turn yourself into something god never intended you to be.. But it also takes dedication to attain an ideal feminine form. These women spend just as much time in the gym as anyone else. So they don’t use male hormones - god bless them. They look fantastic. In ten years time training without the use of drugs, they will still look - fantastic.

Its not about being kept in a box.. give me a break. Its about remaining female.

[sassy69]

Well we all workout and obviously enjoy it and like to compete in physique shows on different levels and all have different opinions of what looks best but why all the anger and hate? I dont think calling these girls strippers and hooter girls is cool but thats just my opinion. Been to 2 strip clubs in my life and the girls were nasty, fat and out of shape. Been to Hooters once and girls definitly didnt look like the bikini contestants but maybe bad nights. Anyway everyone has different opinion but no reason to talk shit about them again just my opinion. I dont know why im wasting my time on here about this, stupid! We all have different opinions and thats not going to change but it is a dying sport and they need all the help they can get. Its sad but true.


Exactly - we're all talking broad generalizations and everyone can find an individual example proving or disproving the argument.

My points are:
- bikini exists for revenue for the federation
- bikini is a category that is entry, relative to Figure or FBB.
- I'm still iffy on the value of a bikini Pro card.
- You can't compare the amount of work - volume for volume, time spent for time spent between bikini, figure and FBB.
- bikini gets compared to strippers because the judging criteria and presentation is comparable and as many have stated, is only missing a pole, esp if you compare the traditional requirements established over the last 64 yrs in the NPC/IFBB for physique competition.
- bikini competition is more traditionally rooted in beach bikini competitions, e.g. Hawaiian Tropic so the association is already well-established. Unless the NPC/IFBB comes up w/ more quanitifiable criteria, it will continue to be that way.

Its silly that everything gets so hung up on this on both sides. But let's not get on our high horse about it. If it makes your dick hard, knock yourself out. I don't recall any bikini competitor going into training w/ the hope that she makes some guy's dick hard. I believe she wants to achieve personal goals, get onstage and be judged by the specified criteria, as squishy as it is. Not hear cat calls from a bunch of juiced up idiots in the audience. THAT sets back women's physique competition 40 yrs.

[Triple-H_2005]

Ross "In the Iron Asylum video" or close thread.

They're going to post that on the day Geraldo releases the real footage of when he found Al Capone's vault.

[FIREBLAST]

They're going to post that on the day Geraldo releases the real footage of when he found Al Capone's vault.

Lol, fine then a leg picture will do just fine

[james001]

My opinion will NEVER change, its T&A, period. these chicks have Hooters, Hawaiian Tropic etc...and their fans have SI Swimsuit issue and Victoria's Secret.

They simply do not BELONG.


http://hubpages.com/u/2505066.jpg


You are a moron. Plain and simple. Comparing a woman who devotes so much time and energy to developing ideal proportions, a truly shapely and aesthetic physique.. to a *hooters girl* who doesn’t do much of anything, training or otherwise is idiotic - period.

Does this really look like a hooters girl to you?

[bert]

Guys, there is one reason why we have a bikini division. MONEY
It is a way for the NPC to make more money off the ridiculous card you have to buy and more entry fees. All that NPC money goes to Pittsburgh and you know who.
The IFBB has it so they can sell more magazines for the horny wankers out their to jerk off with. No one really cares about waist to hip, soft versus hard, they only care about another way to make more money.

[sassy69]

http://hubpages.com/u/2505066.jpg


You are a moron. Plain and simple. Comparing a woman who devotes so much time and energy to developing ideal proportions, a truly shapely and aesthetic physique.. to a *hooters girl* who doesn’t do much of anything, training or otherwise is idiotic - period.

Does this really look like a hooters girl to you?

That Hooters job could be paying the $100 entry fee for the Bikini contest.

[AnneP]

Someone asked why all hate and anger. Noone is hating bikini girls. But .. at least. .. my opinion bases on what I see on bikini stage and what kind of girls are awarded in bikini...

I see no muscles and no real conditioning on bikini stage. I simply just see no link with bikini girls to NPC/ IFBB. Most of them (not all) look like they never touched a dumbbell in their life.

What I see then... , I see in most cases (not all) girls on stage who act like they would be selling some "services" , with their "do me take this ass"-impressions and poses. That is something they do themselves. And when they act and pose and walk like that on stage, how they can even expect the impression (created by them selves) is "wow what true athletes".

Also the attitude many many bikini girls (again, not all, they are sure some with good attitude as well) have is not that good either. They tell how they hate muscles and veins and they tell how FITNESS pros look ugly with all their striations and they laugh how people are sick prepping for a show more than 10 weeks. Now, after such talk and attitude, how they can expect they are warmly welcome to "the muscle family".

PLUS the fact how this division is judged and how comparisons are taken. It shows they dont compare physiques. When I look at these girls and try to compare ... obviously not muscle development and conditioning as noone has them, but other criteria known in physique sports .. balance, lines, frames, shoulder/waist ratio, harmony , structure, symmetry ... I notice, these factors play NO role in judging. Again, if there is nothing you can really be better physique wise according the judging, why this is then under sport division and even more, under professional sport league?

Yeh, every girl does not want to get muscles. It s ok, they dont have to. But why in hell such a big need to compete under such federation then? Thats the most retarded part.

Again, the "best" bikini girls could easily do figure. Sherlyn Roy did both and quite well. Thats a good example that they dont require that much in pro figure that there should be pro bikini division.

[Triple-H_2005]

http://hubpages.com/u/2505066.jpg


You are a moron. Plain and simple. Comparing a woman who devotes so much time and energy to developing ideal proportions, a truly shapely and aesthetic physique.. to a *hooters girl* who doesn’t do much of anything, training or otherwise is idiotic - period.

Does this really look like a hooters girl to you?

She's the exception.

And no, bikini still does not belong in the NPC/IFBB, even if it looks like this.

I'm not a moron. You're simply incapable of comprehension, apparently. I said Hooters, I never said "Hooters Girl", as in the waitresses. I'm simply referring to any bikini competition at the beach or a bar.

That girl looks great, but bikini does NOT belong in bodybuilding. For the girls that didn't want to be bodybuilders or aren't capable of building the muscle, they invented Figure. That's enough.

Bikini is about money, nothing more. Getting money from the girls that aren't able or ready to compete.

You'll never change my mind.

[Die4Mass]

Guys, there is one reason why we have a bikini division. MONEY
It is a way for the NPC to make more money off the ridiculous card you have to buy and more entry fees. All that NPC money goes to Pittsburgh and you know who.
The IFBB has it so they can sell more magazines for the horny wankers out their to jerk off with. No one really cares about waist to hip, soft versus hard, they only care about another way to make more money.

this pretty much sums up the issue right here... whether you like the idea of bikini competitors or not this is the truth and its not going away. i personally dont care for bikini but since its going to be there i guess i can sit back and enjoy the view for 15 minutes that they're up on stage

[Triple-H_2005]

Someone asked why all hate and anger. Noone is hating bikini girls. But .. at least. .. my opinion bases on what I see on bikini stage and what kind of girls are awarded in bikini...

I see no muscles and no real conditioning on bikini stage. I simply just see no link with bikini girls to NPC/ IFBB. Most of them (not all) look like they never touched a dumbbell in their life.

What I see then... , I see in most cases (not all) girls on stage who act like they would be selling some "services" , with their "do me take this ass"-impressions and poses. That is something they do themselves. And when they act and pose and walk like that on stage, how they can even expect the impression (created by them selves) is "wow what true athletes".

Also the attitude many many bikini girls (again, not all, they are sure some with good attitude as well) have is not that good either. They tell how they hate muscles and veins and they tell how FITNESS pros look ugly with all their striations and they laugh how people are sick prepping for a show more than 10 weeks. Now, after such talk and attitude, how they can expect they are warmly welcome to "the muscle family".

PLUS the fact how this division is judged and how comparisons are taken. It shows they dont compare physiques. When I look at these girls and try to compare ... obviously not muscle development and conditioning as noone has them, but other criteria known in physique sports .. balance, lines, frames, shoulder/waist ratio, harmony , structure, symmetry ... I notice, these factors play NO role in judging. Again, why this is then under sport division and even more, under professional sport league?

Yeh, every girl does not want to get muscles. It s ok, they dont have to. But why the need to then be able to compete under such federation? Thats the most retarded part.

Again, the "best" bikini girls could easily do figure. Sherlyn Roy did both and quite well. Thats a good example that they dont require that much in pro figure that there should be pro bikini division.

This.

All of this.

Everything that was said here...

[sassy69]

Trust me, I know this, I've been doing this for 10 years, put on an average of maybe 7-8lbs of muscle each year. Never taken any drugs. I know what being patient is all about. Like I said before, the IFBB bikini girls have FAR more muscle mass than the bikin girls at hooters. It doesn't even come close. They say they disqualify you if you have muscle, yet the girls that keep winning have muscle. Everyone can see this.



And yet the original criteria for bikini was Figure w/o muscle. So now they're rewarding muscle? Kinda tells you the future of Bikini doesn't it? The same as Figure. Unclear criteria and rewarding what 'looks best' onstage. This will continue to screw w/ the competitors in terms of what look they should be striving for.

[james001]

You'll never change my mind.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view :)

[HammerStrength12]

And yet the original criteria for bikini was Figure w/o muscle. So now they're rewarding muscle? Kinda tells you the future of Bikini doesn't it? The same as Figure. Unclear criteria and rewarding what 'looks best' onstage. This will continue to screw w/ the competitors in terms of what look they should be striving for.

I never denied that. All I said was that the bikini competitors I see in the pictures seem to have a good amount of muscle mass/tone for women. Much more than hooters girls

[Triple-H_2005]

So could someone please watch this tripe and tell me again about how hard these girls train?

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/in-the-trenches/2987-bikini-back-workout-with-ellen-beckner.html

You may want to mute it though, the conceit and inability to deliver humor will literally ooze from your speakers. Oh, and her attitude may make you want to murder a litter of kittens.

[Curt James]

So let's just keep things in perspective.

If someone created a thread dismissing female bodybuilding as a ridiculous activity undeserving of serious consideration there would (hopefully) be a furor.

Why the seeming anger at the women who choose to participate in Bikini?

Complain to the IFBB. Send a letter to Manion or Weinberger.

The presentation of the athletes will make or break this new category, imo. That goes beyond the "walk" the women offer and carries into the commentary/wrap ups.

If commentators have nothing more to say than "Wow! ASS FOR DAYS!!!" then this division will be more easily viewed as mere eye candy.

The NPC/IFBB has added this division for whatever reason and so I'm supporting it. I'd much rather see the Masters Olympia return with a Masters Ms. Olympia thrown into the mix, weight classes returned to popularity for men and women, and other changes like incorporating some "open hands" or "classic" women's physique poses into Figure competition, however Bikini was the choice.

Trip, IFBB Bikini is not being contested at Hooters, but maybe this is the best hope for or route to Hooters, Budweiser, ESPN-tier sponsorship and coverage of the industry as a whole.

The goal is growing the sport, isn't it? I don't necessarily see Bikini as a step backwards.

Otoh, it's disturbing to see Figure displaced at an upcoming show substituting Bikini in its place. Or was that just a rumor?

[Triple-H_2005]

The goal is growing the sport, isn't it? I don't necessarily see Bikini as a step backwards.


When training like this...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/in-the-trenches/2987-bikini-back-workout-with-ellen-beckner.html

...can win a Pro Card, yes. It IS a step backward.

[Suzanne]

What these bikini women are doing is amplifying feminine beauty.. you seem to have a major problem with *feminine*.

Most women do not want to build up a lot of muscle mass, why would they? You have to accept the fact that the majority of women do not want to turn themselves into men.

You go on about an *evolution* - The only way all of this muscle mass comes about on a female is through the use of *male* hormones. A natural woman can train for her entire life, and not develop a lot of mass. What she will do is shape up and refine her natural feminine form, which would be extremely empowering to a woman I imagine.. since you’re so worried about women *empowering* themselves.

Female bodybuilding is dead in the water, it’s a freak show. Its off putting. This bikini look is a step in the right direction.. an example of what the perfect female physique looks like - imo.

Sure, it takes dedication to pump yourself full of male hormones for years on end and turn yourself into something god never intended you to be.. But it also takes dedication to attain an ideal feminine form. These women spend just as much time in the gym as anyone else. So they don’t use male hormones - god bless them. They look fantastic. In ten years time training without the use of drugs, they will still look - fantastic.

Its not about being kept in a box.. give me a break. Its about remaining female.

For npc/ifbb it shouldn't matter what MOST women want. This is the international federation of BODY BUILDING if you don't want muscle go somewhere else simple concept

Most men don't want tons of muscle either

what do you consider a lot of mass? cuz plenty of people have attained a hell of a lot more muscle then then bikini look - naturally

i don't think God gives a shit if women decide to build muscle

[HammerStrength12]

If a girl wants to get as big and muscular as possible, that's great. It's not a popular look, but more power to you because you're obtaining what YOU want. That's all that really matters. I'd never hate on that. I've been training for 10 years, I know all the hard work that goes into building muscle. I will NEVER criticize somebody for following their dreams and doing what they like

Don't hate on bikini girls for doing what they want

[james001]

i don't think God gives a shit if women decide to build muscle

Lol.. I said *what god intended you to be*... women are designed to be , eh, female. The males opposite. Pumping yourself full male hormones, becoming muscular, masculine, like a male.. goes against the intended design, as I see it. That is what I meant.

That’s one of the reasons the bikini look will be hugely successful, the look remains feminine. Which is what women were intended to be. Gloriously feminine..

God probably doesn’t give a shit about a lot of things, looking at what happens in the world. But I really don’t know.

[HammerStrength12]

Lol.. I said *what god intended you to be*... women are designed to be , eh, female. The males opposite. Pumping yourself full male hormones, becoming muscular, masculine, like a male.. goes against the intended design, as I see it. That is what I meant.

That’s one of the reasons the bikini look will be hugely successful, the look remains feminine. Which is what women were intended to be. Gloriously feminine..

God probably doesn’t give a shit about a lot of things, looking at what happens in the world. But I really don’t know.

I don't agree with this, but I don't believe in god either lol. Let her do want she wants, just like they should let the bikini girls do what they want and respect them for it

[james001]

Let her do want she wants

I’m not stopping her.

[sassy69]

Lol.. I said *what god intended you to be*... women are designed to be , eh, female. The males opposite. Pumping yourself full male hormones, becoming muscular, masculine, like a male.. goes against the intended design, as I see it. That is what I meant.

That’s one of the reasons the bikini look will be hugely successful, the look remains feminine. Which is what women were intended to be. Gloriously feminine..

God probably doesn’t give a shit about a lot of things, looking at what happens in the world. But I really don’t know.


If you want to get all 'what god intended' -- for eons, women have been the packhorses of the human race. I'm guessing hauling 100 lb of water in a jar on your head for 15 miles / day is probably a little more 'mass building than a 50 meter farmers walk. Or beating rugs or laundry on a rock for 6 hrs a day every week is probably a little more mass building than doing lumberjack pulls on a cable machine.

Its actually a relic of the Victorian age that women are supposed to be all pristine and shit.

[Triple-H_2005]

And I'm still waiting to be told again about how hard the T&A, I mean, bikini girls train...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/in-the-trenches/2987-bikini-back-workout-with-ellen-beckner.html

[james001]

If you want to get all 'what god intended' -- for eons, women have been the packhorses of the human race.

Interesting.. have these women had to shave the stubble from their faces twice a day as well? I’m sure this is all part of gods master plan :yep:



I'm guessing hauling 100 lb of water in a jar on your head for 15 miles / day is probably a little more 'mass building than a 50 meter farmers walk. Or beating rugs or laundry on a rock for 6 hrs a day every week is probably a little more mass building than doing lumberjack pulls on a cable machine.

Its actually a relic of the Victorian age that women are supposed to be all pristine and shit.

LOL.. that is all.

[wenzel]

And I'm still waiting to be told again about how hard the T&A, I mean, bikini girls train...



http://www.youtube.com/user/Janafunvideos#p/a/u/1/CwRcaAM5t3c

bikini workout

[Triple-H_2005]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Janafunvideos#p/a/u/1/CwRcaAM5t3c

bikini workout

You fucker! I spit out a mouthfull of water!:p

[sassy69]

Interesting.. have these women had to shave the stubble from their faces twice a day as well? I’m sure this is all part of gods master plan :yep:



Just like guys are supposed to have tits my friend.

[Triple-H_2005]

Just like guys are supposed to have tits my friend.

I believe that effectively ends this particular part of the discussion...:byeb:

[james001]

I believe that effectively ends this particular part of the discussion...:byeb:

Get real... but, there are more important things to dwell on -

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0208.jpg

[sassy69]

My primary complaint is w/ the category and its presentation - seriously - if you saw that picture just as is, no context, what would you think it was about? Physique? Probably not. Ass? Yep. Ass for sale? Possibly.

[RosemarysBaby]

Get real... but, there are more important things to dwell on -

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0208.jpg

there's a lamp post missing from this picture....

[Curt James]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Janafunvideos#p/a/u/1/CwRcaAM5t3c

bikini workout


You fucker! I spit out a mouthfull of water!:p

Light weight!

[wenzel]

Light weight!
yes...she was allready tired from the heavy squats

[Curt James]

Just like guys are supposed to have tits my friend.

But only with permission!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/Rx/grope.jpg

[Curt James]

yes...she was allready tired from the heavy squats

:eek: Incredible.

[Triple-H_2005]

Get real... but, there are more important things to dwell on -

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0208.jpg

I am very real... Unless you can come up with a better argument, it's done.

That said, you posted a GREAT pic of the new "Somebody Give Me The High Hard One" mandatory pose that is helping make Bikini the respected showcase of hard-training athletes that it is surely meant to be!

Thanks for helping to prove my point, I do appreciate it.

[wenzel]

Light weight!


yes...she was allready tired from the heavy squats

YouTube- JANA LINKE-SIPPL

[HammerStrength12]

Just like guys are supposed to have tits my friend.

At least that can be changed through surgery byeb:

Sorry, that was a dick statement but I couldn't resist. I don't believe in god and nor do I believe that any specimen was pre-destined to live up to a certain ideal. Nobody was "intended" to look a specific way. If anything I respect women bodybuilders more for being different despite the fact that it's not the look everyone strives for, like what you see in bikini. One of my good friends is female and getting a phd from Columbia in electrical engineering. Most would tell her that it's not "feminine" and 100 years ago I'm sure everyone would say that women aren't supposed to be education. But I think she's awesome because of that.

That being said, I think its weak to be taking cheapshots at bikini girls like that. They never did anything to you. I haven't had time to watch much of the videos yet, all I saw was a girl doing lat pulldowns with 5 plates - is that really that bad? She's lifting, that's all that matters. I could find 10 things I don't like about the way someone's training in those iron asylum videos, but I'd never do that. Plenty of bikini girls keep journals on here. Read those if you're not convinced they work hard

[james001]

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0203.jpg


I am very real... Unless you can come up with a better argument, it's done.

Sure I could, plenty of ammo.. but it would be fruitless. I’m not that interested in arguing about women taking male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals. Its their body, they can do whatever they want with it.

These Bikini women are feminine, statuesque beauties.. nothing less.

[HammerStrength12]

And I'm still waiting to be told again about how hard the T&A, I mean, bikini girls train...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/in-the-trenches/2987-bikini-back-workout-with-ellen-beckner.html

You seem like a good guy and all/I like your posts a lot. But that's just a lowblow man

[bodyhard]

I don't get it, these women are fucking hot, what is the argument again?:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused:

Are you guys seriously telling me you don't want to see these women on stage?:dunno:


:no::no::no:

[sassy69]

I don't get it, these women are fucking hot, what is the argument again?:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused:

Are you guys seriously telling me you don't want to see these women on stage?:dunno:


:no::no::no:


THe other reality, is that, like figure, Bikini is a Loooooooooooooong section of a show to sit thru.

[sassy69]

At least that can be changed through surgery byeb:

Sorry, that was a dick statement but I couldn't resist. I don't believe in god and nor do I believe that any specimen was pre-destined to live up to a certain ideal. Nobody was "intended" to look a specific way. If anything I respect women bodybuilders more for being different despite the fact that it's not the look everyone strives for, like what you see in bikini. One of my good friends is female and getting a phd from Columbia in electrical engineering. Most would tell her that it's not "feminine" and 100 years ago I'm sure everyone would say that women aren't supposed to be education. But I think she's awesome because of that.

That being said, I think its weak to be taking cheapshots at bikini girls like that. They never did anything to you. I haven't had time to watch much of the videos yet, all I saw was a girl doing lat pulldowns with 5 plates - is that really that bad? She's lifting, that's all that matters. I could find 10 things I don't like about the way someone's training in those iron asylum videos, but I'd never do that. Plenty of bikini girls keep journals on here. Read those if you're not convinced they work hard


I'm not taking cheap shots at anyone. I've stated my biggest issue is w/ the competition itself and not the competitors. I think its a little disingenuous to tell me a 20 yr old bikini girl has spent as many years as I have lifting to develop a physique that is worth bringing to stage. The goals are different so you just cant' sit there and tell me that the 10 yrs I've spent since my first competition working on a BB physique, in addition to the 19 yrs I spent lifting before I even knew you could compete, is the same amount of work as is requried by a bikini girl. The amount of work most are talking about when they say "I train as hard as ..." is the 16 weeks before a show. That is the difference between the categories - the growth time. Which is fine, but you can't tell me, hour for hour, volume for volume that a bikini girl has trained as much as a BB.


Yes it was a dick statement - I'm not particularly excited to be throwing shit back at the guys who cycle here - but again, why its such a big fat fuckin' OMG for women, but the number of guys on this board who have developed gyno because they don't even know how to cycle is sorta silly. Let's keep things fair here.

I'm hoping to keep things in perspective. I respect any woman who puts her heart and soul into the gym and developing a better physique and a stronger sense of self. But to get into this whole "this is better because its more mainstream, its what guys want to look at, what the whole friggen world aspires to" to justify Bikini is BS. It exists because it is currently popular and it makes money. And BTW, the Bikini girls are probably injecting more money per competitor than a Figure or BB because they are entering multiple shows over the course of the year (also pointing to the fact that a Bikini shape does not require as much work to achieve and present within one season if its possible to execute so many shows in one season.

[james001]

I'm not taking cheap shots at anyone.

You would never..


Physique? Probably not. Ass? Yep. Ass for sale? Possibly.

You guys have been liking the bikini gals to strippers, hooters girls.. even prostitutes.

Hilarious.

[Lann1011]

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0203.jpg



Sure I could, plenty of ammo.. but it would be fruitless. I’m not that interested in arguing about women taking male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals. Its their body, they can do whatever they want with it.

These Bikini women are feminine, statuesque beauties.. nothing less.


Almost all the girls shown look like figure models.. they have rounded shoulders, back muscles, bigger calves... When Krystal Marshall got her pro card she almost had a 6 pack.. they are just blurring the lines between figure and bikini...

[wenzel]

Almost all the girls shown look like figure models.. they have rounded shoulders, back muscles, bigger calves... When Krystal Marshall got her pro card she almost had a 6 pack.. they are just blurring the lines between figure and bikini...

you are right...figure is also a joke

[HammerStrength12]

you are right...figure is also a joke

The inconsistency and constant changing of the judging is a joke. If you're saying figure girls are a joke, now that's a dickish comment to make

[Triple-H_2005]

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0203.jpg



Sure I could, plenty of ammo.. but it would be fruitless. I’m not that interested in arguing about women taking male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals. Its their body, they can do whatever they want with it.

These Bikini women are feminine, statuesque beauties.. nothing less.

They sure are...and they belong at the beach or at a bar.

[Triple-H_2005]

You seem like a good guy and all/I like your posts a lot. But that's just a lowblow man

Low blow?

How so?

She's "competing".
She filmed to be put up online.
She's going to turn "Pro" (just ask her).
She has it all.

So please, tell me how that's low and how hard these bikini chicks train again....please?

[HammerStrength12]

I'm not taking cheap shots at anyone. I've stated my biggest issue is w/ the competition itself and not the competitors. I think its a little disingenuous to tell me a 20 yr old bikini girl has spent as many years as I have lifting to develop a physique that is worth bringing to stage. The goals are different so you just cant' sit there and tell me that the 10 yrs I've spent since my first competition working on a BB physique, in addition to the 19 yrs I spent lifting before I even knew you could compete, is the same amount of work as is requried by a bikini girl. The amount of work most are talking about when they say "I train as hard as ..." is the 16 weeks before a show. That is the difference between the categories - the growth time. Which is fine, but you can't tell me, hour for hour, volume for volume that a bikini girl has trained as much as a BB.


Yes it was a dick statement - I'm not particularly excited to be throwing shit back at the guys who cycle here - but again, why its such a big fat fuckin' OMG for women, but the number of guys on this board who have developed gyno because they don't even know how to cycle is sorta silly. Let's keep things fair here.

I'm hoping to keep things in perspective. I respect any woman who puts her heart and soul into the gym and developing a better physique and a stronger sense of self. But to get into this whole "this is better because its more mainstream, its what guys want to look at, what the whole friggen world aspires to" to justify Bikini is BS. It exists because it is currently popular and it makes money. And BTW, the Bikini girls are probably injecting more money per competitor than a Figure or BB because they are entering multiple shows over the course of the year (also pointing to the fact that a Bikini shape does not require as much work to achieve and present within one season if its possible to execute so many shows in one season.

How do you think I feel when I see 17 year old football players in my gym reppin 3 plates on the bench and squatting 4 plates for reps? Took me almost 10 years to get there, so yeah, I think it's disingenuous to hear that they work harder than me. When I know that they're obviously taking short cuts to get there.... The situation isn't really much different.

Like I said, I mostly agree with what you are saying. Obviously there's no use arguing over the little things, so lets just leave it at that.

[Triple-H_2005]

The inconsistency and constant changing of the judging is a joke. If you're saying figure girls are a joke, now that's a dickish comment to make
I think we finally agree on something!

The way they've watered it down is a joke.

The fact that Nicole Wilkins-Lee is the current Olympia champ is a joke.

Bikini further waters down the competitions and also, is a joke.

[HammerStrength12]

Low blow?

How so?

She's "competing".
She filmed to be put up online.
She's going to turn "Pro" (just ask her).
She has it all.

So please, tell me how that's low and how hard these bikini chicks train again....please?


She obviously works hard and diets hard to look the way she does. Why do you have to criticize it. Just sayin...

If you someone who does INTENSE workouts, check out this gal, chastity sloan http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/index.php?contest=74&year=71&bodybuilder=4485#3

She does crossfit workouts as the bulk of her training. Before you go sayin "but she's figure," she trains plenty of bikini girls the same way. And that shit is WAY harder than DC, German Volumizing, 5/3/1 or any of the crazy training programs I've tried. I really don't want to argue about this any more

Peace.. I'm done w/ this thread

[HammerStrength12]

I think we finally agree on something!

The way they've watered it down is a joke.

The fact that Nicole Wilkins-Lee is the current Olympia champ is a joke.

Bikini further waters down the competitions and also, is a joke.

No, I actually agree with 90% of what you've said in this thread so far. It's really only the training vids/comparisons to hooters girls I disagree with

[Lann1011]

you are right...figure is also a joke


Good to know I am dieting, doing an hour of cardio a day, and lifting so heavy that I got a pinched nerve all for a joke...

I love competing, and I bet you don't. Sour puss!

[Triple-H_2005]

^ Blah, blah, blah...

Looking forward to your thread defending Crossfit folks as the ultimate in workout intensity.

That wasn't at you, Lann!
Figure IS legit...and would be more so if they'd actually reward the best physiques!

[HammerStrength12]

^ Blah, blah, blah...

Looking forward to your thread defending Crossfit folks as the ultimate in workout intensity.

I am NOT a fan of crossfit, but it's silly to deny that it's really hard stuff. You gotta admit that she works damn hard, gimme that at least lol

[james001]

Almost all the girls shown look like figure models.. they have rounded shoulders, back muscles, bigger calves...

Yes, and they train their asses off for that body.

[Marcus]

I can't wait to see some strippers, porn stars and hookers competing at this bikini division. Then, everybody is going to realize it was a bad idea. If you want to see ass you buy playboy, if you want to see females on stage you hit a strip joint.
Also, this bull shit about them working out, strippers grind cock, hookers ride cock.
Once you hit the stage and show your ass to 500 people you are officially on sale.

how much??????????????????????

[Mr.Bones]

I can't wait to see some strippers, porn stars and hookers competing at this bikini division. Then, everybody is going to realize it was a bad idea. If you want to see ass you buy playboy, if you want to see females on stage you hit a strip joint.
Also, this bull shit about them working out, strippers grind cock, hookers ride cock.
Once you hit the stage and show your ass to 500 people you are officially on sale.

how much??????????????????????


lol @ your logic

[sassy69]

http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/%7Ephotos/869/Bikini/comps/Bikini/869rb0203.jpg



Sure I could, plenty of ammo.. but it would be fruitless. I’m not that interested in arguing about women taking male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals. Its their body, they can do whatever they want with it.

These Bikini women are feminine, statuesque beauties.. nothing less.

So if any of those competiters were using male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals (btw, trannies can be pretty fuckin' hot...) you'd still consider them feminine, statuesque beauties, nothing less?

[AnneP]

Yeh, figure is brilliant thing. What makes it joke is that the best physiques are not always awarded. I dont understand why why it is so difficult to put the girls in right order based on muscular development, conditioning, symmetry, structure, lines, balance, definition etc etc very known criteria. They get lost when they start to think these "too hard" and "too muscular" things.

Yes, many brings up roids. ALways. Like here. Many defend bikini because in bikini girls dont have to take roids. Let me say - you do not need roids in any division. That is a personal choice you do. Some will always replace 10 years of hard work and being talent with roids. Some will use them even in bikini, like many bikini girls have told themselves. And to try to delete that "problem" from the sport by punishing very talented and hard-working women is retarded. If IFBB / NPC is so worried about roid issues, get those damn doping controls in my country, figure and fitness girls are tested YEAR AROUND, in other words, if you wanna compete during the year, you can be tested during whole year, also in your off season. And actually they do those tests.Ok, does not mean noone uses but makes it a bit more difficult.. The whole idea of professional sport goes upside down if you place lower because you are too good?!

2009 Arnold was a big joke, Zivile winning over Aliotti. Last years olympia was a joke and so was this years Figure International. Nothing against Nicole, I still LOVE the package she showed 2008. But as long as the results base on something else than the fact that someone is better physique wise than the others, it is a joke. There goes bikini lost too.

What it comes to bikini .. well the thing is not actually if they work hard or not. Actually, to "work hard" is subjective. And secondly, if someone cuts +50lbs fat to be able to do bikini, I am sure she has worked extreme hard. At the same time, if you are freaking talented, you dont have to possibly lift weights at all to bikini. The question is what is required. In bikini, requirements are NILL if we are looking at it from the point of view of professional sport what it should be being part of IFBB. And that is the problem.

One argument which often rises is that "hey these girls are hot, who wouldnt want to watch them on stage?". Yeh.. I do like hot men too. But if I wanna watch them sexually, I do it somewhere else, not in a bodybulding contest. This is and should be sport. These girls should be athletes and represent it on stage. If they dont show in their physques that they are athletes (having no muscles, no conditioning) and they pose and walk like ******, how they can even expect taken seriously? At least I do take my sport seriously.

But yeh, like someone said, bikini is probably here to stay. But personally, I never acccept it. I ve also done decision not to cover bikini contests. I am giving all the coverage rather to super hard workers whose hard work is also seen in their bodies. I rather give sponsorships to those who represent what this federation SHOULD BE all about - physique excellance.

[leslierae]

what i find so interesting is the current Miss Michigan who was just crowned Miss USA, Rima Fakih, had just done and won a bikini contest...it doesn't get anymore mainstream than crossing the IFBB/NPC with Miss USA! http://www.hardbody.com/news/2010/05/20/npc-bikini-competitor-crowned-miss-usa/

[Ross Erstling]

Yeh, figure is brilliant thing. What makes it joke is that the best physiques are not always awarded. I dont understand why why it is so difficult to put the girls in right order based on muscular development, conditioning, symmetry, structure, lines, balance, definition etc etc very known criteria. They get lost when they start to think these "too hard" and "too muscular" things.

Yes, many brings up roids. ALways. Like here. Many defend bikini because in bikini girls dont have to take roids. Let me say - you do not need roids in any division. That is a personal choice you do. Some will always replace 10 years of hard work and being talent with roids. Some will use them even in bikini, like many bikini girls have told themselves. And to try to delete that "problem" from the sport by punishing very talented and hard-working women is retarded. If IFBB / NPC is so worried about roid issues, get those damn doping controls in my country, figure and fitness girls are tested YEAR AROUND, in other words, if you wanna compete during the year, you can be tested during whole year, also in your off season. And actually they do those tests.Ok, does not mean noone uses but makes it a bit more difficult.. The whole idea of professional sport goes upside down if you place lower because you are too good?!

2009 Arnold was a big joke, Zivile winning over Aliotti. Last years olympia was a joke and so was this years Figure International. Nothing against Nicole, I still LOVE the package she showed 2008. But as long as the results base on something else than the fact that someone is better physique wise than the others, it is a joke. There goes bikini lost too.

What it comes to bikini .. well the thing is not actually if they work hard or not. Actually, to "work hard" is subjective. And secondly, if someone cuts +50lbs fat to be able to do bikini, I am sure she has worked extreme hard. (1.)At the same time, if you are freaking talented, you dont have to possibly lift weights at all to bikini. The question is what is required. In bikini, requirements are NILL if we are looking at it from the point of view of professional sport what it should be being part of IFBB. And that is the problem.

One argument which often rises is that "hey these girls are hot, who wouldnt want to watch them on stage?". Yeh.. I do like hot men too. But if I wanna watch them sexually, (2.)I do it somewhere else, not in a bodybulding contest. This is and should be sport. These girls should be athletes and represent it on stage. If they dont show in their physques that they are athletes (having no muscles, no conditioning) and they pose and walk like ******, how they can even expect taken seriously? At least I do take my sport seriously.

But yeh, like someone said, bikini is probably here to stay. But personally, I never acccept it. I ve also done decision not to cover bikini contests. I am giving all the coverage rather to super hard workers whose hard work is also seen in their bodies. I rather give sponsorships to those who represent what this federation SHOULD BE all about - physique excellance.

You have a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of BODYBUILDING--both, as an ART-FORM and a SPORT.

Most girls can work out for 20 YEARS and still never attain the balance, shape, and muscularity that these beautiful bikini girls have! If you saw a bikini girl in a bar, you'd know that she is a FITNESS FREAK and is in the gym just as much as you are! These bitches DIET HARD almost all year-round, they always maintain aesthetics, at all costs.

Bodybuilding does NOT mean "Muscle Building". MUSCLE-BUILDING is simply ONE aspect of bodybuilding, it is not the sole objective of bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is defined by the various training and dieting methods that alter body composition in order to create an aesthetic physique. Even more important than the amount of muscle mass an individual has, is the shape, balance, symmetry and clarity of each muscle group and all of the groups combined.

**(1.) This statement that you made(highlighted in RED above) is just ignorant and FOOLISH. You REALLY believe that these girls don't have to lift weights!? They lift JUST AS FREQUENTLY AS YOU DO, they just train differently, using lighter weights, different exercises, and more repetitions!! How DARE you say that bikini girls "don't have to lift weights"! YOU JUST LOST ALL RESPECT! These bikini girls are JACKED! When the judges say "no muscle", they are speaking in RELATIVE TERMS! The figure girls have TOO MUCH MUSCLE for the bikini category, plain and simple.

**(2.) These bikini girls BELONG on stage, they work just as hard as figure girls do, and look better!!

[RosemarysBaby]

You have a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of BODYBUILDING--both, as an ART-FORM and a SPORT.

Most girls can work out for 20 YEARS and still never attain the balance, shape, and muscularity that these beautiful bikini girls have! If you saw a bikini girl in a bar, you'd know that she is a FITNESS FREAK and is in the gym just as much as you are! These bitches DIET HARD almost all year-round, they always maintain aesthetics, at all costs.

Bodybuilding does NOT mean "Muscle Building". MUSCLE-BUILDING is simply ONE aspect of bodybuilding, it is not the sole objective of bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is defined by the various training and dieting methods that alter body composition in order to create an aesthetic physique. Even more important than the amount of muscle mass an individual has, is the shape, balance, symmetry and clarity of each muscle group and all of the groups combined.

**(1.) This statement that you made(highlighted in RED above) is just ignorant and FOOLISH. You REALLY believe that these girls don't have to lift weights!? They lift JUST AS FREQUENTLY AS YOU DO, they just train differently, using lighter weights, different exercises, and more repetitions!! How DARE you say that bikini girls "don't have to lift weights"! YOU JUST LOST ALL RESPECT! These bikini girls are JACKED! When the judges say "no muscle", they are speaking in RELATIVE TERMS! The figure girls have TOO MUCH MUSCLE for the bikini category, plain and simple.

**(2.) These bikini girls BELONG on stage, they work just as hard as figure girls do, and look better!!

Wow, you really respect those bikini bitches, er, divas ;)

[Ross Erstling]

Wow, you really respect those bikini bitches, er, divas ;)

Here in Jersey, "bitches" is not a derogatory word. ;)

[Suzanne]

You have a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of BODYBUILDING--both, as an ART-FORM and a SPORT.

Most girls can work out for 20 YEARS and still never attain the balance, shape, and muscularity that these beautiful bikini girls have! If you saw a bikini girl in a bar, you'd know that she is a FITNESS FREAK and is in the gym just as much as you are! These bitches DIET HARD almost all year-round, they always maintain aesthetics, at all costs.

Bodybuilding does NOT mean "Muscle Building". MUSCLE-BUILDING is simply ONE aspect of bodybuilding, it is not the sole objective of bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is defined by the various training and dieting methods that alter body composition in order to create an aesthetic physique. Even more important than the amount of muscle mass an individual has, is the shape, balance, symmetry and clarity of each muscle group and all of the groups combined.

**(1.) This statement that you made(highlighted in RED above) is just ignorant and FOOLISH. You REALLY believe that these girls don't have to lift weights!? They lift JUST AS FREQUENTLY AS YOU DO, they just train differently, using lighter weights, different exercises, and more repetitions!! How DARE you say that bikini girls "don't have to lift weights"! YOU JUST LOST ALL RESPECT! These bikini girls are JACKED! When the judges say "no muscle", they are speaking in RELATIVE TERMS! The figure girls have TOO MUCH MUSCLE for the bikini category, plain and simple.

**(2.) These bikini girls BELONG on stage, they work just as hard as figure girls do, and look better!!

work as hard??? are you fucking kidding!!!!!!!!!!!
squatting just the bar man that is hard
sldl with just the bar damn impressive
giggling and making stupid comments about being proposed to everyday while going through the motion of training back

more repetitions? try one of my volume leg days repetitions have nothing to do it

maybe you have never actually worked out hard

you have no clue! i know plenty of people who walk around YEAR ROUND with this look who eat what they want, sure they workout but nothing intense, they hangout with friends on the weekend and drink and look like this every day! oh and these ones i am talking about have all had kids

Sure some have to diet for this, some people have better genetics than others but bikini is a look that can be maintained year round with not a whole lot of effort.

and i bet they really love being referred to as bitches

these girls are JACKED?????

[Ross Erstling]

work as hard??? are you fucking kidding!!!!!!!!!!!
squatting just the bar man that is hard
sldl with just the bar damn impressive
giggling and making stupid comments about being proposed to everyday while going through the motion of training back

more repetitions? try one of my volume leg days repetitions have nothing to do it

maybe you have never actually worked out hard

you have no clue! i know plenty of people who walk around YEAR ROUND with this look who eat what they want, sure they workout but nothing intense, they hangout with friends on the weekend and drink and look like this every day! oh and these ones i am talking about have all had kids

Sure some have to diet for this, some people have better genetics than others but bikini is a look that can be maintained year round with not a whole lot of effort.

and i bet they really love being referred to as bitches

these girls are JACKED?????

POST SOME PICS OF THESE GIRLS! You don't know ANYONE that eats like shit year-round and has an IFBB PRO BIKINI GIRL BODY!!! LOLLLL YOU JUST LOST ALL RESPECT AS WELL, you jealous lil kitty kat..

Bikini is NOT a look that can be maintained with no effort!! LOOK AT THEM!! THEY ARE AWESOME! These girls train hard but DIFFERENTLY than figure girls, with more of an emphasis on shape, tone, and balance and less of a focus on muscle mass.

Yes, these girls are "JACKED" compared to ANY NORMAL GIRL. Anything bigger than them is a FREAK.

[sassy69]

Ross do you actual KNOW any IFBB Pro Bikini girls or is this all utopian idealization?

[Ross Erstling]

Ross do you actual KNOW any IFBB Pro Bikini girls or is this all utopian idealization?

It doesn't matter who I know, and even more importantly, I don't give a SHIT about their "attitudes". Only a girl would complain about such a thing, this is a damn competition...

[james001]

So if any of those competiters were using male hormones and turning themselves into half assed transsexuals (btw, trannies can be pretty fuckin' hot...) you'd still consider them feminine, statuesque beauties, nothing less?

Its painfully obvious that bikini competitors are not turning themselves into half assed transsexuals, get real.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a bit of anavar/primo or t3/clen or low dose gh coursing through the veins of a few contestants.

Whatever the case may be, the drug use of a bikini competitor is far removed from this type of use -

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000891533/a_women_bodybuilder_trainwreck_16_xlarge.jpeg

Get the picture?

Fact is they remain feminine. So, whatever they’re doing, they’re doing it right.

Trannies.. some of them are hot, I agree. Ironically, it’s the *male to female* transsexuals who end up hot. The female to male transitions never work out very well.

[Ross Erstling]

These girls have great MUSCULARITY, while still remaining feminine. In addition, they are not DEPLETED, they are full and shapely.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14131/0/d/img_00451272902052.jpg

[Nic Brunicardi]

Feminine, beautiful and muscular FTW! (but of course - she didn't have to work as hard as a bikini pro)

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/115/l_5952557b271b99e9e3596cfc4b36fcbb.jpg

[Ross Erstling]

Feminine, beautiful and muscular FTW! (but of course - she didn't have to work as hard as a bikini pro)



AHHHHH! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? SHE IS HIDEOUS!!
http://worldofpress.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/lenda-murray.jpg

[sassy69]

It doesn't matter who I know, and even more importantly, I don't give a SHIT about their "attitudes". Only a girl would complain about such a thing, this is a damn competition...


It does sorta matter because otherwise you're making unfounded assumptions and running around evangelizing like its the second Coming.

That's why I keep saying Ross, get a grip. Keep things in perspective.

[sassy69]

Its painfully obvious that bikini competitors are not turning themselves into half assed transsexuals, get real.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a bit of anavar/primo or t3/clen or low dose gh coursing through the veins of a few contestants.

Whatever the case may be, the drug use of a bikini competitor is far removed from this type of use -

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000891533/a_women_bodybuilder_trainwreck_16_xlarge.jpeg

Get the picture?

Fact is they remain feminine. So, whatever they’re doing, they’re doing it right.

Trannies.. some of them are hot, I agree. Ironically, it’s the *male to female* transsexuals who end up hot. The female to male transitions never work out very well.


The comments you're making are implying that anyone using steroids must be a complete androgenous freak. When, in fact, many women use, and IMO, abuse because they don't know jack shit about the foundation components of diet & training.

My point is that people assume things based on looks, when in fact, you can't tell me you can say who is & isn't using just based on looks every freaking time. The associations people make are based on broad-sweeping, stereotypical comments, and just continue to push women further & further into nothing more than "fuckable" or "not".

[Nic Brunicardi]

AHHHHH! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? SHE IS HIDEOUS!!

You just found the least flattering pic of her. There are plenty of great shots of her. Alas, I know that this will soon be a futile discussion once your new federation is dominating the world of figure and bodybuilding.

[Ross Erstling]

You just found the least flattering pic of her. There are plenty of great shots of her. Alas, I know that this will soon be a futile discussion once your new federation is dominating the world of figure and bodybuilding.

And you found her most flattering pic, where she could pass for a bikini girl--ALMOST. The truth is, she turned herself in to a FREAK..

[james001]

The comments you're making are implying that anyone using steroids must be a complete androgenous freak.


Its painfully obvious that bikini competitors are not turning themselves into half assed transsexuals, get real.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a bit of anavar/primo or t3/clen or low dose gh coursing through the veins of a few contestants.

Whatever the case may be, the drug use of a bikini competitor is far removed from this type of use -

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000891533/a_women_bodybuilder_trainwreck_16_xlarge.jpeg

Get the picture?

Fact is they remain feminine. So, whatever they’re doing, they’re doing it right.

Please re read my comments.

[sassy69]

I was referring to your original comment, as that is how I read it and most people will read it given the general attitude toward any woman who has any amount of muscle or is even dieted down for competition.

[Ross Erstling]

I was referring to your original comment, as that is how I read it and most people will read it given the general attitude toward any woman who has any amount of muscle or is even dieted down for competition.

Oh STOP! Women have not evolved to build significant amounts of muscle mass and they do not have the hormones to support such muscle growth! A natural girl can train for 20 years and will never get "BULKY". Women do not produce testosterone--PERIOD!

I don't care if bikini girls use a lil bit of Anavar or Primobolan, who gives a shit? As long as they maintain their femininity it doesn't matter at all.

The attitude towards EXTREMELY muscular women will remain very unfavorable because extremely muscular women do not OCCUR IN NATURE! To the average person, they are FREAKS, and regarded as disgusting.

[wenzel]

Women do not produce testosterone--PERIOD!


as i said before: you are an idiot !

women produce testosterone...even more if they work out hard (hard...not bikini style)...
and also they produce hgh...even more with if they eat a higher amount of protein

[Ross Erstling]

as i said before: you are an idiot !

women produce testosterone...even more if they work out hard (hard...not bikini style)...
and also they produce hgh...even more with if they eat a higher amount of protein

Women produce INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF TESTOSTERONE, with or without exercise.

[HammerStrength12]

as i said before: you are an idiot !

women produce testosterone...even more if they work out hard (hard...not bikini style)...
and also they produce hgh...even more with if they eat a higher amount of protein

I've given you evidence that there are bikini girls do indeed work damn hard. Hateurrrrr

[wenzel]

i've given you evidence that there are bikini girls do indeed work damn hard. Hateurrrrr

if they would work hard, they would be fbb