Need biceps

[DUKE56]

I DO CURLS TILL I'M BLUE IN THE FACE AND NO BICEPS. I UNDERSTAND I'M OLDER BUT MY TRICEPS GREW PRETTY GOOD. WHAT AM I MISSING ?:dunno:

[Mac]

Post what your typically do for your biceps. I am older too and my biceps are still growing, albeit slowly, but they're getting better with age.

[bodyhard]

I DO CURLS TILL I'M BLUE IN THE FACE AND NO BICEPS. I UNDERSTAND I'M OLDER BUT MY TRICEPS GREW PRETTY GOOD. WHAT AM I MISSING ?:dunno:


Did it ever occur to you, maybe you are doing too much curls? The bicep is a small muscle, it is also targeted when you do back. Post your routine let us take a look at it.

[DUKE56]

Post what your typically do for your biceps. I am older too and my biceps are still growing, albeit slowly, but they're getting better with age.

MONDAY
DB incline bench 30 lb x 10 X 4
db bench same as incline
hammer curls
30 lb X 10 X 4
sitting shrugs
40 lb x 10 x4
cable tricep with V bar
120 lb X 10 X 4 (keep in mind that I work up from 90 lbs to this weight 1 set of 10 till I get to 120 lbs)
2 sets of 20 each side, side dips
1 set of 15 with 25 lb plate each side
1 set front dips
3 sets of 15 hanging leg raisers
WEDNESDAY
Cable rows working up from 100 to 120 or 130 lbs 4 sets of 10
cable pull downs working up to 100 from 90 lbs then 4 sets of 10
cable tricep V bar same as Monday
cable curls 1 set of 10 each up to 100 lbs try for 4 sets of 10
sitting shrugs 40 lbs x 10 x 4
torso machine 2 sets of 20 each side 80 lbs
crunch machine 2 sets of 20 @ 120 lbs
THE REST OF THE WEEK EXCEPT FRIDAY IS CORE AND CARDIO WORK. I WILL BE INCLUDING MORE LEG AND BACK WORK ON THOSE DAYS.
I ALSO WALK ABOUT 2 MILES A DAY AT LUNCH.
MY WEIGHT LAST NIGHT WAS 193.6, THAT IS DOWN FROM 206 WHEN I STARTED THE DIET/EXCERSISE ROUTINE.:yep:
THANKS GUYS

[DUKE56]

did it ever occur to you, maybe you are doing too much curls? The bicep is a small muscle, it is also targeted when you do back. Post your routine let us take a look at it.
i wanted to include your post in my reply but couldn't figure out how to do it. I don't want you to think i'm ignoring you.

[taxguy]

Hammer curls, while a good exercise, don't speifically work the biceps.

I would drop the cable curls if you want growth and do either staight or ez curl bar curls with as heavy weight as possible for your four sets. Keep the elbow tucked into your sides, no momentum or swinging.

Personally, I would alter the whole schedule by moving your Wednesday workout to Thursday to get two recovery days between workouts.

Another note, change the exercises around occasionally. Don't be married to a particular movement. For example, do dumbell curls instead of barbell curls occasionally.

Cables never built huge guns.

[Mac]

Hammer curls, while a good exercise, don't speifically work the biceps.

Cables never built huge guns.

I don't know how I got my biceps then? I have made mine bigger from using cables. Just have to do it right.

Exactly what muscle does a hammer curl work if not the biceps and brachioradialis ?

[DUKE56]

hammer curls, while a good exercise, don't speifically work the biceps.

I would drop the cable curls if you want growth and do either staight or ez curl bar curls with as heavy weight as possible for your four sets. Keep the elbow tucked into your sides, no momentum or swinging.

Personally, i would alter the whole schedule by moving your wednesday workout to thursday to get two recovery days between workouts.

Another note, change the exercises around occasionally. Don't be married to a particular movement. For example, do dumbell curls instead of barbell curls occasionally.

Cables never built huge guns.

Are you talking about the muscle confusion, yeah, it works i've tried it before and it does work. Good idea, i should do it more often. Thanks.

[DUKE56]

I don't know how I got my biceps then? I have made mine bigger from using cables. Just have to do it right.

Exactly what muscle does a hammer curl work if not the biceps and brachioradialis ?

YOU SAY YOU JUST HAVE TO DO IT RIGHT. COULD YOU GO INTO THAT PLEASE.
I GOT THE IDEA ABOUT HAMMERCURLS FROM A POWERLIFTING BUDDY OF MINE. HE'S BEEN AT THE GAME AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER. YOU I'M SURE HAVE BEEN AT IT LONGER THAN MYSELF AND I VALUE ANY INFORMATION THAT IS GIVEN. :shake:

[taxguy]

I don't know how I got my biceps then? I have made mine bigger from using cables. Just have to do it right.

Exactly what muscle does a hammer curl work if not the biceps and brachioradialis ?

In general, most folks, especially beginners would be wise to use free weights rather than cables. That is my opinion, just like you have yours. I don't think your find anyone advised a routine lacking a basic free weight curl for someone looking to add size to their bicep.

As far as the hammer curl, I actually do them most workouts and really like them. However, they are primarily for the brachioradialis (I assume you spelled ir right cause I sure can't), which is a smaller muscle lying underneath the biceps. So, if you want size, do the basic exercise first and worry about the little stuff later.

I'm sure your a more advanced lifter than the op and the cables work fine for you, but you can have them. I'll take the barbells and dumbells, maybe throw in some cable work occassionally.

[joedemarco]

In general, most folks, especially beginners would be wise to use free weights rather than cables. That is my opinion, just like you have yours. I don't think your find anyone advised a routine lacking a basic free weight curl for someone looking to add size to their bicep.

As far as the hammer curl, I actually do them most workouts and really like them. However, they are primarily for the brachioradialis (I assume you spelled ir right cause I sure can't), which is a smaller muscle lying underneath the biceps. So, if you want size, do the basic exercise first and worry about the little stuff later.

I'm sure your a more advanced lifter than the op and the cables work fine for you, but you can have them. I'll take the barbells and dumbells, maybe throw in some cable work occassionally.

When it comes to biceps, you only have one basic movement....elbow flexion(technically two - supination of the hand). Therefore, any curling motion is going to work the bicep. I've always found curling motions, involving cables, to be very effective. I actually prefer it to regular standing barbell curls. What ever you choose to do, to go about hitting your biceps, the key is to use good form and get a good contraction on each rep.

[taxguy]

When it comes to biceps, you only have one basic movement....elbow flexion(technically two - supination of the hand). Therefore, any curling motion is going to work the bicep. I've always found curling motions, involving cables, to be very effective. I actually prefer it to regular standing barbell curls. What ever you choose to do, to go about hitting your biceps, the key is to use good form and get a good contraction on each rep.

I understand your point, but i have found quite the opposite to be true. Heavy (6-8) reps with good form (no swinging, elbows tight) is what I have to do to make my biceps grow. My biceps have been a very stubborn muscle group, but that is what has worked for me. However, in his situation, what he is doing is not working. So, if the form is ok, maybe a change in exercises is needed. As you know, there are no absolutes in this game.

[taxguy]

When it comes to biceps, you only have one basic movement....elbow flexion(technically two - supination of the hand). Therefore, any curling motion is going to work the bicep. I've always found curling motions, involving cables, to be very effective. I actually prefer it to regular standing barbell curls. What ever you choose to do, to go about hitting your biceps, the key is to use good form and get a good contraction on each rep.

I forgot to mention, I think your point about the contraction is a very good one. No matter what exercise you choose, you gotta get a good contraction for growth. One advantage that I will give to the cable curl is the contenuous tension aspect at the top of the rep.

[DUKE56]

Thanks guys i think everyone has a good point and i appreciate everyone's input. I'll try a few different thing and post the results i get. Thanks again.

[Mac]

You listed 4 sets of cable curls and 4 sets of hammer curls. That isn't enough volume.

Add some DB concentration curls, seated incline DB curls and reverse curls.

I need higher rep sets than just 10, but I also do heavy 4-5 rep sets.

[bodyhard]

MONDAY
DB incline bench 30 lb x 10 X 4
db bench same as incline
hammer curls
30 lb X 10 X 4
sitting shrugs
40 lb x 10 x4
cable tricep with V bar
120 lb X 10 X 4 (keep in mind that I work up from 90 lbs to this weight 1 set of 10 till I get to 120 lbs)
2 sets of 20 each side, side dips
1 set of 15 with 25 lb plate each side
1 set front dips
3 sets of 15 hanging leg raisers
WEDNESDAY
Cable rows working up from 100 to 120 or 130 lbs 4 sets of 10
cable pull downs working up to 100 from 90 lbs then 4 sets of 10
cable tricep V bar same as Monday
cable curls 1 set of 10 each up to 100 lbs try for 4 sets of 10
sitting shrugs 40 lbs x 10 x 4
torso machine 2 sets of 20 each side 80 lbs
crunch machine 2 sets of 20 @ 120 lbs
THE REST OF THE WEEK EXCEPT FRIDAY IS CORE AND CARDIO WORK. I WILL BE INCLUDING MORE LEG AND BACK WORK ON THOSE DAYS.
I ALSO WALK ABOUT 2 MILES A DAY AT LUNCH.
MY WEIGHT LAST NIGHT WAS 193.6, THAT IS DOWN FROM 206 WHEN I STARTED THE DIET/EXCERSISE ROUTINE.:yep:
THANKS GUYS

Am I missing something here? I don't really see any real bicep work on here at all..

Also if you work your back, i.e. Bent Over Rows, Pull-ups, Deadlifts, etc etc your biceps will get targeted as a secondary muscle on a compound movement.

With that said I don't see that many direct bicep exercises in your routine.

Direct Biceps Exercises
BB Curls
Alternate DB Curls
Seating incline DB Curls
Preacher Curls
Chin-Ups
Cable curls
Spider curls

[Mac]

I forgot to mention, I think your point about the contraction is a very good one. No matter what exercise you choose, you gotta get a good contraction for growth. One advantage that I will give to the cable curl is the contenuous tension aspect at the top of the rep.

I would say that Dave Palumbo and PJ Braun would disagree with you on cables building bigger arms.

Arm training (http://www.rxmuscle.com/videos/iatraining/1479-pj-braun-and-juan-diesel-morel-arm-annihilation.html)

[DUKE56]

you listed 4 sets of cable curls and 4 sets of hammer curls. That isn't enough volume.

Add some db concentration curls, seated incline db curls and reverse curls.

I need higher rep sets than just 10, but i also do heavy 4-5 rep sets.

when I was able to bench heavy I cut back on the reps and went heaver. Is that part of the answer. I was under the assumption that high reps low weight was for lean muscle. So I need to do heavy weight low rep ?

[DUKE56]

am i missing something here? I don't really see any real bicep work on here at all..

Also if you work your back, i.e. Bent over rows, pull-ups, deadlifts, etc etc your biceps will get targeted as a secondary muscle on a compound movement.

With that said i don't see that many direct bicep exercises in your routine.

direct biceps exercises
bb curls
alternate db curls
seating incline db curls
preacher curls
chin-ups
cable curls
spider curls
i use to be a power lifter and we didn't do bicep at all. Tricep like crazy. I was just giving an idea of what my workout is right now. I don't know alot about bodybuilding. I'm trying to get a hand on it though.

[Mac]

when I was able to bench heavy I cut back on the reps and went heaver. Is that part of the answer. I was under the assumption that high reps low weight was for lean muscle. So I need to do heavy weight low rep ?

I use both. Volume and intensity is the key.

[The Big Sexy]

When it comes to biceps, you only have one basic movement....elbow flexion(technically two - supination of the hand). Therefore, any curling motion is going to work the bicep. I've always found curling motions, involving cables, to be very effective. I actually prefer it to regular standing barbell curls. What ever you choose to do, to go about hitting your biceps, the key is to use good form and get a good contraction on each rep.

This is most likely because there is less opportunity to use muscle other than the bicep - also, it is easier for you to actually squeeze the muscle and contract it from the beginning of the ROM to the end of it.

You can have someone using perfect form on the exercise, but unless you are concentrating on actually SQUEEZING the muscle throughout the ROM - you aren't really working it - and it won't grow.

Just my .02
(not addressed to YOU - but I saw you mentioned cables and thought it would be a good reference point) :)

[taxguy]

I would say that Dave Palumbo and PJ Braun would disagree with you on cables building bigger arms.

Arm training (http://www.rxmuscle.com/videos/iatraining/1479-pj-braun-and-juan-diesel-morel-arm-annihilation.html)

You know, I really don't care what two people say. I know what works for me and MOST of the people that have built world class biceps (not me) in their careers. I'd be willing to bet you that MOST will credit barbells/dumbells more than cables. Cables apparently aren't working for the op now are they.

[Mac]

You know, I really don't care what two people say. I know what works for me and MOST of the people that have built world class biceps (not me) in their careers. I'd be willing to bet you that MOST will credit barbells/dumbells more than cables. Cables apparently aren't working for the op now are they.

You know, I really don't care what you say either.

I think Dave Palumbo and PJ Brawn both have top notch bicep development.

The OP did one fucking set of cable curls. I am sure that even one set with barbells or dumbbells would produce menial results.

I believe in what you say about bb/db WILL produce results and so will cables.

[DUKE56]

Taxguy; i don't think anyone is doubting what works for you; if freeweights works for you thats great. I'll tell ya what i'll do. I'll do cables for a month and do free weights for a month and i'll post the cables/free weights and post results. I think and correct me if i'm wrong mactech. The cables worked for him and others. The free weights worked for you. I'll do both the next two months and we'll see what works better for me. Is that acceptable ?

[taxguy]

You know, I really don't care what you say either.

I think Dave Palumbo and PJ Brawn both have top notch bicep development.

The OP did one fucking set of cable curls. I am sure that even one set with barbells or dumbbells would produce menial results.

I believe in what you say about bb/db WILL produce results and so will cables.

Ok, I'll try this one more time.

First, read his routine again. It does not say he does one set of cable curls. He states that he works his way up and then does four sets of ten. The first sentence in his post kind of gives it away "curls till I am blue in the face" or something like that.

I think those guys biceps are top notch as well and they might have built them primarily with cable curls. I don't know.

I agree that his routine is not the best. In my first post to him, I tried to offer some suggestions to change it around.

Maybe I was generalizing too much, but if you look at the guys over the years with world class biceps (Priest, Arnold, Coleman, etc.) I honestly believe that they were built with heavy basic exercises. That is all I was trying to relay to the op.

So hopefully this will explain what I was trying to say I little better and you can cease your childish little tirade against anything except what you believe and I will try to do the same. Touche.

[taxguy]

Taxguy; i don't think anyone is doubting what works for you; if freeweights works for you thats great. I'll tell ya what i'll do. I'll do cables for a month and do free weights for a month and i'll post the cables/free weights and post results. I think and correct me if i'm wrong mactech. The cables worked for him and others. The free weights worked for you. I'll do both the next two months and we'll see what works better for me. Is that acceptable ?

That's cool. I will be interested in the results. Either way, good luck to you. In all honesty, both will work to a degree. It is all about finding what works best for you.

[IL WNBF Pro]

When it comes to biceps, you only have one basic movement....elbow flexion(technically two - supination of the hand). Therefore, any curling motion is going to work the bicep. I've always found curling motions, involving cables, to be very effective. I actually prefer it to regular standing barbell curls. What ever you choose to do, to go about hitting your biceps, the key is to use good form and get a good contraction on each rep.

Agree on all counts....but something not very people talk about is the assistance (albeit weakly) of shoulder flexion (i.e. same motion involved with front raises). So, there is a case to be made about keeping the elbows against the body, as well as letting them come forward. In addition laying on an incline bench and curling puts the shoulder in an extended position, thus making it very difficult to involve any shoulder flexion. Bottom line? Do what you feel works best, change it up if you dont feel it. Personally, I have found 10 - 15 reps lately stimulate them....but I exhaust quickly (meaning one set I could get 14, next I might only get 9)

[DUKE56]

Il wnbf pro, i tried doing a set of hammer curls at 30 lbs and later in my workout went to cables and got heavy for as many reps as i could get out. Kinda like working to failure. But not straining to squeeze out that last rep.
Taxguy, i was waiting to hear from you before i started. Next week i'll start on dumbbells only. Then on to the cables a month later

[DUKE56]

Wo, no i wasn't drunk; i hate it when i get a finger on the wrong key.
Don't ask me what i was trying to say. Sorry folks

[taxguy]

Il wnbf pro, i tried doing a set of hammer curls at 30 lbs and later in my workout went to cables and got heavy for as many reps as i could get out. Kinda like working to failure. But not straining to squeeze out that last rep.
Taxguy, i was waiting to hear from you before i started. Next week i'll start on dumbbells only. Then on to the cables a month later

I have improved by biceps this year primarily with standing ez curl and straight bar curls (heavy 6-8 reps). You might throw that into the mix also. Best of luck.

[DUKE56]

Can do, i'll give it a shot and see what happens. I've been mixing db and heavy cables. No change yet.

[bodyhard]

You are not going to see a difference in one month man, you need to stay consistent for several months before you can start determining what works or doesn't.

[Kristofer68ss]

how much is too much on bi's

[DUKE56]

Not a problem i'm not married to cables or freeweights. I just want bigger biceps. Looks like you got great peaks on your biceps bodyhard. Looks like alot of work.
Thats a good question kristofer, i'm not sure. Bodybuilding is new to me. I'm an old powerlifter and is curious about what i look like without the fat.

[bodyhard]

how much is too much on bi's


The bicep is a very small muscle and contrary to what some believe more is not better.

The bicep is targeted when doing back, so if you spend hours on end doing curls after curls, guess what, your biceps will never grow.

Sometimes NOT doing biceps for a while, especially if you have been hammering them like crazy for months on end, will be more productive than doing more.

[DUKE56]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, this is a difficult sport. I never know if i'm overtraining or under training.
I guess i'll just keep on and every once in a while slack off and see what happens.

[DUKE56]

All i know is i'm gona
POUND THAT STEEL !

[bryantone]

Try scott curls, 3 sets 8-12 reps max, then 1 set 15-20 reps. once a week. for 2 months then change up to a different iso exersize.

[DUKE56]

I'm not familier with scott curls, what are they?

[Mac]

You can do these one or two arms at a time.

TLi1DMja5II

[Baldiewonkanobi]

I'm not familier with scott curls, what are they?

Named for Larry Scott. I met Larry in the mid 50s when he trained at Goodrich in Hollywood. He has a web site with some great history. Scotts take all swinging out of the curl...as do concentration and spider curls. The deep lower belly of the tricep in a front bicep pose is what makes an impressive arm. Dieted down most of us can get a little canon ball bicep...top that with a deep tricep and BABOOM.

Baldie

[DUKE56]

[quote=mactech;1085067]you can do these one or two arms at a time.



good, i'll give it a shot and see what happens, it looks like it might take stress off of my shoulders also.

[DUKE56]

named for larry scott. I met larry in the mid 50s when he trained at goodrich in hollywood. He has a web site with some great history. Scotts take all swinging out of the curl...as do concentration and spider curls. The deep lower belly of the tricep in a front bicep pose is what makes an impressive arm. Dieted down most of us can get a little canon ball bicep...top that with a deep tricep and baboom.

Baldie

i appreciate all the help, you and mac are alot of help to me and the other folks. You guys are much appreciated.