Suggestions to next cycle

[kratos47]

Ok I'm planning a cycle in the next 3 months. my weight should be 180-185 around that time at about 8 to 10 percent. I'm 5'10. i have two cycles in mind. im looking to have a clean bulk to get around 205 to 215. I was thinking either:
10 weeks of test e at 600 mili
var at 80 to 100 for 8 of those weeks
or instead do the first month with dbol at 30 to 50 milli and the next month switch to the var and run it all the way through. suggestions?

[Gunners]

16 week cycle:

250mg Test E mixed with 150mg EQ, pin EOD, yielding 1000mg Test & 600mg EQ weekly. Run this as a base for 16 weeks.

First 6 weeks frontload with 150mg Anadrol ED.

Last 6 weeks add Tren Ace 50mg ED.

25mg Aromasin ED

GH - 4IU ED whole cycle.

Long R3 IGF-1 - 50mcg post work out & 20mcg on non workout days.

Nutrition:

Meal 1 - 100grams rolled oats, 5 whole eggs, 2 scoops of whey, 1 banana, 1 other high GI fruit, 1 tablespoon cod liver oil. Put all ingredients in a blender with milk and drink.

Meal 2 to Meal 5 - a serving of lean meat or fish, vary throught the day giving you 50-70 grams of protein. Equal serving of carbs from rice, potatoes e.t.c and serving of veg and fruit throughout the day.

Meal 6 - 3 scoops of whey, 2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter shake.

Pre-workout meal - 50 grams of whey, 50 grams of mixed carbs, 10 grams creatine.
Post-workout meal - 50-70 grams of whey, 100 grams of dextrose, 10 grams creatine.

[Warped]

I am doing test and dbol now,its good for bulking. I would not even bother with the var. Expensive and weak.

[THE-DET-OAK]

well test e at 10 weeks is like a teaser to me that would be a prop cycle length for me

1-5 dbol 40-50 mg ED
1-14 test e 750mg a week
9-16 var 70mg ED

SERM starts week 17

^^^ thats how i would run those compounds

[THE-DET-OAK]

what are your goals with this upcoming cycle?

[dbow196]

16 week cycle:

250mg Test E mixed with 150mg EQ, pin EOD, yielding 1000mg Test & 600mg EQ weekly.

EoD would make that 875mg test and 525mg EQ per week. If you pin for times a week every week you would hit 1000/600. EoD will mean that some weeks you pin only 3 times.

[THE-DET-OAK]

EoD would make that 875mg test and 525mg EQ per week. If you pin for times a week every week you would hit 1000/600. EoD will mean that some weeks you pin only 3 times.


actually EOD means you pin 3.5 x a week

your math is correct though

[Die4Mass]

bro id go test/dbol over test/var or my fav test/deca/anadrol

[Dr. Eatbox]

You are looking to gain 20-30lbs in only 10 weeks? I would set more realistic goals first if you really want clean solid muscle from your bulk. Have many previous cycles have you ran? Clean bulk to me really only means you do cardio on top of all the eating you have to do anyway

[Gunners]

actually EOD means you pin 3.5 x a week

your math is correct though

I's roughly that, were talking about 16 weeks here

[kratos47]

thanks for the input guys. well after reading everything about myostatin and how cycles are only really good for about 8 to 10 weeks unless you add in an androgenic or up it with something else to keep the gains rolling. i think test just at 600 is plenty for a 185 pound guy. do u guys really think i would need more then just dball 1 month then var(personal choice) for the remainder of the cycle to atleast break 200 lean?

[kratos47]

i think 15 lean pounds seems more reasonable. so ill end up bulking about ten pounds above that then hopefully when its all said and done be left with 12 to 15 solid new pounds. any thoughts on maybe adding in igf1?

[THE-DET-OAK]

I's roughly that, were talking about 16 weeks here

i dont want to start a pissing match but its not roughly that-its exactly that

one week is 3 shots next week is 4-thats 7 shots in 2 weeks-or 3.5 in one week

your body doesnt understand the calender

[THE-DET-OAK]

thanks for the input guys. well after reading everything about myostatin and how cycles are only really good for about 8 to 10 weeks unless you add in an androgenic or up it with something else to keep the gains rolling. i think test just at 600 is plenty for a 185 pound guy. do u guys really think i would need more then just dball 1 month then var(personal choice) for the remainder of the cycle to atleast break 200 lean?

i dont beleive that garbage-i make gains all the way through 14 weeks-yes they slow down towards the end-but they keep comin as long as you continue to increase your cals

people pick out a certain number of cals and your body grows fast-but once your body catches up with the new muscle you begin to just support what you gained-at the time you gotta take it up another 4-600 cals to keep the gains comin

i like the cycle i proposed-the dbol will get you outts the gate fast-and prolly pt 20lbs on you right away if you eat enough...........then you will lose a lil when you stop the dbol...........gain some strength back on just test-then hit it again with the var at the end-you should easily put on 20 lbs with the cycle i proposed-actually you should put on 30 and lose 10 or so

the reason i say 750 is cause thats about as high as you can go before the sides outweigh the benefits-there really isnt that much of a diff in gains between 750 and a gram but the sides change quite a bit for me

by using the var as a bridge to PCT as i suggested-this will lean you out and keep strength high during the T decline

[kratos47]

^^^great post bro. i think i will probably go with that. thanks

[kratos47]

probably the only thing ill add is some aromasin and hcg

[THE-DET-OAK]

absolutely bro-i would def use some HCG with that cycle-if your using the AI to stay lean if you dont mind the cost i like proviron-although its AI properties are disputed scientifically there is no question it will keep you lean

if not the AI will work just fine-i just like the added sex drive :yep: even though my women is terrified of me now :byeg:

[Gunners]

i dont want to start a pissing match but its not roughly that-its exactly that

one week is 3 shots next week is 4-thats 7 shots in 2 weeks-or 3.5 in one week

your body doesnt understand the calender

I mean it's roughly what i wrote, stop nitpicking, the body doesn't understand sunday through to saturday. Pinning as i suggested has given me excellent results

[shorty9]

wks 1-6 test e. @ 250mg eod,
deca @ 200mg eod,
dbol or Abombs @ 50mg ed
wks 7-16: test e. 250mg eod,
eq @ 200mg eod,
could throw in var at the end like wks 12-16 and use that to bridge into PCT at the very end.
wks 1-16 A.I. of your choice throughout

-I just like to switch things up after about 6-8 wks, for me anyway seems like gains come easier after switching things up, instead of running same thing straight through, Just a thought tho.

[shorty9]

sorry that was kinda jumbled

[kratos47]

Ok i think im gonna stay basic with this
750 mili of test e for 12 weeks
weeks 1-4 30-50 mili of dbol depending on gains and how i feel
then starting in week 8 run winni for 6 weeks bridging to pct. Only question is what dose would you guys suggest for the winni and should i do any type of pyramiding with the dose?

[Warped]

I suggest minimum 75mg ed for winny straight thru.

[kratos47]

I have never run winni before so to those who have. what were your experiences with it. sides? gains? any type of lathargy or increase in energy?

[Gunners]

I have never run winni before so to those who have. what were your experiences with it. sides? gains? any type of lathargy or increase in energy?

50mg ED is plenty. No notable change in energy levels. Works very well at reducing estrogen, no huge gains but definately a good hardener.

Used in this way it's effective, any other way it's not! Winstrol is the worst sides VS benefits IMO.

[Gunners]

Ok i think im gonna stay basic with this
750 mili of test e for 12 weeks
weeks 1-4 30-50 mili of dbol depending on gains and how i feel
then starting in week 8 run winni for 6 weeks bridging to pct. Only question is what dose would you guys suggest for the winni and should i do any type of pyramiding with the dose?

IMO - No real point bridging for 2 weeks with winni, just start it in wk 7. Run dianobol for 6 weeks till you start the winni. Personally, i like dropping all over compounds, just leave in test slowly tapering, then PCT if i need it.

[THE-DET-OAK]

, just leave in test slowly tapering, then PCT if i need it.

:dunno:

[Warped]

50mg ED is plenty. No notable change in energy levels. Works very well at reducing estrogen, no huge gains but definately a good hardener.

Used in this way it's effective, any other way it's not! Winstrol is the worst sides VS benefits IMO.
x2. I will never use it again.

[Gunners]

:dunno:

I find coming off a gram of test, 600mg of EQ, 350mg of Tren Ace straight to PCT not the best. I find my recovery is much better by dropping all other compunds at the end of my cycle & tapering off the test slowly till pct - this way i keep the majority of my gains. What is so confusing to you smart arse?

[THE-DET-OAK]

whats confusing to me is that you may or may not need a PCT-i mean its common knowledge that coming off other compounds like deca tren and eq early is wise............i think tapering is worthless-and IMO you always need a PCT.

BTW coming off tren is a lot diff then var or winny-and the reason you feel the way you do is cause you do not know how to run your HCG properly

see if HCG is ran properly their will be no need to taper-since your balls will be producing test at their maximum capacity

so if you want to run poor PCT thats fine-but why pass bad info along?

[Gunners]

[quote=Personally, i like dropping all over compounds, just leave in test slowly tapering, then PCT if i need it.[/quote]

I was not telling him to do so as you can see i'm stating how i like to do it. Also, PCT if i need it because i have noticed now by tapering test only i have been able to recover without PCT, if i need it i run it. There is no law it has to be done immediately after cycle, often multiple pct's are prescribed if neccessary. Point being - if i don't need it, why should i run it???

I find it easier tapering test than running HCG for a full 16 weeks!! Which gives me bad acne & is no miracle cure when running heavy compunds in any case.

You got some way to go mate before lecturing me on how to run gear, i have been very successful with these methods - don't really need your worthless nitpicking.

[THE-DET-OAK]

your way is outdated-and not up to current standards IMO-sorry buddy

you dont have to run HCG the entire cycle

anyone doing more than a 15 week cycle and not using HCG is just kinda stupid and doin the old "if aint broke dont fix it" i think that a lazy bullshit way to do it, sorry

tapering test is not the best of ideas-this has been debated time and time again

i dont expect you to care or try to learn, i guess the old saying holds true here " you cant teach an old dog new tricks"

[THE-DET-OAK]

i will say again if you knew how to run your HCG properly-you would never even attempt a PCT without it-it makes an obvious difference

[Gunners]

your way is outdated-and not up to current standards IMO-sorry buddy

you dont have to run HCG the entire cycle

anyone doing more than a 15 week cycle and not using HCG is just kinda stupid and doin the old "if aint broke dont fix it" i think that a lazy bullshit way to do it, sorry

tapering test is not the best of ideas-this has been debated time and time again

i dont expect you to care or try to learn, i guess the old saying holds true here " you cant teach an old dog new tricks"

Running HCG is not astrophysics, i've tried it and prefer not to run it during the cycle, pct for 2-3 weeks it's a differet story.

Secondly, i started out running cycles the conventional way, no taper, pct - clomid, nolvadex, hcg. I found slowly tapering test only is a better way to keep my gains. Please stop quoting me the same cliches.... we all now the standard practice, i don't need you regurgitating shit you have read elsewhere! I have found with experimentation what works well for me.

[Ymir]

keep it simple

12-16 weeks 1g testo 800mg EQ

week 5-12 oxys or dbol

aromasin 10mg ed, hcg 250iu e3d

no peptides.

[THE-DET-OAK]

Running HCG is not astrophysics, i've tried it and prefer not to run it during the cycle, pct for 2-3 weeks it's a differet story.

Secondly, i started out running cycles the conventional way, no taper, pct - clomid, nolvadex, hcg. I found slowly tapering test only is a better way to keep my gains. Please stop quoting me the same cliches.... we all now the standard practice, i don't need you regurgitating shit you have read elsewhere! I have found with experimentation what works well for me.

listen Gunners, im not going to argue with you about this-your way is retarted...........you can try to discredit what i say by inciniuating that my knowledge is soley from reading on the internet.

you ran HCG during your PCT which is another dumb move since it is a suppressive compound. instead of trying to say that i dont know what im talking about you need to try and do a REAL PCT.

anyone who isnt at least running HCG during the time of the T decline when cycling more than 1 compound is cutting their self short, not only for the short term but for long term recouperation.

if you run your HCG right-i doubt you will ever need a second PCT.

HCG is more important then SERM treatment

but since you ran your HCG during a time when it was detrimental to your recovery, then i guess you actually have NO CLUE of what your talking about.

[THE-DET-OAK]

we all now the standard practice, i don't need you regurgitating shit you have read elsewhere!.

since you know all the "standard practices" i would love to hear the "standard" like the one where you run it 2-3 weeks during PCT

[THE-DET-OAK]

my original pieve with your comments gunners was the fact that you donplayed the impotance of HCG and a pct at all for that matter, leading others to believe that just tapering will be fine

let me ask you this then lets say your on a gram of test and you stop cold turkey

lets say your levels are around 5500 day after your last shot, and you are running enanthate

so in 7 days they will be 2750

7 more 1375

7 more 687

7 more 343

im seeing a pattern here but correct me if im wrong but its seems like test attached to long esters are self tapering?

[Gunners]

my original pieve with your comments gunners was the fact that you donplayed the impotance of HCG and a pct at all for that matter, leading others to believe that just tapering will be fine

let me ask you this then lets say your on a gram of test and you stop cold turkey

lets say your levels are around 5500 day after your last shot, and you are running enanthate

so in 7 days they will be 2750

7 more 1375

7 more 687

7 more 343

im seeing a pattern here but correct me if im wrong but its seems like test attached to long esters are self tapering?

Test is self tapering to a degree but with other suppresive metabolites still in your system i find recovery is better by dropping the other compounds, staying on test and slowly tapering.

[Gunners]

listen Gunners, im not going to argue with you about this-your way is retarted...........you can try to discredit what i say by inciniuating that my knowledge is soley from reading on the internet.

you ran HCG during your PCT which is another dumb move since it is a suppressive compound. instead of trying to say that i dont know what im talking about you need to try and do a REAL PCT.

anyone who isnt at least running HCG during the time of the T decline when cycling more than 1 compound is cutting their self short, not only for the short term but for long term recouperation.

if you run your HCG right-i doubt you will ever need a second PCT.

HCG is more important then SERM treatment

but since you ran your HCG during a time when it was detrimental to your recovery, then i guess you actually have NO CLUE of what your talking about.

Nowhere did i say is was detremental to recovery! Don't make up things i said mate, show me where did i say it was detremental or counter-productive?

[Gunners]

since you know all the "standard practices" i would love to hear the "standard" like the one where you run it 2-3 weeks during PCT

i think you will find runnng HCG during PCT is quite common, perhaps your training with professional ping pong players but i know of many guys running HCG during PCT! I prefer running it that way then throughout a long cycle, which gives me very harsh acne.

I'm not here to score points on an internet forum debate mate, everyone is different, i have experemented and found this works best for me - as i stated before. So stop nitpicking when it's working for me idiot.

[THE-DET-OAK]

Running HCG is not astrophysics, i've tried it and prefer not to run it during the cycle, pct for 2-3 weeks it's a differet story.



i never said you said HCG inhibits recovery-i just think maybe you do not find value in HCG cause you did not run it properly.........from your above statement it sounds like you ran HCG during your SERM treatment.......since HCG creates an artificial LH signal it suppresses your natural one.

my point is, with what we know HCG does, its stupid to not use it to hasten recovery.

your tapering idea is fine with me, although i do not see or agree with the logic at all.

HCG is a must, unless your running a light, short cycle........if your not using it then your not recovering as fast as you could............period.

[THE-DET-OAK]

i think you will find runnng HCG during PCT is quite common, perhaps your training with professional ping pong players but i know of many guys running HCG during PCT! I prefer running it that way then throughout a long cycle, which gives me very harsh acne.

I'm not here to score points on an internet forum debate mate, everyone is different, i have experemented and found this works best for me - as i stated before. So stop nitpicking when it's working for me idiot.

im sorry, but running HCG during your SERM treatment is absolutley pointless, it is contradictory............im not here to have a debate either im trying to teach you how to run it properly

[Gunners]

im sorry, but running HCG during your SERM treatment is absolutley pointless, it is contradictory............im not here to have a debate either im trying to teach you how to run it properly

What's this fucking arrogance i'm trying to "teach you to run it properly"? Just STFU! I don't have forever and a day to carry on with your pointless bullshit

[THE-DET-OAK]

well your running your HCG incorrectly-therefore downplaying the importance of it.............you need to run it right cause it would be beneficial

as far as you getting mad-well that's cause you know im right-which is not a big deal-im sure you could teach me a few things too

[ProtoType]

Personally I would do the following;

Weeks 1-3/4: Test cyp & A-50
Weeks x-y: Test cyp and Tren Ace

This way you are effectively front loading with the cyp, whilst the A-50's will ramp up the RBC's.

Starting the tren after x weeks of this will be great as there is an environment for growth already in place when the tren begins to works it's magic. It will also stop you from flattening out after coming of the A-50's
here's a better example:

1-12 - 3ml test 250
1-4 - A-50 ED
5-10 - 3/5ml tren

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Keep some glycerol on hand to help combat water retention during the early weeks.

I would not run the tren for any longer than 6 weeks but that's my personal preference

[econ mba]

16 week cycle:

250mg Test E mixed with 150mg EQ, pin EOD, yielding 1000mg Test & 600mg EQ weekly. Run this as a base for 16 weeks.

First 6 weeks frontload with 150mg Anadrol ED.

Last 6 weeks add Tren Ace 50mg ED.

25mg Aromasin ED

GH - 4IU ED whole cycle.

Long R3 IGF-1 - 50mcg post work out & 20mcg on non workout days.

Nutrition:

Meal 1 - 100grams rolled oats, 5 whole eggs, 2 scoops of whey, 1 banana, 1 other high GI fruit, 1 tablespoon cod liver oil. Put all ingredients in a blender with milk and drink.

Meal 2 to Meal 5 - a serving of lean meat or fish, vary throught the day giving you 50-70 grams of protein. Equal serving of carbs from rice, potatoes e.t.c and serving of veg and fruit throughout the day.

Meal 6 - 3 scoops of whey, 2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter shake.

Pre-workout meal - 50 grams of whey, 50 grams of mixed carbs, 10 grams creatine.
Post-workout meal - 50-70 grams of whey, 100 grams of dextrose, 10 grams creatine.

I can't believe the OP didn't respond to this--he had no idea how badass your setup was. I hope you don't mind if I take your advice and run this
Sean