I heard that Corn starch is the same thing as waxy maze is this true?

[Mr Kimble]

I heard that Corn starch is the same thing as waxy maze is this true? Isn't waxy maze the same thing ? Can anybody tell me what the difference is between Waxy Maze and regular Cornstarch? Can we just take in Cornstarch Pre and Post workout?

[Ryan Bracewell]

I believe they are technically the same, but WMS is processed slightly different.

[Bekim Rizvani]

No waxy maize is more heavy then corn starch, one of the reason I believe whys its absorbed quicker through the gut of the stomach.

[huge285]

It's not the same!

[street]

prove its not the same.

Any one can claim its not the same ,nobody has yet to dispell the hypothesis that they are different.

[GREENMACHINE23]

prove its not the same.

Any one can claim its not the same ,nobody has yet to dispell the hypothesis that they are different.

Well go ahead.

[coaltrain]

Waiting David...........

[Amazon Doll]

wouldn't testing your blood glucose levels at small intervals after ingesting the same quantity tell you the absorbtion rate?

[Mr Kimble]

Just saying they are not the same doesn't explain shit. What is the difference? Of what I hear they are the exact same thing. Personally I would rather eat my carbs then drink a carb drink, its more satisfying and I don't believe they is any real visual difference in muscle reloading.

[Sledge]

I drink my carbs as alcohol.

Maybe I'll call it waxy Rye coke.

[Sledge]

I tried a google search and got answers ranging from it's the same thing just called waxy maize in one country and corn starch in another.To the waxy maize is missing a molecule that normal maize (corn) starch has so it absorbs faster. (which is what I'd read before and thought was the truth).

To be perfectly honest, I figure I'm not going to the olympia any time soon. Or even competing. So the small amount off difference it might make to me to replace dextrose with waxy maize won't bother me. But I feel the same about all the supplements out there. If I was hell bent on ultimate performance and wanted 100% best results then I'd consider using it.
But hey, each to their own, a lot of bodybuilders want any edge they can get and are all about ultimate results and performance, so even a 0.5% difference is worth it to them.

[Swede]

It's not the same!


Dave what company is making the species products? because Im guessing you dont have your own factory..

and is this company also making other brands? and eveyone is just naming it whatever they want?

[BigBench]

Forget them both and Just eat cookies!

[Dan Kennedy]

Poptarts!
Dan

[MikeS]

Dave what company is making the species products? because Im guessing you dont have your own factory..

and is this company also making other brands? and eveyone is just naming it whatever they want?

Alot of supplement companies (if not most) do this. There are probably a handful of actual manufacturers who sell onto 'companies' who package it up nicely and add on a huge markup.

[joe293]

Alot of supplement companies (if not most) do this. There are probably a handful of actual manufacturers who sell onto 'companies' who package it up nicely and add on a huge markup.

I buy my whey isolate straight from the source. Glanbia foods has whey isolate from Kilkarny Ireland and ships to the states. It is then shipped out of the states (Wisconsin usually) to supplement companies. There is a guy that sells 44 lb. bags of the Glanbia isolate for about $220 from one of the warehouses. These are the same bags that go to your supplement companies to go in their products. With a blend you are only getting a portion of this isolate in your shake. I guess you could call it the purest form before your supplement company (middle man) steps all over it and puts in other ingredients.

http://www.glanbianutritionals.com/americas/product_1.cfm

[joe293]

44 lbs of whey protein isolate...

[Swede]

Alot of supplement companies (if not most) do this. There are probably a handful of actual manufacturers who sell onto 'companies' who package it up nicely and add on a huge markup.


I know.. What dave is selling to "us" is the same as other companys are selling for 30% less $

[SUMO]

Dave what company is making the species products? because Im guessing you dont have your own factory..

and is this company also making other brands? and eveyone is just naming it whatever they want?
I might be wrong, but I'm guessing it's Nutricap and Bactolac.

[Swede]

And why do this site keep you on the "active users list" for 2 hours after you stopped being active lol. less then 1 hour at md but Im guessing rx wanna take it all the way :D


(countdown until post being deleted)

[TPT]

this thread is still up?

[beezy13]

I buy my whey isolate straight from the source. Glanbia foods has whey isolate from Kilkarny Ireland and ships to the states. It is then shipped out of the states (Wisconsin usually) to supplement companies. There is a guy that sells 44 lb. bags of the Glanbia isolate for about $220 from one of the warehouses. These are the same bags that go to your supplement companies to go in their products. With a blend you are only getting a portion of this isolate in your shake. I guess you could call it the purest form before your supplement company (middle man) steps all over it and puts in other ingredients.



site looks interesting. how do you order? didn't see a place to click on there, do you have to contact their sales dept?

[ebfitness]

I drink my carbs as alcohol.

Maybe I'll call it waxy Rye coke.
Ha!

["Rodz"]

this thread is still up?


LOL, smells like another attack thread

[joe293]

site looks interesting. how do you order? didn't see a place to click on there, do you have to contact their sales dept?

I hate to cut my own throat......lol. He occasionally sells bags through Ebay. You'll have to do a little searching on there but he sells a few a year.

[Matt Cena]

This may help to shed some light on the subject:

University Study Shows Waxy Maize Starch Study Could Serve as Slow, Sustained Energy Source Low Glycemic Carb Could Help Fuel Military Personnel, Endurance Athletes

Irvine, CA – July 30, 2009– Purdue University researchers may have found a new use for an old starch—waxy maize starch—to offer sustained energy delivery to military personnel and endurance athletes.

Waxy maize starch, called ‘waxy’ because of the appearance of the kernel under cross section, was brought from China to the US in the early 1900s. In the study, published in the current issue of Nutrition Research, waxy maize starch was compared to a mixture of maltodextrin and sugars, and to white bread. The study confirmed previous studies showing waxy maize starch to be slowly digested and absorbed, producing a much smaller increase in blood sugar and insulin.

“Waxy maize starch appears to provide slow, sustained delivery of energy to the body,” offered sports nutrition researcher Chad Kerksick, PhD of the University of Oklahoma Department of Health and Exercise Science. “These new findings confirm what we have seen in our study comparing waxy maize starch to maltodextrin.”

In the Purdue study twelve lean and fit young men and women received a 50 gram dose of carbohydrates supplied by white bread, waxy maize starch, or a maltodextrin and sucrose mixture (approximately 3:1 ratio), on three different days. Blood glucose and blood insulin responses to the carbohydrate sources were followed for four hours, along with measurements of calorie burning rate and subjective measurements of appetite and fullness.

The study performed an assessment of the glycemic index, a measure of the excursion of blood sugar relative to a “control” carbohydrate, white bread, and a fast digesting and absorbing carbohydrate source, maltodextrin plus sugar, at 2 and 4 hours after ingestion. At 2 hours, maltodextrin plus sugar achieved a glycemic index of 163, waxy maize starch had a value of 63, and white bread 71. The blood insulin response, influenced by how fast the carbohydrate was digested and absorbed, was 3.5 times higher, and substantially faster in the first hour with maltodextrin plus sugar, and 1.6 times higher with white bread, relative to waxy maize starch. None of the carbohydrate treatments differed in their influence on hunger, appetite, or calories burned.

“This study with waxy maize starch directly refutes what numerous sport nutrition product companies are claiming—that waxy maize starch is fast absorbing and raises insulin sharply,” described Susan Kleiner, PhD, RD, director of High Performance Nutrition, LLC in the Seattle area, and the author of the best selling book Power Eating, Third Edition. “It actually may be best suited for long endurance exercise or for persons who experience blood sugar fluctuations, as blood sugar did not drop below the starting point 4 hours after waxy maize starch but did with maltodextrin plus sugars,” added Dr. Kleiner.

“Although an exercise endurance test was not performed, we and other researchers have shown that at least over a 2 hour period, waxy maize starch does not enhance endurance performance over maltodextrin,” added Dr. Kerksick. “What would be interesting to explore is whether waxy maize starch would shine in ultra-endurance training or competition, in events lasting 4 hours or more. This may be why the military had an interest.”

This study was funded by the US Army, Natick Soldier Research Development & Engineering Center, Combat Feeding Program in Natick, MA.

[joe293]

This may help to shed some light on the subject:

University Study Shows Waxy Maize Starch Study Could Serve as Slow, Sustained Energy Source Low Glycemic Carb Could Help Fuel Military Personnel, Endurance Athletes

Irvine, CA – July 30, 2009– Purdue University researchers may have found a new use for an old starch—waxy maize starch—to offer sustained energy delivery to military personnel and endurance athletes.

Waxy maize starch, called ‘waxy’ because of the appearance of the kernel under cross section, was brought from China to the US in the early 1900s. In the study, published in the current issue of Nutrition Research, waxy maize starch was compared to a mixture of maltodextrin and sugars, and to white bread. The study confirmed previous studies showing waxy maize starch to be slowly digested and absorbed, producing a much smaller increase in blood sugar and insulin.

“Waxy maize starch appears to provide slow, sustained delivery of energy to the body,” offered sports nutrition researcher Chad Kerksick, PhD of the University of Oklahoma Department of Health and Exercise Science. “These new findings confirm what we have seen in our study comparing waxy maize starch to maltodextrin.”

In the Purdue study twelve lean and fit young men and women received a 50 gram dose of carbohydrates supplied by white bread, waxy maize starch, or a maltodextrin and sucrose mixture (approximately 3:1 ratio), on three different days. Blood glucose and blood insulin responses to the carbohydrate sources were followed for four hours, along with measurements of calorie burning rate and subjective measurements of appetite and fullness.

The study performed an assessment of the glycemic index, a measure of the excursion of blood sugar relative to a “control” carbohydrate, white bread, and a fast digesting and absorbing carbohydrate source, maltodextrin plus sugar, at 2 and 4 hours after ingestion. At 2 hours, maltodextrin plus sugar achieved a glycemic index of 163, waxy maize starch had a value of 63, and white bread 71. The blood insulin response, influenced by how fast the carbohydrate was digested and absorbed, was 3.5 times higher, and substantially faster in the first hour with maltodextrin plus sugar, and 1.6 times higher with white bread, relative to waxy maize starch. None of the carbohydrate treatments differed in their influence on hunger, appetite, or calories burned.

“This study with waxy maize starch directly refutes what numerous sport nutrition product companies are claiming—that waxy maize starch is fast absorbing and raises insulin sharply,” described Susan Kleiner, PhD, RD, director of High Performance Nutrition, LLC in the Seattle area, and the author of the best selling book Power Eating, Third Edition. “It actually may be best suited for long endurance exercise or for persons who experience blood sugar fluctuations, as blood sugar did not drop below the starting point 4 hours after waxy maize starch but did with maltodextrin plus sugars,” added Dr. Kleiner.

“Although an exercise endurance test was not performed, we and other researchers have shown that at least over a 2 hour period, waxy maize starch does not enhance endurance performance over maltodextrin,” added Dr. Kerksick. “What would be interesting to explore is whether waxy maize starch would shine in ultra-endurance training or competition, in events lasting 4 hours or more. This may be why the military had an interest.”

This study was funded by the US Army, Natick Soldier Research Development & Engineering Center, Combat Feeding Program in Natick, MA.

Good find......now I know why I quit using that crap a long time ago.

[beezy13]

I hate to cut my own throat......lol. He occasionally sells bags through Ebay. You'll have to do a little searching on there but he sells a few a year.


Understood man, Just thought I'd ask. Take care

[chris mason]

I had to reference my notes as I was brain farting on the difference. In a nutshell waxy maize is a form of corn which has a 'defect' which causes it to produce virtually no amylose. This is what makes it have a low osmolarity and thus unique digestive traits.

With that said, I thought about selling it and was unconvinced by the research that I reviewed that it was worth using for those looking for enhanced recovery.

[joe293]

Understood man, Just thought I'd ask. Take care


No problem, I'm all set for protein now. If he's got one on there have at it. If I get a link I'll post it for you.

[Ryan Bracewell]

These threads are usually started to create a debate about WMS effectiveness, which is fucking retarded. You should not base your opinion on one or two studies. Spend the $30-50 and try it for your self. Either you see gains or you don't. There could be a supp out there that only 1 of 10 people really respond to, but if your one of the few that respond then it's a great product.....atleast for you. Too many people put there nutritional and supplemental opinions in other peoples hands, come up with the opinion for yourself.

FYI, this is not ment for any one specific person in this thread, just a rant.

[Tre]

I heard that Corn starch is the same thing as waxy maze is this true? Isn't waxy maze the same thing ?

Yes.


Can anybody tell me what the difference is between Waxy Maze and regular Cornstarch?

$36/lb


Can we just take in Cornstarch Pre and Post workout?

Yes.

[medium195]

These threads are usually started to create a debate about WMS effectiveness, which is fucking retarded. You should not base your opinion on one or two studies. Spend the $30-50 and try it for your self. Either you see gains or you don't. There could be a supp out there that only 1 of 10 people really respond to, but if your one of the few that respond then it's a great product.....atleast for you. Too many people put there nutritional and supplemental opinions in other peoples hands, come up with the opinion for yourself.

FYI, this is not ment for any one specific person in this thread, just a rant.


wow

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Just eat some corn with your chicken, fish or steak, some oatmeal with your eggs- paying a lot of money for CARBS is just absurd, unless you have money to burn..

[Amazon Doll]

Just eat some corn with your chicken, fish or steak, some oatmeal with your eggs- paying a lot of money for CARBS is just absurd, unless you have money to burn..

Or you are bulking and sick of eating and chewing all day long...... Then drinking your carbs is a fast and easy way to get them.

[tiramisu]

We certainly are funny animals. Take the carbs out of milk and then add the carbs back in with really expensive corn starch.

A quart of chocolate milk pwo is a heck of a lot cheaper.

[TPT]

These threads are usually started to create a debate about WMS effectiveness, which is fucking retarded. You should not base your opinion on one or two studies. Spend the $30-50 and try it for your self. Either you see gains or you don't. There could be a supp out there that only 1 of 10 people really respond to, but if your one of the few that respond then it's a great product.....atleast for you. Too many people put there nutritional and supplemental opinions in other peoples hands, come up with the opinion for yourself.

FYI, this is not ment for any one specific person in this thread, just a rant.


damn...

: )

[chris mason]

Yes.



$36/lb



Yes.

Tre, they are not the same. Read my post.

Oh, and to clarify, I am not suggesting waxy maize is worth the money, it isn't.

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Cream of Wheat. Pop Tarts. Bagels. Rice Cakes. End.

[ob205]

Joe293,
thanks for the link. Some interesting products there, especially the Whey fractions. Maybe these are Connelly's secret weapons.

>>>
Prolibra® is an all-natural, patent-pending ingredient for healthy weight loss.
Prolibra is clinically-proven to promote fat loss, retain lean muscle mass and lower glycemic index. Subjects in the body composition trial lost 80% more fat than the control group and retained two times as much lean muscle. Those in the glycemic index trial saw a 38% reduction in glycemic response versus the control.
Prolibra works via a variety of mechanisms to favorably influence body fat and lean mass retention. It is a unique ingredient that combines the beneficial properties of protein-rich in leucine, bioactive peptides and minerals to effect changes in body composition and reduce glycemic response.



TRI-Fx® is an advanced source of concentrated whey bioactives for muscle development, strength, endurance and recovery. Rich in immunoglobins, lactoferrin, growth factors and phospholipids, TRI-Fx is highly soluble and has an excellent flavor profile.
>>>>>>

[joe293]

Joe293,
thanks for the link. Some interesting products there, especially the Whey fractions. Maybe these are Connelly's secret weapons.


No problem, like I said there is a guy selling these bags from one of the Glanbia warehouses. He doesn't sell them very often but every once in awhile they are on Ebay. I think it's usually "buy it now" price of $210 and $20 shipping for 44 pounds. Before guys figured out what this guy had I was bidding $185 and winning bags.....lol. I think it's about $4.65 per pound of a pure whey isolate (CFM)!!!

[TPT]

I buy my whey isolate straight from the source. Glanbia foods has whey isolate from Kilkarny Ireland and ships to the states. It is then shipped out of the states (Wisconsin usually) to supplement companies. There is a guy that sells 44 lb. bags of the Glanbia isolate for about $220 from one of the warehouses. These are the same bags that go to your supplement companies to go in their products. With a blend you are only getting a portion of this isolate in your shake. I guess you could call it the purest form before your supplement company (middle man) steps all over it and puts in other ingredients.

http://www.glanbianutritionals.com/americas/product_1.cfm


thanks for the info.

[Boo]

Episode 503.

Boo

http://www.superhumanradio.com/

[Sean]

These threads are usually started to create a debate about WMS effectiveness, which is fucking retarded. You should not base your opinion on one or two studies. Spend the $30-50 and try it for your self.
Brilliant! Don't believe the un-biased studies that tout it's ineffectiveness. Go spend $30-50 and prove to yourself that it's worthless.

[Ryan Bracewell]

Brilliant! Don't believe the un-biased studies that tout it's ineffectiveness. Go spend $30-50 and prove to yourself that it's worthless.

how many studies have you read that apply to what you do exactly? Last time I checked they dont do that many studies using bodybuilders or powerlifters. If I remember correctly the main WMS vs Vitargo study being used to down play WMS is tested on endurance athletes(bicyclist I believe), so that does not really apply to people that primarily do strength training.

I am not saying studies are worthless, just that personal experience counts for more because everyone reacts to things different.

In addition, unless you really know how to research these things back, you never really know who sponsored the study. Any person that has a college background in science and research studies knows that you can virtually make the study "conclusion" look anyway you want it too. Its all in how you present the data.

[thesamewords]

If you like it use it. If you dont like it, leave it on the shelf for someone else. I hate when supps get all fancy and then a few years later you realize its the same stuff that you grew up on that keeps you built, not the supps.Chicken, rice, grits, yams, and broccoli. Put that stuff in every damn supp and watch how huge you get!