Cycle Advice

[apc001]

Im Looking for some advice on cutting cycle for a national comp.

stats. 39, 5'3'' and 185lbs now

years training = 9

compete as a heavy around 150lbs.

cycle 12 wks

test p = 50mgs EOD wk 1-10
npp = 200mgs 2Xwk wk 1-10
anavar= 50mgs ED wk 1-12
gh = 4 iu's 6 on/ 1 off wk 1-11
igf = 80mcgs ed wk 1-6
clen = 120 mcgs wk 3-12
nol = 30 mgs wk 8-12

This was given to me by a trainer, of FBB's

[tammyp]

Im Looking for some advice on cutting cycle for a national comp.

stats. 39, 5'3'' and 185lbs now

years training = 9

compete as a heavy around 150lbs.

cycle 12 wks

test p = 50mgs EOD wk 1-10
npp = 200mgs 2Xwk wk 1-10
anavar= 50mgs ED wk 1-12
gh = 4 iu's 6 on/ 1 off wk 1-11
igf = 80mcgs ed wk 1-6
clen = 120 mcgs wk 3-12
nol = 30 mgs wk 8-12

This was given to me by a trainer, of FBB's

this is wayyy to much..im sure sassy will chime in here and agree.

personally, i dont think you need nnp...that is more of a bulker and will cause water retention, especially at that dose.
var is wayyy to high. i wouldnt go over 20mg.
prop...100mg 2 x a wk split in half. primo or eq is a better choice here than prop. 100mg split up 2 a week of either.
gh, 3 iu daily is plenty.

just my 2 cents....

[s2h]

I'm gonna disagree kinda....I would never let my FBB wife take that cycle....due to the amount of virilization symptoms that could occur...as far as it being a good cutting cycle....npp has a very short ester with limited water retention it's not a bad choice...The thing i would say is the dose is high on most everything listed....pretty much just cut everything in half dose and /or frequency...also start the clen at 20 mcgs and work your way up to 120mcgs....my ASSumption is that if your preping for nationals then you have a bit of history w/ AAS use....if that's not the case and your going off someone elses advice and not willing or prepared for the(most likely permenant) visual/physical changes....then you may want rethink this cycle choice very hard...

[tammyp]

s2h..disgree with my recommendations or the original cycle?

[sassy69]

I agree w/ Tammy - for a cutting cycle you're going to hold water like a beefalo.

The var is too high - the sides just outweigh the benefits > 20 or so mg/day, so most just go to an injectible instead.

NPP - 200mg/week max IMO, 400 mg / week if I read that right, is just massive overkill.

TP - I'd probably drop this in half if you want to use it, and then drop it completely further out if you're trying to cut - water again. I'm with Tammy - EQ might be a better selection for a long cutter, then switch to primo.

var - dont' see the point in a heavy stack. Maybe throw it in closer to the end, but at no more than 20 mg/day.

GH - I've heard from a couple different trainers that 3 iu is the sweet spot for women. 4-6 is more on the order of guys and you're going to probably experience some shitty wrist pain and water retention.

IGF - I'd need to go research, but I think you might find lower doses, again more like 40 mcg/day. This, I'd leave you to experiment if you want to use it. I know a few guys who used it for cutting and then dropped.

Clen - I'd defer to what you can handle - and include ketotifen & of course l-taurine, etc. if you want to run it continuously.

Nolva - typical is 20 mg/day, 30 isn't overkill I guess. Again, I'd start at 20 mg and increase. You can always drop back if you need to.

I guess my question to your trainer, that any good trainer should be able to respond to, is what is the purpose of each compound at these levels? It just seems like loading hellabunch of stuff and then hoping all the water drops in time for show time.

And for you, what is your own level of experience? Are these levels you've experimented w/ before?

[apc001]

my last 12 wk cutting cycle was like this:

test p = 50mgs wk 1-10
QV = 200mgs wk 1-10
anavar = 20mgs ED wk 1-12
winny = 15mgs ED wk 4-12
gh = 4 iu's 5 on/ 2 off wk 1-11
clen = 80 mcgs wk 3-12
nol = 30 mgs wk 8-12

the problem in past years it worked but the last couple of times just lost to much size to be in the hunt. so over the years my body has changed and the trainer thinks this will hold the size and and still get after the subq bf. So given this you still think its to agressive?

[sassy69]

Wow, talk about playing w/ chemistry. I wish there was a way to work w/ shorter esters so you can up or down the dose to find the sweet spot. Prop is shorter, NPP isn't. EQ is dryer.

The other thing that confuses me is the situation -- so you're not able to hold mass as well as you used to while you are cutting? What is your off-season protocol? As well all know, all the magic doesn't happen in the last 12 weeks. And also curious if you've ever looked at tren or what this trainer thinks of it?

[Suzanne]

The other thing that confuses me is the situation -- so you're not able to hold mass as well as you used to while you are cutting?

is the diet and cardio overly aggressive and eating away the mass?

[apc001]

he said tren is to harsh to us for 10 wks and my affect my cardio results. he said that we could switch it up in wks 8-10 if theres to much water. and yes its the cardio 2 hrs a day for the last 8 wks just about killed me but the bf was just not comming off.

[s2h]

s2h..disgree with my recommendations or the original cycle?i agree w/ you that it is too much overall....the only thing i would not agree w/ is the npp...it's doesn't have anywhere close to the water retention of deca and isn't a bad option..i would just hope that she has experience w/ this choice of supps and realizes/knows the effects it will have on her....

[sassy69]

he said tren is to harsh to us for 10 wks and my affect my cardio results. he said that we could switch it up in wks 8-10 if theres to much water. and yes its the cardio 2 hrs a day for the last 8 wks just about killed me but the bf was just not comming off.


I wouldn't say run it for 10 weeks. Its just an option that has its place. But it should also be your choice what you put into your body.

Not trying to deviate from your original question, but I generally consider AAS a support to an already working diet & training / cardio program. In this case it sounds like your trainer wants to use a heavy cycle to compensate for a diet & training / cardio program that isn't working. Would that be that fair to say?

If I'm understanding this is a 12 week program to drop 35 lb in 12 weeks to hit a national show date? That's a pile of weight to lose & dial in on. I don't know if you're on anything now, but if you're starting from clean, I'd expect you to be gaining more mass and water weight on top of where you are, and then have to drop that additional?

[apc001]

I'd say cardio is falling short. I will start this in july and I should be around 175 by then so 25lbs in 12 wks would be right.

[sassy69]

I guess I've given my thoughts on it - it is your decision. Is possible to look for a happier medium than as extreme as your original post? At least I'd be looking to go w/ dryer compounds. I'd drop the anavar to <= 20 mg - it just seems there's no additional value for the sides, esp in the stack of other stuff.

The GH I'd go 3iu as an idea, but you can play w/ higher and see how you respond. Its also another consideration for water retention.

[tammyp]

sounds to me like you need to diet longer so you dont have to be too extreame. i usually only have about 15 to lose and still do a 16 wk cut. i would say your loss of muscle is related to diet and cardio than gear choices.

[s2h]

sounds to me like you need to diet longer so you dont have to be too extreame. i usually only have about 15 to lose and still do a 16 wk cut. i would say your loss of muscle is related to diet and cardio than gear choices.ya w/ that much gear there's no way you should be losing muscle.......got to be diet/cardio related....most guys in middle class's could hold on w/ that cycle.....

[Suzanne]

sounds to me like you need to diet longer so you dont have to be too extreame. i usually only have about 15 to lose and still do a 16 wk cut. i would say your loss of muscle is related to diet and cardio than gear choices.

agree i diet 16 weeks and lose very little if any sometimes even add some and am extremely conservative with supplements

[sassy69]

I'd say cardio is falling short. I will start this in july and I should be around 175 by then so 25lbs in 12 wks would be right.


To this end, frankly I'd assume the prep clock starts June 1 and start killing it now so you don't have to kill yourself in July. I can't speak to what sort of sides & rebound you're going to see from that stack. E.g. there are points where too much GH just makes you hold water like a balloon and the other stuff -- shit I just don't know. I think its poor plannign to rely on that much chemistry to make up for what sounds like a massively catabolic cut. Not knowing any details on your diet / cardio plan, I just feel like this is where to look for tweaks first. You can't evern pick and choose the sides you want that come w/ a cycle you think will make up for a shortcoming in another part of the program. You're doubling the amounts you've already got experience with. NPP doesn't clear out of the system for a while so you're stuck w/it. The sides I'd be more concerned w/ are things like blood pressure, liver impact, etc. I think you're goign to see sides showing up in places you won't see blatant problems with until it gets bad. I'm not a doc, but I don't see the point in going ballistic with drugs when it literally sounds like its the diet & cardio that is your problem.

[apc001]

Its alot to think about but will have to see how it goes. 1 think for sure I'll be starting the diet at 16 wks that should help. thanks for all the input.

[LookImDancinCrazy!]

GH - I've heard from a couple different trainers that 3 iu is the sweet spot for women. 4-6 is more on the order of guys and you're going to probably experience some shitty wrist pain and water retention.



Hang on though. We don't even though what she's taking.

Referring to IU alone is useless. If it's something like Jintropin then she's getting about 1.5mg of the peptide six times a week if she's shooting 4 IU's each time. That's an assload. However if it's one of that unlabeled generics that I think most agree do not have 3.7mg per 10IU vial, then she could be getting 1mg or even less each day.

And I'm betting if she's hitting 4 IU's a day it's a generic. That much of the good stuff a day would be stupid expensive.

[sassy69]

Hang on though. We don't even though what she's taking.

Referring to IU alone is useless. If it's something like Jintropin then she's getting about 1.5mg of the peptide six times a week if she's shooting 4 IU's each time. That's an assload. However if it's one of that unlabeled generics that I think most agree do not have 3.7mg per 10IU vial, then she could be getting 1mg or even less each day.

And I'm betting if she's hitting 4 IU's a day it's a generic. That much of the good stuff a day would be stupid expensive.

True enough, tho she's not started yet.