Dave what`s your opinion on carb loading with 1000+ grams of carbs per day???

[brooklyn wolf02]

I listened the radio show with CHAD NICHOLLS and he said about carb loading DENNIS WOLF with 1000+ carbs a day,and I know that you carb up your athlets with very moderate intake like 30 grams per meal 6 times a day (even if it`s 300 grams for bigger guy like TONEY FREEMAN that`s pretty on a low side)!!! WHATS THE DEAL WITH CARBING UP WITH THIS VEEERY HIGH CARB LOADINGS?? I mean if your athlete is shredded to the bone a week out,then last 3 days if you see he is little flat,you carb up him a little more so he can add weight & bodyfat so that his muscles look bigger and fuller?? If you`re satisfied with his condition and you want your athlete just to maintain it,you just carb him with very little carb so he can maintain it?? Can you explain why so many prep gurus incorporate this 1000+ grams of carbs loading couple days before a show,it seems that they are working like every athlete is flat so they have to carb him up with very high carbs and you are the one who carb up with very low carbs!

[Steve56]

like with everything in this sport...........DEPENDS ON THE PERSON!

[brooklyn wolf02]

like with everything in this sport...........depends on the person!

yeah i know that it depends from person to person but-what`s the deal if dave and chad said on the radio show that they would never sacriface fulness for condition-if dave`s athlete is shredded a week before theres no reason to carb him up with 1000+ grams of carbs cause he is gonna put weight...i know that everybody is different but if toney freeman(who is one of the biggest pro`s out there) carbed up on 200 grams of carbs and looked the best in 2008 olympia why would someone else carbed him up with for example 1500 grams of carbs and expect that he came in better shape...

[azn-beef]

i know that everybody is different but if toney freeman(who is one of the biggest pro`s out there) carbed up on 200 grams of carbs and looked the best in 2008 olympia why would someone else carbed him up with for example 1500 grams of carbs and expect that he came in better shape...
i think you answered your question. everybody is different. Flex lewis carbs up with 1200G of carbs and he's <202, and he's always in good conditioning

[hulk7280]

because AFTER a dieting your ass off for 20-16 weeks.. you will BE flat....

you can load on that many carbs if you control water and sodium.. to be as full as possible.

load them early, then clean up any spill over and dry them out..

[brooklyn wolf02]

because after a dieting your ass off for 20-16 weeks.. You will be flat....

You can load on that many carbs if you control water and sodium.. To be as full as possible.

Load them early, then clean up any spill over and dry them out..

you can load on that many carbs only if you`re too flat so you can gain a little and be more full...if you`re flat you can still recuperate...but why then dave carb load on few carbs and others load on 3-4 times more than him??

[powergraham]

After a long time keto dieting, re-introducing that amount of carbs to your system wouldn't work. Your body just wouldn't accept that amount of carbohydrates coming in.

[lomox]

After a long time keto dieting, re-introducing that amount of carbs to your system wouldn't work. Your body just wouldn't accept that amount of carbohydrates coming in.

I can tell you this from experience. I did Keto for 12 weeks then went on a cruise and ate what I wanted (basically carbs). I went from 196lbs to 243lbs in ONE WEEK. After another week of dropping water my net gain was just 4lbs. But it was not pretty! I could barely lift my legs they were so heavy. I got into the specifics in the official Keto thread awhile back.

[brooklyn wolf02]

i can tell you this from experience. I did keto for 12 weeks then went on a cruise and ate what i wanted (basically carbs). I went from 196lbs to 243lbs in one week. After another week of dropping water my net gain was just 4lbs. But it was not pretty! I could barely lift my legs they were so heavy. I got into the specifics in the official keto thread awhile back.

i didn`t understand well-you went from 196 to 243 after one week of eating tons of carbs and then the other week you dropped the water and the only gain was 4 pounds and you was 200 pounds if am correct?? Basicly you gained 40 pounds of water from carbs

[ABOMINATION]

because AFTER a dieting your ass off for 20-16 weeks.. you will BE flat....

you can load on that many carbs if you control water and sodium.. to be as full as possible.

load them early, then clean up any spill over and dry them out..

This is exactly what I do, some call it skip loading.


After a long time keto dieting, re-introducing that amount of carbs to your system wouldn't work. Your body just wouldn't accept that amount of carbohydrates coming in.

true but also not true, If you force enough carbs in a short period of time time say 2 days of carbing to death your body will assimilate the carb and cause it to be stored in your muscle as glycogen.


I can tell you this from experience. I did Keto for 12 weeks then went on a cruise and ate what I wanted (basically carbs). I went from 196lbs to 243lbs in ONE WEEK. After another week of dropping water my net gain was just 4lbs. But it was not pretty! I could barely lift my legs they were so heavy. I got into the specifics in the official Keto thread awhile back.

It's water retention from your body going into overdrive from not being on carbs for so long. My body does the same thing if I'm not careful when reintroduce carbs back into my body. It's actually painful if you don't slowly introduce carbs back in.

[ABOMINATION]

This is what I'm doing, I started taken pictures so everyone can see day to day what happens to my body.

MON: 200 grams every 2 hrs, 1,600/day...minimal fat/protein
TUES: same as Mon
WED: Start the drying out process by eating back to the way I was before carbing up
THUR: same as wed
FRI: same as wed but stop intake of water after 6pm
Sat: no water intake and eat dry carbs

will post pictures after I'm done

[lomox]

i didn`t understand well-you went from 196 to 243 after one week of eating tons of carbs and then the other week you dropped the water and the only gain was 4 pounds and you was 200 pounds if am correct?? Basicly you gained 40 pounds of water from carbs

Correct sir. 40lbs of water. My ankles were non-existent. My HR was at least 150 laying on the bed. If I wasn't so excited to eat again I would have been terrified. I don't recommend anyone try this. This is going from Keto with all carb refeed days where I would gain 8lbs and lose 10lbs the next week... to the goddamn chocolate buffet! Never again.

[Steve56]

yeah i know that it depends from person to person but-what`s the deal if dave and chad said on the radio show that they would never sacriface fulness for condition-if dave`s athlete is shredded a week before theres no reason to carb him up with 1000+ grams of carbs cause he is gonna put weight...i know that everybody is different but if toney freeman(who is one of the biggest pro`s out there) carbed up on 200 grams of carbs and looked the best in 2008 olympia why would someone else carbed him up with for example 1500 grams of carbs and expect that he came in better shape...


Toney is huge..but big or small..he's carb sensitive that why!

[Steve56]

because AFTER a dieting your ass off for 20-16 weeks.. you will BE flat....

you can load on that many carbs if you control water and sodium.. to be as full as possible.

load them early, then clean up any spill over and dry them out..


great post

[Suzanne]

I weigh in at 123-125 and carb up on over 300-400g/day tues and wed then pull then back a bit thurs and fri

Just depends on your body type and diet prior to show. I have carbs in entire time

[Chris Pearce]

From my experience, I've had a REALLY tough time carb loading. I don't know if I'm pretty carb tolerant or what (probably... accompanied by my hard-gainer featured WICKEDLY fast metabolism).

For my first show I did my own dieting but adhered to Dave's 30g of carbs a meal on Thursday, 35g a meal on Friday and I was FLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAT.

My next show I had a trainer from my gym helping me. Because I had problems loading before, we started carb loading on Tuesday and we'd clean up later if need be. We also played with my water and sodium accordingly.
Our plan was to carb up early, then back off later. But we ended up pushing carbs all the way through.... This coincides with what Hulk said:


Originally Posted by hulk7280 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=1031514#post1031514)
because AFTER a dieting your ass off for 20-16 weeks.. you will BE flat....

you can load on that many carbs if you control water and sodium.. to be as full as possible.

load them early, then clean up any spill over and dry them out..
Anyway, to make a long story short... I started loading Tuesday night with 60g at two meals (total of 120g) before bed. Wed. I loaded 550g of carbs... Still flat, Thursday... 550g more... still flat...

We got to the point where I was taking in waxxy maize... Luckily that did the trick.
But like others have said, people respond differently.

[Steve56]

It all depends on if someone is already in shape before the process even starts...if a guy or girl still has bf...non of this shit will do a thing to make them look any better..it might even make them look worse

[hulk7280]

you can load on that many carbs only if you`re too flat so you can gain a little and be more full...if you`re flat you can still recuperate...but why then dave carb load on few carbs and others load on 3-4 times more than him??

Dave has a diffrent type of approach to the last week.. he loads carbs and FAT! you cant load 1000+ carbs and FAT! There are more then one way to skin a cat and Dave his approach and proves its effective. IMO, I like to include carbs in the entire diet, I beleive it produces a fuller type physique, I think no carb for too long and you start to look stringy.


From my experience, I've had a REALLY tough time carb loading. I don't know if I'm pretty carb tolerant or what (probably... accompanied by my hard-gainer featured WICKEDLY fast metabolism).

For my first show I did my own dieting but adhered to Dave's 30g of carbs a meal on Thursday, 35g a meal on Friday and I was FLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAT.

My next show I had a trainer from my gym helping me. Because I had problems loading before, we started carb loading on Tuesday and we'd clean up later if need be. We also played with my water and sodium accordingly.
Our plan was to carb up early, then back off later. But we ended up pushing carbs all the way through.... This coincides with what Hulk said:

Anyway, to make a long story short... I started loading Tuesday night with 60g at two meals (total of 120g) before bed. Wed. I loaded 550g of carbs... Still flat, Thursday... 550g more... still flat...

We got to the point where I was taking in waxxy maize... Luckily that did the trick.
But like others have said, people respond differently.

Every situation is diffrent.. if you have a wicked fast metabolism and your in great shape you can load on much more then 550 grams.. and then could have dried out on friday... I just like to make sure someone is full first then dry out.. because to do the reverse is damn near impossible.


It all depends on if someone is already in shape before the process even starts...if a guy or girl still has bf...non of this shit will do a thing to make them look any better..it might even make them look worse

Exactly.. heavly carb loading someone who is 8% bodyfat isnt gonna work.. they are just gonna get soft..

Someone who has dieted there ass off and is 4% or below bodyfat can handle much more carbs and is much more insulin sensative.

[powergraham]

true but also not true, If you force enough carbs in a short period of time time say 2 days of carbing to death your body will assimilate the carb and cause it to be stored in your muscle as glycogen.





I came off keto a couple of weeks back, and had a day back on carbs, had oats for breakfast, two servings of rice, and that was it. The next day I couldn't get off the toilet. I could force all the carbs in I wanted, but I wouldn't want to take an unscheduled toilet break on the stage either.

I think it'll be different for some people over others, and there are different ways to do it too. Each to their own.

[Steve56]

This is what I'm doing, I started taken pictures so everyone can see day to day what happens to my body.

MON: 200 grams every 2 hrs, 1,600/day...minimal fat/protein
TUES: same as Mon
WED: Start the drying out process by eating back to the way I was before carbing up
THUR: same as wed
FRI: same as wed but stop intake of water after 6pm
Sat: no water intake and eat dry carbs

will post pictures after I'm done

I would play tuesday by ear...by that i mean go by how you look...if ur still flat keep eating..but if ur already starting to spill scale the carbs back

[FIREBLAST]

Worked for Kamali during his entire precontest diet

[BIG DUB]

On one of the off topic shows when Milos was on he said he used a similar amount with Dennis when he worked with him and even that was'nt enough. I'm sure you have to have the fat LOW when using that amount of carbs because of the insulin involved during the carb up.

[LayItDown]

like i think someone mentioned earlier, depends on how "depleted" a person is. meaning how long were they low carbs. also how fast is someone's metabolism. if someone has crazy fast metabolism like people say Wolf has, it makes sense. Either way it depends on the person. no two people prep the same. heck even the same people dont prep the same each year!

[powergraham]

On one of the off topic shows when Milos was on he said he used a similar amount with Dennis when he worked with him and even that was'nt enough. I'm sure you have to have the fat LOW when using that amount of carbs because of the insulin involved during the carb up.

The macro's during carb loading vary wildly. You get some people who keep protein in (Our local show the guys were carbing up on protein bars and cookies which I didn't really agree with), you get others who keep protein out, people who like to include fats as that supposedly increases cell volume too.....

Personally, I'd want to be taking in just carbs, little bit of fats, and don't worry about too much protein. You want to be keeping the glycemic load high so that glycogen is getting into and filling your muscles up, but, it will vary from person to person.

[b-boy]

I would play tuesday by ear...by that i mean go by how you look...if ur still flat keep eating..but if ur already starting to spill scale the carbs back LOL thats the idea bro, you want to load, spill, then clean up the mess. I have done it for the last 2 weeks and i load on about 2500-3000 carbs on saturday, spill and look like shit sunday and about 9 lbs heavier, monday morning back to baseline weight and cartoon character looking! same weight i was depleted but full as a house and dry. :yep: works great! skip hill is a genius ;)

[powergraham]

LOL thats the idea bro, you want to load, spill, then clean up the mess. I have done it for the last 2 weeks and i load on about 2500-3000 carbs on saturday, spill and look like shit sunday and about 9 lbs heavier, monday morning back to baseline weight and cartoon character looking! same weight i was depleted but full as a house and dry. :yep: works great! skip hill is a genius ;)

I'm gona have to write that down, that is easily the best way I've heard of carb loading.

My opinion on it has always been to urr on the side of caution, rather than take the chance of spilling over and coming in looking shit, but that method deffinitely gives you a bit more choice in the matter. What's it like trying to keep that fullness and dry out ?

[Ross Erstling]

"Carbing up" is total bullshit dogma. Don't drop your carbs, period. You should always have full glycogen stores, to think this will somehow impede optimal fat-loss is insane and foolish.

[BuffGuy]

"Carbing up" is total bullshit dogma. Don't drop your carbs, period. You should always have full glycogen stores, to think this will somehow impede optimal fat-loss is insane and foolish.

having too much glycogen can lead to fat storage.

[powergraham]

"Carbing up" is total bullshit dogma. Don't drop your carbs, period. You should always have full glycogen stores, to think this will somehow impede optimal fat-loss is insane and foolish.

Do you understand or even know the theory behind carb depletion and carb loading ?

The very point of it is that you probably don't have maximal glycogen storage, and the depletion and loading stage will enhance that.

[muscles_1976]

LOL thats the idea bro, you want to load, spill, then clean up the mess.;)


what does cleaning up the mess entail? just going back to normal eating on sunday?

[b-boy]

what does cleaning up the mess entail? just going back to normal eating on sunday? yes going back to your normal diet and normal fluid intake, its hard to drink as much fluids on the carb day. I actually go zero carb all week (did not do this the whole diet).... then mega load on saturday, spill on sunday, start the "clean up process" sunday and look freaky monday and tuesday. i usually start getting depleted again wed. now understand that i would be able to hold the carb up better before a show cause my activity level will be very low as in no training or cardio the last couple of days, push the water hard drop it friday night and be on point saturday, i believe that is what abomination is doing?

[Kyle Witherspoon]

For me i never carb depleted but i did up gradually. I did 600 carbs Wednesday 800 on Thursday and 1000 carbs Friday. I didnt spill over but like everyone say you have to no your body.

[hulk7280]

For me i never carb depleted but i did up gradually. I did 600 carbs Wednesday 800 on Thursday and 1000 carbs Friday. I didnt spill over but like everyone say you have to no your body.

IMO, you should have done that reverse.. why carb hard on friday and RISK the chance of spilling over.. if you wake up watery on saturday morning ur kinda fucked..lol

Besides your body is way more insulin sensitive in the beginning of your carb loading phase, so its best to take advantage of that by carbing hard early then winding it down later in the week.

[Timbo89]

I thought this is why he had a Q&A

[Kyle Witherspoon]

IMO, you should have done that reverse.. why carb hard on friday and RISK the chance of spilling over.. if you wake up watery on saturday morning ur kinda fucked..lol

Besides your body is way more insulin sensitive in the beginning of your carb loading phase, so its best to take advantage of that by carbing hard early then winding it down later in the week.

I know how my body works. My whole diet i never went below 450 carbs during the 12 weeks of diet. Im sure most people cant do what i did thats for sure. Here is a pic the morning of the show.

[hulk7280]

I know how my body works. My whole diet i never went below 450 carbs during the 12 weeks of diet. Im sure most people cant do what i did thats for sure. Here is a pic the morning of the show.

Great bro science buddy!!!!

I just gave you a well put together post of WHY you should do it the other way.. and all you can come up with is "i know how my body works"

If you cant give a better reason WHY! then maybe you shouldnt be doing it!

[doubleogordo]

one should get an avatar if one wants a response

[hulk7280]

Juding by your pic, you have good size, Great shape and structure, but you can be a lot HARDER and DRIER!

[hulk7280]

one should get an avatar if one wants a response

just 4 u buddy!

[Kyle Witherspoon]

Great bro science buddy!!!!

I just gave you a well put together post of WHY you should do it the other way.. and all you can come up with is "i know how my body works"

If you cant give a better reason WHY! then maybe you shouldnt be doing it!

LMAO you have to be joking. Ok well it was good enough to win the Light Heavy weight class at the Los Angeles championship last year. One of the biggest shows in California

And if it was science then everyone would look great the day of the show and everyone would carb up the same.

thanks for the input

[Die4Mass]

Great bro science buddy!!!!

I just gave you a well put together post of WHY you should do it the other way.. and all you can come up with is "i know how my body works"

If you cant give a better reason WHY! then maybe you shouldnt be doing it!

does it really matter if he can explain why it works or how it works if he achieved that kind of look the day of the show??? all that matters is he got the results he wanted and looked great, if it aint broke dont fix it.

[AWN2004]

Great bro science buddy!!!!

I just gave you a well put together post of WHY you should do it the other way.. and all you can come up with is "i know how my body works"

If you cant give a better reason WHY! then maybe you shouldnt be doing it!

Everyone is different. It obviously worked for Kyle. Speaking from someone who has seen the guy in person, he isn't doing too shabby. I think Kyle also knows he has yet to really hit his mark which is why he has one of the best in the business in his corner. I wouldn't be surprised to see some big things from Kyle in the future.

[hulk7280]

LMAO you have to be joking. Ok well it was good enough to win the Light Heavy weight class at the Los Angeles championship last year. One of the biggest shows in California

And if it was science then everyone would look great the day of the show and everyone would carb up the same.

thanks for the input

look @ your legs, they can be a lot harder if we cant agree on that then oh well, if your going to compete in BB you should be able to handle some criticism or else you will never improve.

And the way your body work is most definetly science!!! the way your body responds to insulin, and absorbs nutrients.. its all science,

you should be able to back up what you do with LOGiC.. and if you cant then maybe you should rethink WHY your doing it.. dont just follow shit blindly.. you will never learn.

The reason EVERYONE doesnt look great, because everyone is not Educated on how to diet, and peek properly, so im not really sure what your point is there.


does it really matter if he can explain why it works or how it works if he achieved that kind of look the day of the show??? all that matters is he got the results he wanted and looked great, if it aint broke dont fix it.

yeah it does matter.. a lot of these guys look good despite of what they do, not because of what they do..

if you cant get a logical reason why your doing what your doing or how it works then you shouldnt be doing it!

knowledge is power buddy!!!

[hulk7280]

Everyone is different. It obviously worked for Kyle. Speaking from someone who has seen the guy in person, he isn't doing too shabby. I think Kyle also knows he has yet to really hit his mark which is why he has one of the best in the business in his corner. I wouldn't be surprised to see some big things from Kyle in the future.

you just made my point buddy!!!

it obviously didn't work that great for him if he didn't hit his mark!!!

[Kyle Witherspoon]

you just made my point buddy!!!

it obviously didn't work that great for him if he didn't hit his mark!!!

It was good enough to win the light heavy weight class that day. Thats all that matters. I can take all the criticism people have to give me. Thanks and im always improving. Arnt we all

[Ross Erstling]

I know how my body works. My whole diet i never went below 450 carbs during the 12 weeks of diet. Im sure most people cant do what i did thats for sure. Here is a pic the morning of the show.
Sounds awesome, what was the basic breakdown of your diet?

[Kyle Witherspoon]

Sounds awesome, what was the basic breakdown of your diet?

12 weeks out was 4 red meat meals a day with one fish all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

10 weeks out was 3 red meat meals a day 2 fish 1 chicken all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

6 weeks out 2 red meat meals 3-4 fish meals 8-10oz
all carbs from white rice and oatmeal

4 week till show
5 fish meal 1 red meat meal
all carbs were whit rice and oatmeal

Daily count in cal range 4000-4500
protein 350-425
carbs 430-550

I log every meal and every days food totals starting at 12 weeks out for all show so i can go back to see what was working and not.

[huge285]

I think eating 1000g carbs per day is insanity. I truly believe that DENNIS WOLF's problem is that he's not glycogen depleted (like he thinks).........he's FAT DEPLETED. Remember, the muscle cells can store essential fatty acids and this storehouse of fats make the muscles "fuller" looking. That's why you can eat a lot of fatty, junk, food following a show and all of a sudden you look "round" and full.........it's not the sugary carbs; it's the fats. That's why my guys "fill up" on fats and MODERATE carbs prior to a show..........you don't need as many carbs as you think if you're consuming enough fats with them...... Dennis should give me a call!

[inkedleo88]

I think eating 1000g carbs per day is insanity. I truly believe that DENNIS WOLF's problem is that he's not glycogen depleted (like he thinks).........he's FAT DEPLETED. Remember, the muscle cells can store essential fatty acids and this storehouse of fats make the muscles "fuller" looking. That's why you can eat a lot of fatty, junk, food following a show and all of a sudden you look "round" and full.........it's not the sugary carbs; it's the fats. That's why my guys "fill up" on fats and MODERATE carbs prior to a show..........you don't need as many carbs as you think if you're consuming enough fats with them...... Dennis should give me a call!

It's nice to hear some logical answers once in a while. Thanks for always being straight with your replies and not just spreading opinions and judgments:yep:

[Die4Mass]

12 weeks out was 4 red meat meals a day with one fish all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

10 weeks out was 3 red meat meals a day 2 fish 1 chicken all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

6 weeks out 2 red meat meals 3-4 fish meals 8-10oz
all carbs from white rice and oatmeal

4 week till show
5 fish meal 1 red meat meal
all carbs were whit rice and oatmeal

Daily count in cal range 4000-4500
protein 350-425
carbs 430-550

I log every meal and every days food totals starting at 12 weeks out for all show so i can go back to see what was working and not.

all i can say is that what your doing is obviously bringing good results, and no two people are alike or respond to food the same way so props to you for finding a formula that is working for you. Im hoping to use this year as a learning experience and find one that works for me.

[brooklyn wolf02]

i think eating 1000g carbs per day is insanity. I truly believe that dennis wolf's problem is that he's not glycogen depleted (like he thinks).........he's fat depleted. Remember, the muscle cells can store essential fatty acids and this storehouse of fats make the muscles "fuller" looking. That's why you can eat a lot of fatty, junk, food following a show and all of a sudden you look "round" and full.........it's not the sugary carbs; it's the fats. That's why my guys "fill up" on fats and moderate carbs prior to a show..........you don't need as many carbs as you think if you're consuming enough fats with them...... Dennis should give me a call!

can you imagine that you work with dennis,bring him up to his all time best condition+fulness and he make top 3 in the olympia...you would be back on the top of the game!!!

[Lann1011]

"Carbing up" is total bullshit dogma. Don't drop your carbs, period. You should always have full glycogen stores, to think this will somehow impede optimal fat-loss is insane and foolish.


And this comes from your many years of contest prep... OH that is right.. YOU DON'T compete....

[DAVIDHARDY]

I'm def going to gie a fat load a shot next time I'm in shape and have some time. Last time I did a shit load on Wednesday and cleaned it up and looked great come show time. I looked like complete dogshit on Thursday, but had the water and sodium high enough to clean it up, luckily. By Friday afternoon, I knew everything was going to fall into place nicely for me, but those were the longest and most stressful 2 days of my prep after that big spill from the shitload.

[b-boy]

I'm def going to gie a fat load a shot next time I'm in shape and have some time. Last time I did a shit load on Wednesday and cleaned it up and looked great come show time. I looked like complete dogshit on Thursday, but had the water and sodium high enough to clean it up, luckily. By Friday afternoon, I knew everything was going to fall into place nicely for me, but those were the longest and most stressful 2 days of my prep after that big spill from the shitload. your mistake and stress came from you not trying this several times before your show, you should always make several practice runs to see how your body responds before hand, that way you have time to make any adjustments in food quantity or selection or timing BEFORE your show, your last week should have been STRESS FREE cause you already knew how your body was going to react. dont wait till the last week to try something your not sure about :no:

[Steve56]

LOL thats the idea bro, you want to load, spill, then clean up the mess. I have done it for the last 2 weeks and i load on about 2500-3000 carbs on saturday, spill and look like shit sunday and about 9 lbs heavier, monday morning back to baseline weight and cartoon character looking! same weight i was depleted but full as a house and dry. :yep: works great! skip hill is a genius ;)

you must have misunderstood what i said...i meant once you spill you start to clean up

[Kyle Witherspoon]

Juding by your pic, you have good size, Great shape and structure, but you can be a lot HARDER and DRIER!

I totally agree with you there. That is my main goal this year.

[joe293]

I have done it for the last 2 weeks and i load on about 2500-3000 carbs on saturday

b-boy,

I'm guessing this is 2500-3000 calories from complex carbs which would be about 600-700 grams of carbs?

[Triple-H_2005]

And this comes from your many years of contest prep... OH that is right.. YOU DON'T compete....

But he DOES have an "In The Iron Asylum" coming out this month!;)

[Ross Erstling]

And this comes from your many years of contest prep... OH that is right.. YOU DON'T compete....

The problem is, guys are far too carb-depleted prior to carbing up; THIS is the paramount issue.

[hulk7280]

b-boy,

I'm guessing this is 2500-3000 calories from complex carbs which would be about 600-700 grams of carbs?

3000 grams of carbs is pretty ridiclous..

thats like 10 meals of 300 carbs!

Can you imagine going to the toilet the next day! :flowers:

[Ross Erstling]

12 weeks out was 4 red meat meals a day with one fish all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

10 weeks out was 3 red meat meals a day 2 fish 1 chicken all 8-10 oz
all carbs were from white rice and oatmeal

6 weeks out 2 red meat meals 3-4 fish meals 8-10oz
all carbs from white rice and oatmeal

4 week till show
5 fish meal 1 red meat meal
all carbs were whit rice and oatmeal

Daily count in cal range 4000-4500
protein 350-425
carbs 430-550

I log every meal and every days food totals starting at 12 weeks out for all show so i can go back to see what was working and not.

VERY solid diet! I agree with your protocol 100%!

[hulk7280]

"Carbing up" is total bullshit dogma. Don't drop your carbs, period. You should always have full glycogen stores, to think this will somehow impede optimal fat-loss is insane and foolish.


The problem is, guys are far too carb-depleted prior to carbing up; THIS is the paramount issue.

you seem like your back tracking in your statements, the first one you say you should never be depleted.. hence no reason for carb up..

next your saying guys deplete too much and dont carb up often enough.. which is a contradiction to what you first said..

so which is it?:confused:

[Ross Erstling]

you seem like your back tracking in your statements, the first one you say you should never be depleted.. hence no reason for carb up..

next your saying guys deplete too much and dont carb up often enough.. which is a contradiction to what you first said..

so which is it?:confused:

I NEVER eliminate or drastically reduce carbs from my diet--PERIOD. This is is the issue, because if you are consuming sufficient carbs, you will not require some excessive "carb-up". You will already be FULL.

Good video: http://www.muscletech.com/resources/videos/60seconds/60som_39_jay_cutler_carbs.shtml

[hulk7280]

I NEVER eliminate or drastically reduce carbs from my diet--PERIOD. This is is the issue, because if you are consuming sufficient carbs, you will not require some excessive "carb-up". You will already be FULL.

Good video: http://www.muscletech.com/resources/videos/60seconds/60som_39_jay_cutler_carbs.shtml

have you ever been in contest shape?

[Steve56]

have you ever been in contest shape?

when has he not been? lol

[Ross Erstling]

have you ever been in contest shape?

I stay between 5%-9% bodyfat YEAR-ROUND.

[hulk7280]

I stay between 5%-9% bodyfat YEAR-ROUND.

no offense but numbers dont mean much to me.. i was clipped at 1.5% before my first show.. and I know my bodyfat wasnt that low..

people say they are 5% bodyfat, but there ass/lower back are smoother then a babys butt..

so show some pics from the front and back @ 5% bodyfat..

[Ross Erstling]

no offense but numbers dont mean much to me.. i was clipped at 1.5% before my first show.. and I know my bodyfat wasnt that low..

people say they are 5% bodyfat, but there ass/lower back are smoother then a babys butt..

so show some pics from the front and back @ 5% bodyfat..

Here is a pic from over a month ago:

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/picture.php?albumid=454&pictureid=4658

[hulk7280]

Here is a pic from over a month ago:

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/picture.php?albumid=454&pictureid=4658

that doesnt tell me much.. where are your legs? your back? your hams?

Shit I know guys who are 12-10% bodyfat who have abs like yours because they hold all there fat in there legs.

[Ross Erstling]

that doesnt tell me much.. where are your legs? your back? your hams?

Shit I know guys who are 12-10% bodyfat who have abs like yours because they hold all there fat in there legs.

Bro, I'm not a competitive bodybuilder, so I don't exactly have full body shots of mandatory poses. I do however, look just as good as competitive bodybuilders, and will most likely be making my debut soon.

I'll be doing an Iron Asylum video next month and you'll be able to see my complete physique.

[metalmike]

I listened the radio show with CHAD NICHOLLS and he said about carb loading DENNIS WOLF with 1000+ carbs a day,and I know that you carb up your athlets with very moderate intake like 30 grams per meal 6 times a day (even if it`s 300 grams for bigger guy like TONEY FREEMAN that`s pretty on a low side)!!! WHATS THE DEAL WITH CARBING UP WITH THIS VEEERY HIGH CARB LOADINGS?? I mean if your athlete is shredded to the bone a week out,then last 3 days if you see he is little flat,you carb up him a little more so he can add weight & bodyfat so that his muscles look bigger and fuller?? If you`re satisfied with his condition and you want your athlete just to maintain it,you just carb him with very little carb so he can maintain it?? Can you explain why so many prep gurus incorporate this 1000+ grams of carbs loading couple days before a show,it seems that they are working like every athlete is flat so they have to carb him up with very high carbs and you are the one who carb up with very low carbs!

humalog help a lot ;-)

[hulk7280]

Bro, I'm not a competitive bodybuilder, so I don't exactly have full body shots of mandatory poses. I do however, look just as good as competitive bodybuilders, and will most likely be making my debut soon.

I'll be doing an Iron Asylum video next month and you'll be able to see my complete physique.

So then you dont understand why bodybuilders have to go to be in a depleted state to get lean enough for a show.

you shouldnt comment on a thread you know nothing about, since you have no experience with it..

[Ross Erstling]

So then you dont understand why bodybuilders have to go to be in a depleted state to get lean enough for a show.

you shouldnt comment on a thread you know nothing about, since you have no experience with it..

Being in a DEPLETED state does not look good, the guys of the 80's like ZANE, NUBRET, and ARNIE never depleted themselves of water and carbs like the bodybuilders of today do. It's a HUGE mistake...

I am LEANER and HARDER than most competitive bodybuilders that I know. In fact, all of them ask me if I compete! You don't NEED to be depleted of water and carbs, that's just compensation for not being LEAN ENOUGH. If you are 3% bodyfat, you dont need to be completely dehydrated.

[b-boy]

b-boy,

I'm guessing this is 2500-3000 calories from complex carbs which would be about 600-700 grams of carbs?
HA HA HA LOL no bro, its 2500-3000 grams of carbs for the day! and its not just complex carbs.

saturday's breakfast was
7 blueberry pancakes with syrup (a lot of syrup)
3 cups of cocoa puffs cereal in chocolate protein powder and water mixture (i stay away from milk).
2 whole wheat bagels drowned in strawberry preserves
package of chocolate rice cakes (about 6 large round rice cakes)

this was just breakfast! ;)

and about stomach discomfort, yes i am gassy the following day, lethargic, and not much of an appetite, but monday im back to normal and starving, back to baseline weight, hard, dry, and full as hell.

[hulk7280]

Being in a DEPLETED state does not look good, the guys of the 80's like ZANE, NUBRET, and ARNIE never depleted themselves of water and carbs like the bodybuilders of today do. It's a HUGE mistake...

I am LEANER and HARDER than most competitive bodybuilders that I know. In fact, all of them ask me if I compete! You don't NEED to be depleted of water and carbs, that's just compensation for not being LEAN ENOUGH. If you are 3% bodyfat, you dont need to be completely dehydrated.

I agree with you on the water thing.. its one of the most annoying things to hear from guys or girls.. saying oh "im just holding some water"

im like right, you just arent lean enough buddy!!!

prolly one of the most cliche lines in BB..LOL

but anyway we are talking about two diffrent things, we are talking about peaking for a show and your talking about an everyday lifestyle

[hulk7280]

HA HA HA LOL no bro, its 2500-3000 grams of carbs for the day! and its not just complex carbs.

saturday's breakfast was
7 blueberry pancakes with syrup (a lot of syrup)
3 cups of cocoa puffs cereal in chocolate protein powder and water mixture (i stay away from milk).
2 whole wheat bagels drowned in strawberry preserves
package of chocolate rice cakes (about 6 large round rice cakes)

this was just breakfast! ;)

and about stomach discomfort, yes i am gassy the following day, lethargic, and not much of an appetite, but monday im back to normal and starving, back to baseline weight, hard, dry, and full as hell.

I bet you are.. LMAO

im suprised you return baseline so fast, your body must shed water very fast.

[Ross Erstling]

I agree with you on the water thing.. its one of the most annoying things to hear from guys or girls.. saying oh "im just holding some water"

im like right, you just arent lean enough buddy!!!

prolly one of the most cliche lines in BB..LOL

but anyway we are talking about two diffrent things, we are talking about peaking for a show and your talking about an everyday lifestyle

While I agree that you can make some slight macro-nutrient adjustments in order to "PEAK", it shouldn't be anything drastic, and you should already be consuming sufficient carbs. Essentially, you should be in PEAK condition at all times...

[b-boy]

3000 grams of carbs is pretty ridiclous..

thats like 10 meals of 300 carbs!

Can you imagine going to the toilet the next day! :flowers: well eating typical brainwash bodybuilding food like rice, oats, yams, and such sure thats a lot of carbs and would kill my stomach, BUT get lean, workout hard all week and doing cardio sessions depleting your body then let me throw a big stack of pancakes in front of you dripping with syrup and you tell me how easy would it be to throw down a boatload of carbs :yep: ha ha ha YUMMY! :p

kyles diet is great and works great i ate similar when i worked with G. Farah but it bores the living fuck out of me, there are several ways to skin a cat and quite frankly some are a lot funner and more enjoyable that others. lets see rice or pancakes? I'll take all the Pancakes you can eat for 1000 ALEX! :)

[hulk7280]

While I agree that you can make some slight macro-nutrient adjustments in order to "PEAK", it shouldn't be anything drastic, and you should already be consuming sufficient carbs. Essentially, you should be in PEAK condition at all times...

i guess we agree to disagree..

ive personally depleted and carb upped and got much Fuller, harder and drier from it.

look at the difference.. the pic on the left is one week out. the pic on the right is at the show.. look at how much fuller and harder I am after a carb up.

like I said you have no experience with this because you have never competed...

[hulk7280]

well eating typical brainwash bodybuilding food like rice, oats, yams, and such sure thats a lot of carbs and would kill my stomach, BUT get lean, workout hard all week and doing cardio sessions depleting your body then let me throw a big stack of pancakes in front of you dripping with syrup and you tell me how easy would it be to throw down a boatload of carbs :yep: ha ha ha YUMMY! :p

kyles diet is great and works great i ate similar when i worked with G. Farah but it bores the living fuck out of me, there are several ways to skin a cat and quite frankly some are a lot funner and more enjoyable that others. lets see rice or pancakes? I'll take all the Pancakes you can eat for 1000 ALEX! :)

lol.. I did something similiar last year when I competed.. I didnt eat 3000 carbs.. it was more like 700-800,

but it was great the first few meals, but by night time.. I was struggling to get it down!

[b-boy]

Being in a DEPLETED state does not look good, the guys of the 80's like ZANE, NUBRET, and ARNIE never depleted themselves of water and carbs like the bodybuilders of today do. It's a HUGE mistake...

I am LEANER and HARDER than most competitive bodybuilders that I know. In fact, all of them ask me if I compete! You don't NEED to be depleted of water and carbs, that's just compensation for not being LEAN ENOUGH. If you are 3% bodyfat, you dont need to be completely dehydrated. LOL what does it matter what you look like during the diet? all that matters is what you look like on show day. depleted isn't that bad of a look.

the full body shot in trunks is from this morning after 5 days of zero carbs and depleted and the pic with the jogging pants is from tuesday morning still partially full from saturdays massive carb load. weight is 1 lb difference

ross im not arguing with you as your methods work just fine bro, they just bore the fuck out of me thats all.

[Ross Erstling]

LOL what does it matter what you look like during the diet? all that matters is what you look like on show day. depleted isn't that bad of a look.

the full body shot in trunks is from this morning after 5 days of zero carbs and depleted and the pic with the jogging pants is from tuesday morning still partially full from saturdays massive carb load. weight is 1 lb difference

ross im not arguing with you as your methods work just fine bro, they just bore the fuck out of me thats all.
You look awesome!

[Leatherhead]

how many weeks out now brad?

[b-boy]

how many weeks out now brad?

2 to jr.'s
8 to USA's

[betito]

When the shirt drops the bullshit stops

[Die4Mass]

When the shirt drops the bullshit stops

edit: when the cloths come off the bullshit stops ;) all this talking about methods is great and all, but if i can beat somebody by doing it my way then guess what? it works. whether or not i can tell you how or why it works is irrelivent.

[maxxmuscle]

I'm gona have to write that down, that is easily the best way I've heard of carb loading.

My opinion on it has always been to urr on the side of caution, rather than take the chance of spilling over and coming in looking shit, but that method deffinitely gives you a bit more choice in the matter. What's it like trying to keep that fullness and dry out ?

Sure we spoke about this in the Gym ? This is the way i do it.....Load heavily for 2 days ( 2 x 1000g ) spill....and leave 1 - 2 days for the water to move.Some guys can move the water in 1 day....usually the most you need is 2....

[maxxmuscle]

For me i never carb depleted but i did up gradually. I did 600 carbs Wednesday 800 on Thursday and 1000 carbs Friday. I didnt spill over but like everyone say you have to no your body.

I do it the other way around...you want to hit the carbs hard from the start...not increase them later.Different methods for different people i guess....

[maxxmuscle]

"What's it like trying to keep that fullness and dry out ?"

Basically dont train,no cardio,and sit on your ass and let the Glycogen sit in the muscle while you move the water.....Water intake should be high during the carb up,and you will continue to piss when you manipulate your water intake....

[This Is War]

Interesting discussion, keep it going!

[Kyle Witherspoon]

kyles diet is great and works great i ate similar when i worked with G. Farah but it bores the living fuck out of me, there are several ways to skin a cat and quite frankly some are a lot funner and more enjoyable that others. lets see rice or pancakes? I'll take all the Pancakes you can eat for 1000 ALEX! :)[/quote]

Maybe i should try that. I love pancakes. That awesome your eating like that maybe im just scared to LOL By the way looking thick bro. Your going to make me look small next to you LOL

[Lenny]

well eating typical brainwash bodybuilding food like rice, oats, yams, and such sure thats a lot of carbs and would kill my stomach, BUT get lean, workout hard all week and doing cardio sessions depleting your body then let me throw a big stack of pancakes in front of you dripping with syrup and you tell me how easy would it be to throw down a boatload of carbs :yep: ha ha ha YUMMY! :p

kyles diet is great and works great i ate similar when i worked with G. Farah but it bores the living fuck out of me, there are several ways to skin a cat and quite frankly some are a lot funner and more enjoyable that others. lets see rice or pancakes? I'll take all the Pancakes you can eat for 1000 ALEX! :)

Amen to that, pancakes or rice? I choose pancakes:):):)

[maxxmuscle]

that doesnt tell me much.. where are your legs? your back? your hams?

Shit I know guys who are 12-10% bodyfat who have abs like yours because they hold all there fat in there legs.

Ross...You look very impressive...but when you compete,you need the details like Xmas tree lower back,split hams etc.Most guys at a BB competition will have abs ( or should have ! ) its the details above that will make you stand out from the crowd.Unless you have a very gifted metabolism,you are going to have to drive the carbs down to get in true contest shape....

[powergraham]

Sure we spoke about this in the Gym ? This is the way i do it.....Load heavily for 2 days ( 2 x 1000g ) spill....and leave 1 - 2 days for the water to move.Some guys can move the water in 1 day....usually the most you need is 2....

We did, but it went over my head a bit lol. Most of the stuff I've read is a 3 day carb up going into your peak for the show, not trying to spill, which is why I got a little confused when you were talking about the lads carbing up 5 days out.

Sometimes I'm a bit numb.

For Ross, it seems the theory behind carb depletion and load up is asinine, which I disagree with. Your body isn't stupid. If it goes without something, it holds on to it when it comes back. Hence why you get good rebounds off a diet, your body goes mental when you come off a keto diet etc.

Hence, depleting your carbs, and robbing your body of glycogen for a short period, will trick your body into holding more glycogen when you carb load. Your body will overcompensate incase of the same scenario.

You can argue that you should be full and big all the time, but the point is that you can look bigger, and fuller.

[maxxmuscle]

Very few are nice and full ALL the way through prep.This is where the head games kick in and you get guys throwing in the towel 4,3,2...even 1 week out.When the carbs come down to very low levels and you are flat,you look/feel small...but the fullness will come back when the carbs are put back.Its tough to get your bodyfat extremely low when you are "Full" all the time.Suck it up,drive the carbs down....and stay covered up and dont be looking at yourself all the time or the head games kick your ass ! I go in the shower with the light off the last few weeks when im flat as a fart and feel "Tiny" ( Joke ! .... but i make sure i stay covered up ! )

[joe d]

like with everything in this sport...........DEPENDS ON THE PERSON!

yep. on my lowest carb day i could never hit a low of even 300g. i was cutting on a steady 600g vs my normal 1200g

[maxxmuscle]

Wish i could diet on 600g Carbs :( You must have the metabolism of a humming bird !

[joe293]

HA HA HA LOL no bro, its 2500-3000 grams of carbs for the day! and its not just complex carbs.

saturday's breakfast was
7 blueberry pancakes with syrup (a lot of syrup)
3 cups of cocoa puffs cereal in chocolate protein powder and water mixture (i stay away from milk).
2 whole wheat bagels drowned in strawberry preserves
package of chocolate rice cakes (about 6 large round rice cakes)

this was just breakfast! ;)

and about stomach discomfort, yes i am gassy the following day, lethargic, and not much of an appetite, but monday im back to normal and starving, back to baseline weight, hard, dry, and full as hell.

Holy Crap !!!!